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  <row Id="11" PostId="2" Score="1" Text="Did Cronus have children other than Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Hades, Hestia, Demeter, and Chiron?" CreationDate="2015-04-28T17:31:19.223" UserId="43" />
  <row Id="19" PostId="3" Score="4" Text="Your mention of Athena's relation to Athens suggests one type of relation, spoken of in the Wikipedia article [Greek city-state patron gods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_city-state_patron_gods), but your mention of Catholic saints suggests another. Athena, for instance, is the goddess of wisdom, courage, and the arts; that seems closer to the second type of relation. It won't be hard to find Norse gods that are &quot;the god of ______.&quot; You probably should focus the question on one or the other, however." CreationDate="2015-04-28T17:55:55.817" UserId="43" />
  <row Id="168" PostId="3" Score="1" Text="[Ullr](http://www.northernpaganism.org/shrines/ullrs-shrine/about.html), Norse god of archery, hunting, and the winter is generally considered to be the Guardian Patron Saint of Skiers.  An [Ullr medallion](http://www.skihall.com/images/source/silver_ullr_medal_retail_front_back.jpg) is worn by many skiers for good luck. Not a city or region, but kind of interesting/" CreationDate="2015-04-29T09:26:53.693" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="5" PostId="7" Score="12" Text="[citation needed] for &quot;Many of the Gods were bisexual&quot;. I did not know this." CreationDate="2015-04-28T16:30:32.847" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="16406" PostId="7" Score="0" Text="Rolled back the edit, because the link answers the question. If you have a link, it should be in an answer or comment, not an edit." CreationDate="2023-06-18T00:08:22.707" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6" PostId="11" Score="4" Text="From what I understand, Titans *are* Gods, but &quot;Titan&quot; refers to the first generation of Gods, the offspring of Uranus and Gaia." CreationDate="2015-04-28T16:32:27.970" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="9" PostId="12" Score="0" Text="I think they were invisible, or when not so, able to change shape which is going to make art hard to find." CreationDate="2015-04-28T17:27:07.863" UserId="31" />
  <row Id="3741" PostId="15" Score="0" Text="Consider also the very wide-spread cults of a great mother goddess: those seem to be common to most of mankind, crossing the boundaries of a single linguistic family. There is also the cult of the father god, which is perhaps slightly less common, but still very common." CreationDate="2015-09-26T14:40:44.983" UserId="784" />
  <row Id="3743" PostId="15" Score="0" Text="@Cerberus: The PIE culture and its derivatives were highly patriarchal. The chief god has been reconstructed as Dyeus Pater (forgive my lack of IPA). Female gods seemed to play a minor role in original PIE religion. Perhaps you thinking of Gimbutas' theory of pre-IE European culture." CreationDate="2015-09-28T21:03:34.433" UserId="788" />
  <row Id="3744" PostId="15" Score="0" Text="@Noldorin Long time no see! That indeed the kind of father-god I had in mind; it is more widespread than Proto-Indo-European, e.g. in Afro-Asiatic cultures. Indeed, ultimate the origin of the Proto-Indo-European fater-god might lie in the Afro-Asiatic cult? The cult of a mother goddess may have been very widely spread. Evidence exists from all over the world; cf. also Chinese *yin*. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_goddess" CreationDate="2015-09-28T22:46:08.740" UserId="784" />
  <row Id="3746" PostId="15" Score="1" Text="@Cerberus: Indeed! Good to see you around still. The origin of PIE language and culture seems to lie so far back in history that I'm not sure we can say, but I wouldn't rule it out. Both Indo-European and Afro-Asiatic cultures seem to have their genesis in pre-history. I think it's more likely that both IE and AA adopted their father gods from Sumerian culture if anything. By the time the first AA culture first came to dominate any region (Egypt or Assyria), PIE had already significantly dispersed." CreationDate="2015-09-29T22:40:23.980" UserId="788" />
  <row Id="3747" PostId="15" Score="0" Text="And yes, I'm sure you're right about the mother goddess too. The question is though, were these creations independent? I wouldn't be surprised if they were. Father and mother figures would certainly be natural prototypes for gods, due to their huge significance in human culture and development, as far back as one can imagine. I'm inclined to think they appeared in lots of places independently, in fact. :)" CreationDate="2015-09-29T22:42:10.870" UserId="788" />
  <row Id="7695" PostId="15" Score="0" Text="I believe this link will interest you:https://everything2.com/title/Indo-European+Mythology" CreationDate="2017-06-04T01:36:39.810" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="3354" PostId="17" Score="1" Text="What's the source of that quote?" CreationDate="2015-06-18T23:09:31.620" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="7982" PostId="17" Score="1" Text="Evidence for the Kuklopes' and the Hekatoncheires' being termed *Titans?*" CreationDate="2017-08-02T23:17:40.000" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8" PostId="19" Score="2" Text="Could you cite which translation this is from?" CreationDate="2015-04-28T17:25:27.533" UserId="22" />
  <row Id="3339" PostId="19" Score="1" Text="Just a minor note, it's the *Theogony*, not *Theogany*. You're otherwise accurate. Also, the difference between Zeus and Cronus isn't god and Titan, but Olympian and Titan, with both being gods." CreationDate="2015-06-18T07:48:56.163" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3433" PostId="19" Score="0" Text="Zeus at al seem to have their own order name: &quot;Olympans&quot;, no? Leaving aside that Titans lived on Olympus before :)" CreationDate="2015-06-30T06:10:46.870" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="2638" PostId="20" Score="0" Text="See also http://scifi.stackexchange.com/a/73181/4918 &quot;Where did King Arthur get his sword, Excalibur?&quot;" CreationDate="2015-05-06T06:24:26.897" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="7817" PostId="20" Score="0" Text="There is some interesting info on possible etymologies in this book: [Mythological Swords](https://books.google.com/books?id=3twNCgAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA28&amp;lpg=PA28&amp;dq=Excalibur+etymology&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=5Zmxide9kG&amp;sig=NoEe-_ik8fvxxpTpjI_8LS4GlK4&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwiGjKPtsu7UAhVGNz4KHVMjDcc4ChDoAQgzMAM#v=onepage&amp;q=Excalibur%20etymology&amp;f=false)" CreationDate="2017-07-04T00:48:16.163" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="15" PostId="27" Score="0" Text="'b' and 'v' are very similar, but I don't see how to evolve *Ask* into *Adam* or vice versa. The only common part is a vowel which is the most fragile in transformations." CreationDate="2015-04-28T17:46:21.247" UserId="46" />
  <row Id="461" PostId="27" Score="4" Text="Is this about linguistics or whether these myths have a common origin? If it's the latter you should make that more clear and only mention the linguistics in passing." CreationDate="2015-05-02T05:22:04.763" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="5959" PostId="30" Score="2" Text="I would like to see the proof he was zeus' lover. Rather odd to have just one male. He was always portrayed  as Zeus' cupberarer" CreationDate="2016-06-18T22:53:17.833" UserId="2690" />
  <row Id="6018" PostId="30" Score="0" Text="@Fey I don't have proof myself. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Hopefully [this new question](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/1773/what-is-the-earliest-source-to-claim-that-zeus-and-ganymede-were-lovers) will get some love." CreationDate="2016-06-29T18:51:52.127" UserId="43" />
  <row Id="8251" PostId="30" Score="0" Text="@Fey Ray, check out in Homer's, Iliad, Book XX, lines 233-235:  it sums up that the reason Zeus choose Ganymede was because he was the best looking of all mortals, and therefore should be among the immortals." CreationDate="2017-09-05T20:31:19.067" UserId="4140" />
  <row Id="8480" PostId="30" Score="0" Text="It does not claim and possibly they became lovers the same time when homosexualism was popular among greeks." CreationDate="2017-10-15T19:25:10.710" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="16404" PostId="30" Score="0" Text="@FeyRay https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/1773/what-is-the-earliest-source-to-claim-that-zeus-and-ganymede-were-lovers" CreationDate="2023-06-18T00:06:29.613" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="12390" PostId="32" Score="0" Text="The remarks on this page indicating Hathor and Apep are &quot;eclipse gods&quot; of some sort are misleading. Please see my answer below for the more widely accepted interpretations of the topics in question." CreationDate="2020-02-25T00:11:58.463" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="2881" PostId="34" Score="2" Text="I think this question should be moved to Hinduism.SE; it's more likely to get a good answer from people there." CreationDate="2015-05-13T06:05:12.867" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="2906" PostId="34" Score="0" Text="@KeshavSrinivasan You're right that it would probably get better answers there, but I asked the question over here so as to get a bit more diversity of content on this site." CreationDate="2015-05-13T20:47:02.470" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="16" PostId="37" Score="2" Text="I've heard of Theseus' paternity being in question, but the confusion is usually between Aegeus, a King, and Poseidon. I haven't heard of Zeus being his father - could you clarify where that myth is from?" CreationDate="2015-04-28T17:50:05.750" UserId="26" />
  <row Id="20" PostId="37" Score="1" Text="Ah, I see. In Classical mythology, Theseus' divine father is always given as Poseidon. The TV show likely embellished the myth because Zeus is often seen as more important and more likely to be known to a wider audience." CreationDate="2015-04-28T17:56:12.160" UserId="38" />
  <row Id="233" PostId="37" Score="0" Text="Since no source claims Zeus to be Theseus's father? I'm editing the question and made the question more general." CreationDate="2015-04-29T20:15:29.167" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="22" PostId="39" Score="0" Text="I'd really like to see an answer of this. Many documentaries at the time were poorly documented and it's difficult to distinguish right from wrong..." CreationDate="2015-04-28T18:07:22.533" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="23" PostId="39" Score="0" Text="I'd like to write an answer up for this but I'm rather ill right now and I'm afraid I won't do it justice - if it's still unanswered by the time I feel up to it I'll write something up." CreationDate="2015-04-28T18:08:49.840" UserId="38" />
  <row Id="466" PostId="39" Score="1" Text="I heard from a tour guide while visiting some of the ruins that it was merely a cycle to them, like the years. They would have just started another one without a second thought. Well, maybe a party or something, but not because it was the end of the world." CreationDate="2015-05-02T08:30:07.633" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="294" PostId="40" Score="3" Text="Well,  Aegeus sure believed himself the father, as he killed himself falling of Sounion when the captain of the ship with which Theseus returned after killing the Minotaur had forgotten to change the sails to white. ( from black) as agreed, and he thought Theseus was dead. Hence the Aegian sea." CreationDate="2015-04-30T11:20:40.030" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="3631" PostId="41" Score="2" Text="I just read a version that said FORBODING was what was left in the box, and if it had gotten out, there would be no hope left in the world." CreationDate="2015-08-28T14:49:18.687" UserDisplayName="user688" />
  <row Id="3740" PostId="41" Score="4" Text="Friedrich Nietzsche: &quot;Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of men.&quot;" CreationDate="2015-09-24T11:16:44.030" UserDisplayName="user775" />
  <row Id="3750" PostId="41" Score="2" Text="In russian there's a saying &quot;Hope dies last&quot;. Probably it's the reference to the need of human to hope for good even in darkest hour. I love to look for answers in other mythologies and religions so now I'd prefer to work with this &quot;hope dies last&quot; belief. Even in situation when there's no escape people still hope for the best end. That's why Hope was left in the box. It remains with the human." CreationDate="2015-09-29T18:43:12.070" UserId="769" />
  <row Id="1620" PostId="48" Score="2" Text="I didn't down vote nor VTC, but I think this question could have been better is que question provided a reference to that link between Odin-wotan and Santa Claus. It is not obvious to everyone that there is one, and claiming so should be backed up with some references." CreationDate="2015-05-05T13:25:11.033" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="4258" PostId="49" Score="6" Text="Pretty sure Easter is generally believed to take it's name from [Ēostre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%92ostre)." CreationDate="2016-01-25T16:58:26.297" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4408" PostId="49" Score="2" Text="Ishtar/Easter has become something of a legend online these days. You're absolutely right, though, there is no relationship between Ishtar and Easter." CreationDate="2016-02-09T13:18:58.490" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3496" PostId="53" Score="1" Text="Not that I'm suggesting that it has any true scholastic value, but Rick Riordan's Heros of Olympus series actually goes into this subject in depth. Looking at Femtorogon's answer, they actually got a lot right. Just saying." CreationDate="2015-07-16T18:30:37.880" UserId="516" />
  <row Id="3497" PostId="53" Score="0" Text="Even if it is just fantasy fiction" CreationDate="2015-07-16T18:34:42.967" UserId="516" />
  <row Id="71" PostId="54" Score="4" Text="There appears to be reference to a sanctuary of Hestia in Hermione, from Pausanias &quot;Description of Greece&quot; (http://www.theoi.com/Text/Pausanias2C.html , 2.35.1), if that's useful." CreationDate="2015-04-28T20:28:55.577" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="74" PostId="54" Score="2" Text="@femtoRgon Good find. Every hearth was essentialy a sanctuary to Hestia, and there probably were several shrines and offering fire altars dedicated to her all around Greece. But I'm not aware of any actual temples." CreationDate="2015-04-28T20:42:01.160" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="16341" PostId="54" Score="0" Text="Where is or was there a temple to Hades?" CreationDate="2023-04-10T15:08:06.163" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="16342" PostId="54" Score="0" Text="@BrianDonovan I'm only aware of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromanteion_of_Acheron" CreationDate="2023-04-10T18:30:30.097" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="130" PostId="62" Score="0" Text="I checked my sources, and there are no surviving records of eclipses from pre-Roman Egypt. Some ancient Greek authors credit the Egyptians with all sorts of astronomical knowledge, but we have no primary sources or translations." CreationDate="2015-04-29T00:45:24.780" UserId="95" />
  <row Id="3103" PostId="62" Score="4" Text="I would be rather wary of that website. It gives no sources and covers some rather controversial topics, like UFOs and astrology." CreationDate="2015-05-23T17:33:04.863" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="10531" PostId="62" Score="1" Text="You mean [this Hathor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hathor)? No." CreationDate="2018-05-05T12:16:37.700" UserId="241" />
  <row Id="12383" PostId="62" Score="0" Text="I don't believe it's correct to identify Hathor flatly as &quot;the goddess of eclipses&quot; just from one tale which may or may not involve an eclipse. Hathor's associations are positive, protective ones of Ra, among other things." CreationDate="2020-02-24T18:13:40.237" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="1476" PostId="68" Score="4" Text="`&quot;The Greeks and Romans had stories about mermaids and various other half man half fish beings.&quot;` Could you name those stories? It would make this question much more answerable." CreationDate="2015-05-02T18:53:27.773" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2880" PostId="69" Score="1" Text="Is any of that believed to be from Proto-Indo-European mythology?" CreationDate="2015-05-13T04:54:33.437" UserId="248" />
  <row Id="3735" PostId="69" Score="2" Text="No, none of it is." CreationDate="2015-09-23T15:04:34.000" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="48" PostId="70" Score="2" Text="Is there a text anywhere that this can be pulled from? Having evidence is key in answering these types of questions." CreationDate="2015-04-28T19:45:58.920" UserId="65" />
  <row Id="56" PostId="70" Score="1" Text="I've added a source which contains exactly the same as my source which was written in Greek." CreationDate="2015-04-28T19:56:12.517" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="14291" PostId="70" Score="0" Text="Infoplease is not a reputable source." CreationDate="2021-03-08T00:13:21.423" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="60" PostId="71" Score="2" Text="Do you have quotes, or a source, to back this up?" CreationDate="2015-04-28T19:59:05.093" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="62" PostId="71" Score="0" Text="@Christofian I do not have a source this is just what I think is the reason." CreationDate="2015-04-28T20:00:59.700" UserId="65" />
  <row Id="65" PostId="71" Score="3" Text="I'm sorry, but just using your own opinion without any quotes or outside sources is neither good practice nor helpful to anyone else (we can't independently verify your claims)." CreationDate="2015-04-28T20:08:31.633" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="68" PostId="71" Score="1" Text="@Christofian I found some evidence, let me work it into the answer." CreationDate="2015-04-28T20:12:10.090" UserId="65" />
  <row Id="55" PostId="75" Score="3" Text="I'm not 100% sure that this question ought to be on-topic. This sort of veers into astrology, which, while not entirely divorceable from mythology, is a separate thing, all said and done." CreationDate="2015-04-28T19:55:45.903" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="11502" PostId="75" Score="0" Text="My Asian wife was born in the year of the Fire horse. Well.... :)" CreationDate="2019-04-17T19:39:50.843" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="95" PostId="77" Score="3" Text="My worry is that while you cite a possible scientific cause, you don't prove that your reasoning is one of the reasons why the myth was created. I think this answer would be better if you talked more about mythology and less about science. (I'm sorry if I'm leaving too many comments)." CreationDate="2015-04-28T22:01:39.407" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="96" PostId="77" Score="0" Text="@Christofian It's okay I just have to remember to included everything in my answr." CreationDate="2015-04-28T22:12:27.317" UserId="65" />
  <row Id="64" PostId="78" Score="2" Text="I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stray_sod  &#xA;&#xA;Apparently, wearing a piece of inside-out clothing breaks the stray sod enchantment. Not an answer to you question, but I thought it was worth mentioning :)" CreationDate="2015-04-28T20:08:22.193" UserId="69" />
  <row Id="131" PostId="82" Score="1" Text="Campbell was influenced by Frazer's Golden Bough, which took a similar reductionist approach. That might be a source worth checking." CreationDate="2015-04-29T02:10:31.703" UserId="95" />
  <row Id="15939" PostId="84" Score="0" Text="In fact, Kore ΚΟΡΗ κόρη in Greek is the Greek word for daughter. It has been left untouched even in modern Greek. Example: &#xA;&quot;Daughter of Zeus&quot; Κόρη του Δία." CreationDate="2022-04-30T12:56:45.870" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="199" PostId="85" Score="2" Text="It is Lethe that causes you to forget, surely. And there is in fact a River Styx in the Peloponnese: I know not whether its waters are bitter or oblivion-causing, but it does dry up at inopportune times." CreationDate="2015-04-29T14:03:05.497" UserId="131" />
  <row Id="1503" PostId="85" Score="1" Text="here is a photo of the spring of Styx , modern greek site. http://mythagogia.blogspot.gr/2013/11/blog-post_7.html . It is connected with the &quot;water of immortality&quot;. Its current name is &quot;blackwater.&quot;  http://www.korinthorama.gr/new/article.php?articleID=27&amp;page=2&amp;keyword=" CreationDate="2015-05-03T13:06:41.857" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="73" PostId="87" Score="4" Text="Beautiful answer. Keep it up!" CreationDate="2015-04-28T20:40:44.333" UserId="65" />
  <row Id="125" PostId="87" Score="1" Text="How is lamentation different than woe? Not necessarily the rivers, but the names, I mean, seem to mean the same thing to me: great sorrow." CreationDate="2015-04-28T23:41:26.150" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="188" PostId="87" Score="1" Text="@fredsbend to lament something would probably mean you regret it, so you regret something you did or did not do while alive. Woe would just be general sadness over being dead. That's my understanding of it anyway." CreationDate="2015-04-29T12:16:09.163" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="76" PostId="88" Score="2" Text="Hm. It seems implausible but not _utterly_ inconceivable - after all, the woolly mammoth inhabited North America (through which the Maya's ancestors would have had to pass on their way down to South America) not _too_ long in the past. Anyway, interesting question, +1." CreationDate="2015-04-28T20:42:31.680" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="78" PostId="89" Score="1" Text="Could you cite a specific story, instead of just wikipedia? It would help to know what specific story you are talking about (and from what culture: I'm pretty sure werewolfs exist in several different cultures). See my meta post: http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/18/should-we-require-questions-and-answers-to-quote-from-actual-stories" CreationDate="2015-04-28T20:49:19.353" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="86" PostId="89" Score="3" Text="Concur with Christofian - and this is especially an issue for werewolves, since they have been filtered through the lens of pop culture to a huge degree, making it unclear what actual mythology we're talking about here unless you explicitly state one." CreationDate="2015-04-28T21:00:31.247" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="184" PostId="89" Score="0" Text="@Christofian, as of now there is no upvoted answer to your meta post. We can't really consider it a guideline until some form of consensus has been reached. I shall search for a couple of stories that involve it. It is a fairly common trope, though, so had assumed it would be ok." CreationDate="2015-04-29T11:31:21.593" UserId="75" />
  <row Id="190" PostId="89" Score="0" Text="Oh I see, that was posted as further explanation of your point, my apologies, I misunderstood." CreationDate="2015-04-29T12:25:05.457" UserId="75" />
  <row Id="9052" PostId="89" Score="0" Text="In several works a simple touch burns it. In other works it stops his regen. abilities. Or it works as a poison. Swords would work if you could survive a melee fight with a werewolf." CreationDate="2018-02-27T12:43:49.143" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="91" PostId="96" Score="0" Text="thanks for fixing the spelling it seems my spellchecker is broken" CreationDate="2015-04-28T21:53:02.300" UserId="86" />
  <row Id="97" PostId="98" Score="0" Text="I don't ever remember reading that his was not contempt with this decision, or ever trying to win power over another realm other than his own" CreationDate="2015-04-28T22:19:41.637" UserId="88" />
  <row Id="99" PostId="98" Score="0" Text="@Vass I'm not raising the question as to whether Hades wanted any other realm that his brothers already gained authority of. I'm asking whether he was reluctant in accepting his position or not." CreationDate="2015-04-28T22:24:29.597" UserId="79" />
  <row Id="9036" PostId="98" Score="0" Text="Only case , i know of, of Hades ever complaining about his job is when he wanted a wife. But the underworld in greek mythology is not the christian hell. It is a place for all dead, where they are living based on how good they were in life, so both hell and paradise. Hades also guarded the Tartarus, so he was a very important god. And for the most part he was benevolent. Compared to Zeus, who was an unberable ar*ehole, he was one of the most decent gods." CreationDate="2018-02-26T10:17:28.363" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="138" PostId="99" Score="1" Text="Voting up. I'd like to wait a bit before accepting an answer, but I think you set a high bar for competing answers!" CreationDate="2015-04-29T04:37:44.277" UserId="58" />
  <row Id="144" PostId="99" Score="1" Text="I'm Irish and I can confirm that this is all fact. " CreationDate="2015-04-29T07:26:30.817" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="133" PostId="110" Score="4" Text="I've always head that it was due to Romans conquering Greece and the assimilation that followed. It'd be nice to know whether that's actually what it was though." CreationDate="2015-04-29T02:43:32.863" UserId="34" />
  <row Id="134" PostId="110" Score="4" Text="@Dom The Greeks and Romans shared the same lineage, including religious beliefs. Some of these gods may be considered identical because they literally are." CreationDate="2015-04-29T03:06:51.673" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="137" PostId="110" Score="3" Text="I was told they were quite willing to identify foreign deities as gods of their own pantheons, or include &quot;foreign&quot; deities into their own pantheons. This was one place where the Greek and Roman approach towards religion differed from the Jewish / Christian approach." CreationDate="2015-04-29T04:25:50.330" UserId="58" />
  <row Id="244" PostId="110" Score="3" Text="@VixenPopuli I do believe you are correct that Romans would have worshiped anything; made it easy to create the Imperial Cult. There is evidence that some temples were so open to *any* worship that some idols were to &quot;unnamed gods&quot; as a space filler if *your* god was not currently represented. Acts 17:22-23 is an interesting take on this, calling the people of Athens &quot;very religious&quot;." CreationDate="2015-04-29T23:53:28.747" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="126" PostId="111" Score="6" Text="I'm pretty sure we have no pre-Rigvedic texts from or near India. Now, the Harappan civilization obviously had its own mythos, but aside from sparse artifactual evidence from Harappan sites (plus vestiges of it that might be argued to have been subsumed into Hinduism or Jainism), I don't think we know anything about the pre-Vedic myths of India." CreationDate="2015-04-29T00:22:48.560" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="253" PostId="111" Score="2" Text="@senshin I think you're probably right. Hinduism is just too old. But here's the question in case anybody comes across something. Of course, &quot;not much&quot; or &quot;nothing&quot; is an acceptable answer, albeit, disappointing and not very interesting." CreationDate="2015-04-30T01:45:46.230" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="3334" PostId="111" Score="1" Text="The &quot;modern India before Hinduism&quot;  phrasing was pretty confusing to me at first. I'm guessing the intent is to say &quot;the region which has become India in modern times&quot;, in which case perhaps &quot;people of the Indian region before Hinduism&quot; might be clearer?" CreationDate="2015-06-17T18:45:13.650" UserId="449" />
  <row Id="3335" PostId="111" Score="0" Text="@sundar Feel free to suggest an [edit]." CreationDate="2015-06-17T23:18:58.090" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="127" PostId="114" Score="4" Text="Related: [When and how did the Greek mythos transfer to the Romans?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/110/)" CreationDate="2015-04-29T00:23:10.320" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="128" PostId="114" Score="0" Text="No really... Mine is about why they are so similar" CreationDate="2015-04-29T00:24:31.910" UserId="98" />
  <row Id="129" PostId="114" Score="3" Text="Eh? That's exactly what the other question is asking about." CreationDate="2015-04-29T00:30:55.243" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="140" PostId="114" Score="0" Text="You'd expect them to be similar considering they are descended from a common religion." CreationDate="2015-04-29T04:49:18.873" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="194" PostId="114" Score="6" Text="**I think you have the privilege of asking the first duplicate question on the Mythology Exchange! Congrats!! Have an upvote**" CreationDate="2015-04-29T13:31:21.717" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="258" PostId="114" Score="0" Text="@Daft Wait, what?! We're rewarding a lack of research effort?" CreationDate="2015-04-30T02:27:32.783" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="331" PostId="114" Score="0" Text="@fredsbend lol, yep! Is your world crumbling?" CreationDate="2015-04-30T15:48:33.760" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="135" PostId="125" Score="0" Text="Are they deities or more basic, forces of nature? From your description, it's not clear that they are sentient, unlike Uranus and Gaea." CreationDate="2015-04-29T03:38:55.347" UserId="91" />
  <row Id="136" PostId="125" Score="0" Text="@congusbongus I edited it to say &quot;gods&quot; instead of &quot;deities&quot;" CreationDate="2015-04-29T03:41:11.003" UserId="10" />
  <row Id="159" PostId="127" Score="0" Text="You're opening sentence is confusing. It sounds as if you're saying Promotheus stole fire from man, when he actually stole it from Zeus and gave it to man..." CreationDate="2015-04-29T09:13:17.423" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="160" PostId="127" Score="0" Text="for Prometheus stealing the fire from the Gods? How about the first sentence in the Wikipedia article? &quot;Prometheus (/prəˈmiːθiːəs/ prə-MEE-thee-əs; Greek: Προμηθεύς [promɛːtʰeús], meaning &quot;forethought&quot;)[1] is a Titan in Greek mythology, best known as the benefactor who brought fire to mankind&quot;" CreationDate="2015-04-29T09:13:28.440" UserId="86" />
  <row Id="162" PostId="127" Score="0" Text="Good point I'm editing the sentence to make the meaning clearer" CreationDate="2015-04-29T09:14:25.160" UserId="86" />
  <row Id="467" PostId="128" Score="0" Text="I'm under the impression that ancestor worship came easily for the ancient Chinese. Perhaps all it really took was his death." CreationDate="2015-05-02T08:32:47.903" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="1527" PostId="128" Score="0" Text="@fredsbend that's no doubt an important factor, but as I've hinted at, it took *almost 400 years* after his death, so his death alone was insufficient." CreationDate="2015-05-04T02:29:19.433" UserId="91" />
  <row Id="1530" PostId="128" Score="0" Text="He gradually climbed in popularity until his following became so widespread, he worship became officially promoted by the Imperial Court. Because of the ancestor worship tradition its not really a big leap at any point." CreationDate="2015-05-04T09:57:19.247" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="1559" PostId="129" Score="0" Text="See the related question http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/411/197 &quot;What is the difference between Hecate, Selene, Artemis, and Phoebe?&quot;" CreationDate="2015-05-04T16:26:32.037" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="284" PostId="134" Score="0" Text="I actually gave an example of the claim I make" CreationDate="2015-04-30T10:28:20.990" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="287" PostId="134" Score="1" Text="I did not claim that the sun god was created by greek mythology. I am claiming that they merged the Syrian God with (Mithras and Ba'al) with the Greek Sun gods (Helios and Apollo)" CreationDate="2015-04-30T10:37:17.540" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="290" PostId="134" Score="0" Text="Not when they conquered greece. When they first met with Greek people.  there's a huge difference" CreationDate="2015-04-30T11:06:24.650" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="292" PostId="134" Score="0" Text="crap. sorry, that was supposed to be edited out. will do now" CreationDate="2015-04-30T11:16:16.393" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="11980" PostId="135" Score="0" Text="[Two](http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/21622) related [questions](http://history.stackexchange.com/questions/42737)." CreationDate="2019-10-01T19:20:01.457" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="246" PostId="136" Score="4" Text="A great answer. +1. I have a bit of a concern on the conclusion that Dyeus was the progenitor to Zeus *et al*. In that wikipedia article it states &quot;This deity is not directly attested; rather scholars have reconstructed this deity from the languages and cultures of later Indo-European peoples such as Greeks, Latins and Indo-Aryans.&quot; We have a bit of a circular problem if I ask where Roman mythology came from and the answer is &quot;Dyeus&quot;, yet Dyeus is a reconstruction, not a directly observed deity. Do you think a question on this reconstruction would be on-topic?" CreationDate="2015-04-30T00:11:26.037" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="247" PostId="136" Score="1" Text="Another point, before another brings it up: All your sources are wikipedia. That doesn't usually bother me, and it doesn't in this case, but I bet someone will complain." CreationDate="2015-04-30T00:11:59.510" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="248" PostId="136" Score="2" Text="Well, the reconstruction is based on Indo-European cultures all across Eurasia, from Britain to India. While it isn't directly attested because of how ancient a period we're dealing with here, I think the evidence that these disparate deities had a common origin is fairly solid. Linguistics.SE might be the place to go if you want to find out about more technical details of the reconstruction, though." CreationDate="2015-04-30T00:36:49.347" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="249" PostId="136" Score="0" Text="@fredsbend Yeah, I cite better sources when I have to, but I tend to feel Wikipedia is okay when supporting uncontroversial statements or general background info :)" CreationDate="2015-04-30T00:43:54.617" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="409" PostId="136" Score="2" Text="You forgot the greek colonies in Sicily, and south Italy,  there long before the roman conquest." CreationDate="2015-05-01T11:30:54.587" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="3473" PostId="136" Score="2" Text="According to legend, Rome was a Greek colony as well. Aeneas founded Rome after fleeing Troy. My source; the Aeneid. Of course this can be dismissed as Roman propaganda, but the Greeks planted colonies all round the Med." CreationDate="2015-07-10T13:19:46.223" UserId="487" />
  <row Id="3474" PostId="136" Score="1" Text="@RedSonja If anything, that makes it a Trojan colony though." CreationDate="2015-07-10T13:42:31.977" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3488" PostId="136" Score="1" Text="Ooh yes, Trojan. Nevertheless they shared a culture and the myth palette would have belonged to that. But the Trojans themselves were part of that myth..." CreationDate="2015-07-13T06:02:27.013" UserId="487" />
  <row Id="3927" PostId="136" Score="1" Text="Actually, Hellanicus stated that Rome was founded by [both Aeneas and Odysseus](https://books.google.com/books?id=oii-LwrJeiIC&amp;pg=PA50&amp;lpg=PA50&amp;dq=hellanicus+odysseus+rome&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=89eRG5iL6I&amp;sig=YMsgnSj8L9sY8TxBuN0gKbOVa5M&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0CCoQ6AEwA2oVChMIzbKByrX9yAIVB3gmCh0ROw8S#v=onepage&amp;q=hellanicus%20odysseus%20rome&amp;f=false). Evander is another contender." CreationDate="2015-11-07T03:57:41.377" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="163" PostId="137" Score="0" Text="And it wouldn't be the only condoned incestual relationship. The Moabites descended from Moab, son of Lot and Lot's daughter. The usual explanation I read is that humans were more pure at that time (which also explains their longevity) so incest was not (yet) a (major) problem." CreationDate="2015-04-29T09:14:42.567" UserId="119" />
  <row Id="187" PostId="137" Score="0" Text="Yes but he moved away from his family and then found his wife....." CreationDate="2015-04-29T12:14:12.063" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="219" PostId="137" Score="0" Text="@JohnDemetriou That particular page says that at least some of these other children had moved away already. It doesn't offer Biblical support for this, but when you assume that all humans descend from Adam, that is pretty much the only explanation left." CreationDate="2015-04-29T17:59:36.260" UserId="58" />
  <row Id="186" PostId="139" Score="0" Text="Yes but he moved away from his family and then found his wife....." CreationDate="2015-04-29T12:14:07.943" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="200" PostId="139" Score="6" Text="Ah the good old days, were everyone was related to everyone and you could marry your sister. A simpler time, a better time!" CreationDate="2015-04-29T14:23:14.773" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="13682" PostId="139" Score="0" Text="&quot;Marriage to a sister in the early stage of the human race was not considered wrong or unnatural&quot;&#xA;Considered by whom?" CreationDate="2020-07-17T19:19:24.540" UserId="7096" />
  <row Id="146" PostId="141" Score="1" Text="This seems to me to be out-of-scope for mythology and more a cultural question than a mythological one. Could you edit the question so it asks for a more mythological answer?" CreationDate="2015-04-29T07:30:43.113" UserId="22" />
  <row Id="153" PostId="141" Score="1" Text="@StuartH perhaps, but I don't know because the question *may* have a mythological answer. Besides, I think this is a mythological *and* cultural question, and I disagree with having it off-topic here just because it is on-topic at some other SE, whether or not that other SE exists." CreationDate="2015-04-29T08:34:02.407" UserId="91" />
  <row Id="161" PostId="141" Score="0" Text="That's why I didn't flag it and opted to comment instead. :)" CreationDate="2015-04-29T09:14:15.993" UserId="22" />
  <row Id="196" PostId="141" Score="3" Text="This question is not really about the mythology though just that it has an intersection with it.  A question of how is the mythology reflected in modern culture is probably both more answerable and more on topic.  Why something did not happen is rarely answerable within the scope and rules of a SE site." CreationDate="2015-04-29T13:50:56.297" UserId="9" />
  <row Id="201" PostId="141" Score="0" Text="I have to agree with @Chad while an interesting question this feels out of scope.  I think it is worth discussing on meta as we are still formulating what is and is not on topic." CreationDate="2015-04-29T14:37:31.300" UserId="61" />
  <row Id="149" PostId="146" Score="1" Text="Interesting question, since it seems the number `12` is used in other religions such as Christianity. So I suppose it's not random. Also, there were many gods, not just 12, but usually we're referring to the 12 *basic* ones." CreationDate="2015-04-29T07:55:23.277" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="150" PostId="146" Score="1" Text="Can you point out where else in Greek mythology the number 12 is significant? Im only asking this because of the line &quot;Did the ancient .... 12 symbolized everything?&quot;" CreationDate="2015-04-29T07:55:51.477" UserId="79" />
  <row Id="152" PostId="146" Score="0" Text="I don't know enough to post an answer, but the number 12 was important in older times and it was deemed holy. It was used as a base in arithmetics, just as today we're using decimal, octal and so on, I'll try to answer this a bit more precisely." CreationDate="2015-04-29T08:00:48.507" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="157" PostId="147" Score="5" Text="Any references to back this up?" CreationDate="2015-04-29T09:05:15.757" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="198" PostId="147" Score="0" Text="This comes down to definition.  There are traditionally twelve deities in the Greek Olympian council, meaning the rest of them were not included in Olympian decisions.  This would have been better as a comment or request for clarification from the poster.  Welcome to the site." CreationDate="2015-04-29T14:01:18.633" UserId="61" />
  <row Id="155" PostId="148" Score="2" Text="This is a really interesting answer. I never noticed this regular occurrence of 12 before." CreationDate="2015-04-29T09:04:25.827" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="210" PostId="148" Score="2" Text="I'm a bit dubious about this. Really, for any suitably small number, you can see it appear over and over again in religion/mythology, simply because there are only a few small numbers to choose from. Now, your answer is probably as good as any - they had to pick _some_ number of Olympian deities, after all - but it would be nice to see if there is some explicitly ascribed significance to the number 12 in Greek writings that might directly justify the existence of 12 Olympian deities." CreationDate="2015-04-29T15:41:25.733" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="223" PostId="148" Score="0" Text="@senshin Thanks for the comment. I have read some times about the significance of `12`, I'll try to add some sources when I have some time to dig them up." CreationDate="2015-04-29T19:14:25.230" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="340" PostId="148" Score="0" Text="I guess we also have [12 Sumerian Major Gods](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/206/51)." CreationDate="2015-04-30T17:13:27.693" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="1531" PostId="148" Score="0" Text="I have edited the answer, providing a sourced text." CreationDate="2015-05-04T10:16:06.643" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="2824" PostId="148" Score="1" Text="Pure speculation, but one notable instance of &quot;12&quot; comes from nature: twelve months (i.e. lunar cycles) in each year.  This might have influenced the importance and perceived cosmic significance of the number, especially since many early cultures used lunar calendars.  Either way, great answer!" CreationDate="2015-05-11T19:28:31.693" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="2851" PostId="148" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the comment. My answer is also a speculation. No ancient writer could have said &quot;the gods were 12 because 12 is a special number&quot;; they happened to be 12. The reason why is not enclosed. You might want to add this info as an answer and provide some sources for it. I myself have seen that it's considered a possible reason of why 12 was considered important. But other sources do not believe this was as important as the practical use of the number 12, adding as an example the number of minutes in an hour, which is considered certain to have been used for practical purposes." CreationDate="2015-05-12T18:43:46.293" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="3485" PostId="148" Score="0" Text="12 is a lucky number like 7" CreationDate="2015-07-12T21:24:21.980" UserId="534" />
  <row Id="5979" PostId="148" Score="0" Text="The ancient Greeks were highly versed in the study of the stars and astrology. The 12 gods and goddesses represent the signs of the Zodiac" CreationDate="2016-06-20T02:58:07.460" UserId="2690" />
  <row Id="5993" PostId="148" Score="0" Text="There are actually 13 lunar cycles to a solar year." CreationDate="2016-06-21T13:28:39.903" UserId="282" />
  <row Id="366" PostId="149" Score="1" Text="I'm not sure Saturn was worshiped as much as they partied in his honor. They did have the temple, though, so that's something." CreationDate="2015-04-30T23:45:19.573" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="2812" PostId="152" Score="0" Text="`Plus, there was a fish-headed god in antiquity (not greco-roman)` could you name him/her? From which mythology is he/she from?" CreationDate="2015-05-11T09:46:47.173" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="3229" PostId="152" Score="2" Text="There are several, the most famous is Dagon: &gt;&quot;Dagon was originally an East Semitic Mesopotamian (Akkadian, Assyrian, Babylonian) fertility god who evolved into a major Northwest Semitic god, reportedly of grain (as symbol of fertility) and fish and/or fishing (as symbol of multiplying).&quot;" CreationDate="2015-06-07T00:25:38.257" UserId="123" />
  <row Id="3230" PostId="152" Score="2" Text="PLus fish-headed fertility figures, like: &quot;The anthropomorphic female sculpture (known as Praroditeljka / Ancestress) found in the front of the sanctuary in house No. XLIV at Lepenski Vir has a large &quot;fish-like&quot; head, collar-bones and clawed hands that appear to be opening up her vulva, in a very similar way to that of European Sheela-Na-Gigs figures.&quot; http://www.ancientcraft.co.uk/reenactment/pa_lepenski_vir.html" CreationDate="2015-06-07T00:31:18.887" UserId="123" />
  <row Id="179" PostId="154" Score="5" Text="This is fairly simple question, there is an answer in the header of the [Wikipedia article Mjölnir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mj%C3%B6lnir).  There has been some comments in Meta about discouraging questions who's answer can easily be found online.  If you feel strongly that this question is to simple for this site, please open a Meta discussion about it." CreationDate="2015-04-29T10:37:41.387" UserId="32" />
  <row Id="189" PostId="161" Score="2" Text="Translations of various versions of The Death of Gilgamesh: http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section1/tr1813.htm" CreationDate="2015-04-29T12:20:34.193" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3984" PostId="161" Score="0" Text="If it was common for some to live to 900 years + during that time, 126 years may have seemed young." CreationDate="2015-11-29T23:30:02.830" UserDisplayName="user969" />
  <row Id="191" PostId="162" Score="2" Text="If he died of old age, why the translation say: 'The young man ...... has lain down and is never to rise again.'?" CreationDate="2015-04-29T13:10:01.670" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="193" PostId="162" Score="0" Text="On [wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh#cite_ref-3) we can read 'According to the Sumerian King List, Gilgamesh ruled his city for 126 years.' so I think this suggests that he died of old age. However it's not for sure what kind of lifespan his kind had." CreationDate="2015-04-29T13:17:20.957" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="2798" PostId="162" Score="0" Text="The text of segment B seems to point toward death from old age/disease as well:  `For six days, he ...... ill. ...... on his skin like resin. Lord Gilgamec ...... ill.`  Segment A and B both reference his death-bed as well, which at least implies he died in bed.  Including those might strengthen the answer, to my mind." CreationDate="2015-05-09T22:36:46.547" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="8437" PostId="162" Score="1" Text="@kenorb Some of the kings mentioned in the list ruled for over 20,000 years. Gilgamesh is an infant in comparison." CreationDate="2017-10-07T13:35:30.497" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="408" PostId="164" Score="0" Text="This question is much improved from it's original version, good job :) but it relies entirely on Wikipedia for reference.  The optimal answer would have supporting references from other sources." CreationDate="2015-05-01T10:51:14.957" UserId="32" />
  <row Id="425" PostId="164" Score="0" Text="That is true but I'm not one who knows all kinds of mythology sources and reffrences. If someone is to suggest a good edit ill accept it but unfortunately this is kind of my extend. :(" CreationDate="2015-05-01T15:25:11.427" UserId="129" />
  <row Id="6158" PostId="164" Score="1" Text="@maam27, the Wikipedia does reference Skáldskaparmál 43. (See solsdottir's answer below.) Wikipedia rules require references for information not considered common knowledge, so you can usually get to the source material from the Wikipedia citations." CreationDate="2016-08-24T14:32:44.123" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9063" PostId="165" Score="0" Text="Very interesting is there any history of the fir bolg in Greece" CreationDate="2018-03-01T11:13:04.567" UserId="4815" />
  <row Id="212" PostId="170" Score="0" Text="In the ancient greek version of Genesis from which the King James version was translated (if I am not mistaken about the origin), it states met. In past tense" CreationDate="2015-04-29T16:05:59.447" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="214" PostId="170" Score="0" Text="As far as the Greek, I can't really speak to that.  It could be it was a similar euphemism in the language.  In modern english &quot;have relations with&quot; would be similar as well.  Or it could be a mistranslation, for all I know." CreationDate="2015-04-29T16:26:54.850" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="203" PostId="171" Score="0" Text="Could be because she was a protector-type goddess. Also, she's revered as the goddess of fertility. These factors perhaps increased her importance in the Roman empire." CreationDate="2015-04-29T14:52:21.497" UserId="79" />
  <row Id="2718" PostId="172" Score="1" Text="http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/179/whats-up-with-this-anunnaki-question/180#180" CreationDate="2015-05-07T14:54:16.947" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3684" PostId="176" Score="0" Text="Lugalbanda was made divine. So by some slightly warped logic, his divinity passes in part to Gilgamesh. This is right in the beginning of Book 1." CreationDate="2015-09-16T06:11:12.677" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="14072" PostId="176" Score="0" Text="You could do it if you had a divine mother and two fathers, only one mortal.  Then -- gods.  A goddess could have a son with two fathers." CreationDate="2020-12-20T18:49:08.957" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="5994" PostId="177" Score="1" Text="In Barry Straus' book attempting to relate the Illiad to archaelogical evidence, he mentions that in the Bronze Age near-east &quot;9 and then 10&quot; was a formula for &quot;a long time and then finally&quot;, and doesn't necessarily relate to an actual number." CreationDate="2016-06-21T13:32:22.580" UserId="282" />
  <row Id="6002" PostId="177" Score="0" Text="@RobCrawford, agree, it is a concept and message behind the numbers which is the interpretation to take. A link to the book I can find on Amazon?" CreationDate="2016-06-22T13:48:25.033" UserId="88" />
  <row Id="6017" PostId="177" Score="1" Text="Here: [The Trojan War: A New History](https://www.amazon.com/Trojan-War-New-History/dp/0743264428/)." CreationDate="2016-06-29T13:56:24.427" UserId="282" />
  <row Id="473" PostId="180" Score="2" Text="I have been looking into it over the last couple of days, but so far, I haven't found any stories about the other way round. Good question though! :)" CreationDate="2015-05-02T13:04:44.450" UserId="26" />
  <row Id="16042" PostId="183" Score="0" Text="When not human, she is either a fairy or a generic water deity." CreationDate="2022-07-19T17:49:14.830" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16146" PostId="192" Score="0" Text="There's no reason to believe they believed the gods were originally separate and fused.  Normally when syncretism came into play, the view was that, say, Horus and Helios and Apollo were *and always had been* the same god." CreationDate="2022-10-06T00:37:14.347" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="230" PostId="196" Score="1" Text="Do you have a source other than wikipedia?" CreationDate="2015-04-29T20:03:37.547" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="231" PostId="196" Score="0" Text="@Vixen Populi you say at the end of your awnser that it fits his nature as a trickster deity. But a deity would mean he is a god and not a giant as you state earlier in your awnser. This once again contradicting." CreationDate="2015-04-29T20:07:42.703" UserId="129" />
  <row Id="232" PostId="196" Score="1" Text="@maam27 Loki being a Jötun does not exclude him being a god. It might mean that he is not an Aesir, or that he is only an &quot;honorary&quot; Aesir through being a blood brother of Odin. (BTW, I'm still looking for some confirmation of that &quot;blood brother to Odin&quot; thing - I had not heard that one before)." CreationDate="2015-04-29T20:10:54.307" UserId="58" />
  <row Id="234" PostId="196" Score="0" Text="@Christofian Not ATM, but the English Wikipedia page itself cites an excerpt from the Prose Edda. Second paragraph under &quot;High's introduction&quot;." CreationDate="2015-04-29T20:18:40.923" UserId="58" />
  <row Id="398" PostId="196" Score="0" Text="What is an Asa or Aesir? You mention both but explain neither." CreationDate="2015-05-01T08:33:16.297" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="3492" PostId="196" Score="0" Text="Aesir is another word for the gods of Asgard." CreationDate="2015-07-14T23:57:03.810" UserId="534" />
  <row Id="272" PostId="198" Score="1" Text="If memory serves me right I beleve Loki has given birth to about 5-6 offspring. One of those was Sleipnir, but the 3 you mentioned are from one wife that Loki had." CreationDate="2015-04-30T08:05:40.277" UserId="129" />
  <row Id="274" PostId="198" Score="0" Text="@maam27 you're absolutely right. I mentioned 'in his _normal_ form' in my answer, which was supposed to refer to him as an Asgardian male. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. I'll edit it now." CreationDate="2015-04-30T08:34:12.787" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="3029" PostId="198" Score="3" Text="Are you sure about this: &quot;Loki was originally considered a fire deity&quot;?  Sounds like confusion between Loki and Logi, like in Wagner's &quot;Der Ring des Nibelungen&quot;" CreationDate="2015-05-19T15:22:28.277" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3034" PostId="198" Score="0" Text="Fair enough, I'll just ask a new question.  [Here, If you'd like to give a look](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/748/was-loki-originally-a-fire-god)." CreationDate="2015-05-19T18:08:08.583" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3159" PostId="198" Score="1" Text="I know that question came later, but according to the accepted answer on [this question](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/748/was-loki-originally-a-fire-god), Loki was **never** a fire god." CreationDate="2015-05-27T09:10:33.163" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="254" PostId="199" Score="2" Text="Is your question: &quot;Are there any myths that might be about Stonehenge?&quot; I think such a question is very close to a list question or straw poll. It's not a very good question." CreationDate="2015-04-30T01:55:38.820" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="330" PostId="199" Score="4" Text="@fredsbend I'm inclined to disagree. The question &quot;does X exist?&quot; is (at least in this case) easily answerable by someone familiar with the medieval British mythological canon, and answers the following implicit question, which I think is inherently interesting: &quot;I have never come across Stonehenge in British myth. This is curious to me, given its fame today. Have I just not read the right narratives, or is there a reason that medieval mythographers did not write about Stonehenge?&quot;" CreationDate="2015-04-30T15:41:04.890" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="468" PostId="199" Score="0" Text="This question is similar to this one. They are asking if any mythology exists regarding something else. [Do Egyptian myths provide explanations for the shape of the pyramid?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/322)" CreationDate="2015-05-02T08:36:01.160" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="10506" PostId="204" Score="0" Text="You say the girl was impaled on a shuttle. What is meant by that? What is a shuttle?" CreationDate="2018-04-30T21:17:22.910" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10508" PostId="204" Score="1" Text="@AndrewJohnson It's a tool used for weaving. See for example: https://i.imgur.com/10C823c.jpg" CreationDate="2018-04-30T22:23:58.097" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="238" PostId="206" Score="1" Text="Doesn't look to me like there is any significance to the number.  The article doesn't claim they are some official group of cheif gods like the Dodekatheon, or anything like that.  Just the ones the some Wikipedia editors though were important (as opposed to other wikipedia editors, who made different choices in the sidebar when separating &quot;Other Major Gods&quot; from &quot;Minor Gods&quot;)" CreationDate="2015-04-29T22:07:41.877" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="240" PostId="206" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon What about this article: [Guide to the Mesopotamian Pantheon of Gods](http://www.ianlawton.com/mes2.htm)?" CreationDate="2015-04-29T22:22:48.103" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="243" PostId="206" Score="0" Text="Hey, got a citation for it, that's something to go on." CreationDate="2015-04-29T23:09:39.383" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="318" PostId="207" Score="0" Text="+1 for linking this doctoral dissertation - I'm looking forward to reading it!" CreationDate="2015-04-30T12:57:20.587" UserDisplayName="user40" />
  <row Id="239" PostId="208" Score="1" Text="Isn't housing the Minotaur the main purpose?" CreationDate="2015-04-29T22:20:37.403" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="241" PostId="208" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore Then he could build a shed, not a labyrinth." CreationDate="2015-04-29T22:26:53.523" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="266" PostId="208" Score="0" Text="Is there any indication that the labyrinth served another purpose? Voting to leave open, the question is on-topic, but without indication that the labyrinth served other purposes as well, this is unfortunately a poor question." CreationDate="2015-04-30T04:53:37.523" UserId="58" />
  <row Id="270" PostId="208" Score="1" Text="That sentence he quotes reads as if Daedalus first created the labyrinth and then afterwards it was used to house the Minotaur so I can understand the confusion." CreationDate="2015-04-30T06:09:25.783" UserId="84" />
  <row Id="3177" PostId="208" Score="1" Text="Similar: [Why was the Minotaur enclosed in a labyrinth and not in jail of some sort?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/852/51)" CreationDate="2015-06-01T17:18:33.347" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="8830" PostId="213" Score="0" Text="Aren't they supposed to grow more tails with time and wisdom? Magical foxes with long life spans are not something exclusive to eastern cultures, so I would guess that this creature originates from animal dieties and shamanism." CreationDate="2018-01-25T11:41:55.330" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="14587" PostId="213" Score="0" Text="one tale every hundred years. After they get 9 tales, they are called a Zenko. Beyond this they can become a divine being and then they are called Tenko" CreationDate="2021-08-27T14:44:36.340" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="250" PostId="214" Score="0" Text="Very interesting, thank you - there is thus no mention of Thanatos? Should Wikipedia be corrected?" CreationDate="2015-04-30T01:09:52.477" UserId="139" />
  <row Id="251" PostId="214" Score="0" Text="@Docteur Sorry no, this is one of multiple reasons for his punishment. I will edit my answer to include more." CreationDate="2015-04-30T01:30:17.607" UserId="38" />
  <row Id="265" PostId="217" Score="4" Text="In this case &quot;Heaven&quot; (天, tian) refers to the supreme sky deity. During this period the personification of the sky has not yet progressed very far." CreationDate="2015-04-30T04:38:21.853" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="297" PostId="219" Score="1" Text="This question was in our definition step of our site.... and highly upvoted one" CreationDate="2015-04-30T11:31:27.947" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="1541" PostId="219" Score="2" Text="There is a discussion on meta on whether this is too broad or not. http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/134/why-is-this-question-too-broad" CreationDate="2015-05-04T14:24:58.440" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="1547" PostId="219" Score="0" Text="Given [my answer to the Meta question](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/a/137/18), I suggest that you clarify what &quot;similar&quot; means to you for your question. Do that, and I'll retract my close vote." CreationDate="2015-05-04T15:05:35.290" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="1558" PostId="219" Score="0" Text="@El'endiaStarman tried to make it more clear and specific" CreationDate="2015-05-04T16:14:16.757" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="286" PostId="221" Score="1" Text="+1, though I (mis)read your first sentence at first as &quot;they have excavated 560 gods so far&quot; which made me wonder if the Mesopotamians actually buried their dead gods." CreationDate="2015-04-30T10:35:40.100" UserId="119" />
  <row Id="12417" PostId="222" Score="0" Text="This answer is wrong on several points.  Epona was worshiped by soldiers because of her connection to cavalry, and the fact that she was the only deity venerated in Rome proper shows her widespread popularity." CreationDate="2020-03-06T16:45:51.077" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="1533" PostId="224" Score="9" Text="`However leaders of the warriors would go to Valhalla while the regular soldiers/vikings would go to Fólkvangr.` Any souce to back this up?" CreationDate="2015-05-04T10:57:28.743" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="1537" PostId="224" Score="1" Text="@naltipar It's all based on translation. No source needed." CreationDate="2015-05-04T12:02:16.423" UserId="65" />
  <row Id="2786" PostId="224" Score="9" Text="@YoungGuilo really? If you translated this (which I doubt), could you explain how you arrived at the meaning of those two words? If you are reading a translation, could you cite that translation? Answers without sources are useful to no one, because if I want to learn more about this topic, I have no where to go." CreationDate="2015-05-09T13:48:58.060" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="275" PostId="227" Score="0" Text="@Luna thanks for the review! But was it really so bad to put a bit of &quot;personal&quot; infos on the question? :P" CreationDate="2015-04-30T08:41:47.243" UserDisplayName="user40" />
  <row Id="277" PostId="227" Score="0" Text="It's hardly the end of the world, no :P But generally at StackExchange we try to avoid personal aspects of the question to make it more useful for people searching and reading. Since I was editing for spelling, I took the liberty of removing the meta-talk. You can rollback if you prefer, but here's some more info on that policy: http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2950/should-hi-thanks-taglines-and-salutations-be-removed-from-posts http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/216602/whats-wrong-with-using-polite-language-in-questions?lq=1" CreationDate="2015-04-30T08:48:02.557" UserId="26" />
  <row Id="278" PostId="227" Score="0" Text="@Luna no no, it doesn't really matters :D" CreationDate="2015-04-30T08:51:26.413" UserDisplayName="user40" />
  <row Id="336" PostId="227" Score="0" Text="Perhaps it is worth keeping in mind that modern conceptions of what activities are masculine and what activities are feminine probably do not correlate all that well with ancient conceptions of masculinity/femininity." CreationDate="2015-04-30T16:44:50.467" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="3298" PostId="228" Score="0" Text="Simek's theory is interesting, but sounds a lot more like the cyclical nature of Hindu myths, rather than the linear nature of the myths found in the Northern European area. It would be quite unique if the Voluspa was meant to indicate a cyclic creation and destruction, rather than a linear creation, then destruction, then possible rebirth/renewal." CreationDate="2015-06-13T16:11:30.560" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="295" PostId="234" Score="0" Text="Doesn't look look like mutch of a maze to me, that is at least if the lighter color is the path. So I doubt that it is to represent the maze." CreationDate="2015-04-30T11:24:02.460" UserId="129" />
  <row Id="296" PostId="234" Score="2" Text="I assume the _darker_ colour is the path. Also, don;t forget the original labyrinth was meant to keep the Minotaur _inside_, it wasn't build as a pass-time for people to go and find the centre (on the contrary!). Thirdly, this is a 2.5KA old _coin_. Artistic license, technical limits and sheer _size_ of the coin may play a role in slightly simplifying the actual layout as well..." CreationDate="2015-04-30T11:29:49.373" UserId="119" />
  <row Id="298" PostId="234" Score="0" Text="That is true but if it was to keep someone in or some beast, one wouldn't go for a straight path but I do get where you are comming from with the arguments." CreationDate="2015-04-30T11:31:45.670" UserId="129" />
  <row Id="299" PostId="234" Score="0" Text="Actually, two of the three paths that connect in the centre are only connected to each other and form a small closed loop, which would keep the monster in quite nicely." CreationDate="2015-04-30T11:34:05.350" UserId="119" />
  <row Id="450" PostId="237" Score="0" Text="That page, and the specified ranking system, look very dubious to me.  Wish there were some citations somewhere in there, but I can't find it reproduced anywhere else." CreationDate="2015-05-01T20:51:29.907" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="301" PostId="239" Score="5" Text="I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it reads like a [list question](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/12/), which are typically off-topic on SE sites." CreationDate="2015-04-30T11:46:39.170" UserId="96" />
  <row Id="302" PostId="239" Score="5" Text="Yes indeed. But as stated in the question itself the reason list questions are off topic in SE sites because they can easily change. Now questions like this one or questions of the likes of &quot;How many and which human children did Zeus have?&quot; are not the typical list question of SE sites. Thus this is different. It has a finite set of answers which will never change in time" CreationDate="2015-04-30T11:49:10.830" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="305" PostId="239" Score="1" Text="Understood.  :-)  It'll be important for the community to determine what is and isn't acceptable for list questions, and this may well be a perfectly fine question.  the other issue with list questions is that they tent to be too broad, which is what triggered me to vtc on this one.  that may have been a close reason, if a close reason were needed." CreationDate="2015-04-30T12:11:29.417" UserId="96" />
  <row Id="307" PostId="239" Score="0" Text="I still do not believe that this should be closed though. I am only getting into conversation because this will help build the site onwards. In the list question meta link you provided James answer covers list questions how they should be treated and I believe this to fall under the not close section" CreationDate="2015-04-30T12:13:36.953" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="316" PostId="239" Score="1" Text="I voted to leave this question open because I actually wanted to ask it myself. Anyway, I may agree that this topic may be too broad to receive a proper answer." CreationDate="2015-04-30T12:52:22.467" UserDisplayName="user40" />
  <row Id="365" PostId="239" Score="0" Text="List questions are like trivia. They are interesting sometimes, but they don't really facilitate any really learning about the topic. I'm voting to leave closed." CreationDate="2015-04-30T23:34:04.560" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="6762" PostId="240" Score="0" Text="Regarding this answer, it's important to note that the case for the palace comes from the origin of the word labyrinth.  It derives from a pre-Greek word &quot;[labrys](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dla%2Fbrus)&quot;, referring to a type of sacred, [double-edged axe](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=pe%2Flekus&amp;la=greek&amp;can=pe%2Flekus0&amp;prior=la/brus&amp;d=Perseus:text:1999.04.0057:entry=la/brus&amp;i=1#lexicon).  Thus &quot;labyrinth&quot; may have meant something like &quot;palace of the sacred axe&quot;." CreationDate="2016-12-20T16:55:10.730" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="306" PostId="241" Score="1" Text="You actually explained the purpose of the labyrinth, not how it looks like (which this question actually focus on). Actually it's great, because there is another question which asks that: [What was the purpose of the Labyrinth built by Daedalus?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/208/51) Could you answer that there, please? That it served the purpose as a prison." CreationDate="2015-04-30T12:11:39.413" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="308" PostId="241" Score="0" Text="@kenorb The quote may discuss the purpose of the labyrinth, but it also tells us that it wasn't a labyrinth." CreationDate="2015-04-30T12:13:51.913" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="312" PostId="242" Score="2" Text="If mortals would perish looking upon a god, then why did it work with Kallisto, who was seduced by Zeus in the guise of the goddess Artemis (according to your list)? But, good question!" CreationDate="2015-04-30T12:26:44.900" UserId="119" />
  <row Id="313" PostId="242" Score="0" Text="Good point! Maybe could make another question? :) Perhaps it's because Callisto was a nymph, not a human - merits looking into, though." CreationDate="2015-04-30T12:28:35.453" UserId="26" />
  <row Id="329" PostId="245" Score="0" Text="Do we happen to know the names of any of the works from which the Kojiki was compiled?" CreationDate="2015-04-30T15:38:33.377" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="332" PostId="245" Score="1" Text="@senshin AFAIK we don't know any, but they probably would have had  generic names similar to the surviving officially backed works." CreationDate="2015-04-30T16:11:04.630" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="11501" PostId="245" Score="0" Text="They might have been oral stories similar to how some other Asian primitive people like the M'nong Ot N'Drong. Passed orally and eventually written down, many lost with the death of a storyteller without inheritor" CreationDate="2019-04-17T19:36:59.033" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="367" PostId="247" Score="1" Text="kenorb, you're right: the source is criticising the &quot;ancient astronaut&quot; theory. I think this question might be more helpful if you briefly summarised why you want to more about that symbol (although the link &quot;A Brief Analysis of Cylinder Seal VA 243&quot; does explain this, it would be easier for most people reading this question if they didn't have to read the entire paper to understand the background behind this question." CreationDate="2015-04-30T23:59:57.937" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="10972" PostId="249" Score="0" Text="nice answer, but I find the turning into animals really strange like was it expected at the time for women to be sexually attracted to animals?" CreationDate="2018-10-27T15:51:43.863" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="328" PostId="254" Score="4" Text="The day before they found the fossils?" CreationDate="2015-04-30T15:37:38.387" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="333" PostId="254" Score="4" Text="European and Asian dragons are not even remotely similar, however. I wouldn't expect them to have the same source, even though they share the same English name by some accident.. BTW I've heard theories that the Chinese dragon was the result of merging tribal animal insignia.." CreationDate="2015-04-30T16:16:50.970" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="335" PostId="254" Score="5" Text="Agree with Semaphore - depictions of European and Chinese dragons also aren't that similar. Sure, they're both vaguely lizardy, but that's about as far as it goes. The fact that we use the word &quot;dragon&quot; as a translation for Chinese 龍 doesn't really mean anything. We do the same thing when we call the Chinese fenghuang a &quot;phoenix&quot;, despite it having relatively little in common with the Greek phoenix." CreationDate="2015-04-30T16:35:07.750" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="3095" PostId="254" Score="2" Text="Don't forget [Quetzalcoatl](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl)" CreationDate="2015-05-22T08:34:34.783" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="334" PostId="255" Score="2" Text="I don't think he spends them at all, it's purely symbolic. Everyone has to pay their dues." CreationDate="2015-04-30T16:26:06.767" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="337" PostId="255" Score="2" Text="Read this dialogue of the cynic Menippus with Charon http://www.theoi.com/Text/LucianDialoguesDead1.html" CreationDate="2015-04-30T16:45:58.577" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="339" PostId="257" Score="1" Text="[12 Sumerian Great Gods](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/206/51) and 12 zodiac constellations." CreationDate="2015-04-30T17:12:20.697" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="342" PostId="257" Score="0" Text="The moon month cuts the year into thirteen , but maybe early man  had a month error in gauging the  repetition of seasons, and once arithmetic developed 12 was a better base ." CreationDate="2015-04-30T18:48:21.640" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="435" PostId="257" Score="0" Text="As well as [12 mysterious symbols](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/247/51) (including star) appearing on cylinder seal VA/243." CreationDate="2015-05-01T16:48:39.650" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="437" PostId="257" Score="0" Text="I think this is how gods divided their sky segments by grouping the stars into 12 constellations (for example [Taurus](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/182/51)), so each constellation could be named after major gods (The Pantheon of Twelve)." CreationDate="2015-05-01T16:56:39.617" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="1532" PostId="257" Score="0" Text="I wanted to say with this, that there was only a mathematical aspect of why it was considered a great number, but not any other meaning, which people worshipped 12 for." CreationDate="2015-05-04T10:30:40.390" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="16401" PostId="258" Score="1" Text="Note that it wasn't a real mirror, but simply shiny brass. One would see a reflection, but it would be brass coloured and rather than a sharp image it would be more of a blurry shape.." CreationDate="2023-06-11T03:39:33.887" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="362" PostId="264" Score="0" Text="I can't speak specifically about Mu, but both sound like [Flood Myths](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth) to me. [There are at least 20 of them](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths) and they all revolve around a great civilization being flooded by divine action. They may actually be founded in a seed of truth (i.e. an actually flood may have occurred somewhere in ancient times. [Talk Origins has a stupendous writeup on the topic.](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html)" CreationDate="2015-04-30T23:18:30.377" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="363" PostId="264" Score="0" Text="And taking a look at the wikipedia article for Mu, it looks like a 19th century invention, not a legitimate myth from any culture. This might fall under the pseudo-science guideline and should perhaps be closed. Reference: [Are discussion of mythology-related pseudo-science off-topic](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/q/83)" CreationDate="2015-04-30T23:30:14.890" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="364" PostId="264" Score="4" Text="[Questions about mythology related pseudo-science are off-topic.](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/q/83)" CreationDate="2015-04-30T23:31:00.213" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="399" PostId="264" Score="0" Text="Perhaps not pseudo-science per se, but certainly tales which were purposely invented for various purposes, as opposed to believed as truth by the storytellers." CreationDate="2015-05-01T08:42:02.470" UserId="26" />
  <row Id="447" PostId="264" Score="1" Text="This seemed to be something of a grey area, to me.  Both lost islands have inspired more than their share of pseudo-science baloney, of course.  But Atlantis, at least, seems to be widely believed to be a part of Greek mythology.  A myth of a myth perhaps (*how meta*)." CreationDate="2015-05-01T19:09:21.743" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3318" PostId="269" Score="5" Text="I have some doubts about whether Odin actually had any say in who entered Valhalla: [Does Odin choose who enters Valhalla?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/929/57)." CreationDate="2015-06-16T10:57:30.533" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4721" PostId="269" Score="0" Text="Obviously this wouldn't be how the Norse explained it but this sounds to me like it could be a compromise resulting from the &quot;war of the functions&quot; discussed by Mallory and others - the suggestion that the Aesir-Vanir distinction (and war) reflects a historical fusion of two ancestral pantheistic religions. In this case, a compromise between two different existing (Vanir and Aesir) explanations of what happens after death.&#xA;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86sir%E2%80%93Vanir_War#Proto-Indo-European_basis" CreationDate="2016-04-20T11:53:38.350" UserId="1455" />
  <row Id="386" PostId="272" Score="2" Text="found this about rape and greek/roman times http://www.stoa.org/diotima/essays/rape_harris.shtml" CreationDate="2015-05-01T03:32:53.060" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="368" PostId="273" Score="1" Text="Although 12 is an interesting mathematical number, the other observations are a bit dubious. A quick scan of the [author's homepage](http://www.sacredscience.com/ferrera/) makes him look like bit of a numerology quack. For instance, the 1+2=3 observation requires using a base 10 system, which is not necessarily the most &quot;natural&quot; base to use." CreationDate="2015-05-01T00:25:15.957" UserId="91" />
  <row Id="374" PostId="273" Score="0" Text="@congusbongus the base 10 remains the most commonly used base even among people who didn't exchange with each other at first because it makes sense to use your fingers to count. If men had 8 fingers base 8 would probably be more common" CreationDate="2015-05-01T01:13:44.687" UserId="86" />
  <row Id="384" PostId="273" Score="0" Text="@meneldal  I just realized this: In primitive hunting cultures, when counting/signaling  &quot;one&quot;, &quot;two&quot; &quot;many&quot; , one and two can be the two hands, fist closed. Extra numbers could be a finger for each extra moose/enemy. And that makes twelve ." CreationDate="2015-05-01T03:09:47.583" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="419" PostId="273" Score="0" Text="@annav The usual inference for why base-12 counting systems arose is that you can use the thumb of your hand to count the 4x3 = 12 phalange segments on the other four fingers of that hand." CreationDate="2015-05-01T14:58:57.580" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="434" PostId="273" Score="0" Text="@senshin it was just a flash idea, I have not read it anywhere. I was thinking of hunters ( i.e. distance and communicating)." CreationDate="2015-05-01T16:45:58.760" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="6842" PostId="273" Score="0" Text="@congusbongus &quot;numerology&quot; and &quot;quack&quot; may be redundant, although [number theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_theory) itself is quite legit." CreationDate="2017-01-04T20:06:03.440" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="359" PostId="274" Score="5" Text="Does this really answer the question? The question asks about the *meaning* of the star symbol." CreationDate="2015-04-30T22:11:33.680" UserId="38" />
  <row Id="423" PostId="274" Score="0" Text="@PythonMaster If you say this is our beloved Sun, what are the dots around?" CreationDate="2015-05-01T15:16:40.653" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="424" PostId="274" Score="0" Text="It is not the sun I said. The picture is a star, not the Sun." CreationDate="2015-05-01T15:19:38.143" UserId="98" />
  <row Id="428" PostId="274" Score="2" Text="@PythonMaster Perhaps add information about *what* stars represented to the Sumerians to better answer this question?" CreationDate="2015-05-01T15:41:38.563" UserId="38" />
  <row Id="2853" PostId="274" Score="0" Text="@PythonMaster - &quot;even the dots are part of the star.&quot; I don't think your source supports that.  The [PDF linked there](http://www.michaelsheiser.com/VA243seal.pdf) provides more complete information, and states they are also stars, likely representing some constellation (Section III - Surrounding &quot;Dots&quot;)." CreationDate="2015-05-12T20:17:57.470" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="369" PostId="275" Score="0" Text="Do you have any reason for suspecting that this may have occurred in Greek mythology? Or is this just random speculation?" CreationDate="2015-05-01T00:38:44.080" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="370" PostId="275" Score="0" Text="@Christofian I think the rationale is the example he gave in his question: it happened to Egypt, so it could have happened in Greece." CreationDate="2015-05-01T00:44:39.363" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="371" PostId="275" Score="0" Text="@Christofian at first, I suspected Zeus might qualify since he's the king already. Also, [according to this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism#Hellenistic_religion), there were apparently monotheistic cults that worshipped Dionysus. Perhaps those more familiar with this subject can write a good answer." CreationDate="2015-05-01T00:59:15.407" UserId="91" />
  <row Id="372" PostId="275" Score="1" Text="Well in Egypt this came from a Pharaoh who had and always had power given by the gods over its subjects. Rulers in Greece weren't like that so it is unlikely they could have done the same thing" CreationDate="2015-05-01T01:09:21.423" UserId="86" />
  <row Id="373" PostId="275" Score="0" Text="@meneldal I'm not sure what you're trying to say; why would religions require rulers enforcing them? Plenty of people are religious today without any laws forcing them to." CreationDate="2015-05-01T01:12:17.173" UserId="91" />
  <row Id="375" PostId="275" Score="0" Text="I meant than in Egypt people didn't really believed and changed their beliefs like that. The new religion was shelved as soon as the pharaoh died. It only seemed to work because it was enforced by an authority." CreationDate="2015-05-01T01:15:53.500" UserId="86" />
  <row Id="385" PostId="275" Score="0" Text="note: &quot;hellenistic&quot; is used for the period  of Alexander and descendants , just before the Roman period." CreationDate="2015-05-01T03:17:31.520" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="16266" PostId="275" Score="0" Text="Related question: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/10555/whats-with-this-religion-of-zeus-being-one-and-only-omnipotent-god?rq=1" CreationDate="2023-01-25T17:28:05.820" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="387" PostId="278" Score="0" Text="There's no evidence she was that young. Most art from the Renaissance of this scene has her much older." CreationDate="2015-05-01T03:42:16.850" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="388" PostId="278" Score="4" Text="@durron597  The renaissance happened thousand of years after the society that created this myth was extinct. Girls were married off once they could bear children, 14 or so. If the prophesy came after puberty it would be  too late, because she would belong to a husband and the story would be different." CreationDate="2015-05-01T03:47:20.100" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="389" PostId="278" Score="0" Text="[Danae doesn't look 12 in this picture](http://www.theoi.com/GalleryO1.html)" CreationDate="2015-05-01T03:52:42.443" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="390" PostId="278" Score="1" Text="@durron597 The picture is the imagination of the artist.  anyway the 12 I used because a child of less age cannot become pregnant so could be free to roam the house." CreationDate="2015-05-01T03:57:00.283" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="391" PostId="278" Score="3" Text="Do you even have a citation that Acrisius received the prophecy before Danae entered puberty? I always assumed it was well after." CreationDate="2015-05-01T04:01:27.970" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="392" PostId="278" Score="3" Text="@durron597 You have to think of the culture at those times. &quot;The culmination of a young woman's socialization was her marriage , which usually took place at the age of fourteen or fifteen&quot; http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/wmna/hd_wmna.htm" CreationDate="2015-05-01T04:12:27.733" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="1529" PostId="278" Score="0" Text="I am amused by the negative votes without a comment in what they disagree :)" CreationDate="2015-05-04T04:27:43.147" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="1536" PostId="278" Score="0" Text="They probably agree with me, I'd guess." CreationDate="2015-05-04T11:39:47.897" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="440" PostId="280" Score="0" Text="But what about the genealogy of Greek gods, where Zeus is the son of a titan Cronus?" CreationDate="2015-05-01T17:45:04.513" UserId="16" />
  <row Id="452" PostId="280" Score="0" Text="@BrianRobbins genealogy is an orthogonal issue." CreationDate="2015-05-02T02:03:39.000" UserId="91" />
  <row Id="4842" PostId="280" Score="0" Text="The word you're looking for is *syncretic*.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism" CreationDate="2016-05-27T02:30:22.580" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="16353" PostId="280" Score="0" Text="Even unquestionably historical figures have been known to accumulate a mishmash of legends that are not compatible.  For that matter, people describe known people in incompatible manners.  Therefore this appears to be a superfluous hypothesis." CreationDate="2023-05-05T01:07:29.983" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="3306" PostId="281" Score="2" Text="So, I'm gathering that it was possibly a land plant that became inundated at the time of the flood and somehow this plant was able to adapt and remain alive." CreationDate="2015-06-14T03:24:37.023" UserId="46" />
  <row Id="14482" PostId="281" Score="0" Text="There is a parallel here with the Chinese White Snake legend.  [White Snake steals a magic herb which restores life!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_White_Snake#Basic_story)" CreationDate="2021-06-20T00:18:48.493" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14508" PostId="281" Score="1" Text="@luserdroog, it could have been a story partially based on what the flood survivors had recorded about the location of the garden of Eden with reference to the rivers that had their endpoints in the Persian Gulf (in Genesis 2:10). Meaning that perhaps the location of that garden, with the &quot;tree of life&quot; (Genesis 2:9) ended up submerged under the waters in the Persian Gulf. The Gilgamesh had some other aspects in it too that was more like a fantasy, such as the those parts involving Huwawa." CreationDate="2021-07-05T21:01:58.730" UserDisplayName="user4762" />
  <row Id="400" PostId="282" Score="1" Text="What's your evidence for the claim that &quot;nowadays most consider him to be a former god&quot; ?" CreationDate="2015-05-01T08:59:05.933" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="401" PostId="282" Score="1" Text="@Semaphore Lewis 2009, p. 556: &quot;modern scholars of myth generally agree that the sage kings were partially humanized transformations of earlier, supernatural beings who figured in shamanistic rituals, cosmogonic myths or tales of the origins of tribes and clans.&quot; Lewis, Mark Edward (2009), &quot;The mythology of early China&quot;, in John Lagerwey and Mark Kalinowski, Early Chinese Religion: Part One: Shang through Han, Leiden and Boston: Brill, pp. 543–594, ISBN 978-90-04-16835-0" CreationDate="2015-05-01T09:14:54.720" UserId="91" />
  <row Id="402" PostId="282" Score="1" Text="Ah, &quot;modern scholars *of myth*&quot;; my sense was that modern historians in general do not quite say that. A cursory examinations suggests that Mark Edward Lewis is basing that predominantly on the Doubting Antiquity School's claims, and its contemporary works." CreationDate="2015-05-01T09:37:08.940" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="405" PostId="282" Score="2" Text="The problem is, the inference that the Yellow Emperor was formerly a &quot;supernatural being&quot;, is based on the **earliest** texts mentioning him (supposedly) only appearing later in time. So you're effectively asking for inferences on an inference that is itself unsubstantiated in physical or literary evidence." CreationDate="2015-05-01T10:15:23.923" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="411" PostId="282" Score="1" Text="@Semaphore I will gladly accept an answer that can demonstrate the weakness in the inference too." CreationDate="2015-05-01T12:44:07.620" UserId="91" />
  <row Id="403" PostId="283" Score="1" Text="Cool question, and +1 for **cosmic goose**." CreationDate="2015-05-01T10:05:28.857" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="404" PostId="283" Score="1" Text="@Daft Heh, reading about the cosmic goose in the [World Egg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_egg#Egyptian_mythology) article was why I started researching Ra's origins. It's a cool story." CreationDate="2015-05-01T10:07:05.430" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="406" PostId="283" Score="0" Text="This one will be pretty tricky I reckon. I hope someone comes up with a great answer because I'd definitely like to see it!" CreationDate="2015-05-01T10:15:51.887" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="460" PostId="283" Score="0" Text="The one I always here involves an egg. But that could just be a reflection on what  story people today prefer to tell." CreationDate="2015-05-02T05:14:41.343" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="1635" PostId="283" Score="0" Text="Ra is just type of being so it doesn't refer to specific being, so I guess it can vary, as there are many Ra's. This is just my opinion." CreationDate="2015-05-05T20:21:22.250" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="1636" PostId="283" Score="0" Text="​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​@kenorb Ra is the Egyptian solar deity. It's a single being." CreationDate="2015-05-05T20:23:50.090" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="16268" PostId="284" Score="1" Text="I'd say it's a bit more complicated than that. [See my other post](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/10555/whats-with-this-religion-of-zeus-being-one-and-only-omnipotent-god?rq=1) for details." CreationDate="2023-01-25T18:02:31.663" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="417" PostId="286" Score="1" Text="Surely the answer is no, simply as a consequence of the fact that Native American peoples (by definition) span an entire continent, and wouldn't have had a shared cultural history for thousands of years before present." CreationDate="2015-05-01T14:54:14.833" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="420" PostId="286" Score="0" Text="@senshin Actually it is two continents with a land bridge, at least until [1914](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal)" CreationDate="2015-05-01T15:00:17.943" UserId="32" />
  <row Id="421" PostId="286" Score="0" Text="Well, sure, if you count South American peoples, then the answer is even more likely no, though the term &quot;Native American&quot; does not typically refer to the indigenous people of South America." CreationDate="2015-05-01T15:01:48.767" UserId="33" />
  <row Id="2922" PostId="287" Score="2" Text="There are numerous [references to stories](http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/3696418-wandjina--aboriginal-sky-gods) whereby they travelled down from the sky on _giant silver boomerangs_... which is odd. These all seem to imply that the Wandjina were real life extra terrestrials though, which again is odd." CreationDate="2015-05-14T15:19:28.853" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="3054" PostId="287" Score="1" Text="I'm aware of a few versions of the story from the &quot;god is an astronaut&quot; brigade but I've never seen a credible researched source - hence the question." CreationDate="2015-05-20T10:20:26.390" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16081" PostId="288" Score="0" Text="What makes you think the children of Rangi and Papa are not Gods and Goddesses when they were? As in Greek mythology Zeus is the God of the Sky just as Ranginui is. I am sure you would consider his children to be God/desses since Zeus was also considered to be the father of Gods and humans. Just as Tane was the God of humans, forests, bringer of knowledge and higher consciousness." CreationDate="2022-08-20T06:44:07.293" UserId="9491" />
  <row Id="414" PostId="298" Score="0" Text="Thanks, that's an informative quote, and explains (2). But I don't think it answers (1), since it just says it's a suggestion from Tangaroa without explaining why Tane chose to follow it." CreationDate="2015-05-01T14:42:24.527" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="418" PostId="301" Score="1" Text="I know Cronus ate them as he feared they would overthrow him one day, (which they did). I didn't know Zeus did the same." CreationDate="2015-05-01T14:56:50.860" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="427" PostId="301" Score="4" Text="Can you provide the source which states `Zeus tried eating his children`?" CreationDate="2015-05-01T15:36:43.343" UserId="79" />
  <row Id="446" PostId="301" Score="1" Text="Zeus ate Metis *while* she was pregnant with Athena, but he didn't eat his children. That would be *a lot* of children to eat..." CreationDate="2015-05-01T18:28:10.183" UserId="38" />
  <row Id="3402" PostId="301" Score="1" Text="Not so sure about the edit here.  The significance of eating family members in general is not the same question as asking about eating one's offspring (filivory?).  The bit about Zeus may have been inaccurate (or at least, imprecise, since Metis *was* pregnant at the time), but I don't think that's reason to significantly change the question being asked.  I've edited to bring the question back to asking about children, but I'm not trying to start an edit war.  Revert if you think it's necessary, and we can discuss further in meta." CreationDate="2015-06-25T04:06:30.343" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3404" PostId="301" Score="0" Text="I agree with your final revision. I do not think any further edits are necessary." CreationDate="2015-06-25T04:39:24.700" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7059" PostId="301" Score="0" Text="It is not really eating, right ? It is more swallowing ? I would assume there is a big difference here." CreationDate="2017-02-09T10:17:06.107" UserId="3439" />
  <row Id="11934" PostId="301" Score="0" Text="See *[Cronus: Name and comparative mythology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronus#Name_and_comparative_mythology)*." CreationDate="2019-09-27T07:32:54.213" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="12325" PostId="303" Score="0" Text="I just laughed so hard that coffee snorted up my nose. I was a bit uncredulous at &quot;launch platform&quot; but &quot;rocket preparation building at Baalbek&quot; and &quot;launch tower&quot; sounds like serious business. Is this meant persiflage that textual interpretation may be *a little* arbitrary? Boats seems like a more probable interpretation. This comment is meant to serve discoverability, because images are hardly accessible to search engines." CreationDate="2020-02-01T08:27:09.403" UserId="6645" />
  <row Id="431" PostId="305" Score="1" Text="At first impulse, I want to say yes, both myths have similar origins, or one drew from the other." CreationDate="2015-05-01T16:25:03.883" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="432" PostId="305" Score="2" Text="I would say they are the same person, to the same extent that they are also [Deucalion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deucalion)." CreationDate="2015-05-01T16:33:16.667" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="433" PostId="305" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore I'm not exactly sure what you are saying, but I'm pretty sure Noah and Ziusudra myths predate Deucalion myths by a thousand years or better." CreationDate="2015-05-01T16:36:30.390" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="436" PostId="305" Score="0" Text="@fredsbend Are you referring to when the myths were recorded? In that ase Ziusudra' tale predates Noah's by about 1000 years, and Noah's tale might have predated Deucalion's by perhaps a couple of centuries. But nothing prevents the events they describe to refer to the same time period." CreationDate="2015-05-01T16:50:08.190" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="438" PostId="305" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore Yes, but I thought we were talking about the relationship between the two myths, which leaves me confused why you'd bring up Deucalion, which comes around a good deal of time later." CreationDate="2015-05-01T17:23:37.880" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="442" PostId="305" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore Okay, I understand now. Yes, that's kind of related." CreationDate="2015-05-01T17:56:25.050" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="451" PostId="312" Score="2" Text="Related: [Adam and Eve vs. Ask and Embla](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/27/adam-and-eve-vs-ask-and-embla)" CreationDate="2015-05-01T20:54:54.303" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="459" PostId="313" Score="1" Text="And this spirit of life *and* a soul view predominates in Christian theology today. The so called [tripartite view of man](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_%28theology%29), where the third part is the body." CreationDate="2015-05-02T05:08:10.310" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="6807" PostId="314" Score="0" Text="I would suggest you read the lost book of Enki it goes into detail of the before and after of the flood." CreationDate="2016-12-31T21:37:45.117" UserId="3304" />
  <row Id="455" PostId="323" Score="0" Text="A certain penile fascination, perhaps?" CreationDate="2015-05-02T03:44:48.023" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="456" PostId="323" Score="1" Text="@fredsbend, or the opposite, if we consider that that the myth explains the resurrection of a _castrated_ god, or a god that after resurrected, will not have such an important piece. It could have been the fingers or toes, the eyes, nose or some organ, but what was left missing is what essentially defines a man. Must be an important reading there!" CreationDate="2015-05-02T03:51:43.347" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="14180" PostId="323" Score="0" Text="Osiris, before Seth murdered and dismembered him, had walked and reigned on Earth among the living. After his resurrection he lives and reigns only in the land of the dead. Could this imperfect resurrection be due to being physically incomplete?" CreationDate="2021-02-04T20:48:40.000" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="14308" PostId="323" Score="0" Text="Could it be that the story symbolizes once more the supreme power of the Goddess - to even have the power to give a man his masculinity back and his capacity to procreate? Osiris becomes the king of the Underworld, guardian of the dead but before through her magic the Goddess created a child who will defy the dark force. She is rising in greater power by becoming the Mother of Horus, reconcile grief within her heart of the loss of her twin soul.&#xA;It depicts the evolution of the feminine archetype from the Maiden ( complete with a man) to the Mother (complete with the child)." CreationDate="2021-03-06T14:26:24.513" UserId="7788" />
  <row Id="1487" PostId="325" Score="0" Text="Thank you for your answer. So, if I understand you correctly, the lost of the penis would force the (magical) union between Osiris and Isis, to conceive a heir-avenger for Osiris: some sort of redeemer figure, who will fight evil. The (magical) union between Osiris and Isis must have further connotations, that I don't get." CreationDate="2015-05-03T01:05:58.000" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="1489" PostId="325" Score="0" Text="The enemy Set should be repulsed. Osiris dismembered cannot do it, nor an emasculated Osiris. An avenger has to be born. The magic has to be invoked to explain the birth of Horus .  Isis could go ( and probably did) with anybody and be with child, but for the succession it has to be a child of Osiris, hence magic is invoked, a child conceived supernaturally." CreationDate="2015-05-03T03:16:59.637" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="14181" PostId="325" Score="0" Text="The Ancient Egyptians were hyper-sensitive to mention of death (except the death of their foreign enemies, which was OK by them.) E.g. the euphemisms used for the assassination of King Amenemhat, and the narrator's own death, in the Tale of Sinuhe. Hence it is quite likely that they would not refer directly to the death of Osiris in surviving texts, but Greek or Roman visitors might learn the story from Egyptians, and not have the same inhibition about referring to it in writing." CreationDate="2021-02-04T20:55:57.373" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="471" PostId="328" Score="5" Text="This is a good answer, nice work" CreationDate="2015-05-02T11:36:55.840" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="15928" PostId="342" Score="0" Text="The least likely outcome is that it just rotted at the bottom of the well. God's eyes are the rarest possible items after all, and this one in particular. I think Mimir was no fool and fished it out as soon as possible, before some frog or salamander beat him to the greatest magical prize of all time. What happened next one wonders? And that's the point. All myth is open ended and its power and continuity comes largely from inviting mysteries for new explorers. There is an as yet untold tale here, ripe for the telling." CreationDate="2022-04-09T22:20:38.070" UserId="9142" />
  <row Id="16224" PostId="342" Score="0" Text="I find it interesting that the three fates of Greek mythology share an eye. There are three Norns which guide our fates. There are some very interesting parallels between the two different cultures." CreationDate="2022-12-26T12:27:57.597" UserId="9861" />
  <row Id="3734" PostId="347" Score="2" Text="T. P. Wiseman in his *Remus* makes a good point that Remus is actually a later creation. There's also growing discontent with the notion of just calling all twins in mythology remnants of the PIE divine twins. Surely, some are, though (the Ashwini/Ašvieniai example is spot on, for one)." CreationDate="2015-09-23T15:03:41.027" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="1488" PostId="360" Score="8" Text="I would like you to note that if you use the Greek letters, it doesn't look that similar: Χείρων vs Χάρων. It's not just a one-letter difference" CreationDate="2015-05-03T02:49:04.090" UserId="86" />
  <row Id="1519" PostId="360" Score="2" Text="Similar (or same) names for different people happens in many other cultures/situations too." CreationDate="2015-05-03T18:25:29.120" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="2696" PostId="360" Score="2" Text="@meneldal in fairness, they still look pretty similar." CreationDate="2015-05-07T10:25:16.237" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="2703" PostId="360" Score="1" Text="@Daft a one letter different versus a two letter difference still deserves to be noted in my opinion," CreationDate="2015-05-07T13:42:46.460" UserId="86" />
  <row Id="2705" PostId="360" Score="0" Text="@meneldal I edited the question to include the Greek names." CreationDate="2015-05-07T14:24:41.017" UserId="10" />
  <row Id="13783" PostId="360" Score="0" Text="@meneldal, it might be one vs. two letters, but it's still only a single vowel sound vs. another.  Compare &quot;Mich**ae**l&quot; and &quot;Mich**e**l&quot;.  Most people would see them as very similar names." CreationDate="2020-08-10T01:09:00.767" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="13792" PostId="360" Score="0" Text="@RayButterworth In that case the similarity isn't accidental; they derive from the same name" CreationDate="2020-08-10T10:53:05.060" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="13793" PostId="360" Score="0" Text="@ba, and that connection is also a potential explanation for the original question.  (I'm not saying that it *is* the explanation.)  My point was that simply saying that the difference is greater than first claimed is not a good argument against there being a connection." CreationDate="2020-08-10T12:01:00.703" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="13813" PostId="360" Score="0" Text="There's also just one phoneme different in &quot;bad&quot; and &quot;bath&quot;, and &quot;I&quot; and &quot;eye&quot; have the same phonemes, but are very different concepts. They're just homonyms, homophones and homographs." CreationDate="2020-08-13T11:52:20.330" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="1525" PostId="361" Score="2" Text="This is a really good question! As far as I know, Ceto and Phorcys were both gods/goddesses, so one might assume that all their offspring were immortal. Then, part of Medusa's punishment from Athena may have been that she would be mortal, unlike the rest of her family. So, all three sisters get a punishment, but Medusa's is worse in that she can be killed. This is, however, pure speculation - I haven't found an authoritative source on this (thus why it's a comment, not an answer)." CreationDate="2015-05-03T23:00:43.060" UserId="26" />
  <row Id="12001" PostId="361" Score="0" Text="Before I started really looking into Greek mythology, I always assumed that Medusa was a mortal unrelated to any gods that just happened to catch Poseidon’s eye, unfortunately. Can’t remember why, though it was probably Clash of the Titans’ fault. I do remember reading about what happened to her years ago, though, and I don’t recall any mention of her parents." CreationDate="2019-10-18T23:03:32.847" UserId="5756" />
  <row Id="1504" PostId="362" Score="0" Text="think also of the eucharist, a way to oneness/identity" CreationDate="2015-05-03T13:11:18.437" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="2732" PostId="362" Score="0" Text="@annav I'm not sure the Eucharist can reasonably be related to mythological gods eating their children. If you have an answer on that, I'd like to see it." CreationDate="2015-05-07T18:51:16.897" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="2741" PostId="362" Score="0" Text="@fredsbend  It is in the same family , imo,  The creator eating his creatures remains God. In the eucharist symbolism the creatures  eating the creator becomes God?  A new and very strong myth as its spread shows." CreationDate="2015-05-08T03:32:13.107" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="2744" PostId="362" Score="0" Text="You're dancing a line between dogma and mythos. One reason I thing what you're saying makes little sense. The eucharistic symbolism does not include &quot;the creatures ... becoming God&quot;. Perhaps [take a look at some of these answers.](http://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/4250/3961) If anything, the eucharistic celebration is about giving/receiving life, not taking/losing it." CreationDate="2015-05-08T05:13:55.780" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="3400" PostId="362" Score="2" Text="Chronos is the not the same as Cronus. Two totally different entities, and any association between the two comes far, far after the eating of young." CreationDate="2015-06-24T22:57:50.030" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7060" PostId="362" Score="0" Text="I wish for a better answer. As mentioned above Chronos and Cronus are not the same gods (although time swallowing everything makes sense). But what about Zeus swallowing Metis. This does not apply at all" CreationDate="2017-02-09T10:18:13.067" UserId="3439" />
  <row Id="11738" PostId="362" Score="0" Text="Language is slippery and constantly evolving.  I don't find the use of a kappa (K)  vs. the use of a chi (X) very compelling or definitive.  Χρόνος vs. Κρόνος.  (Might be more convincing if there was an omega in one vs. an omicron in the other.)  Distinctions of the two don't feel particularly useful, except in reference to textual minutia.  Symbolism is much more relevant. Cronus as &quot;god of the harvest&quot; is a reference to time." CreationDate="2019-07-19T17:00:22.917" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="1498" PostId="364" Score="0" Text="simple logic: a dead person's hands will either have rigor mortis, and cannot be forced to hold a coin, or will be in the after rigor state when everything is  lax and cannot hold a coin. The mouth is always there and a coin can be forced in or put any time before the funeral." CreationDate="2015-05-03T12:42:56.037" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="1499" PostId="364" Score="0" Text="My guess is that putting it in other orifices wouldn't be quite respectful. :D&#xA;(Let me check if I can find the actual reason)" CreationDate="2015-05-03T12:43:15.283" UserId="69" />
  <row Id="1500" PostId="364" Score="0" Text="@annav The dead person doesn't *have* to be physically holding the coin, though - they could've just put it in their coffin, or say a pocket." CreationDate="2015-05-03T12:47:35.997" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="1501" PostId="364" Score="0" Text="well, in the mouth it is not lost easily or misplaced/forgotten where it is, or not know where it is" CreationDate="2015-05-03T12:51:06.743" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="1502" PostId="364" Score="0" Text="@annav On the other hand someone might accidentally swallow it. In any case, obviously there's ways to justify everything in logic, but I'm looking for an explanation from actual mythology." CreationDate="2015-05-03T12:54:46.767" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="1518" PostId="373" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore: I have updated my answer." CreationDate="2015-05-03T18:04:04.480" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="1520" PostId="373" Score="1" Text="Extra kudos for citations." CreationDate="2015-05-03T19:26:02.770" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="2676" PostId="373" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore: ...[whispers] Going to accept my answer? Looks like there aren't any others..." CreationDate="2015-05-07T04:20:59.920" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="2695" PostId="373" Score="0" Text="Oh, I thought we were encouraging waiting till public beta to accept answers. I'm happy to accept this early, though." CreationDate="2015-05-07T10:06:52.610" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="1507" PostId="374" Score="3" Text="+1 Nice effort! Sealing the deceased's mouth seems like the answer." CreationDate="2015-05-03T14:38:58.850" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="1508" PostId="374" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore Thanks! Some of it was conjecture, but I think that Stevens' book provides better evidence." CreationDate="2015-05-03T14:39:46.103" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="7724" PostId="374" Score="0" Text="Great insight on wordplay in Apuleius!  [The latin text](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2008.01.0502%3Abook%3D6%3Achapter%3D18) reads: &quot;sed moriens pauper viaticum debet quaerere, et aes si forte prae manu non fuerit, nemo eum expirare patietur&quot;  where &quot;breathe his last&quot;&#xA; is a very faithful translation of [expirare](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=expirare&amp;la=la&amp;can=expirare0&amp;prior=eum&amp;d=Perseus:text:2008.01.0502:book=6:chapter=18&amp;i=1)." CreationDate="2017-06-11T23:09:35.513" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16360" PostId="383" Score="0" Text="Depending on your religious modality I would recommend that you journey on this question and find that answer. In many different paths of shamanism, we believe that our ancestors and lineage come from a long ago past and many iterations of civilizations. Ultinately all are connected to source, this source is the creator of which all peoples come from. When you have a question about lineage, your history or an important question, you find the answer in journeywork as a shaman and connecting with your guides and helping spirits." CreationDate="2023-05-16T20:39:17.730" UserId="10246" />
  <row Id="1545" PostId="400" Score="3" Text="http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/136/are-questions-about-who-worshipped-what-on-topic" CreationDate="2015-05-04T15:01:03.437" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="1579" PostId="411" Score="1" Text="Don't forget [Achelois](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achelois). . ." CreationDate="2015-05-04T21:55:26.813" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="6305" PostId="412" Score="0" Text="From a metaphoric standpoint, Athena appropriates the power of the Gorgon, specifically the power to numb her enemies with fear. That is the significance of adding the Gorgon's head to her armor." CreationDate="2016-09-08T16:53:37.340" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14531" PostId="414" Score="0" Text="Many sources state different things. But it is generally believed that she is still within Zeus' head, helping him make wise decisions." CreationDate="2021-06-12T18:42:30.827" UserId="7622" />
  <row Id="1626" PostId="415" Score="0" Text="​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Not entirely sure the Atlas Perseus killed is the Titan. From what I remember, it was a mortal king that had somehow insulted Perseus in the past. What's the source of your quote?" CreationDate="2015-05-05T18:25:17.610" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="1627" PostId="415" Score="0" Text="@Yannis That quote is also from an Metamorphoses translation, that's why I didn't cite again, sorry." CreationDate="2015-05-05T18:26:11.893" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="1629" PostId="415" Score="0" Text="​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Ah, yes, since Ovid tells us that Atlas was the son of Iapetus, he's clearly referring to the Titan." CreationDate="2015-05-05T18:31:56.137" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3493" PostId="415" Score="0" Text="You can an immortal being into stone?!" CreationDate="2015-07-15T00:05:08.783" UserId="534" />
  <row Id="6303" PostId="415" Score="0" Text="Terrify can be understood as a metaphor for turning to stone, as in you freeze up in fear.  (@durron597 The Latin text uses the word [&quot;terreat&quot;](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0029%3Abook%3D4%3Acard%3D706) so &quot;terrify&quot; is a direct rendering.)" CreationDate="2016-09-08T16:41:52.687" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="2665" PostId="416" Score="0" Text="So no sources indicate she may have escaped?" CreationDate="2015-05-07T02:07:43.417" UserId="43" />
  <row Id="2698" PostId="416" Score="0" Text="@Mr.Bultitude None that I know of." CreationDate="2015-05-07T12:12:32.220" UserId="155" />
  <row Id="6298" PostId="416" Score="0" Text="@Mr. Bulltide  The second option is the way you should look at it, as Zeus subsuming Metis and thus gaining that attribute for himself.  (i.e. it's a metaphor, and Metis' name means wisdom.)  Her attribute also went into their offspring, Athena." CreationDate="2016-09-07T20:51:56.157" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14710" PostId="416" Score="0" Text="In Greek mythology deities can't die. Metis continued living inside Zeus just as Zeus' siblings lived inside Kronos until Zeus freed them." CreationDate="2021-11-20T19:25:28.613" UserId="5257" />
  <row Id="1539" PostId="417" Score="0" Text="Thanks, is a good answer. +1 for now, I'll let some time to see if some else comes with another answer and then I'll mark one of the answers as accepted. Thanks again." CreationDate="2015-05-04T12:56:14.713" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="1602" PostId="417" Score="0" Text="@Deion -  Sure. Far as I'm concerned, you shouldn't feel pressured to accept at all if you aren't yet satisfied. Certainly won't hurt my feelings, at any rate." CreationDate="2015-05-05T01:15:22.423" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3638" PostId="419" Score="2" Text="Just my guess but might it have something to do with becoming demented? As Odin is mostly depicted as a wise old man. It's not uncommon for old people to lose their thought, memory and mind." CreationDate="2015-08-31T15:52:16.263" UserId="703" />
  <row Id="3893" PostId="419" Score="0" Text="I love how this question got downvoted such a long time after it was posted, and there were no other downvotes at the time. @downvoter, would you care to say why it is you downvoted?" CreationDate="2015-10-31T09:18:29.490" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="4472" PostId="419" Score="0" Text="Hi naltipar, I'm going to assume I was the downvoter. Thing is, I didn't mean to downvote it! I was thinking about editing it so I can upvote it. Can you explain why you have `Memory` and `Thought` instead of just Memory and Thought? If the formatting is changed, I can go back to upvoting it and all will be right in the world. :)" CreationDate="2016-02-22T15:34:11.500" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14741" PostId="434" Score="0" Text="How this explains anything?" CreationDate="2021-11-27T19:11:14.767" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="14743" PostId="440" Score="0" Text="12 hours in a day is somewhat arbitrary, but 12 months in a year is a natural phenomenon. The year is defined by the translational motion of the Earth, and the month is defined by the phases of the moon." CreationDate="2021-11-27T21:08:35.270" UserId="7845" />
  <row Id="1546" PostId="441" Score="4" Text="This question is partially intended as an experiment to figure out what qualifies as &quot;too broad&quot;, as prompted by [this meta question](https://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/134/why-is-this-question-too-broad). Like the question discussed there, this one's &quot;target area&quot; includes potentially every culture on the planet, but I believe this one has a slightly more specific criterion." CreationDate="2015-05-04T15:01:51.370" UserId="87" />
  <row Id="1548" PostId="441" Score="0" Text="Would Christianity count? In one eschatological tradition, true Christians are raptured, then return to (a new) Earth with Jesus Christ. They don't exactly repopulate though; they re-inhabit." CreationDate="2015-05-04T15:07:15.963" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="1549" PostId="441" Score="1" Text="Another possibility - if Christianity counts - would be Noah; would flood myths be appropriate?" CreationDate="2015-05-04T15:09:42.097" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="1550" PostId="441" Score="0" Text="@El'endiaStarman I was under the impression the Biblical &quot;New Jerusalem&quot; (or whatever it was called) was more like an eternal afterlife rather than someone surviving on the existing Earth. But I could be wrong." CreationDate="2015-05-04T15:09:44.050" UserId="87" />
  <row Id="1551" PostId="441" Score="0" Text="@HDE226868 Good point...perhaps even this question is &quot;too broad&quot;." CreationDate="2015-05-04T15:10:33.100" UserId="87" />
  <row Id="1552" PostId="441" Score="0" Text="...ACTUALLY...I just realized that the eschatological tradition presented in the Left Behind books has a few people *not* raptured that survive through the 7-year Tribulation and get to live in the New Earth/New Jerusalem. They don't reproduce after the 1000-year reign, however." CreationDate="2015-05-04T15:13:08.437" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="1557" PostId="441" Score="0" Text="I provided an answer to help with the experiment. Even if the question is &quot;too broad&quot; I think that it is answerable with a couple examples. I provided the typical &quot;Gods send flood. Only chosen survive&quot;, but there may be other examples different than floods that depict the &quot;a handful of chosen rebuild civilization&quot; myth." CreationDate="2015-05-04T16:02:20.277" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="1556" PostId="448" Score="4" Text="\forall n \in \mathbb{n}, age_of_merlin &gt; n" CreationDate="2015-05-04T15:59:30.220" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="1562" PostId="448" Score="4" Text="What would be a satisfactory answer like for this question? We can't expect &quot;351 years old&quot;. Something more like &quot;he was born 3 generations before this or that event, so we could estimate...&quot;?" CreationDate="2015-05-04T16:34:40.700" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="1565" PostId="448" Score="3" Text="@Deion An estimate like that would be perfectly fine." CreationDate="2015-05-04T16:55:55.697" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="1611" PostId="463" Score="1" Text="Wikipedia [jotunn article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6tunn) says &quot;anglicized jotunn or jotun ... often glossed as giant or ettin&quot;.  I'd definitely buy jotunn and ettin sharing a common linguistic lineage, as well.  Sounds rather like the difference is &quot;not much&quot;." CreationDate="2015-05-05T02:57:29.727" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="1590" PostId="467" Score="0" Text="+1 for Merlin building Stonehenge. I wish I'd heard of that sooner." CreationDate="2015-05-04T22:21:24.497" UserId="87" />
  <row Id="1591" PostId="467" Score="0" Text="@Ixrec Yeah, it's interesting. It seems to me like Monmouth was keen on linking it to Camelot etc to explain away the mystery. It's a nice way to link two odd British myths :)" CreationDate="2015-05-04T22:23:47.740" UserId="38" />
  <row Id="1574" PostId="468" Score="1" Text="Thanks! Can you add in the rest of the quote, for a bit more context? My only concern, though, is that Geoffrey's account doesn't cover Merlin's later life in accordance with the writings I gave, from what I've read." CreationDate="2015-05-04T21:37:45.963" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="1612" PostId="474" Score="0" Text="Where's the quote from?" CreationDate="2015-05-05T06:49:14.033" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="1613" PostId="474" Score="1" Text="http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/372/how-are-the-two-humans-selected-to-repopulate-the-world-after-ragnar%C3%B6k?rq=1 has the same quote. It's from wikipedia." CreationDate="2015-05-05T07:11:50.677" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="2748" PostId="475" Score="3" Text="I didn't realize GRR Martin wrote most of Norse Myths :)" CreationDate="2015-05-08T10:28:42.673" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="1595" PostId="477" Score="3" Text="This is another &quot;experimental&quot; question. This time the motivation came from chat: https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/21461087#21461087" CreationDate="2015-05-04T23:12:08.783" UserId="87" />
  <row Id="1599" PostId="478" Score="3" Text="I'm honestly shocked that this is in the original mythos. Thanks for digging that up." CreationDate="2015-05-05T00:19:28.550" UserId="87" />
  <row Id="1624" PostId="489" Score="2" Text="Thanks for your answer. +1 for now and I'll [accept soon](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/q/6/171). So, if I understood you correctly, there are many kinds of giants, frost giants and jotuns among them. Main common traits for them would be strength, power or being element-based (not physical appearance or even good-evil character). Trolls would be completely different creatures unrelated to giants." CreationDate="2015-05-05T15:03:48.227" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="1634" PostId="490" Score="0" Text="The related question: http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/309/in-ancient-egypt-what-did-the-ba-and-the-ka-represent?rq=1" CreationDate="2015-05-05T20:16:10.737" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="1631" PostId="492" Score="0" Text="That's strange.  I've only heard of the third version, about accidentally killing a friend.  But if any of the other version are true, then who would the Palladium statue  depict?" CreationDate="2015-05-05T18:43:58.187" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="1632" PostId="492" Score="0" Text="I've edited my answer in order to address your comment. More than one interpretations might be true, at least that's what I have in mind." CreationDate="2015-05-05T18:55:28.653" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="1633" PostId="493" Score="0" Text="An interesting related reading : reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/religion/body_and_soul.htm" CreationDate="2015-05-05T19:11:34.907" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="2813" PostId="495" Score="0" Text="Actually, the differences in snake distribution would actually go a long way in explaining differences that each Serpent creation myth has." CreationDate="2015-05-11T10:15:50.867" UserDisplayName="user124" />
  <row Id="2639" PostId="499" Score="3" Text="Mwindo and his father are family, so it should be normal for them not to kill each other. Now if my brother-in-law, a mighty king, wants the boy dead, I could imagine that I do not want to help the boy, let the boy into my house or in any way be associated with the boy. Family or not, his own father tried to kill him so he's _unwanted_ family_ (and possibly dangerous to be around!). Of course, later on, Mwindo takes revenge with the help of his uncles so family ties _do_ matter." CreationDate="2015-05-06T07:57:41.880" UserId="119" />
  <row Id="2669" PostId="499" Score="0" Text="@oerkelens I didn't ask the question, but I would probably upvote that comment if it were an answer if you had a citation to back it up." CreationDate="2015-05-07T02:25:41.077" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="2683" PostId="499" Score="0" Text="@durron597: I only had Wikipedia to tell me the outline of the story, I'm not familiar enough with this area of mythology to judge the accuracy and trustworthiness of sources. That is why I just left it as a comment :)" CreationDate="2015-05-07T08:12:48.013" UserId="119" />
  <row Id="2640" PostId="500" Score="3" Text="If you believe the local legend, the grail is still in Britain.  It was found in the Chalice Well in Glastonbury and is now kept in Shapwick." CreationDate="2015-05-06T09:02:02.763" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="2634" PostId="506" Score="0" Text="It's not in the Popol Vuh, the source was talking about a different myth and comparing it to the popol vuh." CreationDate="2015-05-06T02:29:22.120" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2636" PostId="506" Score="0" Text="@Christofian: Which myth then?" CreationDate="2015-05-06T02:39:18.080" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="16583" PostId="506" Score="0" Text="I know this post was from a long time ago, but I've been looking for similar stories. Since the sun stood still a whole day, there must be some stories from elsewhere in the world of the same event. I was thinking, though, that since the sun stood still in the middle-east, that other parts of the world would experience darkness for an entire day, with the sun never rising that day." CreationDate="2024-01-03T19:24:01.347" UserId="10901" />
  <row Id="2646" PostId="510" Score="1" Text="Could you quote from the texts you are discussing? It would add a lot of context to this question if it included the quote from Malory, and it would be great if you linked to the source that discusses the monks of Glastonbury Abbey" CreationDate="2015-05-06T18:46:37.237" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2735" PostId="510" Score="0" Text="Can you cite anything to show that Excalibur was returned to its lake of origin? It doesn't seem like Bedievere was travelling very far - Arthur was dying." CreationDate="2015-05-07T23:54:40.223" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="2642" PostId="512" Score="2" Text="Oh, so this is *yet another* thing that Clash of the Titans got wrong" CreationDate="2015-05-06T12:57:05.923" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="2648" PostId="516" Score="0" Text="I'll answer this when I get back, but I'm excited that you're reading the Mabinogion." CreationDate="2015-05-06T18:55:21.770" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2657" PostId="516" Score="0" Text="@Christofian It's absolutely fabulous. Part of me is tempted to learn Welsh just to try to read the original, because there are cases where translation misses some of the points. But it's great; I just finished the first branch," CreationDate="2015-05-06T21:10:11.417" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="2727" PostId="517" Score="1" Text="What kind of an answer would be acceptable for a &quot;no&quot;? Positive (e.g. an explicit notion in the myth that nobody sans Odin gained the knowledge)? Negative (that analysis of the myths indicates no mentions of anyone else gaining the knowledge)? Contextual (analysis of how runes associated with Odin in historical context)?" CreationDate="2015-05-07T16:54:19.487" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="2728" PostId="517" Score="0" Text="I was thinking about that too. I'll go with the &quot;negative&quot;: there is no other being &quot;God, giant, hero, etc. who **learned** the runes (by any mean). I think that the &quot;positive&quot; approach says that only Odin gained knowledge *on that myth*. That's why I was wondering if there are other myths in which other characters try to do the same (or are even taught by Odin himself). I don't think that references can be provided for a &quot;negative no&quot; answer, and I don't expect one. That answer could be accepted until someone proves otherwise with a &quot;yes&quot;" CreationDate="2015-05-07T17:06:46.493" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="2729" PostId="517" Score="0" Text="I could be wrong but IIRC Odin **did** teach humans the runes." CreationDate="2015-05-07T17:27:24.427" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="2731" PostId="517" Score="0" Text="@DVK, you mean, specific humans? If that is in a myth would be a suitable answer." CreationDate="2015-05-07T18:44:42.940" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="2733" PostId="517" Score="1" Text="I think it was more like non-specific humans (rather like Prometheus teaching fire), but it's been a couple of decades since I saw that text and I may be mis-remembering (and definitely don't have a cite). Having said that, your last paragraph seems specifically interested in learning runes via the Odin method, NOT via regular scholarship." CreationDate="2015-05-07T20:52:48.763" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="2740" PostId="517" Score="0" Text="@DVK, Thank you for pointing that out. When I said &quot;repeat this feat&quot; I meant something broader, like &quot;this feat of learning the runes&quot;. Not necessarily by using the same method, but a similar one (another sacrifice) or maybe something completely different. Is it read that way, like &quot;doing **exactly** the same thing Odin did and hanged himself/herself from Yggdrasil&quot;? If so, maybe I should edit and clarify..." CreationDate="2015-05-08T02:16:52.937" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="3098" PostId="520" Score="1" Text="This article may be helpful in answering the question, as it analyzes the nature of Utgard-Loki and his relationship to Asgard-Loki: http://www.norsemyth.org/2013/01/questioning-loki-part-one.html" CreationDate="2015-05-23T00:51:57.150" UserId="174" />
  <row Id="2649" PostId="523" Score="0" Text="Great question! I didn't know about this creature at all. I took the liberty of editing the question with a reference to this not-so-well-known creature. Please, feel free to rollback if you don't like this change." CreationDate="2015-05-06T19:35:43.970" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="2654" PostId="523" Score="1" Text="Perhaps Medusa being Cacus mother can be traced to [John Lemprière's &quot;Bibliotheca Classica&quot;](https://books.google.com/books?id=b0UQAAAAYAAJ&amp;pg=RA1-PT92&amp;lpg=RA1-PT92&amp;dq=cacus+medusa&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=wFcKXaJ44v&amp;sig=4liFtGyFdblzUZdmArH40CMbyRw&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ei=0XtKVf-NCYyEsAXSroCoBw&amp;ved=0CB8Q6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&amp;q=cacus%20medusa&amp;f=false)?" CreationDate="2015-05-06T20:41:37.297" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3481" PostId="523" Score="0" Text="That link (the one in the question, not Lemprière's) is now broken." CreationDate="2015-07-11T19:01:50.407" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="10366" PostId="523" Score="0" Text="More importantly how and why would you try to have a child with medusa?" CreationDate="2018-04-11T05:53:39.243" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="2658" PostId="526" Score="0" Text="_Especially since, as a Gorgon, Medusa was a Daughter of Phorcys and his sister Ceto, ancient Cthonic deities_, does this mean she can't have children?" CreationDate="2015-05-06T21:13:03.193" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="2660" PostId="526" Score="1" Text="​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​@Daft No, it means any children she would have had with Vulcan wouldn't be human (or half-human), as neither she nor Vulcan were human." CreationDate="2015-05-06T21:41:45.137" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3480" PostId="526" Score="1" Text="Could Virgil's description of Cacus be just that- a physical description? So that Cacus might still be the son of Medusa and Hephastus, but Virgil calls him half-human as a description of his body?" CreationDate="2015-07-11T14:34:02.837" UserDisplayName="user528" />
  <row Id="10365" PostId="526" Score="0" Text="Calling Palaemonius a &quot;monster&quot; just because he was &quot;crippled in his feet&quot; sounds a bit harsh." CreationDate="2018-04-11T01:13:55.633" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="14478" PostId="530" Score="0" Text="For there to be a connection between the Bible and a South American civilization, wouldn't it make more sense to find a case in which the sun *didn't* rise for a long time (because it was &quot;stuck&quot; in the other side of the world)?" CreationDate="2021-06-06T09:37:13.667" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="2673" PostId="531" Score="0" Text="Of course physics as we know it cannot allow for stopping the earth in its tracks in any way except in falling into the sun:losing radial velocity drastically. If this happened, from asteroid impact for example, there would be a lot more dire upheavals than the sun standing still , to remain as a mythic  description.." CreationDate="2015-05-07T04:04:19.497" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="2674" PostId="531" Score="1" Text="@annav: Of course this event is not possible according to the laws of physics as we know it. This is Mythology.SE after all..." CreationDate="2015-05-07T04:13:21.953" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="2677" PostId="531" Score="1" Text="well, the flood for example has historical basis, is true according to science/physics because there has been geological evidence for large floods and the physics mechanisms that can be involved are not totally destructive . So myths can have a historical point where they started, and in this case common to all cultures. This cannot be true for a stopping the angular velocity of the earth ." CreationDate="2015-05-07T04:29:13.770" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="2678" PostId="531" Score="0" Text="sorry for that, it is angular velocity that has to be stopped ( age tells :)  ) the radial would increase because the earth would be falling into the sun" CreationDate="2015-05-07T04:32:21.473" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="2700" PostId="531" Score="1" Text="@annav: Considering the Joshua version, we're talking about an omnipotent God who created the universe. Stopping the rotation of the earth for one full day with no ill effects is peanuts compared to that. Sure, there are physical considerations, but when it comes to mythology, we're usually talking about forces more powerful and/or beyond mundane physical laws. I don't really see much of a point in discussing the physical aspects of the events in the myths." CreationDate="2015-05-07T12:34:20.893" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="2701" PostId="531" Score="0" Text="I hope my example with the flood would clarify this for you. Myths often have a sperm of reality. even current urban myths." CreationDate="2015-05-07T13:05:59.147" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="13936" PostId="531" Score="0" Text="While not significantly changing the difference between the two dates, there are views that date Joshua to the end of the 13th century or the beginning of the 12th." CreationDate="2020-10-12T07:53:03.020" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="15873" PostId="531" Score="1" Text="@annav Possible physical explanations depend very much on the precise meaning of &quot;stood still&quot;. I remember an argument that the original text (not the English translation) used words that just mean that the sun &quot;stopped doing what it normally does&quot;, which could mean &quot;stop on its path&quot;, but also just &quot;stop shining&quot;. In that case, it could've been anything that darkened the sun, like an eclipse or volcanic ash in the air." CreationDate="2022-02-15T23:16:23.133" UserId="6880" />
  <row Id="11943" PostId="532" Score="0" Text="In his Iliad, Homer makes a pun between Hera's wide-eyed bewilderment, and her association with certain totemic animals." CreationDate="2019-09-27T11:37:12.607" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="2743" PostId="533" Score="2" Text="It is probably a memory from the variations of ice in the region. In ice ages a lot of the water of the ocean is tied up in ice and the whole  area was one land mass. As the ice melted the waters would come back and called &quot;rivers&quot;.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles" CreationDate="2015-05-08T03:57:01.470" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="2747" PostId="533" Score="2" Text="@annav I don't think that really makes any sense... I'd guess the most recent ice age would have ended a significant amount of time before this story was written." CreationDate="2015-05-08T10:28:30.833" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="2749" PostId="533" Score="2" Text="written most probably, but the link gives ice 5000 years agoo, and mythologies start orally" CreationDate="2015-05-08T10:31:16.000" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="2769" PostId="533" Score="1" Text="@annav The stories are generally given as relatively recent (obviously pre-1000 AD), but not 5000 years ago." CreationDate="2015-05-08T17:41:49.967" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="2804" PostId="533" Score="2" Text="Many people believe that the Noahs Ark myth is based on the black sea flooding somewhere 7000-5000 BC, so why shouldn't this tale have it's roots in a flooding from 5000-4000 BC?" CreationDate="2015-05-10T20:29:07.000" UserId="226" />
  <row Id="8642" PostId="533" Score="0" Text="@annav It is unlikely because the [Celts](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts) couldn't have arrived in the British Isles any earlier than 500 BC, millennia after Ice Age sea level rise separated them from the Continent." CreationDate="2017-11-22T02:19:43.003" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="2672" PostId="542" Score="3" Text="there is also Athena called glaucopis  , from &quot;glaux&quot;, the owl , her &quot;familiar&quot; animal, all through homeric works . same root as glaucoma." CreationDate="2015-05-07T03:56:45.210" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="2671" PostId="546" Score="0" Text="Oh no! A TVTropes link! Mythology.SE shall become a ghost town!" CreationDate="2015-05-07T03:34:38.247" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="2920" PostId="546" Score="1" Text="My personal favorite from the list in questions is &quot;Enough, son of Too Much.&quot;" CreationDate="2015-05-14T10:25:35.243" UserId="150" />
  <row Id="2734" PostId="587" Score="1" Text="I cannot find any reason to explain Súaltam's immunity - although he didn't seem to have done much, so perhaps he wasn't immune after all. I'll edit it in if I find anything more concrete." CreationDate="2015-05-07T23:52:05.457" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="2736" PostId="588" Score="1" Text="They did just defeat the Irish, so maybe not that threatening compared to the [big blue blob](https://www.google.com/search?site=&amp;tbm=isch&amp;q=big+blue+blob)?" CreationDate="2015-05-08T01:46:53.163" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="2737" PostId="588" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore That had been (and still is) my theory, but I couldn't find anything to back it up." CreationDate="2015-05-08T01:47:49.597" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="2875" PostId="588" Score="1" Text="Here's more information about the head (probably more information than you want), but it still doesn't explain why it faces the way it does: http://www.mabinogi.net/sections/ch%203/The_Living_Head.pdf" CreationDate="2015-05-13T00:28:13.850" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2746" PostId="597" Score="7" Text="Opportunity to do some networking with Valkyries?" CreationDate="2015-05-08T09:57:10.537" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="2750" PostId="597" Score="0" Text="Before reading this question, I was of the impression that Hades only left the Underworld once to visit Olympus, I can't remember why though... I don't think he really visited battlefields in the same way a Valkyrie would have. Would be interesting if he did though." CreationDate="2015-05-08T12:43:15.963" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="2751" PostId="597" Score="0" Text="@Daft In one instance, Hades went to Olympus to complain about Asclepius healing too many people (and depriving Hades of their souls). See: [When did Hades leave the Underworld?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/496/57)." CreationDate="2015-05-08T12:50:13.947" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="15941" PostId="597" Score="0" Text="&quot;This interpretation, however, feels to me like an attempt to attach Christian symbolism to the story.&quot;  Great perception and good filtering. Kudos." CreationDate="2022-04-30T13:13:26.520" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="2895" PostId="598" Score="1" Text="I know that most of Homer's stories have been skewed into something more brutal. Let me see." CreationDate="2015-05-13T14:15:54.453" UserId="65" />
  <row Id="3399" PostId="598" Score="2" Text="Answered, but you may want to reframe the question ever so slightly to reflect a focus on this Pindar passage. I can answer a more general question, but I think that would be better spent on a separate question from this. Let me know if you'd like me to do that. Cheers." CreationDate="2015-06-24T22:53:46.350" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="2765" PostId="599" Score="0" Text="I think this is a good question based on [the precedent here](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/463/what-is-the-difference-between-giants-jotuns-and-trolls-in-norse-mythology)" CreationDate="2015-05-08T16:05:23.097" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="2766" PostId="599" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore I've only few drawings which are circulating around the net based on the vimana texts, but this would count towards the answer it-self, but without own interpretation it wouldn't be a good answer. You can easily Google these images by their names, but I don't know how credible are these images." CreationDate="2015-05-08T16:10:44.150" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="2850" PostId="599" Score="4" Text="According to the works of Desmond Leslie in the 1950s, they are different types of craft.  As you suggest: military, transport, etc.  It is a long time since I read the book so I can't give a definitive answer as to which is which, but try looking him up." CreationDate="2015-05-12T18:31:51.523" UserId="56" />
  <row Id="2768" PostId="602" Score="0" Text="I *had* been planning on answering this question, but you answered better than I would have. +1." CreationDate="2015-05-08T17:14:23.990" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="2774" PostId="605" Score="0" Text="http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2203-azazel could help, especially if you can track down the references (see the bottom)." CreationDate="2015-05-09T00:48:49.853" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="2776" PostId="605" Score="1" Text="The name Azazel is typically associated with a demon though it could be a place in this instance. Every footnote I've seen on those verses (it's also in verse 26) says that we don't really know." CreationDate="2015-05-09T08:28:56.303" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="2777" PostId="605" Score="0" Text="I think what the ceremony means is a little to close to dogma and not too much about mythology. Among the various Jews and Christians, there's probably a number of interpretations." CreationDate="2015-05-09T08:36:21.643" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="4619" PostId="606" Score="0" Text="It's certainly true that the membership of the 12 fluctated: Hestia had to make way for Dionysus, for example. I agree that it's hard to know why 12: were there six gods and six goddesses to begin with? But the number seems to have stuck, while the actual god/desses changed." CreationDate="2016-03-25T14:37:07.100" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="14164" PostId="606" Score="0" Text="I do not think its hard to know why there are 12. It is definitely related to the number of months in a year, which in turn comes from the (approximate) number of lunar cycles in a solar cycle. It is the same reason why there are 12 constellations in the zodiac." CreationDate="2021-01-26T17:41:25.833" UserId="7660" />
  <row Id="2775" PostId="608" Score="2" Text="I think this kinda related to http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/10/f%C3%B3lkvangr-and-valhalla" CreationDate="2015-05-09T07:57:42.170" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="2954" PostId="608" Score="0" Text="SMBC, as usual, has the answer: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3673" CreationDate="2015-05-17T02:39:17.437" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="3196" PostId="609" Score="0" Text="I don't know what those brush-like things that look like tail-ends above the fox in the picture on the right are, or what they are meant to represent (rice stalks, perhaps?), but by my count there happen to be 9 of them. Still, I'm tempted to give a +1 just for the clever application of the gamer word &quot;powerleveling&quot;. :-)" CreationDate="2015-06-04T16:24:17.333" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="3197" PostId="609" Score="0" Text="@T.E.D. It's generic roadside vegetation, same as that whole row of brushes below the fox." CreationDate="2015-06-04T17:34:44.137" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3595" PostId="609" Score="0" Text="I don't understand why the Nihon Ryoiki was used to cite the claim that fox worship predates Chinese cultural contact, since the book is about *Buddhist* supernatural events, and includes the yagan which almost certainly passed to Japan via China." CreationDate="2015-08-16T04:10:50.240" UserId="501" />
  <row Id="3596" PostId="609" Score="0" Text="@MarchHo No, it was cited to show that fox worship is ancient in Japan.  No written records in Japan predate culture contact with China, so my point was that this reaches Japanese prehistory. However, the *Nihon Ryōik* is not &quot;about Buddhist supernatural events&quot;, but rather a collection of Japanese *setsuwa* told from a Buddhist perspective, since monks were the ones who first wrote down these oral traditions. The term *yakan* is of course imported, but Buddhist monks used it simply as a name for fox." CreationDate="2015-08-16T08:38:36.297" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="2795" PostId="618" Score="3" Text="This is the last experimental question I wanted to ask before we go public. [Credit for the inspiration goes to Semaphore](https://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/140/are-fictional-mythologies-on-topic#comment258_143). I'm going to self-answer this one to prevent any (very understandable) assumptions that Pastafarian questions are inherently unanswerable. I'm hoping the votes on this can serve as a poll of whether or not Pastafarianism should be on-topic, assuming everyone tries as hard as I just did to make the question and answer decent." CreationDate="2015-05-09T19:33:54.897" UserId="87" />
  <row Id="3351" PostId="618" Score="0" Text="I think you mean religious *sattire*." CreationDate="2015-06-18T21:28:35.977" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="2805" PostId="620" Score="10" Text="While I agree that they are etymologically unrelated, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they are mythologically related. As far as I know (though I could very well be wrong), Ask and Embla are first attested in the Edda, which is from the 13th century, and generally shows traces of Christian influence, and I wouldn't even be too surprised if the first letters were &quot;chosen&quot; to match." CreationDate="2015-05-10T20:40:41.080" UserId="227" />
  <row Id="2796" PostId="621" Score="2" Text="+1 for making me laugh out loud several times." CreationDate="2015-05-09T21:28:44.257" UserId="87" />
  <row Id="2797" PostId="621" Score="2" Text="This makes me wonder what pornographic material of today will be myths of the distant future... o_o" CreationDate="2015-05-09T21:39:01.487" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="2852" PostId="622" Score="1" Text="The lunar cycle is 29.53 days . Maybe that is how it started, as six was too small and eight too large.,Each of the 4 lunar phases lasts approximately 7 days (~7.4 days)," CreationDate="2015-05-12T19:17:07.010" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="2869" PostId="622" Score="0" Text="Excelllent point, @Annav. I need to research if there is any proof of that!" CreationDate="2015-05-12T23:02:57.630" UserId="139" />
  <row Id="2877" PostId="622" Score="1" Text="Add to that that mature women needed to count the days till their next period ( or know they are pregnant). If they had a system of drawing lines somewhere to count the days the correlation with ~7 would appear if they noted the moon phases too.." CreationDate="2015-05-13T04:44:45.523" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="2878" PostId="622" Score="0" Text="You make very good points. I still need time to read to get sources dealing with that, but if you have some please share @annav" CreationDate="2015-05-13T04:46:14.820" UserId="139" />
  <row Id="2879" PostId="622" Score="0" Text="I must have read such but very long ago so cannot give references. more: the average interval from period to period for women is four weeks, which means the same phase of the moon, so they would be watching the phases." CreationDate="2015-05-13T04:49:46.243" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="3900" PostId="622" Score="0" Text="I just answered a similar question &quot;What is the origin of the mythology around the number 7&quot;. I'm of the opinion that the likeliest first source for the significance of 7 in ancient times is the universality of astronomy/astrology across cultures which included observation of the classical &quot;planets&quot;; visible anywhere and seven in number." CreationDate="2015-11-02T15:21:50.457" UserId="888" />
  <row Id="2803" PostId="623" Score="1" Text="But 6 really is a perfect number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_number - a definition that was known at least since Euklid 300 BC - and 7 isn't. Can you elaborate on Pope Gregory's arguments for considering 7 &quot;perfect&quot;?" CreationDate="2015-05-10T19:58:59.040" UserId="226" />
  <row Id="2809" PostId="623" Score="0" Text="@Sumyrda I will try to elaborate on this point. Indeed, 6 **is** a perfect number while 7 is mathematically not." CreationDate="2015-05-10T23:04:11.887" UserId="139" />
  <row Id="3931" PostId="623" Score="0" Text="All numbers up to 14 were considered magical at some point, and many numbers after that, too. The answer (and the question) is backwards: seven was magical, and then it was assigned to things like the Sabbath day or hour divisions. In Babylon, it was 6 and 12, in China and India, it's 8, etc." CreationDate="2015-11-09T14:59:41.413" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3953" PostId="623" Score="0" Text="Triple 6 is probably not a valid interpretation of the 666 in revelation, as the original was written in Greek so the visual of &quot;three sixes&quot; would not be there. It would be a numerical value totalling six hundred sixty six." CreationDate="2015-11-23T02:06:12.143" UserId="945" />
  <row Id="2800" PostId="626" Score="0" Text="Good find. I'm not sure if I can accept an answer with only one source / opinion on such a contentious issue, but I'll certainly upvote it." CreationDate="2015-05-10T05:25:37.180" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="2801" PostId="626" Score="0" Text="@durron597 - Frankly, I agree.  It's nowhere near a comprehensive answer, but no way am I going to attempt *that*, and it seemed interesting enough to to be worth an answer." CreationDate="2015-05-10T06:02:14.220" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="2802" PostId="627" Score="0" Text="​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​This was inspired from a similar question on History.SE: [Did parties of adventurers actually exist?](http://history.stackexchange.com/q/22686/739). I realize it may be a bit broad, but since we are at the defining stages of the site, I decided to go for it." CreationDate="2015-05-10T15:47:46.843" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="2970" PostId="627" Score="1" Text="Besides adventuring parties, ancient epics have stories about noblemen offering valuable rewards for quests; as well as long accounts of loots from the fallen enemies that the heroes got from fallen enemies and how they divide them." CreationDate="2015-05-17T17:34:16.823" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="6770" PostId="628" Score="0" Text="You said it was known in Homeric times.  Do you know where in the Illiad or Odyssey it's mentioned?" CreationDate="2016-12-21T06:51:29.893" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="6771" PostId="628" Score="0" Text="&quot;One seafaring ship alone has passed thereby, that Argo famed of all, on her voyage from Aeetes, and even her the wave would speedily have dashed there against the great crags, had not Here sent her through, for that Jason was dear to her.&quot; - [Odyssey, Book 12](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0012.tlg002.perseus-eng1:12.36-12.72) @KeshavSrinivasan" CreationDate="2016-12-21T10:34:17.283" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="2806" PostId="629" Score="0" Text="@HDE226868: Is this retagging really right? Elves are typically Germanic creatures rather than Celtic, and while I arrived to the question via &quot;King Arthur&quot;, I don't think there's anything intrinsically Arthurian about the question as it stands." CreationDate="2015-05-10T21:23:26.010" UserId="227" />
  <row Id="2807" PostId="629" Score="0" Text="You can roll it back, if you want; I'm not fully acquainted with the subject matter. I would argue that [tag:arthurian] fits because of the subject matter; I'm less sure about [tag:germanic]. Perhaps I was wrong about that." CreationDate="2015-05-10T21:25:57.387" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="2808" PostId="629" Score="0" Text="I rolled back the edit because you weren't 100% on board with it. You can re-do part of it, all of it, or just leave it as you originally had it." CreationDate="2015-05-10T21:32:04.047" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="2840" PostId="629" Score="1" Text="I rather assumed moon-born elves would be born under the light of the moon i.e. outside at night alluding to elves mythic association with vegetation. I've no references for this though." CreationDate="2015-05-12T10:27:16.710" UserId="31" />
  <row Id="2828" PostId="630" Score="0" Text="I've looked and I can't find anything: it's possible that these towns are imaginary. According to the story, they were called this because the story involves pigs. I think it's highly likely that the naming of the towns were not intended to be taken seriously (especially bc other welsh tales also have &quot;comedic&quot; elements)" CreationDate="2015-05-12T01:07:22.010" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2829" PostId="630" Score="0" Text="@Christofian It's possible; I found some obscure but serious notes on other websites (I'm trying to remember where) that did use the same names. I also found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mochnant" CreationDate="2015-05-12T01:09:32.057" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="2811" PostId="632" Score="2" Text="Asterix and his friends were bold enough without the potion; it is mentioned multiple times that they only fear the sky will fall on their head. (Referring to the [Celts' answer to Alexander the Great](http://members.tripod.com/mr_sedivy/engrise3.html))." CreationDate="2015-05-11T05:09:12.690" UserId="58" />
  <row Id="8545" PostId="632" Score="0" Text="I believe the answer is Red Bull." CreationDate="2017-10-25T11:43:45.420" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="2810" PostId="633" Score="1" Text="Sorry, but I don't think it is true to say there are no Tylwtyh Teg men. *Giraldus Cambrensis* retells a story (*Elidorus and the Fairies*) where &quot;a youth of twelve years&quot; hiding in the wild met &quot;two little *men* of pigmy stature&quot; who brought him to meet their *king*. A description given for the Tylwtyh Teg he met was *&quot;These men were of the smallest stature, but very well proportioned in their make; they were all of a fair complexion, with luxuriant hair falling over their shoulders like that of women.&quot;* Besides presumably the boys they took would've been replaced by fairy boys as changlings." CreationDate="2015-05-11T05:05:32.133" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="2830" PostId="636" Score="0" Text="I'm sorry if I'm missing your point somewhere, but it seems to me that your answer is missing the crux of the question: Why would Woden be serving the juice that makes the *Britons* bold? The juice you're quoting from the Edda seems to be that which makes the *Saxons* bold, if anything." CreationDate="2015-05-12T04:03:15.783" UserId="227" />
  <row Id="2831" PostId="636" Score="0" Text="@Dolda2000 High quality mead is high quality mead, anywhere in the multiverse." CreationDate="2015-05-12T04:04:54.117" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="2832" PostId="636" Score="0" Text="Certainly, but why would the Saxons be singing about it as if it were the Britons' mead?" CreationDate="2015-05-12T04:05:43.470" UserId="227" />
  <row Id="2833" PostId="636" Score="1" Text="If you scroll up in the script you provided, it says: ***A place of heathen worship; the three saxon gods, Woden, Thor and Freya placed on pedestals; an altar.** Oswald, his magician Osmond and the earthly evil spirit Grimbald have brought victims for a sacrifice, to ensure victory in battle, and are preparing for the rites.  Grimbald goes to the door, and re-enters with six Saxons in white, with swords in their hands. They range, themselves three and three in opposition to each other. The rest of the stage is filled with priests and singers.*" CreationDate="2015-05-12T04:10:07.257" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="14361" PostId="640" Score="0" Text="I find using only Adam of Bremen and Tacitus as sources to answer a question on Norse mythology very questionable. Especially that second quote from Germania, which has nothing to do with old Norse society. Also, the conclusions you draw from Simek's quote are not correct, as shown in [this article](https://www.academia.edu/15349092/How_uniform_was_the_Old_Norse_religion) by Stefan Brink." CreationDate="2021-04-08T12:24:59.637" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="2836" PostId="649" Score="0" Text="just a note regarding my answer and some background which might help... Lucifer the angel who used to be in charge of heaven became greedy, wanted it all, so he took some angels which made them bad angels. God got Michael to kick out Lucifer which made his name then Satan and Jesus was placed in charge of heaven." CreationDate="2015-05-12T05:55:21.920" UserId="233" />
  <row Id="2837" PostId="649" Score="0" Text="Keep in mind the times. There was no internet back then. When a story was presented it had to be preserved and the bible has become a great preserver of things that was happening for that period and before. Don't take it literally but also don't loose the value. A picture of you today in two hundred years time is still a very valid point, even though we might not be able to piece your actual existence." CreationDate="2015-05-12T05:59:35.340" UserId="233" />
  <row Id="2839" PostId="651" Score="2" Text="Ourea was the mountains in the same way Gaia was the earth. Not so much her name was designated to mean mountains, she was the mountains." CreationDate="2015-05-12T10:13:15.990" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="2841" PostId="651" Score="0" Text="@Daft - Yes, that's kind of the sense I get too. In other words, one shouldn't really personify Gaia to the extent where it seems weird to you to talk about giving birth without a partner. Gaia wasn't a large woman walking around. Gaia was the earth." CreationDate="2015-05-12T11:10:38.663" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="2842" PostId="651" Score="1" Text="She was both a woman and the earth, she gave birth to the universe and at the same time she was the universe. Much in the same way Ourea was both a woman and the mountains. We're talking about Greek gods here." CreationDate="2015-05-12T11:14:51.770" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="2843" PostId="651" Score="2" Text="@Daft - Interesting. The former I got, but where are you getting the latter from? From what I saw, the mountains were generally considered male (with white beards), and there was one being for each mountain." CreationDate="2015-05-12T12:08:44.073" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="2845" PostId="654" Score="0" Text="Yes I think  that meaning &quot;born under the moon's influence&quot; makes sense." CreationDate="2015-05-12T17:25:25.973" UserId="164" />
  <row Id="2846" PostId="656" Score="0" Text="Don't forget that there were 600 years separating Pompilius and Varro. A lot can happen in 600 years." CreationDate="2015-05-12T17:44:06.167" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="2847" PostId="656" Score="0" Text="@durron597 True; the entire government had effectively changed." CreationDate="2015-05-12T17:46:55.900" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="2857" PostId="658" Score="5" Text="Before asking people to do a lot of work researching an answer, it's important to do some background research yourself. Could you please give a plausible reason why there would be &quot;a specific God like in Greek Mythology&quot; other than that you think it may be likely?" CreationDate="2015-05-12T20:57:48.697" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2862" PostId="658" Score="8" Text="Asking people to research when they haven't attempted to do any is one thing, but asking people to justify their questions seems poor and may lead to newbies being scared to ask questions (which they shouldn't be). Maybe he was just curious and couldn't find any info on the internet and wasn't sure if there was one or not?" CreationDate="2015-05-12T21:43:58.893" UserDisplayName="anon" />
  <row Id="2863" PostId="658" Score="1" Text="Thank you, thats what I thought a Q and A site was supposed to be about." CreationDate="2015-05-12T21:45:13.227" UserDisplayName="user28" />
  <row Id="6570" PostId="663" Score="0" Text="For a comparative myth source, you might want to check out [Milarepa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milarepa).  His story is that he learns sorcery young, wipe out some villagers with a storm.  He later repents and seeks to [atone for his evil acts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milarepa#Tutelage_under_Marpa)." CreationDate="2016-11-24T20:08:42.753" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="2867" PostId="665" Score="3" Text="Richard Wellington Husband &quot;Election Laws in Republican Rome&quot; The Classical Journal Vol. 11, No. 9 (Jun., 1916), pp. 535-545 at 541: The Fabian law of 66 BCE, &quot;restricted the number of attendants a candidate could have,&quot; but was utterly ineffective in stopping powerful men gathering clubs of men around them to intimidate.  ( http://www.jstor.org/stable/3288129?seq=7#page_scan_tab_contents )" CreationDate="2015-05-12T22:14:56.937" UserId="232" />
  <row Id="2868" PostId="665" Score="2" Text="I am having a surprisingly difficult time finding any information on this. Good question!" CreationDate="2015-05-12T22:19:40.423" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="2870" PostId="667" Score="2" Text="This seems to imply - interestingly - that Juno, a goddess, held herself accountable to a man-made law." CreationDate="2015-05-12T23:15:06.340" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="2871" PostId="667" Score="0" Text="@El'endiaStarman - Yeah, it's an interesting bit.  Reads satiric to my mind, but I can't say that's the intent with certainty." CreationDate="2015-05-12T23:25:29.867" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="2882" PostId="674" Score="1" Text="... but I'm afraid I didn't find anything interesting on Achelois" CreationDate="2015-05-13T08:31:46.873" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="2897" PostId="674" Score="1" Text="Thanks! I've upvoted, but I'd like to see a little more discussion on what Hecate's relationship is **with the moon** in particular before I accept." CreationDate="2015-05-13T14:36:02.990" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="14364" PostId="674" Score="0" Text="Apollo was not associated with the sun until Hellenic times, and neither was Artemis with the moon." CreationDate="2021-04-10T00:48:44.073" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="2883" PostId="675" Score="2" Text="You pretty much answer your own question, **‘Behold, I see my master, seated in Paradise. Paradise is beautiful and verdant. He is accompanied by his men and his male- slaves**' The slaves get to go to the paradise of Valhalla with their master. Something they could not achieve on their own in their capacity as a slave." CreationDate="2015-05-13T09:46:57.667" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="2884" PostId="675" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the comment. I'm not so sure. There are numerous times where warriors were cursed so that they would not join Valhalla, while other warriors simply go to Folkvang after their death, despite the battles they have fought. Isn't it a bit inconsistent to believe that Odin would take those slaves to Valhalla, while this was considered the greatest honor for a man at the time? I'm wondering if there is a source that can justify this exception." CreationDate="2015-05-13T10:07:28.043" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="2885" PostId="675" Score="0" Text="I would guess that if their master was _so honourable_ that his honour trumped their dishonour, they could go with him. But that's just my guess, hopefully someone finds a good reference for you." CreationDate="2015-05-13T10:11:23.057" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="2894" PostId="675" Score="0" Text="If no slaves were allowed in Walhalla, wouldn't that raise the question what's so great about Walhalla if you have no slaves to do your bidding? Wouldn't that mean that mean that all the menial labor (like fetching drinks or giving bodily pleasure...) would have to be done by other heroes worthy of Walhalla?" CreationDate="2015-05-13T13:48:15.660" UserId="119" />
  <row Id="2907" PostId="675" Score="1" Text="Thanks for the comment. What's great about Valhalla is the chance to train for Ragnarok alongside Odin, not so much a feast or even bodily pleasure. It's depicted more of a honor for a human as a warrior, than a heaven of riches." CreationDate="2015-05-13T22:00:08.230" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="6040" PostId="676" Score="1" Text="Since you mention Asia Minor, the fact that the word Titan is strickingly similar to the Hattic word tittah 'great, big' (fem. tette) used as an epithet for gods and royalties, streigthens the view that the worshippers might have been the non-Indo-European inhabitants of the area." CreationDate="2016-07-14T05:55:52.040" UserId="2778" />
  <row Id="2893" PostId="678" Score="5" Text="Welcome to Mythology.SE! We try to keep to a high standard of citation here, please see [**What are good sources when answering questions?**](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/105/what-are-good-sources-when-answering-questions) I have edited some links into your answer this time, but please keep this in mind in the future." CreationDate="2015-05-13T13:27:22.150" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="2899" PostId="679" Score="0" Text="Darn, the Three Unfortunate Disclosures would have been my next question ;)" CreationDate="2015-05-13T15:08:42.857" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="2900" PostId="679" Score="2" Text="@Yannis I predicted that would happen, so I figured I'd answer that, too. :-)" CreationDate="2015-05-13T15:09:18.753" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="2901" PostId="683" Score="0" Text="Great stuff, but it's that &quot;for whatever reason&quot; there that I'm most wondering at.  Could be the only answer is:  &quot;Well, Cuchulainn wasn't really best known for his brains.&quot;" CreationDate="2015-05-13T19:05:37.603" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="2905" PostId="683" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon That had worried me, too. I may have found something." CreationDate="2015-05-13T20:44:55.727" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="2910" PostId="683" Score="0" Text="Yes, that answers the question, and has lead me to what I'm really looking for.  I was looking at it backward, asking the wrong question.  Asking why a legendary Irish hero *didn't yield* is likely always the wrong question." CreationDate="2015-05-13T22:57:48.050" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="2926" PostId="691" Score="0" Text="The part of this that surprises me is that the last three sources claim Horatius Cocles was injured by the projectiles thrown at him.  Ed. Boronkay Iván, *Római regék és mondák* (1965), which references Livy as a source, seems to say the projectiles didn't hit him: “Repültek a hatalmas hajítófegyverek, de Horatius kivédte őket, koppanva, recsegve álltak meg a hős római pajzsában.”" CreationDate="2015-05-14T21:00:11.467" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="3064" PostId="697" Score="0" Text="Could it be this, that Plato was awake suddenly as philosopher simply by being shocked about an natural incident ?! By lost love or simply by an earthquake ?!" CreationDate="2015-05-17T13:45:32.503" UserId="305" />
  <row Id="8762" PostId="697" Score="0" Text="Based on facts and fiction are not the only two options." CreationDate="2018-01-09T03:25:09.020" UserId="4283" />
  <row Id="2930" PostId="698" Score="5" Text="So I've spent my life searching for a _completely fictitious product_... this will not sit well with the wife." CreationDate="2015-05-15T12:30:11.673" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="2931" PostId="698" Score="0" Text="@Daft Explain to her that you're just like a Trekkie, but of Atlantis. (And I *am* a Trekkie, so I mean that quite positively.)" CreationDate="2015-05-15T13:59:31.960" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="2933" PostId="702" Score="0" Text="Suggesting Plato is discussing a war between Athens and... Athens (at a later point in their history)?  That does sounds interesting." CreationDate="2015-05-15T17:16:56.943" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="2934" PostId="702" Score="1" Text="​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​@femtoRgon In this interpretation, Atlantis stands for the actual Athens, and &quot;ancient Athens&quot; (the story's Athens) for Plato's [idealized republic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republic_(Plato))." CreationDate="2015-05-15T19:45:27.013" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="2953" PostId="702" Score="0" Text="The specific issues of *Gulliver's Travels* are obscure to us today, but the tone of the story makes it blatantly obvious at several points that what you're reading is a satirical work of social commentary.  I remember realizing this the first time I read *Gulliver's Travels*, back in the 7th grade.  Assuming it's a satire, is Plato's Atlantis tale simply a lot more subtle about it?" CreationDate="2015-05-17T01:10:25.727" UserId="302" />
  <row Id="3188" PostId="702" Score="0" Text="Not satire necessarily, but allegory. The people of Atlantis over-reached, and were punished -- much as Athens had (in Plato's belief) over-reached in their military ventures and been punished by disastrous defeats." CreationDate="2015-06-02T17:13:52.100" UserId="282" />
  <row Id="2948" PostId="708" Score="0" Text="I'm reminded to the annotation of http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/640.html" CreationDate="2015-05-16T17:57:27.523" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="2935" PostId="710" Score="3" Text="Can I encourage you [to cite sources in your answer](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/a/106/62) (other than wikipedia)?" CreationDate="2015-05-16T01:55:47.760" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2966" PostId="710" Score="2" Text="I used the translations in the Penguin _Myths from Mespotamia_ (trans. Stephanie Dalley), and also _Inanna:Queen of Heaven and Earth_ by Diane Wokstein and Samuel Noah Kramer. The latter is very Jungian, and sees Inanna/Ishtar's descent as an initation myth, as I do." CreationDate="2015-05-17T15:30:16.530" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="2968" PostId="710" Score="0" Text="Your answer would be much better if you edited it to make it clear which source was the source of of which claim (i.e. It seems to be a model of heroic initiation. As said in [book x], [quote from book x].) Also, welcome to the site: I think it's great that you're reading those detailed analyses of myths, and I hope you continue to contribute (while properly citing sources)." CreationDate="2015-05-17T16:42:31.057" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2937" PostId="711" Score="2" Text="Not sure what to make of this translation.  As I understand the myth, Tammuz is alive in the beginning of it, and is later dragged back to the underworld in Ishtar's place.  I'm curious to know if there is more to this version than just poetic license though." CreationDate="2015-05-16T03:19:15.603" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3288" PostId="711" Score="0" Text="I think I do know what to make of this now, actually.  There certainly is more to it than poetic license.  Seems to be a kinda quirky retelling of the 1915 translation by Jastrow (linked in the question).  I've added a note about the change in our understanding of Dumuzi's role in the story to my answer." CreationDate="2015-06-12T21:22:54.580" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3065" PostId="712" Score="0" Text="http://aediculaantinoi.wordpress.com/&#xA;http://redeeminggod.com/egyptian-baptism/ Other bloggers pretty much take the first blog's word for it." CreationDate="2015-05-16T17:40:38.480" UserDisplayName="user298" />
  <row Id="2960" PostId="713" Score="1" Text="Follow up question about the meaning of the word &quot;me&quot;: http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/726/62" CreationDate="2015-05-17T12:21:32.760" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2986" PostId="713" Score="0" Text="@Christofian - Good deal.  Linked to it in my answer." CreationDate="2015-05-17T20:21:42.647" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="2956" PostId="714" Score="2" Text="please note that I have been searching the net and found nothing to the point. Asclepιos  was killed by lightning by Zeus but he was not a lover but a son and he was punished for cheating death." CreationDate="2015-05-17T03:41:40.013" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="4656" PostId="714" Score="0" Text="not sure but just if you are mistaken on the gods side there is a myth where ares kills one of Poseidon sons" CreationDate="2016-04-05T03:43:17.647" UserId="1424" />
  <row Id="4660" PostId="714" Score="0" Text="After so much time went on without a myth being found, I wonder if I read some obscure work of fiction which contained a made-up Greek myth." CreationDate="2016-04-05T10:11:22.937" UserId="295" />
  <row Id="2950" PostId="719" Score="0" Text="Yes but when Cain killed Abel did all these people exist? Is there any timeline indication that could prove that when Cain killed Abel there were already hundreds of people on earth?" CreationDate="2015-05-16T18:55:41.283" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="2951" PostId="719" Score="2" Text="@JohnDemetriou: Nope. If we take the Genesis account at its word, there is pretty much no other explanation. There *may* have been other people around by the time Cain was born, but there's nothing to support anything more than a possibility." CreationDate="2015-05-16T21:17:14.683" UserId="18" />
  <row Id="2952" PostId="722" Score="3" Text="At least two seasons. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1199099/" CreationDate="2015-05-16T22:25:25.100" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="2958" PostId="724" Score="3" Text="I don't think you even need to go as far as Chaos. The 12 Olympians were all children or grandchildren of Chronus and Rhea, right? ([that Zeus did get around](https://ludios.org/greekgods/greek-tree-full.png))" CreationDate="2015-05-17T04:13:38.597" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="2961" PostId="724" Score="1" Text="I personally disagree with Yannis about this question: I don't think these types of &quot;list every ancient religion with x characteristic&quot; questions are helpful because (1) they're hard to answer no matter how narrow x is and (2) what are you learning other than &quot;there are a lot of gods who are descended from one family&quot;. I personally think comparative questions should be along the lines of &quot;*why* are myth x and myth y similar in z way,&quot; because only two religions are being compared and the question is more interesting." CreationDate="2015-05-17T12:29:08.793" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2976" PostId="724" Score="0" Text="@Christofian - with all due respect, the fact that you don't learn anything from comparative type information does not imply others don't" CreationDate="2015-05-17T19:00:19.110" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="2991" PostId="724" Score="1" Text="@DVK to elaborate on my first point, this is essentially a myth identification question, except that instead of asking for one myth, you're asking for every myth with a certain characteristic. I'm sure if I were to go to SciFi.SE and ask `&quot;in what stories are all the main characters part of the same family&quot;` I would be downvoted. I don't think we should have myth-id questions in the first place, but if we are going to have them, I'm going to put my foot down on questions where the goal is to identify every myth with a certain characteristic." CreationDate="2015-05-18T18:32:41.117" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2992" PostId="724" Score="0" Text="If we are going to have comparison questions, they should be like this one (http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/53/what-differences-were-there-in-greek-soldiers-worship-of-ares-and-roman-soldiers): it's comparing two specified myths, and not asking for a list of myths that are similar to another myth." CreationDate="2015-05-18T18:37:18.683" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="2964" PostId="725" Score="0" Text="If this evidence is so difficult to find, how in the world could Plato have known about it?" CreationDate="2015-05-17T13:34:50.807" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="2985" PostId="725" Score="0" Text="Sorry, I meant Graham Hancock. In terms of Plato and evidence, the oral cultures had a discipline around remembering and passing things on. There are apparently flood myths from all around the world." CreationDate="2015-05-17T20:03:29.630" UserId="304" />
  <row Id="8763" PostId="725" Score="0" Text="and why the down votes?" CreationDate="2018-01-09T03:27:25.410" UserId="4283" />
  <row Id="2962" PostId="727" Score="5" Text="I think it's worth mentioning that the me were sometimes represented as physical objects.  In The Descent of Inanna it's mentioned that she &quot;gathered together the seven me&quot;. These seven me are then listed as the garments she wore before she set out for the underworld." CreationDate="2015-05-17T13:00:49.800" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="2963" PostId="727" Score="3" Text="I have edited my answer and added some information to address your comment. Thanks for the comment." CreationDate="2015-05-17T13:20:58.127" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="2988" PostId="727" Score="1" Text="A note on the number of known *me*:  The wikipedia article seems to be based mostly on Kramers 1963 book.  The [1983 translation](http://www.amazon.com/Inanna-Queen-Heaven-Earth-Stories/dp/0060908548), from him and Wolkstein, lists an even 80. I don't know the whole story there, but I can only hope the intervening 20 years of study revealed the meaning of another 20.  (This doesn't really make much of a difference to your answer, but it is interesting.  [This seems to be the same translation...almost](http://one-heaven.org/sacred_texts/book/Inanna_and_the_God_of_Wisdom/c/3.html)." CreationDate="2015-05-17T22:27:02.583" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="2989" PostId="727" Score="0" Text="Hmm thanks for the comment, I didn't notice that." CreationDate="2015-05-17T22:31:47.723" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="2994" PostId="736" Score="0" Text="I'm a little bit worried about this answer: can you prove that the Magnus Maximus on wikipedia is the same Magnus Maximus mentioned in the story?" CreationDate="2015-05-18T18:40:51.903" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3009" PostId="736" Score="0" Text="@Christofian Does that edit address your concerns?" CreationDate="2015-05-18T21:09:02.997" UserId="11" />
  <row Id="3010" PostId="736" Score="0" Text="Honestly, to me, that seems like a needless tangent.  In the context of the question, it seems safe to take that Macsen Wledig = Magnus Maximus as axiomatic.  I think verifying that fact might be better served by a new question." CreationDate="2015-05-18T21:11:31.403" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="2996" PostId="738" Score="1" Text="[Cimmerians](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerians); [Hyperboreans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperborea). Could you elaborate a little bit more what you want/need to know about these people?" CreationDate="2015-05-18T19:15:10.660" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="3002" PostId="738" Score="0" Text="@Jody, I still don't understand what you need. Doesn't an entry on wikipedia or any other page (like the ones I posted in my comment) answer your question? It explains who Cimmerians and Hyperborians were to ancient Greek. Finding about the Ethiopians should be as easy (or if there is anything tricky, maybe its own question). If you want to learn anything about them beyond what a google search will show you, you should be more specific on your question." CreationDate="2015-05-18T20:18:32.787" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="3003" PostId="738" Score="0" Text="@Deion, the wikipedia pages provides little more insight than the myth itself with regards to what kind of races these beings were since they were supposed to exist before mankind according to the myth." CreationDate="2015-05-18T20:28:06.187" UserDisplayName="user28" />
  <row Id="3008" PostId="738" Score="0" Text="@Jody then my advice is to split this question in 3. Unless Cimmerians, Hyperboreans and Ethiopians are really closely related (it will be good to provide a reference to the myth you are referring) ask one question for each. It will help getting better answers that are more searchable in the site (see for example how the only answer this post has right now only addresses one race? In order to get better and more clear answers the question should be a little bit more specific)." CreationDate="2015-05-18T20:54:21.200" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="3052" PostId="738" Score="0" Text="My guess would be that this question comes out of [Conan the Barbarian lore](http://conan.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperborea), rather than real-world mythology. If so, it probably belongs on either the SciFi &amp; Fantasy stack or on the History stack, depending on if the author wants to know the answer for the real earth, or for the Conan universe." CreationDate="2015-05-20T10:06:50.853" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="4312" PostId="738" Score="1" Text="These are real Greek mythical peoples, or rather peoples that the Greeks had heard of (and in the case of the Hyperboreans invented) and incorporated into their mythology." CreationDate="2016-01-31T18:16:23.063" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3063" PostId="740" Score="0" Text="I'd expand on this after some research, but to get this out there, They have a dedicated temple for all Major Gods, The Pantheon." CreationDate="2015-05-19T04:02:36.820" UserId="320" />
  <row Id="3055" PostId="742" Score="4" Text="Seneca wrote this after Greece had been absorbed into the Empire, which means this was probably infected with the Greek influence that the question was trying to separate out." CreationDate="2015-05-20T10:36:07.770" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="3062" PostId="742" Score="1" Text="@T.E.D. Roman religious beliefs had been &quot;infected&quot; with Greek elements since before their earliest written records. In any case, the question does not seem at all like it's excluding Greek influence." CreationDate="2015-05-20T15:34:04.023" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3047" PostId="743" Score="0" Text="No Christian denomnation teaches this, and it's not widely taught in the sense that you're referring to.  It's more a construct of popular culture than it is of actual Christian teachings." CreationDate="2015-05-20T03:27:10.383" UserId="96" />
  <row Id="3048" PostId="743" Score="0" Text="Christian teaching is that all are damned already (John 3:18) so the idea that one can &quot;give up a soul to the devil&quot; when a soul already belongs to him flies in the face of Christian teaching.  Therefore, I'm not sure that this is any more on-topic than it is to ask questions about Greek mythology based on marvel comics versions of Hercules.  There's the original &quot;myth&quot; and then there's the pop-culture bastardization of the myth. is the bastardization on-topic here?" CreationDate="2015-05-20T03:34:00.770" UserId="96" />
  <row Id="3049" PostId="743" Score="1" Text="@DavidStratton - I think it's documented appearance in witch trials and inquisitions (such as that of [Urbain Grandier](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbain_Grandier), for a notable example), and the canonization of [Theophilus of Adana](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophilus_of_Adana) based on his story establish it as a valid myth that once gained fairly broad acceptance, even if it isn't given much credit in current Christian dogma." CreationDate="2015-05-20T03:44:21.303" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3050" PostId="743" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon - fair enough.  just asking. The site is in beta after all." CreationDate="2015-05-20T03:47:25.017" UserId="96" />
  <row Id="10173" PostId="743" Score="0" Text="@DavidStratton - You should ask your question about what's on-topic in the meta. &quot;Bastardisation&quot; is a highly emotive term and best avoided. Questions about myths that only &quot;exist in fictional works&quot; (not ideal phrasing) are off-topic, but there is no policy on questions about modifications of myths in popular culture, as I understand it anyway." CreationDate="2018-03-17T17:27:42.287" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="3038" PostId="748" Score="1" Text="Upvoting this. I started watching [The Almighty Johnsons](http://thealmightyjohnsons.co.nz/) on Netflix, and Loki is portrayed as a fire god there. I'd never heard that one, and in general their mythological lore is really bad, but I was curious. If wrong, it could certainly use a debunking." CreationDate="2015-05-19T23:17:03.943" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="3097" PostId="748" Score="0" Text="Related: http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/520/utgard-loki-loki-and-logi" CreationDate="2015-05-22T23:44:42.573" UserId="174" />
  <row Id="6186" PostId="748" Score="1" Text="I will make the point (here in comments lest I be voted down) that there is a clear parallel between Loki and Prometheus, who stole fire from Heaven. Both defied the Chief God, Zeus/Odin, and were bound. So the Loki/Logi connection may not be mere confusion." CreationDate="2016-08-25T18:55:09.340" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16335" PostId="750" Score="0" Text="Not [i]all[/i] the scholars think Loki wasn't worshipped... https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9789048554065-014/pdf &amp; https://www.jstor.org/stable/1508020" CreationDate="2023-04-04T06:16:08.187" UserId="10150" />
  <row Id="16336" PostId="750" Score="0" Text="Not to mention ancient nordic religion actually *still survives to this day* despite people treating it like a dead religion, in the form of  of modern revivals in Thursatru, Volva, and Astareu and Thursatru has references to a cult of Loki in ÞURSAKYNGI-LOKI - and these modern revivals come from people that still have surviving written &amp; oral traditions from the older religions, meaning they're less dead religions and more religions coming out of hiding." CreationDate="2023-04-04T06:22:45.833" UserId="10150" />
  <row Id="6725" PostId="760" Score="0" Text="One does not have to apply to general raven symbolism; there is certainly evidence suggestive of Odin together with ravens earlier than the 9th century. There are several vendel era depictions of a rider with a spear and one or two birds, e.g. the following detail from a helmet: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Del_av_hj%C3%A4lm_vendel_vendeltid_m%C3%B6jligen_oden.jpg" CreationDate="2016-12-17T20:51:06.460" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="3056" PostId="761" Score="0" Text="What or where is _West Country_? Both words are capitalized so I'm assuming this is the literal name of a place and you're not referring to the west of England." CreationDate="2015-05-20T10:41:02.357" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="3057" PostId="761" Score="2" Text="The south west of England is referred to as the West Country.  So yes, it is the literal name of an area.  It roughly equates to the historic kingdom of Wessex which pre-dates the formation of the kingdom of England." CreationDate="2015-05-20T10:45:25.700" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="3058" PostId="761" Score="0" Text="Could you please provide a reference for &quot;The myth as it is still known in the West Country is that Arthur will rise again from Avalon&quot;? It reminded me of a very similar Greek / Byzantine myth about the return of Constantine Palaiologos." CreationDate="2015-05-20T10:48:25.843" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3059" PostId="761" Score="2" Text="&quot;Glastonbury - Maker of Myths&quot;, Frances Howard-Gordon, ISBN 0 906362 730 is one of the best.  Also there is a mention at http://glastonburyabbey.com/" CreationDate="2015-05-20T11:01:13.897" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16134" PostId="765" Score="0" Text="Horses evolved here in North America and despite what they never died out. There are numerous new archeological evidence that proves just that. https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A%2F%2Fapp.box.com%2Fs%2Fzhfcqgrwr4gyquq66206cwa9u3873qtm" CreationDate="2022-09-25T21:05:11.953" UserId="9615" />
  <row Id="3726" PostId="766" Score="0" Text="I can't really confirm my words with any source, but by the logic of events Sea god can't rule over River gods just because rivers are not taking the beginning from seas." CreationDate="2015-09-21T14:29:49.667" UserId="769" />
  <row Id="4794" PostId="766" Score="0" Text="Poseidon is likely a indo european or a steppe nomadic god. Why? Because its always associated with horses. And Harald haarman says it too." CreationDate="2016-05-14T12:08:16.683" UserDisplayName="user1575" />
  <row Id="3570" PostId="770" Score="1" Text="Poseidon was actually the original king of all the Greek gods, before the shift that led to the Greeks worshiping Zeus above all." CreationDate="2015-08-04T01:28:24.570" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3571" PostId="770" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Interesting. When did the shift happen?" CreationDate="2015-08-04T15:30:52.320" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3572" PostId="770" Score="5" Text="We don't really know anything exact, but sometime between 1200 BCE and 800 BCE. Poseidon was the original progenitor to plenty of Greek peoples, and he was worshiped as a primary god in plenty of places, especially in the islands. For the switch, remnants of it remain in myths like Athena v. Poseidon as the chief deity of Athens. I'm actually working on a history on this. But the Wikipedia entry on Poseidon has some rudimentary information on it." CreationDate="2015-08-04T20:43:31.493" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3970" PostId="770" Score="0" Text="HDE 226868  As a matter of mythology (as opposed to religion), Pontus was counted among the Titans.  He would have ceded his authority of the seas over to Poseidon/Neptune when the Olympians finally defeated Titans." CreationDate="2015-11-26T20:21:27.473" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="3090" PostId="777" Score="0" Text="This is pretty cool. Two follow-up questions: (1) is this something just limited to the Navajo or is it also seen in other Native American cultures? and (2) could you summarise the books explanation for why only horses were incorporated in this way?" CreationDate="2015-05-21T00:51:26.047" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3091" PostId="777" Score="0" Text="It's similar for the Apache, the book covers them too. The Navajo and Apache are both fairly close to Mexico, so they would have obtained horses earlier than other groups. The book is about horses, I don't think it tries to cover other topics - you could always buy it ;-)." CreationDate="2015-05-21T06:45:03.303" UserId="31" />
  <row Id="16352" PostId="791" Score="0" Text="I kind of feel like Hercules is the obvious Perkwunos candidate, but I'm not an expert." CreationDate="2023-05-04T17:14:15.310" UserId="9925" />
  <row Id="3096" PostId="792" Score="1" Text="This reminds me a bit of [this old Chinese story](http://www.travelchinaguide.com/intro/social_customs/zodiac/story.htm) about how their Zodiac animals were selected. There are lots of different versions, but I believe the one I first heard involved the sunrise on a specific day." CreationDate="2015-05-22T15:51:25.220" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="3099" PostId="795" Score="0" Text="Are you asking for when tales of fairies first appeared?" CreationDate="2015-05-23T14:45:49.813" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3100" PostId="795" Score="0" Text="@HDE226868 - No... I think I'm asking if 'fairies' is a term that was made up to encompass all those Fairy Tales, sorta like how all/most Pagan Gods -&gt; Demons in Christianity in the past. ... Perhaps Ling.SE would be a better fit?" CreationDate="2015-05-23T14:47:52.000" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="3101" PostId="795" Score="0" Text="We have some questions on [tag:names] and related topics; I think this is fine here. Thanks for clarifying." CreationDate="2015-05-23T14:48:27.813" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3102" PostId="796" Score="2" Text="This site has been less active lately: I would encourage everyone [to start reading a myth](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/217/im-new-and-interested-in-mythology-what-are-good-myths-for-beginners-to-read) and ask questions about things you don't understand." CreationDate="2015-05-23T15:51:54.143" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4567" PostId="822" Score="1" Text="Geoffrey's history is largely fictional. I would assume that the number twelve here is mostly symbolical. If Geoffrey gives a timeframe for when this part happened, you can research what the other provinces of Gaul where at that time, besides Aquitaine, and then find the rulers of it." CreationDate="2016-03-15T19:28:37.293" UserDisplayName="user1324" />
  <row Id="4407" PostId="825" Score="0" Text="See also the quote about Hermes from Diodorus via Lacus Curtius in http://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/1425/197" CreationDate="2016-02-09T12:13:34.293" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="3108" PostId="827" Score="0" Text="[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diomedes#After_the_fall_of_Troy) also says that when he was rumored to have courted (or married) another woman, his wife essentially left him (and possibly cheated on him and the same time). It's quite possible that she didn't even know about his extramarital wishes for Helen, and that she would absolutely not have been okay with it had she known." CreationDate="2015-05-23T22:36:47.370" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3109" PostId="827" Score="0" Text="@HDE226868 - I (or rather, Ancient Greeks :) would be more concerned from the view of Tyndareus, not Diomedes's wife. Also, the wife's adultery - from my limited understanding - happened during aftermath the Trojan expedition, 10+ years after the Suiting of Helen happened." CreationDate="2015-05-23T22:40:34.370" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="3110" PostId="827" Score="0" Text="Also, I'm unsure but IIRC, at the time polygamy wasn't officially allowed (one wife, many mistresses only)" CreationDate="2015-05-23T22:45:01.697" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="3907" PostId="827" Score="0" Text="Actually Diomedes married many times......." CreationDate="2015-11-03T15:35:55.177" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="14682" PostId="828" Score="0" Text="That may be an important point in the myth of the Trojan War, but it does not come up in the *Iliad.* See Richmond Lattimore's introduction to his translation (for which purpose you may have to seek out an older printing) on how utterly the poem neglects back-story." CreationDate="2021-11-11T12:36:51.853" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14683" PostId="828" Score="0" Text="Also, separate myths have come down to us regarding the recruitment to the war effort of both Odysseus (outfoxed by Palamedes) and Achilles (outfoxed by Odysseus), while the oath of Tyndareus suffices to account for the participation of the other Achaean chieftains; and this suggests that these two were not parties to the oath. (Achilles was yet too young to be Helen's suitor at that time.)" CreationDate="2021-11-11T12:47:48.550" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="3119" PostId="832" Score="4" Text="Nice one. Your last quote pretty much is the answer; the writing came naturally to the ancient Greeks through trading, which happened in their times and the source of the alphabet was pretty much known to them." CreationDate="2015-05-24T21:36:31.470" UserId="29" />
  <row Id="3164" PostId="832" Score="3" Text="Great answer. I think, though, that Prometheus deserves to be mentioned. As it says in Prometheus Bound 460: &quot;ἐξηῦρον αὐτοῖς, γραμμάτων τε συνθέσεις&quot; - I found for them the knowledge of the letters." CreationDate="2015-05-28T07:18:04.193" UserId="161" />
  <row Id="3165" PostId="832" Score="1" Text="@theodojo I think you should post that as an answer, it's an excellent find and you should get credit (and rep) for it. Here's a link to an English translation you can quote: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0085.tlg003.perseus-eng1:436-471" CreationDate="2015-05-28T07:53:26.727" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3147" PostId="852" Score="1" Text="My *guess* would be that you are looking at it backwards. There was this neat story about a labyrinth with a Minotaur in it, and the rest is an attempt at a backstory justifying it." CreationDate="2015-05-26T11:48:02.460" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="3158" PostId="852" Score="0" Text="@T.E.D. Considering how little the primary sources say about the labyrinth's planning or construction, that probably is a large part of it." CreationDate="2015-05-26T20:07:46.027" UserId="87" />
  <row Id="3176" PostId="852" Score="0" Text="Similar: [What was the purpose of the Labyrinth built by Daedalus?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/208/51) which was closed." CreationDate="2015-06-01T17:17:37.327" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="3186" PostId="853" Score="0" Text="Höðr is a blind god in Norse mythology, so he's another candidate." CreationDate="2015-06-01T22:36:15.373" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="3187" PostId="853" Score="0" Text="@b_jonas As far as I can recall, Höðr didn't lose his eyes - he had them, they just weren't functioning." CreationDate="2015-06-02T09:25:46.583" UserId="37" />
  <row Id="3260" PostId="853" Score="0" Text="@JennyD the question title askf for a generic &quot;blinded&quot;, while the body is more specific with &quot;lost&quot;. The OP should clarify. It's also unclear if with &quot;one&quot; he means &quot;exacly one&quot; or &quot;two&quot; would be a valid answer." CreationDate="2015-06-10T12:30:58.963" UserId="254" />
  <row Id="3261" PostId="853" Score="0" Text="@Lohoris - Yeah... I tried to reword the question to better fit the answers I was getting... I guess I missed the mark... You can try to reword it better, if you want..." CreationDate="2015-06-10T15:25:58.187" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="3262" PostId="853" Score="0" Text="@Malandy I would but I do not know what you want to know... ;)" CreationDate="2015-06-10T15:47:53.613" UserId="254" />
  <row Id="3263" PostId="853" Score="0" Text="@Lohoris - Well, what I was hoping for was a list of humanoid, two-eyed, gods who had an eye removed, permanently, but from the answers that I got, that appears to be too specific, so I was just trying to alter the question to say &quot;Gods that have had eye-damage/removal and lost an eye.&quot;, as that would encompass all the current answers..." CreationDate="2015-06-10T16:33:13.067" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="6312" PostId="853" Score="0" Text="I'm not sure if Polyphemus counts as a 'god' within the parameters of your question. Odysseus and his men put out P.'s eye as part of their escape." CreationDate="2016-09-11T13:19:57.003" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="6335" PostId="853" Score="0" Text="@Spencer - Oh, he was blinded. Hmm... Perhaps instead of &quot;lost an eye&quot; replace with &quot;had an eye removed&quot;... ... Yeah, gonna do that..." CreationDate="2016-09-12T18:58:32.747" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="3138" PostId="855" Score="3" Text="If I remember correctly, a lot of them were at Olympus or Hades or some other place mortals can't easily reach, but there's also plenty of stories about deities running around doing stuff/having sex with mortals in &quot;normal&quot; places. I'd be surprised if there was a more thorough excuse written down anywhere." CreationDate="2015-05-25T22:45:12.110" UserId="87" />
  <row Id="3139" PostId="855" Score="0" Text="vsz - Other religions/mythologies spoke of deities/supernatural beings interacting with the world - take Christianity, for example." CreationDate="2015-05-25T23:30:31.397" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3142" PostId="855" Score="1" Text="@HDE226868 - Christianity is confusing as far as &quot;interacting&quot; (well, at least to me the concept of the Trinity is so I can't explain it - I'm sure the experts in C.SE site can). But Judaism, where it originated, was pretty explicit in that The One couldn't come in contact with humans for that would destroy the human (thus the need for burning bush, or for [Severus Snape.... errr... Voice of God](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_1old1orj0))" CreationDate="2015-05-26T03:01:06.237" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="9033" PostId="855" Score="0" Text="They are often diguised as something else. Great wild beasts, birds. They can also use animals and such to spy on people, so they are almost as omni present as the christian god." CreationDate="2018-02-26T09:48:13.197" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10521" PostId="855" Score="0" Text="After [Cantor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Cantor), I'm not so sure the infinite conceptions of god are beyond our understanding, at least in terms of being able to categorize and work with an infinities of infinities via [set theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_number).  One of the earliest recognitions of the mathematical nature of infinity may be [Zeno's paradoxes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno%27s_paradoxes).   *PS- Great question!*" CreationDate="2018-05-03T17:50:21.507" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11937" PostId="855" Score="0" Text="The pagan gods were conceived as anthropomorphic personifications of the various elements of nature, or of human activities, either physical or intellectual; thus, Artemis is the hunt(ing), Dionysus is the party(ing) and/or agricultural products (such as wine) closely associated with such occasions, etc." CreationDate="2019-09-27T08:46:53.107" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="14515" PostId="855" Score="0" Text="[*Aeneid* 2.602-18](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0054%3Abook%3D2%3Acard%3D588) posits a kind of mist that ordinarily clouds human vision so as to obscure the forms and actions of the gods. At an extraordinary and critical moment, when Aeneas is about to murder Helen, his mother Venus appears and temporarily takes that mist away from his eyes." CreationDate="2021-07-06T22:25:14.063" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="3143" PostId="856" Score="1" Text="Although you're probably right as far as the Greeks are concerned (indeed they don t seem to have tried to justify this), there are several mythologies/religions that have &quot;in-universe&quot; explanations of why one cannot see the gods on an everyday basis and given the number of creatures/deities that the greek mythology have i think the question was legitimate. That being said i downvoted your answer only for the reason i mentioned in the suggested edit. Once it will be edited out i will rescind it." CreationDate="2015-05-26T07:04:08.990" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="3149" PostId="856" Score="1" Text="John Rogers, creator/producer of the TV shows *Leverage* and *The Librarians*, has pretty much this answer for excessively fanwank questions about details and background: &quot;Whatever makes the story more interesting for you.&quot; I'm sure there were &quot;in-universe&quot; reasons why the Greeks didn't meet their deities at the local agora, but those reasons were not germane to telling a good story." CreationDate="2015-05-26T12:09:10.567" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="3152" PostId="856" Score="3" Text="+1 for the beginning of the answer and -1 for the rest of it, especially the painfully inaccurate monologues about Christianity and its relation to science. I refrain myself from answering those, because I registered on this site and posted this question for the purpose of learning more about ancient cultures, and not to take part in theological debates about current religions. Is your main goal to give answers related to the myths in the question, or to use it as a soapbox for your views on real life religions? I'll edit the question in case you reactions were caused by a misunderstanding." CreationDate="2015-05-26T14:55:23.177" UserId="357" />
  <row Id="3153" PostId="857" Score="0" Text="I hoped my first paragraph will be enough to point out why such an &quot;extrapolation&quot; wouldn't be accurate. First of all, Mary and St. Nicholas etc. were not worshiped as deities, and even if they were, there is a very clear explanation why you don't meet Mary or Nicholas on the streets: because they died long ago, and not even the most religious believe otherwise. Second, I was not talking about a deity which is &quot;among us in spirit&quot;, but about the flesh-and-blood deities of ancient Greek myths. While your answer in very interesting, I must point out that it doesn't answer the question at all." CreationDate="2015-05-26T15:29:52.377" UserId="357" />
  <row Id="3154" PostId="857" Score="1" Text="Reality and myths are interwoven in religiosity. In the same way that a prayer to Mary and a candle lit is expected to have the ear of Mary,  and she is alive in the current orthodox myth, in the heavenly dimensions. The myths were made to explain the religiosity, and not vice verso. After all the greek gods did not exist. It was the human need for a divinity that created them and the myths around them." CreationDate="2015-05-26T15:44:14.703" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="3155" PostId="857" Score="1" Text="I agree with your comment completely. However, the question is not about this. In the myths the Greek gods don't just exist in a heavenly dimension, they do walk the Earth flesh and blood, so I was wondering whether there is specified in any of the myths why they no longer do it." CreationDate="2015-05-26T15:58:32.453" UserId="357" />
  <row Id="3156" PostId="857" Score="2" Text="what I am trying to say is that for them the gods were present around them, because of their statues and temples and had no religious need to create a myth about why they did not come down from Olympus." CreationDate="2015-05-26T16:05:53.423" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="9032" PostId="859" Score="2" Text="The Romans thought that [Castor and Pollux appeared](http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Europe/Italy/Lazio/Roma/Rome/_Texts/PLATOP*/Aedes_Castoris.html) (2nd par.) to them before a war." CreationDate="2018-02-26T02:00:49.267" UserId="4565" />
  <row Id="3172" PostId="861" Score="2" Text="I think it is worth noting that the Greeks and Romans recognized other religions as related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretatio_graeca" CreationDate="2015-05-31T19:23:38.153" UserId="175" />
  <row Id="3166" PostId="863" Score="2" Text="May I encourage you to [cite reputable sources](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/q/105/62) (e.g. not wikipedia)? Doing so makes it easy to know if your answer is right, and also provides starting points to users who would like to learn more about the topic." CreationDate="2015-05-28T15:04:36.277" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3167" PostId="863" Score="0" Text="i recently killed my computer with all my mythology books... i will add some references when i can take the time to dig through my collection and find the correct title. until then, i don't want to guess at which book i got the information from. Thank you Christofian :)" CreationDate="2015-05-28T15:08:26.340" UserId="367" />
  <row Id="3168" PostId="863" Score="0" Text="Well, this answer is about how the 'meaning' of fairy evolved over time, not how the word 'fairy' even appeared... But, if this answer is correct, then a likely path to the current usage of &quot;Fairy&quot;, would be that &quot;Fae&quot; was first used to mean: &quot;Natural Forces that control our Fate&quot;, which connects 'Natural Forces&quot; and &quot;Fate&quot; (Fate 'cause the Latin parts of the etymology I posted in the OP), and then evolved from there to current &quot;Fairy&quot;... But, that's just speculation..." CreationDate="2015-05-28T18:19:38.237" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="8587" PostId="866" Score="0" Text="Are you saying that an elf, a fairy, and a sidhe are essentially the same type of being/species ?" CreationDate="2017-10-31T06:37:55.247" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="10385" PostId="866" Score="0" Text="You can't assume in such a way that words used in different languages and cultures express the same concept. There are ontological issues here." CreationDate="2018-04-17T16:38:50.460" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10389" PostId="866" Score="0" Text="@TheEarth I’m talking about English language and culture, which has roots in Germanic and French languages. Modern English typically uses the two roots interchangeably, except that the French-rooted words typically have a higher register than the Germanic-rooted words, which we mostly perceive as more vulgar or folksy. For another example, French _beef_ is a high-register word for meat whereas Germanic _cow_ is a low-register word for a farm animal. In some cases, like _weird,_ the Germanic roots have become archaic or obsolete." CreationDate="2018-04-17T21:48:40.740" UserId="174" />
  <row Id="10390" PostId="866" Score="0" Text="I’m not entirely sure what you mean by that comment though, so if you had some other criticism in mind, please elaborate." CreationDate="2018-04-17T21:52:40.727" UserId="174" />
  <row Id="10392" PostId="866" Score="0" Text="I was responding to your statement that &quot;*faerie* is simply the French word for the concept, just as *elf* is the Germanic word and *sidhe* is the Gaelic word for it&quot; although that can't have been what you had in mind when you said you were talking about English language and culture. Usage of each of those words developed within a culture and came with meanings that in some respects at least were specific to it. Moreover I think that accounts for some of the difference between the meanings of *fairy* (or *faerie*) and *elf* in English." CreationDate="2018-04-17T23:08:41.897" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10403" PostId="866" Score="0" Text="True, the words do have some different connotations!" CreationDate="2018-04-19T02:43:24.037" UserId="174" />
  <row Id="10405" PostId="866" Score="0" Text="That said, the meat of this question is, roughly, did we make up the word “fairy” to encapsulate all of the various other words for fairies, and the answer to that is still _no_! We just settled on the French-derived word as a preferred term, the way we settled on a lot of other French-derived words for things." CreationDate="2018-04-19T02:51:43.080" UserId="174" />
  <row Id="3194" PostId="869" Score="0" Text="I suppose there are worse problems to have than finding it difficult to decide which of two exemplary answers to accept." CreationDate="2015-06-04T05:03:41.093" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3195" PostId="869" Score="1" Text="I would have chosen semaphore's answer as well don't worry :)" CreationDate="2015-06-04T06:25:28.180" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="6343" PostId="870" Score="2" Text="Horus is also [temporarily blinded](http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/horus_and_seth.htm) by Set during their &quot;Contendings&quot;, but Thoth heals his eye." CreationDate="2016-09-14T00:00:40.120" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="3174" PostId="873" Score="2" Text="May I encourage you to [cite reputable sources](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/q/105/62) (e.g. not wikipedia)? Doing so makes it easy to know if your answer is right, and also provides starting points to users who would like to learn more about the topic." CreationDate="2015-06-01T16:17:04.210" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3175" PostId="873" Score="5" Text="@Christofian: No, you may not. That the Minotaur was the offspring of Pasiphae and the Bull from the Sea is known to anyone with even a passing acquaintance with the myth, and I do not think this site should provide notes for those who have none. If you refer to the 'Monster of Glamis', my point is that there was no reputable source.  I don't object to downvotes: I do object to people not reading my posts before downvoting." CreationDate="2015-06-01T16:31:02.813" UserId="131" />
  <row Id="3178" PostId="873" Score="1" Text="I did not mean to offend, and I did read your post and I thought it was good. The problem with my comment is that I've been using a default template, which doesn't work in situations like this. I agree with you that you do not need to cite a source for the first paragraph, but for the second, I would appreciate it if you cited a source talking about *the story behind the Monster of Glamis* (not the history), since I (along with many others) am not familiar with the story and it is not common fact that the story exists. I am not looking for a source proving that story is true." CreationDate="2015-06-01T20:12:44.813" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3179" PostId="873" Score="0" Text="@Christofian: Apology accepted (though you might want to use more specific comments in future). The reason why I didn't provide a reference for a story I wished to debunk is the difficulty some readers have distinguishing &quot;It's true there's a rumour&quot; from &quot;The rumour's true&quot;: But a simple search for 'Monster of Glamis' turns up, for example, [The Smithsonian magazine](http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-monster-of-glamis-92015626/)." CreationDate="2015-06-01T21:03:58.043" UserId="131" />
  <row Id="3180" PostId="873" Score="0" Text="sorry again about the unspecific comment (I've been using a default template because I've been rushed for time, and it usually works). I edited the post to add the smithsonian link: I don't think people will confuse rumour with fact (this is a site about mythology)." CreationDate="2015-06-01T21:06:17.717" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3181" PostId="873" Score="2" Text="We seem to disagree about what should be cited and what should not on this site; no doubt a consensus will emerge in time. But it is EXTREMELY impolite to edit my post to add in something I have twice said I do not want." CreationDate="2015-06-01T21:33:13.453" UserId="131" />
  <row Id="3182" PostId="873" Score="0" Text="Let us [continue this discussion in chat](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/24364/discussion-between-christofian-and-timlymington)." CreationDate="2015-06-01T21:37:28.107" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3191" PostId="875" Score="1" Text="This is a great answer. As a very tangential follow-up question: do you happen to know if there is an english translation of Li Gongzuo works available somewhere (I can't seem to find anything on amazon or on gutenberg project)?" CreationDate="2015-06-03T06:57:58.760" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="3192" PostId="875" Score="1" Text="@plannapus Hmm, I thought *The Governor of Nanke* at least would be available, but I've had no luck tracking down a free translation online. A translation by William Nienhauser features in [*The Shorter Columbia Anthology of Traditional Chinese Literature*](https://books.google.com/books?id=sV3ZzccfeC8C&amp;lpg=PT20), though." CreationDate="2015-06-03T07:50:43.540" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3193" PostId="875" Score="0" Text="well I guess it's already something. Thanks!" CreationDate="2015-06-03T07:53:15.790" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="3190" PostId="877" Score="8" Text="And for good measure [here is one of the most famous version of the myth in Ovid's Metamorphoses](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/26073/26073-h/Met_VIII-XI.html#bookVIII_fableVI)." CreationDate="2015-06-03T05:50:19.757" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="3216" PostId="878" Score="0" Text="Great question; hope to see more like it! Have you asked anyone from your tribe about this? They seem like they would be the most likely to know the answer." CreationDate="2015-06-05T01:06:27.553" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3220" PostId="878" Score="0" Text="@Christofian - I wouldn't have gotten this far without them." CreationDate="2015-06-05T03:01:55.500" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="3224" PostId="878" Score="1" Text="Could **[this article](http://www.jstor.org/stable/3628816?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents)** help?" CreationDate="2015-06-05T07:40:57.850" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="3225" PostId="878" Score="0" Text="@plannapus - Greatly. Without going through it in detail, I see at least 4 tribes on his list that are Siouxan, 2 of which are very closely related to Osage." CreationDate="2015-06-05T08:01:19.290" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="3259" PostId="880" Score="3" Text="I don't think what you describe as &quot;static&quot; makes sense. None of the major religions I'm familiar with evolved in such a way, all took hundreds of years to get the general shape we know today, and all are continuously evolving. Care to clarify, perhaps with a couple of examples?" CreationDate="2015-06-10T12:04:47.907" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3233" PostId="885" Score="5" Text="May I encourage you to [cite reputable sources](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/q/105/62) (e.g. not wikipedia)? Doing so makes it easy to know if your answer is right, and also provides starting points to users who would like to learn more about the topic. Specifically, I would like to see *quotes* from the Sanskrit scriptures that mention the colour of the gods. I would also like to see you elaborate (or use more quotes) when explaining the sentence &quot;He is in everything and everything is with in Him&quot;" CreationDate="2015-06-07T15:15:48.683" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4459" PostId="887" Score="3" Text="The link you gave does not support your position for the date. The early dates for Veda formation is as early as 1400 BCE, while the four Samhitas were &quot;probably complete&quot; (according to your same source) by 1000 BCE. I think it's incorrect to only call the Brahmanic Synthesis &quot;Hinduism&quot; properly, especially considering the term itself is too modern to arbitrarily apply to only one period in a long history of polytheistic worship." CreationDate="2016-02-20T19:48:42.770" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4461" PostId="887" Score="1" Text="@C.M.Weimer - The only date I gave is for the &quot;Hindu Synthesis&quot; (see pages 12-13), not for the creation of the Vedas or the Samhitas. It's *somewhat* arbitrary, yes, but seems to be the best definition available.  If we don't make a distinction somewhere, the question is rendered unanswerable, since anything that comes before becomes a de facto part of Hinduism." CreationDate="2016-02-21T07:14:25.890" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4463" PostId="887" Score="2" Text="I was referring to this one, &quot;Hinduism is generally considered to have begun around 500-200 BCE.&quot; I don't disagree with your above assessment, I just think it hides a lot of the older historical processes that shape Indian polytheism. It should at least be clarified." CreationDate="2016-02-21T15:34:28.167" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3242" PostId="888" Score="2" Text="+1. When I went looking Friday, I did run across this modern attempt to conflate the UP and proper snake stories, so this is a line of scholarly thought. As near as I can tell, the snake stories were mostly a [Musckoegan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muskogean_languages)(generally south-eastern) thing. One source even had a map showing snake tribes, UP tribes, and tribes that had both. Not as pretty as your map though. :-)" CreationDate="2015-06-08T18:42:02.737" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="3243" PostId="888" Score="1" Text="+1 great answer. I just have one question: you say `&quot;I have seen some sources that dispute the usefulness of that model [Southeastern Ceremonial Complex]&quot;` -- could you cite those sources? It's not that I doubt you, it's that I'm interested in learning more." CreationDate="2015-06-08T18:59:57.037" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3244" PostId="888" Score="0" Text="@T.E.D. Pretty!  That map is ugly as homemade sin.  The text is comic sans, for pity's sake.  I just couldn't find a better one online.  At any rate though, yes, I am (obviously) convinced by the case made to equate the two forms." CreationDate="2015-06-08T19:01:30.477" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3245" PostId="888" Score="1" Text="@Christofian - Here's the one I came across recently:  [Farewell to the Southeastern Ceremonial Complex](http://www.jstor.org/stable/40713375?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents)" CreationDate="2015-06-08T19:03:51.740" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3246" PostId="888" Score="2" Text="@femtoRgon - Well, it has color, shading, and location dots. So its +3 right there. I will admit that modern Americans rendering defunct tribal names in Comic Sans is literally adding insult to injury. :-)" CreationDate="2015-06-08T19:06:37.680" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="6022" PostId="888" Score="0" Text="&quot;That map is ugly as homemade sin.&quot; -- It's also a bit troubling from what it includes. Fort Ancient and Serpent Mound are from a different culture than the other sites; I believe they're newer than the Mississippian sites." CreationDate="2016-07-01T13:22:43.853" UserId="282" />
  <row Id="3250" PostId="891" Score="1" Text="May I encourage you to [cite reputable sources](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/q/105/62) (e.g. not wikipedia)? Specifically, I would like to see a source for `Long before written records gods and their histories were alive in the myths of the people` (that isn't wikipedia and specifically discusses the greek religion). Same for `Changes and growth would be slow and not out of random creativity, but of religious needs as the environment changed`" CreationDate="2015-06-09T13:52:03.407" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3251" PostId="891" Score="1" Text="In addition, &quot;Apocalyptic religions&quot; are not exclusively semetic: off the top of my head, [the aztec also had quasi end-of-the-world prophesies](http://publishingarchaeology.blogspot.com/2011/12/did-maya-predict-end-of-world-in-2012.html). Could you cite a source for this as well, or be more specific in your definition of Apocalyptic?" CreationDate="2015-06-09T14:01:01.297" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3252" PostId="891" Score="1" Text="And while I'm at it, I'm not sure what your example of the Christian memorial service demonstrates: the fact that deeply held beliefs were changed slowly over time with christianity has does not prove that the greek religion also changed slowly over time." CreationDate="2015-06-09T14:07:10.283" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3254" PostId="891" Score="2" Text="@Christofian  It is my opinion.You are free to give your answer with scholarly references, as this is not my field and I do not have access to libraries. Semetic because of the region, not many races on this part of the mediteranean.  My opinion is that religion is a collective expression of an  inherent human desire for the existence of a divine realm,  and cultural traits change slowly even if a specific event of divine revelation happens in time , and changes  are slowly assimilated by the many. Apocalyptic in the greek meaning of &quot;revelation&quot; with the english meaning &quot;something revealed&quot;" CreationDate="2015-06-09T16:06:38.817" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="3255" PostId="891" Score="0" Text="continued: not the later developed meaning of &quot;end of the world&quot; from the content of the biblical Revelations" CreationDate="2015-06-09T16:09:16.587" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="4757" PostId="892" Score="0" Text="i think it is more likely her father was Ouranus for Greek. it could be different in roman." CreationDate="2016-04-30T02:43:07.140" UserDisplayName="user1519" />
  <row Id="3281" PostId="898" Score="3" Text="Do you mean myths originating from experiences of the last glacial period?  With the first instances writing around 3200 BCE in Mesopotamia, and the last glacial period ending around 12000 BCE, that would require an uninterrupted oral tradition spanning at least 9000 years.  Which, to me, seems...unlikely." CreationDate="2015-06-11T17:21:10.243" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3286" PostId="898" Score="1" Text="I stumbled on this by chance this morning: The  Vendidad &quot;...The first chapter is dualistic creation myth, followed by the description of a destructive winter comparable with the great floods of various other mythologies.&quot; Some claim this &quot;destructive winter&quot; or &quot;evil winters&quot; is a reference to the last glacial period." CreationDate="2015-06-12T18:43:11.713" UserId="419" />
  <row Id="3287" PostId="898" Score="3" Text="As for oral traditions consider &quot;Recent studies show that Aboriginal traditions record sea level change over the past 10,000 years.&#xA;&#xA;Other studies suggest the volcanic eruptions that formed the Eacham, Euramo and Barrine crater lakes in northern Queensland more than 10,000 years ago are recorded in oral tradition.&#xA;&#xA;In addition to demonstrating the longevity of Indigenous oral traditions, emerging research shows that these stories can lead to new scientific discoveries. Aboriginal stories about objects falling from the sky have led scientists to meteorite finds they would not have known about.&quot;" CreationDate="2015-06-12T19:00:20.357" UserId="419" />
  <row Id="3300" PostId="898" Score="3" Text="@BobB where are you getting those quotes?" CreationDate="2015-06-13T17:27:14.293" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3301" PostId="898" Score="1" Text="It seemed unlikely to me, but looking up what you've referenced, it appears I may have to stand corrected!  Sounds like you've the makings of a good answer now, yourself.  If so, you shouldn't hesitate to answer your own question.  Not only is that allowed, you are [explicitly encouraged to self-answer](http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2011/07/its-ok-to-ask-and-answer-your-own-questions/)." CreationDate="2015-06-13T18:35:09.100" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3307" PostId="898" Score="0" Text="@BobB Any archaeologist worth his weight will consult local myths. There's almost always a seed of truth in them." CreationDate="2015-06-14T06:25:04.677" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="3275" PostId="902" Score="0" Text="Eh? Orestes, of course. The tragedy tells the story of his revenge, I'd thought he wouldn't be easy to forget." CreationDate="2015-06-11T12:39:13.737" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3276" PostId="902" Score="0" Text="Its not Orestes. The person who I am talking about was never referred to by name in the book." CreationDate="2015-06-11T13:04:54.870" UserId="421" />
  <row Id="3282" PostId="902" Score="0" Text="​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​What book? There's no mention of another brother in the play (check out [this translation](http://classics.mit.edu/Sophocles/electra.html) for example). Could it be that the book you've read wasn't particularly faithful to the original material?" CreationDate="2015-06-11T17:28:42.327" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3283" PostId="902" Score="0" Text="The book I am refering to is part of the dover thrift collection, here is a link to it on google books:   https://books.google.com/books?id=844G8qkdfX4C&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;source=gbs_ge_summary_r&amp;cad=0" CreationDate="2015-06-11T18:28:25.953" UserId="421" />
  <row Id="3284" PostId="903" Score="0" Text="Love the sources. +1. Quick question: do Burkert and Athinon explicitly discuss greek mythology, or are they just talking about myths in general?" CreationDate="2015-06-11T22:23:04.313" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3312" PostId="903" Score="1" Text="Burkert's volume is exclusively about Greek Religion. &quot;Elliniki Mithologia&quot; is also exclusively about Greek Mythology. And while both discuss all kinds of connections with other peoples' mythologies, these specific passages are exclusively about greek mythology." CreationDate="2015-06-15T07:00:52.110" UserId="161" />
  <row Id="3285" PostId="904" Score="0" Text="yes, you are right! I was thinking of the Guardian. Thank you." CreationDate="2015-06-11T23:11:26.353" UserId="421" />
  <row Id="3289" PostId="912" Score="1" Text="This might be a better fit for movies.se: while we are the experts on mythology, we (theoretically) know nothing about the movie The Wicker Man and what its producers were intending in that specific scene." CreationDate="2015-06-12T22:31:16.880" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3290" PostId="912" Score="3" Text="yes but i though the mythical content in the movie was based on actual mythology.  so i though this is more material for mythology experts.  you don't need to know about the movie if you are familiar with the related mythology" CreationDate="2015-06-12T22:32:52.307" UserId="431" />
  <row Id="3291" PostId="912" Score="0" Text="basically, does someone familiar with celtic stuff recognize these three characters ??" CreationDate="2015-06-12T22:33:18.107" UserId="431" />
  <row Id="3313" PostId="915" Score="0" Text="Could you point me at some source for the link between Epona and the hobby-horse? I don't recall seeing it before, and I'm very interested in these characters." CreationDate="2015-06-15T12:11:43.860" UserId="37" />
  <row Id="3316" PostId="915" Score="0" Text="@JennyD - I wasn't familiar with that tradition until having read your answer.  I saw a myth that seemed to fit the film well.  As far as a documented link between them, a bit of poking around, I see reference to such a proposed link in an article published in Folklore: &quot;Tertullian and Horse-Cults in Britain&quot;.  I haven't been able to actually find the article though, and the link sounds pretty questionable.  I find it hard *not* to see the Epona symbolism, but it is certainly possible that the resemblance is coincidental (fertility goddesses aren't exactly uncommon, after all)." CreationDate="2015-06-15T17:54:22.010" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3317" PostId="915" Score="0" Text="Thanks! I'll try to get hold of the article... Being interested in both sword-dances/mummers/guisers and in Celtic gods, I wonder that it never occurred to me before!" CreationDate="2015-06-15T18:34:16.947" UserId="37" />
  <row Id="3299" PostId="916" Score="1" Text="Quick question: what is your source(s) for the identification of the three characters (&quot;the fool,&quot; &quot;the hobbyhorse,&quot; etc.)?" CreationDate="2015-06-13T16:37:28.940" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3303" PostId="916" Score="0" Text="@Christofian &#xA;	&#xA;To start with, they were mentioned in the movie, and the description there pretty much matched what I've read elsewhere. Apart from that, I'm afraid that my main sources are &quot;those books that I still haven't unpacked since we moved&quot;... Possibly &quot;England's Dances&quot; by Douglas Kennedy and &quot;Introduction to English Folklore&quot; by Violet Alford." CreationDate="2015-06-13T19:14:05.880" UserId="37" />
  <row Id="3297" PostId="917" Score="0" Text="I might look into the connection with Christian creation myth and Norse creation myth. The world being reborn by water in Ragnarok sounds a lot like Christian creation myth." CreationDate="2015-06-13T16:08:53.900" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="3308" PostId="919" Score="1" Text="Very good answer." CreationDate="2015-06-14T12:57:43.970" UserId="436" />
  <row Id="3639" PostId="919" Score="1" Text="To add, there is also the differences between the interpretations of &quot;good&quot; vs &quot;evil&quot; before and after the adoption of Christianity. Before it, &quot;evil&quot; was generally defined as &quot;that which harms the community,&quot; and &quot;good&quot; was &quot;that which benefits the community&quot; (*We Are Our Deeds*). With the shift in definition from pertaining to acts vs pertaining to moral alignment, Loki also shifts toward morally evil." CreationDate="2015-08-31T16:13:08.750" UserId="705" />
  <row Id="3641" PostId="919" Score="1" Text="@Shauna Yes, we see this stark difference when comparing Judaism and Christianity. Judaism is far more interested in what you do, while Christianity is far more interested in your moral alignment. Christianity at its advent and for at least a millennium was novel in this approach to personal moral responsibility. Christianity even posited that actions that harm no one and even thoughts can be wrong while nearly no others do such a thing. My impression of Vikings is that they were quite immoral by Christian standards." CreationDate="2015-08-31T18:13:07.920" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="6831" PostId="919" Score="0" Text="The question was if Loki influenced any Christian myths, but the answer is all about how Loki is supposed to have been influenced by the Devil. There is really no reason why influence can not have gone in both directions. (And I really do not like the reasoning about how Loki is supposed to have changed over time: there is really very little material to use as support for any theory about the development of the mythology, and for Loki it is even more scarce than for other major characters)" CreationDate="2017-01-04T09:17:33.757" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6834" PostId="919" Score="0" Text="@andejons If you think Loki influenced Christianity more than the other way around, then provide an answer to that effect. As to your second complaint that Loki changing is an assumption, please refer to sources two, three, and four." CreationDate="2017-01-04T16:19:54.900" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="6835" PostId="919" Score="0" Text="@fredsbend The question as written is not &quot;who influenced who most?&quot; It's &quot;how did myths involving Loki influence Christian myths?&quot; That Christian myths might have influenced Loki is not an answer to that question. Source 2 is a dead link, 3 is unavailable through Google books (but seems to be a popular history by a non-expert), and 4 also has this to say:  &quot;it is unclear how much of [Loki's] evil was rewritten by Christians and how much was part of pagan Norse tradition&quot;." CreationDate="2017-01-04T16:31:53.720" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6836" PostId="919" Score="0" Text="@andejons When it comes to Christianity, the assumption is often that other myths influences Christianity. The question is reasonable as is, and so is my answer. If you have a better answer to offer then do it. I'll work on reviving the dead link." CreationDate="2017-01-04T17:48:16.883" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="6837" PostId="919" Score="0" Text="@andejons Source three loads for me ... It seems Jonathan Clements, the author of source three, is indeed not educated in history, however, his resume indicates a long list of non-fiction research. Source three itself, as you said, is a popular resource and well referenced itself. I believe it stands as a quality source." CreationDate="2017-01-04T18:00:28.387" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="6838" PostId="919" Score="0" Text="@andejons You're complaint on source four is a classic cherry pick." CreationDate="2017-01-04T18:03:37.333" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="6840" PostId="919" Score="2" Text="Minor point, but always worth mentioning the binding and torment of Loki is a close parallel of the binding of Prometheus, a similar trickster figure.  So while the demonization of Loki may be Christian in origin, this particular aspect of his story almost certainly has earlier roots." CreationDate="2017-01-04T18:54:07.953" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6843" PostId="919" Score="1" Text="@Duke I recall one of the sources saying as much. I can update to that effect later." CreationDate="2017-01-04T20:31:09.337" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="6844" PostId="919" Score="0" Text="@fredsbend Now I got source 3 to load. It says &quot;Loki had perhaps been influenced by several centuries of Christian lore&quot; - i.e. this is speculation, not something claimed as fact. And as for source four, I find it quite insulting that first you pick one quote which supports your claim, and then accuse me of cherry-picking when I quote the very next sentence which modifies this claim. Either way, neither of these two sources claims that it is possible to clearly separate &quot;early&quot; from &quot;late&quot; stories." CreationDate="2017-01-04T20:52:35.203" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6845" PostId="919" Score="0" Text="@andejons Okay. You've aired your complaints, presumably down voted, and I've rejected your complaints as worth addressing. I hope to see your own answer soon." CreationDate="2017-01-04T21:36:00.743" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="3309" PostId="920" Score="1" Text="From the #2 source above: &quot;...An Ojibwa Indian legend from around Lake Superior tells of a great snow that fell one September at the beginning of time: A bag contained the sun's heat until a mouse nibbled a hole in it. The warmth spilled over, melting the snow and producing a flood that rose above the tops of the highest pines.&quot; Could well be a reference to the ice age. Glacial Lake Missoula is not far. The many ancient shore lines are easily seen stepping up the mountain sides. It damned up and broke many times." CreationDate="2015-06-14T21:04:02.597" UserId="419" />
  <row Id="3311" PostId="920" Score="0" Text="@BobB Yes, I certainly think it's possible, but it's one of those things that's *realy* hard to get any concrete evidence for." CreationDate="2015-06-15T05:01:52.770" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="3327" PostId="922" Score="0" Text="Does this help: https://books.google.com/books?id=BE9pAwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA555&amp;lpg=PA555&amp;dq=gefjun+ox+son&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=MQAPgyX7-t&amp;sig=4U2j1SwU-NLC4AL_ySul1jvIFrg&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0CEMQ6AEwBmoVChMIraqD7ZWVxgIVCPeACh3hEQCl#v=onepage&amp;q=gefjun%20ox%20son&amp;f=false" CreationDate="2015-06-16T21:37:12.673" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3320" PostId="927" Score="0" Text="from the point of view of the greek language charm is very close to χαρμα  from Perseus &quot;source of joy, delight&quot; http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=xarma&amp;la=greek" CreationDate="2015-06-16T15:23:51.490" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="3321" PostId="927" Score="2" Text="Are you sure you don't mean &quot;enchant&quot;, rather than &quot;charm&quot;?  The etymology is similar, but as far as I can tell:  Encantadora and enchant both derive from the latin &quot;incantare&quot;, while charm derives from the latin &quot;carmen&quot;." CreationDate="2015-06-16T16:02:04.683" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3322" PostId="927" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon nice point, but it might not be a mistake: even in Italian &quot;incantare&quot; (&quot;to enchant&quot;) also kind-of means &quot;to charm&quot;." CreationDate="2015-06-16T17:27:11.007" UserId="254" />
  <row Id="3323" PostId="927" Score="0" Text="@Lohoris - The same can be said of the english words, and the meanings of the latin root words are similar as well.  I don't necessarily know whether it's a mistake, but I think it could stand clarification." CreationDate="2015-06-16T17:35:42.653" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="7085" PostId="928" Score="0" Text="Seems like there are some misreadings here. The frost giants are under the second root, while Niflheim is under the third, so they are clearly separate. Also, Niflhel is not obviously the same as Niflheim." CreationDate="2017-02-15T20:51:16.353" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="3319" PostId="929" Score="1" Text="Interesting.. I was sure that Odin was the one who decides first, after all, he's the All Father." CreationDate="2015-06-16T14:08:15.063" UserId="79" />
  <row Id="3324" PostId="929" Score="2" Text="Sometimes saying one character makes a &quot;choice&quot; is just he prose of the poem. Sometimes it's not actually their choice at all. I haven't read it yet, but if the work is about Freyja and Folkvang, then this makes some sense." CreationDate="2015-06-16T19:49:07.740" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="3347" PostId="929" Score="1" Text="Playing Devil's Advocate, couldn't Freyja just be referring to choosing from those alive - i.e. choosing who lives and who dies?" CreationDate="2015-06-18T19:15:53.213" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3375" PostId="929" Score="2" Text="​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​@HDE226868 Thanks, that comment pushed me to the right direction. It turns out it's Odin's valkyries that choose who lives and who dies, so I think it could be argued that Odin has already chosen long before Freyja picks her &quot;half of the slain&quot;." CreationDate="2015-06-21T20:21:47.360" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3344" PostId="931" Score="0" Text="I think I have a lot to read! Thank you very much for the sources! :)" CreationDate="2015-06-18T14:37:27.047" UserId="440" />
  <row Id="3325" PostId="933" Score="0" Text="+1. Just one question: could you specify which translation your using (in case someone wants to go verify the quote/read more? Also, your answer is an example of why most online &quot;encyclopedias&quot; about myths are wrong: they usually don't cite sources and combine different versions of myths, so inaccuracies inevitably creep in." CreationDate="2015-06-16T21:15:59.093" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3326" PostId="933" Score="0" Text="However, keep in mind that the encyclopedia michaelpri cited may have been based on a different version of the myth. So while I doubt that michaelpri was wrong, we won't be able to very their answer using the sources cited there." CreationDate="2015-06-16T21:18:57.857" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3328" PostId="933" Score="1" Text="I was using H. G. Evelyn-White's with my own glosses. You can find it for free on Sacred-Texts.com. Also, I checked the standard references (M. L. West *Theogony* 1969 being the big one, but also Lopez-Ruiz's *Gods, Myths, and Monsters*, which has the Phoenician and Orphic cosmogonies. Neither those nor Apollonius has the version cited. I think they encyclopedia writer just didn't consult the proper sources. They make other minor mistakes, like calling the adamantine [ἀδάμαντος] sickle Cronus used on Uranus &quot;diamond&quot;." CreationDate="2015-06-17T05:24:46.583" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3329" PostId="933" Score="0" Text="Diamond is a valid (and somewhat common) translation for &quot;ἀδαμάντινος&quot;." CreationDate="2015-06-17T06:34:29.497" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3331" PostId="933" Score="1" Text="See: http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=1212&amp;context=lsj&amp;action=hw-list-click - This of course is nothing but a minor nitpick, your answer is obviously correct and superior to the earlier one." CreationDate="2015-06-17T10:16:43.693" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3342" PostId="936" Score="1" Text="Yes, I thought that might have been the case. Plus, if there was beeswax, what's to have stopped the men from doing the same thing Odysseus feared he would have done? I probably did hear it as such, but forgot. Memory is a fickle thing, after all..." CreationDate="2015-06-18T08:51:50.413" UserDisplayName="user450" />
  <row Id="3346" PostId="936" Score="2" Text="Indeed, it can be!" CreationDate="2015-06-18T15:29:15.413" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3384" PostId="941" Score="1" Text="I searched , found a reference that the legend is recorded in N.Politis in &quot;Paradoseis&quot;. A lot of links with conjectures but no references" CreationDate="2015-06-23T08:45:00.617" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="4325" PostId="941" Score="0" Text="N. Politis is Nikolaos Politis, a late 19th century/early 20th century scholar who penned a two-volume study on Greek traditions called *Paradoseis*, so he is not the author of the story. I unfortunately do not have access to it nor can read modern Greek, but maybe Yannis can somehow get a hold of it and add to the answer below/offer his own answer." CreationDate="2016-01-31T19:40:13.523" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3359" PostId="943" Score="2" Text="Similar question on Christianity.SE:  http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/16223/why-did-god-accept-abels-offering-and-not-cains  And Biblical Hermeneutics.SE: http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/16905/why-did-god-accept-abels-offering-but-reject-cains" CreationDate="2015-06-19T18:57:06.963" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3431" PostId="943" Score="7" Text="The first case of someone looking with disdain at hipster/hippie vegans :)" CreationDate="2015-06-30T05:05:43.590" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="3432" PostId="943" Score="0" Text="I don't have good citations, so comment instead of an answer: but possibly the nutritious value of a ram is higher than that of a couple of fruits? Non-mythologically, this is pretty widely acceptable differentiation for anthropology." CreationDate="2015-06-30T05:10:11.640" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="3358" PostId="944" Score="3" Text="+1 +1 +1 +1 +1!!!! I'm curious: according to your profile, this is your first Stack Exchange site. How did you find out about the site?" CreationDate="2015-06-19T18:51:33.450" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3360" PostId="944" Score="3" Text="Funnily enough, I had a programming-related question for StackOverflow, which I've known about for years but never really utilized. I just happened to see that there were &quot;Stacks&quot; for this kind of stuff, saw Mythology, and here I am." CreationDate="2015-06-19T20:31:55.480" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3361" PostId="944" Score="1" Text="It may also have been an reflection of his attitude - Abel is generally accepted to have given his best, while Cain's attitude would seem to be more of a &quot;God will just have to like it&quot; kind of thing. A running motif throughout the Bible is that God wants you to serve because you WANT to, not because you have to." CreationDate="2015-06-19T21:00:35.750" UserId="457" />
  <row Id="3362" PostId="944" Score="3" Text="Unfortunately, the evidence for that interpretation is just not there in the text that survives." CreationDate="2015-06-19T21:12:06.260" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3363" PostId="944" Score="0" Text="How about simply the idea that even single animal is precious, whereas some portion of a crop isn't?  Until recently meat and animals were relatively expensive.  Giving them up was a hardship, especially &quot;fat portions&quot;.  So our modern ideas of what's valuable has changed, so it's harder to understand the story in context." CreationDate="2015-06-19T21:54:51.717" UserId="459" />
  <row Id="3364" PostId="946" Score="2" Text="I'm really sorry, but the purpose of this site is to analyse texts (like the bible) from an academic and literary perspective. While your answer did a good job placing the story into a broader religious/theological perspective, that is not what this site is for. May I recommend that you try participating in Stack Exchange's [Jewish](http://judaism.stackexchange.com/), [Christian](http://christianity.stackexchange.com/), or [Muslim](http://islam.stackexchange.com/) communities?" CreationDate="2015-06-20T01:35:07.970" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3365" PostId="946" Score="0" Text="@Christofian  Though you are correct that this is a religious explanation, it does give a handle though to the myths around  of sacrifice. Human sacrifices were very common, animals replaced humans as being able to bleed, so died instead of humans on the altars as late as the myth of Iphigenia. So the question reverts to why were the gods so bloodthirsty . that is a mythical line connecte to psychology, imo: the need to be worthy? the need to be safe? (take this instead of me) etc. In this sense God does not consider inanimate produce a proper replacement for self." CreationDate="2015-06-20T08:08:28.500" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="3405" PostId="946" Score="0" Text="@annav I'm confused.  What in the world do human sacrifice and Iphigenia have to do with *this* answer?  Did this comment get posted in the wrong place?" CreationDate="2015-06-25T17:35:46.160" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3406" PostId="946" Score="1" Text="@femtoRgon you are correct. It is the conversation with Christofian in my answer. Any way he saw it since the name alerts," CreationDate="2015-06-25T18:30:16.797" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="3366" PostId="947" Score="1" Text="May I encourage you to [cite reputable sources](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/q/105/62) (e.g. not wikipedia)? Doing so makes it easy to know if your answer is right, and also provides starting points to users who would like to learn more about the topic." CreationDate="2015-06-20T14:32:38.767" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3367" PostId="947" Score="2" Text="@Christofian  I suppose the Iphigenia myth is well known so did not look around for a link. The rest is my opinion as I state. It is unfortunate that you and maybe others consider wikipedia unreliable for mythology. I have found it fairly good for physics ( my field) at least with non controversial subjects (most of physics). Mythology I remember from my student years and am interested in reading  about it., and am sometimes moved to say my opinion/interpretation. If this is against the rules, then I won't." CreationDate="2015-06-20T15:03:05.297" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="3368" PostId="947" Score="0" Text="There is also a type of honoring of the gods called libations, in which olive oil, milk, wine, honey, or even water is poured out. There's no blood there, and yet it was still acceptable." CreationDate="2015-06-20T17:14:28.163" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3369" PostId="948" Score="1" Text="I should point out that would only generalize it in a geographic sense. The Indian mythos, like most of the European ones, were likely descended from the [same source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion)." CreationDate="2015-06-20T17:28:46.457" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="7018" PostId="948" Score="3" Text="When I was a kid my grandparents (who live in village, North India) told me to sleep early and asked not to go anywhere in the fields at night because wraiths on horseback kidnap/kills intruders. I remember very little, not sure if they were serious about it" CreationDate="2017-01-25T15:30:39.107" UserId="3389" />
  <row Id="3372" PostId="949" Score="2" Text="I have removed that particular section from the wikipedia article, as your answer shows that the article was inaccurate: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wild_Hunt&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=667863529&amp;oldid=667487572" CreationDate="2015-06-21T03:31:35.210" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3373" PostId="949" Score="1" Text="That's probably for the best. I think the author of the (very, very short) article was going for wasn't an ancient tradition, but a universal fact, that we shouldn't assume it's only European but could be a *human* phenomenon. If the section is left in, that part should be made clear." CreationDate="2015-06-21T05:21:14.357" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3374" PostId="950" Score="1" Text="This question would be easier to answer if we knew what your &quot;morning paper&quot; is. Could you cite the source of the quote?" CreationDate="2015-06-21T15:12:58.690" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3376" PostId="950" Score="0" Text="It was an op-ed, and the version I quoted above has *more* detail than the version in the paper, so providing the context of the newspaper doesn't add anything." CreationDate="2015-06-21T20:44:09.453" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="3379" PostId="950" Score="0" Text="it does: someone may be familiar with that paper/author and know why they used that quote. It's not likely, but it is *possible*." CreationDate="2015-06-21T23:27:05.737" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3377" PostId="952" Score="0" Text="That's the web page I copied my source quote from, but I couldn't find anything beyond that or anything with more detail, which is why I'm asking here." CreationDate="2015-06-21T20:44:56.150" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="3380" PostId="952" Score="2" Text="you should have provided the link if you knew it. In any case  nothing relevant came up  with a wide search. it is a morality story appropriate for parsons , their creation in my opinion," CreationDate="2015-06-22T03:04:39.080" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="3381" PostId="952" Score="0" Text="Yeah, nothing I've heard of either. I'm with Anna on this one." CreationDate="2015-06-22T04:47:29.797" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3378" PostId="953" Score="0" Text="Interesting; I had started to do some research along the lines of the Valkyries, but couldn't dig up anything substantial besides what's in the Gylfaginning. Nice job." CreationDate="2015-06-21T22:33:44.893" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3388" PostId="959" Score="2" Text="A similar concept would be the [golem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem). They aren't usually smart, but they obey orders and serve their masters loyally." CreationDate="2015-06-23T20:18:56.927" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="3382" PostId="960" Score="0" Text="Thank you.  Loaded up the game to get the quote I was thinking of about Talos having intelligence.  Not that I imagine it changes anything about your answer, but as a point of interest." CreationDate="2015-06-23T03:27:50.397" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3383" PostId="960" Score="0" Text="​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​@femtoRgon Hm, I guess it could be argued that Talos is somewhat intelligent for a machine. His sensory abilities are exceptional, which means he is capable of at least basic pattern recognition. And of course he is capable of taking appropriate action when a threat is detected.  That said, I don't know any version of the legend where Talos speaks. As for the cause of his downfall, see: [How and why was Talos killed?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/218/57)" CreationDate="2015-06-23T03:48:51.073" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3387" PostId="960" Score="0" Text="Definitely seems to me that Apollodorus was the source in use here.  If we accept him being created by Hephaestus, and that he was brought low after Medea promised him immortality (which carries *some* implication of his independent desires and capacity for speech), [*and ignore all the rest of it*](https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Confirmation_bias), then I think that establishes the Talos that the &quot;Straton of Stageira&quot; quote if referring to." CreationDate="2015-06-23T19:19:44.423" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3390" PostId="960" Score="2" Text="@femtoRgon Apollodorus is probably the source, yes. While the Argonautica is the more famous story, Apollodorus Library, being a compendium of myths, is where I'd look first to get the basis of a constructed quote. Btw &quot;Straton of Stageira&quot; is probably a reference to Aristotle: Stageira was his birthplace (and all its known for), and Stratonikeia (Stratoni today) was the closest city to Stageira." CreationDate="2015-06-24T06:53:26.387" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3389" PostId="961" Score="0" Text="The only related description  I have found in ancient Greece is in Hesiod who described it as &quot;flaming dragons in the sky&quot;, no mythology per se . http://www.astro.noa.gr/journal/Periodic/journal_10daglis.htm , in greek" CreationDate="2015-06-24T05:37:46.893" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="3391" PostId="961" Score="1" Text="Hello Valerie and welcome to Mythology. I see three distinct questions here, one in the title and two in the question body. Overly broad questions don't really work with the Q&amp;A philosophy and format of our site, do you think it would be possible to focus this to a single question?" CreationDate="2015-06-24T07:47:51.687" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="12174" PostId="963" Score="0" Text="Also worth mentioning that the mythological origin of the Hebrews was &quot;[Ur of the Chaldees](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur_of_the_Chaldees)&quot; in Sumeria, from when Abraham, after knocking over idols, fled." CreationDate="2019-12-26T20:28:03.280" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="15810" PostId="963" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Also, that the [Chaldeans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaldea) didn't arrive on the scene until, at earliest,  the 11th Century  BC, which would have been well after Abraham." CreationDate="2022-01-15T15:26:56.020" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="3392" PostId="965" Score="0" Text="Freyja, the Norse goddess of - amongst other things - love, sex, war, and death might also qualify." CreationDate="2015-06-24T09:37:22.830" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="3398" PostId="966" Score="1" Text="I don't think linking to your blog would break any rules in this case, as you've been an active contributor for some time now. However, right now your answer is a &quot;link only answer&quot; -- it would be great if you could summarize what the blog post said." CreationDate="2015-06-24T20:20:54.327" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3408" PostId="966" Score="0" Text="Okay - the condensed vesion. The Canadian Inuit saw them as dead souls playing football in the sky, and in Maine the Passmaquoddy also saw a ball game in the aurora. Another explanation from the Inuit was that they were spirits who died violently, an idea shared by the West Coast Tlinglit Indians. The Lapps said they were fighting in the air, still fighting after death. A more cheerful view came from the Scots and Norwegians, who saw them as dancers. Both the Maori and Aborigines saw them as fires in the sky. (This is a broad, thematic summary.)" CreationDate="2015-06-25T23:22:38.490" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="3410" PostId="966" Score="0" Text="see: http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/8231/are-answers-that-just-contain-links-elsewhere-really-good-answers (tldr -- I read the article, it's just that Stack Exchange discourages people from writing answers that solely consist of a link)" CreationDate="2015-06-25T23:28:44.797" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3412" PostId="966" Score="2" Text="@solsdottir I hope you don't mind: I added the content of your comment to your answer, so the answer is self-contained." CreationDate="2015-06-26T07:12:13.113" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="3401" PostId="967" Score="0" Text="&quot;...she proceeds to destory him&quot; that's not how I remember it (see [chapter 15](http://adminstaff.vassar.edu/sttaylor/Cooley/LochMor.html))" CreationDate="2015-06-25T03:56:09.903" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3407" PostId="967" Score="0" Text="Point taken - she does do her best to kill him, however, and if I understand [link](http://adminstaff.vassar.edu/sttaylor/Cooley/Decision.html)ch. 26, she goes about stirring up strife between the two sides. I was thinking of the famous statue of Cuchulain with the raven on his shoulder.  I think the larger point that she is an erotic and destructive goddess still holds." CreationDate="2015-06-25T22:58:28.987" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="3409" PostId="967" Score="0" Text="Ah!  The bird is part of [the tale of his death](http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cuch/lgc23.htm).  After being mortally wounded by Lugaid, he ties himself to [a stone](http://curiousireland.ie/cuchulainn-stone-or-clochafarmore-knockbridge-co-louth/) before expiring, and his enemies are afraid to approach in case he might yet live, until a bird flies up and settles on his shoulder.  I don't know of any indication the bird is the Morrigan (or even a raven) though.  But yes, I agree that the Morrigan is a good example." CreationDate="2015-06-25T23:28:34.263" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3413" PostId="972" Score="0" Text="Interesting question. Does it really need the &quot;christianity&quot; tag? I understand the thought that sparked this question, but maybe the answers are not related to &quot;christianity&quot; at all?" CreationDate="2015-06-26T14:31:13.277" UserId="171" />
  <row Id="3414" PostId="972" Score="2" Text="Thanks, Deion, for your question, which is a logical one. While the possible examples from other myths that I'm asking about (i.e., the answers) would come from outside Christianity, this whole issue arises in the context of Christianity because this notion is being used to characterize St. Paul's Christology (arguing that he had this myth of Christ dying and resurrecting entirely in heaven) and in an effort to prove that Christ did not exist, i.e,. that Christ is a myth. So that's why included the Christianity tag." CreationDate="2015-06-26T14:41:12.893" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="7515" PostId="972" Score="0" Text="I love this question and couldn't resist plugging one of my favorite Yeats plays, [The Resurrection](https://www.scribd.com/doc/75962581/The-Resurrection-W-B-Yeats) which deals with the problem of interpretation relating to such subjects. :)" CreationDate="2017-04-20T15:59:18.023" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6480" PostId="973" Score="0" Text="Or maybe the ugliness is chiral." CreationDate="2016-10-28T17:55:41.633" UserId="3112" />
  <row Id="6481" PostId="973" Score="0" Text="@AntonSherwood  possibly :)" CreationDate="2016-10-28T19:25:49.993" UserId="151" />
  <row Id="7126" PostId="973" Score="0" Text="Also, the image in that mirror is so blurry it may not even carry the sense of ugliness. Even the best &quot;mirrors&quot; of that time were barely similar to what we call a mirror. And a bronze shield? With forge marks and hammer dents and stains and rivets? And probably not even polished all that well?" CreationDate="2017-03-01T02:15:34.880" UserId="3499" />
  <row Id="14027" PostId="976" Score="0" Text="Ušumgallu, or Sumerian ušum.gal, meaning &quot;great dragon&quot;, would be one of the earliest representations of what we envision as the modern day definition of a western dragon, in that it is serpent-like, with wings and four legs. Found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ušumgallu" CreationDate="2020-11-20T18:14:20.370" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="14054" PostId="976" Score="0" Text="The answer by HDE 226868 is accurate that the Sumerian civilization is the oldest example of dragons. The Sumerian Ušumgal  ushum.gal, meaning &quot;great dragon&quot; and Ušum meaning &quot;dragon&quot; would be one of the earliest representations of what we envision as the modern day definition of a western dragon, in that it is serpent-like, with wings and four legs. Here is a link to the information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ušumgallu" CreationDate="2020-11-21T15:35:51.663" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="3420" PostId="978" Score="1" Text="Thanks, Christofian, for sharing these interesting myths. I vaguely remember the one from Popol-Vuh, but the others are new to me and I will look them up, especially before traveling to Peru, which I hope will be soon! In my research, practically speaking I'm seeking a precedent that could have actually influenced the creation of any alleged Christ myth that had him dying and resurrecting in heaven, which should mean that we need a myth from the ancient Near East, Egypt, or Mediterranean, rather than elsewhere. I'll now edit my question to clarify this." CreationDate="2015-06-28T02:49:23.483" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="3423" PostId="978" Score="0" Text="@ArthurGeorge sorry about that. If you don't mind, I'll leave this answer up: it might be helpful to someone else who has a similar question." CreationDate="2015-06-28T15:08:45.560" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3425" PostId="978" Score="0" Text="Sure, it is still interesting. And I Liked it." CreationDate="2015-06-28T15:15:30.593" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="7516" PostId="978" Score="0" Text="agreed!  This is excellent context." CreationDate="2017-04-20T16:01:24.717" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="3427" PostId="980" Score="1" Text="Could you give us one or two examples of the internet sources that claim &quot;the story of Jesus was heavily inspired by the ancient Egyptian god Horus&quot;? It would give us a better idea of the arguments being made, and would help this question get a better answer." CreationDate="2015-06-29T12:18:17.003" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3428" PostId="980" Score="0" Text="@Christofian Added some more famous people making the claim. It's unfortunately a well-known claim among some circles." CreationDate="2015-06-29T13:51:07.737" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3429" PostId="980" Score="2" Text="Don't know enough Egyptian to go into detail (perhaps that's what some are hoping for in making these claims), but I do know that it is Osiris, not Horus, that was killed and resurrected. He was typically dismembered too (the stories about his death vary greatly). I find the site's &quot;frequently interchangeable&quot; language to cover this quite unconvincing at best, and more likely intentionally misleading. But again I'm no expert." CreationDate="2015-06-29T17:51:58.423" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="3430" PostId="980" Score="0" Text="Christiofian: Acharya S detailed this claim about Horus at www.stellarhousepublishing.com/washoruscrucified.html" CreationDate="2015-06-30T02:33:13.390" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="3439" PostId="980" Score="1" Text="@Christofian This claim and others like it have been circling around for a long time. The Zeitgeist &quot;documentary&quot; popularized it all in the internet/conspiracy theorist community." CreationDate="2015-07-01T20:02:50.277" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="3440" PostId="980" Score="0" Text="Related: [How do Christians respond to and/or explain the similarities between other societies' Gods and that of Jesus](http://christianity.stackexchange.com/a/20238) on Christianity.SE. And: [Claimed similarities between Jesus Christ and Horus and other Gods](http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q/1678) on Skeptics.SE. When skeptics and believers agree it's probably the truth." CreationDate="2015-07-01T20:03:33.250" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="6600" PostId="983" Score="0" Text="Excellent answer!  The psychological analysis is quite valuable.  From the perspective of an artist, I have to wonder if the introduction of the shield, which seems to come later, was initially simply an interpolation by some storyteller to &quot;punch up&quot; the narrative." CreationDate="2016-12-03T21:22:55.477" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16400" PostId="983" Score="0" Text="You should probably also challenge the idea that Medusa was &quot;ugly&quot;; I don't believe she was ever described as such." CreationDate="2023-06-10T15:57:40.633" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="3441" PostId="984" Score="1" Text="&quot;Horuss**t&quot; ROFL. If you have a related article on your blog, you can use that as a source, but just plain unrelated links are frowned upon." CreationDate="2015-07-01T20:08:21.420" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="6953" PostId="984" Score="1" Text="Tertullian's interpretation of Moses' arms spread out is a typography, and that is very common in Christianity. It's basically an anachronistic approach to what Christians call the Old Testament, however it is considered legitimate theology among most of them. Nearly every Old Testament hero is called a &quot;type of Christ&quot;." CreationDate="2017-01-17T19:34:03.017" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="3442" PostId="986" Score="0" Text="Thanks, for the helpful comment. I was not aware that some people have claimed that in this Stela's story Horus dies, so thanks for mentioning this. Accordingly, I've added a paragraph to my answer to make it more complete in this respect. I noticed that the Nunn book to which you referred also says Horus is only unconscious, not dead, so I included that in the references. Thanks for the reference." CreationDate="2015-07-01T23:36:11.177" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="3444" PostId="988" Score="2" Text="Inspired by [Arthur George's blog post that connects flaming wheels to the summer solstice](https://mythologymatters.wordpress.com/2015/06/19/summer-solstice-mythology-midsummer-night/). However, I am looking for an answer that specifically discusses the Ixion myth." CreationDate="2015-07-02T15:17:39.033" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3446" PostId="989" Score="0" Text="My question was (it may have been unclear due to how I worded it) was &quot;why was ixion associated with that specific punishment&quot;, i.e. is there any reason why his punishment was one associated with the sun. It may be that the reason is just that &quot;it's a horrible punishment&quot;, but I have a hunch that the reason may be more complicated than that." CreationDate="2015-07-03T00:16:39.487" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3447" PostId="989" Score="0" Text="(Also, +1 for the images)" CreationDate="2015-07-03T15:26:30.187" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3445" PostId="990" Score="3" Text="Is there evidence that the breaking wheel was used in ancient Greece though?  I'm no expert on the matter, but [wikipedia gives the earliest historical reference](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_wheel#History) to the punishment around the 6th century CE, which is about 1000 years *later* than Ixion's punishment was written of by [Pindar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pindar)" CreationDate="2015-07-02T23:10:35.897" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3463" PostId="990" Score="2" Text="Did a bit of further digging, from your update, and found some references to people being racked on a wheel, which might be of interest (from [Aristophanes](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0040%3Acard%3D850), [Demosthenes](http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi/citequery3.pl?dbname=GreekFeb2011&amp;getid=1&amp;query=Dem.%2029.40), and [Plutarch](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:abo:tlg,0007,038:30)).  No sure of any &quot;breaking&quot; involved with these references, but that would seem to make it fit all the better, to me." CreationDate="2015-07-06T17:55:30.097" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3454" PostId="993" Score="0" Text="I accepted this answer, not because you wrote the article, but because it made the most sense, included multiple interpretations, and had the best use of sources. That said, the other three answers were also very good. I'm glad my question (and your blog post) sparked this conversation." CreationDate="2015-07-04T23:43:16.983" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="7904" PostId="995" Score="0" Text="I am still a bit troubled by the &quot;threshold&quot; issue of whether these figures are truly mythic or merely allegorical. Is there even one *sacred story* (even a merely genealogical one like so much of *Theogony)* in which either lady appears as a character?" CreationDate="2017-07-24T15:52:39.423" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="3466" PostId="998" Score="7" Text="It really depends on what you mean. Current scholarly understanding of mythology has leaped so far beyond Frazer, that to use him in any paper beyond the rudimentary undergraduate paper would be considered poor scholarship. Many, if not most, of his interpretations were actually outdated upon publishing. I would *think* that means it's not worth your time, but again, it's relevant in a cultural way.&#xA;&#xA;Do you want me to turn this into a full-fledged answer, or is that acceptable?" CreationDate="2015-07-07T06:25:57.887" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3467" PostId="998" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer if you turn it into an answer, then I can accept it and give you credit/reputation" CreationDate="2015-07-07T22:22:53.180" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3470" PostId="998" Score="0" Text="OK, will get to that soon!" CreationDate="2015-07-10T02:27:55.597" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6599" PostId="999" Score="0" Text="Great answer.  The Golden Bough could almost could be said to comprise a modern &quot;mythology about mythology&quot;.  Frazer's influence also extends into the literary sphere, so one needs to have some familiarity when approaching work such as &quot;The Wasteland&quot;." CreationDate="2016-12-03T20:52:43.513" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="3468" PostId="1001" Score="3" Text="A town named after one of the Spartoi seems like a bit of a tortured route to establishing dragons in Greek mythology, when you could just go right to the story of Cadmus.  Or Ladon or Python, for that matter." CreationDate="2015-07-08T14:37:08.417" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3469" PostId="1002" Score="1" Text="See [this answer](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/866/131)." CreationDate="2015-07-09T17:01:59.347" UserId="131" />
  <row Id="3490" PostId="1002" Score="3" Text="That answer's more about the etymology of the word fairy, where I'm looking more at the individual myths / mythical creatures themselves." CreationDate="2015-07-14T21:12:33.773" UserId="140" />
  <row Id="3472" PostId="1004" Score="1" Text="What makes you feel that Pegasus is fighting the Hydra in this painting?" CreationDate="2015-07-10T12:11:07.590" UserId="521" />
  <row Id="3476" PostId="1004" Score="1" Text="It seemed reasonable from the posture of the creatures involved. The [wikiart](http://www.wikiart.org/en/odilon-redon/pegasus-and-the-hydra) is labeled as _Pegasus_ _and_ _the_ _Hydra_, leading one to believe that the two figures are Pegasus and Hydra, though the selected answer clears up this confusion." CreationDate="2015-07-11T04:10:36.843" UserId="517" />
  <row Id="6460" PostId="1007" Score="1" Text="Thanks for making a point of this: &quot;The problem with this question is that it asks for comparisons to a 'canonical Chinese mythology' which is not really a thing.&quot;  *Your scholarship is inspiring and puts my paltry scraps of learning to shame!*" CreationDate="2016-10-14T20:38:34.970" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="3482" PostId="1009" Score="0" Text="[This](http://www.shee-eire.com/Magic&amp;Mythology/Warriors&amp;Heroes/Heroines/Feidelm-the-prophetess/Page1.htm) implies that the *sidhe* have three pupils in each eye and that Fedelm is one of that race, but I have nothing else to confirm it." CreationDate="2015-07-12T17:48:01.263" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3483" PostId="1011" Score="0" Text="BTW, a frost giant, Ymir, was the first giant in existence. Odin killed him, and his corpse was turned into sky and ground, becoming the human realm of Midgard." CreationDate="2015-07-12T20:59:54.360" UserId="534" />
  <row Id="6969" PostId="1011" Score="0" Text="[Niðavellir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni%C3%B0avellir) is known as the home of the dwarves.  Is there a source that makes it also home to the Trolls?  (Did they have a separate home world or were they spread out in places like Midgard where they could accost humans?  (I seem to recall in [Peer Gynt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_Gynt) that Ibsen had the trolls living under a mountain on earth." CreationDate="2017-01-18T22:20:22.353" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6414" PostId="1013" Score="1" Text="[Proza-Edda magyarul](https://sites.google.com/site/gestrgangleri/proza-edda---magyarul)" CreationDate="2016-10-02T18:35:28.030" UserId="2809" />
  <row Id="6415" PostId="1013" Score="3" Text="@Neeshka Interesting. Looks like a translation project someone started, gave up after one chapter, and put online." CreationDate="2016-10-02T19:31:53.067" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="3495" PostId="1016" Score="0" Text="I have been reading a few time the text, but aren't there only two disclosers: Arthur and Gwrtheyrn? The latter disclosing both the bones of GtB and the dragons?" CreationDate="2015-07-16T08:41:45.490" UserId="428" />
  <row Id="3510" PostId="1016" Score="0" Text="@bilbo_pingouin I couldn't tell. I thought that it meant that Gwrtheyrn was only responsible for the bones, but I might have been completely wrong, looking it over again." CreationDate="2015-07-19T13:39:25.613" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3512" PostId="1016" Score="1" Text="Not quite an answer, but I've done some initial research and it seems like the triads were essentially a catalogue of welsh oral literature, almost all of which is now lost. It therefore seems unlikely that you will find a complete version of the story. I may turn this comment into an answer once I find more information." CreationDate="2015-07-20T04:17:55.333" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3502" PostId="1021" Score="0" Text="quick question: by `&quot;the type that would be communicated&quot;`, do you mean that the dream was communicated with the public?" CreationDate="2015-07-18T15:16:29.880" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3503" PostId="1021" Score="1" Text="The public/the royal court, yes." CreationDate="2015-07-18T15:50:38.547" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3513" PostId="1023" Score="0" Text="One explanation I read was that the mirror image meant the vampire's soul; the vampire had no soul, hence no mirror image." CreationDate="2015-07-20T05:17:56.397" UserId="58" />
  <row Id="3514" PostId="1023" Score="1" Text="@VixenPopuli I'm more interested in the myth's earliest use / origin than a description of it." CreationDate="2015-07-20T05:40:45.610" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="6046" PostId="1023" Score="0" Text="This is a duplicate of http://scifi.stackexchange.com/q/38466/4918 &quot;What is the origin of Stoker's idea that vampires' reflections cannot be seen?&quot;" CreationDate="2016-07-19T09:34:48.917" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="6048" PostId="1023" Score="0" Text="@b_jonas not really... I'm asking for the origin of the myth. The Answer is _Bram Stoker_. The question you linked is asking where Bram Stoker got the idea. Related yes, but not a duplicate." CreationDate="2016-07-19T09:41:03.783" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="3504" PostId="1024" Score="4" Text="Are you asking if the myth originated as an allegory, or if someone somewhere has turned it into an allegory? It's a yes to the latter, but a definite no to the former." CreationDate="2015-07-18T18:59:44.683" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3509" PostId="1024" Score="0" Text="I was looking for the latter. Could you please deepen the subject?" CreationDate="2015-07-19T12:43:54.443" UserId="545" />
  <row Id="3515" PostId="1024" Score="1" Text="I'd have to go back and reread some texts but I'm pretty sure it's tied the rise of European dominance over Asia." CreationDate="2015-07-19T18:13:07.387" UserDisplayName="user547" />
  <row Id="3505" PostId="1025" Score="2" Text="In its current form this question is too broad: I'm very sure that the meaning of sage is different between Asian cultures, and even between different Asian myths (i.e. one myth describes a sage differently from another). What is your source for `&quot;They are generally people who have 'transcended' humanity, possessing supernatural powers, and very long lifespans&quot;`? This question would be much better if it was about a specific story or portrayal of a &quot;sage&quot;." CreationDate="2015-07-18T20:34:44.353" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3506" PostId="1025" Score="1" Text="This is question #300." CreationDate="2015-07-18T20:47:59.797" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3507" PostId="1025" Score="0" Text="@Christofian &quot;Many translations of eastern martial arts feature sages&quot; -&gt; my sources are martial arts novels I've read, including chinese, japanese, and korean. The most recent one that I came across is the manhwa &quot;chronicles of the cursed sword&quot; (Yeo Beop Ryong, Park Hui Jin)." CreationDate="2015-07-19T00:02:56.760" UserDisplayName="anon" />
  <row Id="3508" PostId="1025" Score="2" Text="I realize that the portrayal will be different depending on the specific myth, but there should be common themes. That statement that particular aspects will be different in different myths is in itself &quot;too broad&quot;, as you can apply that to any story, myth or otherwise, for example, vampires. A specific portrayal of a sage would render the question moot. For example, if we take &quot;Heaven Rivaling Great Sage&quot;, the sage is a title, it means something, describing the monkey king as a  sage is different then describing a sage and attributing certain traits as why he has the title of sage." CreationDate="2015-07-19T00:05:53.637" UserDisplayName="anon" />
  <row Id="3518" PostId="1025" Score="0" Text="@ton.yeung could you at least specify a culture/tradition? I'm sure different cultures have vastly different portrayals of &quot;sages&quot;. I am also worried that the `&quot;martial arts novels&quot;` you cite are not accurate portrayals of eastern mythology." CreationDate="2015-07-20T22:43:49.840" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3519" PostId="1025" Score="1" Text="@Christofian Please define culture/tradition. From a top down view, Eastern, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, as posted in the OP. And yes, I agree that the MA novels are not accurate, which is why I'm asking for clarification. If I could read chinese, japanese, or korean, i would research it myself. Unfortunately, any english searches I do results in western (original) definitions and entomology of the word &quot;sage&quot;." CreationDate="2015-07-21T02:48:30.270" UserDisplayName="anon" />
  <row Id="3521" PostId="1030" Score="0" Text="Based on Christofian's research I would say that having multiple pupils is a general sign of power/prowess/importance more than any one specific meaning." CreationDate="2015-07-21T14:55:53.143" UserId="556" />
  <row Id="3579" PostId="1030" Score="0" Text="@eric its definitely related to the evil eye, though" CreationDate="2015-08-10T21:17:05.590" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3525" PostId="1033" Score="0" Text="I think normally this stack is not fond of people contributing entirely first-hand information. In this case I'm personally making an exception (so +1), rather than insisting you do something stupid like put this on a web page elsewhwere and link to it. Thank you so much!" CreationDate="2015-07-22T12:52:57.140" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="3526" PostId="1033" Score="0" Text="OOC: I notice [from Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauk_people#Clan_system) that your tribe also has a &quot;Thunder&quot; clan. That wouldn't happen to be a similarly encrypted name for Thunderbird, would it?" CreationDate="2015-07-22T12:56:38.673" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="3530" PostId="1033" Score="3" Text="@T.E.D. [related meta discussion](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/279/how-should-we-handle-contributions-written-from-the-perspective-of-religious-bel). I agree with you that we should be encouraging first hand accounts like this one. However, we should make sure that saying &quot;I'm part of culture x&quot; isn't a get out of jail free card from our academic standards." CreationDate="2015-07-22T14:15:34.060" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3531" PostId="1033" Score="1" Text="Seconded, Christofian. Is this information only oral, or is there an peer-reviewed resource that examines it as well?" CreationDate="2015-07-22T16:14:37.150" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3533" PostId="1033" Score="1" Text="I can't speak for Dee, but I know for my own tribe such things are semi-oral. For example, when my niece and brother-in-law went through their naming ceremony, there were some sheets we were given with clan and seating information. However, they looked hand-done (and photocopied half to death), and I couldn't find anything matching them online anywhere. Elders are (by definition) dying out too, so there's a tremendous need for scholarship on native tribes." CreationDate="2015-07-22T18:24:20.737" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="3535" PostId="1038" Score="0" Text="Sorry if the formatting is aweful; I'll edit it tomorrow." CreationDate="2015-07-23T03:30:29.847" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3536" PostId="1040" Score="0" Text="This answer is something along the lines of what I'm looking for. Do you know when the implied divinity got added?" CreationDate="2015-07-23T21:22:02.493" UserDisplayName="anon" />
  <row Id="3537" PostId="1040" Score="0" Text="@ton.yeung No, I wouldn't be comfortable with even guessing it's meaning involving holiness was a late addition.  Given that the character can refer directly to that quality, I'd be more inclined to guess the opposite might be true, but that's speculation." CreationDate="2015-07-23T21:33:08.777" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3538" PostId="1040" Score="0" Text="I actually found the answer to my question after digging a bit more and playing around with some chinese translators, not sure if i should make it an answer, though. The translations conflated two different concepts and called them sages, when they're actually immortals." CreationDate="2015-07-23T21:34:39.720" UserDisplayName="anon" />
  <row Id="3540" PostId="1042" Score="1" Text="Welcome to our community! Could you expand upon your answer and explain what &quot;ritual defloration&quot; means? It would make you answer more detailed, and help people who aren't experts understand your answer." CreationDate="2015-07-23T22:39:14.310" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3541" PostId="1044" Score="2" Text="I'm more interested in the myth's earliest use / origin than a description of it." CreationDate="2015-07-24T19:50:14.157" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="3542" PostId="1044" Score="2" Text="_Bram Stoker did a pretty lame job..._. It's painfully obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about." CreationDate="2015-07-24T20:03:05.997" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="3543" PostId="1044" Score="0" Text="We require sources on answers on Mythology, and this answer doesn't provide any to support its claims. I'm also doubtful of quite a lot written here, and it's highly unstructured." CreationDate="2015-07-24T20:47:43.333" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3544" PostId="1044" Score="0" Text="I actually regret answering your question.&#xA;@HDE-226868 a quick google search can provide the same answer. I like providing links if it's something interesting. This question falls more into &quot;What was the weather yesterday&quot; category. Why it has a bounty is beyond me." CreationDate="2015-07-24T21:29:21.373" UserId="568" />
  <row Id="3545" PostId="1044" Score="3" Text="Wikipedia is frowned upon, some of the cited articles are written in Cyrillic, the Science Fiction and Fantasy answer has been ruled against (an answer here quoting it was deleted, though by its owner, and your sources are not actual myths, which is what we look for here. Furthermore, the sources themselves seem shoddy. This answer constitutes poor research. The latter points are nowhere near on-topic, and **it does not answer the question.** Furthermore, stay civil." CreationDate="2015-07-24T21:34:58.307" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3546" PostId="1044" Score="0" Text="Cyrilic = Google translate. &#xA;One of the sources is actually a published book referenced in wikipedia.&#xA;Referencing a non-popular fact about a popular fictional character usually brings a lot of spam. Also, I see nothing wrong with citing Balkan sources for Balkan mythological being. Most of us never had to read about vampires. We heard about them from children stories when we were young. U have no idea how hard is to find an English copy of the story you heard as a child. Second comment soon" CreationDate="2015-07-24T21:45:05.313" UserId="568" />
  <row Id="3547" PostId="1044" Score="5" Text="It is highly difficult to go sifting through pages and pages of Cyrillic writing and plug it all into Google Translate. It would be much better if you added relevant, translated portions. Also, you need to realize what is important and what is not. Stoker is not important because his writings are not mythological. You also need to provide inline citations. You claim that we are too lazy; it is the reverse. Your answer is difficult to read." CreationDate="2015-07-24T22:14:45.777" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3548" PostId="1044" Score="0" Text="Guide to searching info in language you don't know: Find keywords, delete last 1-2 chars and search for a concentration. In your case огледало = mirror and вампир = vampire. Also Half of the links are actually in English. While they don't seem credible, they actually are quite spot on since they are almost letter to letter translation of the common belief. Bonus: Half the Cyrilic articles simple explain that when Stoker wrote his books, Europeans were actually thirsty for blood so they accepted everything as given and started fantasizing about it and spawning more and more ridiculous stories" CreationDate="2015-07-24T22:40:17.810" UserId="568" />
  <row Id="3549" PostId="1044" Score="0" Text="@HDE226868 ok, last edit and I give up if it doesn't help. There is actual quote stating that it was exactly Stoker who said that vampires had no reflection." CreationDate="2015-07-24T23:17:48.000" UserId="568" />
  <row Id="3573" PostId="1044" Score="0" Text="Why did u go into such detail about vampires in general? Chinese vampires, Bulgarian vampires... I was really just curious about one specific thing. You eventually got around to it at the end of your answer though, I'd stopped re-reading your edits by the time you added that part in. Would of given u the green tick had I seen it." CreationDate="2015-08-05T08:07:21.857" UserId="36" />
  <row Id="3574" PostId="1044" Score="0" Text="@Daft sometimes lack of sleep makes people edgy. Also, based on my personal experience, the one who &quot;officially&quot; did something, usually came up with the idea by &quot;borrowing&quot; it from someone else. Balkan Vampires were the inspiration for Dracula and spawned the entire popular culture, so they were worth mentioning. Chinese ones are the only related to myths. besides them you have tons of other similar beings through out the countries around the world." CreationDate="2015-08-05T23:28:00.017" UserId="568" />
  <row Id="6047" PostId="1044" Score="0" Text="This is a good answer, so can you consider posting an answer to the older question on Sci Fi SE http://scifi.stackexchange.com/q/38466/4918 ? It has a 50 XP bounty currently." CreationDate="2016-07-19T09:39:04.017" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="3551" PostId="1045" Score="2" Text="This exact quote was used in [Hristo's answer](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/1023/origin-of-the-vampires-have-no-reflection-myth/1044#1044)." CreationDate="2015-07-25T14:54:02.103" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3562" PostId="1045" Score="0" Text="[J Gordon Melton's &quot;The Vampire Book: The Encyclopedia of the Undead&quot;](https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Vampire_Book.html?id=rZ9clsv_L0EC) says likewise (I wasn't *quite* convinced by that source, personally)." CreationDate="2015-07-28T19:14:23.847" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3553" PostId="1048" Score="2" Text="There are thousands of ethnic groups in the world and you listed three; I am not convinced there really is &quot;so many&quot; giant creation myths. BTW, the Chinese `Panku` creation myth did not appear until ~2nd-3rd century AD, probably as an evolution of an earlier myth of `Panhu`, a worm-turned-dog-turned-dogman." CreationDate="2015-07-28T04:54:02.403" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3575" PostId="1048" Score="0" Text="Consider also [Cylopean masonry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclopean_masonry). If current civilizations could not have constructed [these ruins], and all past people were inferior to us, then the ruins must have been constructed by alien visitors/giants, surely?" CreationDate="2015-08-08T11:54:33.130" UserId="131" />
  <row Id="3556" PostId="1049" Score="0" Text="By fur, do you refer to the hair on their heads? Canonically, Chinese dragons (from which Vietnamese/Japanese ones derive) have fish scales on their body, and your examples match this." CreationDate="2015-07-28T05:03:00.753" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3557" PostId="1049" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore Heads and (in some cases) backs" CreationDate="2015-07-28T05:03:44.427" UserId="579" />
  <row Id="3559" PostId="1049" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore - See my two most recent additions.  In any case, they are all 100% furrier than western dragons, which have no fur at all." CreationDate="2015-07-28T05:09:38.883" UserId="579" />
  <row Id="3576" PostId="1049" Score="0" Text="http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/34088/differences-between-dragon-drake-wyrm-and-wyvern" CreationDate="2015-08-10T12:52:11.130" UserId="621" />
  <row Id="6140" PostId="1049" Score="0" Text="Not fur! Think pocupine quills. You only showed scales and spikes." CreationDate="2016-08-23T00:37:02.793" UserDisplayName="user2887" />
  <row Id="8640" PostId="1049" Score="0" Text="@WadCheber Is your question still not resolved by the answer?" CreationDate="2017-11-21T13:04:07.163" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8687" PostId="1049" Score="0" Text="It's possible that the Chinese based theirs off a creature that did have a mane-like feature. Despite their common depiction, many dinosaurs had feathers." CreationDate="2017-12-12T19:23:06.257" UserId="4527" />
  <row Id="11921" PostId="1049" Score="0" Text="@Johnny humans have never seen dinosaurs alive." CreationDate="2019-09-20T08:30:39.897" UserId="6346" />
  <row Id="3564" PostId="1052" Score="2" Text="+1, and if I could give you a bounty I would.  Remind me later.  &quot;...A monstrous thing, hideous and shapeless, unheard of&quot; is one of my favorite lines ever." CreationDate="2015-07-28T20:05:24.743" UserId="579" />
  <row Id="3565" PostId="1052" Score="0" Text="Reading the Dunn translation, Cuchulainn sounds a bit like the creature from *John Carpenter's The Thing*." CreationDate="2015-07-28T20:06:49.303" UserId="579" />
  <row Id="6167" PostId="1052" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon Great way to sneak in those awesome comic depictions! (Bisley and Fabry were my original gateway to the Ulster Cycle.) For those who haven't seen it, the film [The General](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_General_%281998_film%29) (1998) is worth a look. There are a bunch of Cuchullain references and Brenden Gleeson does this thing where he covers one eye, which you can see in the movie poster on the link. An interesting alternate take." CreationDate="2016-08-24T23:24:56.533" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="3569" PostId="1053" Score="3" Text="The Titans were neither giants nor did they create the worlds. This really seems to be a different phenomenon from what you're describing." CreationDate="2015-08-02T18:59:05.823" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3840" PostId="1055" Score="1" Text="Yes the edition does matter. I vaguely recall that those numbers are just a conventional way to say a long time, but I gave my source back to the library." CreationDate="2015-10-17T19:19:16.463" UserId="842" />
  <row Id="3585" PostId="1057" Score="0" Text="I tried to write an answer but somehow SE wouldn't let me post it :c The gist of it is that Water Margin's Wu Song was based on a prior character called Wu Song who was likely a historical figure, who is thought to have assassinated a corrupted official nicknamed &quot;tiger&quot; for his exploitation of peasants." CreationDate="2015-08-12T09:41:47.020" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3589" PostId="1057" Score="0" Text="Whoa. So he's a mythological assassin?" CreationDate="2015-08-12T21:45:57.273" UserId="98" />
  <row Id="3590" PostId="1057" Score="0" Text="@PythonMaster Assuming the history is correct, he was a local hero who got rid of a corrupt administrator, and was immortalised in folklore because of it. I have no access to the primary sources so I can only take people's words for it that they did find this guy's name in the county's chronicles." CreationDate="2015-08-13T04:51:46.373" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3594" PostId="1057" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore [The block has been reversed for Mythology SE](http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/263724/unable-to-post-chinese-character-due-to-malfunctioning-validation-filter/263725#263725) after requesting for the Chinese character unblock." CreationDate="2015-08-16T03:26:25.297" UserId="501" />
  <row Id="6977" PostId="1057" Score="0" Text="It may be of interest that the [&quot;Tiger Fork&quot; trident is a traditional Chinese weapon, still utilized in training by Chinese martial artists](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42xlKeRcobE).  Forms for this weapon can include a move where the wielder falls on their back with the tines upraised.  The given explanation for this move is to impale the tiger when it pounces on the hunter." CreationDate="2017-01-19T20:56:23.760" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="3586" PostId="1058" Score="0" Text="I think the more standard view is that Greek gods were adopted by Etruscans who then passed them onto the Romans, rather than your explanation here that Greece adopted Etruscan gods (how??). Is there any source you can cite to back up this view?" CreationDate="2015-08-12T21:02:54.353" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3587" PostId="1058" Score="1" Text="I agree that the more standard view is that the Etruscan deities were copied from the Greek pantheon. This view is, however, based on the old view that Etruscan culture and mythology was non-existent before the 8th century BCE. Current views have Etruscan culture and mythology flourishing several centuries earlier. As Etruscan depictions as well as names of Gods are closer to the (admittedly reconstructed) Indo-European roots, there is sense in taking the Etruscan deities to be the older ones, generally speaking." CreationDate="2015-08-12T21:45:01.200" UserId="638" />
  <row Id="3588" PostId="1058" Score="1" Text="Deities like Pacha or Menvra and possibly Artimi are likelier to have been Greek before they had Etruscan equivalents. Of course syncretism often goes both ways. See for example L.B. van der Meer (1987), linked in my post above already, and Nancy Thomson de Grummond &amp; Erika Simon (2006)." CreationDate="2015-08-12T21:45:10.450" UserId="638" />
  <row Id="12071" PostId="1059" Score="0" Text="Real vampires do exist - they are life sucking people that are narcissistic, greedy, selfish and vain.  They take from you as much as they can.  They &quot;seem&quot; to be friends and offer you pleasure and beauty but they take your life.  They cannot see their reflections because they portray someone other than their true self." CreationDate="2019-11-30T17:08:56.490" UserId="6529" />
  <row Id="11216" PostId="1064" Score="0" Text="Might it be that an intended message was that you haven't to be a lover of Ishtar to be in a trouble?" CreationDate="2019-01-22T01:19:53.267" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="8451" PostId="1065" Score="0" Text="I would say no (to the headline question). As I explained in the middle portion of my answer to another question [here](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/2835/3989), the mechanism for rewarding Achilles' kind of merit with eternal fame seems (to him at least) to have been broken. In slaying Hector (and many others) in some of the later books he indeed does what his goddess mother has assured him will bring him eternal fame, but for another reason: his rage at the death of Patroclus." CreationDate="2017-10-10T13:55:20.127" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="11485" PostId="1065" Score="0" Text="@BrianDonovan  can you elaborate as to why the mechanism for rewarding Achilles with eternal fame has been broken?" CreationDate="2019-04-15T21:38:30.247" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="3601" PostId="1066" Score="1" Text="I feel awkward writing this comment after talking about increasing activity in the chat, but this question needs a lot of work. (1) Is it really necessary to use the wording &quot;preponderance of watery tarts&quot;? It sounds weird, and I (personally) don't think it's funny. (2) I'm not sure how you would answer this question: are you asking to count the number of female characters in mythology and tell you what percentage are &quot;watery tarts&quot;? Because that's completely unrealistic. I'm sorry, but unless this question is significantly edited, I feel like it should be closed." CreationDate="2015-08-19T22:41:04.953" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3603" PostId="1066" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet - I agree on both your points... I'm a bit too whimsical for my own good... ... I suppose I could change this to: &quot;Are there any watery tarts in desert culture mythologies&quot;, ... I can't think of a synonym for &quot;watery tart&quot;... Can you think of one?" CreationDate="2015-08-19T23:04:11.290" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="3604" PostId="1066" Score="1" Text="what exactly are you trying to learn by asking this question?" CreationDate="2015-08-19T23:06:26.203" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3605" PostId="1066" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet - Well, I was wondering if there was a preponderance of watery tarts, and if there was a preponderance, I'd then try to find a reason behind it or perhaps find that it's just coincidence... ... But, I don't think the first question fits .SE that well..." CreationDate="2015-08-20T00:18:32.277" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="3989" PostId="1066" Score="0" Text="I agree with @Hamlet - I'm voting to close this question, not because of the phrasing, but because it's not clear/subjective. Yes, water nymphs are common in mythology - that much is clear from the examples in your question. But we can't decide whether or not this is an abundance or an unusually large amount. Similarly, there is a lot of magic in mythology, and a lot of knights in Arthurian legend. They are a common staple of the genre. I'm not really sure what information you're hoping for." CreationDate="2015-12-04T10:35:11.663" UserId="26" />
  <row Id="3990" PostId="1066" Score="0" Text="@Luna - I guess a reason for the 'preponderance', like how Flood Myths are Indo-European 'cause there was a flood way back when... ... Altering Question to match that idea..." CreationDate="2015-12-04T12:31:21.820" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="4006" PostId="1066" Score="2" Text="@Malandy, that's more of a hypothesis that has not—and cannot—be verified. Think about it. We see a lot of floods in mythology (which, btw, is not limited to IE religion), we then find evidence of Black Sea flooding 10,000 years ago. Therefore we assume it left a mark. But the two are't necessarily related." CreationDate="2015-12-08T13:24:04.960" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4007" PostId="1066" Score="2" Text="It's a rather large topic in historical and archaeological conversations known as a the [positivist fallacy](http://www.livius.org/articles/theory/positivist-fallacy/). In other words, we cannot assume that any particular historical flood gave birth to mythological floods, something more especially realized when the fact that worldwide mythologies exist for floods is taken into account." CreationDate="2015-12-08T13:30:58.303" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4008" PostId="1066" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer - Ah... Makes sense. It's like confirmation bias... Sorta... Not really? ... But, seductive water nymphs are a bit more specific than flood myths? ... So if this question was about creation myths that have [Adam and Eve Plots](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdamAndEvePlot), and an answer I'd accept would be something like &quot;Those plots exist because creation myths need a way to explain humanity and male-female binaries&quot;." CreationDate="2015-12-08T13:37:40.777" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="4009" PostId="1066" Score="1" Text="@Malandy I think mostly it's just that for the ancient Greeks, landscapes in general were very numinous - you had nymphs of all types of trees, hill nymphs, river nymphs, nymphs of the sea, you had the Maenads and Bacchae (nymphs associated with Dionysus), underworld nymphs, mountain nymphs. They were everywhere. The same is true for most mythologies - the wilderness and landscape share a piece of the divine." CreationDate="2015-12-08T13:40:45.213" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4011" PostId="1066" Score="1" Text="@Malandy if I can add to C.M.Weimer's comment: The people who created these myths (not just in Greece) lived and interacted with nature on a scale that does not exist in modern society, so it's only natural that natural features (e.g. lakes) played a role in their stories. It's also relatively common for people who interact with nature to anthropomorphize it, i.e. to think to rivers or lakes or trees as people. There are also examples of similar principles in modern times, i.e. sailors referring to their ships as she, although it's less common because modern society is very individualistic." CreationDate="2015-12-08T21:09:05.160" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4013" PostId="1066" Score="1" Text="That said, I think some of the problems here lie in the way you asked this question. It's complicated enough to explain why the greeks believed in &quot;seductive water nymphs&quot;, and adding in the complexity of whether other cultures also &quot;believed in&quot; &quot;seductive water nymphs&quot; just makes this question much harder to answer, and makes it harder to understand what you are trying to learn more about. Had you asked the question &quot;why do greeks have seductive water nymphs in their mythology&quot;, you would have gotten an answer much quicker." CreationDate="2015-12-08T21:14:10.567" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4016" PostId="1066" Score="0" Text="Well, now I basically know that answer to that, so it doesn't seem that interesting now... But I guess I'll change it after I get an answer to this: &quot;What if I made my focus on Native American Water Nymphs? What do you think would happen then?&quot;" CreationDate="2015-12-09T00:09:53.843" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="4019" PostId="1066" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet - ... Oh! Forgot to Signal... Hmm... Well, if there's an ancient mythology tendency for [All Women are Lustful](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllWomenAreLustful), and to make Anthropomorphic Nature Things as Women, then we'd get Lusty Nature Women... But I don't have evidence of the second premise..." CreationDate="2015-12-09T17:02:10.197" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="3613" PostId="1070" Score="0" Text="It's another welsh triad: i.e. &quot;You are the **third** Humbled Chieftain&quot;. Does that qualify as a connection between them?" CreationDate="2015-08-21T01:18:07.247" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3619" PostId="1071" Score="0" Text="Peter's answer suggested to me that the character, Achilles, may have gone through more than one thought or feeling at different times. I'm not sure this is the way that someone trying to teach a lesson about dealing with life via a story, would write, or a form that a story that was retold through generations would take. Maybe it is autobiographical in a sense, or cathartic. I like the idea though of not thinking in an &quot;all or nothing&quot; way." CreationDate="2015-08-21T08:53:01.370" UserDisplayName="user667" />
  <row Id="3620" PostId="1071" Score="0" Text="Motivations can be complex.  Motivations can be multiple.  At any one moment, a single motivation may take precedence over others, but that does not means they are erased altogether.  Homer's way of emphasizing Achilles' complexity is to show him straddling the worlds of mortality and immortality.  Homer's audience would readily grasp this emphasis." CreationDate="2015-08-21T19:13:47.043" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="3623" PostId="1071" Score="0" Text="Thanks for commenting everyone. Peter - interesting response. I especially like the idea of Homer's emphasizing his complexity as you said. It does make me wonder whether some of this complexity has been lost by many in modern times. The more I read about Achilles and discuss his life with others, the more these ambiguities and, at times, contradictions seem vital to his story." CreationDate="2015-08-24T03:08:09.710" UserId="663" />
  <row Id="3632" PostId="1081" Score="1" Text="This is a good question, but the last paragraph seems to lead it into the territory of being Too Broad." CreationDate="2015-08-28T21:50:48.350" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3642" PostId="1085" Score="0" Text="Hi, Shauna, welcome to Mythology! We generally require answers [to cite reputable sources](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/105/what-are-good-sources-when-answering-questions?lq=1) (e.g. no Wikipedia) to back up points. For example, [your newer answer to a different question](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/1086/183) does that well. This is an interesting assessment, but it could use good references. Thanks!" CreationDate="2015-08-31T23:55:49.563" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3647" PostId="1085" Score="0" Text="@HDE226868 Unfortunately, sections of it are interpretation, but I've added citations for things stated as factual and tried to more clearly delineate the interpretation." CreationDate="2015-09-01T12:55:58.883" UserId="705" />
  <row Id="3665" PostId="1085" Score="0" Text="+1, this is a pretty good answer insofar as the question is answerable. I like the observations in the 4th paragraph." CreationDate="2015-09-07T06:43:45.677" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3648" PostId="1086" Score="0" Text="Thanks, Shauna, for your reply. As I explained in response to Deion's comment on June 26, my interest is whether there were any myths that would have been relied upon to conceive of a celestial Jesus who was killed and resurrected in the heavens. This would have occurred in the middle third of the 1st century CE, so I was looking for myths that were contemporary with or had preceded that time window. As such, I was actually asking for myths outside Christianity, but they would have to have been ones current in the eastern Mediterranean then. But I did like your answer; gave it an up." CreationDate="2015-09-02T04:21:04.697" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="3651" PostId="1086" Score="0" Text="Keep in mind that while many of the myths of that era were not written down until later centuries, travelers even of the first couple of centuries would likely have heard them shared orally (this also goes for Judaism and early Christianity). So, just because the *texts* weren't around until later centuries, it doesn't mean the *stories* weren't. Unfortunately, though, all we have is what's been preserved in a physical format." CreationDate="2015-09-02T12:55:19.827" UserId="705" />
  <row Id="3655" PostId="1086" Score="1" Text="Thanks, Shauna, I understand that. But I am looking for evidence. Are you saying that the myths you mention about Baldr and Odin existed and were known in the Eastern Mediterranean in the middle of the 1st century CE? If you think so, why and what is the evidence? That would answer my question." CreationDate="2015-09-03T04:23:20.677" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="3657" PostId="1086" Score="0" Text="For evidence of such cultural mixing, you need only look at Rome. During that time, what is now Israel was part of the Roman Empire (attestation of this can be found in the New Testament (the famous &quot;give to Cesaer that which is his&quot;) as well as any text on Rome. Likewise, the Huns traveled through and into Europe, and Rome was no stranger to the northern tribes (many of whom were captured for slaves). When I have some time, I'll add more detail on this to my answer." CreationDate="2015-09-03T15:08:22.117" UserId="705" />
  <row Id="3660" PostId="1086" Score="2" Text="The picture you describe is rather anachronistic, though. There is no evidence that the Huns knew of Baldr's death, nor are the Huns traveling through the the eastern Roman empire, nor are the slaves from northern Germany exported to Israel, and it doesn't make sense that they would have had any influence on Judaism at that time. There's no plausible trajectory here that isn't anachronistic." CreationDate="2015-09-03T19:38:12.983" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3661" PostId="1086" Score="0" Text="@Shauna yes, specific cultures in specific circumstances have come into contact with each other and shared ideas. However, can you show that Norse myths came into contact with eastern Mediterranean myths?" CreationDate="2015-09-03T20:02:39.857" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3663" PostId="1086" Score="0" Text="The Jews weren't just in the East Mediterranean, though, and arguably never were *just* there, considering Judeo-Christian lore has them in Egypt long before. Even archaeologically speaking, they lived throughout the Roman territory since at least a century before Jesus' time. The northern slaves were also traded throughout Italy (as evidenced in part by the number of Gauls there). The Hunnic Empire was the entire east border of Roman territory, giving them contact with both the Romans and the early Germanics." CreationDate="2015-09-04T13:38:18.210" UserId="705" />
  <row Id="3677" PostId="1086" Score="0" Text="Thanks, Shauna, for amending your answer. Baal is not relevant to my question about celestial dying and rising deities since he came back to life in the underworld. Also, I still don't see where you have shown that these Eddic myths existed (even in oral form) in the mid-1st century CE. The Eddas date from perhaps the 13th century, and scholars date the relevant oral traditions no earlier than the early Viking age. I also agree with Hamlet and Weimer that Northern European myths haven't been shown to have been known to Jews in Palestine then, where the notion of Christ's resurrection arose." CreationDate="2015-09-10T18:23:41.127" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="3678" PostId="1086" Score="1" Text="I don't have the time or energy to try to prove beyond doubt whether or not the northern Europeans had contact in a time for which we have very little information about them in general. You asked for likely influences, and as their direct neighbors and I made a suggestion and explained how I came to the conclusion that I did, giving you a base from which to delve further. I happened to find an interesting and potentially relevant article, which I've added to my answer, but this is going to be my last update to it for the foreseeable future." CreationDate="2015-09-11T14:30:27.407" UserId="705" />
  <row Id="7970" PostId="1091" Score="1" Text="I strongly agree with this thesis, although, full disclosure, I was taught by that Dionysus in particular provides the template for this aspect of the Christ myth, with Persephone rounding out the equation in terms of the Eucharist. *(Certainly the blessing over the bread and wine is fairly central in Jewish rites, it takes on an entirely new dimension in Christianity.)*  I don't think it's an accident Paul traveled so extensively in Greece, and the connection with Zagreus/Dionysus probably had a lot to do with the ability to promote the good news of the new Religion in Europe." CreationDate="2017-08-01T19:46:42.320" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7971" PostId="1091" Score="1" Text="Per your blog, which I'm still working my way through, I'm a little skeptical of the idea that the Greek tradition does not cast the Dying/Resurrected gods as humans, where both Dionysus and Heracles were demi-gods, similar to Christ.  (I mention Heracles per the pyre: [What is the meaning of Heracles' self-immolation](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/2447/2892).) That said, I strongly agree with your distinction of Abrahamic faiths not being preoccupied with the generative cycle, as opposed to most pagan religions, in my experience." CreationDate="2017-08-01T19:55:03.713" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="3679" PostId="1094" Score="1" Text="yay sources! +1 and welcome to the site!" CreationDate="2015-09-12T22:41:01.423" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3683" PostId="1095" Score="0" Text="I've seen those links, but are those the only myths?  I was looking for other things that steal breath as well, not just the sleep paralysis related ones." CreationDate="2015-09-14T20:03:47.743" UserId="731" />
  <row Id="3685" PostId="1099" Score="1" Text="The story of adam and eve had something to do with it: before that story, most myths portrayed snakes as a good thing. Not going to write an answer because I have no time." CreationDate="2015-09-16T22:46:56.197" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3686" PostId="1099" Score="0" Text="Are there any specific myths before adam and eve that portray snakes positively?" CreationDate="2015-09-16T23:15:34.953" UserId="758" />
  <row Id="3687" PostId="1099" Score="2" Text="In Australia the Aboriginals believe that a Rainbow Serpent created the landscape, embodied the spirit of the fresh water and punished lawbreakers. &#xA;In Cambodian Mythology, they believe the Khmer People to have been born out of union of Indian and Nagas or Serpents." CreationDate="2015-09-17T04:15:40.290" UserId="709" />
  <row Id="3688" PostId="1099" Score="1" Text="For Hindus it represents Rebith due to the casting off of it's skin and being 'reborn'. &#xA;Search for Nāgas for more Hindu myths, they feature prominently in several myths. Koreans fear the snake and worship it as a god. In MesoAmerica we have Quetzalcoatl  who was a 'feathered serpent' patron of arts, crafts and merchants." CreationDate="2015-09-17T04:21:56.070" UserId="709" />
  <row Id="3693" PostId="1099" Score="5" Text="Saying that western culture dislike snakes and therefore it's confusing that *other people* don't share your views, kinda smacks of Eurocentrism. *Why should* other culture view snakes negatively?" CreationDate="2015-09-17T08:47:13.840" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3712" PostId="1099" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore I thought maybe for the same reason I do. I realized how narrow that was and wanted to know why other people hold it positively." CreationDate="2015-09-18T02:45:39.290" UserId="758" />
  <row Id="3742" PostId="1099" Score="0" Text="I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Egyptian mythology yet, where snake-gods are portrayed both positively (as a protector) and negatively (as the embodiment of chaos): Wadjet and Apep." CreationDate="2015-09-28T17:58:08.903" UserId="788" />
  <row Id="3692" PostId="1102" Score="1" Text="By reference, do you mean, that you are looking for a place or object or being that is made of stone, in Norse mythology?" CreationDate="2015-09-17T08:42:23.157" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3700" PostId="1102" Score="0" Text="Yes a place, object or being made of stone. Or might be a being working with stone or living in a stone house etc." CreationDate="2015-09-17T09:27:34.613" UserId="469" />
  <row Id="3707" PostId="1102" Score="2" Text="It feels *a bit* broad, but I guess if we rule out casual references to common stone objects this could be limited enough in scope. Otherwise - I'm pretty sure [Midgard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midgard) *contains* rocks in general." CreationDate="2015-09-17T09:55:51.000" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3708" PostId="1103" Score="1" Text="That is exactly what I was looking for, thanx @Semaphore!" CreationDate="2015-09-17T10:48:41.020" UserId="469" />
  <row Id="3711" PostId="1103" Score="4" Text="So Thor met The Thing and said &quot;Hrungnir! We meet again!&quot; and The Thing says &quot;Whattaya talkin' about, Mary?&quot;" CreationDate="2015-09-18T01:25:23.593" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="3718" PostId="1105" Score="0" Text="This is one of my worst answers on this site: unfortunately, I know nothing about the history of the bible, so I can't explain *why* the bible is such an outlier with regards to portraying serpents. However, I felt like this question deserved an answer (it's actually a relatively interesting question), and I thought that a mediocre answer would be better than none at all." CreationDate="2015-09-20T01:19:34.520" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3719" PostId="1105" Score="0" Text="Isn't the snake negative in the story of Gilgamesh? The snake itself is immortal but it gains that power by stealing it from Gilgamesh which is why he cries." CreationDate="2015-09-20T19:48:40.117" UserId="758" />
  <row Id="3720" PostId="1105" Score="0" Text="@SophArch in The Epic of Gilgamesh, the snake is portrayed as &quot;neutral.&quot; Yes, it did &quot;steal&quot; immortality from humans, but Gilgamesh's quest for immortality was doomed from the start: one of the themes of the epic is pride, and immortality is &quot;above&quot; humans and something that humans will never achieve. In the epic the snake was an accident, in the bible the snake was a tempter (and thus portrayed as evil)." CreationDate="2015-09-20T22:50:22.463" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3721" PostId="1106" Score="0" Text="`&quot;Positive symbolism of a snake is probably because snake poison is known for its medical effect&quot;` -- do you have a source for this?" CreationDate="2015-09-20T22:51:20.687" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3724" PostId="1106" Score="0" Text="Only information from few russian history books, wouldn't help much" CreationDate="2015-09-21T07:47:07.540" UserId="769" />
  <row Id="3727" PostId="1106" Score="1" Text="please cite those books anyway, [as it's important that we know the source of your information](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/a/265/62)." CreationDate="2015-09-21T19:51:58.630" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3745" PostId="1106" Score="2" Text="The idea that there is a meaningful difference between snakes and serpents seems pretty dubious to me.  The two words are synonymous.  Serpent may favored in translations sometimes for the *connotative* difference, but the idea that this somehow makes serpents *not snakes* strikes me as very questionable." CreationDate="2015-09-29T15:40:05.330" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3749" PostId="1106" Score="0" Text="As far as I know snake venom is only useful in creating an antidote for that type of snake bite. Are there other uses? Because otherwise it isn't a positive creature if it can be used to cure the ills it caused." CreationDate="2015-09-30T01:31:56.443" UserId="758" />
  <row Id="3728" PostId="1109" Score="1" Text="`&quot;By last research, some historians suspect that origin of Indo-European folks come from Urals(Russia), southern area&quot;` Do you have a source for this? On this site, we highly encourage that answers be supported by [reputable sources](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/a/106/62). I would also like a source for `&quot;In fact, all the mythologies of all the cultures can be considered as relatively created.&quot;`" CreationDate="2015-09-21T19:52:44.683" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3730" PostId="1109" Score="1" Text="+1 for answering the question with the example of Perun and Thor. However, this answer can be improved by elaborating on the similarities of the two deities, and by naming the &quot;some historians&quot; you are citing. In fact it is probably **not** helpful to drag the highly hypothetical (not to mention disputed) Indo-European *Urheimat* location into this answer. And I think by &quot;Urals&quot;, you mean the Pontic Steppes. That said, @Hamlet the mere existence of this hypothesis is not something you really need &quot;reputable sources&quot; for." CreationDate="2015-09-22T04:33:59.217" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3731" PostId="1109" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore sorry, by &quot;I would also like a source for `In fact, all the mythologies of all the cultures can be considered as relatively created.`&quot;, I meant &quot;Although you have evidence that some myths have common origins, what is your evidence that all myths have common origins?&quot; Though I suppose you are right, you don't need a source for a hypothesis that isn't intrinsic to the answer." CreationDate="2015-09-22T05:33:30.910" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3732" PostId="1109" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet I was referring only to the first half of your comment, which requested sources on the Indo European homeland hypothesis. I would agree that the claim that all mythologies are &quot;relatively created&quot; needs citation support - this answer would probably be better off not making such claims at all." CreationDate="2015-09-22T05:50:06.120" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3729" PostId="1110" Score="0" Text="If I'm not mistaken, all of these are Semitic creatures and demons, not specifically Sumerian ones. I washoping for strictly Sumerians creatures, though I do understand that in later times there was considerable overlap." CreationDate="2015-09-22T04:19:37.613" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3733" PostId="1110" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer - Fair enough, I was of the belief that the Enuma Elish was believed to be based on Sumerian traditions, but it appears that recent consensus is against it, and I'm really not sure Lamashtu and Pazuzu have a Sumerian parallel.  I suppose that really only leaves Lilitu and Lamassu, which I believe are of reasonably clear sumerian origin." CreationDate="2015-09-22T15:26:58.137" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3736" PostId="1115" Score="0" Text="Could I also get some details about the properties of the items? I'm assuming the Treads are the boots I found reference to and that the banded rod is probably the famous Monkey King rod that can be any length. Otherwise great answer and thanks!" CreationDate="2015-09-24T06:00:30.343" UserId="709" />
  <row Id="3737" PostId="1115" Score="0" Text="Yes, that's the magic rod in question. The rest are literally just random scraps of luxury clothing the dragon kings scraped together for the Monkey King, though. The is no word on them possessing any special qualities - the only other time they were ever mentioned was when Sun Wukong's attire was being described." CreationDate="2015-09-24T06:14:19.163" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3738" PostId="1115" Score="1" Text="That's unfortunate, but alas good answer!" CreationDate="2015-09-24T06:28:54.947" UserId="709" />
  <row Id="3751" PostId="1118" Score="0" Text="This isn't an issue anymore because your question seems to have been answers, but in the future you should name the book/article where you `&quot;remember reading that tornadoes disappeared...&quot;` It's much easier for us to answer your questions if we have the name of a book: that way we have a starting place for our research." CreationDate="2015-10-01T17:13:03.497" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3758" PostId="1124" Score="1" Text="A few questions: (1) how do you know that this picture `&quot;represents the medicine&quot;`? Is it because the drawing has a rooster? (2) Where did you get this picture? The internet?" CreationDate="2015-10-02T20:49:35.647" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3759" PostId="1124" Score="0" Text="Hi Hamlet, thank you. As I wrote, I'm asking the question a friend of mine asked me yesterday; I ended up here by mere chance, searching the web. The fresco is inside the university of Pavia, Italy, and should represent one of the subjects being taught there in the past, the art of medicine. Anyhow tomorrow I'll be more specific." CreationDate="2015-10-02T21:11:54.953" UserId="797" />
  <row Id="3760" PostId="1124" Score="0" Text="it would be wonderful if you could edit the question to add that additional information. That said, this sounds like it will be a great question, so +1 from me!" CreationDate="2015-10-02T21:14:22.677" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3832" PostId="1124" Score="1" Text="Is it possible that the bird is a goose rather than a swan? The swan is a theriomorph of Aphrodite, whose connection with medicine is fairly tangential. The goose, however, is a theriomorph of Artemis (sister of Apollo, a medicine god). She's associated with midwifery and sudden death among prepubescent girls." CreationDate="2015-10-08T19:46:36.500" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="3763" PostId="1125" Score="5" Text="Essentially, the same reason why any other misconception is popular - it rarely gets corrected enough, and the consequences of the misconception are minuscule. It just gets repeated so much, in art, in movies, in literature, that it remains popular." CreationDate="2015-10-03T21:21:52.597" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3764" PostId="1125" Score="0" Text="See [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_box#Etymology_of_the_.22box.22)." CreationDate="2015-10-04T15:33:09.590" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3765" PostId="1125" Score="0" Text="Thanks @C.M.Weimer - Can you post it as an answer so I can close this?" CreationDate="2015-10-04T21:27:02.303" UserId="800" />
  <row Id="3769" PostId="1125" Score="1" Text="I thought the &quot;jar&quot; referred to her womb?" CreationDate="2015-10-06T21:13:17.190" UserId="811" />
  <row Id="3797" PostId="1125" Score="0" Text="@user3791372 do you remember who said that (this makes sense, because the myth discusses gender [by modern standards, incorrectly] -- Pandora was a woman who tempted mortals and released evil etc.)" CreationDate="2015-10-08T17:17:39.273" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3798" PostId="1125" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet I think I saw it on tv a few weeks ago. The opening, representing the availability of sex, and what came out of it representing child birth etc. I don't know if this was a contentious view." CreationDate="2015-10-08T17:33:27.820" UserId="811" />
  <row Id="3804" PostId="1125" Score="0" Text="@user3791372 newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Pandora's_Box I don't think it should be contentious: it seems pretty logical to me. I first read the story when I was a child, so it makes sense that I didn't notice that aspect of the story. But it's completely logical, and I've read plenty of stories as an adult where similar symbolism is used. However, I'm skeptical that the greeks intended the jar to represent the &quot;availability&quot; of sex -- that sounds like a modern interpretation." CreationDate="2015-10-09T01:46:21.273" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3805" PostId="1125" Score="0" Text="The Ancient Greeks used had sex as much as we do - it isn't a new invention! Shakespeare is plentiful with the coarse sexual innuendo's and isn't something a modern audience is reading into it! Who knows, but the analogy fits" CreationDate="2015-10-09T03:06:58.293" UserId="811" />
  <row Id="3815" PostId="1125" Score="0" Text="@user3791372 no, it's just that the opening of pandora's box is portrayed as a bad thing (e.g. all the deceases escaped from the jar), and I'm not sure if the Greeks thought that sex/childbirth was bad. I agree with you that the jar represents the female womb (see the url in my previous comment). If you would like to discuss this further, you should [ask a question](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/ask) about the symbolism/meaning of pandora's jar." CreationDate="2015-10-11T00:17:47.027" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3766" PostId="1127" Score="2" Text="The Caesar thing is pure fiction. There is nothing at all like that. It's all myth and only myth, one of the many rite of passages young heroes have to take on." CreationDate="2015-10-06T01:09:31.953" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3767" PostId="1127" Score="1" Text="Are you asking about the story, as a collection of characters around the event of the sword and the stone? Or are you asking specifically about the symbolism of 'the sword in the stone,' regardless of 'which characters in what setting' have changed?" CreationDate="2015-10-06T13:39:01.193" UserId="810" />
  <row Id="3768" PostId="1127" Score="0" Text="I am trying to figure out the true original characters around the story" CreationDate="2015-10-06T13:51:11.757" UserId="799" />
  <row Id="3770" PostId="1127" Score="1" Text="`&quot;It is also said to be just a story, but I think otherwise&quot;` how do you know this? `&quot;There is a theory that the book written by T.H. White was written based off the myth.&quot;` Yes, the novel The Sword in the Stone is based on [Aurthurian legend](http://d.lib.rochester.edu/camelot-project) -- I'm not sure why you would call that a &quot;theory&quot;. &quot;`Others say that It was possessed by King Arthur, A British ruler who came of possession of it as a young boy`&quot; Yes, that is the myth (not history) that the story was based on." CreationDate="2015-10-06T23:50:18.990" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3771" PostId="1127" Score="0" Text="It would be really helpful if you could tell me who says `&quot;that it was  based in Rome and Merlin first possessed the sword given and made for Caesar Augustus.`&quot; Whoever told you the information this question is based upon (e.g. that King Arthur was a real person) has been (to put it lightly) making things up." CreationDate="2015-10-06T23:53:08.047" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3772" PostId="1127" Score="0" Text="Here is a [link] (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hDSr5PvHTiJEgndJXWgExh4kFmqGrjTndD-7jkpKJcI/edit#heading=h.5u3nppp0mjh8)" CreationDate="2015-10-07T00:08:44.303" UserId="799" />
  <row Id="3773" PostId="1127" Score="0" Text="@anonymous I can't read the document, but a google doc usually isn't a &quot;reputable source&quot;. Does the google doc reference any books/websites about King Arthur? (BTW if you want to learn more about king Arthur, this is a good website to start: http://d.lib.rochester.edu/camelot-project)" CreationDate="2015-10-07T01:08:04.167" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3774" PostId="1127" Score="0" Text="yes I copied and pasted a certain part of Wiki into a google doc. i will give you access and send you a new link Just a sec" CreationDate="2015-10-07T02:24:42.483" UserId="799" />
  <row Id="3775" PostId="1127" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet Here is the new link: [link](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hDSr5PvHTiJEgndJXWgExh4kFmqGrjTndD-7jkpKJcI/edit#heading=h.2sl9hhsexqmz)" CreationDate="2015-10-07T02:26:09.433" UserId="799" />
  <row Id="3776" PostId="1127" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet By the way: &quot;It is also said to be just a story, but I think otherwise&quot; how do you know this? &quot;There is a theory that the book written by T.H. White was written based off the myth.&quot; When I said that, I stated that as theory because there are other theories that there is no myth and that book was the beginning of the fantasy of the sword in the stone." CreationDate="2015-10-07T02:29:10.413" UserId="799" />
  <row Id="7914" PostId="1127" Score="0" Text="The motif also appears in Chapter 3 of the *Vǫlsunga saga* (and Wagner's *Die Walküre* 1.3) with a tree in place of the stone, from which the sword can only be drawn by its destined and intended wielder." CreationDate="2017-07-25T21:20:29.167" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="3777" PostId="1130" Score="0" Text="It wasn't the last legion is said specifically at the top The sword in the Stone not the last legion. By the way I looked the last legion up and that is also obviously a fantasy but maybe off of the Roman theory" CreationDate="2015-10-07T16:38:21.453" UserId="799" />
  <row Id="3778" PostId="1130" Score="0" Text="@anonymous No. if you google the text from that google doc, you will see that it is copied from the wikipedia page about the movie The Last Legion (http://bit.ly/1jOgMQQ). Besides, why on earth are you trusting something written in a google doc? Who gave you this document?" CreationDate="2015-10-07T17:27:23.370" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3779" PostId="1130" Score="1" Text="Not even kidding, I just saw Last Legion when I was on vacation this past summer. I laughed so hard when they made the connection at the end, and then shook my head in shame. It's so laughably dumb the way they put it together." CreationDate="2015-10-07T20:04:17.640" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3780" PostId="1130" Score="1" Text="I've never seen the movie or the wiki page on the last legion...it might be there as well but this was on a different wiki page. By the way, that was MY document. I copied it into the document so I could show you guys specifically which part of wiki I was talking about" CreationDate="2015-10-07T20:59:55.703" UserId="799" />
  <row Id="3781" PostId="1130" Score="0" Text="@anonymous The text in your document shows up *in no other wikipedia page* other than the page for the Last Legion, so unless you are using a different wikipedia than I am, then I don't know where else you could have gotten this from. Why don't you send me a link to the page you think you read? (I'm curious how this mix-up could have happened)." CreationDate="2015-10-07T22:22:47.630" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3782" PostId="1130" Score="0" Text="I don't have the page anymore...I lost it after I copied it. I tried getting access again but the only evidence I have left is the doc" CreationDate="2015-10-07T22:26:29.977" UserId="799" />
  <row Id="3784" PostId="1130" Score="1" Text="@anonymous what probably happened is: 1. someone vandalized the wikipedia page and put in false information. 2. you read the wikipedia page. 3. someone edited the wikipedia page to get rid of the false information. The moral of the story is don't trust wikipedia, and always explain things like this when you ask a question, and not in comments three days afterwards." CreationDate="2015-10-07T22:29:45.130" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3785" PostId="1130" Score="0" Text="@anonymous if you want to learn more about king arthur, use the links I've provided in my answer." CreationDate="2015-10-07T22:30:16.997" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3788" PostId="1132" Score="0" Text="To the person who voted to close this question: if you felt that this wouldn't be a useful question, why didn't you say so in the meta discussion?" CreationDate="2015-10-08T13:44:39.773" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3806" PostId="1132" Score="2" Text="I didn't downvote, but perhaps the question is thought of as too broad? I wish the downvoters would speak up!" CreationDate="2015-10-09T05:12:21.900" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3809" PostId="1132" Score="0" Text="I'll jump in and say that I do disagree with both the downvotes and the close votes. The question is good, and I think it's needed. Additionally, as has been noted, there is a meta question up, and it would be much more effective if people would bring up points there if they feel that this is off-topic. There haven't been any complaints on meta so far, only support, so I don't know why people are against this. Just my two cents." CreationDate="2015-10-09T21:11:45.447" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3847" PostId="1132" Score="1" Text="@HDE226868 The assumption here (not just from you) that anyone who sees this thread on the main site would've previously kept abreast of discussions on meta, is inherently naïve." CreationDate="2015-10-21T06:44:06.313" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3850" PostId="1132" Score="1" Text="@Semaphore fair. However, the main point here is that the downvoters and closevoters have not explained *why* they downvoted and close voted, either here or on the meta site. The meta post explains why I think this question is a necessary one, it was positively received, and as of yet no one has explained why they disagree with the rational for this question as specified in the meta post. I can't read people's minds, so I have no idea why people think this question is a bad one. Also, the meta post is linked in the body of the question, so people really should read it before they downvote." CreationDate="2015-10-21T15:44:17.133" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3851" PostId="1132" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore The link's in the question, and my comment also meant that I thought people should weigh in if they are against it, including those who didn't know anything about the question prior to seeing it." CreationDate="2015-10-21T22:49:54.383" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="3853" PostId="1132" Score="0" Text="While it would be nice to see what people think, remember no one is obligated to explain a downvote. @HDE226868 I was mostly reacting to this &quot;we've agreed on meta to do this why are people complaining now&quot; attitude that I felt was coming through. +3 on meta is not a groundswell of support, especially when most would not have seen it. But, I concede I'm quite likely being oversensitive." CreationDate="2015-10-22T04:48:51.267" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3854" PostId="1132" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore You're right that people aren't obligated to explain their downvotes. However, there's been a lot of disagreement lately about our content policies (regarding both question scope and expected level of answer details). It's really hard to figure out what people want to change when people aren't leaving comments and aren't speaking up on the meta. I guess that's why I'm frustrated about the lack of comments on this question." CreationDate="2015-10-22T05:13:51.373" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3790" PostId="1133" Score="1" Text="If you want to edit this post for any reason, please do so! It's a community wiki for a reason." CreationDate="2015-10-08T14:29:33.203" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4339" PostId="1135" Score="0" Text="Aw, you really didn't have to do all that." CreationDate="2016-02-01T03:38:25.587" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4358" PostId="1135" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer it's just fake internet points. I can edit/close questions, so all the reputation I have isn't really doing anything useful." CreationDate="2016-02-01T16:29:41.060" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3789" PostId="1136" Score="0" Text="hi, and thanks for the great answer. A follow-up question: was timber an important material to Mesopotamia (e.g.. was it rare, or was it central to their life in some way). Or is this section of the myth geopolitically (not technically a word) motivated?" CreationDate="2015-10-08T14:21:54.647" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3791" PostId="1136" Score="1" Text="Certainly! I should have made that clear. There aren't many forests in either Mesopotamia or Egypt, so timber from the region was extremely important. The acquisition of a source of cheap timber would most certainly be connected with issues of imperial expansion, and it's no surprise that both Pharaonic Egypt and Mesopotamia as early as Sargon of Akkad both desired control over the region. This article in the Oxford Enc. of Arch. in the Near East covers the topic a bit more: http://dendro.cornell.edu/articles/kuniholm1997b.pdf" CreationDate="2015-10-08T14:34:48.657" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3792" PostId="1136" Score="1" Text="I'll edit the answer soon and incorporate the follow up, since you did indeed ask that originally!" CreationDate="2015-10-08T14:36:13.247" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3793" PostId="1136" Score="0" Text="one final followup question: would this theme of timber be in any way related to Gilgamesh's identity as a builder (e.g. he built the walls of the city, etc)" CreationDate="2015-10-08T14:53:50.370" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3794" PostId="1136" Score="0" Text="It would take some more research for me to figure out if there are any connections, but I doubt they're directly related. Wall-building/city founding is a typical royal motif, and ancient walls weren't typically wooden (or rather, the strong ones were brick, stone, or mortar). Wooden walls would actually be more of a danger, since it would be more susceptible to fire." CreationDate="2015-10-08T15:40:18.433" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3795" PostId="1136" Score="1" Text="I'll work that into the answer, too, though you should check out Marc Van De Mieroop's The Ancient Mesopotamian City: https://books.google.com/books?id=_YKlbIp9pYMC&amp;pg=PA73#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false" CreationDate="2015-10-08T15:42:10.910" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3863" PostId="1136" Score="0" Text="value of timber sounds like a plausible reason but considering that the quote from &quot;Sargon in Foreign Lands&quot; connects the entering in the forest with doing obeisance, is it not likely that they viewed the (or &quot;a&quot;) cedar forest as somehow sacred? Sort of like many early European religions before Christianity that viewed (specific) forests as sacred." CreationDate="2015-10-24T16:11:12.300" UserId="860" />
  <row Id="16451" PostId="1136" Score="0" Text="Some new lines of tablet V were identified in 2011, containing a description of the cedar forest and its fauna, which includes monkeys. This supports the theory that the cedars in the epic represented those of the western Himalayas rather than Lebanon. See [this answer on literature](https://literature.stackexchange.com/a/21685/3003) and its references." CreationDate="2023-08-26T15:07:42.997" UserId="8513" />
  <row Id="16452" PostId="1136" Score="0" Text="@GarethRees Yes, that was quite a discovery. I'm still waiting on experts to weigh in on dating. It's certainly not a part of the Old Babylonian version, but when, where, and why it was added remains a bit of a mystery (as it is with all the later recensions). The inclusion of monkeys are interesting, if validated, as there are no monkeys in Lebanon, although that doesn't necessarily mean that the later scribe who authored this part was thinking specifically of the Himalayas." CreationDate="2023-08-26T15:54:05.487" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3801" PostId="1138" Score="0" Text="hi Peter. Quick question: what's the translation of pithos and pyxis (for people, like me, who don't know greek)." CreationDate="2015-10-08T20:40:01.027" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3802" PostId="1138" Score="0" Text="Pithos is a [jar](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Pithos_Louvre_CA4523.jpg) typically used to store things like wine or olive oil. Pyxis is more appropriately a [box](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Greek_Red-figure_Pyxis_DMA_1968-28.jpg)." CreationDate="2015-10-08T23:34:00.903" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3803" PostId="1138" Score="1" Text="However, I don't see the ideological differences in play. I cannot see how a pyxis is a less &quot;capacious of evil [sic]&quot; than a pithos. Care to explain further with reputable sources?" CreationDate="2015-10-08T23:36:00.357" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3918" PostId="1138" Score="1" Text="A pithos is a large vessel -- large enough in fact for a person to be buried in.  A pyxis is relatively small.  To Hesiod, a woman's potential evil is pithos-sized; to Erasmus, that potential is only the size of a pyxis.  Christian humanists, generally speaking, had a healthier view of women than archaic Greeks -- of course, by humanists and Greeks I refer to males." CreationDate="2015-11-06T02:06:18.210" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="3994" PostId="1138" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Peter, when you make a comment responding to someone else, be sure to include `@name` somewhere in the comment so that they will get a notification (e.g @C.M.Weimer)." CreationDate="2015-12-05T00:37:25.933" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6917" PostId="1138" Score="0" Text="@Peter Thanks for bringing up the Erasmus.  Don't rule out that the use of   [πυξίς](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=pucis&amp;la=greek#lexicon) carries a metaphor, not unrelated to the oil-jar *pithou* in that it can also stand for a &quot;cylinder in which a piston works&quot; (i.e. the female generative organ).  This meaning is one of the usages of &quot;box&quot; in English, and can certainly be taken as commentary on Hesiod's version of the Pandora myth in Theogony." CreationDate="2017-01-13T19:12:56.177" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="3810" PostId="1139" Score="0" Text="I think you're right." CreationDate="2015-10-10T04:30:06.420" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3811" PostId="1139" Score="0" Text="Thank you so much from me too. My friend, too, associated the swan with Apollo and so Apollo with his son, but missed Paion! (please, try to hypothesize about the meaning of those books too, if you have time)." CreationDate="2015-10-10T04:56:31.997" UserId="797" />
  <row Id="3813" PostId="1139" Score="0" Text="@antmjr I would say that the books represent wisdom. However, I can't think of a way that the books would mean anything more specific than that." CreationDate="2015-10-10T05:28:33.673" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3814" PostId="1139" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet Yes, but why an open book under the swan/Paion and the closed ones under the rooster/Asklepius? I have the feeling (just that!) that they must be meaningful." CreationDate="2015-10-10T05:52:22.523" UserId="797" />
  <row Id="3817" PostId="1140" Score="1" Text="&quot;Pandora is able to come down to earth because she tricks a man into marrying her&quot; — sorry, I'm not familiar with that bit of the myth. I thought Pandora (whose name means &quot;gift of the gods&quot;) was a gift-punishment for Epimetheus? http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0132%3Acard%3D83 *She* doesn't do any of the trickery; the gods make her so beautiful Epimetheus can't resist her, and then they give her curiosity she can't overcome and a box/jar she's not supposed to open." CreationDate="2015-10-13T10:18:06.180" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="3820" PostId="1140" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum I suppose so: I removed the part where I said *she* was the person who tricked her husband. That said, I think the rest of my points still stand." CreationDate="2015-10-13T15:19:49.707" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3972" PostId="1140" Score="0" Text="well, pandora+box in greek mytology = eva+apple in christian bible.The analogy is exaclty the same, imo" CreationDate="2015-11-27T09:35:10.970" UserId="965" />
  <row Id="3828" PostId="1143" Score="3" Text="This should be a comment instead of its own answer." CreationDate="2015-10-14T20:42:41.527" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3830" PostId="1143" Score="3" Text="IMO that is a harsh -1 @C.M.Weimer,  a user with a rep of 1 can certainly not comment on other people's posts. I think it is telling why he/she chose to give this as an answer." CreationDate="2015-10-14T23:00:05.753" UserId="833" />
  <row Id="3848" PostId="1143" Score="1" Text="@yanes I think however this *is* actually an answer to the question as stated. &quot;It cannot be resolved&quot; is a valid answer, even if it might be incorrect and/or poor, especially when the question is a essentially a matter of opinion." CreationDate="2015-10-21T06:51:07.743" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3849" PostId="1143" Score="1" Text="@Semaphore, that makes sense as well, I was just suggesting that it would have been impossible for him to leave a comment. However, you are right it could also be a legitimate answer. May be not popular but legitimate..." CreationDate="2015-10-21T14:46:34.470" UserId="833" />
  <row Id="3852" PostId="1143" Score="0" Text="I did not realize he couldn't comment. I don't understand that rule." CreationDate="2015-10-22T01:36:45.117" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3864" PostId="1143" Score="1" Text="I would like to say that I intended this as an answer. I believe that &quot;the question is unresolvable&quot; is the best answer to the question." CreationDate="2015-10-24T22:05:28.240" UserId="821" />
  <row Id="3865" PostId="1144" Score="4" Text="I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it belongs in hinduism.se instead of here. It's a question of faith more than a question of mythology." CreationDate="2015-10-26T06:08:54.827" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6306" PostId="1144" Score="0" Text="@Ajay meena [Lord of Light](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13821.Lord_of_Light)" CreationDate="2016-09-08T17:12:00.470" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="3826" PostId="1145" Score="0" Text="Leslie and Von Daniken have long been discredited as pseudo-scientist quacks." CreationDate="2015-10-14T20:39:33.137" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3829" PostId="1145" Score="0" Text="out of curiosity, is there an explanation for the flying thingies that doesn't involve ufos/aliens. I feel like your answer would be more relevant if you talked about that." CreationDate="2015-10-14T22:51:43.950" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3821" PostId="1146" Score="1" Text="Why does anyone worship anyone?  Why narrow the question to Romans?" CreationDate="2015-10-14T14:55:12.643" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="3822" PostId="1146" Score="2" Text="It's, perhaps, not a good idea to read *too* much into the equivalence of Saturn to Cronus.  They occupy the same genealogical space, I'm not sure how much further it's safe to take the parallel.  [The Roman tendency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretatio_graeca#Interpretatio_romana) to interpret every god in every religion as a parallel of one of their own doesn't mean you should necessarily take their equivalence at face value." CreationDate="2015-10-14T15:43:41.647" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="3823" PostId="1146" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka I may have gone too far with my edit, but I read the question as being confused about the different portrayals of Saturn in greek and roman mythology, and asking why that was the case. I think we should leave this question open, because the question the OP is trying to ask is (in my mind) a genuine and legitimate question, even if the underlying premises are incorrect (see femtoRgon's comment). Besides, [people have expressed disagreement with how often we close things](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/a/294/62), and I think this is a case where we should edit not close." CreationDate="2015-10-14T17:44:34.320" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3827" PostId="1146" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon Not only the Romans, but most Mediterranean and Near Eastern peoples found equivalences in their people. The parallels are actually there (as will be shown when I finish the post)." CreationDate="2015-10-14T20:41:25.947" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3844" PostId="1150" Score="0" Text="Thanks. I too had read Varro and couldn't see a basis for concluding that a  festival (even if Velrtumnus = Volturnus) was in October (or November 1), or that Pomona was involved, and I think your explanation for the misinterpretation makes the most sense. I understand from your answer that you saw no other basis in the ancient sources for a Pomona festival in October/November, right?" CreationDate="2015-10-19T04:58:22.313" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="3845" PostId="1150" Score="1" Text="Yes, as far as I can tell, there's nothing else concerning Pomona's festival. It's no surprise, either. Some of the flaminate gods (Pomona and Falacer being two) were very ancient, and their cult must have been forgotten some. Despite having the distinction of having a flamen instead of a regular sacerdos lead their cult, they don't have any festival days on the calendar.&#xA;&#xA;Of course, a lack of dates means they are ripe for modern invention." CreationDate="2015-10-19T13:34:48.847" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4617" PostId="1150" Score="0" Text="I'm joining the discussion rather late but while reading Fowler's [The Roman festivals of the period of the Republic; an introduction to the study of the religion of the Romans](https://archive.org/details/romanfestivalsof00fowluoft) I stumbled naturally upon the Volturnalia that he places on the 27th of August. No mention of a festival for Pomona either." CreationDate="2016-03-24T15:47:32.310" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="3835" PostId="1151" Score="0" Text="Add to that that Kronos also was worshiped, albeit in a limited manner, and had his own [festival](https://books.google.com/books?id=Ct8pfn89z4UC&amp;pg=PA252&amp;dq=festival+kronos&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0CEAQ6AEwBmoVChMI3N2tmezJyAIVxxoeCh2argow#v=onepage&amp;q=festival%20kronos&amp;f=false)." CreationDate="2015-10-17T15:44:02.530" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3837" PostId="1151" Score="0" Text="Welcome to the site! I just want to say that this is a great answer, and we hope that you stick around." CreationDate="2015-10-17T17:38:15.730" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3838" PostId="1151" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer: decent link there. Does this mean that the Greeks considered the first of spring to be the beginning of the new year? It would make some sort of sense to me, but I don't really know much of anything about classical Greek time reckoning." CreationDate="2015-10-17T18:52:04.423" UserId="743" />
  <row Id="3839" PostId="1151" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet: Thanks for the welcome, I got kinda lucky with this as the first question I answered in the mythology section. I hope I can be a tenth as informative as the folks who have set down roots here already." CreationDate="2015-10-17T18:57:19.067" UserId="743" />
  <row Id="3841" PostId="1151" Score="1" Text="Spring/early summer, yes! Ours used to be that way, too, or rather, the ancient Roman calendar, on which ours is based. At some point January became the first of the year for military-political reasons, but it used to be March. That's why September, October, November, and December are misnomers: septem, octo, novem, and decem mean seven, eight, nine, and ten in Latin." CreationDate="2015-10-18T00:39:57.743" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3859" PostId="1152" Score="2" Text="You should check out T. P. Wiseman's *Remus*, in which he just demolishes the idea of the &quot;twins&quot; based off Ymir (who doesn't actually have a twin) and Remus, whom he argues was made up centuries after Romulus, and isn't a survival of any PIE myth at all.&#xA;&#xA;Also, it wouldn't matter anyway, as Cain and Abel are not from a PIE mythical tradition." CreationDate="2015-10-24T08:23:55.700" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3861" PostId="1152" Score="0" Text="As for Cain and Abel not being a PIE myth, I'm not sure that's quite as damning to the idea as it might appear to be. The Titanomachy echoes the war in Heaven in Semitic and Sumerian myth, so one can reasonably contend there is a 'Near Eastern-Pontic' (my word) mytheme shared by disparate traditions. Forgoing Ymir as unsupportive, and even conceding Remus as a later innovation, we can see a similar diffusion of the mytheme 'conflict involving brothers after which elder brother survives and begins civilization'." CreationDate="2015-10-24T09:50:26.473" UserId="743" />
  <row Id="3862" PostId="1152" Score="0" Text="@C. M. Warner In researching this answer I came across that title and author and have the book queued for delivery at my local library branch." CreationDate="2015-10-24T09:53:14.737" UserId="743" />
  <row Id="14724" PostId="1152" Score="0" Text="I'm not saying the idea is wrong, but it doesn't need to reference the PIE stuff for it." CreationDate="2021-11-22T13:18:55.287" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16440" PostId="1152" Score="0" Text="@cmw - honestly, I think Travis should double down on the PIE connection: we know animal sacrifice was the proper ritual sacrifice in PIE culture from archeology, so if this myth derives from the PIE Divine Twins, then a vegetable sacrifice would be &quot;wrong&quot; and an animal sacrifice would be &quot;right,&quot; which is consistent with the narrative. There's likely a bunch of PIE influence in the early Bible, given the flood narrative, the xenia example in the story of Lot, the Divine Twins of Cain and Able, etc." CreationDate="2023-07-31T16:24:28.560" UserId="9925" />
  <row Id="16441" PostId="1152" Score="0" Text="@codeMonkey The flood narrative isn't PIE; xenia was a common theme throughout cultures, not just PIE and Semitic ones; and Cain and Abel aren't divine. Also, as pointed out under anna's response, non-meat offerings were absolutely in line with Greek rituals for the gods." CreationDate="2023-07-31T18:03:06.073" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4833" PostId="1153" Score="0" Text="Thanks for uploading this  - I've been meaning to read that for a while now." CreationDate="2016-05-24T16:54:48.973" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="3846" PostId="1154" Score="1" Text="I just want to say that this is a great question, but I don't have time to answer it this week. If no one answers it before then and if I have time, I'll write an answer next week." CreationDate="2015-10-19T19:19:13.567" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3855" PostId="1157" Score="0" Text="I nominate *The Kleinbottle.*" CreationDate="2015-10-22T10:13:59.367" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="3858" PostId="1158" Score="0" Text="Quick question: what translation of Plutarch are you using? It's not a big deal, but it's useful for two reasons: (1) it lets anyone follow along, and (2) if I'm a new user and after I read your answer I want to learn more about Plutarch and read his writings, linking to a translation makes it easier for a new user to get started. Thanks" CreationDate="2015-10-23T22:28:54.990" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3871" PostId="1158" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet Translations of classic works are easily found on google. Here: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/home.html" CreationDate="2015-10-27T17:11:34.280" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3872" PostId="1158" Score="0" Text="it's not for me (I can find the texts if I want to), it's for casual readers of the site who might be persuaded to read the full texts if an interesting answer links to them. [Yannis](http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/21546931#21546931): &quot;Answering questions is good. Helping people discover the amazing tales behind their questions is better.&quot;" CreationDate="2015-10-27T20:16:37.460" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3877" PostId="1158" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet Then I guess this site's &quot;requirements&quot; are too demanding for me to participate." CreationDate="2015-10-28T12:18:14.973" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3956" PostId="1158" Score="0" Text="You know, the ship of Theseus is a fine example, but a better example is the sugababes band :)" CreationDate="2015-11-24T07:57:11.970" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="3869" PostId="1163" Score="1" Text="What is the source of this statement?" CreationDate="2015-10-27T14:32:59.357" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3870" PostId="1163" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet It's paraphrasing accounts of what's supposedly revealed to Scientologists upon reaching a high level within the Scientology organization. Here's some discussion of the primary and secondary sources on this story: http://kspaink.home.xs4all.nl/fishman/ot3.html" CreationDate="2015-10-27T16:22:21.380" UserId="870" />
  <row Id="3874" PostId="1167" Score="0" Text="Possibly Gaia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_%28mythology%29 if you count the Cyclopes and Hundred-Handed Ones, but I don't know if the timeline works." CreationDate="2015-10-28T10:09:20.483" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="3890" PostId="1167" Score="1" Text="I think it's a suggestion worth tracking, thanks (I added it to the original post). Gaia had other children, and the circumstances don't exactly match, but two crucial elements do: monstrous children, and that the children were taken from her, causing her pain. Also, now that I think of it, that she's famous AS a mother. Thanks again!" CreationDate="2015-10-29T11:56:50.770" UserId="845" />
  <row Id="3895" PostId="1173" Score="4" Text="Possible duplicate of [Why is 7 important in mythology and religion?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/622/why-is-7-important-in-mythology-and-religion)" CreationDate="2015-11-02T14:39:55.943" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3897" PostId="1173" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer, see the edit." CreationDate="2015-11-02T15:18:26.617" UserId="428" />
  <row Id="3902" PostId="1173" Score="2" Text="I do see there is a difference in the focus of the two questions, but the way they have been worded makes this seem a duplicate. I've edited both posts in an attempt to establish a distinction, hopefully this hasn't affected either of you's intended question." CreationDate="2015-11-03T04:08:41.600" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3904" PostId="1173" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore, I think the edit are ok. At least, as far as my question is concerned." CreationDate="2015-11-03T06:34:40.783" UserId="428" />
  <row Id="3930" PostId="1173" Score="0" Text="I would look at the information about Seshat, the Egyptian goddess of wisdom, &quot;she of 7 points&quot;." CreationDate="2015-11-08T18:03:21.410" UserId="906" />
  <row Id="3898" PostId="1174" Score="0" Text="Combined with a moon cycle.. hm... why not. I'd need to check when were those &quot;identified&quot;..." CreationDate="2015-11-02T15:21:45.357" UserId="428" />
  <row Id="3903" PostId="1174" Score="1" Text="I think this answer would be improved if you also remarked a bit on how ancient knowledge of those bodies were, how long they've been known for etc." CreationDate="2015-11-03T04:11:10.497" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3908" PostId="1174" Score="0" Text="I wasn't sure how pedantic I should get, thanks for the feedback ;-)" CreationDate="2015-11-03T16:31:14.193" UserId="888" />
  <row Id="3905" PostId="1176" Score="5" Text="Different vampire-like creatures from different regions would of course have different **native** names. Is that the sort of thing you are looking for? Or are you looking for different types of vampires in a **specific** (European) tradition? BTW, it doesn't seem to be an issue here, but for future reference, generally it is preferred for each question to be focused on one thing, i.e., not &quot;When I ask this question, I ask a lot of things.&quot;" CreationDate="2015-11-03T10:36:26.793" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3906" PostId="1176" Score="0" Text="Sorry I'm new here, but yes, I was thinking the specific types of vampires. And not native names per say, but more of a code name?" CreationDate="2015-11-03T14:43:13.337" UserId="889" />
  <row Id="3911" PostId="1176" Score="0" Text="Perhaps nicknames, I guess. But the real thing I'm looknig for is code names." CreationDate="2015-11-04T01:06:51.823" UserId="889" />
  <row Id="3912" PostId="1176" Score="0" Text="@Jillifish I've edited the question based on your comments (&quot;looking for code names&quot;). Please edit if it is not general European folklore you're interested in (e.g. perhaps Transylvanian instead). I also tried to make made the question a bit more focused so it might be easier to answer; if you still want to ask about different types of vampires, please do feel free to start another question for it - we welcome as many questions as you would like to ask. Thanks." CreationDate="2015-11-04T04:37:35.397" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3942" PostId="1176" Score="3" Text="Please note that different 'local' names for vampires can also mean a different type of vampire. sometimes there is even a local distinction between two types. (such as Moroi and Strigoi in Romanian, denoting whether the Vampire is undead or not dead)" CreationDate="2015-11-13T11:55:10.397" UserId="921" />
  <row Id="3943" PostId="1176" Score="1" Text="@Amber if you could elaborate on that, I think it would make a great answer." CreationDate="2015-11-14T17:46:54.887" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3910" PostId="1177" Score="3" Text="Do you have sources from history and mythology for many marriages? Thx" CreationDate="2015-11-04T00:23:10.827" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="3985" PostId="1177" Score="0" Text="@DVK updated the answer after very long time. Sorry for the delay" CreationDate="2015-11-30T10:03:15.280" UserId="110" />
  <row Id="3922" PostId="1178" Score="0" Text="It satisfies me, friend, if only to the point of making more specific inquiries. And who dared to downvote this answer? Somebody's just trying to stir the kool-aid, I think." CreationDate="2015-11-06T05:37:11.890" UserId="743" />
  <row Id="3923" PostId="1178" Score="0" Text="@TravisSmithofBexar it's hard to write a definitive answer, because even scholars of the myth can't be 100% sure when answering your question. I also suspect that you are confused because you want to know more about the general meaning of the story as opposed to the meaning of the specific detail about the number of women. If you are serious about learning more about the story, you need to get your hands on a copy of the article &quot;Origin and Development of the Cesair Legend&quot;. It's not available online, but if you ask a librarian they may be able to find you a copy." CreationDate="2015-11-06T17:06:53.443" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3924" PostId="1178" Score="0" Text="@TravisSmithofBexar you might be interested in this article, which summaries different perspectives on the Cesair story: http://www.academia.edu/6553563/On_Cessair_Scholars_and_Their_Commentary_on_the_Cessair_Tale_in_Lebor_Gabala_Erenn. I hesitated when linking you to this article, while it contains some scholarly information it also contains a lot of incorrect statements. However, it does cite the sources of all of the statements it makes, so if you are sufficiently skeptical it would be a good starting place for further research." CreationDate="2015-11-06T17:11:40.870" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3925" PostId="1178" Score="0" Text="@TravisSmithofBexar RE downvoting: voting on this site is out of control. People aren't leaving comments when they downvote, they are upvoting things that they shouldn't be upvoting (I could link to some questions/answers by users that show no effort whatsoever and are based off of inaccurate information, yet are also significantly upvoted), and they are downvoting questions/answers based off of stupid reasons. It's not just this answer, and it's not just my posts: I've seen content by new users that's not deserving of downvotes but is downvoted anyway." CreationDate="2015-11-06T17:17:18.943" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3926" PostId="1178" Score="0" Text="Not confused buddy, but I am interested in the origins and implications of the 'lots of women for a few men' theme." CreationDate="2015-11-06T17:21:12.167" UserId="743" />
  <row Id="3920" PostId="1180" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the consideration on looking for an answer to my question - even though it was brief ;) - I have read A LOT of books about vampires ( The over 8 novel series of Vampire Diaries by L. J. Smith, 5 book series of Vampirates by Justin Somper, ect.) , I was just hoping to get code names because I am absolutely terrible at coming up with any type of name for things." CreationDate="2015-11-06T02:46:04.317" UserId="889" />
  <row Id="3921" PostId="1180" Score="1" Text="@Jillifish those books don't reflect vampires as they were portrayed in folklore, but rather a modern interpretation of vampires. The folklore around vampires is quite different from the modern interpretation. If you're having trouble thinking of a name, have you thought about reversing vampire (i.e. eripmav)? That seems relatively cryptic to me." CreationDate="2015-11-06T03:50:05.277" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3941" PostId="1180" Score="0" Text="Ok, sorry for the misunderstanding. Thank you for the idea though, @Hamlet" CreationDate="2015-11-12T04:18:03.753" UserId="889" />
  <row Id="3950" PostId="1180" Score="2" Text="What can he find in his/her local library that he/she can't find on the Internet?" CreationDate="2015-11-20T10:25:25.077" UserId="762" />
  <row Id="3951" PostId="1180" Score="0" Text="@antrim scholarly works written by academics that aren't out of date." CreationDate="2015-11-21T01:40:55.057" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3955" PostId="1180" Score="2" Text="@Hamlet If his main source of knowledge is his local library I'm going to make a guess and say that it's more likely he will find scholarly works written by academics that **are** out of date." CreationDate="2015-11-23T09:05:26.840" UserId="762" />
  <row Id="3969" PostId="1180" Score="1" Text="@antrim with all due respect, I would have to disagree. Even if the library does not have an up to date collection (which, to be fair, is frequently the case), then most libraries have resources that allow patrons to request materials from other libraries. Regarding the internet, I have only seen a few instances where there are scholarly websites about mythology that are comparable in accuracy and quality to the recently published material on the subject. BTW the OP uses she, not he, in her profile." CreationDate="2015-11-26T16:37:39.613" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3932" PostId="1183" Score="0" Text="For references please use / read [Shrimad Bhagwad Gita as it is - by isckon, in Chapter 15](http://www.bhagavatgita.ru/files/Bhagavad-gita_As_It_Is.pdf) and combination of Tukaram-Gatha or [Dyaneshwari- Translation of Gita by Sant Dyaneshwar](http://cincinnatitemple.com/articles/Dnyaneshwari.pdf)." CreationDate="2015-11-10T06:20:40.327" UserId="908" />
  <row Id="3936" PostId="1183" Score="0" Text="In shrimad Bhagwatam there comes a story, related to Gokarana and Dhundukari, it is also given in that story that there 7 Holes in upper body upper is befpre the waist, that is 2 ears, 2 nostrils, 2 eyes, 1mouth from where if the atma leaves body then it is said yo very good and it is also said that if these holes are used by the soul to exist the body that means the soul goes to heaven and there are 2 more hole in the lower body that is our body waste disposal holes and if the soul exits the body from those two then it is said to be going to hell." CreationDate="2015-11-11T07:29:40.937" UserId="908" />
  <row Id="3939" PostId="1183" Score="1" Text="What you have done in this answer is you've described a specific instance where the number seven is used in &quot;mythology.&quot; What this answer needs to do, in order to actually answer the question, is explain *why* the number seven shows up in places where a belief in &quot;7 chakaras&quot; is not prevalent." CreationDate="2015-11-11T16:56:59.570" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3940" PostId="1183" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet : I was describing importance of 7 I guess, Last part of question `What are the other societies it had an important place in?` This is believed by people who follow `yoga` or `yog-marg` as described by Bhagwat-gita for enlightenment." CreationDate="2015-11-11T17:07:58.753" UserId="908" />
  <row Id="3935" PostId="1184" Score="2" Text="I think there is some subjective judgment that can go in determining this, but I think it's welcome anyway, since it requires informed opinion, and not aesthetic opinion. That said, I'm afraid I'm no help, since I don't know Finnish either!" CreationDate="2015-11-10T22:34:45.560" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="3974" PostId="1190" Score="1" Text="&quot;Our current understanding is of the three as different aspects of one.&quot; I'm going to need to see a source for that statement, because as far as I am aware that statement is incorrect." CreationDate="2015-11-27T16:32:47.343" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3982" PostId="1190" Score="4" Text="According to  Theoi.com(http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/ArtemisGoddess.html#Selene) the Artemis-Selene-Hecate triad comes from Roman-period poetry, not from Greek myth." CreationDate="2015-11-29T17:24:14.637" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="4630" PostId="1190" Score="0" Text="I was taught the same." CreationDate="2016-03-26T20:43:19.597" UserId="1224" />
  <row Id="3965" PostId="1191" Score="0" Text="Not sure why this is downvoted, but an example would be prayer beads." CreationDate="2015-11-26T04:52:19.803" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="3966" PostId="1191" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore Thanks for the vote of confidence, I thought it was on topic here. I tried to make it as specific as possible. Ah that's actually something I haven't thought about." CreationDate="2015-11-26T04:53:48.677" UserId="709" />
  <row Id="3967" PostId="1191" Score="0" Text="Yeah, it is definitely on topic. I guess it's someone applying their personal arbitrary &quot;requirements&quot;; have a +1 to even it out. There isn't really any established equivalent in Chinese mythology for what you're thinking of, but the written spells of Taoists might be considered similar." CreationDate="2015-11-26T05:06:24.650" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="7119" PostId="1196" Score="2" Text="I attended a talk Del Toro gave before the launch of the Strain TV show, mostly to ask about his original film, which also was a Vampire story, [Cronos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronos_(film)), but incredibly deep, thematically speaking.  *(Not a huge fan of the show, per se, but Del Toro is the real deal imo.)*  His research into the origins of vampires was extensive and he was actively working to re-introduce the &quot;strigoi&quot;.  (Bloodlines, which came later, almost certainly took a cue from his earlier Strain novel.)" CreationDate="2017-02-24T19:34:44.593" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="3977" PostId="1197" Score="4" Text="*Why couldn't he get it to the top?* Magic." CreationDate="2015-11-28T21:17:05.263" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3978" PostId="1197" Score="0" Text="Like... what did the magic do?" CreationDate="2015-11-28T22:17:40.173" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="3979" PostId="1197" Score="0" Text="it stopped the rock from reaching the top of the hill, even though Sisyphus was trying as hard as he could. I don't know if the Greeks would have called it magic -- maybe they thought that Sisyphus got tired and dropped the rock every time -- but magic is the closest analogy." CreationDate="2015-11-28T22:49:31.013" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3980" PostId="1197" Score="0" Text="Ahh. That makes sense. What about the 1st part?" CreationDate="2015-11-28T23:17:35.550" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="3981" PostId="1197" Score="0" Text="This is actually a pretty interesting question (the first part, at least). It doesn't seem like many of the main myths referencing Sisyphus talk about the enforcement of the punishment, merely what the punishment was." CreationDate="2015-11-28T23:32:03.320" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4788" PostId="1197" Score="0" Text="I never considered the why, just &quot;gods&quot;, but, yes, a valid question!  Was he compelled, or did he have free will?  Did he choose to keep trying, or was he unable to stop?  What made the boulder so difficult to carry?  The answer below makes it **seem** like, maybe, if he tried hard enough, he just might succeed...but he doesn't." CreationDate="2016-05-12T10:51:52.310" UserId="1563" />
  <row Id="4792" PostId="1197" Score="0" Text="Why did the chicken cross the road? Who solved the Riddle of Sphinx and how? These are just &quot;life stories&quot; meant to represent something complex in simple verbal form. It can mean nothing to you and not matter one bit." CreationDate="2016-05-12T01:27:40.887" UserId="1562" />
  <row Id="4631" PostId="1198" Score="0" Text="Wait so is he doing it out of honor in the last explanation? What will happen if he just stops?" CreationDate="2016-03-26T20:46:02.660" UserId="1224" />
  <row Id="4633" PostId="1198" Score="0" Text="@tox123 stop overthinking it :). The important thing here is the image of him pushing the bolder up the hill, not all the technicalities behind his punishment. I don't know what would happen if he stopped: presumably the gods would get angry and something bad would happen." CreationDate="2016-03-26T21:26:17.510" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4634" PostId="1198" Score="0" Text="@tox123 this link might answer some of your questions: http://dbanach.com/sisyphus.htm" CreationDate="2016-03-26T22:02:46.620" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4653" PostId="1198" Score="1" Text="Strange, I always had the idea in my mind that the boulder was round and when he got it to the top it rolled down the other side." CreationDate="2016-04-04T16:10:42.337" UserId="1417" />
  <row Id="16512" PostId="1198" Score="0" Text="The explanation I heard as for why he continued to take the boulder up the hill requires some knowledge of Sisyphus's story. He cheated death the gain immortality, not once, but twice. Further, one of those time, he got immortality for his entire city. According to Stephen Fry, Sisyphus was told he would be allowed to return to life if he got the boulder to the top of the hill, despite Hade's enchantment. Like doctors who constantly and slowly extend lifespan through generations of effort, Sisyphus can only achieve through godlike effort, and he persists, confident he will someday overcome." CreationDate="2023-10-18T07:57:27.247" UserId="10150" />
  <row Id="3992" PostId="1210" Score="2" Text="Brilliant question! Welcome to the site!" CreationDate="2015-12-04T19:09:09.350" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4022" PostId="1210" Score="1" Text="This *is* a great question.  And I can't, off the top of my head, think of any ancient author who answers it directly.   Of course, we're trying to apply a chronological logic here where there isn't necessarily any.  Reductivism  ultimately gets you as far in mythology as in dream analysis.  They both have their own 'logic', and it isn't always rationally satisfying.  But it can be creatively provocative  --  imagine a poem where Herakles asks Atlas this very question!" CreationDate="2015-12-11T01:32:18.823" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="3991" PostId="1211" Score="3" Text="They were first named in the Italian epic [*Orlando Furioso*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Furioso) by [Ludovico Ariosto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludovico_Ariosto), during the Renaissance. He took the classical griffin and crossed it with a mare." CreationDate="2015-12-04T16:27:35.633" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4023" PostId="1211" Score="0" Text="&quot;There are some practices that consider the Hippogriff a symbol of love.&quot;  Can you explain this statement a bit?" CreationDate="2015-12-11T01:35:32.800" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="4025" PostId="1211" Score="0" Text="@Peter Yes. Because the Griffin and the Mare are considered natural enemies, the fact that they produced the Hippogriff together is a grand symbol of love. This is because it wasn't meant to be. Enemies aren't supposed to love each other. Do you understand?" CreationDate="2015-12-11T19:09:39.010" UserId="799" />
  <row Id="4042" PostId="1211" Score="0" Text="@anonymous No. Your interpretation seems far fetched. Do you have any sources to back up that conclusion?" CreationDate="2015-12-15T01:48:47.057" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4045" PostId="1211" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet Yes. I have several sources. Here is a link to my search. As you will see, there are several sites saying that the hippogriff is a symbol of love." CreationDate="2015-12-15T15:51:56.703" UserId="799" />
  <row Id="4046" PostId="1211" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet Link: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&amp;ion=1&amp;espv=2&amp;ie=UTF-8#q=the%20hippogriff%20being%20a%20symbol%20of%20love" CreationDate="2015-12-15T15:52:14.253" UserId="799" />
  <row Id="4050" PostId="1211" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet does that make sense?" CreationDate="2015-12-16T00:30:15.903" UserId="799" />
  <row Id="3995" PostId="1213" Score="5" Text="A vow on the Styx is not literally unbreakable per se. What it actually means is that the consequences are too dire for a god (it's &quot;the unbreakable oath of the gods&quot;, not any random mortal) to break it. If they failed to carry the oath out or swore under false pretences, they would fall mute and be expelled from Olympos." CreationDate="2015-12-05T08:56:28.237" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="5930" PostId="1213" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore I thought the punishment for breaking such an oath is that you have to drink from the river Styx, not expulsion from Olympus.  But then again I'm not sure what the consequence is for drinking from the river Styx." CreationDate="2016-06-16T19:05:11.613" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="15987" PostId="1215" Score="0" Text="But then how do you explain this answer? https://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/5588" CreationDate="2022-06-08T01:08:43.337" UserId="9288" />
  <row Id="3997" PostId="1219" Score="2" Text="Do Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker count, or no because it was just the hand?" CreationDate="2015-12-06T21:06:08.187" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="3998" PostId="1219" Score="4" Text="@LaurenIpsum Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker do not count because they aren't characters from mythological texts/stories, despite whatever Joseph Campbell has said about them." CreationDate="2015-12-06T22:51:09.910" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="3999" PostId="1219" Score="1" Text="@Hamlet Point. :) I think *Star Trek* is in a better position to be presented as modern mythology than *Star Wars.* It's more internally coherent and directly addresses any number of moral questions." CreationDate="2015-12-07T01:39:01.130" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4246" PostId="1219" Score="1" Text="@LaurenIpsum but what mythology is coherent when you really come down to it. They all have &quot;WTF?&quot; moments, leaps of faiths, and stories that contradict themselves." CreationDate="2016-01-21T07:21:47.587" UserId="1132" />
  <row Id="10617" PostId="1219" Score="0" Text="[Captain Hook](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Hook)?" CreationDate="2018-05-14T23:24:31.980" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10618" PostId="1219" Score="0" Text="@Spencer - Not part of an established religion thing, so no." CreationDate="2018-05-15T00:15:40.973" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="10626" PostId="1219" Score="0" Text="[Pelops](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelops) got an ivory shoulder." CreationDate="2018-05-15T19:29:58.127" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10653" PostId="1219" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou - Nice... Better as an Answer though? ... Could go &quot;There were other prosthetic limbs, see Osiris, Pelops, etc, and some even made of metal / silver, but just no arms, other than these 3&quot;." CreationDate="2018-05-19T11:09:53.297" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="16637" PostId="1219" Score="0" Text="@Malady Except that Pelops wasn't a god properly. But I think limiting it to gods and excluding other types of heroic figures will stunt the overall analysis (depending on what you're trying to do, that is)." CreationDate="2024-03-12T19:57:08.760" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16644" PostId="1219" Score="0" Text="whilst Lludd Llaw Ereint &amp; Nuada Airgetlám have cognate names (Lludd's original name being Nudd), also cognate with an earlier deity (Nodens), it is important to note that our attested stories about them are late, so it's entirely possible that the metal arm trope never applied to a god, but only after they had been reduced in stature to heroes. And ofc there is no evidence of Sigurd ever being worshipped as a god at all, so if you are looking specifically for metal-armed gods all three examples in the question are dubious at best" CreationDate="2024-03-25T12:13:56.827" UserId="10955" />
  <row Id="16645" PostId="1219" Score="0" Text="@Tristan - Interesting! ... Good thing I said &quot;Mythological Being&quot;. Heh." CreationDate="2024-03-25T13:30:31.543" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="16646" PostId="1219" Score="0" Text="@Malady in your comment on Oliver-Grimm's answer you seem to treat the Maiden Without Hands not being worshipped a god as disqualifying (or at least as reducing her relevance). I am just pointing out that that seem problem applies to all three examples quoted in the question" CreationDate="2024-03-25T14:07:00.963" UserId="10955" />
  <row Id="16647" PostId="1219" Score="0" Text="@Tristan - Ah. Thanks!" CreationDate="2024-03-25T14:14:36.683" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="4001" PostId="1220" Score="2" Text="I'm confused by your answer: you say that &quot;the one that you break first would be the *death* of you&quot;, but you also say that &quot;there wasn't a 'divine punishment'&quot; for breaking the oath." CreationDate="2015-12-08T01:57:56.543" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4002" PostId="1220" Score="3" Text="In addition, the source of the quote you cite (http://www.greek-gods.info/ancient-greek-gods/styx/) is not reputable. The punishment that your source claims gods suffer (they don't get to eat &quot;the food of the gods&quot; for one year) seems unrealistically mild, and as such, I'm going to ask that you cite a [more reputable source](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/q/105/62)." CreationDate="2015-12-08T02:01:25.550" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4003" PostId="1220" Score="0" Text="Finally, if you are going to quote from a website/book/text, it's always a good idea to give the source of the quote." CreationDate="2015-12-08T02:06:15.060" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4004" PostId="1220" Score="1" Text="Well, its my first answer. Thanks for the feed back though!" CreationDate="2015-12-08T02:23:44.317" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4005" PostId="1220" Score="3" Text="I'm glad you appreciated the feedback, and you are right: it is your first answer. Let's see if we can find you a better source than the one you are currently using: you should take a look at [theoi](http://theoi.com), which is a reputable online encyclopedia of greek mythology. You should also take a look at this website (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/searchresults?q=styx): it allows you to search through translations of greek texts. You may be able to find something from either of those sources." CreationDate="2015-12-08T03:28:16.917" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4014" PostId="1220" Score="0" Text="I will keep those in mind." CreationDate="2015-12-08T22:11:12.147" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4015" PostId="1221" Score="2" Text="To the close voters: could one of you create a new meta question explaining why you feel that these &quot;myth-identification&quot; questions should be closed? There seems to be a disconnect between this site's moderators (who just reopened a bunch of myth-id questions) and the people voting to close this post. I would also question why people are voting to close this question but not [the question asking for myths where a character looses an arm](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/1219/62): to my eyes, they seem like similar questions, and I'm not sure why they get different responses." CreationDate="2015-12-08T23:42:50.980" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4017" PostId="1221" Score="1" Text="This was not an identification question but rather a list type question. People were voting to close for being too broad because this probably seems like a common type of mythological creatures. That's why I've tried editing it to ask if there's a group name for such creatures instead." CreationDate="2015-12-09T04:50:04.923" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4018" PostId="1221" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore my apologies: by &quot;myth-id&quot; I meant &quot;list type question&quot;, and I was referring to the original version of the question. I'm not sure if your edit helps: it seems like such a drastic change that the meaning of the question is completely different. Besides, I doubt a name for such a creature exists that refers to creatures from multiple cultures (like the word vampire or dragon). I would still like to here from one of the people who voted to close this question: in my mind, it doesn't seem more or less broad compared to something like http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/1167/62" CreationDate="2015-12-09T06:35:48.900" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4020" PostId="1221" Score="1" Text="Looks like the votes are back up. I'm going to side with Hamlet on this. Pure Q&amp;A on mythology using strict StackOverflow rules seems counterproductive." CreationDate="2015-12-10T02:28:38.823" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7437" PostId="1221" Score="0" Text="This looks like a trope identification question, so it would be on topic on TVTROPES WARNING http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?type=tf (after you do some searches yourself)." CreationDate="2017-04-07T09:54:20.193" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="10333" PostId="1221" Score="0" Text="To expound on what @b_jonas suggested: the trope in question is http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EmotionEater." CreationDate="2018-04-06T01:40:09.403" UserId="4938" />
  <row Id="4021" PostId="1223" Score="0" Text="You're asking the right questions, +1. Food for thought: are you sure that the main purpose of mythology is to explain natural phenomenon, &quot;such as the changing of the seasons or the obtainment of fire&quot;?" CreationDate="2015-12-10T22:45:38.900" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4024" PostId="1223" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet Well obviously not *all* phenomenon, but there are many good examples of such" CreationDate="2015-12-11T01:56:55.433" UserId="1005" />
  <row Id="4028" PostId="1223" Score="1" Text="You misunderstood my question. Even in myths like the story of Prometheus, where the myth presumably explains how fire came to the earth, are you sure that &quot;explaining natural phenomena&quot; is the myths main function?" CreationDate="2015-12-12T17:28:35.423" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4036" PostId="1223" Score="0" Text="Well I didn't say that it was the &quot;main&quot; function, I was simply trying to say that those myths probably had reasons for being created, so I'm asking about this one" CreationDate="2015-12-14T05:04:59.010" UserId="1005" />
  <row Id="4043" PostId="1223" Score="1" Text="I think the premise as originally worded, that it was either created to explain something, or was created for the plot of a play, is a false dichotomy. But it's a bit of a tangent to be debating so I took the liberty of deleting it from the question. I do agree that many myths served to explain aspects of the world, but many also have other functions besides being a &quot;good story&quot; for a play." CreationDate="2015-12-15T08:22:31.640" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4026" PostId="1225" Score="2" Text="This is an interesting idea, but it seems to be a personal interpretation. In general, evidence is required to back up things like this. Is there anything you can add to support this conclusion?" CreationDate="2015-12-12T16:32:20.607" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4027" PostId="1225" Score="1" Text="I wouldn't say evidence but it's a recurring theme in myths involving prophecies across all cultures, as well as in stories that involve characters breaking customs or not respecting rituals. If you agree that myths are about propagating norms, this kind of story is about the power of the myths themselves, how they shouldn't be dismissed. I can't think of a single instance of a classical protagonist who defied Fate and profited from it." CreationDate="2015-12-12T17:00:53.190" UserId="1010" />
  <row Id="4029" PostId="1225" Score="0" Text="*it's a recurring theme in myths involving prophecies across all cultures* That's not true for all cultures. *If you agree that myths are about propagating norms* I don't; myths have many other functions. However, @HDE226868 I think this answer does an adequate job at explaining the major theme of the story of Oedipus. This answer isn't incorrect, although the logic used to arrive at the conclusion is flawed." CreationDate="2015-12-12T17:43:59.587" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4030" PostId="1225" Score="0" Text="Fair enough. I feel like I've arrived in a community that is much more well versed in the subject than I am :)" CreationDate="2015-12-12T17:46:15.073" UserId="1010" />
  <row Id="4031" PostId="1225" Score="1" Text="It would have been nice if Stephane had based this answer either off of (1) the text of the story itself, or (2) comparable stories about fate in greek mythology, rather than assuming that ideas about fate are constant across all cultures in the world (they aren't). But the answer isn't incorrect, at least with regards to the Oedipus story. However, it is incomplete: I can think of several other &quot;functions&quot; the myth served. The answer could also be improved by quoting from the text of Oedipus, rather than making unfounded statements about the story." CreationDate="2015-12-12T17:46:59.747" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4032" PostId="1225" Score="0" Text="@HDE226868 according to the current community consensus, [evidence is not required to back up statements like this](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/q/295/62)." CreationDate="2015-12-12T17:50:37.587" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4033" PostId="1225" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet I know it's fine, I just wanted to see it backed up by a text excerpt, as you said. Stephane - Hamlet's advice is excellent here." CreationDate="2015-12-12T17:56:51.317" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4044" PostId="1225" Score="0" Text="@Stephane Welcome to the site! This is a good first answer and I hope to see you post more here. May I suggest that you incorporate your comment on this being a common theme into the text of the answer itself, since it provides a good context for your interpretation." CreationDate="2015-12-15T08:24:29.397" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4035" PostId="1226" Score="2" Text="+1 for the Theoi link. I'm not sure if they held up the sky only when Cronos murdered their father: [this theoi page](http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanHyperion.html) claims that `&quot;In this myth these four Titanes personify the great pillars which appear in Near-Eastern cosmogonies holding heaven and earth apart, or else the entire cosmos aloft.&quot;` This implies that they held up the sky after their father's death. Regardless, good answer!" CreationDate="2015-12-14T03:55:47.227" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4061" PostId="1230" Score="0" Text="In a very provocative study (*Sophocles' Oedipus: Evidence and Self Conviction* [1991]), Frederick Ahl argues that Oedipus was not at all unwitting when he killed his father and married his mother.  The Freudian implications of this thesis suggest that Oedipal desires are not as subconscious as we've always assumed.  Indeed, much clinical literature establishes that there's frequently no latency with regard to Oedipal impulses." CreationDate="2015-12-18T02:31:38.890" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="7774" PostId="1231" Score="1" Text="That seem to be a modern coinage about people and not about traditional myths or folklore, no?" CreationDate="2017-06-23T16:51:51.813" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4063" PostId="1248" Score="2" Text="I think the common explanation is that Athena had no power to punish Poseidon, her uncle. Note also that in Apodollorus' version, Medusa boasted of being more beautiful than Athena." CreationDate="2015-12-18T09:23:07.963" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4064" PostId="1248" Score="0" Text="So it wasn't thqt she found no fault with it was that she couldn't do anything to him makes more sense" CreationDate="2015-12-18T18:08:49.340" UserId="1025" />
  <row Id="6457" PostId="1248" Score="1" Text="@Semaphore You should post as an actual answer!  I can't think of a single instance of the younger generation of Olympians having power over the elder generation except for Hephaestus catching Aphrodite in the net with Ares." CreationDate="2016-10-13T16:20:54.747" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8831" PostId="1248" Score="0" Text="Wasn't there something about Athena being jealous of Medusa's beauty? And also that Athena was an unredeemable B*tch. We can see that in Illiad and in the story about Arachne." CreationDate="2018-01-25T11:49:36.267" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="4066" PostId="1249" Score="1" Text="@bleh I don't need to read Graves' books to answer this question. The question asks what *classical scholars* think of his writings, and I am writing an answer that reports on what *classical scholars* have said about his writings. Since I am not a classical scholar, my opinion is not relevant to this question. And having read what scholars think of his writings, I'm not sure if it is worth my time to read them: although his works apparently have literary merit, I personally would rather read an accurate portrayal of greek mythology." CreationDate="2015-12-19T21:53:52.127" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4067" PostId="1249" Score="0" Text="Nevermind then." CreationDate="2015-12-19T21:55:46.307" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7985" PostId="1254" Score="0" Text="Aren't the stone men too heavy for a boat to carry? It's counter-intuitive for imaging they are the crews. So this boat maybe is not ferried by crewing but carrying [by the stone men] who are not *[harmed by the Waters] of Death*. Logically Gil smashed them and threw them away to lighten the load, thinking they are burdens while failed to realize that the Waters of Death can't float up any boat! However it seemed the story goes on with these two built another boat and finally crossed the river. If so it's contradictory for if the water buoyant why needed the stone men to carry?..." CreationDate="2017-08-03T05:35:03.950" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7986" PostId="1254" Score="0" Text="*continued*... Haven't read the original text so it's just guessing and incomplete. Your quote `the Stone Ones are smashed, and the pine is not [stripped.]` what is *pine* here? The stone men are made with pine as skeleton or the spine?" CreationDate="2017-08-03T05:37:49.700" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="11252" PostId="1259" Score="0" Text="Note that the [Hesiod line](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0132%3Acard%3D109) is somewhat ambiguous *&quot;First of all the deathless gods who dwell on Olympus made a golden race of mortal men who lived in the time of Cronos when he was reigning in heaven.&quot;*  This strongly implies the Olympians, which connotes Zeus' rule, but it also states that Cronos is ruling heaven." CreationDate="2019-01-31T22:06:58.450" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4107" PostId="1267" Score="0" Text="Your quote does not mention Uruk as the question does, why could this be? :/" CreationDate="2015-12-29T12:43:30.647" UserId="116" />
  <row Id="4111" PostId="1267" Score="0" Text="@mrcasals As far as I know, *The Epic of Gilgamesh* is the only primary source that identifies the Apkallu as having laid the foundations or Uruk. It seems possible that the author decided to borrow the idea for the epic. In fact, other remnants, such as the [Sumerian king list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_King_List), state that the &quot;builder of Uruk&quot; was someone completely different, with nothi ng to do with the Apkallu. Anyway, I edited a response into my answer; good question." CreationDate="2015-12-29T14:20:02.717" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4097" PostId="1268" Score="0" Text="Somehow, I'm going to guess that we won't be able to get an exact date for the concealment of &quot;the Dragons in Dinas Emrys&quot;." CreationDate="2015-12-28T18:00:43.497" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4098" PostId="1268" Score="0" Text="Anyway, I'm not sure if the creators of the triads thought it was relevant to record the exact dates of these mostly fictional events." CreationDate="2015-12-28T18:21:31.357" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4104" PostId="1270" Score="1" Text="Here's a list of [Ancient Mesopotamian Gods and Goddesses](http://oracc.museum.upenn.edu/amgg/listofdeities/index.html) you might find inspiring. I think they are doing an excellent job of presenting all the information you need to get a basic familiarity with a deity." CreationDate="2015-12-29T00:58:03.757" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4112" PostId="1270" Score="1" Text="@Yannis that is perfect. It gave me ideas I hadn't even considered. It's beautiful. The fields 'Further Reading' and 'Time Periods Attested' are excellent! This is completely what I needed. One of my goals is to develop a D3js.org plugin that gives a timeline for each deity as you browse... so you can when they were prominent. I wasn't sure how to visualize this... awesome... thank you so much." CreationDate="2015-12-29T14:47:34.977" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4095" PostId="1271" Score="0" Text="But what fields would be relevant to capture? God name... Parents... Children... Siblings... (yes) But what about Disciplines (god of ocean), Famous Feats (created reality, gave fire to humanity), etc. What 'pieces' of data would be best suited to capturing for ALL deities from all mythologies / religions...?" CreationDate="2015-12-28T15:08:44.640" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4096" PostId="1271" Score="0" Text="In the bubbles, list major events that happened." CreationDate="2015-12-28T15:45:01.703" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4101" PostId="1272" Score="0" Text="This seems like a great idea, but for the DISPLAY of a populated database / website not as a structure to STORE the data into. Once the database is populated, since I'll be building it in Wordpress and they added REST capabilities, I could utilize something like a TREE structure BASED ON the data. For an example: http://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/4339083" CreationDate="2015-12-28T18:53:21.353" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4103" PostId="1272" Score="3" Text="Heh, you should take a closer look at the answer @randomblink, you've completely missed the point here. The suggestion is to look at graph theory concepts for structuring and storing your data, it has nothing to do with how you'll represent your data visually. Also, Wordpress? Eeek!" CreationDate="2015-12-28T22:27:48.553" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4113" PostId="1272" Score="0" Text="lol... @Yannis I use WP-Types.com Toolset for developing custom post types. I can develop and hash this out fairly quickly (once I have a starting point) and if it grows quick enough that Wordpress doesn't fit I can always use the export options to push the pertinent pieces to another system. But for now... it's free and allows me to get something in place that is both secure and beautiful (if you have premium themes!) with little time upfront to create the look." CreationDate="2015-12-29T14:49:27.310" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4114" PostId="1272" Score="2" Text="@chaimedes now that I took a second look at what you posted (thanks @Yannis) I like it. It would be a modular development structure. Instead of create a DEITY object in the database I would create a DISCIPLINE object (or function) and then I could catalogue and connect the functions with deities... cultures, gender, etc. It's definitely something to think about. I am not sure how I would do this in my current environment but I'll give everything another look over. Thank you." CreationDate="2015-12-29T14:52:06.057" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4147" PostId="1272" Score="1" Text="I'm learning D3js.org for both work and personal projects (like this one). I'm hoping that once it is complete I can present a side-page that consumes this DB as a D3 model like this one ( http://mbostock.github.io/d3/talk/20111116/force-collapsible.html ) or this one ( http://www.findtheconversation.com/concept-map ). But first I have to get some data into my DB and then I have to learn D3. I'm still watching tutorials and reading documentation... so we'll see. Either way I like your idea both as an idea for laying this out as well as for display once the DB is populated." CreationDate="2016-01-05T21:40:18.837" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4257" PostId="1272" Score="0" Text="https://airtable.com/shrlBgovLKv56y9bp : I discovered Airtable and it's allowing me to slowly piece this monster together and plan out the design while working with live data. I didn't know if you might be interested but here is a link to see a start on the design with some quick copy-n-paste data." CreationDate="2016-01-25T14:24:27.333" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4099" PostId="1273" Score="2" Text="I do understand that not every culture has gods / deities as I'm used to thinking of them and I'm hoping to expand this structure once I figure out what relevant entities require referencing. I do want to include characters from mythology, but my starting goal is to get a LIST of all relevant gods and god-like beings from mythology and religion. I'm aware that there are some nice sites, but none have 1) the guarantee that I can use their data as I desire 2) the ability to reference each 'db object' and have it display mid-blog / tweet / fb post / etc like I want it to." CreationDate="2015-12-28T18:36:46.340" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4100" PostId="1273" Score="2" Text="By 'field' I am trying to convey that I am looking for metadata properties, descriptors, etc. that are generic-enough to fit for most deities (and deity-like entities). Think &quot;NAME&quot;... all mythological entities have a name. Some have hundreds. NAME would be a field I could use. DISCIPLINE would be another. Don't be locked into &quot;text field&quot; concepts. I can offer multiple choice selections. That way, when entering Dionysus I could enter under DISCIPLINE several entries such as 'grape harvest', 'winemaking', 'wine', 'ritual madness', 'fertility', 'theatre' and 'religious ecstasy'." CreationDate="2015-12-28T18:48:59.857" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4102" PostId="1273" Score="0" Text="@randomblink if `I do understand that not every culture has gods / deities as I'm used to thinking of them and I'm hoping to expand this structure once I figure out what relevant entities require referencing`, then why do you later say that `Think &quot;NAME&quot;... all mythological entities have a name. Some have hundreds. NAME would be a field I could use. DISCIPLINE would be another.`" CreationDate="2015-12-28T19:12:37.017" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4115" PostId="1273" Score="1" Text="Because when a culture doesn't have a standardized concept of a deity but does have mythologies discussing entities with powers above those of humans then this is what I am referencing. I'm looking for the characters in the stories of the various cultures from history to catalogue. I call them deities because this is the easiest, most understand definition to use to get a group to grasp my topic. Does that make sense?" CreationDate="2015-12-29T14:54:45.057" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4116" PostId="1273" Score="1" Text="Also I broke up my responses to you to show that I was responding to two separate statements you made. Hope that clears up my text." CreationDate="2015-12-29T14:55:44.727" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4106" PostId="1274" Score="1" Text="I'd be more interested in finding out why several different ancient mythologies have &quot;flood wipes out humanity&quot; stories." CreationDate="2015-12-29T12:32:25.943" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4108" PostId="1274" Score="3" Text="If only we had a Q&amp;A site where you could ask such questions @LaurenIpsum ;)" CreationDate="2015-12-29T13:32:52.987" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4109" PostId="1274" Score="1" Text="Is that a legitimate question for this site? It sounds more like HistorySE to me. I'll ask it if it's viable here." CreationDate="2015-12-29T13:45:23.693" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4110" PostId="1274" Score="3" Text="In general, comparative mythology is firmly on topic and we have more than a few [comparative questions](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/comparative). Specifically for flood myths, interesting questions exist - and more importantly have been answered - on both sites: [Was early Sumerian civilization wiped out by a flood?](http://history.stackexchange.com/q/2094/739) (History.SE) - [Are Noah and Ziusudra the same person?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/305/57) &amp; [The Last Glacial Period in Myth](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/898/57) (Myth.SE)." CreationDate="2015-12-29T14:09:10.873" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4105" PostId="1275" Score="1" Text="It sounds like you wanted t raise additional points beyond your personally preferred explanation provided here. If so, you should summarise those points here rather than rely on a link." CreationDate="2015-12-29T10:30:16.663" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4118" PostId="1275" Score="0" Text="I raised the points I wanted to raise - anyone who wants to read the rest can follow the link. The points that gods are pissy and that Medusa was (in one version) a priestess of Athena's seemed like relevant points. It's interesting that a lot of pop myth websites prefer the priestess explanation, by the way, it makes sense of why Medusa had to suffer punishment." CreationDate="2015-12-30T15:27:54.133" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="4125" PostId="1275" Score="0" Text="What @Semaphore is saying is that you consider the information in the link valuable. Therefore, you should add in that information. Link rot can severely hurt answers." CreationDate="2016-01-01T22:58:42.087" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4131" PostId="1275" Score="0" Text="I take your point, but just for the record the points in Quora that I didn't mention were ones I felt were not important enough to rehash, just things I though people might find interesting.  I will be careful to be clearer about that in the future." CreationDate="2016-01-03T00:09:06.597" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="7132" PostId="1278" Score="2" Text="Did the rabbi ever say where the temple was?" CreationDate="2017-03-03T00:08:14.527" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="13679" PostId="1278" Score="0" Text="@Spencer he merely writes &quot;in the far-off isles of the sea&quot;." CreationDate="2020-07-19T14:52:15.513" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="4119" PostId="1280" Score="1" Text="The community seems to be undecided on the suitability of &quot;examples of&quot; questions like this one. Feel free to join the Meta discussion and help us clarify our position: [Can we ask “example” questions?](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/284/can-we-ask-example-questions)" CreationDate="2015-12-31T15:02:37.317" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4128" PostId="1282" Score="0" Text="Hello Greg and welcome to the site. I am a bit confused about the second part of your answer: Gilgamesh mocks Ishtar relentlessly. Doesn't  that count as antagonizing her?" CreationDate="2016-01-02T11:13:02.760" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4130" PostId="1282" Score="0" Text="According to the lecture by Michael Sugrue, it is Enkidu who mocks Ishtar relentlessly, not Gilgamesh.  Sorry if I did not make that clear in my answer." CreationDate="2016-01-02T19:45:14.840" UserId="446" />
  <row Id="4123" PostId="1283" Score="0" Text="Janet, you've posted a string of answers recently that either don't answer the question you've posted them to or are low quality. I recommend that you take the site [tour] and visit the [help] to learn more about what is expected of answers on Mythology Stack Exchange." CreationDate="2016-01-01T15:06:01.787" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4124" PostId="1283" Score="0" Text="I tried to fix up the grammar, but the assertions herein ranges from arguably reasonable to rather suspect." CreationDate="2016-01-01T15:45:15.463" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4132" PostId="1286" Score="1" Text="was using cell it messes.didnt mean 2 say she was there b4 cronus eithier but because of him.its ironic that he killed his dad who feared his children pushing them back into their mothers womb and cronus killed him saving them and they were gods, then he feared his children and ate them and  his son fought and trapped him saving his siblings who became the olympian gods. history repeats itslef.  and also just to add, man mustve wriiten it by the fact the aphrodite is love and she was basically made from a mans penis. ok.  thats exactly what a man would want a woman to think love is, lol" CreationDate="2016-01-03T04:52:53.910" UserId="1067" />
  <row Id="8477" PostId="1286" Score="0" Text="Where did I read that Aphrodite was born from sea mist?  I don't recall her being made from a mans penis." CreationDate="2017-10-15T18:37:13.477" UserDisplayName="user28" />
  <row Id="4127" PostId="1290" Score="3" Text="Hi. Do you think you could be more exact as to what you're discussing here? Even if some of us recognize what you mean, pictures or texts or whatever book you're using to get this information would be beneficial to more people. Thanks!" CreationDate="2016-01-02T04:59:44.763" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4133" PostId="1293" Score="0" Text="Pomegranates were *offered* to Demeter? Why would they offer a reminder of the food which forced her daughter to leave her? That seems counter-intuitive." CreationDate="2016-01-03T12:29:27.753" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4134" PostId="1293" Score="0" Text="Well, they apparently did :^)." CreationDate="2016-01-03T14:09:35.883" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4135" PostId="1293" Score="2" Text="I think it's the other way around. The pomegranates were offered to Demeter early, and later a myth developed around it to explain the ritual." CreationDate="2016-01-03T17:37:56.890" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4136" PostId="1293" Score="0" Text="Yes possibly true." CreationDate="2016-01-03T20:10:18.167" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4141" PostId="1297" Score="5" Text="Books and books have been written on this subject. Short answer: quite a lot, but it's hard to tell, because there was so much connecting them, too. Long answer: I'll need some time to write up a proper response!" CreationDate="2016-01-05T08:04:51.700" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4142" PostId="1297" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer I can wait :)  Can you also suggest some nice books to get started at Greek Mythology [on chat](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/23261/the-pantheon)?" CreationDate="2016-01-05T08:14:52.200" UserId="1076" />
  <row Id="4143" PostId="1297" Score="3" Text="http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/1132/62" CreationDate="2016-01-05T12:20:19.287" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4145" PostId="1297" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet Thank you. That's an amazing resource :)" CreationDate="2016-01-05T13:59:26.697" UserId="1076" />
  <row Id="4148" PostId="1298" Score="0" Text="I actually chose to use the name DEITY in my question here because I didn't want to confuse any non-DB oriented SE Users. I actually have created the initial structure using the term ENTITY. This will allow me to include important mythological characters... priests, demi-gods, etc. I'm not sure how I would avoid using NAME tho... Your statement REALLY resonates (due to the VAST number of gods who have 30+ names). So I'm stumped as to which direction you would go for the initial ENITY object? It requires a 'name' to create it? Right? Intrigued... hoping for more info." CreationDate="2016-01-05T21:43:21.070" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4149" PostId="1298" Score="1" Text="@randomblink It doesn't have to have a human-readable name unless you require one in your project, a unique ID would suffice. If you do require a readable name, you could go a number of ways. For example, you could attach a single `name` field to your `entity`, and fill that field with most-commonly-used or most-widely-known or most-widely-referred name of an entity." CreationDate="2016-01-05T21:46:03.620" UserId="644" />
  <row Id="4150" PostId="1298" Score="1" Text="@randomblink Personally, if speaking relational, I would create `entities`, `names` and `entitynames` data entities (i.e. tables), AND there would be a nullable (i.e. non-obligatory) `default-name-id` field in `entities`, which would refer a `name` to use as default by it's `id`." CreationDate="2016-01-05T21:50:27.193" UserId="644" />
  <row Id="4151" PostId="1298" Score="0" Text="Ok... technically, I'm doing this in Wordpress. Why? Because this affords me the luxury of working in a system I'm 100% confortable with and capable of working under the hood. But on top of that, I am using WP-Types which allows you to create custom post types... or custom tables (in a sense). So when I create ENTITIES the field 'name' is how IT identifies them. Maybe I could create an ID concept and use that... Like Zeus would be ZGCR to mean, Z = common name is Zeus, G = geospatial significance is Greece, C and R = Parents are Cronus and Rhea...? I don't know... but I really like your idea." CreationDate="2016-01-05T21:50:40.910" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4152" PostId="1298" Score="0" Text="https://wp-types.com/ has a product called Toolset. It allows me to create all of these objects in a GUI. Once created it generates web pages for all of this. Instantly based on the Wordpress concept. This will allow me to create an entity... ZEUS... and there is now a URL to reach this Deity entry... www.domainname.com/entities/zeus as an example (that url doesn't work). But this allows me to (at my leisure) update and expand on these gods... and to bring in others who share an interest to offer them a place to create a repository available to the web." CreationDate="2016-01-05T21:53:21.273" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4153" PostId="1298" Score="0" Text="And Wordpress just recently added REST Services. Soooo... technically, when I am even moderately into this project I can start developing side apps that consume these gods and goddesses as services, allowing others to tie in and reference my gods and goddesses in their own work." CreationDate="2016-01-05T21:54:45.963" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4155" PostId="1298" Score="0" Text="Let us [continue this discussion in chat](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/33881/discussion-between-aleksei-omelaienko-and-randomblink)." CreationDate="2016-01-05T22:31:31.470" UserId="644" />
  <row Id="4156" PostId="1299" Score="0" Text="can you provide some context for your question? Are you just confused about what it means, or is this part of a homework assignment? Did you find this quote in a book or just on the website linked?" CreationDate="2016-01-06T10:59:42.257" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4157" PostId="1299" Score="1" Text="This quote was woven into the costume for Superman in the upcoming Batman v. Superman film: &#xA;http://comicbook.com/2015/12/07/supermans-suit-in-batman-v-superman-has-a-quote-on-it/&#xA;Other than the literal meaning or the universality of the hero's journey, is there any other particular significance to this quotation that would warrant it's inclusion into Superman's costume?" CreationDate="2016-01-06T19:49:02.707" UserId="1088" />
  <row Id="4159" PostId="1305" Score="0" Text="Edit as needed." CreationDate="2016-01-07T21:03:51.600" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4180" PostId="1305" Score="0" Text="Update- full list." CreationDate="2016-01-10T23:45:35.280" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4267" PostId="1305" Score="0" Text="bleh, you should add the Titans back in, because Titans *are* gods." CreationDate="2016-01-26T15:47:28.097" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4269" PostId="1305" Score="0" Text="No, they are titans." CreationDate="2016-01-26T22:12:47.100" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4270" PostId="1305" Score="3" Text="Titans *are* gods. I quote the Oxford Classical Dictionary: &quot;Titans, name inherited by Hesiod for **gods** of the generation preceding the Olympians.&quot;" CreationDate="2016-01-26T22:19:49.590" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4271" PostId="1305" Score="0" Text="Edited................" CreationDate="2016-01-26T23:13:03.083" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="14469" PostId="1305" Score="0" Text="Plutus - God of wealth is Hades. Hades was the first form of God of Death, but later on, they named Plutonas, changings some of this god's feats. &#xA;Hades is spelled as ΑΔΗΣ in modern Greek and Plutus is ΠΛΟΥΤΟΝΑΣ.&#xA;Putting ΠΛΟΥΤΟΝΑΣ on google, gives me as second result the greek wikipedia that has hades-pluto as synonymous. Maybe an attempt to tralsate that wiki page might give you more info." CreationDate="2021-05-27T08:01:17.960" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="4174" PostId="1308" Score="5" Text="I feel like this shows a lack of research effort." CreationDate="2016-01-09T18:53:19.873" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4268" PostId="1310" Score="2" Text="There are vast stores of accurate, reputable sources available online if you [know](https://scholar.google.com/) [where](http://www.jstor.org/) [to](https://www.academia.edu/) [look](https://doaj.org/).  Don't be so quick to discount it, especially for the many people whose local library may look [like this](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vgqb9zN9UCs/S8bYKcpuQ6I/AAAAAAAAAcI/4tUUM_09nD0/s1600/100_1295.jpg), if they have one in their town at all." CreationDate="2016-01-26T17:07:42.223" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4170" PostId="1312" Score="1" Text="You are confusing Helios, the original Titan Greek sun god https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios, with Phaethon, the son of Apollo (or maybe Helios) who insisted on driving the sun's chariot and couldn't control the horses so the earth burned and froze until Zeus killed him with a thunderbolt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaethon" CreationDate="2016-01-09T14:06:41.997" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4173" PostId="1312" Score="0" Text="No, I was asking about Phaethon. If you put that as an answer I will gladly accept it." CreationDate="2016-01-09T14:59:57.380" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4177" PostId="1323" Score="0" Text="Well, that's not even because its Mors- https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&amp;ion=1&amp;espv=2&amp;ie=UTF-8#q=thanatos%20roman%20name" CreationDate="2016-01-10T14:19:34.410" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4181" PostId="1323" Score="0" Text="Must've been a critical research error on part by a certain writer, then..." CreationDate="2016-01-11T02:05:16.090" UserId="1101" />
  <row Id="4182" PostId="1323" Score="0" Text="AHEM Rick Riordan?" CreationDate="2016-01-11T02:19:01.437" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4183" PostId="1323" Score="0" Text="perhaps. perhaps not. *cough* yes *cough*" CreationDate="2016-01-11T02:21:27.710" UserId="1101" />
  <row Id="4184" PostId="1323" Score="0" Text="heheheheh he actually does say that Thanatos was a roman god, but they preferred that he would be called by the Greek because of the tension..." CreationDate="2016-01-11T02:25:15.947" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4192" PostId="1323" Score="0" Text="I was under the impression he meant they never renamed him period, because it would mean they added death into their pantheon..." CreationDate="2016-01-12T05:44:31.460" UserId="1101" />
  <row Id="4266" PostId="1323" Score="2" Text="Best not to trust fictional writers for statements of history." CreationDate="2016-01-26T15:47:01.960" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4278" PostId="1323" Score="1" Text="Very true. I tend to be skeptical on accounts like this." CreationDate="2016-01-27T21:04:47.217" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8672" PostId="1323" Score="0" Text="Thanks for contributing!  Just to put the issue to rest, Hesiod does mention Thanatos in the [Theogony, ~755](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0130%3Acard%3D729).  In the Greek it's [Θάνατος](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3Dqa%2Fnatos)  But I guess this answer could be seen as technically correct, in that the Roman incarnation is not equivalent, but the actual original Greek deity..." CreationDate="2017-12-07T20:03:53.257" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4189" PostId="1327" Score="0" Text="If you want to read an accurate portrayal of greek mythology, then perhaps it doesn't make sense to read Rick Riordan. While I'm sure that he cares about making his books relatively accurate, I doubt that's his biggest concern..." CreationDate="2016-01-12T00:19:48.780" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4190" PostId="1327" Score="0" Text="I know, I use other sources, I just picked up that book and thought it was interesting :P" CreationDate="2016-01-12T00:20:31.343" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4191" PostId="1328" Score="0" Text="Great question. I would like to see more like it: most of the questions lately have been really easy to answer, and I have a feeling that this won't be." CreationDate="2016-01-12T04:16:24.507" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4211" PostId="1328" Score="1" Text="All I can find is various references to Mongol folklore that it signifies the child will be a great leader. Being a mostly oral tradition until the conquest of China its hard to pin down a definitive source from the Mongols themselves, only modern commentators that state this. The death and destruction does therefore seem to be a Western corruption of the true Mongol meaning." CreationDate="2016-01-15T11:46:08.230" UserId="430" />
  <row Id="4259" PostId="1328" Score="0" Text="@CearonO'Flynn - Definitely my immediate response, but it's in &quot;the Secret History&quot;, so it's a bit harder to just dismiss.  Probably unlikely to be a *Western* corruption, at any rate." CreationDate="2016-01-25T19:53:09.190" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4705" PostId="1328" Score="3" Text="Apparently someone wrote [an article](http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTotal-ZYMD200706011.htm) about this, I unfortunately do not have access to it." CreationDate="2016-04-14T09:41:06.020" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="4723" PostId="1328" Score="0" Text="@plannapus - Nice find.  Unfortunately I don't have access to it either (nor do I read Mandarin).  Still, the abstract is something to go on!" CreationDate="2016-04-21T21:10:14.057" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4193" PostId="1330" Score="3" Text="Do you mean it is often confused with the Rod of Asclepius? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius&#xA;&#xA;The caduceus ended up as a medical symbol due to this confusion. ambulances still have the Rod of Asclepius however..." CreationDate="2016-01-13T02:36:51.650" UserId="1020" />
  <row Id="4194" PostId="1330" Score="1" Text="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus_as_a_symbol_of_medicine&#xA;&#xA;Or perhaps I misunderstood you, but I still gave +1 for effort." CreationDate="2016-01-13T02:38:00.943" UserId="1020" />
  <row Id="4196" PostId="1333" Score="0" Text="Do you mean the earliest culture with a mythology? Or some individual myth supposed to be the first observed?" CreationDate="2016-01-13T15:07:14.103" UserId="1058" />
  <row Id="4198" PostId="1333" Score="0" Text="I'm looking for what historians would consider the first myth(ology) for our species." CreationDate="2016-01-13T16:55:32.790" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4204" PostId="1333" Score="1" Text="As far as historic records, the wikipedia article you've linked to provides a pretty good answer:  Sumeria and Early Dynastic Egypt.  Cave paintings would generally be regarded as decidedly *pre*historic, though, so that example is somewhat at odds with your linked resource." CreationDate="2016-01-14T16:41:38.997" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4207" PostId="1333" Score="0" Text="I'm flattered that you linked to my blog in your question. However, no where in that blog post do I define mythology as &quot;a system of beliefs that explain a peoples culture, nature, etc.&quot; And as @femtoRgon noted, the definition you gave for &quot;recorded&quot; is also at odds with the wikipedia page that you linked to." CreationDate="2016-01-14T22:54:27.810" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4212" PostId="1333" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet I understand that you didn't define it straight up, but it appeared that you presented several concepts that left me with the impression above. 1) &quot;One of the meanings of the word folklore refers to a unique form of cultural expression.&quot; - my reason for using culture in the reference to your article." CreationDate="2016-01-15T17:05:08.540" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4213" PostId="1333" Score="0" Text="@Hamtlet  to continue 2) &quot;And we have myths, which are told as a sacred truth, and which are set in a sort of prototype of our world.&quot; - I felt this was showing that myths present mans desire to explain our world through this fictional setting where gods and demons live." CreationDate="2016-01-15T17:08:04.710" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4214" PostId="1333" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet to continue, in the section (Myth Defined by Non-Folklorists : https://taxicrash.github.io/2015/01/04/Defining-Myth-Folklore-Legend/#myth-defined-by-non-folklorists) it felt like this was nicely summed up in my simplistic rendering for clarity and brevity.&#xA;&#xA;No. You did not declare that Mythology was X. But your article lent credence to my claim that mythology can be simply defined in a way that most people would recognize what I meant by saying &quot;Mythology&quot; on a Mythology StackExchange. I'm STILL amazed that I'm being asked what I mean by using the word this board is named after." CreationDate="2016-01-15T17:11:55.067" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4215" PostId="1333" Score="0" Text="AND to further support my definitions, especially for &quot;Recorded History&quot; I believe this line from Wikipedia clearly supports my verbage, &quot;Recorded history or written history is a historical narrative based on a written record or other documented communication. Recorded history can be contrasted with other narratives of the past, such as mythological, orals or archeological traditions.&quot; - If this doesn't clearly back up my definition &quot;(by recorded I mean we have documentation, i.e., cave wall drawings, tomes, inscriptions on bone, etc.)&quot; then I seriously need some clarification as to why." CreationDate="2016-01-15T17:14:48.627" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4222" PostId="1333" Score="0" Text="@randomblink I edited this question: I hope you approve of the edits I made." CreationDate="2016-01-15T19:02:28.263" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4226" PostId="1333" Score="1" Text="@randomblink - You linked to a page on a topic with a different meaning than what you wanted.  You only need to read two more sentences to get:  &quot;Recorded history begins ... around the 4th millennium BC,&quot;  Cave wall drawings exist as far back as 35,000 - 40,000 years ago, I believe." CreationDate="2016-01-16T00:35:37.437" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4230" PostId="1333" Score="1" Text="This question has now been opened by community consensus, in part after Hamlet's extensive edits. I'm still not sure whether or not it was the right move, even though I cast the 5th reopen vote, in part because religion does not necessarily lead to mythology, and vice versa. However, in many ancient examples, the two were intertwined, and so it would appear to be on-topic." CreationDate="2016-01-16T19:53:35.557" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4231" PostId="1333" Score="2" Text="Randomblink, while I appreciate your attempts to clarify at times, it would be good if (A) you don't use parts if edits rant about your question being closed and say that we don't know how to run the site, because your definition of &quot;mythology&quot; absolutely needed to be clarified, and (B) add more information in the original question in the future. When in doubt, assume that readers need to know a bit more about what you're saying; make sure that everything is defined correctly. This should only be a problem in a few cases, like this one." CreationDate="2016-01-16T19:55:15.237" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4232" PostId="1333" Score="0" Text="Whereas I can appreciate that I went overboard... Please remember... This question was put on hold originally because A) I used the word mythology and I was told I needed to clarify and B) I used the phrase 'recorded history' and I was told I needed to clarify. Mythology needed clarification on a Mythology board. 'Recorded History' needed clarification?!" CreationDate="2016-01-16T20:56:00.117" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4233" PostId="1333" Score="1" Text="@randomblink Well, this is in part because the scope of Mythology is changing constantly. We've had many discussions on topics like whether to include things like Scientological stories, or just what kind of questions regarding religion are acceptable. I would assume that some of the close votes may have originated because you didn't state what the limits of your &quot;mythology&quot; are. I understand how frustrating this is, and how thick some of us must seem. But the scope of the question needed to be clarified a bit more, and so it was put on hold while you edited it to - prevent incorrect answers." CreationDate="2016-01-16T22:58:01.443" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4234" PostId="1333" Score="0" Text="That is the clearest answer for why everything happened the way it did. Thank you very much. That makes so much more sense. Thank you for taking the time." CreationDate="2016-01-17T00:45:53.803" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4217" PostId="1335" Score="0" Text="My problem is I don't regard there to be a difference between religion and mythology except time. The pagan priests that used to sacrifice to Thor believed their stories just as fervently as a current Catholic Priest believes in his communion ritual. In a thousand years tho, Thor and Jesus will hold the same position... a story that was believed by many." CreationDate="2016-01-15T18:38:42.340" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4218" PostId="1335" Score="0" Text="@randomblink First of all, I think that your question should be reopened (i have cast a reopen vote). Second, I would like to apologize for making a big deal about the fact that definitions you gave for mythology and recorded were different from the webpages you linked to: **the important thing is that you gave definitions, and I should have paid more attention to that**." CreationDate="2016-01-15T18:46:21.740" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4219" PostId="1335" Score="1" Text="I would also like to thank you: I've just made several edits to the blog post that I think should make the definitions that I've provided much more clearer" CreationDate="2016-01-15T18:48:06.013" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4220" PostId="1335" Score="1" Text="@randomblink Regarding the difference between religion and mythology: I disagree, although you raise an important point: people belittle stories like the Norse myths by calling them mythology while stories like the bible are called religion. To simplify things, I would draw a distinction between the religion christianity and the mythology of the story of the bible, the same way I would distinguish between the Norse religion and the Norse mythology." CreationDate="2016-01-15T18:51:37.837" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4221" PostId="1335" Score="1" Text="@randomblink Finally, I agree with you that this site should have a clear definition of mythology -- it's why I wrote the blog post that attempts to define mythology in the first place!" CreationDate="2016-01-15T18:53:47.997" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4228" PostId="1335" Score="0" Text="I'm actually thoroughly impressed with your blog... I wish you had setup the config.yml file with the Atom feed so I could subscribe... But it's good stuff. Thank you for your posts AND your edit. I lost my mind today... that was SO stressful and I let it get to me. Stackexchange is a very weird place on the best of days, and when it doesn't work like it should (in my opinion) it frustrates me too much." CreationDate="2016-01-16T02:22:20.113" UserId="235" />
  <row Id="4229" PostId="1335" Score="0" Text="@randomblink sorry about causing stress: I wish we had avoided that. The code for the blog [is on github](https://github.com/taxicrash/taxicrash.github.io/), so feel free to submit a pull request if something doesn't work. Although I'm pretty sure that you can subscribe: the Atom feed is at https://taxicrash.github.io/atom.xml and works for me." CreationDate="2016-01-16T04:28:38.060" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4206" PostId="1336" Score="0" Text="What about the rest of the Gods?? Why not just a cow for Hera?" CreationDate="2016-01-14T20:24:05.030" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4241" PostId="1336" Score="0" Text="Hera was the one who cast out Hephaestus to begin with (at least according to one version of the story), so it's doubtful her symbolism would be useful. &#xA;In particular, &quot;Hephaistos refused to listen to any other of the gods save Dionysos&quot;, who got him drunk and led him back to Olympus." CreationDate="2016-01-18T18:12:35.667" UserId="1058" />
  <row Id="9038" PostId="1337" Score="0" Text="I still think that cockatrice should not be considered the same as basilisk. Just like salamander is not a dragon." CreationDate="2018-02-26T23:10:31.167" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="4209" PostId="1338" Score="2" Text="Thank you for a nice answer.  However, the basilisk having come out for a rooster egg, incubated by a toad, don't you think it's weird that a rooster's crow can be able to kill it?" CreationDate="2016-01-15T03:10:49.247" UserId="1076" />
  <row Id="4210" PostId="1338" Score="0" Text="The stories about hatching from a rooster egg were, as I understand, first recorded (by [Theophilus Presbyter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophilus_Presbyter)) about 1000 years after Pliny the Elder's account, so seemed unlikely to be relevant to addressing this particular question." CreationDate="2016-01-15T04:57:29.790" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="9039" PostId="1338" Score="0" Text="@Dawny33 Cockatrice is what you think about. People used the same names, because they copy pasted its ability." CreationDate="2018-02-26T23:14:02.930" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="9040" PostId="1338" Score="0" Text="I heard that some snakes can spit paralysing poison into the preys' / threads' eyes. So could medusas' and basilisks' petrifiing gaze originate from them?" CreationDate="2018-02-26T23:17:57.960" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="4225" PostId="1341" Score="0" Text="Part of the answer might be that many mules/horses are gelded in modern times, although I'm not sure if that is also true in ancient Greece. Also, I'm not sure if we can assume that all of the horses in Greek vases are male -- they might be female (and thus wouldn't have a penis)." CreationDate="2016-01-15T20:44:38.940" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4236" PostId="1344" Score="1" Text="Do give sources please" CreationDate="2016-01-17T13:51:44.520" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4239" PostId="1344" Score="4" Text="Should be noted that dragons are serpents, and not a separate &quot;species&quot;. Up until a couple hundred years ago, any large snakes would be called &quot;dragon&quot; in English, the mythical one just accumulating more fantastical traits." CreationDate="2016-01-17T22:14:01.917" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4242" PostId="1349" Score="6" Text="The problem with this list is context. All of the gods, and especially the major ones, had plenty that were sacred to them. The ancient Greeks lived in a very sacred world, and the distinction between the sacred and the secular was non-existent." CreationDate="2016-01-19T00:49:28.990" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4243" PostId="1349" Score="3" Text="Just look at Dionysus for comparison: http://www.theoi.com/Summary/Dionysos.html" CreationDate="2016-01-19T00:50:25.710" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4244" PostId="1354" Score="0" Text="Neat explanation, especially with the decision of Aesir :)   Would wait another day for anymore nice answers, before accepting!" CreationDate="2016-01-20T19:12:47.967" UserId="1076" />
  <row Id="4858" PostId="1357" Score="1" Text="FWIW, in the English oral tradition I have only ever heard &quot;three times a bridesmaid, never a bride&quot;, never twice." CreationDate="2016-06-02T20:48:31.883" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="4249" PostId="1362" Score="2" Text="can you provide a little context? I've never heard of these two characters. What is or are their myth(s)?" CreationDate="2016-01-24T13:32:54.927" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4251" PostId="1362" Score="2" Text="They're the Greek/Roman fates." CreationDate="2016-01-24T19:21:22.467" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4250" PostId="1363" Score="0" Text="as far as i understand, gods are mortal just as men (Moirai are controlling their life threads as well - only difference is life span, there will be &quot;an end of times&quot;). I can't find any info on mortality of Moirai themselves, if they are going to die at the end of times..." CreationDate="2016-01-24T14:11:27.107" UserId="1148" />
  <row Id="4252" PostId="1363" Score="0" Text="@Max do you have a source for your claim (that Gods aren't mortal)?" CreationDate="2016-01-24T19:44:51.260" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4255" PostId="1363" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet, you probably misspelt and meant &quot;the claim that gods are mortal&quot;. not at my hand now. that was some article on concept of fate in indoeuropean cultures (like greeks, slavs) but written in non-academic popular style - hence, this imprecision in data. look at my accepted answer." CreationDate="2016-01-25T07:08:25.100" UserId="1148" />
  <row Id="7182" PostId="1363" Score="0" Text="The Greek gods are not mortal like men.  They are not eternal, because they are created (i.e. to be eternal, you have to have always existed), but neither are they subject to death, as the Norse gods are." CreationDate="2017-03-07T22:18:54.833" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7184" PostId="1363" Score="0" Text="@bleh I think this valid analysis would be improved if you were more clear about the answer.  (i.e. there is no end of the universe story in Greek mythology, so the Fates will always be active.)" CreationDate="2017-03-07T22:22:38.533" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4254" PostId="1365" Score="1" Text="thanks for the quote that makes distinction between *eternal* vs *immortal*" CreationDate="2016-01-25T07:00:29.817" UserId="1148" />
  <row Id="7183" PostId="1365" Score="0" Text="Excellent breakdown of undying!" CreationDate="2017-03-07T22:20:07.950" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14226" PostId="1365" Score="1" Text="Worth mentioning: there are plenty of examples of Greek myths where one god would have LOVED to kill another god, for example Kronus eating his children or the Olympians overthrowing the Titans. The fact that they never actually do kill each other, and invariably are forced to imprison, exile, consume, or otherwise incapacitate each other, implies that killing a god is not an option even for other gods." CreationDate="2021-02-19T23:16:29.157" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="4260" PostId="1371" Score="1" Text="+1 for sources, and for  &quot;further research is needed&quot; :)" CreationDate="2016-01-25T22:31:56.347" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4262" PostId="1376" Score="7" Text="Have you asked your friends to elaborate? And perhaps provide you with sources for their claims? That would really help answer your question. Poseidon's main domain was the ocean, so it stands to reason that he was considered a very important deity - and perhaps the most important one - in cities with strong naval traditions (like, for example, Corinth). I'm afraid this is all I have to offer until we clarify the question a bit." CreationDate="2016-01-26T11:01:26.253" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4263" PostId="1376" Score="0" Text="Thank you. Being a bad students, they can only refer to the  &quot;lecturer said&quot;. Anyway, your opinion is more important, as I live in a small, poor and old country. I'll try to get that lecturer to explain me." CreationDate="2016-01-26T11:16:34.637" UserId="1154" />
  <row Id="4283" PostId="1378" Score="0" Text="This makes me think of https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-6-2/ but from the script it is neither clear (to me, at least) where the &quot;sons of good&quot; came from, nor if they have any relation with the *angels*, nor if their offspring has. Ans I joined this community just for the above question." CreationDate="2016-01-28T18:46:11.963" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="4276" PostId="1379" Score="0" Text="This is based on [a question](http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/58307/mythology/66445#66445) from the site's Area51 definition phase." CreationDate="2016-01-27T17:02:23.883" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4362" PostId="1379" Score="2" Text="In European folklore, the devil is depicted with a deformed foot, mostly in form of a goat, or wearing a hoof. There might be a more general archetype." CreationDate="2016-02-01T22:05:25.290" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="6794" PostId="1379" Score="0" Text="Isn't there a woman in the Ulster Cycle, fleet of foot, whose knee joints bend backwards like the hind legs of a horse or deer?  *(Completely different purpose, but I figured since we were talking about backwards appendages it was worth mentioning.)*" CreationDate="2016-12-30T16:44:13.790" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4376" PostId="1383" Score="2" Text="The *D'Aulaires' Book of Norse Myths* just states that they decided to be blood brothers, but doesn't give any specific story or context." CreationDate="2016-02-02T20:59:31.653" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="14534" PostId="1385" Score="0" Text="This is actually a very specific question. Unfortunately, there is not a word that specifically captures what you are describing: the loss of a motif/trope in an oral tradition from one culture to another. There are some broad terms for how stories change from culture to culture and they are very simple. Cross-culture. Cultural exchange. Oral Adaptation/Adoptions. You have come across something talked about A LOT but not really mastered with a coin of phrase. Maybe you should coin it." CreationDate="2021-03-29T04:15:00.093" UserId="7869" />
  <row Id="4288" PostId="1389" Score="4" Text="You used both &quot;sphinxes&quot; and &quot;Sphinx&quot; as plurals in this question. I thought you might be interested in knowing, another plural form of this word is &quot;sphinges&quot; (SFINN-jeez). But you will rarely have occasion to use it, as explained by the answer below" CreationDate="2016-01-29T17:12:12.657" UserId="806" />
  <row Id="4329" PostId="1390" Score="0" Text="I trust you realise that in your last quotation &quot;[the Sphinx]&quot; is added by the translator." CreationDate="2016-01-31T21:11:30.727" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4330" PostId="1390" Score="1" Text="@fdb yes that is the general usage of the square brackets in quotes" CreationDate="2016-01-31T21:14:24.960" UserId="430" />
  <row Id="4333" PostId="1390" Score="0" Text="So it is not really evidence for your thesis, is it?" CreationDate="2016-01-31T21:28:02.043" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4334" PostId="1390" Score="1" Text="@fdb it is in as much as all references including modern translations refer to the Sphinx in the singular. And technically in this case it's not a translation but clarification as to what is being spoken about as kêr is the Greek personification of death." CreationDate="2016-01-31T22:45:31.693" UserId="430" />
  <row Id="4335" PostId="1390" Score="0" Text="There is an argument for distinguishing between primary and secondary sources." CreationDate="2016-01-31T23:03:59.097" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4287" PostId="1391" Score="2" Text="Good find. Perhaps you could add a few examples of stories where Odin and Loki were allied?" CreationDate="2016-01-29T14:41:55.003" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4360" PostId="1391" Score="2" Text="In an admittedly rapid survey of sources, I was unable to find the examples Bellows mentions. However, Othin did ride Sleipnir, a horse that Loki bore (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleipnir), so there is at least some evidence for this kind of relationship. Bellows was educated in this area and was probably unlikely to state something like this without evidence, but I would like to see more direct evidence as well." CreationDate="2016-02-01T20:23:19.090" UserId="1058" />
  <row Id="4375" PostId="1391" Score="0" Text="Thank you for taking the time to look further into this. I've asked a follow up question, based on your answe here: [How often were Odin and Loki allied in enterprises?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/1412/57)." CreationDate="2016-02-02T12:02:06.333" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4311" PostId="1392" Score="2" Text="As for any Abrahamic religion, anything that *is* is created by the respective god, your answer does not add any information. Eve, for example, was not simply created &quot;from scratch&quot; but from a rib of Adam. Though your statement is true,  it is far from being an answer." CreationDate="2016-01-31T18:12:30.367" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="4318" PostId="1392" Score="0" Text="Adam was created by God. If something is created from another thing created, then you can definitely say that the 1st thing is created by the creator. But I will add to my answer." CreationDate="2016-01-31T19:13:56.453" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4319" PostId="1392" Score="1" Text="@_bleh obviously so, but this does not add any understanding to the first question." CreationDate="2016-01-31T19:17:14.427" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="4320" PostId="1392" Score="0" Text="I'm thinking.... lol" CreationDate="2016-01-31T19:17:40.127" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4321" PostId="1392" Score="1" Text="@_bleh &quot;I'm thinking.... lol&quot; :-) According to Quran, man was created from a clot of blood (translation disputable). My point is that the OP  is looking for more information than just &quot;everything is created by THE CREATOR&quot;." CreationDate="2016-01-31T19:27:54.610" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="4322" PostId="1392" Score="0" Text="Ik just a bit busy. You'll get your quality answer soon." CreationDate="2016-01-31T19:29:31.970" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4324" PostId="1392" Score="0" Text="@_bleh now hurries, quality weighs above quantity, and, in this case, above instancy ." CreationDate="2016-01-31T19:36:59.027" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="4326" PostId="1392" Score="0" Text="Maybe like, 6 hours. Write your own answer if you want to! or; edit my answer." CreationDate="2016-01-31T19:41:10.787" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4327" PostId="1392" Score="2" Text="@_bleh 6 hoers or 60 ... take your time; and if I was sure to have a perfect answer of my own, I would have posted it already instead of just nagging you. Still searching." CreationDate="2016-01-31T19:51:48.423" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="14089" PostId="1392" Score="0" Text="@_bleh it has been far more than 6 hours now waiting for your response. Downvoting." CreationDate="2021-01-02T18:14:58.307" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="4289" PostId="1393" Score="0" Text="I'm not convinced the insult is a reference to Sleipnir. It's the specificity of the insult that points to a separate story (that probably didn't survive). Also, bearing children is only part of the insult. It might very well be a reference to Sleipnir, but that doesn't explain Loki being underground, or being transformed to a cow milking maid." CreationDate="2016-01-30T09:53:42.523" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4300" PostId="1393" Score="0" Text="@Yannis It's definitely possible that it's a reference to a lost story, but I stand by the point that the others are either made up or are passing references that the author never intended to expand upon." CreationDate="2016-01-30T20:26:41.510" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4291" PostId="1395" Score="0" Text="This is based on [a question](http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/58307/mythology/67604#67604) from the site's Area51 definition phase." CreationDate="2016-01-30T10:47:48.157" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4336" PostId="1396" Score="2" Text="Since &quot;Helios&quot; actually means &quot;sun&quot; in Greek I do not see how you can claim that &quot;the Greeks didn't personify or anthropomorphize the sun&quot;. A very bad answer." CreationDate="2016-01-31T23:34:08.363" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4337" PostId="1396" Score="2" Text="@fdb If you are aware of Greek myths which actually cite Helios *as* the sun and not the sun's charioteer, by all means post an answer and cite them. I'm happy to be proven wrong if you have sources." CreationDate="2016-02-01T00:06:30.700" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4344" PostId="1396" Score="0" Text="Lots of sources here: http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=48179&amp;context=lsj&amp;action=hw-list-click" CreationDate="2016-02-01T09:56:19.057" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4346" PostId="1396" Score="0" Text="@fdb Forgive me, I don't read Greek — I have no idea what I'm looking at. If you could translate those and put them into context, make it an answer." CreationDate="2016-02-01T10:46:45.247" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4348" PostId="1396" Score="0" Text="My point is very simply that &quot;helios&quot; is the Greek word for &quot;sun&quot;. When used as a proper noun (&quot;Helios&quot;) it is by definition a personification." CreationDate="2016-02-01T11:40:49.330" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4351" PostId="1396" Score="0" Text="@fdb Sorry, we're talking past each other. The OP asked if the Greeks ever thought of the sun as a character/person/god/personality *itself*, the way they thought of the laurel tree as the person of Daphne, a river nymph. So far as I know, they thought of the sun as *the wheel of a chariot* driven by a god, originally named Helios; this task was later assigned to the god Apollo. Do any of the stories you link to describe Helios, himself, running or flying across the sky and glowing? That's what the OP is asking." CreationDate="2016-02-01T13:51:33.107" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4353" PostId="1396" Score="0" Text="Do you know the Aesopic fable of the North Wind (Boreas) and the Sun (Helios)?" CreationDate="2016-02-01T14:02:17.557" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4359" PostId="1396" Score="0" Text="@fdb I don't. Please feel free to post a short summary and a link to a source as an answer to the OP's question." CreationDate="2016-02-01T17:30:22.407" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4367" PostId="1396" Score="0" Text="Perhaps you could research this yourself? It belongs pretty much to &quot;common knowledge&quot;." CreationDate="2016-02-01T23:37:00.333" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4299" PostId="1398" Score="0" Text="Ok, and how about the story of Persephone? She stayed underground for six months, that's two seasons, not one." CreationDate="2016-01-30T20:23:29.807" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4302" PostId="1398" Score="0" Text="Also, the Horai weren't always three. For example, Hyginus names 9 of them, and Nonnus 4.  I feel you have a very good question about seasons in Greek myths hidden in there, but I'm not sure we'll be able to bring it to light unless you spend some time researching the Horai yourself." CreationDate="2016-01-30T20:42:23.180" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4303" PostId="1398" Score="0" Text="@Yannis Some earlier versions say she spent one third of the year underground; later writers say she spent a full of the year. From [Apollodorus](http://www.theoi.com/Khthonios/HaidesPersephone1.html): *But Persephone was obliged to spend a third of each year with Plouton, and the remainder of the year among the gods.* Good point about the number of the Horai, though." CreationDate="2016-01-30T20:46:25.637" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4304" PostId="1398" Score="0" Text="Ah, thanks for pointing that out @HDE226868." CreationDate="2016-01-30T20:50:11.877" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4779" PostId="1398" Score="1" Text="In general, there's no real need to always think of the year as having exactly 4 seasons anyway. Many cultures don't do it today, and in the past there have been many kinds of divisions. In many cases a &quot;wet&quot; and a &quot;dry&quot; season are more than enough." CreationDate="2016-05-04T14:24:46.943" UserId="119" />
  <row Id="4323" PostId="1402" Score="3" Text="This is in relation to a Egyptian Sphinx, as seen alongside the pyramids of Giza, and refers to a sphinx with a male head. This question specifically asked about the Greek Sphinx, which may have roots in Egypt is a different beast to its Egyptian counterpart." CreationDate="2016-01-31T19:34:02.340" UserId="430" />
  <row Id="4345" PostId="1402" Score="1" Text="@CearonO'Flynn. Yes, Herodotus is writing about Egypt in this context. But he does use the Greek word σφιγξ. From Herodotus' point of view a sphinx is a sphinx." CreationDate="2016-02-01T10:09:14.280" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4341" PostId="1404" Score="1" Text="This isn't exactly what I was looking for, but it's an interesting find nonetheless. Do you think it would be possible to quote the actual story, and not an encyclopedia?" CreationDate="2016-02-01T08:09:07.627" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4369" PostId="1404" Score="0" Text="@Yannis: Iliad 1.396 sqq." CreationDate="2016-02-02T00:15:02.403" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="8059" PostId="1406" Score="2" Text="See [my comments in chat](https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/39377218#39377218); that may be a possible lead. Unfortunately, I can neither read German nor find where that citation is in the literature." CreationDate="2017-08-12T00:30:07.520" UserId="4023" />
  <row Id="4371" PostId="1410" Score="0" Text="Are angels depicted with halos in Islam and Judaism?" CreationDate="2016-02-02T07:26:23.900" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4372" PostId="1410" Score="0" Text="@Yannis. http://images.is.ed.ac.uk/luna/servlet/detail/UoEsha~4~4~64024~102972:Chronolgy-of-Ancient-Nations,-f-141?sort=work_creator_details%2Cwork_shelfmark%2Cwork_source_page_no%2Cwork_title&amp;qvq=sort:work_creator_details%2Cwork_shelfmark%2Cwork_source_page_no%2Cwork_title;lc:UoEsha~4~4&amp;mi=16&amp;trs=693" CreationDate="2016-02-02T10:58:08.033" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4405" PostId="1411" Score="0" Text="Could be related to the sun disk that Egyptian gods Ra and Hathor wear above their heads, e.g. in the pictore in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hathor" CreationDate="2016-02-09T10:23:49.480" UserId="116" />
  <row Id="4384" PostId="1414" Score="0" Text="Very interesting. Thank you. Can you gleam any meaning from the symbolism? What do you think the myths say about Capricorn (the qualities, etc.)?" CreationDate="2016-02-04T06:59:26.340" UserId="1103" />
  <row Id="4386" PostId="1417" Score="2" Text="Can you narrow this down a bit to fairies from a specific culture?" CreationDate="2016-02-06T19:33:08.950" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4387" PostId="1417" Score="0" Text="well, if its not too much to ask, I'd like to see examples from few cultures" CreationDate="2016-02-06T21:49:30.383" UserId="1193" />
  <row Id="4388" PostId="1417" Score="0" Text="On account of the stories I've seen about changelings, (and they are biased as all stolen babies where turned back), no harm has done to the babies at all. (Looking for some citeable source.)" CreationDate="2016-02-07T22:38:16.470" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="10485" PostId="1417" Score="0" Text="Have you read Thomas Crofton Croker's Fairy Legends and Traditions of the South of Ireland? Lots about missing children in there." CreationDate="2018-04-27T23:28:54.407" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="4389" PostId="1420" Score="3" Text="Not really prepared to give a proper answer, but [Ganymede](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganymede_(mythology)) springs to mind." CreationDate="2016-02-07T23:10:28.107" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4390" PostId="1420" Score="0" Text="Why would you count Heracles, initially, not as a mortal?" CreationDate="2016-02-07T23:20:55.370" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="4391" PostId="1420" Score="0" Text="Because he was part god- his father was Zeus." CreationDate="2016-02-07T23:26:34.840" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4392" PostId="1420" Score="0" Text="Innocent(?) question: are all offspring of god(s) immortal? Or is it just an ambiguity of the term &quot;mortals&quot;, such as some of those being *immortal* from birth?" CreationDate="2016-02-07T23:38:53.923" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="4393" PostId="1420" Score="0" Text="Ambrosia (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ambrosia&amp;oldid=695712404) would give immortality to anyone." CreationDate="2016-02-07T23:44:23.707" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="4394" PostId="1420" Score="0" Text="Aside from *mortals*, as far as I have learned, Dionysos was the only &quot;half-bread&quot; to be raised to full (Olympic) god status." CreationDate="2016-02-07T23:48:12.710" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="4395" PostId="1420" Score="0" Text="@GyroGearloose Hercules was a god." CreationDate="2016-02-08T00:12:38.697" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4396" PostId="1420" Score="0" Text="Are you only looking for specifically Greek figures?" CreationDate="2016-02-08T00:18:11.627" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4397" PostId="1420" Score="0" Text="I doubt, but I have no sources readily at hand. I remember some story that he decidedly  helped in quenching a rebellion (by giants (??!!)) *because* he was *not* an Olympic god." CreationDate="2016-02-08T00:18:58.363" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="4398" PostId="1420" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Yes greek." CreationDate="2016-02-08T00:21:14.607" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4399" PostId="1420" Score="0" Text="@Gyro Gearloose then he got promoted." CreationDate="2016-02-08T00:21:17.697" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4400" PostId="1420" Score="0" Text="Finally, yes, Heracles was born demi-god, but additionally nursed by Hera, then, after some heroin deeds (some of which would not stand nowadays moral standards) battled aside of the Olympic gods against the rebellion of the Giants, necessarily *as a mortal* (as far as my understanding goes), because the Olympics were required to have some &quot;third party hero&quot;. Only afterwards he was promotioned to full Olympic god. It nags my that I can't dig the resources." CreationDate="2016-02-08T00:38:07.180" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="5974" PostId="1420" Score="0" Text="Gilgamesh ? (I'm sorry, greek is too easy :p)" CreationDate="2016-06-19T21:13:02.277" UserId="1624" />
  <row Id="4401" PostId="1422" Score="1" Text="Related: http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/34834/do-the-leaves-of-yggdrasil-the-world-tree-have-any-special-properties" CreationDate="2016-02-08T18:14:14.400" UserId="957" />
  <row Id="4572" PostId="1422" Score="0" Text="I receive many questions like this mostly from Dragon Quest players, a game in which the leaves of the World Tree revives a dead member of the party to full HP..." CreationDate="2016-03-17T14:59:12.337" UserId="1343" />
  <row Id="4406" PostId="1425" Score="1" Text="That quote actually seems relevant to http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/825/197 (where the answers already mention Hermes, but supported by other quotes)" CreationDate="2016-02-09T12:08:13.947" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="4675" PostId="1425" Score="0" Text="Two objections: First, the passage in Diodoros refers to an Egyptian myth, not a Greek myth. Second, the oldest forms of Greek numbers were formed by strokes, rather like the Roman numbers. The use of the letters of the alphabet for numbers came later." CreationDate="2016-04-07T17:16:23.153" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4684" PostId="1425" Score="0" Text="@fdb The Greeks did not see a real distinction between myths of Egyptian origin and of Greek origin. You might have noticed, for example, that he uses the name *Hermes* and not *Thoth*. Your second point seems more of a criticism for the ancients..." CreationDate="2016-04-09T23:30:42.130" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4409" PostId="1428" Score="1" Text="Why are you assuming the inspiration for these creatures comes from mythology?" CreationDate="2016-02-10T09:45:48.800" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4410" PostId="1428" Score="2" Text="Well, that looks more like a question than an assumption." CreationDate="2016-02-10T14:19:56.507" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4411" PostId="1428" Score="0" Text="It certainly looks like a question @C.M.Weimer. The fact that it was posted here, however, and not - for example - [SciFi.SE](http://scifi.stackexchange.com/) strongly implies that bleh assumes a mythological inspiration for the creatures. If that's not the case, what's stopping us from posting &quot;is there a myth that explains ...&quot; questions for, well, everything?" CreationDate="2016-02-10T14:38:47.020" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4412" PostId="1428" Score="0" Text="Should there be something, @Yannis? J. K. Rowling is known for using ancient myths in her work, the &quot;thestrals&quot; are not readily known, why wouldn't it be on topic here? I'd agree that in-universe stuff &quot;why did H.P. do X?&quot; should be off-limits, but I can't see a compelling reason to exclude a potentially mythological question from here. That said, maybe this discussion is better left to Meta?" CreationDate="2016-02-10T14:49:46.403" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4413" PostId="1428" Score="0" Text="If I strongly believed that this was off topic, I would have already closed it @C.M.Weimer. That said, I don't think it's reasonable to expect our crowd to be familiar with J. K. Rowling's work, or with her writing process. If she is indeed known for using ancient myths in her work, then that should be pointed out in the question. With examples, if possible. A little bit of effort from the asker could transform this to an excellent Mythology question." CreationDate="2016-02-10T14:54:07.803" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4415" PostId="1428" Score="4" Text="In my opinion, they've done the work they need to.  The quote provides what they're looking for, no need to be familiar with Rowling's work, and giving examples of other instances of mythological creatures in her writing definitely sounds like irrelevant noise, to me.  You could strip out references to Harry Potter and such and still have an answerable question here:  &quot;Is there a mythological creature called a thestral which resembles a skeletal/reptilian horse?&quot;" CreationDate="2016-02-10T17:09:57.577" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4416" PostId="1428" Score="1" Text="I personally don't like these types of questions (I don't think they're very interesting or likely to lead to a better understanding of &quot;mythology&quot;). At the same time, I think Yannis' proposed criteria (this question needs to list other references to mythology in Harry Potter to establish that JKR uses mythology in her writings) is incredibly useless, and does not improve the question one bit." CreationDate="2016-02-10T17:16:22.230" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4422" PostId="1436" Score="6" Text="Those are novels, though. She's just making that stuff up." CreationDate="2016-02-13T03:43:34.923" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4423" PostId="1436" Score="0" Text="she is actually pondering the same question that OP posted and that is her take on it.  same as to what the actual minotaur might have been etc." CreationDate="2016-02-13T07:17:12.257" UserId="1215" />
  <row Id="4424" PostId="1436" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer: So Plutarch and Hesiod are factual? What is important is whether a retelling is convincing and in the true spirit, not the date of it." CreationDate="2016-02-13T11:07:53.453" UserId="131" />
  <row Id="4426" PostId="1436" Score="2" Text="@TomBarker - Theseus and Ariadne were not real people. There was no minotaur to wonder what it might have actually been. I've no problem with speculation, but at that part it belongs in the Science Fiction and Fantasy SE." CreationDate="2016-02-13T16:08:40.743" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4427" PostId="1436" Score="8" Text="@TimLymington No, what's important is whether the retelling is authentic to the ancient Greeks. If Herodotus relates a tale of Theseus, he is giving an account of the beliefs of his contemporaries. Mary Renault is instead giving a modern fictional account of the myths. It's interesting, but it's hardly what OP was asking for." CreationDate="2016-02-13T16:08:43.887" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4428" PostId="1437" Score="6" Text="Kronos was chopped into pieces and scattered across Tartarus, but it's specifically noted that said trip through the celestial Cuisinart did not kill him. (Some stories later have it that Kronos was released from Tartarus and set to rule over the Isle of the Blessed.) If being julienned isn't enough to kill an immortal, mere decapitation probably isn't either. Not to mention all the divine cannibalism that went on." CreationDate="2016-02-14T23:53:31.397" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4429" PostId="1437" Score="0" Text="Cuisinart? You mean Chef Ramsey in Hell's Kitchen!" CreationDate="2016-02-15T01:49:33.793" UserId="98" />
  <row Id="4434" PostId="1437" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Done. I only posted it as a comment because I couldn't locate any sources for Zeus's slice-and-dice. The story is repeated in many places and on many wikis, but I can't put my finger on the original." CreationDate="2016-02-15T19:19:02.253" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4440" PostId="1437" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer The stories I've seen *don't* say that Zeus decapitated Kronos. They say that Zeus chopped him up into pieces and scattered the pieces. (How the pieces were then knit back into one being isn't mentioned.) The problem is that I've seen many references to this sequence, but not &quot;Hesiod says in *Theogony*...&quot;" CreationDate="2016-02-16T01:56:30.177" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4565" PostId="1437" Score="0" Text="Why is this primarily opinion based?" CreationDate="2016-03-15T18:37:15.127" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="5969" PostId="1437" Score="0" Text="The primary source that I've encountered for the idea that Kronos was chopped to pieces is Rick Riordan's _Percy Jackson &amp; the Olympians_ book series. There is, however, no ancient mythographer that says anything like this. Kronos was not dismembered in any way at any point in the original myths. He was simply, like most of his brothers and a few of his nephews, cast into Tartaros after he lost the Titans' War." CreationDate="2016-06-19T18:28:27.017" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="5970" PostId="1437" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra Rick Riordan is not a primary source..... srry" CreationDate="2016-06-19T19:04:27.767" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="5971" PostId="1437" Score="0" Text="Sorry, I meant to say &quot;the main source.&quot; My point is that this story about Kronos' dismemberment by his own children is an idea from modern fiction rather than ancient mythology." CreationDate="2016-06-19T19:10:47.857" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="5972" PostId="1437" Score="0" Text="Yeah- but say like story, not primary source. Primary source is more of stuff specifically from Plato, or anyone who clearly knew what they were writing." CreationDate="2016-06-19T19:12:41.563" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7399" PostId="1437" Score="0" Text="@bleh this seems to have produced some very solid answers.  May not be a direct reference, but clearly several parallels upon which a case may be built." CreationDate="2017-03-30T21:52:40.170" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7406" PostId="1437" Score="0" Text="@Bleh see my note on [trepanning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanning#Pre-modern_Europe) under the accepted answer.  The type of brain surgery describe in Athena's birth would not have been analogous to a fatal wound." CreationDate="2017-03-31T20:23:53.853" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4431" PostId="1439" Score="0" Text="Interesting question. I'm a little bit confused: Dante has nothing to do with Greek mythology (he was writing about Christianity in the middle ages), and Hell isn't a concept from Greek mythology. But this question is tagged greek (i.e. Greek mythology), and asks about &quot;Rhadamanthus, Aeacus and Minos&quot;, who as far as I can tell have nothing to do with Christianity. Could you clarify whether you're asking about Greek mythology or about Christianity during the Middle Ages?" CreationDate="2016-02-15T16:39:02.663" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4432" PostId="1439" Score="0" Text="Dante's relevant not because he was a source of Greek mythology, but rather he borrowed much of Greek mythology in the creation of his inferno. They don't come from Dante, but he used them. As far as there not being a hell, that's not *quite* accurate, but it's just different, and of course different Greeks thought about the afterlife differently depending on where and when." CreationDate="2016-02-15T18:13:21.687" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4436" PostId="1439" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer didn't know about Dante, thanks. I knew about hell existing/not existing in Greek mythology, I just worded it badly (but thanks for clarifying it)." CreationDate="2016-02-15T21:05:50.403" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4443" PostId="1439" Score="0" Text="Sorry if the tags were misleading, I was not sure on how tu put this, because these figures appear in different mythologies, and I knew Dante was referring greek divinities!" CreationDate="2016-02-16T07:32:59.650" UserId="1163" />
  <row Id="4437" PostId="1440" Score="0" Text="Minos has to be biased against Daedalus, right?" CreationDate="2016-02-15T21:10:44.543" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4438" PostId="1442" Score="0" Text="Well, titans are a lot more powerful than Olympians. I made an edit to see if there is a credible source on actual gods and not Titans. (sorry for misunderstanding)" CreationDate="2016-02-15T21:12:47.503" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4439" PostId="1442" Score="1" Text="@bleh &quot;Well, titans are a lot more powerful than Olympians&quot; [citation-needed]" CreationDate="2016-02-15T21:45:21.243" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="5967" PostId="1442" Score="1" Text="Love the handle &quot;Lauren Ipsum,&quot; by the way :-) There simply is no instance in the original mythology of Kronos ever having chopped up (much less even suffered an injury during the 9-year-long Titans' War) by anyone; nor does any such thing ever happen to any other Titan. (The closest example of this is the Titaness Aura ripping apart and devouring one of the twin boys whom she bears to the god Dionysus but the baby's paternity technically makes him a non-Titan.)" CreationDate="2016-06-19T18:16:49.737" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="5968" PostId="1442" Score="1" Text="As for the divine cannibalism, there is a fair bit of that on the parts of both Kronos and Zeus [the latter of whom swallows his own wife Metis], but you'll notice that those who are devoured by these two characters are engorged whole, seemingly intact and are never consumed, perhaps because it's impossible to destroy them. The story of Zeus swallowing &quot;Wisdom&quot; is supposed to be an explanation for how he becomes so wise, and the idea moreover is that Metis is the one who, while stuck inside Zeus, clothes Athena with the armour and furnishes her with the weaponry with which she is born." CreationDate="2016-06-19T18:23:47.077" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7394" PostId="1442" Score="1" Text="Wonderful.  Let's not forget that Pelops, a mortal, was re-assembled after being chopped up and served for dinner by Tantalus, and that Dionysus was also torn apart by Titans and reborn." CreationDate="2017-03-30T20:18:43.593" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4446" PostId="1447" Score="0" Text="This answer is incredibly confusing to read. Could you only use quotes if you're quoting from a source, and can you cite the sources you reference? Right now you're use of quotes is incredibly confusing: for example, I'm not sure why you put *jealous god* in quotes; are you quoting from a source, indicating skepticism of the idea of a jealous god, or what? Another example: why do you put the phrase *golden calf* in quotes?" CreationDate="2016-02-17T05:43:47.933" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4447" PostId="1447" Score="0" Text="The idea of people &quot;recycling&quot; the features of previous religions into new ones is a good start for this answer. But I wish you had cited someone other than T.C. Lethbridge: he's a pseudo-scientist. Also, you outline an interesting theory, but you need to support this theory with facts: can you demonstrate that Iris and Hermes originated from competing regions/different time periods?" CreationDate="2016-02-17T05:46:25.803" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4448" PostId="1447" Score="0" Text="Dear Ham: It was said 45 yrs ago, at Eton, research was proceeding apace. After so long, I'd consider it &quot;proven.&quot; Perhaps this didn't cross the Atlantic? Be careful also of using &quot;pseudo-scientist:&quot; A top man in the same Sci. field at Be'er Shiva University has often said such of Carl Sagan. I merely mentioned Dr. TCL because his research closely paralleled the Greco-Roman example--- and because his unvarnished zeal amuses me. It's delightful that &quot;Mary's Chapel&quot; was &quot;Maaev's Chapel&quot; and &quot;St. George's Church.&quot; was where &quot;Herne the Hunter&quot; was worshiped! Bon chance, mon ami!" CreationDate="2016-02-17T08:49:11.530" UserId="871" />
  <row Id="4479" PostId="1447" Score="0" Text="*It was said 45 yrs ago, at Eton, research was proceeding apace* that's not how research works. If I say that the sky is green thirty years ago, and start conducting research into proving that the sky is green, the fact that it's been 30 years since I started researching doesn't make me right." CreationDate="2016-03-01T02:02:09.680" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4449" PostId="1448" Score="1" Text="Can you provide some context or explanation about the Asherah tree, for those of us unfamiliar with it?" CreationDate="2016-02-17T20:40:36.497" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4450" PostId="1448" Score="4" Text="There is no correlation. Decoration of the yule tree with lights is a middle European thing that is not even that ancient. Any Asherah worship was long dead before it became popular." CreationDate="2016-02-17T21:02:55.240" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4451" PostId="1448" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Turn that into an answer?" CreationDate="2016-02-18T00:25:16.993" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4452" PostId="1450" Score="3" Text="Who is this Iseous?" CreationDate="2016-02-18T23:16:31.387" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4453" PostId="1450" Score="2" Text="Currently, this question is really two questions: *what is the origin of the name Jesus*, and *what is the relationship with Zeus and Iseous*. Could you please ask two separate questions instead of combining two questions into one?" CreationDate="2016-02-18T23:33:32.273" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4455" PostId="1450" Score="1" Text="Well, they are potentially related questions, if the origin of &quot;Jesus&quot; lies in Zeus/&quot;Iseous&quot;, though he doesn't." CreationDate="2016-02-19T02:23:42.783" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6265" PostId="1450" Score="1" Text="@david tik I'm not going to post a formal answer b/c this is a clearly a contentious subject and I'm likely to be down-voted, but there are some who do draw a connection between Zeus and Jesus, both from the perspective of their stories and names. There seems to be a similar connection between the Eucharist and Dionysis/Persephone. (i.e. Dionysus dies and is resurrected in &quot;spirit&quot;, literally wine. Persephone, aka Kore, represents grain and the summer winter cycle of death and rebirth.) Many Christians are uncomfortable with this parallel for obvious reasons." CreationDate="2016-09-01T20:09:29.403" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9147" PostId="1450" Score="1" Text="Deus and Zeus are etymologically related. That is for sure." CreationDate="2018-03-13T23:21:40.720" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="4454" PostId="1451" Score="3" Text="More pointedly, there is no Iseous. There is no relationship between Zeus and Jesus (the Roman spelling of which is Iesus) and Ιησούς (Iesous)." CreationDate="2016-02-19T02:11:39.900" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4456" PostId="1451" Score="0" Text="I'll leave it for you to edit that." CreationDate="2016-02-19T02:25:39.263" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4457" PostId="1452" Score="0" Text="Definitely the better answer. Why is mine upvoted?" CreationDate="2016-02-19T02:54:14.730" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4458" PostId="1452" Score="0" Text="@bleh your answer answers most of the OP's questions (it even explains the connection between Iseous and Jesus), and doesn't seem to get anything important wrong. It's a pretty good answer. So I gave it a +1, even if it doesn't go into as much detail as C. M. Weimer's answer." CreationDate="2016-02-19T04:00:14.540" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6263" PostId="1452" Score="0" Text="@C. M. Weimer  It's been a little while since I've read any Ancient Greek, but I seem to recall Ζεύς in the nominative form, and being taught that there was a relationship between the two names *(although I'm comfortable with the idea of the connection being &quot;poetic&quot; speculation.)*" CreationDate="2016-09-01T19:22:43.387" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6357" PostId="1452" Score="0" Text="@cybermike There's no connection, no. The root of Ζεύς is either Ζην- or Δι-." CreationDate="2016-09-20T07:59:00.383" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6380" PostId="1452" Score="0" Text="@C.M. Weimer I'm a little uncomfortable with absolute certainty in disciplines that involve profound degreed of incomplete information." CreationDate="2016-09-26T19:33:00.457" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6384" PostId="1452" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer There are exact sciences such as orbital mechanics.  Linguistics, philology, etymology, etc., particularly in an historical context, do not possess the same degree of certainty." CreationDate="2016-09-26T20:32:42.227" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4462" PostId="1454" Score="3" Text="The Tibetan unicorn myth was inspired by its native [`chiru`](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_antelope), whose horns appears to have been traded. The Tibetans themselves knew chirus weren't unicorns, of course. However, in the bordering region of China an ancient bestiary called the *Classic of Mountains and Seas* mentions a creature named `huān shū` which was explicitly described as &quot;shaped like a horse, has one horn&quot;." CreationDate="2016-02-21T08:08:09.690" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4465" PostId="1454" Score="0" Text="Curious, how did the chiru inspire legends of a unicorn when it has two easily distinguished horns?" CreationDate="2016-02-21T18:06:38.980" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4468" PostId="1454" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Perhaps the horns weren't sold in pairs." CreationDate="2016-02-21T21:15:42.370" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4469" PostId="1454" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks." CreationDate="2016-02-21T21:29:32.623" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14517" PostId="1454" Score="0" Text="The [Classic of Mountains and Seas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_of_Mountains_and_Seas) is an ancient Chinese bestiary, which might be a good resource.  I seem to recall it includes some unicorn analogues." CreationDate="2021-07-10T00:39:14.263" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4464" PostId="1455" Score="2" Text="The answer to this question really depends on who you ask. For example, [Mormons believe that Eden was located in America](http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Garden_of_Eden_in_Missouri). Other Christians who I've talked to believe that Eden was located near the Tigris and Euphrates. Still others believe that the garden of Eden doesn't have a location, at least one that corresponds to a current day map. Until you narrow this question down (possibly by giving a clear definition of what you mean by &quot;folklore, legend, or myth&quot;), this question isn't going to be answerable." CreationDate="2016-02-21T17:39:03.947" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4466" PostId="1455" Score="3" Text="Considering he used the tag &quot;bible&quot;, I assume he means the Biblical location rather than the location according to Mormons or even modern Christians. The triadic &quot;folklore, legend or myth&quot; does seem a bit imprecise, but I think that's an accident of language choice and not intent." CreationDate="2016-02-21T19:03:27.180" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4467" PostId="1455" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer You are on the right track!" CreationDate="2016-02-21T19:56:04.070" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="4471" PostId="1458" Score="4" Text="Hi Justin. No doubt you're using Hesiod's cosmogony, but you should cite your sources as best as you can. Some minor notes: aether in ancient Greece is most certainly not &quot;ozone&quot; — they hadn't discovered that yet! — and chaos is less pre-universe existence and more &quot;chasm&quot; (which is etymologically related!) or &quot;gap&quot;, perhaps to indicate, as some commentators think, the gap between Ge and Ouranos after Kronos' sickle, though Hesiod's text doesn't quite allow for that." CreationDate="2016-02-22T03:38:03.857" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7518" PostId="1458" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Good note on many levels. (For Aether I might have put &quot;ether&quot; or even &quot;air&quot;;)  In terms of chaos, I was reading somewhere recently  about Chaos being &quot;full&quot; as opposed to empty, but presented in a way that accounts for the etymological connection with chasm.  (if only I could remember where I was reading it!)" CreationDate="2017-04-20T18:20:09.320" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4473" PostId="1460" Score="2" Text="There seem to be a number of theories about where Ogygia was, according to this [blog post](http://rlebling.blogspot.ca/2012/03/where-was-ogygia-isle-of-calypso.html): Gozo, or the Middle of the Atlantic, or indeed five days' sailing from Britian." CreationDate="2016-02-24T00:03:46.067" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="4477" PostId="1467" Score="3" Text="Ovid probably made up this version, unless there is some late story lost." CreationDate="2016-02-27T16:00:13.857" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4485" PostId="1470" Score="0" Text="Are those two cited sources from a book (anyone) can find? A library?" CreationDate="2016-03-02T10:20:57.867" UserId="1095" />
  <row Id="4489" PostId="1470" Score="0" Text="@Sidhartha Apollodorus's *Bibliotheca* can be read [here](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Apollod.+1.1.1), while the hymns of Callimachus can be found [here](http://www.theoi.com/Text/CallimachusHymns1.html)." CreationDate="2016-03-02T21:18:53.133" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="5958" PostId="1470" Score="0" Text="In the Roman version, the mother was named  Latona. She turned the &quot;rustics &quot; into frogs because they prevented her from drinking from a pool                        '" CreationDate="2016-06-18T21:54:59.610" UserId="2690" />
  <row Id="4480" PostId="1472" Score="1" Text="Can you show what research you have done?" CreationDate="2016-03-01T22:04:13.173" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4481" PostId="1472" Score="0" Text="Wont human-fairy offspring produce some sort of mixed breed?" CreationDate="2016-03-01T22:18:38.543" UserId="1193" />
  <row Id="4482" PostId="1472" Score="0" Text="No I can't show what research I have done because this is based on some books I have read. It may or may not be right. Also fairy world is part of mythical world." CreationDate="2016-03-02T05:46:08.727" UserId="1274" />
  <row Id="4483" PostId="1472" Score="0" Text="Yasskier, they will. One of book I have read quotes that the human-mixed breed is more powerful than fairy. Another  describes that  fairy offspring  exchanged were living with humans in safety while the human offspring in fairy community as second class citizens with no voice in governing matters." CreationDate="2016-03-02T05:48:38.310" UserId="1274" />
  <row Id="4731" PostId="1472" Score="1" Text="Which books did you get this information from? That would be your research. Once you tell us what your sources were, then the rest of us can evaluate the information." CreationDate="2016-04-25T23:36:38.550" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="4484" PostId="1473" Score="1" Text="&quot;As the library being our main source for Heracles...&quot; [citation-needed]" CreationDate="2016-03-02T10:12:29.793" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4486" PostId="1474" Score="2" Text="Hi Brian. I've taken an initial look at this question. I think you're right when you say that most of the sources that mention Shad-u-kâm are copying Keightley. You are also right to be skeptical of Keightley: he was writing when the field of folklore was just getting started, which means that accuracy wasn't a really big concern of his. Looking at his writings, my initial impression is that he was motivated by a desire to project Christian concepts onto Persian mythology (although a lot of parallels do exist between the two, Keightley seems to have gone above and beyond in this)." CreationDate="2016-03-02T17:00:03.933" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4487" PostId="1474" Score="1" Text="You're on the right track when you mention the similarities between Caherman and Nariman: remember, translation techniques have improved vastly since Keightley was alive. I could be wrong, but my initial impression is that the best way to answer this question would be to try to search for parallels between Shad-u-kâm and some other concept in persian literature. However, keep in mind that it's possible that Keightley made this story up: at the time he was writing it was really common for researchers to pass off stories they wrote as genuine literature." CreationDate="2016-03-02T17:06:36.650" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4488" PostId="1475" Score="2" Text="Some nervous Greeks were covering all their bases?" CreationDate="2016-03-02T18:26:00.353" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4490" PostId="1475" Score="0" Text="I don't have any sources, but straight off the bat I can tell you that it has to do with the tides. That is basically the only connection between the moon and water." CreationDate="2016-03-02T22:06:02.953" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4495" PostId="1475" Score="0" Text="But there are no perceptible tides in the eastern Mediterranean." CreationDate="2016-03-03T18:46:16.627" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="4496" PostId="1475" Score="1" Text="A different hypothesis:  a poorer Greek polis might dedicate a temple to both its patron deity and to a second god (unrelated in 'myth and theme').  Smaller communities obviously didn't have the resources to build separate temples for all the pantheon." CreationDate="2016-03-03T18:53:28.597" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="4493" PostId="1476" Score="7" Text="This might just be a personal preference of mine. But I don't really understand why people keep asking questions along the lines of why/how did [fictional character x] do [action y]. It makes sense to ask why real life uncle bob became a maiden goddess. Real life uncle bob has free will. But in the case of a goddess like Hestia, I don't think it makes sense to treat her being a maiden goddess as a decision. I think a better question would be to ask *why did the Greeks portray Hestia as a maiden*. Hestia (and other mythological characters) don't have free will, their authors, however, do." CreationDate="2016-03-03T04:40:57.163" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4499" PostId="1476" Score="0" Text="Ok, Il take out the why." CreationDate="2016-03-03T23:34:42.013" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4500" PostId="1476" Score="1" Text="replacing why with when doesn't really address my comment." CreationDate="2016-03-04T03:37:51.380" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4502" PostId="1476" Score="0" Text="I think Athena and Artemis chose to be maidens when they were born because as goddesses who were independent and strong women they couldn't have a man who ruled them as a husband would." CreationDate="2016-03-06T21:40:56.550" UserId="1294" />
  <row Id="4543" PostId="1476" Score="1" Text="@Hamlet The authors of the myths might have given these goddesses a reason to remain virgins. Asking for this fictional reason seems quite meaningful to me." CreationDate="2016-03-14T17:48:35.290" UserDisplayName="user1324" />
  <row Id="4577" PostId="1476" Score="0" Text="I don't think this is a bad question, but you have to remember that these are just myths, they did not choose to remain virgins, the writers did, whoever that is. It probably stood for a symbol of sorts, power for women, don't go having sex with every guy you meet, that sort of stuff." CreationDate="2016-03-17T21:24:21.750" UserId="1347" />
  <row Id="4520" PostId="1478" Score="1" Text="In terms of the symbol of Eden being at the &quot;center&quot;: this kind of imagery is comparable to the symbolism of quatra-partitioning in Mesoamerica, the saying &quot;all roads lead to Rome,&quot; the four cardinal directions, etc. etc. (You probably already know this -- I'm just mentioning this for other readers)." CreationDate="2016-03-09T22:06:46.417" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4508" PostId="1484" Score="2" Text="From the Odyssey itself there's no real reason to think she wasn't with Menelaus when he was blown off course to Egypt etc. Circumstantial, but Book IV says Helen was given some herbs by Polydamna, an Egyptian. Herodotus thinks Helen was in Egypt for the whole war, and Menelaus went there after the Sack of Troy to bring her back to Sparta." CreationDate="2016-03-08T07:27:07.390" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4515" PostId="1484" Score="0" Text="Good point about the Egyptian drugs -- I hadn't thought of that. Still if Homer intends us to imagine Helen in Egypt with Menelaos it's a little odd that M. doesn't mention her at all when telling the story, though he does mention his men." CreationDate="2016-03-09T00:28:21.073" UserId="1296" />
  <row Id="4507" PostId="1485" Score="5" Text="I'm not quite sure what you're looking for. They both depict Zeus and Europa. Are you perhaps referring to the three women in the painting?" CreationDate="2016-03-08T00:51:11.337" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4510" PostId="1487" Score="1" Text="Maybe narrow it down some?  As it stands, the obvious answer is a ghost.  Almost every culture has some kind of restless dead." CreationDate="2016-03-08T21:55:40.187" UserId="1301" />
  <row Id="4516" PostId="1487" Score="0" Text="Kind of agree to narrow it down, maybe by referencing the most popular myth systems. Otherwise, it's kind of hard to answer if Japanese or Asian myths are included (which the answer is possibly, no)." CreationDate="2016-03-09T02:33:56.027" UserId="771" />
  <row Id="4511" PostId="1488" Score="1" Text="This isn't really a good place for story recommendations. Maybe try using the chat?." CreationDate="2016-03-08T22:58:00.460" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4513" PostId="1488" Score="0" Text="I voted to close this, however, I think with some tweaking it could work. I'll try giving it a thorough edit later and hopefully making this fit the StackExchange format." CreationDate="2016-03-08T23:32:49.550" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4517" PostId="1488" Score="0" Text="I'm just looking for more myths to learn more about how the Japanese tied them into their religion..? Its like asking for Greek myths to learn more about the Olympians. People can list of lots of Greek gods and their stories... I'm asking the same of Japanese gods....but I guess if someone feels like they need to change the question.. be my guest." CreationDate="2016-03-09T04:47:16.933" UserId="1283" />
  <row Id="4518" PostId="1488" Score="3" Text="@Hush564 The problem is that it is too broad and too based on personal opinions. An example of the sort of questions we usually want here is something like, *&quot;Does Japan have a creation myth and if so what is it?&quot;* Or perhaps, *&quot;Are there any sort of chief pantheon, a la the Olympians, in Japanese mythology? Who do they consist of?&quot;*. You could you list some deities and ask how they are related, too; but asking for a family tree of the entirety of Shinto gods is a bit daunting." CreationDate="2016-03-09T10:12:02.343" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4533" PostId="1488" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore I know of the creation story. I want the lesser known stories.&#xA;Even if I put in &quot;Are there any sort of chief pantheon, a la the Olympians, in Japanese mythology? Who do they consist of?&quot; THAT is almost the same exact thing that I am asking for. A list of gods that people can pull from the top of their heads. I'm not asking for hours of research. Just interesting stories that I can go look up. Directing me to better sites a wiki page." CreationDate="2016-03-11T20:52:43.657" UserId="1283" />
  <row Id="4535" PostId="1488" Score="0" Text="It's a good start. Voting to reopen." CreationDate="2016-03-12T02:40:29.320" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4536" PostId="1488" Score="0" Text="@Hush564 You should also put that in the title, so that it matches the body of the question. I've edited and reopened for you this time but just keep that in mind if you ask more questions, thanks." CreationDate="2016-03-12T05:14:07.673" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="6285" PostId="1488" Score="0" Text="There isn't really a concrete list. I tend to use this site for any research or questions I have: http://eos.kokugakuin.ac.jp/modules/xwords/category.php?categoryID=4&amp;start=0" CreationDate="2016-09-06T16:49:39.143" UserId="2963" />
  <row Id="6286" PostId="1488" Score="0" Text="@Pleiades oh my that is a really good link! Thank you!" CreationDate="2016-09-06T18:02:52.507" UserId="1283" />
  <row Id="6287" PostId="1488" Score="0" Text="@Hush564: It's one of my favorites for a reason. It's incredibly useful, albeit a tad unorganized. I think it'll serve you well though." CreationDate="2016-09-06T18:32:16.620" UserId="2963" />
  <row Id="6288" PostId="1488" Score="0" Text="@Pleiades yeah it seems a bit disheveled. But I hope to learn some new things :) it seems like there isn't that much information about this topic like in other areas of mythos/religion." CreationDate="2016-09-06T18:36:09.290" UserId="1283" />
  <row Id="6289" PostId="1488" Score="0" Text="Well, Shintoism isn't exactly a very defined religion, and there are only really three primary texts we can pull information from. I'm attempting to learn how to read Japanese calligraphy since I have a solid enough grasp on kobun, but I still don't think there's too much I'll uncover that others haven't. That site's going to be your best bet, as far as English resources go." CreationDate="2016-09-06T18:58:21.080" UserId="2963" />
  <row Id="6291" PostId="1488" Score="0" Text="@Pleiades yeah, the way the Japanese treat religion as opposed to the West is interesting. It's very fluid with the way they will mix Shinto with Buddhism and even Christianity. :)" CreationDate="2016-09-06T20:06:25.840" UserId="1283" />
  <row Id="12135" PostId="1489" Score="0" Text="The specifics of any given creature or motif may be distinct, but I'm not sure there are all that many fundamental stories or creatures, if one takes a reductionist view.  For instance, talking animals appear very widely across cultures.  Most stories involve a hero and a nemesis.  Most mythological stories involve supernatural intervention.  (A referent may be how modern cinema can generally be broken down into clear categories.  Comedies typically end in romantic union, tragedies typically end with death.)" CreationDate="2019-12-20T19:22:33.403" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4514" PostId="1490" Score="0" Text="Good answer. Just a quick follow up that you might want to clarify:  are the women standing next to Europa in the picture here friends or her handmaidens?" CreationDate="2016-03-09T00:01:55.023" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4521" PostId="1490" Score="0" Text="Dunno. Maybe ask a question on that?" CreationDate="2016-03-09T23:49:41.103" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4524" PostId="1493" Score="0" Text="Elves and the shoemaker?" CreationDate="2016-03-10T22:06:16.807" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4529" PostId="1493" Score="1" Text="Four points. (1) The Grimm brothers fabricated or otherwise modified several of their stories: this question seems to be assuming that the Grimms are accurate accounts of German folklore. (2) Your definition of myth is different from the definition used by folklorists. This makes the question harder to answer: a folklorist may have gone through the Grimm stories to see if they are myths, but because your definition is different from their definition you won't be able to use their work." CreationDate="2016-03-10T23:58:15.857" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4530" PostId="1493" Score="1" Text="(3) this question is going to take a lot of work to answer. Someone might be willing to go through all of the Grimms stories and see if they are &quot;myths&quot;, but this question would have a higher likelihood of being answered if you simplified it somehow. (4) you're argument about Snow White isn't a very good one: just because Germans believe in dwarfs doesn't mean that they believe in dwarfs as portrayed in Snow White." CreationDate="2016-03-10T23:59:17.077" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4544" PostId="1493" Score="0" Text="For clarity, this is the [defintion of myth](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/myth) I am using.  If the definition used by folklorist/mythologists is significantly different from that of Merriam Webster, please provide a link to it." CreationDate="2016-03-14T18:06:31.900" UserId="1301" />
  <row Id="4547" PostId="1493" Score="0" Text="@user Which of those three definitions are you using? And what would make you believe that no hedgehogs exist in &quot;German myth&quot;? These should be grouped with my other questions for you." CreationDate="2016-03-14T18:57:17.650" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4551" PostId="1493" Score="0" Text="@user https://taxicrash.github.io/2015/01/04/Defining-Myth-Folklore-Legend/. If you have further questions my blog post provides a list of sources at the bottom." CreationDate="2016-03-15T02:13:33.300" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4552" PostId="1493" Score="0" Text="@user my advice would be to narrow this question down to focus on a specific story: right now it's really hard to answer, especially since you're using definitions of myth different from that of folklorists." CreationDate="2016-03-15T02:14:45.647" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4534" PostId="1497" Score="0" Text="Someone please add a citation for the &quot;Apollod.&quot;" CreationDate="2016-03-11T22:37:49.263" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4650" PostId="1497" Score="0" Text="Apollod. i. 7. §1 is this [paragraph](http://www.theoi.com/Text/Apollodorus1.html#7) of Apollodorus' &quot;Library&quot;, stating that Prometheus created men out of earth and water." CreationDate="2016-03-31T06:45:34.800" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="15795" PostId="1497" Score="0" Text="Yes she did! Prometheus went to Athena for her to breath her wit and her love of art into them, because he did not want his god like figures to be like animals. I am not sure if she also gave them life, or if Prometeus did that, but I atleast was able to explain to you why he went to seek for her, before he presented the present to Zeus." CreationDate="2022-01-05T18:28:33.300" UserId="8884" />
  <row Id="4537" PostId="1499" Score="0" Text="Sky, not space." CreationDate="2016-03-13T22:26:08.387" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4538" PostId="1499" Score="5" Text="Given that the ancients probably wouldn't have had the concept of 'outer space' , the night sky  (in which the stars were fixed) is probably the closest analog." CreationDate="2016-03-13T22:35:46.810" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="6955" PostId="1499" Score="1" Text="@Spencer I agree strongly.  Ouranos was almost certainly conceived in some sense as the &quot;starry firmament&quot; which is indeed analogous to the popular usage of &quot;the cosmos&quot; and &quot;outer space&quot;." CreationDate="2017-01-18T01:22:31.777" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4556" PostId="1501" Score="0" Text="Do you mean generally, like &quot;Leprechauns in Ireland, Kobolds in Germany,&quot; or locally, like &quot;sprites in the Midlands, brownies in London&quot;?" CreationDate="2016-03-15T09:51:42.633" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4566" PostId="1501" Score="0" Text="Well, hello @LaurenIpsum! Nice to see you here :-) As I understand it, some folklorists categorize fairies into different types. E.g. K. M. Briggs, in her analysis of 16th century English sources, differentiates fairies into four types: 1) trooping fairies, 2) hobgoblins, 3) nature fairies, 4) giants. Yeats differentiates trooping and solitary faries. Others add fairy midwives, fairy changelings, fairy lovers and so on to the bunch. I assume, not all of these appear everywhere. I'm interested where (within the UK and Brittany, that is &quot;celtic lands&quot;) which kind of fairy can be found." CreationDate="2016-03-15T19:00:31.717" UserDisplayName="user1324" />
  <row Id="4568" PostId="1501" Score="0" Text="Nice to see you too! :)" CreationDate="2016-03-15T19:45:50.847" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4549" PostId="1503" Score="2" Text="That interpretation is older and a bit contentious, though it isn't outright discredited by the academic community. Rather, it's the ancient interpretation of what happened, and it's partly right." CreationDate="2016-03-14T23:48:17.880" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4554" PostId="1503" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Why don't you add your own answer with the other part of what's right, then? ;-)" CreationDate="2016-03-15T08:00:35.623" UserDisplayName="user1324" />
  <row Id="16089" PostId="1503" Score="0" Text="Per Burkert, it's inflected wrong.  Were it the goat singing, &quot;goat&quot; would be the subject.  It is inflected as the *object* of the song." CreationDate="2022-08-26T04:07:15.077" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="4545" PostId="1504" Score="0" Text="Not exactly what I'm asking.  I'm looking for *which creatures* exist both in Grimm's Tales and in German myth.  I may edit my question to better reflect that.  Asking for a list of Grimm tales containing creatures from German myth would be tedious, if not unanswerable, though of course examples from the story are welcome." CreationDate="2016-03-14T18:08:48.680" UserId="1301" />
  <row Id="4546" PostId="1504" Score="0" Text="@user Yes, I think a clarification is called for. What, for example, do you mean by German myth? Grimm's Tales aren't made up, but rather collected from actual people." CreationDate="2016-03-14T18:56:00.533" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4550" PostId="1504" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer just to clarify: while Grimms' tales are collected from actual people, the Grimms would frequently embellish/combine/modify the original oral accounts before they published them. So they aren't &quot;genuine&quot; folklore, which complicates this question significantly." CreationDate="2016-03-15T02:12:17.910" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4553" PostId="1504" Score="0" Text="@user I'm a little bit confused by your second to last paragraph, but I don't think that's your fault: the question could benefit from a clearer definition of myth." CreationDate="2016-03-15T02:16:00.287" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4555" PostId="1504" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet And a clearer definition of &quot;German&quot;. I think OP confuses &quot;German&quot; with &quot;Germanic&quot;." CreationDate="2016-03-15T08:02:25.333" UserDisplayName="user1324" />
  <row Id="16359" PostId="1504" Score="0" Text="Many of the Grimm's Märchen (Tales) are also taken straight out of literature. i.e. copied out of biographies (1812 #69), sermons, etc., etc." CreationDate="2023-05-13T13:30:41.740" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="4564" PostId="1508" Score="0" Text="Reasonable answer, but in the future, use more credible sources next time. See http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/105/what-are-good-sources-when-answering-questions" CreationDate="2016-03-15T16:47:35.427" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4571" PostId="1508" Score="1" Text="I hope this addition is good enough. Thank you for the advice." CreationDate="2016-03-16T11:16:05.547" UserId="1319" />
  <row Id="5966" PostId="1508" Score="0" Text="I personally think this is the best answer. The operation performed on Zeus' head wasn't exactly surgery and must've been ghastly. It also is the closest example we have of a full-fledged deity in Greek mythology losing his/her head." CreationDate="2016-06-19T18:04:53.677" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7405" PostId="1508" Score="0" Text="This type of brain surgery ([trepanning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanning#Pre-modern_Europe)) was written about by Hippocrates and is believed to date to the Neolithic period. Thus, the idea of brain surgery to relieve the pressure on Zeus' skull per Athena was not radical nor considered fatal." CreationDate="2017-03-31T20:22:05.103" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4557" PostId="1509" Score="0" Text="Brownies.  Or sometimes known as house elves." CreationDate="2016-03-15T03:48:27.977" UserDisplayName="jamesqf" />
  <row Id="4560" PostId="1509" Score="0" Text="Are you looking for these guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nome_Trilogy ? Btw, in Germany we call them Heinzelmännchen" CreationDate="2016-03-15T06:47:59.173" UserDisplayName="Confused Merlin" />
  <row Id="4562" PostId="1510" Score="0" Text="Do you perhaps mean that they were not little in *Discworld*?" CreationDate="2016-03-15T04:23:39.733" UserDisplayName="Jonah" />
  <row Id="4563" PostId="1510" Score="0" Text="@Jonah: It's one of those non-spherical worlds. :)" CreationDate="2016-03-15T04:29:29.343" UserDisplayName="MichaelS" />
  <row Id="4569" PostId="1511" Score="0" Text="Hmm, I'm not really sure this is what I'm looking for. For one, this appears to list individuals (the god Dagda) rather than classes (e.g. changelings). For another, I could not find even typical Irish fairies such as the Púca or Banshee in there, there isn't even an article on the sídhe. Maybe I'm searching wrong (and the site search does not work for me, it returns a 404). Could you post a direct link to what you would consider an example for an entry that you think would help me?" CreationDate="2016-03-16T05:38:21.963" UserDisplayName="user1324" />
  <row Id="4570" PostId="1511" Score="0" Text="@what You may be right. I recalled the site because I had used it in conjunction with a different project. I skimmed entries briefly before posting here and I saw some geographical notations, but looking again, it's clear that those aren't &quot;this fae lived here.&quot; Sorry it wasn't more useful. :(" CreationDate="2016-03-16T10:07:45.090" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4573" PostId="1516" Score="2" Text="Can you give evidence?" CreationDate="2016-03-17T21:48:41.103" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6459" PostId="1516" Score="1" Text="You need to link to the article on infoplease" CreationDate="2016-10-14T17:11:20.597" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4574" PostId="1517" Score="1" Text="What is the relevance for this?" CreationDate="2016-03-17T21:53:51.463" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7398" PostId="1518" Score="0" Text="haha. great answer!" CreationDate="2017-03-30T21:49:52.373" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4580" PostId="1519" Score="5" Text="This answer is fundamentally flawed. If Poseidon was once the &quot;supreme deity&quot;, but was replaced by Zeus, then the Greeks would be sure to modify their myths to remove any mention of Poseidon being the chief deity. Instead of trying to extrapolate the answer to this question from Greek mythology, why don't you try to answer this question using historical accounts of greek religion?" CreationDate="2016-03-18T18:04:37.403" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6418" PostId="1519" Score="1" Text="I actually think the analysis in this answer is valid, especially as the writer makes the point about the evolution of these myths.  But for facts, as opposed to analysis, you should really be looking to @solsdottir's answer.  NOTE: [Linear B](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_B) is an earlier form of Ancient Greek, so the references she mentions likely pre-date the Classical authors we're familiar with." CreationDate="2016-10-06T21:02:18.330" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4581" PostId="1523" Score="1" Text="Lucian's [True History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_History) perhaps?" CreationDate="2016-03-18T20:28:39.250" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6315" PostId="1523" Score="0" Text="No,  pretty sure in Asia: India or Middle-East, but thanks, i didn't know about the antique non-sensical SF &quot;True History &quot;" CreationDate="2016-09-11T20:01:51.720" UserId="123" />
  <row Id="6316" PostId="1523" Score="0" Text="Well, Lucian was Assyrian, so that covers the Middle Eastern origin." CreationDate="2016-09-11T20:04:45.053" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6417" PostId="1525" Score="1" Text="Adding to @solsdottir's excellent answer, these things were not as fixed as they now seem, millennia later.  The formation of these mythologies was certainly a process, beginning in the oral tradition and migrating to text.  A very strong theme across the body of Classical mythology is transformation, and not just in the literal sense of Ovid's famous work, but in terms of status and position of various deities and heroes." CreationDate="2016-10-06T20:27:03.093" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4596" PostId="1526" Score="1" Text="Is this from a religious point of view or a from a historical one? I.e. are you looking for what could potentially be done with the texts were the taken as true, or if the medieval Germans believe that Ragnarok has occurred?" CreationDate="2016-03-21T04:13:25.437" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4597" PostId="1526" Score="1" Text="@C.M.Weimer, from a mythological point of view, obviously not completely historical.  Perhaps, &quot;What would the ancient Norse people believe if they saw today's society?&quot;" CreationDate="2016-03-21T04:14:39.920" UserId="154" />
  <row Id="6013" PostId="1526" Score="0" Text="Interesting related read: [Why Ragnarok is not going to happen on February 22th](http://norse-mythology.org/why-ragnarok-is-not-happening-on-february-22nd/) -- Ragnarok has happened. Ragnarok *will* happen. Ragnarok is happening right now." CreationDate="2016-06-27T12:09:35.117" UserId="2724" />
  <row Id="6266" PostId="1526" Score="1" Text="@Monty Wild I'm not going to answer formally because I will be rage voted down, but it seems to me, as a student of mythology and an artist, that Ragnarök has indeed already happened. Yes the world is &quot;destroyed&quot; but it is then renewed and repopulated by humans.  It seems quite clear we live in this post-apocalyptic, repopulated word sans Gods and Giants." CreationDate="2016-09-01T21:04:17.110" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6269" PostId="1526" Score="0" Text="@cybermike, post it as an answer.  *I* won't vote it down..." CreationDate="2016-09-01T23:46:58.533" UserId="154" />
  <row Id="7696" PostId="1526" Score="0" Text="This is by far the weirdest question I have ever seen and I'm just going to come out and say that either you all or roleplaying or by the far the craziest people I have ever seen... Unless Ragnarok was a prediction of the Norse being conquered by some other people or something leading to their religion being disowned, this has a very solid NO attached to it...." CreationDate="2017-06-04T05:06:51.800" UserId="1101" />
  <row Id="10570" PostId="1526" Score="0" Text="As it happens, my own childhood introduction to Norse myth, as to Greek &amp; Irish, was via the retellings for young readers by Padraic Colum;  and in his *The Children of Odin,* he does treat Ragnarok as an event long past, largely I suppose in the interest of forestalling potential conflicts with the Christian upbringing of at least a significant portion of his readership." CreationDate="2018-05-10T13:11:24.023" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="4594" PostId="1527" Score="0" Text="I mean there are entire books written about the history of individualism. A good way to whet your appetite might be [this blog post that I wrote about individuals](https://taxicrash.github.io/2016/01/22/individual-dividual/). I can recommend some books if you like." CreationDate="2016-03-21T04:05:59.563" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4595" PostId="1527" Score="1" Text="That said, I'm not sure if &quot;mythology&quot; (however you define it) is the best way to look at individualism. It could work on this site, but it's more of a history question. More importantly, it's a really bad idea to lump thousands of unique cultures into the label &quot;ancient cultures&quot;: Depending on the location and the time period, different &quot;ancient cultures&quot; had different ideas about individualism. So the answer to the question &quot;did ancient cultures value individualism&quot; depends on: (a) which ancient culture you are talking about, and (b) what do you mean by individualism." CreationDate="2016-03-21T04:10:36.110" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4613" PostId="1527" Score="0" Text="Read some of Karen Armstrong's books. She discusses something called the Axial Age and how it changed religion so that it focused less on religious sources of authority and more on personal experience." CreationDate="2016-03-23T22:16:28.587" UserId="160" />
  <row Id="4599" PostId="1529" Score="0" Text="This is aiming at where I want to go. (The stronger association with the dead in Brittany might be a result of the earlier christianization.)" CreationDate="2016-03-21T11:10:34.310" UserDisplayName="user1324" />
  <row Id="4600" PostId="1529" Score="0" Text="Really appreciate the fact that you put the word species in quotes." CreationDate="2016-03-21T13:21:04.673" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4635" PostId="1529" Score="0" Text="I'm adding a link to an entry on the tylwyth teg (Welsh fairies) from Celtic Mythology by James MacKillop. Is that the sort of thing you were looking for? He's very specific about their context." CreationDate="2016-03-27T16:26:07.737" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="4601" PostId="1532" Score="1" Text="Thanks, but I had asked about heroes and gods, not goddesses." CreationDate="2016-03-22T05:07:34.763" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="4602" PostId="1532" Score="0" Text="Also, Persephone is an example of a &quot;dying and resurrecting god&quot;, which is explicitly excluded in the question." CreationDate="2016-03-22T08:38:24.603" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4604" PostId="1532" Score="0" Text="@ArthurGeorge Curious: why limit the question to &quot;heroes and gods, not goddesses&quot;?" CreationDate="2016-03-22T12:15:59.643" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4605" PostId="1532" Score="0" Text="Depends on your definition of death @C.M.Weimer. If we define death as descending into Hades, then Persephone does die (and is resurrected) once per year." CreationDate="2016-03-22T12:25:03.903" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4607" PostId="1532" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Hm, the way I remember the Odysseus story, it's more of a νέκυια than an actual katabases (he calls the spirits of the dead, he doesn't physically descent to Hades)." CreationDate="2016-03-22T13:07:39.757" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4610" PostId="1532" Score="1" Text="In answer to Hamlet's question, I didn't inquire about the goddesses and their trips to the underworld because that is so well-known. I just want to make sure I'm not missing any heroes or gods who return/reappear in the spring." CreationDate="2016-03-22T21:04:43.980" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="4618" PostId="1532" Score="0" Text="@Yannis It's both: &quot; 'You will want no guide,' she answered; 'raise you mast, set your white sails, sit quite still, and the North Wind will blow you there of itself. When your ship has traversed the waters of Oceanus, you will reach the fertile shore of Proserpine's country with its groves of tall poplars and willows that shed their fruit untimely; here beach your ship upon the shore of Oceanus, and go straight on to the dark abode of Hades. You will find it near the place where the rivers Pyriphlegethon and Cocytus flow into Acheron.' &quot; But I don't think it's necessary to get into semantics." CreationDate="2016-03-25T00:53:05.060" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7969" PostId="1532" Score="0" Text="Goddess may be taken by some to mean &quot;deified culture hero&quot;.  Not only is Kore associated with the Spring, in some sense she *is* the Spring. (Maiden, as opposed to Mother or Crone.)  Excellent answer!  I'm glad you posted." CreationDate="2017-08-01T19:39:18.050" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4611" PostId="1535" Score="0" Text="True.  However, if we could bring an ancient Norse worshipper of the Norse pantheon forward in time, might they conclude that Ragnarok had happened, and that we were now living in a post-Ragnarok world?" CreationDate="2016-03-23T22:05:03.403" UserId="154" />
  <row Id="4612" PostId="1535" Score="0" Text="I guess that depends on how you think about religion? Like, Norse worshippers weren't regularly grabbing dinner with Odin or Thor in reality. Their gods are just as non-existent then as they are now, so if they could believe they were out there then, they could also believe in them now." CreationDate="2016-03-23T22:14:22.890" UserId="160" />
  <row Id="6267" PostId="1535" Score="1" Text="The one flaw with this theory is that the world is subsequently renewed and repopulated.  How do we know we're not living in that repopulated world?" CreationDate="2016-09-01T21:06:09.383" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6274" PostId="1535" Score="0" Text="@CyberMike according to DevSolar's linked article we can assume we are. And there probably never was a &quot;first time&quot;." CreationDate="2016-09-02T18:53:28.717" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="4614" PostId="1537" Score="0" Text="Thanks so much for the response, a lot of that resonates with my original thought, especially the part about christianity as a movement, even early on, encouraging the idea of individualism in cultures." CreationDate="2016-03-23T22:18:11.310" UserId="1357" />
  <row Id="4615" PostId="1537" Score="0" Text="@JesseJohnson be careful with that. I don't think it's completely accurate to say that these changes took place due to inherent properties of Christianity; there might be some connection, but it's not the whole story. I think it's more accurate to say that these changes were *reflected* in Christianity, if that distinction makes sense." CreationDate="2016-03-24T03:14:44.100" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4616" PostId="1537" Score="0" Text="@JesseJohnson on second thought, I partially take that back: later on in the history of Christianity doctrine did play a big role in *causing* individuality. If you want to pursue this further, you really need to learn more about specific details in the history of Christianity. Talking about vague terms like &quot;ancient cultures&quot; and religion isn't very helpful. Like I said, these are more history questions than mythology questions. If you want to have more of a discussion about this, you can email me (instructions for doing so can be found on my blog)." CreationDate="2016-03-24T03:21:23.273" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4620" PostId="1537" Score="0" Text="I think it's a bit of both, since Romans were getting interested in [mystery religions](https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/myst/hd_myst.htm) that involved individual salvation at the time Christianity was gettin going. Some commentators give the imprerssion that they regarded the Christians as another odd sect, alongside Mithra, Isis, Cybele, Demeter and Serapis. I think the world was turning that way anyhow, and Christianity filled that need." CreationDate="2016-03-25T14:45:16.590" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="4632" PostId="1544" Score="4" Text="See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charybdis#Overview: &quot;&quot;A later myth makes Charybdis the daughter of Poseidon and Gaia and living as a loyal servant to Poseidon. She aided him in his feud with Zeus, and as such, helped him engulf lands and islands in water. Zeus, angry for the land she stole from him, cursed her into a hideous bladder of a monster, with flippers for arms and legs, and an uncontrollable thirst for the sea. . .&quot; Also, see http://www.theoi.com/Pontios/Kharybdis.html." CreationDate="2016-03-26T21:16:18.477" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="5955" PostId="1544" Score="0" Text="that's Scylla not skyla" CreationDate="2016-06-18T21:29:51.673" UserId="2690" />
  <row Id="5956" PostId="1544" Score="0" Text="@FeyRay as Scylla doesn't have an English translation I can spell it however I like." CreationDate="2016-06-18T21:37:38.420" UserId="1224" />
  <row Id="6297" PostId="1544" Score="1" Text="@tox123 Not if you want Classical scholars to know what you are talking about lol (it does transfer directly to Latinized text in that &quot;u&quot; is generally rendered as a y which Ancient Greek lacks. It should always have two L's, and c is preferred over k in this case because of pronunciation, Ancient Greek also not having a c.)" CreationDate="2016-09-07T20:45:31.330" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4636" PostId="1546" Score="2" Text="Well he was a greedy guy who fed the gods his own children so I guess the punishment was representing the fact that his crime involved food." CreationDate="2016-03-27T19:36:48.863" UserId="1294" />
  <row Id="4641" PostId="1551" Score="0" Text="So the name is the only difference?" CreationDate="2016-03-29T07:36:56.300" UserId="1386" />
  <row Id="4642" PostId="1551" Score="0" Text="Yep....., maybe some cultural differences, but I can't find evidence for that." CreationDate="2016-03-29T11:33:37.193" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4643" PostId="1553" Score="2" Text="Could you please give some idea of the content of the linked article.  Answers that are just links are not helpful and are likely to be deleted." CreationDate="2016-03-30T08:29:35.923" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="4649" PostId="1555" Score="2" Text="None of them were ever all-encompassing. When separated peoples came into contact, there was always a blend, and that includes the Greeks and Romans." CreationDate="2016-03-31T01:04:08.360" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7170" PostId="1555" Score="0" Text="Sumerian to Babylonian?" CreationDate="2017-03-05T02:08:05.880" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="4647" PostId="1556" Score="0" Text="I mean, well, a complete adaption of ideas, not converting, and myth systems specifically." CreationDate="2016-03-30T23:20:29.713" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4648" PostId="1556" Score="0" Text="@bleh `&quot;a complete adaption of ideas&quot;` the romans, which was the example you gave in your question, made many changes to the Greek religion. `&quot;myth systems specifically&quot;` Myth doesn't make sense in this context. Religion is a better word. Besides, I'm not quite sure what you mean by &quot;myth systems&quot; `:not converting&quot;` Not quite sure what you mean by converting. I'm pretty sure that the spread of Buddhism to China was mostly nonviolent, although I could be wrong." CreationDate="2016-03-30T23:25:58.927" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="9050" PostId="1561" Score="0" Text="In Slavic mythology some Bogatyrs can freely transform into animals, to cover greater distances or to look from above." CreationDate="2018-02-27T12:21:31.067" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="4654" PostId="1562" Score="0" Text="What exactly do you mean?" CreationDate="2016-04-04T18:37:12.177" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4655" PostId="1562" Score="1" Text="If it's immortality you're after: 1) Create a magnificent piece of art (*see McCartney, Paul; DaVinci, Leonardo; Shelley, Mary*). 2) Hire a really good agent." CreationDate="2016-04-04T19:39:06.867" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4674" PostId="1562" Score="2" Text="For the Greeks, the quickest way to become a god is to drink ambrosia." CreationDate="2016-04-06T22:19:45.673" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4659" PostId="1564" Score="1" Text="Could you point us to an actual story from the Arthurian legend that supports your claim that drinking from the holy grail grants immortality?" CreationDate="2016-04-05T08:43:10.040" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4661" PostId="1564" Score="0" Text="The last guy to drink from it is still sleeping it off. ;) Also given the number of knights destroyed by the Quest for the Grail, I would surly not consider it an easy way." CreationDate="2016-04-05T11:28:06.330" UserId="1417" />
  <row Id="4662" PostId="1568" Score="0" Text="I see where you are coming from. But I do not think that belief or worship is a critical requirement, it only serves the ego.&#xA;Roughly speaking in all creation myths the creation of humans was one of the last steps (please do not quote me on this; it is just that none that would say otherwise come to my mind right now).&#xA;Any immortality or godhood based on external forces, be it fame or belief is not only undesirable, but dangerous." CreationDate="2016-04-05T14:59:19.663" UserId="1417" />
  <row Id="4663" PostId="1568" Score="0" Text="Being viewed as a god, I would say, is a necessary requirement for most definitions of the word god outside of the god as creator definition. Perhaps you need to rethink the question, or provide a more complete idea of your definition of godhood, and how it differs from the ideas of either immortality or power, both of which can just as easily describe a sorcerer or any number of mythological beings." CreationDate="2016-04-05T15:36:34.403" UserId="1415" />
  <row Id="4664" PostId="1568" Score="0" Text="Think what worship is all about. It is an arrangement, you will worship me and sacrifice to me, while I will protect you, increase your luck. Or, you better worship me or I shall kill all your livestock. This means that if I derive my godhood from my sheeple, I have to keep my divine sense on them constantly - so not an easy way." CreationDate="2016-04-05T18:40:32.560" UserId="1417" />
  <row Id="4666" PostId="1568" Score="0" Text="I presented most of the ways I could think of, outside the ones you covered in the question, I didn't say they were all easy. One I didn't cover was the case of Psyche, which I believe you may have referenced with ambrosia, but this was still conferred by existing gods admitting Psyche into the club (or by the mortals who wrote down the myth). In this sense becoming a god is attained by embodying an archetype, such as Hendrix for guitarists. Also this still doesn't answer my critique of your premise, you need to provide a better definition of godhood as you see it." CreationDate="2016-04-05T18:52:12.310" UserId="1415" />
  <row Id="4667" PostId="1568" Score="0" Text="Also worship is more broad than that I think. To worship something can also mean to appreciate it, or to seek to emulate it." CreationDate="2016-04-05T18:53:54.163" UserId="1415" />
  <row Id="4668" PostId="1568" Score="0" Text="I think we are going at it from 2 different view-points. Modern/Ancient, Mental/Physical, Real World/Mythology. We can agree that a god is more than a human. I take it, that for you a god is an ideal - that is why it needs to be emulated, is an archetype, fulfils a human need.  In this question I look on a god from a practical side: a god is an eternal being with supernatural powers.  By my definition the Founders in Star Trek would be gods - immortal as long you do not have n energy weapon and can change their shape." CreationDate="2016-04-05T19:35:20.627" UserId="1417" />
  <row Id="4669" PostId="1568" Score="0" Text="Let us [continue this discussion in chat](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/37980/discussion-between-martin-handrlica-and-ben-cannon)." CreationDate="2016-04-05T19:35:37.173" UserId="1417" />
  <row Id="4677" PostId="1571" Score="0" Text="In ancient Greek society, which Olympus largely models, a distinction was made between half-siblings through the father and half-siblings through the mother: they had a differing legal statuses  The former were allowed to intermarry, for instance;  that latter were not allowed.  typical than that between Herakles and Hera (Herakles was bound to his stepmother for exceptional reasons)." CreationDate="2016-04-07T17:48:42.523" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="4678" PostId="1571" Score="0" Text="Step-mothers had little or no binding authority over step-children, but that's not unexpected since mothers had little legal authority over their biological children.  The relationship between Hippolytus and Phaedra, for example, was more" CreationDate="2016-04-07T17:48:51.790" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="4672" PostId="1573" Score="1" Text="Would the Amish count?" CreationDate="2016-04-06T09:58:47.960" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4679" PostId="1578" Score="0" Text="That's one of many interpretations of the story. That said, I'm not sure how the story of Abel and Cain is critical of &quot;science and technology&quot;" CreationDate="2016-04-07T19:56:02.307" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4682" PostId="1578" Score="0" Text="The dominant academic view is that agriculture represents technical progress over pastoralism." CreationDate="2016-04-07T22:15:25.673" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4683" PostId="1578" Score="4" Text="I'd concur with this. The tower of Babel has a similar theme, as well as the tree of knowledge right back in the garden of Eden." CreationDate="2016-04-09T13:38:37.150" UserId="1415" />
  <row Id="4687" PostId="1578" Score="0" Text="It is *not* the dominant academic view, [it is one of many interpretations of the story](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/944/62). Regardless, I'm still not quite sure how you would interpret the story as being critical of &quot;civilization or technology&quot;." CreationDate="2016-04-10T22:38:06.773" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4688" PostId="1578" Score="0" Text="@BenCannon the story of the tower of Babel would probably be a better example than the one given in this answer." CreationDate="2016-04-10T22:39:09.670" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4689" PostId="1578" Score="2" Text="@Hamlet. Do have a look at what I actually wrote. I was discussing the &quot;dominant academic view&quot; not of the exegesis of the Cain and Abel story, but that of the historic role of agriculture versus animal husbandry." CreationDate="2016-04-11T08:17:24.700" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4685" PostId="1581" Score="1" Text="I hadn't thought of it that way. I always assumed that the story of Odin's brothers was the basis for Loki's insult to Frigg in Lokasenna. (Which it might be - he twists everything the gods did to make it discreditable.) But it's an Old Norse version of [Deut. 25.5](http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/25-5.htm)" CreationDate="2016-04-10T18:52:28.920" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="4736" PostId="1581" Score="0" Text="&quot;both of them took his wife Frigg to themselves&quot; is suspiciously awkward phrasing. That's often a red flag that they are trying to say something without actually coming out and saying it. So in this case, not being an expert on this particular passage, I'd assume sex was in fact being implied, until convinced otherwise." CreationDate="2016-04-26T18:06:35.703" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="4737" PostId="1581" Score="0" Text="@T.E.D. - Well, I would point that it is stated in alongside their taking possession of the rest of his estate.  As far as whether this would be some sort of celibate relationship, of course not.  If she is taken as a wife, sex (and bearing children) would *certainly* be expected.  No question there.  The point I'm making is that, as a legitimate wife, the coupling would not be *cheating*." CreationDate="2016-04-26T18:40:45.127" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4738" PostId="1581" Score="1" Text="@femtoRgon - Agreed. Not only would it not be cheating, it could be considered their responsibility. However, the &quot;both of them&quot; part I think is highly irregular, and at the least implies they didn't consider this &quot;responsibility&quot; much of a burden." CreationDate="2016-04-26T20:03:58.423" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="12350" PostId="1581" Score="0" Text="Error in transmission? I would expect they *took her as herself*, as both taking her for themselves is a paradox if they *but* shared the rest; unless menage a trois is contrasted, which I would not expect. lulz" CreationDate="2020-02-13T17:06:43.100" UserId="6645" />
  <row Id="12428" PostId="1581" Score="0" Text="So she didn't chose to be with Odin's brothers(really weird that she was with both) but she did sleep(have sex) with them? So how is that not infidelity? Let's spin this to a real life situation you are Bjorn and on a business trip your plane crashes in the south pacific sort of reminiscent to what happened in Castaway. You are presumed dead due to how long you were missing so your wife Helga ends up becoming the wife of both of your brothers smh wth. I understand/am aware of the old practice where you would essentially inherit/marry your brother's wife upon his passing as both a way to honor" CreationDate="2020-02-16T12:38:03.623" UserId="6688" />
  <row Id="4686" PostId="1583" Score="3" Text="Joseph Campbell wrote several books about the monomyth (the most popular is the book The Hero with a Thousand Faces). Since it's bad practice to make arguments without backing them up, he included several examples of myths that featured the monomyth. The best way to answer this question would be for you to get a copy of *The Hero with a Thousand Faces* (available from a local library, and I also think you might be able to find it online)." CreationDate="2016-04-10T22:34:34.287" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4690" PostId="1583" Score="1" Text="[This caveat](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/1232/111) may be relevant here." CreationDate="2016-04-11T08:43:12.437" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="4695" PostId="1583" Score="1" Text="Possible duplicate of [Why, according to Joseph Campbell, is the monomyth so common?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/82/why-according-to-joseph-campbell-is-the-monomyth-so-common)" CreationDate="2016-04-11T15:59:36.480" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4777" PostId="1583" Score="0" Text="Even the wikipedia page you link to mentions (amongst others) Oddyseus, which was the first name that came to mind even before I read that page.Going by the description, I guess almost every single Greek classical hero-story could be construed as a monomyth. Either I (and Campbell?) are using th edefinition a bit loosely, or you are restricting yourself so much you don't see any (obvious?) examples..." CreationDate="2016-05-04T14:19:35.810" UserId="119" />
  <row Id="4706" PostId="1591" Score="0" Text="(1) Is serpent a word for dragon? If no, then I'm not sure how this answer answers the question: it's asking for the first instance where European dragons are compared to Asian dragons, and your example isn't such a comparison. (2) The second paragraph has all kinds of problems with it. I don't really think we can conclude, based on the evidence you have provided, that humans have a &quot;deep instinctual fear of snakes&quot;." CreationDate="2016-04-16T14:39:53.837" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4707" PostId="1591" Score="3" Text="Did you even read the sources I linked to? The OP never uses the word 'compared', only 'associated'. And *does* use the word 'serpent'. Any Renaissance European reading Marco Polo's account would recall their European dragon legends and say &quot;He's describing a dragon&quot;." CreationDate="2016-04-17T02:35:27.143" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="4724" PostId="1591" Score="0" Text="I've already read about the thing with the snakes, but since the Chinese dragons are rarely a source of fear and mostly benevolent creatures, I don't really think that that's where the connection lies." CreationDate="2016-04-22T16:57:50.010" UserId="1453" />
  <row Id="16517" PostId="1591" Score="0" Text="https://youtube.com/shorts/bv9tUYcHz-0?si=Z6FsVRx-2SE5cA_o" CreationDate="2023-10-30T04:25:19.867" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="4716" PostId="1594" Score="0" Text="As far as an answer, the [theoi page on Nymphai](http://www.theoi.com/Nymphe/Nymphai.html#List) has quite a nice list, including references if you scroll down a bit.  Just too much to cover for me to want to attempt an actual answer, though." CreationDate="2016-04-19T23:24:23.430" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4717" PostId="1594" Score="0" Text="Maybe I'll place a bounty...." CreationDate="2016-04-19T23:28:46.123" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4718" PostId="1594" Score="2" Text="If you like.  Personally, I still won't attempt it, though.  Look at the Theoi list.  It's supported by 19 quotes from 10 authors written over the course of over 1000 years (and it's not quite complete by it's own admission).  I'm almost inclined to say this is may just be too broad to be answered here." CreationDate="2016-04-19T23:38:14.920" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="5957" PostId="1594" Score="1" Text="Oh look, someone's referenced one of my questions." CreationDate="2016-06-18T21:39:34.853" UserId="1224" />
  <row Id="4713" PostId="1596" Score="1" Text="Well, can't say I'm really certain, but just to throw it out there:  It looks like a tiger to me.  Do we have any particular reason to conclude it *isn't* a tiger?" CreationDate="2016-04-19T22:54:46.697" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4719" PostId="1596" Score="0" Text="It could be a tiger, for sure, but it has a symbol on the forehead, so I think it is something mythological. A mythological tiger quasi ^^&#xA;But it could also be a fox I think..." CreationDate="2016-04-20T00:08:13.960" UserId="1475" />
  <row Id="4740" PostId="1596" Score="3" Text="This is the &quot;face&quot; of [Shu Han](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shu_Han) general [Jiang Wei](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiang_Wei), 202-264. The use of a Taiji is inspired by a semi-mythological military formation based on that [Zhuge Liang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuge_Liang) supposedly taught Jiang. @femtoRgon It's not a tiger. It is a recognisable makeup pattern in Peking Operas." CreationDate="2016-04-27T09:49:32.583" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4747" PostId="1596" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore - As I said, just throwing what it looked like to me out there. Any reason you didn't want to post that as an answer? Seems a pretty good answer to me.." CreationDate="2016-04-27T16:20:02.783" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4748" PostId="1596" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon Sorry, not meaning to criticise your comment; it was intended as an answer for why this isn't a tiger. Not posting as an answer because I can't furnish it with links to theoi / whatever meets the arbitrary standard for &quot;reputable source&quot;, or translations, or whatever new requirement people keep coming up with." CreationDate="2016-04-27T18:38:01.140" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="4749" PostId="1596" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore - Not at all, and I certainly see what you mean with the arbitrary requirements, but looking up [an image of a Jiang Wei opera mask](http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Opera/opera-07-077.html) was more than compelling enough to convince *me*, for what it's worth." CreationDate="2016-04-27T18:55:02.127" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4750" PostId="1596" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore who cares about the requirements anybody tries to impose: the requirements you are imposing to yourself when answering are certainly good enough for this site given the general high quality of your answers. Your comments here are definitely the correct answer to this question, and they are already good enough as an answer without needing to add anything more." CreationDate="2016-04-28T07:36:51.677" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="4753" PostId="1596" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore I'm convinced, too. Just post it as an answer!&#xA;Only thing I wonder is the intention behind this ear stud design(?)" CreationDate="2016-04-28T15:41:46.100" UserId="1475" />
  <row Id="6463" PostId="1596" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore I also think there's a case to be made for this being &quot;common knowledge&quot; in Chinese culture. It seems like one can walk into almost any Chinese gift shop in any Chinatown and see it.  I found this [thesis from RIT](http://scholarworks.rit.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4318&amp;context=theses) which shows the mask on p.16. Although it doesn't directly identify the mask as Jiang Wei, it's a start." CreationDate="2016-10-20T19:33:54.850" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4728" PostId="1603" Score="0" Text="See also http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/640.html in which two archeologists disagree about the location of Atlantis, and the annotation lists sixteen possibilities." CreationDate="2016-04-25T08:46:53.690" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="4735" PostId="1604" Score="2" Text="Note that &quot;The Pillars of Heracles&quot; was pretty much the limit of Greek geographical knowledge at the time. So this would basically be saying, &quot;Oh, its nowhere you know about&quot;." CreationDate="2016-04-26T17:59:01.763" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="4778" PostId="1609" Score="0" Text="I wouldn't pull the Illiad and Oddysee together. The Oddysee is the story of one hero's travels (along the lines of the monomyth), but the Illiad, albeit a &quot;prequel&quot;, is certainly not about that same hero. If you would see the Illiad as a monomyth, who's the hero? Possibly Achilles, but certainly not Oddyseus." CreationDate="2016-05-04T14:21:59.693" UserId="119" />
  <row Id="4780" PostId="1609" Score="0" Text="It is not my very own conclusion, but I've read this somewhere. Odyssey cannot be considered monomyth example by itself, as it is about a hero having adventures and returning home, but the beginning is lost. So we need to add Iliad, as it is about hero going for quest, which is the beginning, that Odyssey lacks. But I may be mistaken." CreationDate="2016-05-04T17:04:29.857" UserId="1503" />
  <row Id="4729" PostId="1610" Score="3" Text="For those interested, &quot;Greek Epic Fragments&quot; can be found [here](https://archive.org/details/L497GreekEpicFragmentsVIIVcBC). The *Returns* (i. e. *Nostoi*) is discussed pages 154 to 163." CreationDate="2016-04-25T14:11:43.423" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="4732" PostId="1611" Score="3" Text="I feel like you might be missing some of the context of the story of Atlantis.  To my knowledge, it's generally accepted to be a *fiction* used as an allegory by Plato, rather than a typical myth of the culture at large (though some question whether there is some historical inspiration for it, etc).  [Is Plato's story of Atlantis a Myth?](http://saleonard.people.ysu.edu/PlatosAtlantis.html) and [Plato's Atlantis:  The Anatomy or a Fiction](https://books.google.com/books?id=AMRl67uqD9wC&amp;pg=PA1#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false) provide some insight on that topic." CreationDate="2016-04-26T04:21:31.323" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4733" PostId="1611" Score="0" Text="I said what it was, and where, so I wasn't going to include a myth." CreationDate="2016-04-26T13:42:04.020" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="5932" PostId="1611" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon: I don't think it is generally accepted as fiction. There are lots of theories about its location (or if it existed). The most strongly suspected location (that I have read about) is the greek island of &quot;Santorini&quot;. Which was destroyed by its volcano about 3,500 years ago probably 1000 years before Plato." CreationDate="2016-06-16T19:53:33.487" UserId="2697" />
  <row Id="5934" PostId="1611" Score="1" Text="@LokiAstari - Generally accepted by *historians, classicists, archeologists and the like*.  Sorry if that wasn't clear.  As I mentioned, the idea that some historical event, such as the Santorini eruption, served as inspiration for Plato's allegory is possible, though strictly speculation as far as I know." CreationDate="2016-06-16T20:18:00.323" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="5940" PostId="1611" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon: Strongly disagree that's the generally accepted view." CreationDate="2016-06-16T20:58:52.113" UserId="2697" />
  <row Id="5942" PostId="1611" Score="1" Text="@LokiAstari - Disagree if you'd like.  I've listed a couple sources above, and [here's another](http://www.jstor.org/stable/3693746) that explicitly states that it is the position held by the &quot;*vast majority* of classical scholars.&quot;" CreationDate="2016-06-16T21:55:56.997" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="5943" PostId="1611" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon: It is accepted that &quot;Atlantis&quot; as described by Plato is not a real place. It is just part of some allegory in his story. But the question is if the described Atlantis is based on a real location is still under serious debate as he borrowed massively from myths at the time." CreationDate="2016-06-16T22:59:58.590" UserId="2697" />
  <row Id="5944" PostId="1611" Score="1" Text="@LokiAstari - Yes, that's right." CreationDate="2016-06-16T23:20:10.397" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4734" PostId="1613" Score="0" Text="But this is plutarch we're talking about..." CreationDate="2016-04-26T14:02:12.543" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4739" PostId="1613" Score="1" Text="It might actually be more accurate to say that Utopia was More's equivalent of Plato's Atlantis." CreationDate="2016-04-26T21:30:52.270" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="4746" PostId="1613" Score="0" Text="@T.E.D. - But wasn't Ancient Athens Plato's utopian state, and Atlantis it's militarily advanced adversary?" CreationDate="2016-04-27T16:07:46.697" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="8633" PostId="1613" Score="1" Text="&quot;But this is plutarch we're talking about...&quot; Except he cites Plato." CreationDate="2017-11-17T15:24:35.253" UserId="282" />
  <row Id="13492" PostId="1613" Score="0" Text="stories of sunken islands may well be in the realm of reality. Platos allegory of an advanced society may be embellished. This is of course difficult to separate, but reminiscent of flood myths. Flood of course does play a major role in Egyptian mythology. Metaphorical floods, e.g. invasions, might be appreciable, too, w.r.t. change-over, lost history and knowledge (language replacement), itself possibly caused by deluge." CreationDate="2020-04-04T08:06:14.410" UserId="6645" />
  <row Id="4743" PostId="1615" Score="2" Text="What makes you think that Cronus was ever the &quot;main god&quot;? Or that Zeus was a &quot;storm god&quot;?" CreationDate="2016-04-27T12:42:09.273" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="4752" PostId="1615" Score="1" Text="The wikipedia page on [Joseph Campbell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell#Evolution_of_myth) mentions a theory of his, concerning the rise of thunder gods (Thor, Zeus, Indra,...) but I can't seem to find where in his books he discussed about it." CreationDate="2016-04-28T15:00:39.360" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="16220" PostId="1615" Score="1" Text="Is there, in fact, evidence that this happened?  That there was the cult of the chief god, which faded away, replaced by the storm god?  Or is it the hypothetical reconstruction based on myths?  Such reconstructions have been found to be inaccurate, often enough." CreationDate="2022-12-21T01:46:11.213" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="4755" PostId="1618" Score="3" Text="Right [Here.](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/)" CreationDate="2016-04-28T21:59:56.500" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4762" PostId="1618" Score="0" Text="not quite sure if this question should be closed: I originally voted to close this question because it's a recommendation question, but on second thought, I suppose it could be read as asking what academic traditions study parallels between cultures." CreationDate="2016-05-02T12:34:15.673" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4765" PostId="1618" Score="0" Text="Not directly what you are asking, but you might be interested in archetypes of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungian_psychology" CreationDate="2016-05-02T20:34:33.983" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="4758" PostId="1622" Score="1" Text="Approximately equivalent to the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin." CreationDate="2016-05-01T13:05:22.287" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4764" PostId="1623" Score="1" Text="holy zeus that's a lot" CreationDate="2016-05-02T19:08:05.227" UserId="1525" />
  <row Id="4791" PostId="1623" Score="0" Text="Since when is Eris not the offspring of Zeus and Hera? Also missing the [hekatonkhires]:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hekatonkheires" CreationDate="2016-05-12T23:02:35.117" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="7700" PostId="1623" Score="1" Text="@bleh props for &quot;brute forcing' that number." CreationDate="2017-06-05T19:55:56.587" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6242" PostId="1624" Score="0" Text="Good point about Campbell.  Still quite worthwhile, but he may some degree of take license." CreationDate="2016-08-29T22:44:34.827" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6243" PostId="1624" Score="0" Text="@cybermike a little bit more than &quot;some degree&quot; in my opinion. [I wrote a blog post on the subject that you might be interested in](http://taxicrash.github.io/2014/12/30/monomyth-incorrect-dangerous/)." CreationDate="2016-08-30T01:50:18.770" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6244" PostId="1624" Score="0" Text="haha i don't disagree. *(just trying to be diplomatic since i've largely avoided his work;)* but he did turn me on to some non-Classical mythologies, so as you point out, some value there. i look forward to reading your analysis!" CreationDate="2016-08-30T02:25:09.933" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4767" PostId="1626" Score="0" Text="[Hawaiian Mythology](https://books.google.com/books/about/Hawaiian_Mythology.html?id=3SuCTOafmR8C&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;source=kp_read_button&amp;hl=en#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false), the book, sounds interesting..." CreationDate="2016-05-03T00:48:56.253" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4768" PostId="1626" Score="2" Text="Possible duplicate of [What are good sources to introduce people to mythology?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/1132/what-are-good-sources-to-introduce-people-to-mythology)" CreationDate="2016-05-03T01:33:34.963" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4775" PostId="1626" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the book @bleh (although was it really necessary to edit that capital letter? xd), and a couple of sources from that post look interesting, but there's almost nothing specifically about Hawaii and it's all mostly online. I want as many reliable books about that subject and only that one if possible, please." CreationDate="2016-05-03T20:50:18.030" UserId="1532" />
  <row Id="4769" PostId="1627" Score="1" Text="You're already playing a mythological creature which is sentient. Go right ahead and crown her; you don't need textual support." CreationDate="2016-05-03T09:40:50.113" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4770" PostId="1627" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum I've been told that I need textual support, or else I can't play the character." CreationDate="2016-05-03T13:03:50.207" UserId="1533" />
  <row Id="4771" PostId="1627" Score="0" Text="Might I suggest you find new folks to play with? Maybe over at http://rpg.stackexchange.com/? Because that sort of pedantry is just silly." CreationDate="2016-05-03T14:25:45.230" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4772" PostId="1627" Score="2" Text="@LaurenIpsum I'm a regular at RPG.SE.  I feel that this is less 'pedantry' and more 'no one in the game, myself included, counts MLP as mythology'.  Everyone else is playing a character well-established in other, older texts, and it doesn't fit with the game to have five culture heroes and a cartoon character." CreationDate="2016-05-03T14:45:24.117" UserId="1533" />
  <row Id="4783" PostId="1638" Score="0" Text="I dont see the horns facing directly upward...." CreationDate="2016-05-11T02:04:04.253" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4784" PostId="1638" Score="0" Text="OP's statue isn't the most artfully modeled one. Anyway, the qilin is represented in numerous ways; the second link contains qilin carvings almost identical (sans turtles and eggs) to the one in OP." CreationDate="2016-05-11T02:26:29.530" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="4785" PostId="1638" Score="0" Text="True, just pointing it out." CreationDate="2016-05-11T15:45:13.527" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4786" PostId="1638" Score="0" Text="Horns look like goat's horns." CreationDate="2016-05-12T04:48:25.850" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="4789" PostId="1638" Score="1" Text="It also appears to have scales like a qilin." CreationDate="2016-05-12T13:31:36.400" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="4790" PostId="1638" Score="0" Text="Good point @T.E.D." CreationDate="2016-05-12T22:53:08.690" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="4787" PostId="1641" Score="3" Text="Hi Tawny, could you add some text from your link to put it in context? This is also useful for the future in case of link rot." CreationDate="2016-05-12T10:01:55.673" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="13850" PostId="1643" Score="0" Text="Given that Roman Gods are pretty much the Greek Gods with their names translated, the answer to where Mars lives is exactly where Ares lives, which is, for a good reason if you ever visit it, **Mount Olympus**." CreationDate="2020-09-03T18:56:55.950" UserId="5594" />
  <row Id="4795" PostId="1649" Score="0" Text="Do you count gods who can be resurrected, even briefly, like Osiris? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris#Appearance" CreationDate="2016-05-17T10:13:04.863" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4796" PostId="1649" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum I feel like Osiris is similar to Kronos in the chopping up of the body and not really dying. Nevermind, I think he counts" CreationDate="2016-05-17T11:52:55.103" UserId="758" />
  <row Id="4798" PostId="1649" Score="0" Text="If we are to believe Plutarch, [Pan is dead](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2008.01.0252%3Asection%3D17)." CreationDate="2016-05-18T07:36:39.827" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="4801" PostId="1649" Score="1" Text="The Irish smith-god Goibniu and the healer-god Dian Cecht died of plague in the [Lebor Gabála Érenn](http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/lebor4.html#55), a mythical history of Ireland. In fact, the section on the [Tuatha de Danann](http://www.ireland-information.com/articles/tuathadedanann.htm), the Irish gods, ends with a long list of the ones who died. (Mainly minor characters, admittedly.)" CreationDate="2016-05-18T21:59:46.510" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="5931" PostId="1649" Score="0" Text="In norse mythology all (most) the gods die &quot;will&quot; die at Ragnarök (but it is in the future)." CreationDate="2016-06-16T19:06:01.960" UserId="2697" />
  <row Id="6169" PostId="1652" Score="1" Text="From the perspective of mythological analysis in general, their names would refer to characteristics of Odin.  @nooooooo 's *excellent* reference below may even be a wordplay joke. Classical mythology is full of puns and wordplay, and name meanings are exceptionally relevant.  Prometheus, for instance, means &quot;forethought&quot; and the name of his brother, [Epimetheus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimetheus_%28mythology%29), means &quot;hindsight&quot;.  (Epimetheus is, of course, associated with the opening of Pandora's &quot;box&quot;, where Prometheus is associated with such helpful things as the theft of fire.)" CreationDate="2016-08-25T00:18:57.523" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="4848" PostId="1653" Score="0" Text="I understand correctly that acording to this, &quot;true love awakes ...&quot; is a 17th century trope? Or is it likely the Perrault wrote down a far older story?" CreationDate="2016-05-31T14:03:35.943" UserId="1439" />
  <row Id="4849" PostId="1653" Score="0" Text="@mart - Perrault was definitely drawing from &quot;Sun, Moon and Talia&quot; or a similar telling of that story.  He changed the story to suit the attitudes of the nobility of his day.  Today, that &quot;Sun, Moon and Talia&quot; just sounds like rape, but that definitely doesn't take into account the attitudes of the storytellers (especially considering that they *do* fall in love and get married and all that).  I would also consider the Völsunga saga story to be a pretty good example, but that depends on whether you consider proven worthy to be an adequate analog to true love." CreationDate="2016-05-31T16:31:26.860" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4806" PostId="1654" Score="1" Text="The effect was significant, as was the effect from the discovery of Pluto.  This would be quite a long answer and I'm not sure it is on-topic.  See http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/331/tags-astrology-and-zodiac" CreationDate="2016-05-20T12:50:37.640" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="4807" PostId="1654" Score="1" Text="@Chenmunka I think this question is ontopic (I'm about to write an answer in the meta question explaining why). Anyway, this question is easily the most interesting question I've seen here in the past few months, so if you (or anyone else) wrote up a good answer I would give you a bounty." CreationDate="2016-05-20T14:01:31.463" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4824" PostId="1654" Score="0" Text="In which sense did these planets affect astrology? If you mean it in the sense of horoscopes and astrological charts or in the sense of historical myths associated with astrology, your question does not say. As such your question seems somewhat unclear to me." CreationDate="2016-05-23T14:53:12.410" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="4834" PostId="1654" Score="0" Text="@KenGraham Graham If my question seems kind of vague it's only because I don't really know much about the topic." CreationDate="2016-05-24T17:34:46.993" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="4810" PostId="1655" Score="0" Text="Sorry if this is a beginner's question, but is there any chance that you could cite a credible source that talks about the idea of significance (i.e. the farther away the planet, the less significant its influence) in more detail? I'm asking mostly because I just want to learn more about that idea (it was referenced in a now deleted question). That's the only thing I want a citation for: I trust everything else you wrote here." CreationDate="2016-05-21T03:27:02.803" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4811" PostId="1656" Score="1" Text="RE Frazer http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/998/62" CreationDate="2016-05-21T03:32:43.410" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4817" PostId="1660" Score="0" Text="This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient [reputation](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/whats-reputation) you will be able to [comment on any post](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/comment); instead, [provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker](http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/214173/why-do-i-need-50-reputation-to-comment-what-can-i-do-instead). - [From Review](/review/low-quality-posts/1022)" CreationDate="2016-05-22T03:27:29.930" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4823" PostId="1660" Score="4" Text="@bleh Actually, this does provide an answer to the question (&quot;the sirenes&quot;). It may not be a stellar answer, but it's an answer nonetheless." CreationDate="2016-05-23T09:32:42.830" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4818" PostId="1662" Score="3" Text="It's well-known that wire hangers and LEGOs will both multiply exponentially when you aren't looking, but I don't know what deity animates that creation." CreationDate="2016-05-22T14:57:45.003" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6344" PostId="1662" Score="2" Text="Mjölnir is never said to get heavier to the unworthy in the myths - that is a pure Marvel invention." CreationDate="2016-09-14T15:12:49.917" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="4825" PostId="1665" Score="2" Text="Hi, welcome to Mythology Stack Exchange. Can you provide weapons to back up the claims you make here, and perhaps elaborate a little on the specific weapons you list?" CreationDate="2016-05-23T21:52:50.103" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="4835" PostId="1669" Score="0" Text="When he says exponential, he means like a shield that when it gets hit, then it grows larger or stringer." CreationDate="2016-05-25T22:46:54.860" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4836" PostId="1671" Score="0" Text="Ahh yes - the Sorcerer's Apprentice is a great example." CreationDate="2016-05-26T00:56:36.667" UserId="1594" />
  <row Id="6916" PostId="1672" Score="0" Text="As Yannis comments, nothing is mentioned specifically with the exception of Hope.  Thus *Elpis* is the only proper name found in the text.  (You will note that Ἐλπὶς is capitalized in the Greek text.)" CreationDate="2017-01-13T19:00:03.053" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16050" PostId="1672" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Of course, the original Greek was all in capitals, so it's this translator's guess that Hesiod meant the person Ἐλπὶς and not hope in general." CreationDate="2022-07-30T22:54:42.723" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="4837" PostId="1674" Score="0" Text="Interesting tidbit: Not all ancient writers agreed on Cerberus' number of heads. In Theogony, Hesiod describes Cerberus as having fifty heads, and others describe the dog simply as multi-headed." CreationDate="2016-05-26T12:29:05.157" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="4838" PostId="1674" Score="2" Text="There is an interesting wider question here about multi-headed beings generally.  Not just in Greek mythology." CreationDate="2016-05-26T13:18:22.440" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="4839" PostId="1674" Score="3" Text="Just to muddy the water a bit further:  Not all writers agree on the seat of intelligence in the body, either.  Hippocrates believed it was the brain, Aristotle believed it was the heart." CreationDate="2016-05-26T14:40:13.427" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4840" PostId="1674" Score="0" Text="AND the fact that Cerberus may have had 50 heads is another one." CreationDate="2016-05-26T15:50:43.353" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4841" PostId="1674" Score="2" Text="The three-geaded giant in *Monty Python and the Holy Grail* was definitely NOT of one mind." CreationDate="2016-05-26T23:43:28.183" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="4843" PostId="1674" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka I agree — for example, did the Hydra have one mind/personality? Or would it keep splintering into new ones every time a new head popped up?" CreationDate="2016-05-27T09:56:27.270" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="4845" PostId="1677" Score="1" Text="Yeah, but this is _astronomy_. Not exactly mythology." CreationDate="2016-05-29T21:27:38.360" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4847" PostId="1677" Score="1" Text="True, you can look at it like that. I was trying to say something about the astronomical roots of its importance in ancient cultures, including in mythology. Each of the seven planets corresponds with a Greek god and a Roman god, for instance. (The naming of 2060 Chiron, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto came much later.)" CreationDate="2016-05-31T00:08:49.720" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="5887" PostId="1678" Score="0" Text="Ah, well look (here)[http://www.friendsofsabbath.org/Further_Research/British-Israel/Picts.pdf], it literally mentions it once..." CreationDate="2016-06-08T12:03:44.677" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="5939" PostId="1680" Score="0" Text="could you be thinking of the three fates? One to spin the cord, one to measure it one to cut it." CreationDate="2016-06-16T20:56:37.787" UserId="2690" />
  <row Id="5941" PostId="1680" Score="0" Text="@FeyRay yep, right. for example. But It is not the Erinyes ;) They are the Moires (Moirai ?), and, like the Erinyes, they are 1 and 3 at the same time ^^" CreationDate="2016-06-16T20:58:59.157" UserId="1624" />
  <row Id="4851" PostId="1681" Score="0" Text="Good question + answer. I hope that you ask the (now edited out) followup question as a separate question -- I too would like to know the answer to the question. (Also, disregard my now-deleted comment, I just read the question with a fresh pair of eyes and it makes sense now.)" CreationDate="2016-06-02T00:25:10.673" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="5885" PostId="1681" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet - The follow-up question is reposted now: [What changed in Greek culture to allow Herophilos to perform human dissections](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/1706/what-changed-in-greek-culture-to-allow-herophilos-to-perform-human-dissections).  Since it can actually be answered with the same source as this one, wanted to wait until I had the time to write an answer, as well." CreationDate="2016-06-07T16:34:32.950" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="13849" PostId="1683" Score="0" Text="Given that Roman Gods are pretty much the Greek Gods with their names translated, the answer about Apollo being the sun of God should be yes." CreationDate="2020-09-03T18:54:40.080" UserId="5594" />
  <row Id="4855" PostId="1685" Score="0" Text="I think there was a predecessor to Sol Invictus, called Sol Indiges, which may have been equated with Helios. http://www.britannica.com/topic/Sol-Roman-god. I wonder how this overlapped with the worship of Apollo as the sun god. Do you think Apollo was conflated with Sol Indiges? Or were they preeminent during different eras?" CreationDate="2016-06-02T19:58:39.273" UserId="1632" />
  <row Id="4859" PostId="1685" Score="0" Text="@ktm5124 It is impossible to determine for sure without historical documents. Augustine's devotion towards Apollo is known. I personally think Apollo was conflated with the Sol Indiges. [Here](http://library.flawlesslogic.com/frazer_2.htm) is an interesting read on Roman Solar Mythology." CreationDate="2016-06-03T01:40:57.423" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="5882" PostId="1685" Score="0" Text="@Nathaniel Just did it!" CreationDate="2016-06-07T02:09:23.017" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="4863" PostId="1686" Score="0" Text="Ring-a-ring-a-roses verifiably goes back to the 17th century." CreationDate="2016-06-03T10:19:56.073" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="5937" PostId="1686" Score="0" Text="I'm gonna say a Pick Up Sticks like game, or a game which uses stones by throwing them." CreationDate="2016-06-16T20:50:45.423" UserId="2690" />
  <row Id="4853" PostId="1688" Score="1" Text="I'm sorry, not all of us speak french... translation?" CreationDate="2016-06-02T18:08:54.193" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="4860" PostId="1688" Score="0" Text="You should get a translation done yourself on Google and the then post your question about what exactly you do not understand!" CreationDate="2016-06-03T01:52:21.673" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="4861" PostId="1688" Score="0" Text="&quot;Haven't I read this morning in Plutarque, that, at the beginning of the life of Romulus and Theseus, these two great founders of cities, because they were born 'secretly and from an hidden love', were thought to be the sons of gods&quot;" CreationDate="2016-06-03T07:44:48.237" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="4862" PostId="1688" Score="0" Text="I took the liberty to add my translation to the question." CreationDate="2016-06-03T08:30:09.817" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="5875" PostId="1691" Score="0" Text="I definitely remember that plague/everybody dead part to be in that book I read as well, so I hesitate to accept your answer. I thought about RvW, but considered it to be too young to apply, the plague struck Austria earlier and I assume the story to originate from there. Unfortunately neither Peter Klaus, nor Karl Katz have a publishing date to them and they both happen at the kyffhäuser, which is a long way from there to where I'm from. Also the oak is missing. In the stories of my people the trees are very important, so I assume that the oak is part of the original story." CreationDate="2016-06-06T07:09:38.150" UserId="1640" />
  <row Id="4868" PostId="1692" Score="3" Text="I'm pretty skeptical of this.  It seems much more likely to me that the spilled salt is used symbolically, and reflects existing superstition or religious symbolism, rather than being an incidental detail that started the superstition." CreationDate="2016-06-03T22:19:12.087" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="4864" PostId="1693" Score="0" Text="Would witchcraft and curses In general be an acceptable interpretation for you as what is an evil eye?" CreationDate="2016-06-03T12:28:07.423" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="4865" PostId="1693" Score="0" Text="There exists the Medal of St Benedict in Catholic culture , but I do not think it would fit into your parameters of the question!" CreationDate="2016-06-03T13:11:38.810" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="4867" PostId="1693" Score="0" Text="@KenGraham the evil eye isn't synonymous with &quot;witchcraft and curses&quot;, see, for example, http://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/1030/62" CreationDate="2016-06-03T14:52:32.190" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="4869" PostId="1693" Score="0" Text="@KenGraham - Not in general, no. By &quot;evil eye&quot; I mean a malevolent look considered to be capable of causing harm. Symbols on amulets or elsewhere, or other items, that are used in the stated regions to ward off the possibility of harm that would otherwise be so caused, and that are related to the symbols used in the Mediterranean region for that purpose, are relevant whether or not connected with witchcraft. Curses express a wish for harm, usually verbally, but if some involve a malevolent look then the same applies." CreationDate="2016-06-03T23:49:08.700" UserDisplayName="user1637" />
  <row Id="4871" PostId="1693" Score="0" Text="@KenGraham - That medal looks fascinating. The side of an instance of it shown on the left of [this image](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Benedict_Medal#/media/File:Benediktusmedaille.jpg), from the medal's Wikipedia page, uses both light blue and dark blue, as do the hamsa and the nazar, so it might be related. St Benedict's halo also seems sometimes to be enclosed in part of another circle. I do not know whether users sometimes conceive that they are using it to ward off malevolent looks. If a case has been made, or could be made, it would make a very interesting answer." CreationDate="2016-06-04T00:03:16.770" UserDisplayName="user1637" />
  <row Id="4872" PostId="1693" Score="1" Text="This might be interesting:  [The evil eye. An account of this ancient and wide spread superstition](https://archive.org/details/evileyeaccountof00elwo), by Fredrick Thomas Elworthy" CreationDate="2016-06-04T12:56:57.797" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="16109" PostId="1693" Score="0" Text="There are certainly beliefs in other parts of Europe about the evil eye.  Indeed, some Scandinavian regions believe in the Evil Eye, the Evil Ear, the Evil Tongue, the Evil Hand, and the Evil Foot, where you could also cause harm by hearing, speaking, touching, or stepping on something.  These beliefs tended to rise with the fall of active witchcraft beliefs, because the lack of active doing malice makes it easier to just countercharm and let it go.  But the exact charms I don't know." CreationDate="2022-09-06T00:24:35.397" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="4873" PostId="1699" Score="0" Text="+1. A very interesting answer. I'd never even thought of this. The goddess Tanit is often represented with a crescent moon." CreationDate="2016-06-05T00:07:52.603" UserDisplayName="user1637" />
  <row Id="4874" PostId="1700" Score="1" Text="+1. Thanks for this! Witches' balls sound interesting - always green or blue, according to the Wikipedia article. Mediterranean &quot;evil eye&quot; amulets are usually blue, often both light blue and dark blue, and occasionally green. This is getting fascinating, and makes me wonder about the history of Christmas tree baubles." CreationDate="2016-06-05T00:14:49.827" UserDisplayName="user1637" />
  <row Id="5873" PostId="1701" Score="0" Text="Just a few points that may make it more likely for you to get an answer. (1) can you give an example of some arguing that *&quot; I have seen Indologists argue that such descriptions are not actual prophecies, but rather &quot;retroactive prophecies&quot; written by people who were describing the actual state of the society they were living in, and the faults they found with it.&quot;*" CreationDate="2016-06-05T17:49:01.557" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="5874" PostId="1701" Score="1" Text="But overall, interesting question, +1" CreationDate="2016-06-05T17:51:44.427" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="5996" PostId="1701" Score="0" Text="About this part *&quot; I have seen Indologists argue that such descriptions are not actual prophecies, but rather &quot;retroactive prophecies&quot; written by people who were describing the actual state of the society they were living in, and the faults they found with it.&quot;*. It is kind of the same as in Books religion (Christianism, Islam, etc..) where a lot of people think, what is written in this book must be interpreted linked to the actual state of the society. It is common when you speak about an old religion ^^" CreationDate="2016-06-22T08:11:11.177" UserId="1624" />
  <row Id="5997" PostId="1701" Score="0" Text="@Gautier Yeah, like I've seen speculation that the beast (Antichrist) prophesied in the Book of Revelations is actually the Roman emperor Nero, who was ruling at the time the book was written and was hated by Christians." CreationDate="2016-06-22T08:17:40.307" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="5998" PostId="1701" Score="0" Text="Speculations are speculations. But I am speaking in a more general manners, like the place of the woman in the society etc..." CreationDate="2016-06-22T08:20:37.083" UserId="1624" />
  <row Id="6003" PostId="1701" Score="0" Text="@GautierC Yeah, I didn't mean free floating speculation, I meant that there's detailed scholarly work suggesting that the Antichrist was modeled after Nero." CreationDate="2016-06-22T21:48:45.140" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="6361" PostId="1701" Score="0" Text="You know Yukteswar Giri's concept of the cyclic  reversal of Yugas also seems a similar concept - like he wanted to show that since we were advancing technologically it didn't seem like Kaliyuga." CreationDate="2016-09-21T15:28:13.857" UserId="3013" />
  <row Id="5881" PostId="1704" Score="3" Text="You're friend is wrong. There's no such thing as an &quot;aakor&quot;, or a wolf with wings, in greek mythology. https://www.google.com/search?q=aakor+greek+mythology" CreationDate="2016-06-06T22:13:35.993" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="5886" PostId="1708" Score="0" Text="I would like to say this is a bit too broad, but I can't say." CreationDate="2016-06-08T12:00:09.383" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="5888" PostId="1708" Score="0" Text="Cecaeliae?  Where does that come from?" CreationDate="2016-06-09T15:41:17.583" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="5889" PostId="1712" Score="1" Text="Baldr is indeed dead, and lives in the underworld, but he isn't a god of the dead. He's essentially in cold storage until after Ragnarok, when he will become leader of the new, younger, gods. (Voluspa) But he does live in Hel, as if he were an honoured visitor. (I'm basing this on ch. 49 of the Prose Edda, which recounts Hermod's ride to Hel to get Baldr back.)" CreationDate="2016-06-11T21:42:13.567" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8612" PostId="1712" Score="0" Text="Baldr is a dead god, but Persephone isn't dead." CreationDate="2017-11-06T13:44:31.020" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="5898" PostId="1715" Score="1" Text="Related: [How did Helen get back from Troy?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/1484/57)" CreationDate="2016-06-13T09:18:16.330" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10363" PostId="1715" Score="0" Text="It's a good question, especially as this version is so well known.  There's another way of regarding Helen, as merely a pretext.  In some sense, this counter mythology could be taken as a reinforcement of that idea--no actual Helen but still the war." CreationDate="2018-04-10T22:56:29.363" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="5894" PostId="1716" Score="0" Text="By the way, I am very new here. So if someone can help me understand why this is such a low-quality question, it would help be become a better user." CreationDate="2016-06-12T01:26:17.867" UserId="2674" />
  <row Id="5896" PostId="1716" Score="0" Text="@DiegoF it's a few things. (1) This question is really broad: there are a lot of examples of examples of gods with &quot;a rainbow of skin colors&quot;. At Stack Exchange we tend to look down on &quot;too broad questions&quot;. (2) This is my personal opinion, but I don't really enjoy these &quot;name all the religions with [feature x]&quot; questions. In this case (as with most of these questions), I have no idea what an answer to this question would teach you about mythology/religion/folklore." CreationDate="2016-06-12T16:19:54.803" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="5897" PostId="1716" Score="0" Text="In contrast, [here's a &quot;name all religions with feature x&quot; question that, if answered, would add evidence for a popular scholarly theory](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/972/62). (3) Not everyone thought this question was a bad one: it got two upvotes and two downvotes, so two people thought it was good and two people thought it was bad. So some people might disagree with my above comment. (4) Thanks for asking for advice!" CreationDate="2016-06-12T16:23:30.937" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="8544" PostId="1716" Score="0" Text="Krishna, Shiva, and Vishnu are depicted as having blue skin in Hindu Mythology." CreationDate="2017-10-25T11:42:55.533" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="5892" PostId="1717" Score="0" Text="Sobek was not marine, and Triton was already a mer, seeing as he is still part-man-part-fish." CreationDate="2016-06-11T23:49:24.723" UserId="1016" />
  <row Id="5899" PostId="1717" Score="0" Text="@JohnWDailey - In fairness, if the distinction between &quot;marine animal&quot; and &quot;aquatic animal&quot; is important, it might be a good idea to state that explicitly." CreationDate="2016-06-13T16:29:33.353" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="5900" PostId="1717" Score="0" Text="I did say &quot;marine&quot;." CreationDate="2016-06-13T16:57:33.023" UserId="1016" />
  <row Id="5901" PostId="1717" Score="1" Text="@JohnWDailey - My point is, the word &quot;marine&quot; is often used imprecisely, as a synonym for aquatic.  That was my assumption of your intention, on reading your question." CreationDate="2016-06-13T19:00:10.120" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="10345" PostId="1718" Score="0" Text="Is that a direct quote of Herodotus or a paraphrase?" CreationDate="2018-04-08T10:47:22.947" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10359" PostId="1718" Score="0" Text="@Spencer The Herodotus is a quote in translation from an academic site presumed to be reliable.  You can validate against source text and translation at Perseus: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126%3Abook%3D2%3Achapter%3D113%3Asection%3D1" CreationDate="2018-04-10T22:41:47.753" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10360" PostId="1718" Score="1" Text="@DukeZhou the third-person references to &quot;Hdt.&quot; were a bit perplexing." CreationDate="2018-04-10T22:50:21.530" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10362" PostId="1718" Score="0" Text="@Spencer Definitely it could have been made more clear.  (I could check it quickly only because I knew what I was looking at.)  Keeping the chapter numbers was helpful, though, allowing me to go right to the associated excerpts." CreationDate="2018-04-10T22:52:27.393" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="5895" PostId="1719" Score="0" Text="What's the chronological order of variants?" CreationDate="2016-06-12T13:27:00.040" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="5905" PostId="1722" Score="0" Text="The goddess is driven away by a group of men who are changed in to frogs and named the Rustics" CreationDate="2016-06-14T04:00:34.400" UserDisplayName="Fey Ray" />
  <row Id="5914" PostId="1723" Score="1" Text="Wassup Obie! lol" CreationDate="2016-06-14T12:13:41.783" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="5915" PostId="1723" Score="0" Text="yes the mother of the twins Artemis and Apollo" CreationDate="2016-06-14T15:57:00.423" UserId="2690" />
  <row Id="6993" PostId="1724" Score="0" Text="It is interesting in that we do see subsequent deification two other children of Zeus, Dionysus and Heracles, who both had moral mothers.  I don't get this same sense with Hermes, who probably existed in older forms prior to becoming an Olympian, but it's a very interesting question!" CreationDate="2017-01-23T23:16:20.703" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7007" PostId="1724" Score="1" Text="That's so trippy that U bring up Dionysus &amp; Heracles: those're the exact sons of Zeus who someone referenced on MythForum when I asked the question there. About becoming an Olympian, I know that neither of the 2 younger sons U mention were ever among the Great 12 Ones [except perhaps for 1 dubious{?} claim ref. Dionysus replacing Hestia], but - thinkst thou not? - they are quite rather prime examples of deities who endured in older forms before becoming (according to the word of Diodorus Siculus, anyway) &quot;Olympians.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-01-24T18:38:31.900" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7008" PostId="1724" Score="1" Text="Those 2 characters are perhaps the most notorious for needing explanation of how they are such important gods, having been born mortal, that there are elaborate sets of myths (admittedly from late sources, however) about their previous/alternate versions, e.g. Dionysus' previous incarnation as Zagreus son of Zeus and Kore, &amp; the various other Herakloi [what's the plural of &quot;Herakles&quot;?] mentioned by Cicero, among whom are other sons of Zeus, 1 of whom is the prominent Phoenician god Ba'al Melqart (although perhaps w/ that last example we're getting into a spot of _interpretatio semitica_)." CreationDate="2017-01-24T18:45:11.640" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7010" PostId="1724" Score="0" Text="I use the term Olympian for Heracles to draw a distinction between the post-mortem heavenly status of figures like [Asclepius](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepius#Death) and the [Dioskouroi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castor_and_Pollux#The_Leucippides.2C_Lynceus_and_death)." CreationDate="2017-01-24T20:18:38.030" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7011" PostId="1724" Score="1" Text="Possibly the lack of need to validate Hermes heavenly status has to do with his astounding skills in infancy.  Stories of child Hermes most remind me of [Krishna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna#Childhood_and_youth)." CreationDate="2017-01-24T20:23:21.323" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7013" PostId="1724" Score="0" Text="Huh, interesting linkage there: I've never once thought to connect Hermes to Krishna like this. I like it, esp. because Krishna's immortality is even more so an ambiguous subject, at least during his mortal years. But are U saying U see a special dissimilarity between Herakles' apotheosis on the 1 hand &amp; that of Asklepios &amp; the Dioskouroi on the other? Because all 4 characters in view here died 1st (well, maybe w/ the wobbly exception of 1 of the Dioskouroi) before becoming a divinity on Mt Olympus." CreationDate="2017-01-25T05:15:43.203" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7014" PostId="1724" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer - You've inadvertently given me an angle which had never occurred to me before: Hermes is - if I've got my chronology right - the only 1 of the Great 12 Olympians who was born after the end of the Titanomachy, which maybe affects the manner in which he becomes an Olympian." CreationDate="2017-01-25T05:23:20.133" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7015" PostId="1724" Score="0" Text="(Poseidon, by the way, is for sure 1 of the Great 12, even though he has a domain which is geographically disconnected from Mt Olympus. 1 might even argue that the 1st Olympian gods ever were Zeus, Poseidon &amp; Hades, the last of these 3 preferring his gloomy [but extremely vast] realm to enumeration among his officially entitled relatives in the upper world.)" CreationDate="2017-01-25T05:24:53.937" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7016" PostId="1724" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra You are right about Poseidon, slight lapse in memory. But Hades definitely not. And assuredly there are many other gods that are not Olympians, like the Chthonic Gods. My point was that even thought they're not Olympians--residents of Mt. Olympus, worshiped as the &quot;12&quot;, that doesn't mean that they're humans. They're still immortals." CreationDate="2017-01-25T05:53:35.843" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="8049" PostId="1724" Score="0" Text="I think some wires got crossed here, perhaps on account of the preceding comments ref. other deities like Dionysus, Heracles &amp; Krishna, all of whom _were_ in fact born &quot;human,&quot; or at least mortal, &amp; how that might tie in to the question of Hermes' mortality state at _his_ birth. So I'm certainly not saying that any deity who is not 1 of the Big 12 of Olympus somehow was or might have been human/mortal at any point(s). I'm just asking about Hermes, which then has led to some interesting points brought up by both you &amp; DukeZhou." CreationDate="2017-08-11T17:09:05.950" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="12053" PostId="1724" Score="1" Text="With regard to the birth order of the seven sisters... you talk about it being &quot;indicated by the importance of the gods with whom they consorted&quot;. I don't think there's actually anything in the mythology to support that claim. In fact, as far as I can tell the only thing we know about their relative ages is that Maia is the oldest (Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 3.112 - but no other sources.) There are unsourced claims dotted about the Net that Merope was the youngest - but, like I say, they're unsourced. Do you have a citation for this?" CreationDate="2019-11-18T11:37:57.497" UserId="6394" />
  <row Id="12054" PostId="1724" Score="1" Text="Right you are: that only the detail about Maia being the eldest is derived from actual explicit mythography. My postulation ref. the birth order is my own estimation, as I say in that same sentence [well, actually more of a _guess_-timation]. &amp; that whole section of my Question is merely notes attempting to explain the arrangement of the family tree I illustrated therein, which in turn is a breakdown of the closest I could come to of an idea of how mortality &amp; immortality might work among these descendants of Atlas. Basically trying to explain away the apparent arbitrariness thereof." CreationDate="2019-11-18T18:04:59.863" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="12055" PostId="1724" Score="1" Text="Ref. Merope: outside of my own theorising here (based on the premise that the importance of the consort indicates relative age of each Pleiad) your mention of it(s Internet origins) is my 1st encounter of the idea that she is the youngest. No, I don't know of any ancient source that actually says this. Nor am I saying that any ancient author asserts the aforementioned idea about the ages of the Pleiades relative to their consorts. That notion is my own, from trying to present the extent of my thoughts on the Question (extrapolating the genealogical information which we do have)." CreationDate="2019-11-18T18:10:09.043" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6220" PostId="1725" Score="2" Text="@Adrinkra  Thanks for including that point about the lightning bolt!  There is a loose parallel to the Zeus/Semele story.  The reason I mention it is that Dionysus is a liminal figure like Loki." CreationDate="2016-08-26T20:51:03.477" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6228" PostId="1725" Score="1" Text="Ah, indeed. I've actually never noticed the possible connection there between Loki and Dionysus. Nice one!" CreationDate="2016-08-27T16:06:18.067" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="8053" PostId="1727" Score="0" Text="Thank you so much for answering. I really appreciate what you point out about the sheer distance this baby covers on his first day of life and what that must say about his nature. Indeed, it is comparable to the feats of Apollon when _that_ god is also just a day old, or, at most, just a few days old. On the other hand, though, one could argue that Herakles possesses prodigious strength when he kills two huge snakes as a baby, and he is undoubtedly _mortal_ at this point of his own story." CreationDate="2017-08-11T20:53:59.367" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="8055" PostId="1727" Score="0" Text="There is also another occasion when, still certainly a mortal baby, Herakles creates the Milky Way itself simply by spitting out milk that he’s suckled from Hera into the heavens. So Herakles has super-strength as a baby mortal. After he grows up, dies and then becomes immortal, he is made into the god of strength. Could a similar thing not have occurred with Hermes? He is born mortal, with super-intelligence and a great deal of craftiness which he uses to pull off a cattle-rustling heist. He becomes the god of thieves, having skipped that pesky step of having to die." CreationDate="2017-08-11T20:57:00.337" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="8056" PostId="1727" Score="0" Text="I’ll admit that this might not be a very convincing outlook on this. You make a compelling counter to this already. Herakles (as far as I’m aware) was an otherwise normal baby who wasn’t born walking and probably had no idea what he was doing when he killed Hera’s snakes or created the Millky Way. Yup, Hermes’ long walk (herding a bunch of cattle while at it) is a really strong statement of this!" CreationDate="2017-08-11T20:58:06.547" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="8057" PostId="1727" Score="0" Text="Ref. the word “holy,” it doesn’t necessarily refer to godhood or immortality, although often used in this context. Its most basic meaning is “sacred,” “special[ised],” “reserved/ set apart [for some specific purpose].” In a lot of the world’s calendars Saturday and Sunday are the most frequently occurring “holy-days” (holidays) because they are reserved for a different use in contrast to the rest of the week, during which regular work and routines typically transpire. Other Homeric Hymns refer to certain other things, like a song, a bunch of hills, and a building, as holy." CreationDate="2017-08-11T21:00:54.827" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="8058" PostId="1727" Score="0" Text="Having said all of that: yes, it is a likely indication that there is something different/ _special[ised]_ about Hermes’ cradle, though that does not necessarily have to mean immortality. See the points I note in the update to the Question above ref. the fact that, even though the Homeric Hymn to Hermes says that Maia’s “womb” is “heavenly,” Hyginus says that she's mortal; &amp; that there’s also a shape-shifting baby god named Zagreus, who was mortal. I admit, though, that Hyginus is a late (and non-Greek) writer while Zagreus is a very strange, obscure (and again, possibly, non-Greek) deity." CreationDate="2017-08-11T21:04:07.600" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14431" PostId="1727" Score="1" Text="Great answer. I would just add on the &quot;throw into Tartaros&quot; bit: the Underworld was not only &quot;home&quot; to deceased mortals, the Titans were held captive there as well. So Apollo's threat can be read in several ways." CreationDate="2021-05-09T11:01:35.400" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11474" PostId="1728" Score="0" Text="But again, only if you were an Olympian god." CreationDate="2019-04-11T13:49:33.820" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="5948" PostId="1741" Score="0" Text="And until Pythagoras, the ancients believed them to be two different planets. http://www.universetoday.com/42452/evening-star/" CreationDate="2016-06-17T12:53:11.817" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11991" PostId="1741" Score="0" Text="Are you saying lucifer erosphorus is adjetivial word to desscribe venus who is aphrdite venus who is not ever called by that name?" CreationDate="2019-10-10T07:59:14.463" UserId="6404" />
  <row Id="6015" PostId="1742" Score="0" Text="We can't forget Rick Riordan" CreationDate="2016-06-28T21:54:23.007" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="5951" PostId="1744" Score="0" Text="https://www.fleur-de-coin.com/images/currency/KM200/KM188_2002a.jpg seems to have some significance" CreationDate="2016-06-18T12:37:15.923" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="5953" PostId="1744" Score="0" Text="@bleh That's really cool! I'm glad you shared it, but I still don't think it explains why Europe was named after Europa. It just shows the myth is embedded in their culture." CreationDate="2016-06-18T16:12:59.533" UserId="1632" />
  <row Id="8643" PostId="1745" Score="0" Text="Are Elves considered to be gods? It's usually just the Vanir and Asgardians" CreationDate="2017-11-22T11:31:02.340" UserId="534" />
  <row Id="8644" PostId="1745" Score="0" Text="Frey, Freya and their dad Njord were Vanir. Heimdall was always from Asgard as I heard it." CreationDate="2017-11-22T11:35:07.103" UserId="534" />
  <row Id="5954" PostId="1746" Score="0" Text="Great answer. I'm familiar with the myth of Cadmus so that makes sense to me. I enjoy the irony you point out, of his not finding his sister, but finding something else by the same name. I definitely prefer the longer, more dramatic version you give over the alternative." CreationDate="2016-06-18T16:32:22.910" UserId="1632" />
  <row Id="5961" PostId="1746" Score="1" Text="Indeed, less drama make for less interesting storytelling, so doubtless why the Oceanid version seems to have been far less compelling for the ancients themselves. Incidentally in the more popular version where Europa becomes queen of Crete, Libya is her grandmother." CreationDate="2016-06-19T14:29:26.980" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6841" PostId="1746" Score="0" Text="The Okeanos connection is quite interesting and makes a great deal of sense. Where does it derive from?" CreationDate="2017-01-04T20:00:48.900" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6849" PostId="1746" Score="0" Text="According to Robert Fowler's _Early Greek Mythography_, the earliest attestation of this occurs in a fragment written by a certain Andron, who says that Europe &amp; Thrace [or &quot;Thraike,&quot; the region of warlike peoples to the NW of Greece] were Okeanos' daughters by an otherwise unknown Parthenope while the same Titan had another, even more obscure wife, named Pampholyge (or Pompholyge), who bore him Asia &amp; Libya. John Tzetzes' commentary on Lycophron expounds upon Libya in this context." CreationDate="2017-01-05T08:56:52.083" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6850" PostId="1746" Score="0" Text="Herodotus might be the only ancient mythographer to write explicitly about the Oceanid Asia giving her name to Europe's adjacent continent. Europa is an Oceanid in Hesiod's _Theogony_. This Oceanid, says Stephanus of Byzantium, bore Zeus a son called Dodon, after whom the city of Dodona, with its famous oracle, was named." CreationDate="2017-01-05T08:57:31.203" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="8992" PostId="1746" Score="0" Text="Added these notes as references in the Answer" CreationDate="2018-02-23T10:17:50.873" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="5962" PostId="1748" Score="0" Text="[References to the game have been found as far back as 3100 years Before the Current Era (B.C.E.) -- and the game was still played as late as A.D. 400 -- so it has been known for literally thousands of years.](http://www.ccgs.com/games/senet.htm)" CreationDate="2016-06-19T15:35:15.563" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="5973" PostId="1748" Score="1" Text="Can't honestly say Senet has been 'passed down by oral tradition': but draughts/checkers has a good claim." CreationDate="2016-06-19T20:37:51.547" UserId="131" />
  <row Id="5975" PostId="1748" Score="0" Text="Its from &quot;History for Kids&quot; under ancient Egyptian games, on their website." CreationDate="2016-06-20T02:21:10.097" UserId="2690" />
  <row Id="5977" PostId="1748" Score="0" Text="There is a copy of this game at the British Museum in London with a sign that states it was first played 5500-3100 B.C., which was the Predynastic period (before the age of the pharaohs" CreationDate="2016-06-20T02:43:27.010" UserId="2690" />
  <row Id="6642" PostId="1749" Score="0" Text="Cows are in fact one of the very few animals in India that are _not_ deified, just revered/venerated. There are (what an irreverent person would call) snake gods, monkey gods, elephant-headed gods, bird gods,... but no &quot;cow god&quot;. At best, there are stories of divine cows like Surabhi/Nandini/Kamadhenu, but these are nothing exceptional." CreationDate="2016-12-13T07:08:29.377" UserId="3234" />
  <row Id="8565" PostId="1749" Score="1" Text="Possible duplicate of [Why are cows sacred in India?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2305/why-are-cows-sacred-in-india)" CreationDate="2017-10-28T20:24:06.110" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="14484" PostId="1749" Score="0" Text="In &quot;[The Horse, the Wheel and Language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Horse,_the_Wheel,_and_Language)&quot;, which traces the origin of the proto-Indo-European language, archeological evidence suggests early indo-european herders consumed profoundly more wild horse and other game meat than cow meat, and it seems likely slaughtering cows may have been more reserved for ritual sacrifice and feasts. (There is evidence of mass slaughter of horses, similar to American plains buffalo hunting, but not of cows.) Which might be a factor in later status of cows as holy in India specifically." CreationDate="2021-06-20T00:40:16.673" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="5978" PostId="1752" Score="2" Text="You have done well JEDI, much research and thought, and useful information  in your answer, you could say that it is a  tradition that has been going on &amp; on &amp; on ---udderly  forever---pun  intended." CreationDate="2016-06-20T02:48:45.370" UserId="2690" />
  <row Id="6643" PostId="1752" Score="2" Text="This is ridiculous. For the same of making a far-fetched point you have a transparently reductive &quot;History&quot; that jumps from &quot;2nd century BCE&quot; to &quot;1857&quot;. Maybe you'd like to reflect on why those rumours would cause a mutiny if the attitudes were so different before 1857." CreationDate="2016-12-13T10:48:13.533" UserId="3234" />
  <row Id="6651" PostId="1752" Score="0" Text="@ShreevatsaR, the fact is that broad questions lead to reductive answers, which is why they're rare on SE websites. This answer is just an accurate listing of events over a large timescale, admittedly with an important gap that needs filling. In retrospect, it does seem like I read more into the question than I should have. I will try to edit this post soon to address your valid concern, though edits or new answers are welcome." CreationDate="2016-12-13T19:33:50.967" UserId="2703" />
  <row Id="6663" PostId="1752" Score="0" Text="@Jedi Thanks for taking disagreement so well. Respect! Actually Norman Brown's article is roughly fine, especially the sections starting at &quot;In Indic Civilization&quot; (p. 247). As he says, &quot;The bulk of mediaeval Brahmanic literature and even the later strata of the Mahabharat treat Ahimsa and the sanctity of the cow as established doctrine&quot;, so this is not something that started in 1857." CreationDate="2016-12-13T20:59:22.987" UserId="3234" />
  <row Id="7047" PostId="1752" Score="0" Text="Downvoted, because answer contains only one instance from history which is *cause*, all others are effects. Answers the questions incompletely, even though the links are a nice feature." CreationDate="2017-02-03T15:56:40.287" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="6009" PostId="1758" Score="1" Text="Wow. Do you like... work as a mythologist?" CreationDate="2016-06-25T02:55:58.447" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6012" PostId="1758" Score="0" Text="LOL... No, it's just a hobby I've spent a lot of my life on, but gosh, I wish there was a cushy job doing this stuff. That'd rock." CreationDate="2016-06-26T17:36:52.050" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6014" PostId="1758" Score="0" Text="http://www.shmoop.com/college-majors/mythology-and-folklore/jobs.html Cryptozoology sounds awesome!" CreationDate="2016-06-27T12:19:54.470" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6237" PostId="1758" Score="0" Text="Yeah, if I had a travelogue-type gig hunting assorted monsters in exotic locations that could be a few different flavours of kool :)" CreationDate="2016-08-28T16:13:39.663" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6273" PostId="1758" Score="0" Text="@Adrinkra There has been some [interesting research](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_A._P._Ruck) regarding the famous [gift](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kykeon) of the Hyperboreans." CreationDate="2016-09-02T16:08:37.327" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6275" PostId="1758" Score="0" Text="Oh? Does Prof. Ruck suggest that the gift is kykeon or some other sort of entheogen?" CreationDate="2016-09-03T06:13:31.593" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14432" PostId="1768" Score="1" Text="The problem being that &quot;[An(u)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anu)&quot; had the same name in Akkadian, which is a Semitic language.  Sumerian and Akkadian co-existed for several centuries at least.  So any conclusions about phonetic coincidence, while stll highly likely, can't be based on Sumerian being a language isolate." CreationDate="2021-05-09T15:05:18.823" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="6010" PostId="1769" Score="1" Text="Possible duplicate of [What are good sources to introduce people to mythology?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/1132/what-are-good-sources-to-introduce-people-to-mythology)" CreationDate="2016-06-26T11:54:22.047" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6011" PostId="1769" Score="6" Text="This is not a duplicate of a question which has no answers that mention Australia." CreationDate="2016-06-26T17:23:34.003" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="6170" PostId="1777" Score="0" Text="For those not familiar with the academic field, what @bleh is referring to regarding the date ranges is the time period the stories were put into written form." CreationDate="2016-08-25T00:25:35.670" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8540" PostId="1778" Score="0" Text="+1 For '...Share the belief that...'" CreationDate="2017-10-24T08:37:11.947" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="10889" PostId="1784" Score="0" Text="@yannis The image link here appears to be broken.  (Looking for a replacement link.)" CreationDate="2018-10-05T21:03:47.093" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6023" PostId="1786" Score="0" Text="Yeah, I figured it was something like that. Thanks for your help, though, and the link." CreationDate="2016-07-03T22:13:10.207" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="6737" PostId="1786" Score="0" Text="Related question: [What Phoenician story could be the inspiration of the cosmic story of five Titanes?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/2163/57)" CreationDate="2016-12-19T15:15:09.473" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="16634" PostId="1787" Score="1" Text="D&amp;D commonly pressed names into use for the lack of a better term.  There are two-headed giants in folklore; they wanted a name for them; ettins was handy." CreationDate="2024-03-09T00:45:17.673" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="6026" PostId="1789" Score="0" Text="Do you have a reference for the 500-headed frost giant?" CreationDate="2016-07-05T06:58:53.683" UserId="501" />
  <row Id="6027" PostId="1789" Score="0" Text="@March Ho- I think it was D'Aulaire's Book of Trolls (I was around twelve when I read it so I might be mistaken, but I do recall the authors' name had a D'-something)." CreationDate="2016-07-05T17:57:18.537" UserId="2707" />
  <row Id="16650" PostId="1789" Score="0" Text="Many jotunar had many-heads? I'm certainly not familiar with that as a common trait in actual Old Norse myth, although it wouldn't surprise me if it is common amongst trolls in later folklore which is then anachronistically claimed to be Old Norse myth about jotunar. Regardless, ettin is not a corruption or derived from jotunn, but is instead _cognate_ with it (i.e. both have a shared origin from which each derived independently). The characterisation of jotunar as frost giants, whilst common, is also hard to justify" CreationDate="2024-03-26T16:38:04.183" UserId="10955" />
  <row Id="6028" PostId="1792" Score="0" Text="The blessing of salt in the Catholic Church is used as a sacramental in keeping away demons. [To obtain blessed salt, just take ordinary salt to your priest and ask him to bless it.](http://www.fisheaters.com/salt.html)" CreationDate="2016-07-06T04:28:17.993" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="6043" PostId="1806" Score="0" Text="The sun goddess did quarrel with her moon brother, but she never married him. She [cut off relations](http://eos.kokugakuin.ac.jp/modules/xwords/entry.php?entryID=159) with him after he [killed the food goddess](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Ukemochi-no-Kami#ref34958). (She spewed up tons of food to give him; he saw this as disgusting and an insult. Depends on your point of view, I guess.)" CreationDate="2016-07-15T01:56:45.517" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="10649" PostId="1807" Score="0" Text="I know its not in the myth, but smoke and fire often had purification properties, so maybe the fire and ashes they used to seal the wounds with also worked as protection." CreationDate="2018-05-19T07:33:42.240" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10655" PostId="1807" Score="0" Text="I'd never thought of that: interesting possibility. Herakles _is_ supposed to have drawn the dragon out of its lair using flaming arrows, so that feature does indeed appear there as well." CreationDate="2018-05-19T19:33:10.620" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10656" PostId="1807" Score="0" Text="I meant that it is not mentioned as means of protection, but just as a weapon." CreationDate="2018-05-19T19:51:06.037" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10658" PostId="1807" Score="0" Text="Yes, I caught your meaning, &amp; am saying that your interpretation of the &quot;side-effect&quot; of the weapon-use is plausible... &amp; interesting :-)" CreationDate="2018-05-20T22:06:14.980" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10885" PostId="1816" Score="0" Text="Added Amurru, Ra (as Ra-Harakhte), Ausar, Andjety, Khonsu &amp; Attis" CreationDate="2018-10-04T23:13:47.580" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6487" PostId="1817" Score="0" Text="Someone protect this please" CreationDate="2016-10-31T21:12:11.063" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8755" PostId="1821" Score="0" Text="I agree with Matthew Menoche. As a practice of Asatru, I have read alot into Norse mythology. Freyja gets first pick over Odin. So not all the best warriors even go to Valhalla. It was part of the deal struck with the Vanir to end the feud between the deities." CreationDate="2018-01-02T10:59:10.527" UserId="4578" />
  <row Id="6052" PostId="1824" Score="0" Text="&quot;Hesiod ... says only many heads.&quot;  I've seen this claim around, but I couldn't find the source of it, myself.  Do you know where it comes from?  At [Theogony 313](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0130%3Acard%3D306), the hydra bit is preceded by Cerberus, and succeeded by Chimaera, both of which are stated to have multiple heads, but I don't see any such statement about the Hydra.  Am I missing something?" CreationDate="2016-07-20T16:19:52.463" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="6050" PostId="1825" Score="1" Text="About Zeus in particular, see http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/7/197 &quot;Did Zeus have any male lovers?&quot;" CreationDate="2016-07-19T14:50:05.880" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="6060" PostId="1825" Score="1" Text="' I am not looking for gods who are in charge of homosexual love, like the Chinese god mentioned above, but I am looking for gods who are naturally homosexual,' - Actually, the Tu'er God's origin story is that he's a gay man caught spying on a governor in the toilet, and executed for it. That's why when he was made a god in the Underworld, he gained jurisdiction over homosexuality. One would presume he remains a homosexual god." CreationDate="2016-07-26T19:12:30.573" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="6070" PostId="1825" Score="0" Text="sorry that's not a comment (don't have the permission yet) but Gibet gave you an excellent answer so i want to add to that that homosexuality is more of a modern phenomanom and i'll explain what i mean by that, according to ancient myths (horus and set, grecko-roman, loki himself turned into a female horse and gave birth to splenier and many many more eg.) the thing is homosexuality as we define it today is new, (actually oscar wild was one of the first to identify himself by his sexual orientation) majority of ancient culture viewed all this as normal you could have intercourse with w/e, you" CreationDate="2016-07-24T21:17:20.127" UserId="2793" />
  <row Id="11231" PostId="1825" Score="0" Text="&quot;I am looking for gods who are naturally homosexual, like Zeus, who took Ganydeme, a boy, as a lover&quot;. Zeus was not &quot;naturally homosexual&quot; nor homosexual at all. There are dozen of examples of his female lovers." CreationDate="2019-01-27T08:43:56.683" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="6054" PostId="1828" Score="2" Text="Can you give me some sources?" CreationDate="2016-07-21T12:19:32.827" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6059" PostId="1828" Score="2" Text="`In Japan you have one myth where the sun goddess Amateratsu is hiding in a cave and the goddess Ame is doing a strip tease to lure her out.` - No, Ama-no-Uzume did a dance and had a wardrobe malfunction, which caused the gathered deities to laugh, which lured Amaterasu out (to see what the festivity is about)." CreationDate="2016-07-26T19:06:46.907" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="7320" PostId="1828" Score="0" Text="A lot of this e.g. Achilles &amp; Patroclus and Gilgamesh &amp; Enkidu is conjecture just based on there being a close friendship between two men. That need not be homosexual." CreationDate="2017-03-21T18:36:13.883" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="6061" PostId="1831" Score="2" Text="*&quot;besides Ancient Egypt&quot;* Did they? So far I've only heard of **Nut** essentially being the sky with stars on her body. Is there some older mythology I haven't heard of?" CreationDate="2016-07-27T06:59:29.117" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="6062" PostId="1831" Score="0" Text="According to one book, but admittedly I haven't seen it in other sources." CreationDate="2016-07-27T15:48:47.970" UserId="721" />
  <row Id="6063" PostId="1831" Score="0" Text="Maybe add that (as a) source to your question?" CreationDate="2016-07-27T16:45:52.170" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="6327" PostId="1831" Score="0" Text="In Antiquity they mostly beleived the stars were pretty lights or gems, not other worlds" CreationDate="2016-09-11T21:28:58.800" UserId="123" />
  <row Id="13839" PostId="1831" Score="0" Text="In the early dynasties it was believed the dead Pharaoh would ascend to the stars to rule over a kingdom/world around that star. This is detailed in the pyramid texts." CreationDate="2020-08-23T13:44:01.903" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="6057" PostId="1833" Score="1" Text="&quot;Every time a bell rings, an angel gets his wings.&quot;" CreationDate="2016-07-22T23:42:28.293" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="7090" PostId="1833" Score="1" Text="Giants and trolls were said in Scandinavian folklore to not be able to stand the sound of churchbells. Does that count?" CreationDate="2017-02-20T07:15:00.080" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7096" PostId="1833" Score="0" Text="&quot;A woman drew her long black hair out tight /	 And fiddled whisper music on those strings /	 And bats with baby faces in the violet light / Whistled, and beat their wings / And crawled head downward down a blackened wall / And upside down in air were towers / Tolling reminiscent bells, that kept the hours / And voices singing out of empty cisterns and exhausted wells.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-02-20T22:51:48.770" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9104" PostId="1833" Score="0" Text="In Czech republic, mummified corpses of monks and priests can return to life, to ring the bell and warn against incoming danger. (origin - 30 years war)" CreationDate="2018-03-07T08:59:53.023" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="6065" PostId="1835" Score="3" Text="Where did you come across the one-third/two-third claim?" CreationDate="2016-07-28T23:07:07.497" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="6805" PostId="1841" Score="0" Text="&quot;Notice this tree (as a lot you will find) is a Mesopotamian one, and especially Babylonian. The presence of Tiamat and Marduk clearly signs the Babylonian nature. The fact Inanna is the daughter of Nanna and not Enki is another clear proof. A pure sumerian tree would begin with An (the Anu of the Babylonian).&quot; so is this a Sumerian one or a Mesopotamian one?" CreationDate="2017-01-01T04:46:45.040" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6814" PostId="1841" Score="0" Text="Oh....okay. Is the ancestry of An/Anu like [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anu#Family_Tree)?" CreationDate="2017-01-02T04:32:49.560" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6825" PostId="1841" Score="0" Text="okay.tq for clearing my doubts!" CreationDate="2017-01-03T04:45:03.120" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="8517" PostId="1841" Score="0" Text="but the Wikipedia page suggests that Apsu and Nammu are his parents in the Sumerian version. Are they Akkaduan/Babylonian additions too?" CreationDate="2017-10-21T13:55:44.987" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6064" PostId="1843" Score="4" Text="&quot;(As shown in ice age)&quot; Care to clarify what you mean by that?" CreationDate="2016-07-28T19:40:41.837" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6066" PostId="1843" Score="0" Text="It's a reference to the movie when the sabertooth comes to life saying that cats have 9 lives" CreationDate="2016-07-29T03:22:17.107" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="11240" PostId="1845" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Although, it is possible that this idea was conveyed via oral transmission, in that there was definitely trade spanning all of these regions well before Shakespeare's time." CreationDate="2019-01-30T17:49:37.487" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16584" PostId="1845" Score="0" Text="In Spanish, cats are said to have 7 lives. In some Arab countries, 6. It seems some are killed in translation." CreationDate="2024-01-05T17:13:17.293" UserId="10907" />
  <row Id="6171" PostId="1846" Score="0" Text="Are there any other gods other than the Hindu ones?" CreationDate="2016-08-25T07:34:36.883" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6178" PostId="1846" Score="0" Text="@K Vickneshvara I suspect examples could be found in one goes deep enough (for instance, the [Classic of Mountains and Seas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_of_Mountains_and_Seas),) but there would be an implication that they are not considered culturally significant which is why they are not common knowledge. It may be that the Christian tradition of the West has resulted in more focus/analysis on these specific archetypes. (i.e. this element of the Dionysus/Persephone stories is just one piece of a vast cannon.)" CreationDate="2016-08-25T14:08:08.840" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8305" PostId="1856" Score="0" Text="Whoa... Lots of really interesting detail!" CreationDate="2017-09-16T17:48:02.087" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6277" PostId="1857" Score="0" Text="i heard that apollo complains that it was unfair to kill  Aesculapius so Zeus resurrected him and put him in a closed study with his daughter , the goddess of hygiene's immortal clone" CreationDate="2016-09-03T08:05:33.007" UserId="2843" />
  <row Id="6110" PostId="1860" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon - I have no problem with the image, but since I don't have any idea what sort of work environments people might be viewing this in, I figure it doesn't do much harm to give them the choice to view it (or not)." CreationDate="2016-08-16T08:30:53.990" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="6115" PostId="1860" Score="1" Text="To quote [this answer](http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/258126/what-is-the-network-policy-on-questions-involving-adult-themes/258137#258137): &quot;Internalized censorship isn’t the answer to external censorship.&quot; Censorship has no place here. If the image is relevant and helpful (it is!), don't hide it. If it's not, remove it entirely. Not quite the same, but a very similar issue is [discussed here, on our meta](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/320/should-offensive-words-in-quotes-be-censored)." CreationDate="2016-08-16T15:56:02.483" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="6116" PostId="1860" Score="2" Text="@femtoRgon - I don't really see a dichotomy between &quot;relevant and helpful&quot; and &quot;must be displayed outside of spoilers.&quot; After all, let's not forget the *primary* reason for spoiler markup: to hide actual relevant, useful spoilers that some people would rather not see! The post you linked is actually not referring to any sort of censorship internal to a person at all, but to censorship internal to the network, i.e. as a matter of network policy - which is in reality a quite external form of censorship." CreationDate="2016-08-16T16:52:30.597" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="6117" PostId="1860" Score="0" Text="I'm not sure what actual &quot;internalized censorship&quot; would look like, but I suspect that it would involve not doing something for fear of attracting scorn. I don't think that's the same as being polite, honestly." CreationDate="2016-08-16T16:53:32.650" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="6118" PostId="1860" Score="0" Text="Amusingly, in the question that you linked to, a community manager [makes it clear](http://meta.stackexchange.com/a/258464/328832) that some degree of explicit censorship of material is in fact Stack Exchange policy. See [here](http://meta.english.stackexchange.com/a/981/130670) as well. I don't really approve of these policies (because they are really external censorship), but they *are* there, so saying that &quot;censorship has no place here&quot; could be a bit confusing to someone not totally familiar with policy. Risky if they want to post relevant pornographic video screenshots in their posts!" CreationDate="2016-08-16T17:01:10.253" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="6119" PostId="1860" Score="1" Text="You misunderstand.  In this context, by external I mean external to the site (or network).  That is, the hypothetical work policies.  Internalizing them would be attempting to preempt those policies by adopting policies here to police content and avoid running afoul of of those &quot;external&quot; policies.  That clarification aside though, further discussion would probably be be better housed in meta.  I've posted a question (and, of course, my opinion on the matter) [here](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/346/should-potentially-objectionable-images-be-censored-or-hidden/347)." CreationDate="2016-08-16T19:36:22.310" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="12060" PostId="1860" Score="0" Text="`let's not forget the primary reason for spoiler markup: to hide actual relevant, useful spoilers that some people would rather not see` it's ridiculous. The Baphomet portray has no genitalia, no adult, no nudity and is easily searchable in Google. If you treat Baphomet's woman's breast as an adult content you are tremendous prude. If you are superstitious then you are sharing your weird beliefs to other users, which is bad and that is not what SE was created for." CreationDate="2019-11-22T02:59:31.983" UserId="6509" />
  <row Id="12061" PostId="1860" Score="0" Text="@Suncatcher And if you call other users prudes or superstitious, or accuse them of having weird beliefs, you are violating the guidelines to Be Nice." CreationDate="2019-11-22T04:14:22.567" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="12062" PostId="1860" Score="0" Text="No one is stopping you and FemtoRrgon from seeing the image of Baphomet. It's right there in my answer. I am merely offering a bit of consideration for the significant percentage of people who would prefer to have the choice whether to see breasts or penises, whether because they personally don't want to see them or because it could lead to issues at work or whatever. There is no point denying that those people's feelings matter simply because I don't care about the image. I am not taking away your ability to choose whether to see it, but I am helping give other people the option not to." CreationDate="2019-11-22T04:20:28.420" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="12063" PostId="1860" Score="0" Text="Also, as for no genitalia...that's not a rod that Baphomet has there." CreationDate="2019-11-22T04:23:33.583" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="12066" PostId="1860" Score="0" Text="haha, so stupid to downvote another question just because of feeling sored by quite fair remarks on this answer. So childishly" CreationDate="2019-11-22T05:43:06.530" UserId="6509" />
  <row Id="12067" PostId="1860" Score="0" Text="@Suncatcher - What? I downvoted that question, sure, but because it seemed to equate confidence with accuracy. At first I thought it was an error, but since the question used &quot;trustworthy&quot; correctly in another sentence, I concluded it was intentional." CreationDate="2019-11-22T05:43:35.617" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="6080" PostId="1861" Score="0" Text="&quot;It was not an inflexible fate; Zeus, if he chose, had the power of saving even those who were already on the point of being seized by their fate.&quot;" CreationDate="2016-08-10T00:24:42.843" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6081" PostId="1862" Score="0" Text="Your second quote seems to contradict your first, saying that Zeus is *obeyed by* Moira." CreationDate="2016-08-10T00:34:10.297" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="6156" PostId="1862" Score="0" Text="Important to note that when Zeus swore his oath to Semele, he swore on the river Styx, which is why he could not break his vow.  This is another example of the Gods being subject to greater powers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styx#Significance_of_the_River_Styx" CreationDate="2016-08-24T14:19:24.130" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6095" PostId="1863" Score="0" Text="'Satan' per se is a figure of Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition. Would you accept a response from outside that tradition?" CreationDate="2016-08-12T00:30:54.923" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="6096" PostId="1863" Score="0" Text="@Spencer - You mean some other god of evil, adversary, or trickster spirit? Not really. I'm sure there's some such entity that's even exclusively female, but that's not really what I'm wondering." CreationDate="2016-08-12T00:45:26.120" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10498" PostId="1863" Score="0" Text="@Gibet - Certainly. Even back in Medieval times and earlier, theologians would tell you that the devil was a formless spirit, but the Devil often was depicted as *assuming* the form of a man, or a serpent, or a horned humanoid, or whatever. So the form of a woman would roughly be on equal footing." CreationDate="2018-04-28T09:04:52.983" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="6090" PostId="1870" Score="0" Text="Are you looking for a specific mythology?" CreationDate="2016-08-11T15:14:03.617" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6091" PostId="1870" Score="0" Text="&quot;Wuk Ognezmij, the Fiery SnakeWolf - in slavic mythology the hero,&quot; https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=5310.0 ........... Ok.........." CreationDate="2016-08-11T15:17:17.197" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6094" PostId="1870" Score="0" Text="No specific mythology,  just curious." CreationDate="2016-08-11T18:05:06.873" UserId="264" />
  <row Id="6155" PostId="1873" Score="0" Text="Great question!  I was similarly frustrated looking for Three Kingdoms maps." CreationDate="2016-08-24T14:12:47.037" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6089" PostId="1876" Score="0" Text="But this is Ramses, not Khaemweset, or Setne" CreationDate="2016-08-11T15:11:04.163" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6093" PostId="1876" Score="0" Text="Yeah.... you might want to add that to ur answer then" CreationDate="2016-08-11T15:39:52.310" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6154" PostId="1878" Score="0" Text="The myth of the foundation of Dodona as an oracular site comes from Herotodus. [You can read a direct translation here.](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hdt.%202.57&amp;lang=original)&#xA;&#xA;[This article is also quite comprehensive](http://www.ancient.eu/Dodona/) and devotes several paragraphs to the subject of the oracle." CreationDate="2016-08-24T14:09:47.757" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6102" PostId="1879" Score="0" Text="Are the words &quot;thought&quot; and &quot;memory&quot; rendered specifically in the transcriptions / tellings? Are there other words besides those?  e.g. two ravens = thought + memory.  Huginn == memory, which 'maybe will not return'?" CreationDate="2016-08-12T19:32:31.650" UserId="810" />
  <row Id="6109" PostId="1879" Score="1" Text="@NewAlexandria : It's my understanding that their names are derived from those words, but close enough to know that's what they mean. Some believe that they were metaphors for a shamanic journey, which ties nicely into Odin caring more for Muninn, since he would have been a lot more worried about losing his mind than his memory of the journey (Lindow, _Norse Mythology: A Guide to the Gods, Heroes, Rituals, and Beliefs_). This is contested, though, by all the raven symbolism in Norse mythology prior to the first occurrence of their names (Simek,  _Dictionary of Northern Mythology_)." CreationDate="2016-08-15T21:13:37.393" UserId="2838" />
  <row Id="7125" PostId="1879" Score="0" Text="See also http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/419/197 &quot;Why was Odin afraid that his ravens would not return back to him?&quot;" CreationDate="2017-02-28T18:29:14.917" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="6106" PostId="1883" Score="0" Text="I am voting to close this question because it deals more with Christianity or Judaism and as such should be asked on Christianity SE or Mi Yodeya SE." CreationDate="2016-08-15T13:12:53.773" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="6107" PostId="1883" Score="3" Text="But this deals with the specific mythology of Christianity or Judaism. It doesn't deal with the specific *religious* parts of the abrahamic faiths" CreationDate="2016-08-15T14:00:14.260" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6108" PostId="1883" Score="5" Text="@KenGraham - Sites aren't mutually exclusive.  This may be on-topic on Christianity.SE (I'd have to take your word for it), but that does *not* make it off-topic here." CreationDate="2016-08-15T15:47:51.597" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="6111" PostId="1883" Score="0" Text="She prefers &quot;Captain,&quot; but &quot;ma'am&quot; is acceptable in a crunch." CreationDate="2016-08-16T09:53:21.953" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6129" PostId="1884" Score="0" Text="Nothing good. Hercules had already killed Theseus' wife earlier in the twelve labours, due to the delusions sent by Hera, seeing as Thesus wasn't freed until the twelfth." CreationDate="2016-08-20T19:24:42.223" UserId="2881" />
  <row Id="6130" PostId="1884" Score="0" Text="Actually, Phaetha and Hyppolytus occurred post his being trapped I believe." CreationDate="2016-08-20T19:27:11.963" UserId="2881" />
  <row Id="6112" PostId="1885" Score="0" Text="That's what I'm hoping; for instances in lesser known texts of the angels referring to God. I know they say The Lord of Hosts in the Bible. Maybe they say something else in some other text, maybe not." CreationDate="2016-08-16T10:33:52.510" UserId="721" />
  <row Id="6120" PostId="1886" Score="5" Text="Wouldn't your idea of paradise be a field of reeds, if everything else you knew of the world was desert? From the average Egyptian's perspective, wouldn't the fertile lands around the Nile feel like heaven on earth? Also, I think you are underestimating the role of the ushabti: the funeral figurines wouldn't just gather food for their deceased master, they'd take care of all manual labour. If the fields of Osiris were indeed infested with mosquitos like the real fields of reeds, it would be the ushabti that'd suffer their bites, not their deceased masters." CreationDate="2016-08-17T10:22:06.997" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6121" PostId="1887" Score="0" Text="I like my primary sources, so use www.theoi.com to get all of your sources. This is more of an extended comment for me." CreationDate="2016-08-17T14:49:18.743" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6151" PostId="1887" Score="0" Text="Wikipedia may actually be more useful per in-line references.  (On Theoi, you need to be prepared to read all of the &quot;Classical Literature Quotes&quot; section and they may not be complete.)  If you want a direct, vetted source, Robert Graves' &quot;The Greek Myths&quot; is an essential part of any Classical Mythology Library, and also incorporates many of [Frazer's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Bough) ideas.  Michael Grant is an excellent contemporary source." CreationDate="2016-08-24T13:41:44.333" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6122" PostId="1889" Score="1" Text="If you include dwarf planets then the count is an awful lot higher than 12!" CreationDate="2016-08-18T08:42:44.977" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="6124" PostId="1889" Score="0" Text="Well if we go classifying all natural satilites as dwarf planets we would have hundreds essentially everything within the oort cloud is locked around our star.." CreationDate="2016-08-18T17:07:13.150" UserId="2877" />
  <row Id="6125" PostId="1889" Score="0" Text="Gibet look at sculptures from across the world like olmecs or Maya they all represent themselves... different features for different regions and sub species of humans I as a Caucasian man have no features of the olmecs nor the Maya.." CreationDate="2016-08-18T17:16:49.113" UserId="2877" />
  <row Id="6131" PostId="1893" Score="0" Text="I am looking for gods based on fertility." CreationDate="2016-08-21T11:26:54.620" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6128" PostId="1895" Score="0" Text="I hope I've correctly understood what your asking, by the way." CreationDate="2016-08-19T17:33:08.227" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="6190" PostId="1896" Score="2" Text="In many popular modern renderings, they fight with anything from swords to machine guns." CreationDate="2016-08-25T19:37:13.677" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6195" PostId="1897" Score="0" Text="There is a Chinese Martial Art known as [Dim Mak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_of_Death) which utilizes a single touch to disable or injure.  [Note: The Wikipedia Entry is extremely hyperbolic, but there are real practitioners of this art, which I suspect formidable, but less lethal than advertised. It's really more to do with exploiting Acupressure points to disable an opponent. The Angel was likely using Dim Mak on Jacob, although joint dislocation usually involves four stiffened fingers as opposed to one.]" CreationDate="2016-08-25T19:43:57.020" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6649" PostId="1897" Score="2" Text="@DukeZhou Unless you have evidence that Dim Mak was in use at the time and place this bible passage is written, it is epistemologically risky to claim that this bible passage represents Dim Mak. If your comment was an answer it would be factually inaccurate." CreationDate="2016-12-13T18:26:35.543" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6654" PostId="1897" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet I accept your critique.  Full disclosure, I was suggesting the angel used Dim Mak in jest, but I do think it's relevant that there does exist a martial art that focuses on such a technique." CreationDate="2016-12-13T20:14:02.073" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6666" PostId="1897" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou In retrospect I should have worded that comment differently. I wasn't trying to rebuke you, but to warn a beginner reading your comment who might interpret it as claiming that the angel did use Dim Mak. I think Gibert's comment does a good job explaining the pros and cons of such comments. (reposting this comment: my apologies to Gibert for spelling Gibert's name incorrectly)." CreationDate="2016-12-13T21:37:23.160" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6133" PostId="1902" Score="0" Text="Ouranos was killed by Kronos... You sure about that?" CreationDate="2016-08-22T04:50:52.687" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="6137" PostId="1902" Score="1" Text="Yeah, according to what I'm seeing on Theoi, Kronos overthrew Ouranos and castrated him, but didn't *kill* him. http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Ouranos.html" CreationDate="2016-08-22T10:23:11.297" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6139" PostId="1902" Score="0" Text="I realize the answer to the question. oops" CreationDate="2016-08-22T21:35:21.470" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6141" PostId="1902" Score="0" Text="Why would the sky collapse when Ouranos was castrated?" CreationDate="2016-08-23T09:25:09.420" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6142" PostId="1902" Score="2" Text="@Yannis I suppose it would depend what part of Ouranos the sky was balanced on..." CreationDate="2016-08-23T11:13:45.057" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6148" PostId="1902" Score="0" Text="I'd be a little wary of theoi.com.  From their site: &quot;castrated Ouranos with an adamantine sickle&quot;.  It is actually a flint sickle." CreationDate="2016-08-24T13:12:54.653" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6160" PostId="1902" Score="1" Text="@cybermike - Some translations of Hesiod seem to use flint, but it looks like the word &quot;ἀδάμαντος&quot; is used there, which would *seem* to point to &quot;adamant&quot; being valid.  Why isn't it?" CreationDate="2016-08-24T20:46:44.133" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="6162" PostId="1902" Score="1" Text="The argument would be because it is euphemistic (such is the case with several archaic words). Now that you mention it though, I do recall the term in Hesiod you are referring to, so your point is fair." CreationDate="2016-08-24T21:10:53.710" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6163" PostId="1902" Score="1" Text="There are other classical references to castration by use of a flint sickle, for instance certain cults of Artemis, but now I'm thinking I should go back and look at what terms specifically are used in those referents, as it's been a while since I've researched this particular topic." CreationDate="2016-08-24T21:12:57.527" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6166" PostId="1902" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon in terms of my personal bias, it probably comes from the fact that most people nowadays, hearing &quot;admantine&quot;, will think it's referring to the metal used in Wolverine's skeleton and claws. (Not that I have anything against W, but it's a different tradition.) The Titans are supposed to be primitive, so I'm wary the idea of a metal sickle. The term makes more sense with Aeschylus, for example, where Hephaestus is a character.  I personally love the term, [&quot;Thou hast made me, shall they work decay?&quot;](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/44113)." CreationDate="2016-08-24T23:13:51.400" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6135" PostId="1903" Score="4" Text="Would it be possible to give us an example of a story where a witch got burned from coming into contact with water?" CreationDate="2016-08-22T07:56:00.187" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6138" PostId="1903" Score="7" Text="And *The Wizard of Oz* doesn't count. :)" CreationDate="2016-08-22T10:23:46.117" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6144" PostId="1903" Score="1" Text="It is an invention from wizard of Oz combining the floating on water and the burning at the stake. Possibly combining the precaution of sprinkling holy water on doors to keep away witches." CreationDate="2016-08-23T13:10:11.117" UserId="1294" />
  <row Id="6224" PostId="1903" Score="0" Text="i think it is just bad logic 1- holy water burns evil beings, 2- whitches are evil 3- holy water is made of water, 4- water burns witches" CreationDate="2016-08-27T05:41:32.847" UserId="123" />
  <row Id="6153" PostId="1906" Score="0" Text="Vikings were all Norsemen, but not all Norsemen were Vikings.  (See @solsdottir's answer.)" CreationDate="2016-08-24T13:50:06.643" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6145" PostId="1907" Score="1" Text="haha. I never thought of answering this way--the question is a little ambiguous. In light of that ambiguity, this is probably a good answer!  (PS nice Ragnar Lothrbrok reference.  I loved the way they presented him with Rollo and Floki as an Odin/Thor/Loki triad.)" CreationDate="2016-08-24T02:09:37.910" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6146" PostId="1907" Score="0" Text="@Iter Ator Odin is a fairly terrifying figure--ruthless, bloodthirsty, and often quite treacherous. He was not considered to be beloved of the common folk." CreationDate="2016-08-24T02:16:48.147" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6165" PostId="1907" Score="1" Text="Yes, you could see why they would prefer Thor or Frey. I enjoyed the Odin/Thor/Loki bit of Vikings, too." CreationDate="2016-08-24T21:53:28.887" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="7654" PostId="1908" Score="0" Text="Should be noted that Snorri Sturluson was a Christian and may or may not have been influenced by Christian philosophical ideas of his time. Though no doubt he does provides good insight into Norse mythology." CreationDate="2017-05-31T16:08:31.740" UserId="3848" />
  <row Id="6149" PostId="1909" Score="0" Text="I may avoid answering mythology questions in the future if people are going to vote me down for explaining things. (I do have a degree in this field.)" CreationDate="2016-08-24T13:15:03.783" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6150" PostId="1909" Score="0" Text="someone probably downvoted it because they didn't think it was not *really* an answer. I gave it an upvote, because i thought it was interesting" CreationDate="2016-08-24T13:33:24.907" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6152" PostId="1909" Score="0" Text="Yeah lol.  It was sort of a weird question, but a good one.  I noticed a reference (I forget where now) someone made between Ouranos and the Egyptian Nut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_(goddess) re: &quot;She was seen as a star-covered nude woman arching over the earth&quot;. I didn't have time to review the relationship, so I omitted that part in the formal answer." CreationDate="2016-08-24T13:46:27.557" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6157" PostId="1909" Score="0" Text="(I do notice that many people on Stack are extraordinarily literally minded, possibly because they are techs. However, many of the issues raised in the Humanities communities are sort of fuzzy, and often there is not s direct answer. In other words, on subjects such as this, providing context is actually the only legitimate answer.)" CreationDate="2016-08-24T14:27:03.480" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6161" PostId="1909" Score="0" Text="The conclusion that time is a function of distance which requires matter and space.  I don't really follow there." CreationDate="2016-08-24T20:57:09.397" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="6164" PostId="1909" Score="2" Text="(This is sort of undercut by the thermodynamic conception of time, but) Thomas Mann explains it better than I ever could:  https://librariesproject.wordpress.com/2015/02/12/is-time-a-function-of-space-or-vice-versa/" CreationDate="2016-08-24T21:20:47.260" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6197" PostId="1909" Score="0" Text="The etymological connection between Kronos (the god) and khronos (time) has only been hypothesized and never confirmed.  The confusion between the Greek /k/ and /kh/ tends to be relatively late (Hellenistic), but the difference between the two words and concepts goes back at least before Homer." CreationDate="2016-08-25T20:16:12.167" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="6198" PostId="1909" Score="0" Text="@Peter Can you link?  (I only ask because my Ancient Greek teacher had a frighteningly strong grasp of Linear B and Indo-European roots. He would have said they were cognate.)  Of course it not an exact science..." CreationDate="2016-08-25T20:31:01.610" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6199" PostId="1909" Score="0" Text="I can't cite evidence to establish what isn't there.  No major Greek lexicon provides a common etymon for the two words.  The late confusion is noted in all, but it seems to be no more than a folk-etymology. (Folk-etymologies serve their own purpose, but not to make a point like that above.)" CreationDate="2016-08-25T20:35:21.310" UserId="565" />
  <row Id="6200" PostId="1909" Score="0" Text="Noted and answer is modified to reflect @Peter's point." CreationDate="2016-08-25T20:50:31.457" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6175" PostId="1911" Score="0" Text="My sense has always been that back in prehistory there was a single ginormous flood event that was so massive it imprinted itself on every surviving human culture, and was written into many mythologies. I find your colonization theory intriguing, but I haven't heard anything in that direction myself either." CreationDate="2016-08-25T09:57:31.860" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="7622" PostId="1911" Score="0" Text="The closest to my maritime seafaring interpretation I found so far is a book called &quot;Eden in the East&quot; by Stephen Oppenheimer. He postulates a drowned continent in south east asia that was early populated. The flooding of the continent due to glacial melting after ice age resulted in lots of migrations from there to all over the world, taking flood myths with them. Interesting book that even contains lots of sources." CreationDate="2017-05-21T13:52:35.677" UserId="2897" />
  <row Id="12324" PostId="1911" Score="0" Text="@Gibet is synthesizing an interpretation, not personally insofar many believe that was how the tablet began, but the beginning is missing and only interpolated from later texts." CreationDate="2020-01-31T23:40:41.793" UserId="6645" />
  <row Id="6174" PostId="1912" Score="0" Text="Is the Norse World-Serpent a god? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6rmungandr" CreationDate="2016-08-25T09:55:08.077" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6176" PostId="1912" Score="4" Text="Jörmungand was not worshipped, and was not acknowledged as a god in the mythology. He does not even has a realm of influence typically associated with a god (like his sister Hel has). Jörmungand is a cosmological being, but not a god." CreationDate="2016-08-25T11:19:24.167" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6180" PostId="1912" Score="0" Text="The predominance of human-like gods is almost certainly a function of [anthropomorphism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism).  In modern mythologies, Lovecraft's conception of the [Elder Gods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos_deities#Elder_Gods) is as distinctly non-human in almost every case." CreationDate="2016-08-25T14:31:11.097" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6181" PostId="1912" Score="0" Text="Also, of course, [Longcat and Tacgnol](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/002/120/Epic-LongBattle.jpg)!" CreationDate="2016-08-25T14:32:25.167" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6206" PostId="1912" Score="3" Text="&quot;are not counted&quot; - I'm pretty sure that if you have an elephant head or 4 arms you are a different species than a human." CreationDate="2016-08-25T23:58:56.273" UserId="2916" />
  <row Id="6209" PostId="1912" Score="0" Text="@Tymski I meant that I was searching for gods that are totally animals/mythical creatures." CreationDate="2016-08-26T05:57:35.233" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6212" PostId="1912" Score="2" Text="A god is, by definition, not human, but you seem to be asking about what gods are said to *look* like. A god with the head of an animal and the body of a human would still qualify as being a mythical creature wouldn't they? The Jewish and Christian religions have a God whose appearance is unknown - does that count?" CreationDate="2016-08-26T06:17:45.407" UserId="2921" />
  <row Id="6216" PostId="1912" Score="0" Text="@nnnnnn I think that I have not posted my question clearly.I am asking for gods who look like animals/mythical creatures.For e.g.,my example on Ryujin.If my question is really unclear,can somebody please help me edit it?" CreationDate="2016-08-26T14:37:50.427" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6233" PostId="1912" Score="2" Text="&quot;Species&quot; is totally the wrong word." CreationDate="2016-08-27T21:56:11.573" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="6179" PostId="1914" Score="2" Text="@K Vickneshvara This is a great question!  For context, I was taught that the entire cycle of Greek Mythology can, in some sense, be taken as a suppression of the feminine. There is an argument that that is merely post-modern, feminist interpretation, but one has only to analyze works such as the [Orestia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oresteia) to see the truth of it. The idea that the Orestia is an account of the lifting of the curse on the House of Atreus is only the literal summary of the plot. The pacification of the Furies is a far more profound aspect of the cycle." CreationDate="2016-08-25T14:17:53.253" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6210" PostId="1915" Score="0" Text="The first 4 creatures mentioned under the &quot;in China&quot; part are not actually gods.They are actually mythical creatures." CreationDate="2016-08-26T06:09:20.033" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6211" PostId="1915" Score="0" Text="Also,could you provide some good links on Hun Jiang Jun.P.S., isn't the Apis Bull just a bull considered a cow possessed by Osiris?It isn't technically a god,right?" CreationDate="2016-08-26T06:11:48.700" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6214" PostId="1915" Score="0" Text="It's an interesting question about the Apis Bull. These other Bovine powers are probably also not quite gods: the Bull of Heaven from Gilgamesh, the Bull Demon King from Journey to the West, Ymir's Auðumbla, Shiva's Nandi, and Io." CreationDate="2016-08-26T08:12:50.833" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6292" PostId="1916" Score="0" Text="When I came to look into your suggested book and it contains clues to colonization interpretation I will accept the answer.&#xA;&#xA;btw: I know of lots of the other stories I just used the most common one to describe my idea =)" CreationDate="2016-09-07T08:50:23.683" UserId="2897" />
  <row Id="6293" PostId="1916" Score="0" Text="@xaedes Have you actually read the book yet? Or are you saying that you will read the book in the future?" CreationDate="2016-09-07T14:31:11.237" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6295" PostId="1916" Score="0" Text="I couldnt grab a copy of it yet! Ordered it, but due to global shipping it will arrive not until the end of the month. If someone with the book can tell me whether my non-literal interpretation is somehow included I could mark the answer as accepted. Otherwise it will take some time^^ Btw, the author is correctly called &quot;Alan Dundes&quot;" CreationDate="2016-09-07T19:20:34.950" UserId="2897" />
  <row Id="6296" PostId="1916" Score="0" Text="@xaedes what if the book argues *against* your non-literal interpretation? In fact, I would be shocked if the book offers any evidence to support your theory." CreationDate="2016-09-07T20:23:39.107" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6300" PostId="1916" Score="0" Text="then it wouldn't really answer my question" CreationDate="2016-09-08T13:24:04.313" UserId="2897" />
  <row Id="6301" PostId="1916" Score="0" Text="@xaedes just curious: do you think it's possible that your theory is incorrect? What evidence would you need to convince yourself that your theory is incorrect?" CreationDate="2016-09-08T14:22:37.900" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6304" PostId="1916" Score="0" Text="it is an interpretation that is very obvious to me. I dont necessarily want to turn in it into an historical fact or scientific valid theory. But I can't be the only one that draws similar conclusions I did. I dont concern myself too much to prove it wrong; but I look for clues and others that interprete it similar. If it turns out that I REALLY am the only one that came up with this interpretation (then my original question here can't be answered) I will someday put everything together and put it out in the world." CreationDate="2016-09-08T16:46:36.717" UserId="2897" />
  <row Id="6205" PostId="1917" Score="1" Text="The answer states that there doesn't appear to be any such tradition to speak of (seems correct, as far as I can tell), and proposes a mythic provenance of the phenomenon seen in the Wizard of Oz (best guess so far as to where this is coming from).  Seems pretty good to me." CreationDate="2016-08-25T22:57:40.880" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="14358" PostId="1917" Score="0" Text="Frank Baum explained that the wicked witch had no blood because her wickedness had dried her up. So, my explanation is that the witch was so dried up that when the water hit her, it broke down her molecules, thus making her melt into a puddle." CreationDate="2021-03-20T06:58:43.373" UserId="7829" />
  <row Id="6213" PostId="1919" Score="1" Text="Wasn't the question&#xA;&#xA;&quot;are any gods that are a different species than humans&quot;&#xA;&#xA;?" CreationDate="2016-08-26T06:36:05.383" UserId="2903" />
  <row Id="6227" PostId="1919" Score="0" Text="Yes. Are there any gods who are in a different species than humans?" CreationDate="2016-08-27T13:10:31.410" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8918" PostId="1919" Score="0" Text="And there is dobt whether FSM is god, or just The Monster." CreationDate="2018-02-14T21:37:56.817" UserId="4709" />
  <row Id="10822" PostId="1919" Score="0" Text="@abukaj, no doubts: the FSM indeed created the Universe, but since he was drunk the creation was not perfect..." CreationDate="2018-08-31T10:58:47.207" UserId="2903" />
  <row Id="10823" PostId="1919" Score="0" Text="@Leonardo There is no doubt FSM is The Creator of the Universe. But for me The Creator of the Universe is not equivalent to god." CreationDate="2018-08-31T15:27:45.457" UserId="4709" />
  <row Id="6204" PostId="1920" Score="0" Text="Is λύκος cognate with that stem, though? I don’t seem to see it in the links you sent me. One should always beware of false cognates and folk etymologies that seek to tie everything together neatly." CreationDate="2016-08-25T22:25:55.183" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="6302" PostId="1920" Score="0" Text="@Obie2.0 I can't find any research on it relating to Loki which was largely why I asked this question, but the lack of clarity of the meaning of the name in Old Norse may be an indication his name is borrowed.  Loki is an outsider, a &quot;foreigner&quot; if you will, so it's not an entirely crazy idea. There are certainly parallels between Norse and Greek mythology." CreationDate="2016-09-08T15:28:17.253" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6187" PostId="1923" Score="0" Text="Thanks for providing these additional referents. You make a very good point.  Possibly I should instead be asking &quot;has anyone made a serious study of the correlation between the Indo-European 'lewk' root and Loki?&quot;" CreationDate="2016-08-25T19:06:53.507" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6184" PostId="1924" Score="3" Text="I doubt very muck that Loki's role was ever a small one.  Tricksters are central to many mythological traditions, and Loki is certainly related to pre-Christian tricksters such as Prometheus and probably Hermes. However, even if your thesis is correct, how does this relate to the linguistic root of the name Loki?" CreationDate="2016-08-25T16:16:26.043" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6219" PostId="1924" Score="0" Text="although you make an interesting point in many regards.  For instance, from a Biblical perspective, Loki can be seen as leading Hoder to commit the sin of Cain. From what I glean from the Icelandic sagas, simply killing someone for an imagined slight is not uncharacteristic of many human heroes.  However Loki leads Hoder to commit a &quot;blood sin&quot; against kin. However, this also parallels Orestes' murder of his mother." CreationDate="2016-08-26T20:33:48.773" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6222" PostId="1924" Score="0" Text="It is sort of interesting how the gods, knowing Balder is invincible, decide it would a fun thing to try to kill him." CreationDate="2016-08-26T21:19:08.267" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6207" PostId="1927" Score="0" Text="What you say about consensus view must certainly be valid, and thank you for taking the time to post such a detailed and informative reply. Clearly I am approaching it from the opposite direction, which is to say looking for archetypal parallels and deriving meaning based on that." CreationDate="2016-08-26T01:18:17.377" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6241" PostId="1927" Score="0" Text="When researching the meaning of &quot;Cassandra&quot;, a came across a similar issue. It was suggested to me that this may be an indication that her name is not strictly Greek in origin, but a hybrid. (Cassandra, of course, was not a Hellene.)  It occurs to me that Loki, also an &quot;outsider&quot;, may have a similarly non-strictly-Norse origin." CreationDate="2016-08-29T19:11:26.587" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6223" PostId="1930" Score="0" Text="I was surveying some of source material and there doesn't seem to be anything specific." CreationDate="2016-08-27T01:16:41.833" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6225" PostId="1931" Score="0" Text="Probably vulture as a buzzard couldn't support a human head." CreationDate="2016-08-27T08:47:47.287" UserId="1294" />
  <row Id="6226" PostId="1931" Score="2" Text="You can't apply modern scientific reasoning to a subject like this." CreationDate="2016-08-27T11:35:52.137" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="6230" PostId="1932" Score="0" Text="This answer is more media-based. Can you explain mythologically?" CreationDate="2016-08-27T19:52:18.657" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6231" PostId="1932" Score="0" Text="in some myths the tell about mountain passes where you harpies would swoop down from the air to attack their prey, while other myths tell of sailors being hunted. this means that harpies could hunt near large bodies of water, like oceans or lakes. but Harpies can also be found in mountain ranges. this is parralel to the habitats of certain eagles.&#xA;I hope this answer is more to your taste" CreationDate="2016-08-27T20:04:10.710" UserId="2926" />
  <row Id="6232" PostId="1932" Score="0" Text="Like, you can hit the edit button and stuff to edit it." CreationDate="2016-08-27T21:16:47.687" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6234" PostId="1933" Score="0" Text="I don't really think anyone has ever explored this. Maybe in modern fiction, but back then... Really interesting thought though." CreationDate="2016-08-28T06:37:44.797" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="6235" PostId="1933" Score="6" Text="I'm pretty confident there is no information on this.  [Anatomical knowledge in Greek antiquity was rather limited](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/1681/why-was-dissection-taboo-in-greek-antiquity).  The sort of elementary physiological knowledge we all take for granted wouldn't be known to most (or *any*, in some cases) ancient Greeks." CreationDate="2016-08-28T07:36:31.750" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="6238" PostId="1933" Score="2" Text="Wibbly-wobbly magicky-wagicky... stuff." CreationDate="2016-08-28T18:47:25.990" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6239" PostId="1933" Score="1" Text="@LaurenIpsum Timey-wimey" CreationDate="2016-08-28T19:50:54.657" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6240" PostId="1933" Score="0" Text="I think there is a worldbuilding.se question about this." CreationDate="2016-08-28T21:20:19.667" UserId="1294" />
  <row Id="6271" PostId="1933" Score="0" Text="@Bellerophon http://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/14906/centaur-anatomy-help" CreationDate="2016-09-02T08:14:37.063" UserId="1455" />
  <row Id="8136" PostId="1933" Score="1" Text="@LaurenIpsum : Magicky-wagicky x-D !" CreationDate="2017-08-24T21:54:33.430" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6347" PostId="1936" Score="0" Text="The answer to this question depends on how you define “mythical” creatures. There are those who would argue that the god of the three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) is a mythical creature, like Zeus and Thor and Vishnu and company. There are also those who would argue that Abraham and Moses (both mentioned frequently in the Qur’an) are mythical beings, and some would say the same about Jesus and Muhammad (about both of whom we have no contemporary historical records and whose life-stories are a mixed bag of miracle stories). The Qur’an mentions jinn, which many would con" CreationDate="2016-09-05T12:11:22.017" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="6348" PostId="1936" Score="0" Text="Also, define &quot;mythical creature&quot;. A lot of mythical creatures that we think of as part of Christian tradition, such as unicorns, have little or nothing to do with the the Bible. They were already-exisiting ideas that were added to the Christian mythos. (The unicorn became a symbol of Christ, for example.) So a better way to ask the question would be to ask about mythical creatures that are part of the same culture as Islam." CreationDate="2016-09-15T23:34:45.617" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="6283" PostId="1937" Score="1" Text="I think the question was about Islam (the religion), not about Arabo/Persian folklore as found in the &quot;Arabian Nights&quot;." CreationDate="2016-09-05T11:00:10.863" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="11495" PostId="1942" Score="0" Text="Inari has either 3 or 5 forms depending on which of the ancient texts you read. The three forms are a young beautiful woman, an old man and a genderless one." CreationDate="2019-04-17T19:15:12.303" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="6245" PostId="1944" Score="1" Text="I suppose I can write an answer when I have time. But to be honest, I would be more interested in questions like &quot;why do the Aztecs have five 'suns', and not six or four&quot;. So if you have any questions about the symbolism/meaning of the Mesoamerican calendar, I encourage you to ask them!" CreationDate="2016-08-31T01:29:41.773" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6246" PostId="1944" Score="0" Text="Also, what's your source for the 3113 BCE date (just curious -- knowing this gives me a better idea of where you're coming from with this question)." CreationDate="2016-08-31T01:31:01.520" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6247" PostId="1944" Score="0" Text="Hamlet, believe me, you don't know where I'm coming :-) If 3113 BCE is wrong, I would like to know where it's possible to find correct information." CreationDate="2016-08-31T07:23:38.130" UserId="2943" />
  <row Id="6248" PostId="1944" Score="0" Text="From 3113 BCE? &gt;:)" CreationDate="2016-08-31T12:55:06.970" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6249" PostId="1946" Score="0" Text="Translation please?" CreationDate="2016-08-31T21:04:14.563" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6260" PostId="1946" Score="0" Text="All of Jules Verne's works include allusions to real authors.  *Journey To The Centre Of The Earth* makes several references to Humphrey Davy for example.  This is a literary device to give his novels some illusion of scientific basis.  So, although this is a good general question, I wouldn't put too much reliance on the authenticity of the specific manuscript." CreationDate="2016-09-01T11:10:40.390" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="6268" PostId="1948" Score="0" Text="In which language Aramaic or Hebrew?" CreationDate="2016-09-01T22:12:43.677" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="6254" PostId="1949" Score="0" Text="Thank you. I was reading about Ziusudra the last king of Sumeria before the flood took place. Hence the awaken curiosity." CreationDate="2016-08-31T23:59:56.140" UserId="2951" />
  <row Id="6255" PostId="1949" Score="0" Text="@user2951 Also check out the Greek [ἰχθύς](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys) which should be of some interest." CreationDate="2016-09-01T00:01:27.433" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6264" PostId="1949" Score="0" Text="And what about [Zarathustra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster)?" CreationDate="2016-09-01T19:52:45.737" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6258" PostId="1950" Score="1" Text="true, but those examples you just mentiod do make anatomical sense" CreationDate="2016-09-01T09:25:29.930" UserId="2926" />
  <row Id="6259" PostId="1950" Score="3" Text="@SamHendriks ...no, no they don't. Birds have to have hollow bones and be as light as possible for flight. Horses are enormously heavy and have hooves. Felines have retractable claws. The other mythological creatures cited may not have duplicated structures like the centaur, but they are all physiological impossibilities." CreationDate="2016-09-01T10:05:47.750" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6261" PostId="1951" Score="0" Text="Can you recommend an English translation of the Sturlunga saga?" CreationDate="2016-09-01T14:07:44.607" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6270" PostId="1951" Score="0" Text="@cybermike Sorry, but I can't. I found a Danish translation online after I had seen a reference to the episode to see what it said: http://heimskringla.no/wiki/Sturlunga_Saga_(dansk) I also found a link to an English translation, but was not able to access it: http://sagnanet.is/saganet/?MIval=/SinglePage&amp;Manuscript=100286&amp;Page=11&amp;language=english" CreationDate="2016-09-02T07:59:58.997" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6278" PostId="1951" Score="0" Text="This is [an older translation](https://archive.org/stream/sturlungasagainc01aronuoft/sturlungasagainc01aronuoft_djvu.txt), but it is in English." CreationDate="2016-09-03T20:09:57.410" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="6272" PostId="1952" Score="0" Text="Excellent answer. (Sort of puts mine to shame;) A most salient point: &quot;It depends on which language we're talking about. 1st-century A.D. Palestine was a multicultural, multilingual location (not much unlike the same region is at present day)&quot;." CreationDate="2016-09-02T15:56:30.873" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6276" PostId="1952" Score="0" Text="Why, thank you. Your answer is concise, precise and straight to the point(s), though :)" CreationDate="2016-09-03T06:15:43.993" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6279" PostId="1955" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the nod.  Great little factiod re Fimbulwinter!" CreationDate="2016-09-03T21:59:56.007" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14580" PostId="1956" Score="0" Text="I believe that was meant to be &quot;she did not want for Fólkvangr.&quot;" CreationDate="2021-08-21T02:44:50.200" UserId="8486" />
  <row Id="6329" PostId="1958" Score="0" Text="There is a debate whether she is a demon or a powerfull female Godess who was vilified by Hebraic partriarchal society, also being mentioned in Gilgamesh's epic doesn't mean she doesn't predate Sumer." CreationDate="2016-09-11T21:48:30.570" UserId="123" />
  <row Id="6307" PostId="1971" Score="2" Text="I wish I knew more about this fascinating tradition.  As a referent, I can tell you that 108 is a significant number in Chinese folklore, although it's unclear to what extent the number predates the [Water Margin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_Stars_of_Destiny). In Chinese tradition, the number 8 is lucky because the word sounds like the word for prosperity." CreationDate="2016-09-08T17:58:36.790" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6310" PostId="1971" Score="1" Text="@cybermike Fascinating indeed. You may be interested in taking a look at the Yoruba texts on Sacred Texts: http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/index.htm#wc_africa" CreationDate="2016-09-10T14:01:13.103" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6328" PostId="1971" Score="1" Text="The Hebraic religions also have an un-numerable numbers for the names of God. I think the numbers are just there to represent &quot;a lot&quot; or &quot;infinity&quot; like here for the (N+1) formula." CreationDate="2016-09-11T21:34:05.647" UserId="123" />
  <row Id="11919" PostId="1973" Score="1" Text="Here is a similar question :-) - https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/28639/where-does-the-story-of-world-tree-or-knowledge-tree-come-in-hindu-scripture" CreationDate="2019-09-19T17:56:34.053" UserId="6339" />
  <row Id="6311" PostId="1974" Score="2" Text="That's really interesting. Pherecydes is sometimes interpreted as having adapted Phoenician &amp; Near Eastern cosmology &amp; mythology for a Hellenic framework." CreationDate="2016-09-10T16:21:52.320" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6314" PostId="1974" Score="1" Text="On [a lighter note](https://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/70011743.jpg) 0:)" CreationDate="2016-09-11T16:52:13.130" UserId="928" />
  <row Id="6308" PostId="1975" Score="0" Text="From the wikipedia page you link (and in particular the section &quot;History of Gesar studies&quot;) it's not entirely clear to me that there even exists an english translation (free or not) of the Mongolian texts. They do however link (in the section &quot;external links&quot;) to [this translation](https://web.archive.org/web/20070629041814/www.buryatmongol.com/halaa1.html) (via waybackmachine) of the Buryat version." CreationDate="2016-09-10T07:43:42.017" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="6309" PostId="1975" Score="0" Text="@plannapus - the one I mentioned (Neel) is, I think, of Tibetian version." CreationDate="2016-09-10T12:04:01.787" UserId="215" />
  <row Id="6412" PostId="1976" Score="0" Text="Leonard Nimoy can tell you everything you need to know about the Bermuda Triangle from his old show [&quot;In Search Of&quot;](https://youtu.be/4XyDNJHJtCE)" CreationDate="2016-09-28T17:01:43.680" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6337" PostId="1977" Score="1" Text="Lets use our old &quot;friend&quot; Greekmythology.com! http://www.greekmythology.com/pictures/Myths/Figures/153322/planetnik/" CreationDate="2016-09-12T23:52:24.653" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6340" PostId="1977" Score="5" Text="just another damn way to demote poor Pluto. No respect, I tell you." CreationDate="2016-09-13T09:57:03.423" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6341" PostId="1977" Score="2" Text="@bleh The english description there is taken from a site called &quot;f--kyeahstrangemythology&quot;. Not entirely sure how trustworthy the information is..." CreationDate="2016-09-13T09:59:05.027" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6319" PostId="1979" Score="0" Text="*I knew modern arts like photography or cinema would be attributed by extension to a &quot;visual arts&quot; muse* huh? The ancient greeks didn't have photography or cinema." CreationDate="2016-09-11T20:33:44.223" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6324" PostId="1979" Score="0" Text="@Reed then why are you mentioning photography/cinema in a question about ancient greek mythology?" CreationDate="2016-09-11T21:13:31.950" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6342" PostId="1979" Score="0" Text="Modern arts always get folded into ancient categories, like cinema being the 7th Art. That's why i wrote &quot;attributed by extension&quot;" CreationDate="2016-09-13T20:37:57.110" UserId="123" />
  <row Id="6320" PostId="1980" Score="0" Text="+1 for Lucian's True History, but i am certain this is not it." CreationDate="2016-09-11T20:34:34.097" UserId="123" />
  <row Id="6321" PostId="1980" Score="0" Text="@Reed Could you please update your question to explain why exactly  True History isn't the tale you are looking for? It fits all your requirements, even the vague one about a Middle Eastern origin." CreationDate="2016-09-11T20:36:28.220" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6331" PostId="1982" Score="1" Text="+1 I hope you don't mind: i added links to the texts you're mentioning." CreationDate="2016-09-12T08:59:09.490" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="6333" PostId="1983" Score="0" Text="Well, folktales seem to be on-topic here, and these crazy conspiracy theories and hoaxes tend to shade into that realm." CreationDate="2016-09-12T14:44:34.990" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="6338" PostId="1983" Score="1" Text="Yes well, if this ever gets moved to Skeptics Stack  Exchange I'll upvote it." CreationDate="2016-09-12T23:54:49.027" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="6336" PostId="1985" Score="0" Text="i hadn't though about patron gods, but is it the same? the muses, at least in a platoniistic view, where conduits to the divine, they didn't inspire but possesse the artists. The artist was no the creator, but the vehicule through which gods expressed temselves via muses." CreationDate="2016-09-12T22:54:09.167" UserId="123" />
  <row Id="6339" PostId="1986" Score="0" Text="Off the top of my head, the Horai (as they guarded the gates of Olympus)." CreationDate="2016-09-13T08:40:19.550" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6381" PostId="1991" Score="2" Text="To corroborate @solsdottir's answer, Poseidon famously created a spring in Athens as his entry in the contest to get the city named after him.  (He lost the contest to Athena, who planted an olive tree (some say she created the olive tree, others that she merely domesticated it.)" CreationDate="2016-09-26T19:53:08.650" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6349" PostId="1995" Score="0" Text="Are you sure the gods didn't let the whole golden apple situation fester a few years before finally giving up and calling in a mortal to make up their minds for them? That's what dysfunctional families do.  Also remember Helen was the bait...Achilles was one of her suitors; that's why he was obliged to join the war against Troy." CreationDate="2016-09-17T08:30:28.933" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="6350" PostId="1995" Score="4" Text="@Spencer Achilles was not one of Helen's suitors. If memory serves, Hesiod mentions he was too young to be a suitor. As for when the Judgement of Paris happened, in Apollodorus version it seems like it was immediately after Eris threw the apple: http://www.theoi.com/Text/ApollodorusE.html (search for E.3.2)" CreationDate="2016-09-17T08:44:21.053" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6411" PostId="1996" Score="0" Text="There are definitely nuances distinct to each culture, and associations, such as with the Sun, changed over time. There are also a number of localized versiona of Apollo in Ancient Greece. When I get a chance, I'll compare the Latin with the Greek sources and get you more specifics. At a high level, I seem to recall that Apollo was more central in the Roman pantheon, and more highly regarded. By contrast, the gods in Greek myths are not very dignified--Homer made a point of juxtaposing their pettiness against the dignity of human beings, with Hector as the prime exemplar." CreationDate="2016-09-28T16:59:10.047" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11773" PostId="1996" Score="0" Text="All the major 12 Roman Gods are the Greek Gods, renamed. [The Roman Gods still live in Olympus, their authentic home in Greece](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/740/where-did-the-roman-gods-live)." CreationDate="2019-07-31T16:52:18.767" UserId="5594" />
  <row Id="6356" PostId="1997" Score="2" Text="Phoebus is a Greek name, too, and Apollo is called such in Greek as well. Same with Dionysus and Bacchus  or Pallas and Athena — all are Greek names." CreationDate="2016-09-20T07:56:31.123" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6358" PostId="1997" Score="0" Text="So, yes? (It's a yes/no question...)" CreationDate="2016-09-20T11:13:40.990" UserId="1455" />
  <row Id="6359" PostId="1997" Score="0" Text="@arboviral Yes. Apollo is Apollo but was called both Apollo and Phoebus by the Romans." CreationDate="2016-09-20T11:26:16.553" UserId="2986" />
  <row Id="6360" PostId="1997" Score="0" Text="I realise that; I was suggesting you edit it into the answer. I already upvoted, but strictly speaking the way your answer is written currently it doesn't actually answer the question." CreationDate="2016-09-20T13:47:42.160" UserId="1455" />
  <row Id="11774" PostId="1997" Score="0" Text="That answers misleads the reader to believe that not all of the 12 Roman Gods were the 12 Olympian Gods renamed." CreationDate="2019-07-31T16:53:25.613" UserId="5594" />
  <row Id="6362" PostId="2002" Score="1" Text="Supposedly, it's Middle English: from Old French grifoun, based on late Latin gryphus, via Latin from Greek grups, grup-, meaning, &quot;curved&quot;. so I'd say that it's actually the way the word has evolved over time. It probably became Gryphon first, then Griffon as a more modern spelling, and then Griffin from there. Of course I don't have any direct evidence for this, which is why this is just a comment and not an answer, but it makes the most sense to me and that's what I choose to believe." CreationDate="2016-09-23T15:03:05.183" UserId="2739" />
  <row Id="6363" PostId="2004" Score="3" Text="I assume it is because Cassandra was speaking a true fact rather than a prophecy about the future." CreationDate="2016-09-24T21:56:19.237" UserId="1294" />
  <row Id="6366" PostId="2004" Score="0" Text="Wasn't her warning that there are soldiers hidden inside the Trojan Horse also speaking a true fact rather than a prophecy @Bellerophon? And a much easier fact to verify than Paris identity (who no one had seen since he was an infant)." CreationDate="2016-09-24T22:44:03.360" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6375" PostId="2004" Score="0" Text="@Bellerophon you should make that into an answer. *Prophecy* is about things *which are going to happen.* If she had said &quot;My brother Paris will walk into the room,&quot; that's a prophecy. But to uncover the identity (given at birth) of the man standing next to her isn't *going* to happen; it already *has* happened. He is who he is." CreationDate="2016-09-25T10:51:43.150" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6376" PostId="2004" Score="0" Text="@Yannis What where the exact words of her warning?" CreationDate="2016-09-25T16:57:59.243" UserId="1294" />
  <row Id="6377" PostId="2004" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum I would but Yannis has raised a good point above and I would like to think of a way to address that in any answer I post." CreationDate="2016-09-25T16:58:33.927" UserId="1294" />
  <row Id="6368" PostId="2006" Score="2" Text="I'm looking for scholarly references that support the notion that from the creation of the Yuga system it was always considered to the Kali Yuga.  I certainly agree that according to the dating of Western Indologists, the texts that mention the Yuga system were composed long after the traditional 3102 BC start date of the Kali Yuga.  But that doesn't rule out the possibility that there was a time at some point in the past when people thought they were living in the Dwapara Yuga, and then later on they thought it was the Kali Yuga but they backdated the start of the Kali Yuga." CreationDate="2016-09-24T23:56:23.017" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="6369" PostId="2006" Score="1" Text="I'm also looking for scholarly references that actually support the notion that culture criticism was the impetus for the invention of the Yuga system." CreationDate="2016-09-25T00:05:10.447" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="6370" PostId="2006" Score="0" Text="Unfortunately, with a lack of any surviving sources from 3102 BCE, we cannot verify that any concept of the yugas existed back then. All texts that we have came well after that time,&#xA;&#xA;However, tales of the Sage Narada tell of him interrupting the journey of the demon Kali when the demon was on his way to Earth. This is told in the Mahabharata. While Western students date this text to the 8th or 9th century BCE, the story is told from the point of view of an author who witnessed the last days of the Dwapara Yuga, the Kurukshetra War, and the departure of Krishna for his heavenly abode." CreationDate="2016-09-25T00:15:28.567" UserId="3023" />
  <row Id="6371" PostId="2006" Score="0" Text="It must also be remembered that not all sources agree that we live in the age of Kali. Some authors argue that we are still in the Dwapara Yuga." CreationDate="2016-09-25T00:20:25.993" UserId="3023" />
  <row Id="6372" PostId="2006" Score="2" Text="I'm not talking about whether Western Indologists believe that the Yuga concept existed in 3102 BC; the answer is obviously no.  But I'm wondering about what they think about possibilities like the following: the people in (say) 1000 BC believed they were living in the Dwapara Yuga, but the people living in 800 BC believed that they were living in the Kali Yuga, and that the Kali Yuga started in 3102 BC.  Do Western Indologists believe that sort of thing, or do they believe that from the moment the Yuga system was invented it was considered the Kali Yuga?" CreationDate="2016-09-25T00:41:27.603" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="6373" PostId="2006" Score="0" Text="@JustinEller Yes, there are some people (followers of Yukteswar) who believe that we are currently living in the Dwapara Yuga, but not the same Dwapara Yuga that the Kurukshetra war took place in.  They think we're already in the next Dwapara Yuga (known as an ascending Dwapara Yuga).  By the way, on a side note I should mention that personally I'm an orthodox Hindu who believes that the Mahabharata and Puranas are 5000-year old texts.  I'm just posting this question out of intellectual curiosity." CreationDate="2016-09-25T00:47:20.610" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="6374" PostId="2006" Score="1" Text="In that case--at least within the context of orthodox Hinduism--ALL of the references that I cited that speak of Kali Yuga are prophecies, not social criticism. &#xA;&#xA;But for aspects of the kali yuga as social critique, you may want to read some of the worls of Rene Guenon: https://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/4603" CreationDate="2016-09-25T01:17:52.300" UserId="3023" />
  <row Id="14476" PostId="2007" Score="1" Text="Medusa lived on a island called Sarpedon. Depending on which of the legends you follow, this is near Turkey. So Montivipera xanthina, which is found in Turkey and Greece, might be the poisonous viper you are pointing at." CreationDate="2021-06-04T17:47:17.533" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="6378" PostId="2008" Score="0" Text="My sense is that &quot;snake as a source of knowledge is a recurring theme&quot;, but more so in Greek religion/ritual than in Greek mythology. That said, I can think of plenty of examples in Greek mythology -- the oracle of delphi being the most obvious. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_worship#Greek_mythology, although I'm not sure if that list is 100% accurate (to be expected bc it's wikipedia)" CreationDate="2016-09-25T23:30:30.357" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6379" PostId="2008" Score="0" Text="Good catch there @Hamlet, however I'm interested in actual snakes, not so much in mythical creatures with serpentine / draconian features like Python. I'll clarify the question." CreationDate="2016-09-26T07:03:14.790" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6387" PostId="2008" Score="0" Text="@Yannis Since you mention Cassandra, I'll bring up Laocoön.  In his story, the snakes are an agent of the suppression of knowledge, sent to discredit his exhortations about the mortal danger of the wooden horse." CreationDate="2016-09-26T20:53:43.423" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6397" PostId="2008" Score="0" Text="@Yannis This distinction between &quot;mythical&quot; monstrous snakes and &quot;actual&quot; snakes may be problematic.  The Greek word from which we derive &quot;Dragon&quot;, δράκων, almost certainly originally merely meant a big snake, such as a python (lowercase p.) Authors like Homer embellished by adding legs, but this should not be taken too seriously.  The word is related to δρακεῖν, &quot;to see&quot;, so this idea of snakes equated with knowledge is directly linked to this &quot;monstrous&quot; form of the animal, and not the little snakes (ὄφις) to which you're restricting the question." CreationDate="2016-09-27T18:04:56.847" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6399" PostId="2008" Score="0" Text="@cybermike Hm, that's all very interesting, and perhaps deserving of a separate question." CreationDate="2016-09-27T18:50:17.623" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6409" PostId="2008" Score="1" Text="Apollodorus does use ὄφεις and ὄφεων, both forms of ὄφις (&quot;ophis&quot;), to refer to Melampus' snakes.  I utilized the Perseus Project lexicons to search for other instances of this word in Classical literature and found no additional mention of snakes representing knowledge. Rather, the predominant usage of serpents is as guardians or instruments of vengeance and divine wrath." CreationDate="2016-09-28T15:16:16.077" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6391" PostId="2010" Score="0" Text="Complete conjecture: Something to do with the salt in the water? Running water?" CreationDate="2016-09-27T09:53:05.823" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6392" PostId="2010" Score="1" Text="@LaurenIpsum Possibly. I've also heard (but couldn't verify) that it might have to do with water being considered purifying in Christian mythology (i.e baptism)." CreationDate="2016-09-27T10:38:54.213" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6416" PostId="2010" Score="0" Text="It's a common belief that salt wards off evil spirits, so placing the bodies on an island surrounded by salt water all the time to entrap them makes sense." CreationDate="2016-10-03T10:06:31.760" UserId="2739" />
  <row Id="6385" PostId="2012" Score="1" Text="The horse thing was actually quite the betrayal on the part of the Greeks. That kind of thing was a pretty common way for a defeated army to: 1. gift the victors and hope they don't come and kill you and 2. appease the gods. By perverting the gift as an invasion method, they not only ruined their credibility on a &quot;global&quot; diplomatic scale, but also risked angering the gods." CreationDate="2016-09-26T20:33:49.860" UserId="2907" />
  <row Id="6386" PostId="2012" Score="0" Text="@Azuaron it's highly probably the Trojan Horse story is not literal, but a metaphor.  For instance, it can stand as a symbol of Poseidon, who originally built the walls of Troy, withdrawing his support of the city." CreationDate="2016-09-26T20:37:05.693" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6388" PostId="2012" Score="0" Text="The point that @Bellerophon did not post it as an answer was because he did not have enough evidence to support his claim. I would suggest importing the quote and pointing it out." CreationDate="2016-09-26T21:59:36.960" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6393" PostId="2012" Score="0" Text="@bleh her curse quite specifically relates to prophecy, so I don't think there's ambiguity." CreationDate="2016-09-27T13:39:29.753" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6394" PostId="2012" Score="0" Text="re your edit: &quot;When Cassandra **prophetically** declared he was her brother, Priam acknowledged him and received him into the palace&quot; - from the quote in the question, also by Hyginus." CreationDate="2016-09-27T14:47:48.293" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6396" PostId="2012" Score="0" Text="Answer amended to address the duplicate use of vaticinor by Hyginus in XCI and XCIII.  Side note: As I recall, there is another time in Euripides where Cassandra, ironically, is believed, but I don't have the source material on hand." CreationDate="2016-09-27T16:22:48.397" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6398" PostId="2012" Score="0" Text="If I'm reading [Apollodorus' version](http://www.theoi.com/Text/Apollodorus3.html) [3.12.5] correctly, Cassandra may not even have been born when the infant Paris was exiled. Thus, she couldn't have known Paris was her brother upon his return, if she didn't have her prophetic powers at the time. In any case, thanks for the time you've invested in this. Although not entirely convinced, I'm now much more open to the possibility that Cassandra's recognition of Paris wasn't an actual prophecy. Or even that this whole thing is nothing more than a plot hole." CreationDate="2016-09-27T18:48:30.163" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6400" PostId="2012" Score="1" Text="@Yannis it's highly likely, but bear in mind that the &quot;cannon&quot; of Classical mythology is comprised almost entirely of later artists riffing on earlier artists.  You're asking a question for which there's no definitive answer, just different takes." CreationDate="2016-09-27T19:40:00.483" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6404" PostId="2012" Score="0" Text="And actually, this is probably a good opportunity to explain that there is no &quot;definitive story&quot; for any of these myths.  There is only, for example, Aeschylus version, Sophocles' version, Euripides' version, etc.  *(The body of work of those three in particular is a conversation over subsequent generations by the greatest dramatic poets of their respective generations.)*  Even myths for which there is only now a single source were probably treated in lost works, and in fact, a portion of the surviving canon of Classical mythology are references to what authors wrote in such lost works." CreationDate="2016-09-27T23:53:43.923" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6408" PostId="2012" Score="1" Text="@Gibet You can't really look at this as a story with a single variation that would imply a plot hole.  Instead, what you have is an array of artists riffing on a theme and story over a period of nearly a thousand years. The introduction of the curse was clearly a brilliant interpolation, if the way it has captured imaginations in the subsequent millennia is any indication." CreationDate="2016-09-28T15:09:41.253" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6413" PostId="2016" Score="2" Text="this is brilliant. I would never have made that connection." CreationDate="2016-09-29T09:42:52.630" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="8443" PostId="2018" Score="1" Text="This is a very interesting idea, but I'm not sure if it worked like that. Asked a [new question](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/3042/4105) to find out!" CreationDate="2017-10-09T08:20:42.947" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="6421" PostId="2021" Score="0" Text="Thank you but I do have a few questions about Benizaiten and the Dragon.Firstly,did Benizaiten actually love the Dragon?If so,why did she let him die?Did the Dragon's spirit inhabit the mountain?" CreationDate="2016-10-07T02:18:22.587" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6425" PostId="2021" Score="0" Text="@K Vickneshvara I wish I could provide you answers to those questions. (I don't know as much as I'd like about Japanese mythology, particularly the Shinto material, but that story was familiar so I decided to do some digging.)" CreationDate="2016-10-07T20:24:28.720" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6427" PostId="2023" Score="0" Text="Thank you for your answer but I have a few questions.Firstly,is it considered wrong/evil to steal someone Yin or Yang during intercourse?Also,is being a prostitiute(like White Peony) looked down upon?In addition to that,is it considered wrong/evil for Lü Dongbin,a sage/immortal,to lust after and eventually make love with White Peony? (I may have made some grammatical errors in this comment)" CreationDate="2016-10-08T01:15:49.147" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6428" PostId="2023" Score="0" Text="And how and why is Nezha immortal after his rebirth?" CreationDate="2016-10-08T01:17:41.157" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6429" PostId="2023" Score="1" Text="How does one become &quot;exceptionally immortal&quot;?" CreationDate="2016-10-08T11:29:46.080" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6433" PostId="2023" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Chinese mythology is different from Western Mythology.  There's really not a huge amount of material and it's widely scattered.  A lot of it resides in folk tales and the oral tradition.  I respectfully, but strongly, disagree with you categorization of Journey as non-canonical and primarily Buddhist.  As I mentioned, it's quite easy to to show that the book is in fact a reconcilement of Buddhist, Taoist and Confucian traditions." CreationDate="2016-10-09T19:10:41.297" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6434" PostId="2023" Score="0" Text="@Lauren Ipsum  I pulled the term &quot;exceptionally immortal&quot; out of the air.  What I was getting at is the idea that, many of these figures are already functionally immortal when they seek additional means to strengthen that condition, with Sun Wukong as perhaps the leading example." CreationDate="2016-10-09T19:12:48.413" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6435" PostId="2023" Score="0" Text="@ K Vickneshvara Sex, in and of itself, is not shunned in Taoism.  In many cases it is embraced, and it does seem fairly common, in legend, to use it as a means of cultivating or stealing power.  (You see that in the obsession of males with learning to have sex without ejaculating, although my understanding in purely medical terms, what is actually happening is the semen is redirected into the bladder.)  Courtesans like White Peony were often romantic figures, often tragic. I suspect the stealing of Lü's &quot;essence&quot;, in her case, is seen as clever and admirable, as opposed to evil." CreationDate="2016-10-09T19:18:22.030" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6437" PostId="2023" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou What about Nezha?" CreationDate="2016-10-10T07:31:21.623" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6444" PostId="2023" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I won't comment directly on the other points, but only agree that the novel does indeed tie the three major traditions together in the underlying narrative of Monkey' and his companions' path to Buddhist enlightenment." CreationDate="2016-10-10T22:07:12.353" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6591" PostId="2023" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou So lust,sex and prostitutes are **not** looked down upon and viewed as &quot;*polluting*&quot;? And Lü Dongbin, according to your other  answer,is said &quot;to be an exceptional person, both in virtue, humanity&quot;. Isn't *lusting after a prostitute* (and a mortal one, at that) and wanting to *steal* her &quot;Ying&quot; essence **evil** (or wrong and immoral,at best)?" CreationDate="2016-12-01T03:26:24.853" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6592" PostId="2023" Score="0" Text="@KVickneshvara You might find [this link](http://www.patheos.com/Library/Taoism/Ethics-Morality-Community/Principles-of-Moral-Thought-and-Action) useful. It's important to note that in folk culture, Taoists can be good or evil, and evil Taoists are often villains in Wuxia and Kung Fu films." CreationDate="2016-12-01T14:56:35.930" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6431" PostId="2024" Score="0" Text="Loki is a God and also the son of giants" CreationDate="2016-10-09T09:57:20.963" UserId="758" />
  <row Id="6432" PostId="2024" Score="1" Text="Also, the standard definition of God as immortal does not apply to Norse mythology. Gods only stay young because of apples and can die in battle" CreationDate="2016-10-09T09:58:27.400" UserId="758" />
  <row Id="6621" PostId="2024" Score="0" Text="The question is probably backwards. In all likelihood, Tyr and Idunn were gods first and then given a backstory second." CreationDate="2016-12-09T02:00:04.063" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6436" PostId="2025" Score="0" Text="Okay,but out of the thousands of elves and giants,why did the gods chose Idunn and Tyr to become gods?" CreationDate="2016-10-10T07:29:55.133" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6438" PostId="2025" Score="0" Text="The only god we have any idea of shred of such a story for is Loki, who appears to have been &quot;adopted&quot; by Odin as his brother, as well as Frey, Freya and Njord, who came to live with the Aesir after the war with the Vanir, but who appears to have been dieties even before that. Idun and Tyr is not mentioned in very many stories at all, so the short answer is that we don't know." CreationDate="2016-10-10T07:46:30.047" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6450" PostId="2031" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Right now I'm only trying to find afterlives that are similar to Valhalla in the fact that one of the main aspects about being there is the deceased get to continue fighting in battle. I've had no trouble finding afterlives that are peaceful in nature but when I try to search for ones where you fight the only result I get is Valhalla so far." CreationDate="2016-10-11T18:45:31.147" UserId="3072" />
  <row Id="6453" PostId="2031" Score="0" Text="@Gibet, you're confusing two different stories. Valhalla is where Odin's warriors train for the final confrontation between the gods and giants: Ragnarok.  The story about Brisingamen ([Sorla thattr](http://www.germanicmythology.com/FORNALDARSAGAS/SORLATHATTURKERSHAW.html)) tells how Odin set Loki to steal Freyja's necklace, Brisingmen, and wouldn't give it back to her until she set two kings and all their followers to battle eternally. (They were eventually set free when a Christian saved them.)" CreationDate="2016-10-12T14:22:40.113" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="6455" PostId="2031" Score="0" Text="It's always worth mentioning [Fólkvangr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%B3lkvangr), although this is also within the Nordic tradition ans thus not the answer you're looking for." CreationDate="2016-10-13T16:03:41.233" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6458" PostId="2033" Score="0" Text="Thanks for posting two very interesting looking sources!" CreationDate="2016-10-13T17:14:56.213" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11498" PostId="2033" Score="0" Text="At Fushimi Inari shrine, the kitsune statues vary and hold several different objects, rice sheaves, scrolls, etc." CreationDate="2019-04-17T19:26:43.823" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="11513" PostId="2033" Score="0" Text="I didn't say there wasn't. I just said that I have seen different objects in case someone believed it was just rice." CreationDate="2019-04-19T20:01:34.323" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="6454" PostId="2034" Score="6" Text="I have no clue, but I upvoted this sheerly for all the effort you put into this fascinating question. :)" CreationDate="2016-10-13T10:04:57.087" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="7072" PostId="2034" Score="1" Text="Don't really know, but my kneejerk reaction would be that it sounds kinda unlikely. It's a big burial mound with some thirty caves dug into it. Excavating tombs in the roots of your sacred tree seems like it would be problematic." CreationDate="2017-02-14T18:31:06.093" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="7084" PostId="2034" Score="1" Text="Why would Pushkin be an authority on where the world tree stood? This question feels more like an attempted answer." CreationDate="2017-02-15T20:44:24.507" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7595" PostId="2034" Score="0" Text="I'm with andejons on this one. In fact, it sounds like he wants us to approve his theory about the World Tree being a real tree in a real place. To my mind, that's an argument, not a question." CreationDate="2017-05-14T22:56:07.883" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="10343" PostId="2034" Score="1" Text="Beautiful question. Have you got some photos of the inscriptions in the non-deciphered language?" CreationDate="2018-04-07T20:58:12.333" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="6461" PostId="2042" Score="0" Text="Great question, K!  It's been too long since I read these cycles, so unfortunately I don't have an answer. I can think of another instance when bodily fluids came into play which is, of course, [Thor and Loki wading across the river Vimur](https://books.google.com/books?id=d58wInmDgTAC&amp;pg=PA129&amp;lpg=PA129&amp;dq=Odin+Thor+%26+Loki+waking+across+a+river+of+menstrual+blood&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=_JQdyfxmIb&amp;sig=XeWf-vILwMJC2DJfyqaiM2tOfQA&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwikltbLtefPAhWMWT4KHRH_BWgQ6AEIJjAC#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false)." CreationDate="2016-10-19T17:46:22.977" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6462" PostId="2043" Score="1" Text="Can you elaborate on the idea of replacing Dionysis with Hermes?  Not sure where you're going with that." CreationDate="2016-10-20T17:36:53.610" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6466" PostId="2043" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou, of course I do not meant that Dionysis is &quot;replaceable&quot; by Hermes. Of course they are very different. What I mean, is that Hermes seems to fit better to the group consisting of Cernunnos, Veles and Shiva. For example Hermes is psychopomp like Cernunnos and Shiva. Veles seems also to have something with underworld." CreationDate="2016-10-22T16:58:33.763" UserId="3092" />
  <row Id="6473" PostId="2043" Score="1" Text="@Roman Gotcha. Dionysus definitely has a strong fertility/rebirth connection, and he is slaughtered and consumed like kine or game. That said, I was just reading that the horns on the Mercury symbol represent the wings on his hat, but they sure look like horns to me, and he is associated with bovines in that he stole Apollo's cattle..." CreationDate="2016-10-26T18:17:37.170" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8256" PostId="2043" Score="0" Text="Formally seen, the question seems to be 'why do Indo-European deities share some traits' which is rather trivial. But more substantially the association is dubious." CreationDate="2017-09-06T16:53:49.743" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="11547" PostId="2045" Score="0" Text="but Achilles is old enough that for his son to participate in the Trojan war???" CreationDate="2019-05-03T01:13:50.310" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11548" PostId="2045" Score="2" Text="@HaoSun time is a fuzzy thing in the Greek mythology." CreationDate="2019-05-03T01:33:57.357" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6477" PostId="2053" Score="0" Text="I could be totally wrong, but was thinking, if someone has problems of their own, they would probably appreciate a superhero figure, to compensate. Einstein said, do not worry about your problems, I can assure you that mine are much greater. The truth is that we all have them. Living in problem-masking hypocrisy or unawareness is probably counterproductive." CreationDate="2016-10-28T12:20:05.140" UserId="3087" />
  <row Id="6479" PostId="2053" Score="1" Text="@Gibet aside from the commentary in the body of the question, per the actual question in the title, I think your answer (Odin, Hephaestos, etc.) is 100% correct.  You should post as an actual answer!" CreationDate="2016-10-28T17:42:16.803" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6633" PostId="2053" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I'll second DukeZhou's request. The examples you've given is the perfect answer to this question (though I'd say that the &quot;vast representation&quot; [sic] of gods are disabled in some way. Still, the ones you list should be sufficient." CreationDate="2016-12-11T19:57:22.557" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6483" PostId="2054" Score="2" Text="He said paralysis-like features as well, so the two I posted qualify." CreationDate="2016-10-28T23:20:41.163" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6485" PostId="2058" Score="0" Text="I have not myself read the Veda's, but some of the people I know are well versed in Hindu mythology. The reference here is obtained from one of them. It is supposed to be a good start into what is Veda and Upanishad. http://hinduism.about.com/od/scripturesepics/a/upanishads.htm" CreationDate="2016-10-29T21:24:40.100" UserId="3118" />
  <row Id="6488" PostId="2059" Score="4" Text="Great answer.  I don't think there is an implication that Poseidon looked at Medusa during the transformation.  In that passage from Ovid, Medusa is transformed for violating the shrine by laying with Poseidon.  Thus she was transformed ***after*** Poseidon had finished with her." CreationDate="2016-11-01T19:40:38.507" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6490" PostId="2064" Score="4" Text="Downvoted because I don't think this adds anything over  the previous answer http://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/2056/197" CreationDate="2016-11-02T21:12:55.353" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="7556" PostId="2065" Score="1" Text="To be honest this question seems rather more suited to History.SE than Mythology." CreationDate="2017-05-04T07:53:40.020" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="6542" PostId="2066" Score="0" Text="Mass or Size? Cuz big is am*big*ous" CreationDate="2016-11-16T23:34:27.627" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6546" PostId="2066" Score="0" Text="@bleh well, i was kinda looking size.somewhat like if each realm is a planet or land or something else." CreationDate="2016-11-17T10:38:31.183" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6547" PostId="2066" Score="0" Text="@bleh like how to classify them" CreationDate="2016-11-17T10:38:47.373" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6565" PostId="2066" Score="0" Text="Aren't 8/9 of the realms massless and imaginary? Only Midgard is solid?" CreationDate="2016-11-23T14:17:44.477" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6494" PostId="2068" Score="0" Text="The Odin connection is interesting. Could you elaborate?" CreationDate="2016-11-04T13:32:55.117" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6495" PostId="2068" Score="1" Text="Well I know the name Wednesday, comes from Woden's Day, or Odin's Day - and Wednesday is also associated with Mercury (the day of the planet)." CreationDate="2016-11-04T13:35:06.497" UserId="1511" />
  <row Id="6496" PostId="2068" Score="2" Text="In the [Western Hermetic Tradition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeticism) Hermes is associated with the archetype of the magus (magician).  Odin, unlike his Olympian counterpart Zeus, has many shamanistic characteristics, and actively seeks esoteric knowledge and power." CreationDate="2016-11-04T14:26:01.257" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6497" PostId="2068" Score="0" Text="Also known as Odin, Wodan, Vodan, and Votan to the&#xA;Germanic peoples of Northern Europe since deeply prehistoric times, he was chief deity of Asgaard, the abode of the gods in the Norse pantheon." CreationDate="2016-11-04T17:06:27.350" UserId="1511" />
  <row Id="16222" PostId="2068" Score="0" Text="Yes they are the same person, if you read the Emerald Tablets and ancient texts it says Thoth stored is other avatar bodies in the Halls of Amenti. He could reincarnate at will. Similar to the 2045 project we see today." CreationDate="2022-12-24T23:41:50.493" UserId="9857" />
  <row Id="6578" PostId="2071" Score="2" Text="It goes back to even before the Greeks, as the Sumerians and their Semitic neighbors (and the latter in turn with their neighbors) likewise engaged in *interpretatio deorum*." CreationDate="2016-11-26T20:33:48.327" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6498" PostId="2072" Score="0" Text="Egyptian and Japanese mythology?" CreationDate="2016-11-05T02:33:22.630" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6499" PostId="2072" Score="0" Text="I know for a fact that Egypt does" CreationDate="2016-11-05T02:36:42.697" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6500" PostId="2072" Score="0" Text="Really? I didn't know! Cld you tell me what it is?" CreationDate="2016-11-05T02:37:55.827" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6501" PostId="2072" Score="0" Text="Let us take this to [chat](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/48013/for-bleh-and-k)" CreationDate="2016-11-05T02:38:50.083" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6516" PostId="2072" Score="0" Text="@Gibet what do you mean by &quot;compulse&quot;? That isn't a word." CreationDate="2016-11-08T15:20:19.967" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="6520" PostId="2072" Score="0" Text="What abt Slavic mythology?" CreationDate="2016-11-09T07:04:54.727" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6503" PostId="2075" Score="0" Text="Lidow is certainly joking or misinformed; there is the story of how Frigg took Odin's brothers Vili and Vé as husbands when Odin was gone, and Saxo tells a story of how an illlusionist &quot;Mithodin&quot; briefly took his place." CreationDate="2016-11-05T20:15:21.637" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6506" PostId="2075" Score="0" Text="So he wasn't missed, in other words." CreationDate="2016-11-07T02:11:51.900" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="6504" PostId="2076" Score="1" Text="do you mean the literal meaning of the phrase, or how it applies to Apollo? &quot;by lot&quot; means &quot;by random draw,&quot; as in *lottery,* so &quot;distributing by lot&quot; is the same as &quot;picking a number out of a hat&quot; or &quot;drawning straws.&quot; How Apollo has the name I don't know." CreationDate="2016-11-06T13:33:03.423" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6507" PostId="2077" Score="0" Text="I couldn't find anything. Can you give me a specific region you're looking for?" CreationDate="2016-11-06T22:41:10.283" UserId="3004" />
  <row Id="6511" PostId="2077" Score="0" Text="@DiashawnBell If it has to be narrowed down, let's say in the Levant area (but I'm not changing the original question because I want to see if we can find anything anywhere along these lines)." CreationDate="2016-11-07T18:12:51.470" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="6523" PostId="2081" Score="0" Text="https://japanesemythology.wordpress.com/swan-maidens-and-the-white-feather-on-his-head/" CreationDate="2016-11-09T19:07:55.613" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10510" PostId="2081" Score="0" Text="Would be nice to mention in question those Greco-Roman and Mesopotamian stories you know." CreationDate="2018-05-01T13:19:40.833" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="6525" PostId="2082" Score="0" Text="@Gibet - Why would this have to have been introduced around 1200 BC?" CreationDate="2016-11-10T17:00:23.780" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="6528" PostId="2082" Score="0" Text="@Gibet - Why wouldn't it be possible for this to be introduced to the text around the time of the [Jewish-Roman wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_wars), for instance?" CreationDate="2016-11-13T11:05:48.300" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="6531" PostId="2082" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I wouldn't really ask the question the way you do because in the original Hebrew text of the Bible, Job's name is given as איוב (pronounced Iyov) which is similar, but not identical to the name Yov (יוב) that we are discussing. The Anglizication of Iyov as Job might give the impression that we are discussing the same name, but we aren't. Plus, Iyov was said to come from a non-Jewish, so we would not be bothered with his name resembling that of a foreign deity, but a grandson of Jacob we would not expect to be named the same as another god." CreationDate="2016-11-13T19:05:15.173" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="6960" PostId="2083" Score="0" Text="It's my opinion that Norse mythology was influenced by Christianity in more than one way. http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/918/93" CreationDate="2017-01-18T08:29:42.803" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="10763" PostId="2083" Score="0" Text="You could also ask why there's a story of [Zeus hanging Hera from the sky](http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Hera.html) (or alternativeley, over the Void) in Greek mythology." CreationDate="2018-07-13T18:52:20.640" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="6518" PostId="2084" Score="0" Text="I realized that my answer doesn't really tell you anything about the oracle itself. It doesn't seem to have worked by lot, however, but instead it [used a priest](https://books.google.ca/books?id=-RE-AAAAcAAJ&amp;pg=PA98&amp;lpg=PA98&amp;dq=Apollo+Clarius&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=Xx0qKoJLxn&amp;sig=fVnbc3jmsHs_mOEySTkhthgNJkU&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjOvt7mxJrQAhWkKcAKHZQiBT4Q6AEIVjAJ#v=onepage&amp;q=Apollo%20Clarius&amp;f=false). He was brought to the temple, told the name and number of the questioners, and then went into a grotto and drank the water. After that he answered the questions, in verse." CreationDate="2016-11-09T01:41:49.007" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="6530" PostId="2087" Score="0" Text="Thanks, I wrote &quot;Summerian&quot; only because most of the Mesopotamian mythology was influenced by Sumer religion. However you're right." CreationDate="2016-11-13T15:19:53.813" UserId="3151" />
  <row Id="6533" PostId="2088" Score="0" Text="Well there are the Vestal Virgins...." CreationDate="2016-11-14T12:45:15.453" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6540" PostId="2089" Score="4" Text="Ben Johnson famously said of Shakespeare that had a little [&quot;Latin and less Greek&quot;](http://www.bartleby.com/40/163.html) so it's a fair assumption Shakespeare was influenced by Classical material in his imagining of the Weird Sisters.  [Goddess triads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_deity#Triple_goddesses) are quite prevalent in Classical mythology." CreationDate="2016-11-16T21:16:49.203" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6543" PostId="2089" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Indeed they are! I am curious to know if they share a common etiology as many share similar traits." CreationDate="2016-11-16T23:40:56.317" UserId="3158" />
  <row Id="6550" PostId="2089" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I don't see where I made the affirmative connection. The given paradigm is the aforementioned similarities and I was asking if substantiating evidence exists regarding a common etiology. And also, &quot;multiple [quotation] marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind.&quot;" CreationDate="2016-11-18T04:40:57.030" UserId="3158" />
  <row Id="6554" PostId="2089" Score="0" Text="@Gibet It isn't so much a direct correlation between those two specific examples but I was wanting to know if they can trace their origins to a common source. Trying to connect Shakespeare to Greek mythology is like tying skyscrapers with the Egyptian pyramids. Some of the earliest mentions go back to around 600 BC. Revering female deities or feminine symbologies (outside of fertility) can be seen as far back as 6500 BC." CreationDate="2016-11-18T16:09:37.423" UserId="3158" />
  <row Id="6555" PostId="2089" Score="0" Text="@Gibet You mentioned proto-Celt mythologies. The timing of the emergence of the characters in both western Europe (celts) and in Greece are about the same, which means it is likely one got the idea from the other. However, the distance between the two goes against that idea. Additionally, the use of Norns and Fates/Graeae don't appear to be the first time literary figures matching that format were used. I appreciate the &quot;safe bet&quot; but I was probing for something a little more substantial." CreationDate="2016-11-18T16:17:48.877" UserId="3158" />
  <row Id="6560" PostId="2098" Score="0" Text="Do we know that Helie builds off of Bron's work? [This source (which seems reputable)](http://www.medievalfrancophone.ac.uk/textual-traditions-and-segments/tristan/) says that we don't know for sure what the role of each author was in the text." CreationDate="2016-11-20T20:06:49.527" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6561" PostId="2098" Score="0" Text="I was going off this line: &quot;The new book, too, is to be translated from the Latin, but the author intends also to draw upon Master Walter Map's *Lancelot*, the great books of Robert de Boron (doubtless, the Pseudo-Robert cycle) and the book of Luce de Gaut (i. e. the prose *Tristan* in its earlier form).&quot;" CreationDate="2016-11-20T20:10:37.860" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6564" PostId="2098" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet Sorry, I forgot to tag you!" CreationDate="2016-11-21T19:28:41.340" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="8780" PostId="2101" Score="0" Text="Because of The Karna's question I have joined this community." CreationDate="2018-01-11T07:48:46.450" UserId="4602" />
  <row Id="6567" PostId="2102" Score="0" Text="*So what gives? Was Achilles nigh-invincible or not?* No, I'm pretty sure there was a heel involved. Good question on the source check overall." CreationDate="2016-11-23T20:31:28.860" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6568" PostId="2103" Score="3" Text="Keyword of interest here: [Euhemerism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euhemerism)." CreationDate="2016-11-24T05:36:36.017" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="6583" PostId="2103" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon any interest in writing an answer about Euhemerism (for completeness sake)? I would be willing to give a bounty to any decently written answer." CreationDate="2016-11-28T17:41:22.163" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6582" PostId="2104" Score="0" Text="Sorry for not accepting this before; that was just me being forgetful." CreationDate="2016-11-26T22:47:08.203" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="6751" PostId="2105" Score="1" Text="Another interesting case where oral history corresponds to archaeological history is the island of Roviana in the Solomon Islands (for example, see this article http://www.jstor.org/stable/3134418 and http://www.jstor.org/stable/530445). So clearly, there are a lot of examples where oral history is historically accurate." CreationDate="2016-12-19T21:19:33.967" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="7019" PostId="2105" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet Thanks for those links. (PS- I added a section on American mythology that deals with the intersection of history and fiction.  It's a great case study for both sides of the equation. Also a note on Archaic vs. Classical mythology in Ancient Greece.)" CreationDate="2017-01-26T01:38:47.543" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6571" PostId="2106" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Check out 1995 Burgess article &quot;Achilles' Heel: The Death of Achilles in Ancient Myth&quot; (*Classical Antiquity* 14.2: 217–244). He cites some opinions that place the dipping into the Hellenistic era, but yes, indeed, Statius is the earliest extant source that contains the story." CreationDate="2016-11-24T21:07:48.993" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6572" PostId="2107" Score="2" Text="There's a slight issue with using these examples—they are all examples that we know or think have a tiny historical core. So you bringing them together doesn't really say anything about the castration of Cronus or the adventures of Heracles or the descent of Inana or Marduk slaying Tiamat. It will be difficult to say that it this is just how it's done, rather than them being anomalies." CreationDate="2016-11-25T17:14:43.447" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6574" PostId="2107" Score="0" Text="Yes, I wasn't trying to say you were, but it's important not to read your illuminating post and walk away thinking you were implying that." CreationDate="2016-11-25T22:11:18.707" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6601" PostId="2107" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer any interest in writing an answer that references  Euhemerism for the sake of completeness? I would like to try and get as many perspectives on this question as I can." CreationDate="2016-12-04T15:39:12.487" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6602" PostId="2107" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet I will try to write up a post for you sometime soon." CreationDate="2016-12-04T18:02:01.070" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6781" PostId="2107" Score="0" Text="I'm awarding the bounty on this question to Gibert, not because of this answer in particular, but as a way to thank Gibert for his contributions to the site over the past several months. (Although this bounty technically was meant for an answer discussing Euhemerism, none of the answers did this, and I wanted to do something with the bounty to avoid wasting the reputation)." CreationDate="2016-12-26T21:43:58.993" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6575" PostId="2108" Score="0" Text="Welcome to StackExchange! While I agree with your answer (though I'd posit the armor, not his skin, as the origin of his invincibility), these sorts of neat observations typically belong in the comments, since it's not a direct answer to the question. I'm not thoroughly happy with that policy, and I upvoted your post anyway since I think a case could be made for its contribution, but SE frowns on tangential discussions in answers. You should try to spark a conversation on this in the chat, though; it's not every day that people like to get down and dirty with literary analysis of the *Iliad*!" CreationDate="2016-11-26T19:08:13.250" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6581" PostId="2108" Score="0" Text="I agree with @C.M.Weimer that commentary is worthwhile.  There definitely seems to be an intent in the Iliad where the frivolity of the gods is juxtaposed against the dignity of man. (Some see a precursor to Christian mythology in Achilles willing sacrifice of himself by taking part in the war. Both figures have split divine/human parentage.) It is interesting that when Achilles finally commits, it is not for the glory of the Greeks but for the love of a friend." CreationDate="2016-11-26T21:27:53.433" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6584" PostId="2113" Score="1" Text="Loki was a master shapeshifter and famously transformed himself into a mare to give birth to [Sleipnir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleipnir), thus bearing and giving birth was not beyond his capabilities." CreationDate="2016-11-29T21:22:16.283" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6585" PostId="2113" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou yes, but how exactly did he do so with this monster-thingy?" CreationDate="2016-11-30T03:35:36.883" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6586" PostId="2113" Score="0" Text="@KVickneshvara Are you asking if there's a legend about how this specific female character turned into a male to impregnate a gender-swapped Loki, or if there's a Kama Sutra Edda?" CreationDate="2016-11-30T11:11:35.903" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6587" PostId="2113" Score="0" Text="@Lauren Ipsum &quot;this specific female character turned into a male&quot;.Where is this stated?" CreationDate="2016-11-30T13:06:54.237" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6588" PostId="2113" Score="0" Text="Your quotes are `Lopt was impregnated BY a wicked woman`, and males generally do the impregnating; and `With child from the woman | Lopt soon was`, also implying that the female character was the sperm donor, a traditionally male role. I'm perefectly willing to be proven wrong, but it's not a crazy inference, especially given that Loki himself has turned into a herself and carried and borne offspring before in Norse legend." CreationDate="2016-11-30T14:31:32.507" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6589" PostId="2113" Score="1" Text="The idea that you could become pregnant by eating something turns up in European myths and folklore frequently. (The [Irish myth of Etain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89ta%C3%ADn) is a good example.) It turns up in Norse insults, as well, suggesting that some man has eaten something that made him pregnant." CreationDate="2016-12-01T02:14:15.490" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="6590" PostId="2114" Score="0" Text="@solsditttir so there is no other text of Norse mythology that has this legend?" CreationDate="2016-12-01T02:48:05.660" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6595" PostId="2114" Score="0" Text="No, unfortunately. Both Voluspa and the Shorter Volupsa have many mysteries like this. But I like @andejons' idea about *why* Loki would eat the heart; it makes sense in the context of Norse myth." CreationDate="2016-12-02T02:57:03.017" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="6811" PostId="2114" Score="0" Text="Today i learnt that there is also a sort of reference of someone getting pregnant in this way in an Icelandic Saga: In Bjarnar saga Hítdœlakappa, there is an insulting poem that Bjarn writes about his rival Tord, in which he claims that Tord was born after his mother found and ate a half-rotten slimy fish." CreationDate="2017-01-01T21:20:00.247" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6823" PostId="2114" Score="0" Text="Yes, that's a famous one. It's a nice right-and-left, because it insults both him and his mother." CreationDate="2017-01-02T21:30:02.080" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="6641" PostId="2116" Score="2" Text="+1 Good answer! I wonder, though, if Pseudo-Hyginus is a good source for what Romans believed about Vesta's birth. It looks instead like a Greek myth might have overwritten any earlier Roman beliefs—supposing they even had a birth for Vesta!" CreationDate="2016-12-13T04:03:03.933" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6720" PostId="2117" Score="1" Text="If there is not in fact such an occurrence in Graeco-Roman myths, what would an acceptable answer look like to you?" CreationDate="2016-12-17T12:56:02.427" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6722" PostId="2117" Score="0" Text="Thanks for your question. Actually I'm hoping for a positive answer with some examples, but if, as I suspect, the answer is no, then I would hope that the answer would either cite to an authoritative scholarly source(s) that says so, or else at least to go through the closest potential examples (citing to the original accounts) explaining them away. The best secondary source I've seen so far is an old (1936) article by Conway Zirkle, &quot;Animals impregnated by the wind,&quot; Isis 25:95-130, which doesn't have any examples of what I'm looking for, and appears to be saying that there are none." CreationDate="2016-12-17T18:00:01.707" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="6723" PostId="2117" Score="2" Text="You might find a harder time getting better than that, since people are not prone to stating matter-of-factly that something doesn't exist without there being at least some evidence that there does." CreationDate="2016-12-17T18:19:38.960" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6597" PostId="2118" Score="0" Text="Thanks, but my question doesn't much require us to get into linguistics. But for the record, the word in question is not &quot;psyche,&quot; either in Attic or New Testament Greek. The stricter word for wind was animos (so the gods of winds were collectively known as the animoi), while the more flexible term was pneuma." CreationDate="2016-12-03T07:06:15.557" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="6598" PostId="2118" Score="0" Text="(continued) Pneuma was the term generally used in classical myths when the non-personalized wind impregnated animals, and which was used in the New Testament to refer to the Holy Spirit (pneuma hagion) and the Spirit of God (pneuma Theou), including in the virginal conception of Jesus; this was also the term used in the Septuagint translating from the Hebrew (ruach) for the same, as in Genesis 1.2. So my question remains...." CreationDate="2016-12-03T07:06:42.833" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="7967" PostId="2118" Score="0" Text="Very good points about usage in the NT.  Thanks for providing!  I suspect my tendency toward [ψυχή](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dyuxh%2F) is a product of my old Greek teacher.  The term is definitely [related to the Latin anima in the Middle Liddell](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3Dyuxh%2F).  [πνεῦμα](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dpneu%3Dma) can carry the meaning of divine inspiration, but it seemed less apropos for this question." CreationDate="2017-08-01T18:29:19.183" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7972" PostId="2118" Score="0" Text="Well-informed discussions, nice. yet i would like to remind that wind directly translated to spirit/anima/pneuma there is a gap in Greco-Roman myth, except until i pointed out the indian/chi concept of wind related to life force. OT *breath from God to Adam* reminded for the Hebrews which is Far East not Greco-Roman. Wind is visible with observing the movement, but spirit is not. Thus the Greco-Roman seeing wind as life force this still remains unproven..." CreationDate="2017-08-02T04:38:36.240" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7973" PostId="2118" Score="0" Text="I kept the intuitive understanding G-R mind sees copulation the only way to produce new life. This can be further supported in many other myths of birth, like Zeus needed to turn to swan, bull, goose (?)... etc.  in order to have sex and impregnate his women." CreationDate="2017-08-02T04:40:24.077" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7981" PostId="2118" Score="0" Text="@Mishu米殊 Respectfully, this concept was conveyed to me by a very fine scholar.  The thing you're going to notice about that ψυχή link in my response to George's comment is the sheer number of entries.  Iliad [II.23.100: &quot;but the spirit like a vapour was gone beneath the earth&quot;](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0134%3Abook%3D23%3Acard%3D93).  I find the idea that ψυχή and [ψύχω](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=yu%2Fxw&amp;la=greek&amp;can=yu%2Fxw0&amp;prior=tripo/lion&amp;d=Perseus:text:1999.04.0057:entry=yuxh/&amp;i=1#lexicon) are unrelated difficult to swallow." CreationDate="2017-08-02T23:13:24.200" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7987" PostId="2118" Score="0" Text="Ok. not studied hard for any Greek myth I got the Illiad book in Italian || Eng (?) trying to learn so I can't claim I really know... however from the quote you referred it said &quot;the spirit answered&quot; just further marked there is different concept of *wind as spirit* and *wind as life force* (qi/prana) for in the later the qi/prana won't be able to have a mind or as a self, so it won't answer or think, it's just like current running in the electric bulb..." CreationDate="2017-08-03T05:48:34.800" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7994" PostId="2118" Score="0" Text="@Mishu米殊 There really isn't a distinction between life-force and spirit in the Greek conception.  The spirit is the life-force." CreationDate="2017-08-04T19:03:35.607" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7996" PostId="2118" Score="0" Text="Hmmm... the life force of In/Ch won't be able to answer question as that wrote in Illiad. So they are not in the same context :/" CreationDate="2017-08-04T19:48:15.783" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7997" PostId="2118" Score="0" Text="@Mishu米殊 Although, by the time of Plato, there is a distinction between Eros and Psyche." CreationDate="2017-08-04T19:52:14.790" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8001" PostId="2118" Score="0" Text="Are we understanding each other...hmm?? If the life force (electric current) being input to a kettle it will boil water, to washer washing the clothes, to Frankenstein give it life! These are the same electricity. It prompts me to think, do the Greco concepts of spirit, Eros, Psyche have identities? Such as Helen's Psyche can't be input to Paris because it is Helen, separated from her is impossible? If so then it will neatly answer why the spirit must be personified..." CreationDate="2017-08-04T21:55:54.790" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="6603" PostId="2120" Score="4" Text="I'd venture a guess and say this could be a reference to the book of the divine cow. If memory serves, in the story Hathor took Sekhmet's form to destroy mankind in the service of Ra." CreationDate="2016-12-04T20:42:12.930" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6608" PostId="2121" Score="0" Text="*According to what I read in the Internet* could you provide links to the websites you read?" CreationDate="2016-12-05T18:37:37.207" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6610" PostId="2121" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C4%81ne and http://ancienthawaiiangods.weebly.com/kane.html is the link for the one where Kane comes from Chaos and https://glitternight.com/2011/03/02/eleven-more-deities-from-hawaiian-mythology-2/ for the second myth. I remember that there were more websites about the second myth but I can't seem to find them at the moment." CreationDate="2016-12-06T06:56:50.250" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6616" PostId="2121" Score="0" Text="Could you edit this question to include these links? And in the future, it's always a good idea to cite the source of any information you read online." CreationDate="2016-12-06T18:06:05.490" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6789" PostId="2121" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Isn't Tane the hawaiian version of Kane? Also, I recently found out that Hawaiians called the sky father &quot;Wakea&quot;. According to Wikipedia, Wakea is the &quot;son&quot; of some people,meaning that he can't possibly be the original god. Do *you*  know anything about this?" CreationDate="2016-12-29T23:18:39.137" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6606" PostId="2123" Score="0" Text="there are even sources (even less trustworthy) that claim Monday is Frigg's day and Friday is Freyja's day." CreationDate="2016-12-05T13:38:57.580" UserDisplayName="user3198" />
  <row Id="6615" PostId="2123" Score="3" Text="You can safely ignore the less trustworthy sources. Monday is named after the Moon." CreationDate="2016-12-06T15:32:06.020" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6622" PostId="2127" Score="1" Text="That's exactly the story! Thank you so much. I remembered it being a very inspiring and beautiful story." CreationDate="2016-12-09T08:50:50.900" UserId="3220" />
  <row Id="6623" PostId="2127" Score="2" Text="I'm both fascinated and queasy that everyone thinks this is beautiful and inspiring. Queen Niobe also had her (14) children sent to death by gods, and she is the mythological archetype of the bereaved mother because of it. Niobe's children died because of the queen's boasts, so it was a punishment. These two men were trying to do the right thing and take care of their mother, so the gods kill them as an honor? Not even &quot;put them in the stars so people could remember them,&quot; but just whack them? I'm puzzled as to how the mother (or anyone) could consider that a good thing." CreationDate="2016-12-09T12:36:15.380" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6637" PostId="2127" Score="1" Text="@LaurenIpsum One might look to Hesiod's Works and Days, where an honest life is understood as toil unto death.  The Ancient Greek word for work, &quot;[ponos](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dpo%2Fnos)&quot; is derived from the same root for poverty &quot;[penia](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=peni%2Fa&amp;la=greek&amp;can=peni%2Fa0&amp;prior=pe/nomai#lexicon)&quot;: &quot;[penomai](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=pe%2Fnomai&amp;la=greek&amp;can=pe%2Fnomai0&amp;prior=o)&quot;.  &quot;Pain&quot; has its origins here." CreationDate="2016-12-12T17:17:24.410" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6626" PostId="2128" Score="3" Text="This question is really broad. I don't know enough to write an answer, but my understanding is that most of these &quot;Christmas symbols&quot; have different origins. You might get better responses if you restricted this question to one specific &quot;Christmas symbol&quot;, i.e. asked a question only about the origin of Santa" CreationDate="2016-12-09T22:49:44.090" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6627" PostId="2128" Score="0" Text="I don't know if this is mythological so much as it is cultural, but I could be wrong." CreationDate="2016-12-10T00:46:37.350" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="6628" PostId="2128" Score="1" Text="I agree with @hamlet. If you ask questions about a number of specific traditions (the tree, the stocking, mistleoe) you'd probably get some decent answers." CreationDate="2016-12-10T11:48:50.780" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6632" PostId="2128" Score="3" Text="@Hamlet I'm voting to reopen it with this slight edit. This would allow for a narrower answer that isn't required to look at every little thing, but instead draws an overall picture. Hope this helps." CreationDate="2016-12-11T17:39:03.653" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6702" PostId="2131" Score="1" Text="@femtoRgon I did a quick search on star iconography in ancient art, but so far the only images I've found come from sites I can't vouch for such as: http://lds-studies.blogspot.com/2011/05/seal-of-melchizedek-eight-pointed-star.html which I'm posting mostly to support your point about use of the star as a symbol" CreationDate="2016-12-15T20:24:58.213" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6718" PostId="2131" Score="0" Text="This is a fair question. It guess it is asked by people with exceptionally good eyesight :-) Another example [here (&quot;How Did the Stars Get Their Points?&quot;)](http://bit-player.org/2011/how-did-the-stars-get-their-points). The fact is that stars look pointy even to humans (without telescopes), especially as you get older. And not just stars, but all lights such as street lamps, headlights oncoming cars..." CreationDate="2016-12-16T17:38:28.610" UserId="3234" />
  <row Id="8382" PostId="2131" Score="2" Text="To the Pythagoreans, the pentagram was a symbol of, and called, *health.* But the figure in the question lacks the interior lines proper to it, whereby it contains a pentagon--within which the entire figure can be re-inscribed, and so on *ad infinitum.* In the whole potentially infinite complex, the ratio of any defined linear magnitude to the next longer or shorter is always the Golden Ratio, φ or Φ." CreationDate="2017-09-24T15:06:18.877" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="9037" PostId="2131" Score="0" Text="When small ice particles form on cold nights. You can see the light beams even with a healthy eye." CreationDate="2018-02-26T10:58:11.147" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="6638" PostId="2132" Score="3" Text="Not posting as a formal answer b/c I don't remember where I read it (possibly Frazer) but it has been proposed that the &quot;magical properties&quot; associated with mistletoe derive from it's status as a parasitic plant which grows not from the ground, but &quot;between heaven and earth on host trees.  Thus it is [liminal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liminality)." CreationDate="2016-12-12T21:37:36.107" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9134" PostId="2133" Score="0" Text="Did/does it actually cure/help with menstrual cramps and everything else?" CreationDate="2018-03-12T15:27:22.783" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="6639" PostId="2137" Score="3" Text="Thanks for doing what I had forgotten to do. Any chance to introduce citations for the claim? With that, I think it would be the perfect answer." CreationDate="2016-12-13T00:20:52.067" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6644" PostId="2138" Score="1" Text="Ugh, &quot;29 June 2005&quot; in the penultimate paragraph should be &quot;29 May 2005&quot; obviously. Easy to get things wrong. :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law" CreationDate="2016-12-13T12:12:43.867" UserId="3234" />
  <row Id="6647" PostId="2141" Score="2" Text="Yes, that would be an explanation.  Can you provide any sources that may back it up?" CreationDate="2016-12-13T15:10:02.750" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="6648" PostId="2141" Score="8" Text="Despite Christian mythology containing much extra-Jewish influence, the Odin story is not one of them. It would have been highly unlikely for Odin to reach Palestine in the first century CE without it leaving a trace along the way, Moreover, every single text of this story post-dates the birth of Christianity by hundreds of years. If there's a relationship at all, it's certainly the other way around." CreationDate="2016-12-13T16:35:09.940" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6672" PostId="2143" Score="1" Text="Gylfaginning is clearly older than the rímur; Wikipedia dates the latter to the fourteenth century. It does seem to follow Gylfaginning quite closely, but it should not be presented as the primary version." CreationDate="2016-12-14T07:01:53.450" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6670" PostId="2145" Score="2" Text="The dead men raised by the white walkers are called wights. This is a reference to draugrs, wight is how William Morris translates draugr in his translation of the [Grettis Saga](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grettis_saga). This is nothing more than pure speculation on my part, but I think George R.R. Martin may have picked up the reference from Tolkien (see: barrow wights). If Song of Ice and Fire wights are indeed based on draugrs, then perhaps the other primary undead creatures, the white walkers, are also based on creatures from mythologies outside the British Isles." CreationDate="2016-12-13T22:11:45.460" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6671" PostId="2145" Score="0" Text="Why did you accept Yannis' answer so soon? It's a good answer (I upvoted it), but there are other answers to this question as well. My advice would be to leave the question open for a bit longer to give others an opportunity to try their hand at it." CreationDate="2016-12-14T01:21:39.267" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6675" PostId="2145" Score="1" Text="There are dozens of them.  This is too broad." CreationDate="2016-12-14T08:56:19.297" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="6677" PostId="2145" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka Dozens? Do tell..." CreationDate="2016-12-14T09:31:06.020" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6678" PostId="2145" Score="2" Text="@Yannis:  Just about every barrow, mump, worm hill, ley spring and most spinneys have a legend of the guardian spirit that is usually a notable local who awaits their full return to this world.  Most are benevolent, provided you don't annoy them." CreationDate="2016-12-14T09:57:43.253" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="6679" PostId="2145" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka Ah. Given that G.R.R. Martin's undead are corporeal, I assumed spirits and ghosts didn't count. Perhaps that's something that needs to be clarified in the question." CreationDate="2016-12-14T10:54:18.970" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6680" PostId="2145" Score="0" Text="@Yannis: Yes, clarification needed.  Depending upon your specific legend, some of these spirits do assume corporeal form at certain times." CreationDate="2016-12-14T10:57:09.813" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="6688" PostId="2145" Score="1" Text="&quot;Revenant&quot; seems to be the broadest term, and one that implies corporeality (i.e. a re-animated corpse.)" CreationDate="2016-12-14T18:54:08.060" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6689" PostId="2145" Score="1" Text="Although GRRM had to be inspired by Tolkien, I see the influence more in the creation of a history and mythology that exists underneath the narrative.  (Avoiding elves, orcs, goblins, etc. is a pretty big departure, and I'm guessing he wanted to distinguish his series from Tolkien clones.)  GRRM seems very well informed on all aspects of medieval culture and technology, so I'm think there's an extremely high liklihood that like Tolkien, he is familiar with all of the relevant mythological canons." CreationDate="2016-12-14T18:57:35.160" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6681" PostId="2149" Score="1" Text="Hi, and welcome! Do you think you could provide a link, citation, or additional commentary so others can evaluate your answer? Thanks!" CreationDate="2016-12-14T13:37:18.013" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6682" PostId="2149" Score="0" Text="Of course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karna#Prelude_to_war" CreationDate="2016-12-14T13:43:03.140" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="6683" PostId="2149" Score="0" Text="I'll add it to your answer this time, but in the future it's good practice to include references and commentary in your answer." CreationDate="2016-12-14T13:44:57.387" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6686" PostId="2150" Score="3" Text="In general, we're looking for answers that are based on evidence, not conjecture. This is more of a comment." CreationDate="2016-12-14T16:18:40.167" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6691" PostId="2152" Score="3" Text="Hi. First, I think you mean Iapetos. Also, adding sources and some commentary will go a long way in making this a good answer." CreationDate="2016-12-14T21:34:34.903" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6693" PostId="2153" Score="0" Text="i thing this is correct answer and am agree with your answer ,becasue logically it makes sense" CreationDate="2016-12-15T04:55:48.540" UserId="3183" />
  <row Id="6716" PostId="2156" Score="2" Text="would it be possible to include an actual quote from the Prose Edda? linking to &quot;page 14&quot; of a pdf document is not very helpful. do you mean page 14 of the pdf, or page 14 of the original document?" CreationDate="2016-12-16T14:52:49.390" UserId="3230" />
  <row Id="6705" PostId="2160" Score="0" Text="Why the downvote? This appears to be the answer to the question, however disappointing it is in having little to no mythological basis. Nuke the question, but why downvote this answer?" CreationDate="2016-12-15T23:58:39.790" UserId="3229" />
  <row Id="6708" PostId="2160" Score="0" Text="The use of stars (the symbol) to represent stars (the celestial object) isn't some sort of social fact rooted in biology; in fact, this particular use of a pentagram is far from universal. As a counterexample,  [people in Mesoamerica depicted the celestial object as eyes](http://www.mexicolore.co.uk/aztecs/calendar/sky-band). Any answer to this question must look at the history of using stars (the symbol) to depict the celestial object, and from there determine at what time this use of the symbol arose and why it arose." CreationDate="2016-12-16T03:01:36.783" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6709" PostId="2160" Score="0" Text="And this question hasn't been &quot;nuked&quot;: one person voted to close the question and two other people left comments in support of leaving the question open." CreationDate="2016-12-16T03:04:18.970" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6711" PostId="2160" Score="0" Text="@Hamlet: But I didn't ask for any of that in my question. Perhaps I need to make that clearer in the question? What I wanted to know was why that symbol was seen as appropriate for representing a celestial star. In particular, I'm not asking whether all cultures use the same symbol. As for when, that would be interesting, but I'm not sure it's possible to know - and that seems like a question for the History stackexchange. (And I didn't say anyone nuked my question :) Read what I wrote again. I said I would have no objection to my question being nuked.)" CreationDate="2016-12-16T10:31:39.727" UserId="3229" />
  <row Id="6712" PostId="2160" Score="0" Text="@Giblet: I think that is a very interesting answer to a question that one can ask, but it's not strictly what I asked. I wanted to know why the &quot;pentagram&quot; (not my choice of term, but still...) was seen as an _appropriate_ symbol to use for a celestial star. I can expand my question along those lines to make it more appropriate on this site actually, perhaps?" CreationDate="2016-12-16T10:35:01.117" UserId="3229" />
  <row Id="6714" PostId="2160" Score="0" Text="@Gibet: sure, I'm with you... (plus, shall we move this to chat? I'm not sure how to, though...)" CreationDate="2016-12-16T12:56:29.427" UserId="3229" />
  <row Id="6724" PostId="2168" Score="2" Text="Hi, and welcome to Myth.SE. Can you give some sort of link or citation for this, something for the rest of us to follow up on? Thanks!" CreationDate="2016-12-17T18:22:28.747" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6727" PostId="2169" Score="2" Text="I'd never even *heard* of fakelore. I love learning new stuff. :)" CreationDate="2016-12-18T13:37:19.910" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6728" PostId="2169" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum I'm glad you appreciate the question! I'm no expert, but if you want to learn more about the field of folkloristics, please feel free to ask any questions and I'll be happy to answer them." CreationDate="2016-12-18T21:20:08.793" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6758" PostId="2170" Score="2" Text="Your footnote improves your definition of folklore, which is not restricted to the oral tradition (and includes what people put on top of Christmas trees), and because some practices transmitted at least partly orally are not folklore (such as many songs)." CreationDate="2016-12-20T14:42:57.773" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="6759" PostId="2170" Score="2" Text="Dorson defines &quot;fakelore&quot; as &quot;the presentation of spurious and synthetic writings under the claim that they are genuine folklore&quot;. So something like the &quot;ploughman's lunch&quot; (invented by advertisers of cheese in the 1950s) or the &quot;full English breakfast&quot;, also known as the &quot;full Scottish&quot;, etc., and first appearing as the &quot;full American breakfast&quot; (invented by advertisers of pork in the 1920s), wouldn't count because they are not written, although the name often is." CreationDate="2016-12-20T14:45:19.920" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="6763" PostId="2170" Score="0" Text="@TheEarth I'll edit this answer to (1) move my footnoted definition of folklore to the top of the answer, and (2) to clarify that the phenomenon of fakelore is mostly restricted to writings (e.g. stories) that claim to be exact recordings of folklore but are really based on artistic license. Since you know more about folklore than I do, is there anything else about this answer that I should edit?" CreationDate="2016-12-20T17:25:33.380" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6731" PostId="2175" Score="0" Text="This is all very interesting, but the question is about Greek mythology. Isn't that clear from its tags and text?" CreationDate="2016-12-19T12:53:31.580" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6743" PostId="2175" Score="1" Text="@Yannis While it clearly doesn't answer the question, I think it's nonetheless interesting and adds to the overall discussion. People searching for gods turning into other gods could potentially benefit from this answer, too." CreationDate="2016-12-19T16:39:30.700" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6744" PostId="2175" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Similarly, people searching for gods turning into other gods in Greek mythology could potentially be disappointed in our site if none of the answers actually answers the question. Remember, this site tries to differentiate itself from traditional discussion forums, supposedly we are [&quot;all about getting answers&quot;](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). That said, I have absolutely no intention of moderating the answer." CreationDate="2016-12-19T16:55:51.047" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6745" PostId="2175" Score="0" Text="@Yannis True, and I wasn't urging an acceptance of the answer. I guess I just see a benefit in a diversity of answers (with hopefully one best answer), though I realize that's not exactly StackExchange's vision." CreationDate="2016-12-19T17:05:09.403" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6734" PostId="2178" Score="0" Text="I suspect this has more to do with the Carthaginians practicing child sacrifice (remember that Cronus ate his children), rather than the deities actually sharing attributes or abilities." CreationDate="2016-12-19T15:08:29.720" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6754" PostId="2182" Score="4" Text="Hm, I wouldn't be surprised if the Pasiphae story is indeed the earliest instance we know of. [2 Esdras](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Esdras) mentions that &quot;women in their uncleanness will bear monsters&quot;, but I don't think this could be older than the myth of the Minotaur. Very interesting first question, welcome to the site!" CreationDate="2016-12-20T08:02:45.610" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7026" PostId="2182" Score="0" Text="Would a king who is part snake count? Erichthonius technically isn't known as a &quot;monster&quot; in the modern pop-culture sense of ravaging beast, but his life actually even begins with some gory tragedy connected to his apparently scary appearance. (Also the most popular records of his parentage make his mother a goddess, although there _is_ a version in which his mother is human.)" CreationDate="2017-01-28T06:40:47.447" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7027" PostId="2182" Score="0" Text="&amp; what about [humanoid] giants? Would those fit the bill?" CreationDate="2017-01-28T06:41:55.517" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7028" PostId="2182" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra Only if the mother is human" CreationDate="2017-01-28T13:39:51.590" UserId="3157" />
  <row Id="7051" PostId="2182" Score="0" Text="Alright. 1 more point of consideration &amp; 1 more clarification question: Pasiphae, the mother of the Minotaur, technically should not qualify as human; she was a goddess, or at the very least the member of a class of immortal witches in the family of the Sun. I can address this as its own side point in my Answer if U like, though, with some additional material." CreationDate="2017-02-04T14:07:13.223" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7052" PostId="2182" Score="0" Text="Then my question regards timelines in relation to your title of &quot;earliest recorded story.&quot; Do you mean earliest in terms of the internal chronology of the specific mythological universe in view, or rather are U looking particularly for the oldest actual accounts/records/writings/reports of such a thing (if U know what I mean)?" CreationDate="2017-02-04T14:08:22.397" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7054" PostId="2182" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra I was not aware that Pasiphae wasn't human. My basic question is still there though. And I meant in recorded human history, not necessarily within a specific mythological system." CreationDate="2017-02-05T04:28:31.123" UserId="3157" />
  <row Id="6761" PostId="2187" Score="0" Text="I think the first reference to &quot;Santaclausville N[orth] P[ole]&quot; in a Thomas Nast illustration was in 1866, not 1863. During the war itself, which ended in 1865, _Harper's Weekly_ was not especially strongly pro-Northern, and it maintained a readership in the South. Some who would have liked it to be more supportive of the North called it &quot;Harper's Weakly&quot;." CreationDate="2016-12-20T15:53:53.093" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="6764" PostId="2189" Score="1" Text="I have a personal theory, based on [Clytemnestra's dialogue](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0108%3Acard%3D1146) in Iphigenia at Aulis, that the insult to Artemis by Agamemnon actually arose out of his status of &quot;baby killer&quot; in that he killed Clytemnestra's infant after murdering her former husband to take her by force in marriage.  Euripides also probably uses this to reinforce the idea that her subsequent slaying of her husband is rooted in these acts, not jealousy over Cassandra, per Aeschylus." CreationDate="2016-12-20T19:02:31.063" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6775" PostId="2193" Score="1" Text="Does the myth of Castor and Pollux count?  According to some accounts, Castor was born immortal, while his brother Pollux was mortal.  With Zeus's permission, Castor gave up half his immortality to Pollux, so after that he spent every other day dead." CreationDate="2016-12-22T10:52:49.637" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="6773" PostId="2195" Score="1" Text="@bleh Seems folkloric to me, but it's hard to tell without more context. The Earth: Can you provide links, pictures, etc. get more information?" CreationDate="2016-12-21T17:55:32.327" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6774" PostId="2195" Score="1" Text="It's folklore because it's expressive culture that has been passed down for centuries without using writing and that has many local and other variations. The (British) National Horse Brass Society has a [nice website](http://www.nationalhorsebrasssociety.org.uk) with photographs of many designs. The [Museum of Witchcraft and Magic's website](http://museumofwitchcraftandmagic.co.uk/object/horse-brass-amulet/) refers to the notion that the oldest types are those that feature &quot;designs such as moons, suns and hearts&quot;. There's also [a Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_brass)." CreationDate="2016-12-21T22:57:32.610" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="6784" PostId="2197" Score="0" Text="Many thanks for this excellent answer. So the tradition was observed in several parts of London, which I didn't know. I wonder whether these were concentrated within a short distance of Mitcham Fair or spread more widely." CreationDate="2016-12-28T00:08:23.127" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="7721" PostId="2200" Score="1" Text="The Peter Weir film The [Last Wave (aka Black Rain)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Wave#Plot) will be of interest to those interested in the Dreamtime." CreationDate="2017-06-11T21:41:18.123" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6795" PostId="2204" Score="0" Text="I read somewhere that the ability of the *[arktoi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Artemis_at_Brauron)* to travel from Athens to the sanctuary both unescorted and unmolested was considered a validation of civil order.  I have to wonder if Artemis' sheparding of the children is a reflection of sheparding infants from the womb to the world." CreationDate="2016-12-30T17:24:58.023" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6799" PostId="2204" Score="1" Text="That's an interesting idea, and it fits with Stephanie Lynn Budin's idea in [her book](https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B010FS1OZ6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&amp;colid=1FMBZM4EOK1S9&amp;coliid=I34KRLF8B2RKEP) on Artemis - that she's a goddess who oversees transitions." CreationDate="2016-12-31T00:51:49.750" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="6787" PostId="2205" Score="0" Text="Much of the modern mythos may derive from the fiction of Robert Anton Wilson.  I do recall he makes a connection with the Freemasons, who are an actual, secretive society." CreationDate="2016-12-29T19:24:20.363" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6788" PostId="2205" Score="5" Text="@DukeZhou The Illuminati were (are?) also an actual 18th century society,  a Bavarian offshoot of Freemasonry." CreationDate="2016-12-29T19:40:38.107" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6810" PostId="2205" Score="0" Text="@Yannis Bavarian? There are even French Illuminati. &quot;Illuminati&quot; is an Italian word meaning &quot;Enlightened ones.&quot; It refers more to the higher degrees of Freemasonry than it does to Freemasons from a certain region. See [_Grand Orient Freemasonry Unmasked_](https://librivox.org/the-war-of-antichrist-with-the-church-and-christian-civilization-by-george-f-dillon/)." CreationDate="2017-01-01T21:14:03.813" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="6812" PostId="2205" Score="2" Text="I was referring to the group that first used the term in their name @Geremia. Yes, others have also used the term, variously. Also, it comes from Latin, not Italian." CreationDate="2017-01-02T03:34:35.893" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6817" PostId="2205" Score="0" Text="@Yannis When you say Bavarian, are you referring to Adam Weishaupt?" CreationDate="2017-01-02T15:33:49.097" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="6826" PostId="2205" Score="0" Text="@Geremia Yes I think his is the group I had in mind. I don't think there's an earlier use of the term in an organization's name, although I could be mistaken." CreationDate="2017-01-03T04:56:36.887" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6790" PostId="2206" Score="2" Text="Very interesting question!  One tends to think of Carthage in relation to war elephants in the antiquity, so the India angle is cool.  I don't know much about conflicts with the sub-continent prior to Alexander stopping on the border, but the Roman Empire never extended to that border.  Possibly ingrained, Hellenistic animosity?" CreationDate="2016-12-30T00:19:31.960" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6791" PostId="2206" Score="1" Text="@DukeZhou Now that you mention it, the way the dragon utilizes stealth and mobility against raw power could perhaps serve as poetic reminder of Alexander's tactics in the Hydaspes." CreationDate="2016-12-30T00:46:19.880" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6792" PostId="2206" Score="1" Text="@Yannis Does the term &quot;Indian dragons&quot; in this question refer to dragons in Hinduism?" CreationDate="2016-12-30T04:20:41.390" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6793" PostId="2206" Score="0" Text="Not necessarily @KVickneshvara. I'm using Indian more as a geographical term than a cultural one. Do you think that should be clarified in the question?" CreationDate="2016-12-30T07:59:31.487" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6796" PostId="2206" Score="0" Text="@Yannis I'm not sure but I suppose so, due to the fact that the closest thing to &quot;dragons&quot; in Hinduism is &quot;nagas&quot; and I don't think that snakes have any enmity with elephants, of all creatures." CreationDate="2016-12-30T17:34:46.353" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="11989" PostId="2206" Score="1" Text="Your question reminded me of a very popular story of Elephant and a crocodile.- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gajendra_Moksha - The crocodile is called as  Makara in this story." CreationDate="2019-10-10T17:01:31.387" UserId="6339" />
  <row Id="6798" PostId="2207" Score="1" Text="&quot;By the fifth century at least, Croesus had become a figure of myth, who stood outside the conventional restraints of chronology.&quot; [J.A.S. Evans, &quot;What Happened to Croesus?&quot; The Classical Journal 74.1 (October 1978:34-40) examines the legend and the date 547 BC.]" CreationDate="2016-12-30T19:27:29.147" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6802" PostId="2209" Score="1" Text="Sigi, however, isn't one of the heroes of the saga, he's a relatively minor character. And not only is he a murderer, but he further dishonors himself by lying about it. Yet, he is rewarded by Odin, and ends up a king. My personal theory is that stories like that were meant to inspire men to join the expeditions in the [migration period](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Period). Something like saying &quot;it doesn't matter who you are, or what you've done, join us in invading &lt;random territory&gt; and you'll end up filthy rich&quot;." CreationDate="2016-12-31T20:05:49.827" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6819" PostId="2209" Score="0" Text="There may also be the idea that exceptional people do exceptional things, which marks them for potential greatness.  Although Sigi may be merely an introductory character, his story does follow an overall pattern." CreationDate="2017-01-02T19:27:53.403" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6888" PostId="2209" Score="0" Text="As I get more familiar with the story, I'm realizing you are correct. Sigi may be a minor character, but his story does set the tone for the rest of the saga. There are numerous other instances where Odin (or someone who is presumed to be Odin) intervenes without any apparent reason or consistency. Sometimes the Allfather favors the Volsungs, and sometimes he does not, without any clear explanation for his mood changes." CreationDate="2017-01-10T08:13:53.353" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6974" PostId="2209" Score="0" Text="@Yannis [thought you'd be interested in this link](http://norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/the-aesir-gods-and-goddesses/odin/): &quot;Paradoxically, Odin is often the favorite god and helper of outlaws, those who had been banished from society for some especially heinous crime, as well. Like Odin, many such men were exceptionally strong-willed warrior-poets who were apathetic to established societal norms&quot;" CreationDate="2017-01-19T20:10:27.680" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10775" PostId="2211" Score="0" Text="Jesse Byock, in the title of Chapter 1 of his translation of *The Saga of the Volsungs,* claims Odin guides him from &quot;the Otherworld.&quot;" CreationDate="2018-07-20T20:33:24.327" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="10776" PostId="2211" Score="0" Text="You should post this as an answer @BrianDonovan" CreationDate="2018-07-21T08:34:51.283" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6808" PostId="2214" Score="5" Text="*I arrived at a website* could you provide a link to the website?" CreationDate="2017-01-01T18:02:43.507" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6820" PostId="2215" Score="1" Text="As I recall, Odin himself is quite tricky, and often evidences what modern people would characterize as bad behavior." CreationDate="2017-01-02T19:29:16.933" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6806" PostId="2216" Score="2" Text="Papa was an elephant?" CreationDate="2017-01-01T17:32:08.770" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6830" PostId="2217" Score="0" Text="How do you account for different races I wonder?" CreationDate="2017-01-04T05:08:56.093" UserId="3302" />
  <row Id="6818" PostId="2219" Score="7" Text="The question asks specifically about Illuminati, rather than Freemasonry. It might be helpful if you could add a brief explanation to clarify why resources on Freemasonry would answer a question about Illuminati?" CreationDate="2017-01-02T17:06:46.103" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="10726" PostId="2221" Score="1" Text="They are somewhat correct. Austins death in the show is by rat poison. His sin is gluttony, and The Executioner (antagonist) thought that it was close enough to use rat poison instead of rats. So, it isn't completely accurate, but it's very close, and represents a more modern version." CreationDate="2018-06-12T17:16:36.737" UserId="5129" />
  <row Id="6832" PostId="2222" Score="0" Text="From Uranus' blood?" CreationDate="2017-01-04T10:21:52.763" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6833" PostId="2222" Score="0" Text="@KVickneshvara Do you have a source?" CreationDate="2017-01-04T15:05:37.160" UserId="3157" />
  <row Id="6852" PostId="2222" Score="0" Text="@miltonuat I remember reading them at some websites which I have forgotten.Also, I think it's said that satyrs came from Uranus' blood (when Cronus chopped him) in Rick Riordan's book, _Percy Jackson and the Greek Gods_." CreationDate="2017-01-05T11:09:07.027" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7001" PostId="2222" Score="0" Text="@K Vickneshvara That's Correct." CreationDate="2017-01-24T10:50:38.717" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="6821" PostId="2226" Score="0" Text="I cut out the rest because that did not address the question." CreationDate="2017-01-02T21:02:49.210" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6822" PostId="2226" Score="1" Text="Thanks, but that edit clearly conflicts with the authors intent, so I have rolled back." CreationDate="2017-01-02T21:19:45.783" UserId="899" />
  <row Id="7786" PostId="2233" Score="0" Text="Based on what I've found so far *(thanks to @Mario for running down the Roscher!)* it seems clear that Iudaios was a leader, not a deity. &quot;Others assert that in the reign of Isis the overflowing population of Egypt, led by Hierosolymus and Judas, discharged itself into the neighbouring countries.&quot; [Tacitus, *The History* 5.2](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0080%3Abook%3D5%3Achapter%3D2).  It's *possible* that divine Typhon lineage of Hierosolymus and Judas derives from a pre-modern source, but I haven't found anything yet in the Classical literature." CreationDate="2017-06-25T01:37:02.453" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7900" PostId="2233" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou So Judas is originally an Egyptian name and not a Hebrew one?" CreationDate="2017-07-23T05:44:49.663" UserId="812" />
  <row Id="7905" PostId="2233" Score="0" Text="It's a Greek transliteration Ἰούδας *(Ioúdas)* that comes to mean [&quot;Jew/Jewess/Judaea&quot;](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=*%29ioudai%3Dos&amp;la=greek&amp;can=*%29ioudai%3Dos0) and is originally derived from the Hebrew [יְהוּדָה‏](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%93%D7%94#Hebrew) *(y'hudá)*.  I don't know if there is an Egyptian link, but going by the New Testament, the name Judah is used for a son of Jacob and preceeding the time in Egypt." CreationDate="2017-07-24T22:19:07.460" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7906" PostId="2233" Score="0" Text="So when you talk about Hierosolymus and Judas you are talking for greek transliterations of a name in another language? And when was the reign of Isis -before the Jews went to Egypt or afterwards? Are Judas and Hierosolymus two jewish characters?" CreationDate="2017-07-25T00:42:36.060" UserId="812" />
  <row Id="7907" PostId="2233" Score="0" Text="I'm not sure of your frame of reference re: &quot;reign of Isis&quot;.  You can hit me up in chat if you want to explain further.  The early Hebrew represent a schism from the polytheistic religions of the region at that time." CreationDate="2017-07-25T00:54:01.343" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7039" PostId="2235" Score="0" Text="The bear is depicted in the Beowulf story. Some version describe the Grendel with a bear head and the cult of the Grendel's mother dress as bears. Maybe the bear is considered an evil totem of sorts." CreationDate="2017-02-01T23:32:43.160" UserId="3412" />
  <row Id="10684" PostId="2235" Score="1" Text="I remember a myth about the origin of iron and steel: one of both came from the paw prints of a bear and the other from the prints of a wolf. I can't seem to find it anymore though. If anybody has a tip about this it would be much appreciated." CreationDate="2018-05-25T16:26:45.580" UserId="5088" />
  <row Id="10906" PostId="2235" Score="0" Text="Wikipedia entry https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker" CreationDate="2018-10-11T23:32:21.843" UserId="3655" />
  <row Id="10907" PostId="2235" Score="1" Text="It is proposed by some authors that the berserkers drew their power from the bear and were devoted to the bear cult, which was once widespread across the northern hemisphere.[6][9]  Wikipedia entry https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker" CreationDate="2018-10-11T23:34:35.810" UserId="3655" />
  <row Id="6846" PostId="2237" Score="2" Text="The elk (or moose) is also absent, isn't it? As opposed to reindeers which were nomadically domesticated (by the sami people in the far north and by not vikings AFAIK). I wonder if it has to do with elks and bears being undomesticated large mammal as the reason for why they aren't present in connection with the norse gods. And if it says something about the function of animals in their mythology. Those are the two largest animals in Scandinavia and they get alot of attention still today." CreationDate="2017-01-04T22:03:12.610" UserId="3326" />
  <row Id="6851" PostId="2237" Score="2" Text="The bear man is probably depicting a berserker. If memory serves berserker literally means bear cape." CreationDate="2017-01-05T10:53:01.667" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6847" PostId="2238" Score="3" Text="Yes, there might be something here: the lynx and wolverine are also absent, and the boar has only one representative, and that is a construct rather than a &quot;natural&quot; animal. However, there are deers, grazing the leaves of Yggdrasil. Also, while you can make a pet out of a wolf, doing so is much harder than raising a dog. And you can actually tame bears: dancing bears were once common, and there is a nice short saga about and icelander who brings a tame polar bear to the court of king Sven of Denmark." CreationDate="2017-01-05T08:13:21.553" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6853" PostId="2238" Score="1" Text="@andejons The alternative cost of domesticating a bear (or an elk) is to eat its meat and use or sell its hide. The meat and skin of a wolf is not as competitive, so it is relatively more economical to domesticate them. Maybe the myths of the animals had to do with the relationship between human and animal. Bears are not social animals and they have no other predator than post-stone age humans." CreationDate="2017-01-05T13:54:18.523" UserId="3326" />
  <row Id="6857" PostId="2238" Score="1" Text="You need to have a wolf pup be less than three weeks to be able to tame it with any reliability, and even then it will not be as reliable as a dog would. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolves_as_pets_and_working_animals If you want a pet wolf, you pretty much has to deliberately go about getting one." CreationDate="2017-01-05T16:17:22.567" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6861" PostId="2238" Score="0" Text="This is really interesting. What's the name of the saga about the Icelander with the polar bear? I think the fact that bears aren't social and not particularly economic explains a lot. I never thought about lynx and wolverine, but it's true that the other larger predators don't feature in Norse myth either." CreationDate="2017-01-05T22:14:21.857" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="6879" PostId="2238" Score="0" Text="@solsdottir It's a tattr, Auðunar þáttr vestfirzka." CreationDate="2017-01-08T19:54:50.713" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6884" PostId="2239" Score="1" Text="The McKinnell article does a great job of examining the complexity of the poem and an extraordinarily convincing case as to its meaning.  It's hard not to see a method to Loki's &quot;madness&quot;—he bests the gods in a battle of wits, shows himself to be heroic in not fearing the ordeal of his binding, and forces the gods' hands in undertaking his binding which will lead directly to their downfall." CreationDate="2017-01-09T20:18:34.680" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6858" PostId="2240" Score="1" Text="@Gibet lol :) I think the question is more about whether there is an historical basis for Atlantis and Wonder Woman.  This subject was actually covered in &quot;Classics 101&quot; when I was in school because it presents a familiar embarkation point for the uninitiated of recent generations." CreationDate="2017-01-05T16:35:52.603" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6874" PostId="2240" Score="0" Text="[Relevant meta post.](http://meta.mythology.stackexchange.com/q/384/183)" CreationDate="2017-01-07T22:04:03.907" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="6856" PostId="2241" Score="1" Text="Troubadours had the [*tenso*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenso): it wasn't necessarily insults but was definitely a debate/an exchange, in verse, between two poets." CreationDate="2017-01-05T16:01:09.317" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="6949" PostId="2241" Score="0" Text="What's a &quot;spiritual forebearer&quot;? Trading insults via verse has long preceded the Norse." CreationDate="2017-01-17T02:00:27.877" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="6950" PostId="2241" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer take it to mean &quot;in the spirit of&quot;.  What are some of the pre-Norse precedents?" CreationDate="2017-01-17T19:16:46.173" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6877" PostId="2242" Score="0" Text="The Atlantis aspect of this question makes it a duplicate of http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/1603/62, so I removed it." CreationDate="2017-01-08T02:17:20.437" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6801" PostId="2243" Score="3" Text="I didn't downvote, but one suggestion would be to expand the question to elaborate more on how Baphomet represents duality.  In terms of modern binary, it comes from [Leibniz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_number#History) who was inspired by the binary notation system of the [I Ching](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching), but the I Ching is distinct from [Western Hermeticism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeticism)." CreationDate="2016-12-31T19:50:44.213" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6866" PostId="2243" Score="1" Text="Relating to the original question about binaries, you may want to look at Dionysus. As a dying/resurrected god, he is a precursor to Christ, yet he is also depicted as the &quot;horned god&quot;, a characteristic that came to be associated with Satan. Transvestism, which involves merging characteristics of both sexes, is also an element of Bacchic ritual. Dionysus has chthonic elements and is associated with animalistic behavior, but is also an Olympian, elevated to heavenly status. *(If you ever feel like re-asking the question on the binary nature of Baphomet, I'll go into more detail;)*" CreationDate="2017-01-06T17:33:02.007" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6875" PostId="2243" Score="3" Text="This is technically the second posting of a question that previously had an answer. I merged that version with this version, as this version is substantially better. I've also tried to clear up some of the comments from both questions; I hope folks will let me know if I messed up somewhere. Thanks." CreationDate="2017-01-07T22:10:50.457" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="6862" PostId="2244" Score="1" Text="Is &quot;female agency&quot; really that uncommon in &quot;the mythology and sagas of Northern and Western Europe&quot;? In fact, based on what I've read stories with &quot;female agency&quot; are more common than stories without &quot;female agency&quot;" CreationDate="2017-01-05T23:20:00.333" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6863" PostId="2244" Score="1" Text="I'm torn about this question. On one hand, it's a common miscomception that &quot;the mythology and sagas of Northern and Western Europe&quot; feature helpless women, if they feature women at all, and this question might go some way towards correcting that. On the other, I almost feel like this question should be closed as too broad." CreationDate="2017-01-05T23:21:46.157" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6865" PostId="2244" Score="1" Text="@Hamlet My original inclination was to ask this question about world mythology in general, but I narrowed it to this region b/c it's an area where I more limited knowledge. (Compare to the Classical canon where one could overload the thread with Euripides' heroines alone.) The Ulster cycle references figures like Scáthach and Aoife, and Medb is pretty central. We know about shield maidens and Boudica, so clearly there is a tradition of heroic women in these regions and I'm hoping for more info on that." CreationDate="2017-01-06T17:18:55.623" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6872" PostId="2244" Score="0" Text="I also think it's worth noting that, by all accounts, ancient Greek civilization was notoriously repressive towards women, and that although you have more stories of goddesses, it is not until the rise of drama that you get Antigone as a towering figure, and the Euripidean heroines.  Similarly, it is with Ibsen, a figure as important in theater as the Greek dramatists, where you start to get characters like [Hedda Gabler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedda_Gabler)." CreationDate="2017-01-07T19:59:01.460" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6871" PostId="2246" Score="0" Text="&quot; eating his offspring&quot; are you saying that the apple is Enki's offspring?" CreationDate="2017-01-07T01:07:54.907" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6873" PostId="2249" Score="1" Text="Great answer!  Important point that the popular visual depiction of Baphomet seems to derive from Levi in in the mid-1800's as opposed to the medieval period.  Also an important point about the &quot;collective imagination&quot; out of which a mythology of the Templars has arisen." CreationDate="2017-01-07T20:22:02.867" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6878" PostId="2249" Score="0" Text="So it does appear the Catholic Templars were 1st/2nd ish.  The funny thing is the fact they worshiped it implies that weren't probably following there catholic beliefs so it could very well from what understand be associated with both catholic templars and satanism." CreationDate="2017-01-08T17:11:06.963" UserId="3302" />
  <row Id="6891" PostId="2250" Score="2" Text="Hierosolyma is Jerusalem. I wonder where did this author come up with this story. What is plut. is. et osir. and the number 31?" CreationDate="2017-01-10T19:40:50.010" UserId="812" />
  <row Id="6893" PostId="2250" Score="0" Text="@freethinker36 I'm not really sure. It might be a reference to some other work." CreationDate="2017-01-10T21:42:18.247" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="7131" PostId="2250" Score="4" Text="@freethinker36 It's Plutarch &quot;On Isis and Osiris.&quot; It's a late work and probably reflects a common Graeco-Syrian belief in the first/second century CE." CreationDate="2017-03-02T22:19:17.480" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7780" PostId="2250" Score="1" Text="_Hierosolymus_ is the Latinised spelling of _Hierosolymos_, so both are technically correct. Thank you for this very nice translation. The only thing I would change therein is the interpretation of _Sparten_, which seems to be, actually, &quot;Spartoi&quot; (or &quot;Sparti&quot; if you want to Latinise it) rather than &quot;Spartans.&quot; Oudaios (or Latinised _Udaeus_) was one of the Spartoi, &quot;Sown Ones,&quot; who were the armed warriors that grew up spontaneously from the teeth of the Theban dragon which Kadmos [Cadmus] had killed before planting/ _sowing_ these teeth into the ground upon Athena's advice." CreationDate="2017-06-24T21:20:11.210" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7782" PostId="2250" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra Fixed - 15 letters to comment..." CreationDate="2017-06-24T21:23:16.440" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="7784" PostId="2250" Score="1" Text="[Here is a lexical entry for hierosolyma on Perseus](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=Hierosolyma&amp;la=la&amp;can=hierosolyma0&amp;prior=hierophylax). The entry list Hiĕrū^-sălem as a neut. form, but Tacitus mentions the [Solymi](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=Solymi&amp;la=la&amp;can=solymi0&amp;prior=the) (Trojans.) You can find the [Tacitus on Perseus in English and Latin](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0080%3Abook%3D5%3Achapter%3D2)." CreationDate="2017-06-25T01:18:03.127" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7785" PostId="2250" Score="1" Text="Hierosolymus is much more difficult.  The [only lexical entry I can find is from a French/Latin Lexicon](http://www.dicolatin.com/FR/LAK/0/HIEROSOLYMUS/index.htm) which lists him as &quot;un chef juif&quot;.  I'm finding &quot;Hierosolymos&quot; in several google books in germanic languages, so it may be a &quot;Germanization&quot; of the Latin.  These books seem to be referring to the Tacitus, for instance *[Assyriens og Algyptens Gamle Historie](https://books.google.com/books?id=lixRAQAAMAAJ&amp;lpg=PA118&amp;ots=D5fmc_eqDJ&amp;dq=Hierosolymos&amp;pg=PA118#v=onepage&amp;q=Hierosolymos&amp;f=false)*." CreationDate="2017-06-25T01:27:44.090" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7794" PostId="2250" Score="0" Text="@Mario : LOL! Well in." CreationDate="2017-06-28T05:56:54.423" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6885" PostId="2251" Score="0" Text="Welcome to Stack Mythology!  I hope my answer provides some insight into why there is some ambiguity with the Pandora mythos, and provides you with useful resources to find the answers you're looking for.)" CreationDate="2017-01-09T21:12:42.780" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6880" PostId="2254" Score="0" Text="thank you for your answer.&#xA;sorry I can't remember any more details, the weird thing is, I can't remember where I saw the image, I know I didn't make it up, because it isn't in any way vague, it's clear and highDef." CreationDate="2017-01-09T10:54:04.410" UserDisplayName="user3198" />
  <row Id="6882" PostId="2254" Score="0" Text="@SpartakShahbazyan remembering something in vivid detail doesn't mean it's a real memory. A quick google search of the term &quot;false memories&quot; should suffice." CreationDate="2017-01-09T17:11:37.397" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6883" PostId="2256" Score="0" Text="Excellent answer! (Regarding the use of &quot;capital crime&quot;, I was using it in the sense that &quot;blood money&quot; seems to have been utilized in the sagas as a legitimate form of reparation, and that outlawry was often a punishment as opposed to execution.  Even when blood answers for blood, it seems to be through vendetta as opposed to a formal, judicial process.)" CreationDate="2017-01-09T18:55:43.437" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6886" PostId="2259" Score="2" Text="http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Olympians" CreationDate="2017-01-10T01:29:23.983" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="13979" PostId="2259" Score="1" Text="@TomSol Good find.  I remember that prior question.  I've requested the questions be merged, to maintain the answers on this thread." CreationDate="2020-10-21T23:13:10.487" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6887" PostId="2260" Score="0" Text="Was Dionysus always an Olympian?  Why is Hestia listed as &quot;part time&quot;?" CreationDate="2017-01-10T04:24:17.830" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6889" PostId="2260" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Dionysus was born of Zeus and Semele, a mortal, and was later raised to divinity. Hestia politely gave up her throne and took a place by the hearth so Dionysus could be seated with the other gods. However, nobody seems to be able to place this myth definitively, so it may be a post-hoc rationalization for why Hestia was less worshipped and Dionysus more so." CreationDate="2017-01-10T10:48:44.660" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6892" PostId="2260" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum that's more what I was looking for.  A large component of the Dionysus myth is his &quot;return from the East&quot;. Also looking for info on the connection of Hades and Persephone through the [Eleusinian Mysteries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusinian_Mysteries)." CreationDate="2017-01-10T19:43:09.697" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6894" PostId="2260" Score="0" Text="@bleh what about hera (the queen of the gods) and hades (king of the underworld)?" CreationDate="2017-01-11T10:09:00.530" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6897" PostId="2260" Score="0" Text="You are right about hera; however, hades is not an olympian" CreationDate="2017-01-11T13:46:39.020" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="6940" PostId="2260" Score="0" Text="@bleh oh...why not?" CreationDate="2017-01-15T00:46:05.977" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="6895" PostId="2266" Score="1" Text="Your list is missing the [Protogenos Eros](http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Eros.html), who - sadly - had no mommy." CreationDate="2017-01-11T12:38:13.647" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6896" PostId="2266" Score="0" Text="@Yannis thank you, and that further underscores my point. :)" CreationDate="2017-01-11T13:23:45.957" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6899" PostId="2266" Score="1" Text="I miss the original title of this question ;) but it probably is more useful for search with the revised title" CreationDate="2017-01-12T00:16:06.670" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6901" PostId="2266" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum I made the edit because the word &quot;mother' is easier to find than &quot;mommies&quot;. If you want information about Eros, you're going to google &quot;Eros mother&quot;, not &quot;Eros mommy&quot;. Not trying to get into an edit war over this question, but I hope you'll at least consider changing the title." CreationDate="2017-01-12T06:36:55.707" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6903" PostId="2266" Score="1" Text="@Hamlet I understand entirely what you were doing from an SEO perspective; I am playing on the famous children's book *Heather Has Two Mommies*. Also, my question is more about *both* of his parents, not just his mother. I came up with this question because I was researching Zephyros and found a myth where the West Wind was Eros's *father,* so his mother wasn't in question." CreationDate="2017-01-12T10:40:52.063" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6905" PostId="2266" Score="0" Text="If you could somehow work the keyword mother in the question's text, I think we'd be just fine SEO-wise (given that father &amp; parentage already appears)." CreationDate="2017-01-12T11:19:10.037" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6906" PostId="2266" Score="0" Text="@Yannis I've added &quot;mother and father&quot; together, so that should help. Thanks for accommodating my whimsy. :)" CreationDate="2017-01-12T13:30:11.227" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6898" PostId="2267" Score="0" Text="When I was a kid, I remember hearing the story about how when the gods created man and woman and were sewing them closed, the man had a little extra string hanging off but on the woman there was a touch too little.  (Don't know if that originates from actual mythology though, but it certainly has the flavor of legit folklore and seeks to explains both sexual anatomy and possibly why the sexes are attracted to each other--when they merge in sexual union there is just the right amount of string;)" CreationDate="2017-01-11T20:29:44.583" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6902" PostId="2267" Score="0" Text="The only thing it makes me think of is the 'Androgyne myth' in Plato's *Symposium*." CreationDate="2017-01-12T08:48:44.237" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="6904" PostId="2267" Score="1" Text="@DukeZhou Is that supposed to the origin of the phrase &quot;stringing someone along&quot;? ;)" CreationDate="2017-01-12T10:52:18.213" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="6907" PostId="2269" Score="0" Text="Thanks so much, for your answer, it made things clearer and more fascinating for me;)" CreationDate="2017-01-12T13:37:53.447" UserId="1511" />
  <row Id="6908" PostId="2270" Score="0" Text="Wikipedia has a whole category for Virgin goddesses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Virgin_goddesses" CreationDate="2017-01-13T08:54:16.150" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6911" PostId="2270" Score="0" Text="Are you more interested in chaste goddesses or virgin goddesses? Chastity and virginity are not the same, yet are similar in many regards." CreationDate="2017-01-13T15:46:25.697" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="6914" PostId="2270" Score="0" Text="@KenGraham Good point--one could be chaste but not be a virgin. (Question amended)" CreationDate="2017-01-13T17:18:11.130" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6918" PostId="2270" Score="0" Text="And Gefjon is apparantly a virgin, but in the story which she plays a major part, she is not chaste..." CreationDate="2017-01-13T21:26:35.017" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6910" PostId="2272" Score="0" Text="Mary is not considered a goddess by any Christian denomination as far as I am aware of." CreationDate="2017-01-13T15:41:40.747" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="6912" PostId="2272" Score="0" Text="@KenGraham Which is the second sentence of my answer." CreationDate="2017-01-13T15:50:30.110" UserId="3348" />
  <row Id="6913" PostId="2272" Score="0" Text="I'll accept is as she is indeed venerated in certain traditions." CreationDate="2017-01-13T17:15:32.333" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8065" PostId="2272" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Hello! I noticed that you wanted to accept the answer, but you didn't. Why? Do you need some additional information, or did you not find the way to do it?" CreationDate="2017-08-13T13:19:12.007" UserId="3348" />
  <row Id="8076" PostId="2272" Score="0" Text="I love this very short answer, but if I accept one answer, it would disincentivize additional answers, which I still hope to attract.  In many conceptions, mother Mary *is* the church, which imo gives her the stature of a goddess, particularly in denominations which venerate saints, semanic distinctions notwithstanding." CreationDate="2017-08-14T19:58:29.397" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6921" PostId="2283" Score="0" Text="Is the ferryman in Hárbarðsljóð also a psychopomp? This is what peaked my interest, I suspected Odin might be the psychopomp in Volsunga, but I wasn't sure if he is compatible with the role. Is there another instance where Odin personally escorts someone to Valhalla, instead of sending his valkyries?" CreationDate="2017-01-14T15:06:59.327" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6923" PostId="2283" Score="0" Text="@Yannis I'm not exactly sure you are asking about a &quot;psychopomp&quot;. Can you give me a chapter number from the Volsungs in which you are talking about?" CreationDate="2017-01-14T18:22:05.370" UserId="3350" />
  <row Id="6924" PostId="2283" Score="0" Text="A [psychopomp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopomp) is a guide of souls to the underworld. The boatman in question ferries Sinfjotli's corpse to the underworld, therefore he acts as a psychopomp. Is that something Odin would do?" CreationDate="2017-01-14T18:46:18.670" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6934" PostId="2283" Score="0" Text="@Yannis Yes, it is exactly something Odin would do/has done. In Hárvarðslijóð Hárbardr is Odin. He says in Stanza 24. &quot;In Valland I was and wars I raised. Princes I angered,  and peace brought never; The noble who fall in the fight hath Odin, And Thor hath the race of the thralls.&quot; So here he suggests he is exactly this. Acting as a ferryman now and having traveled to Valland the &quot;land of the slain&quot;." CreationDate="2017-01-14T21:34:08.483" UserId="3350" />
  <row Id="6937" PostId="2283" Score="0" Text="I'm sorry, but I don't think I follow. Yes, we know that those who fall in battle will find themselves next to Odin in Valhalla. However, Odin does _not_ personally escort them there, does he? The boatman in Volsunga does escort a fallen, Sinfjotli (even though he did not fall honorably in battle, which as I understand is required for Odin to get involved). Is there any indication that Hárbardr fulfils a similar role? Or is the only thing that links him with the figure in the Volsunga that they are both ferrymen?" CreationDate="2017-01-14T21:48:38.817" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6928" PostId="2285" Score="0" Text="That is some good context.  I was recently referred to this very compelling paper by John McKinnel &quot;[Motivation in Lokasenna](http://www.vsnrweb-publications.org.uk/Saga-Book%20XXII.pdf)&quot; where he makes the point that &quot;most verbal battles are not motiveless, but have some practical intention and result&quot;, listing the Vafþrúðnismál, Alvíssmál, among others, and the Hárbarðsljóð, which is a flyting between Thor and Halbard the Ferryman." CreationDate="2017-01-14T20:57:06.983" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6929" PostId="2285" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Exactly. Most of these instances of flyting occur in the context of great men. In Lokasenna Halbard rips into Thor by suggesting that Sif is a whore, but Thor never counters it, leaving us to understand that he was accepting of her promiscuity. It should also be noted that Halbard in that story is actually Odin in disguise." CreationDate="2017-01-14T21:01:27.760" UserId="3350" />
  <row Id="6930" PostId="2285" Score="0" Text="which goes a long way to explaining why it's conclusion is not fatal (as in most battle of wits with the Allfather ;)" CreationDate="2017-01-14T21:03:14.897" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6919" PostId="2286" Score="0" Text="&quot;Yggr&quot; is a known byname of Odin and means &quot;terrible one&quot;, &quot;Yggdrasil&quot; means 'Odin's horse'. The tree he hangs from is never named in the myths, but given the etymology, scholars are in agreement that it was Yggdrasil" CreationDate="2017-01-14T12:16:50.470" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6920" PostId="2286" Score="0" Text="@andejons you are definitely right. I've updated my comment to explain on this further :)" CreationDate="2017-01-14T13:02:58.907" UserId="3350" />
  <row Id="6926" PostId="2287" Score="6" Text="It reminds me of Virgil casting Aeneas as the ancestor of Romulus and Remus.  Linking the founding of a city or race to heroic forebearers is quite common in Classical mythology.  We know about the Varangian Guard and the Roman Empire extended fairly close to Denmark, so such a migration wouldn't seem to be implausible." CreationDate="2017-01-14T20:31:40.600" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6932" PostId="2287" Score="6" Text="This kind of pseudo-etymology linked to the origin of medieval people is common. Snorri tells a similar story of how &quot;Aesir&quot; means &quot;Asians&quot;, and that they were really refugees from Troy." CreationDate="2017-01-14T21:11:17.160" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6943" PostId="2293" Score="1" Text="This is an interesting take, but I feel like you're missing some important facts about the story. I would take a look at the points raised in DukeZhou's answer." CreationDate="2017-01-15T19:05:52.093" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6944" PostId="2295" Score="0" Text="It certainly makes sense that he would have come from the highest rank of Angels per his status as leader of the fallen angels." CreationDate="2017-01-15T19:12:06.727" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6945" PostId="2295" Score="0" Text="PS- could you clarify on the references.  Feel like it needs to be explicit that the 3rd highlighted section is Aquinas." CreationDate="2017-01-15T19:14:07.793" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8370" PostId="2295" Score="1" Text="I think *seraphim* is plural, *seraph* being the singular." CreationDate="2017-09-22T23:05:23.690" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8371" PostId="2295" Score="0" Text="According to Milton, that unfallen being who in falling became Satan (his former name forgotten) was in command of a full third of the heavenly host. That suggests highest rank, though it is conceivable that military officers were systematically drawn from sub-seraphic orders--as in the Mahabharata they are Kshatriya, even though Brahmanas nominally outrank them." CreationDate="2017-09-22T23:09:30.010" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8372" PostId="2295" Score="0" Text="Also in Milton, though Abdiel proved by example that being in the Northern Division of the heavenly host  (under the command of him who would become Satan) did not have to mean that an angel fell--free will and all--still, all the Northern Division *did* in fact fall *except* Abdiel, and no others did. I would need the total n of the heavenly host to run a chi-square test to determine the probability of the null hypothesis that Milton seems here to be assuming, but it is clearly minuscule." CreationDate="2017-09-22T23:11:58.183" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="6947" PostId="2297" Score="0" Text="This answer is correct in saying that the number three is common throughout many mythologies, but it doesn't give an answer as to why such symbolism would apply to Lucifer." CreationDate="2017-01-16T22:00:21.173" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="6946" PostId="2298" Score="0" Text="Do you include suicide through reckless behaviour? I can't recall any cases of direct suicide (even if there might be), but I think it might be possible to find a few examples of redeeming yourself in battle. (It is outside the scope of the question, but otherwise, the most striking example of suicidal behaviour is when Egil receives the news that his son has droned and he tries to starve himself to death.)" CreationDate="2017-01-16T21:25:04.007" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="6948" PostId="2298" Score="0" Text="@andejons I will accept that, and would welcome any analysis you could provide.  (For instance, would Egil's suicide for grief over his son be seen as shameful or potentially admirable?)" CreationDate="2017-01-16T22:15:33.447" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6952" PostId="2301" Score="1" Text="I gave an up-vote for enthusiasm, although I hope you will clarify your answer.  For instance, in Fold: 1, did Artemis ask for or get presents too?  Did she also get a bow when her brother did?  Does Riordan mention anything about Orion and Artemis?  (I'd also strongly recommend a budding scholar like yourself check out Riordan's reprint of Robert Graves' [The Greek Myths](https://www.amazon.com/Greek-Myths-Penguin-Classics-Deluxe/dp/0143106716). It has an excellent index for convenient search on a stunning array of characters from the Myths:)" CreationDate="2017-01-17T19:32:53.333" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6956" PostId="2301" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Thanks for the upvote.In fold 1, Artemis asked for everything.&quot;&quot;" CreationDate="2017-01-18T02:32:45.900" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="6958" PostId="2301" Score="0" Text="Not again! Sorry, sorry.   She had Hephaestus make a bow for her. I don't remember Riordan telling anything about when Apollo got his bow. About Orion, there are several different versions. He was an excellent hunter, that is agreed upon. He joined the hunt, that too is. What follows is unclear. Some legends say he had lustful thoughts, or maybe did lustful actions, with one of the hunters. A few say this happened to Artemis herself. Riordan himself goes with the version that he went mad somehow on a hunting trip. Whatever the reason,he got killed by a specially conjured scorpion,made by Gaia." CreationDate="2017-01-18T03:29:19.943" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="6959" PostId="2301" Score="0" Text="Later, he was also made a constellation, alongwith the scorpion. An addition to my previous comment: Since he webt mad in Riordan's version, he started Killin every animal he saw. This angered Artemis and Gaia, so one of them sent the scorpion, which killed him" CreationDate="2017-01-18T03:34:22.830" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="10757" PostId="2301" Score="0" Text="Hey Malay!  Haven't seen your mytho-mind on SE:Mythology lately..." CreationDate="2018-07-12T20:00:51.003" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10758" PostId="2301" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Yeah. Sorry about that, but as you might see from my intense activity on Math.SE, I've been preparing for Math Olympiads." CreationDate="2018-07-12T20:01:58.210" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="10759" PostId="2301" Score="0" Text="I will definitely check out your math posts!  *(I'm currently banned from regular math for asking too many naive question about set theory and sudoku, and general intransigence--but still quite interested in the field in general, having have very poor mathematical training as a child, but I can still vote! ;)*  PS: Good luck at the Math Olympiads!" CreationDate="2018-07-12T20:19:14.497" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6954" PostId="2303" Score="0" Text="It's an interesting point on honor/shame as a function of the perception of others.  This perception by others is definitely a factor with Ajax. (Also worth noting, Ajax's first impulse was to kill those who had impugned his honor, but he was led astray by the gods.  With the possibility of vengeance removed, suicide seems to the the only remaining option for him.)" CreationDate="2017-01-17T20:58:55.657" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6963" PostId="2304" Score="0" Text="Excellent answer.  Can I ask if the highlighted portion is a direct quote (in which case it should be referenced more specifically) or an amalgamation of the information which you yourself put together based on the works cited at the end of the answer?" CreationDate="2017-01-18T17:03:26.030" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6964" PostId="2304" Score="0" Text="Thank you for your answer. I know that Hindus do not frown to sexual activities, but still, some of the depictions are hard to accept from even a very open mind." CreationDate="2017-01-18T21:39:57.150" UserId="1511" />
  <row Id="6978" PostId="2304" Score="0" Text="@LadyFickle Depictions of sexual conduct from the pre-Industrial era can be shockingly graphic, but from what I recall, erotic Japanese paintings, for instance, were also extraordinarily explicit.  We westerners tends to view these things through a culturally Christian filter, but although excessive lust was definitely cautioned against in Eastern Cultures, sex and sexual activity doesn't seem to have had quite the same stigma." CreationDate="2017-01-19T21:11:59.717" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6980" PostId="2304" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou The highlighted portion is an amalgamation, as you mentioned." CreationDate="2017-01-20T02:19:39.227" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="6971" PostId="2305" Score="0" Text="I see you shoehorn mythology in here, but I do think this is a better fit for Hinduism.SE." CreationDate="2017-01-19T06:33:30.537" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7029" PostId="2305" Score="1" Text="@C. M. Weimer It might be, but this is about India. Posting it in Hinduism SE would be to say that India is synonymous with Hinduism, which is *wrong*." CreationDate="2017-01-31T08:02:54.053" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="7030" PostId="2305" Score="2" Text="@MalayTheDynamo I think that takes an anachronistic look at the development of Hinduism. Which religious groups in India call the cow sacred but do not link themselves to any branch of Hinduism?" CreationDate="2017-01-31T14:51:09.450" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7031" PostId="2305" Score="0" Text="@C. M. Weimer The cow is pretty much respected across India. Sure, Hinduism was a large influence, but there are other sects as well. The *Adivasis*, for example. In fact, in India, eating beef is pretty much taboo in the lower and middle classes, no matter whether you are Hindu, Muslim, or Christian." CreationDate="2017-01-31T15:05:05.253" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="7032" PostId="2305" Score="0" Text="@MalayTheDynamo But who influenced whom? Muslims and Christians certainly acquired beef avoidance after interacting with Hindus. I don't know too much about the Adivasi, but I suspect it's similar." CreationDate="2017-01-31T15:08:42.657" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7033" PostId="2305" Score="1" Text="@C. M. Weimer About the Muslim and Christian you're right, but the Adivasis are largely- almost completely- independent from Hinduism. Indeed, their name literally means the 'Beginning Livers', meaning they lived there before the Vedic Aryans brought primitive Hinduism with them. And it is fact that the Aryans described them as nature or animal worshippers, including the cow." CreationDate="2017-01-31T15:18:38.680" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="7043" PostId="2305" Score="1" Text="@C.M.Weimer The intent of the question was to learn more about the mythological roots of this custom specifically.." CreationDate="2017-02-02T22:51:23.687" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7439" PostId="2307" Score="2" Text="Excellent answer.  I was reading something recently about one of the pre-Socratic philosophers who believed water was the origin of all things." CreationDate="2017-04-07T17:52:35.860" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6987" PostId="2308" Score="3" Text="When discussing syncretism between Norse and Christian mythology the movement of influence in my opinion is typically from Christian to Norse. Consider this question and answer: http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/918/did-myths-involving-loki-influence-christian-myths" CreationDate="2017-01-22T20:25:29.243" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="6988" PostId="2308" Score="1" Text="@fresbend  Absolutely, thus the impetus for this question.  For instance, [Tacitus writing about what we believe to be Odin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin#Roman_Era_to_Migration_Period)." CreationDate="2017-01-22T20:44:53.943" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6989" PostId="2308" Score="1" Text="The word &quot;Armageddon&quot; appears but 1 time in the entire Bible, &amp; in the reference in which it occurs it is explicitly defined as the name of a place, regarding which location nothing further is ever mentioned in the book in which it appears. The Ragnarök, on the other hand, is an elaborately described cataclysmic event in various written works from the so-called mediaeval period." CreationDate="2017-01-23T22:18:57.247" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6990" PostId="2308" Score="1" Text="Presumably when you use the word &quot;Armageddon&quot; you're employing the more modern pop-culture definition which has come to embody the most dramatic of the disasters envisioned in the Book of the Apocalypse, whose descriptions seem to culminate in a universal destruction event, right? Because otherwise there really couldn't be much of anything to compare between the Biblical reference &amp; the Norse expectation. I ask because I want to be sure I don't misunderstand your meaning &amp; then launch from there into a detailed description of something you're not actually referring to in your Question." CreationDate="2017-01-23T22:21:03.887" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="6994" PostId="2308" Score="0" Text="@Adrinka What I was actually wondering about is the connection of Northern European mythology with the the Book of Revelation itself, per the connection of those cultures with the Roman Empire and earlier migrations into Greece. If we believe Odin myths to have existed at the time of Tacitus, they are presumably even older, and so may be the idea of Ragnarok. (It can be argued that Christianity is distinctly more European than Semitic.)" CreationDate="2017-01-23T23:18:48.463" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6995" PostId="2308" Score="0" Text="@Adrinka With that said, I’d be highly interested in an answer about subsequent influence in the popular imagination!" CreationDate="2017-01-23T23:19:10.423" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7042" PostId="2308" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I was using Armageddon informally for search purposes, but I take your point and have revised the title to add clarity for experts." CreationDate="2017-02-02T22:37:35.583" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7044" PostId="2308" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Regarding the absorption element, it's something I'm trying to tip-toe around as the mythologists understanding of these questions and hypotheses is quite different from how they might be regarded by an adherent to the religion.  (i.e. don't want to offend anyone, but this is a subject I'm quite interested in).  That's why I'm not directly answering your question #2. No value judgement from me beyond that, except to note the incredibly valuable role of Christianity in introducing the concepts of redemption and love of the other as the self to a wide audience." CreationDate="2017-02-02T22:58:32.080" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6972" PostId="2309" Score="0" Text="[andejons' answer](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/2184/57) on my [Why does the dragon emerge at the dawn of the new world?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/1370/57) question provides further insight on the circular nature of Norse cosmology." CreationDate="2017-01-19T19:36:38.623" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6973" PostId="2309" Score="0" Text="Do you have more details on the specific aspects of Frashokereti?  Similarities with Revelations/Ragnarok may be said to include the Sun being swallowed up, a great serpent rising from the sea, the dead rising, fire raining down upon the world, and a horn sounding to signal the onset of the end..." CreationDate="2017-01-19T19:56:03.847" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6975" PostId="2309" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou There's a summary in the Eschatology section of the linked article. The story includes the resurrection of the dead, a battle between good and evil (spoiler: good wins ;), and a final judgment. More importantly, the story concludes with the world in unity with its creator, Ahura Mazda. There are several evil serpentine characters in the Avesta (e.g. Azi Dahag), but I'm not entirely sure if any of them features prominently in the end times story." CreationDate="2017-01-19T20:24:35.987" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="6983" PostId="2309" Score="0" Text="Excellent answer, btw.  It seems unquestionable that Zoroastrian ideas were a factor in Armageddon, but that does not exclude the possibility of influence from European sources.  (I'm adding some detail to my question regarding ancient migrations into Greece and the Hellenization of the Levant to further support this idea.)" CreationDate="2017-01-20T21:25:29.087" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6986" PostId="2309" Score="1" Text="@DukeZhou Thank you. One more possibility worth exploring is whether some of the similarities could be attributed to a common ancestor. This is pure speculation, but one example could be the death of Laocoon and his sons serving as a template for the serpent rising from the sea motif." CreationDate="2017-01-21T09:49:24.723" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7198" PostId="2315" Score="0" Text="Excellent answer and I will only add (for those not familiar with the matherial) that Han here refers to the [lineality of Liu Bang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_emperors_family_tree_(early)), as opposed to the Han ethnicity.  I'm only holding off accepting the answer because I'm hoping someone with access to the [histories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Han_dynasty_historians) the Romance was based on may weigh in.  (There is a single Burton Watson translation of Sima Qian in English, but the less famous historians don't even have that.)" CreationDate="2017-03-09T18:43:36.087" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="6985" PostId="2317" Score="0" Text="Excellent commentary.  I'm racking my brain to remember examples of infanticide in Greek Mythology, but one theme that seems to be consistent is a degree of distancing (i.e. Agamemnon and Neoptolemus let the earth itself deliver the mortal blow as opposed to their own hands.  Unwanted infants are exposed, so it is nature itself that dispatches them.)" CreationDate="2017-01-21T00:45:46.823" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7565" PostId="2317" Score="1" Text="@DukeZhou Try Oedipus, Pelias &amp; Neleus and the Roman equivalents Romulus &amp; Remus, Cyrus, Cypselus - it's an old trope." CreationDate="2017-05-08T03:52:49.643" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="8609" PostId="2317" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou and then there's the case of Medea..." CreationDate="2017-11-06T11:16:56.377" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8610" PostId="2317" Score="0" Text="@Spencer Medea, Demophoon, and Pelops all are tangential and rather interesting." CreationDate="2017-11-06T13:26:03.233" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="11598" PostId="2321" Score="3" Text="The thing to remember about *Inferno* is that, while it is presented as a religious, cosmological odyssey through the afterlife, it is also a commentary on current affairs of Alighieri's time. Many of the tormented souls in Hell are real people. They are being punished for their alleged crimes as Dante would want them to be punished, with true poetic justice. For instance, the late Pope Nicholas III is face first in a hole in the third ditch (canto 19). Nicholas mistakes his visitors for Pope Boniface VIII, who is still alive but destined for the next hole. This scene is much like the politica" CreationDate="2017-07-03T15:05:05.083" UserId="3962" />
  <row Id="11636" PostId="2321" Score="3" Text="This is better suited for [Literature SE](https://literature.stackexchange.com/)." CreationDate="2019-06-09T19:43:09.113" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="12368" PostId="2321" Score="0" Text="How do you know he was giving his attention to the sinners &amp; not exploring another realm.Maybe he got lost for thirteen cantos, however long that is..." CreationDate="2020-02-18T14:15:43.457" UserId="5791" />
  <row Id="7020" PostId="2332" Score="1" Text="The least good one, lol.  (Similar to the concept of the [Kali Yuga](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yuga).  Great question and welcome to Stack Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-01-26T17:44:21.640" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7021" PostId="2333" Score="1" Text="I think it's safe to say that if Hesiod had defined a subsequent age to Iron, it would be even worse, based on the overall downward progression.  *(However, he might have been heartened by the concept of the 8 hour work day of the 20th century, and seen it as an improvement, similar to his Heroic Age ;)*" CreationDate="2017-01-26T17:46:58.917" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7023" PostId="2333" Score="1" Text="Not likely, @DukeZhou. After all, Hesiod pointed out the laziness that came with having fire as a negative." CreationDate="2017-01-26T22:41:19.453" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7024" PostId="2333" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Not likely on which supposition--that he would have made ours a worse better age?  (Not arguing, but the way I pose my comment creates an ambiguity;)" CreationDate="2017-01-26T22:43:02.010" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7025" PostId="2333" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Sorry - not likely that he would have viewed an 8 hour work day as an improvement - or rather, his text makes a point of pointing out how fire made life easier for men, and a life of ease leads to laziness, yadda yadda. See Works &amp; Days [42ff.](http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hesiod/works.htm)." CreationDate="2017-01-26T22:51:04.937" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16461" PostId="2333" Score="1" Text="Channeling Hesiodic curmudgeonly pessimism, I would suggest that the metal for our age must be either arsenic or plutonium. Highly toxic either way." CreationDate="2023-09-02T22:51:45.953" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="7022" PostId="2336" Score="4" Text="I feel there might be a bit more to this. Hesiod's Heroic Age includes the Trojan War. For Hesiod, characters like Achilles and Odysseus were heroes. For Romans, however, they were villains, as they traced their ancestry to Aeneas (search for &quot;dirus Ulixes&quot; for clear examples of this). I don't have much more to go on, but I feel Ovid's omission of the Heroic Age may be connected to this." CreationDate="2017-01-26T18:36:54.303" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7037" PostId="2336" Score="1" Text="@yannis Although I'll note that Aneas was also a hero of Troy, especially after Virgil, and the hero painted in the most positive light in the Iliad is arguably Hector.  It's significant that the epic, which starts with the rage of Achilles, ends the funeral of Hector, the Breaker of Horses." CreationDate="2017-02-01T20:48:26.063" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11008" PostId="2337" Score="4" Text="She was not fighting the king of the Greeks, she sais: “Eg var í orrostu með Garðakonungi” (“I was fighting the king of the _Garðar_”). _Garðar_ means “settlements”, and in this context it probably refers to _Garðaríki_ (_ríki_ meaning “kingdom”), which was the Old Norse name of the Varangian settlements in Kievan Rus’. So the translation “I have been in battles with the king of the Greeks” takes some freedoms… But the questions remains: who was this king she fought, and is it really a specific reference at all?" CreationDate="2018-11-02T20:57:39.540" UserId="5503" />
  <row Id="7034" PostId="2342" Score="1" Text="Cassandra's twin brother Helenus was also a prophet." CreationDate="2017-01-31T20:30:28.360" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7049" PostId="2342" Score="0" Text="Amended my answer to provide insight on the strong female associations with divination" CreationDate="2017-02-03T19:33:18.277" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7073" PostId="2346" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Great point! I wasn't even thinking Thebes.  I've amended the answer, with a not about the female aspect of Tiresias." CreationDate="2017-02-14T19:22:32.880" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7124" PostId="2346" Score="0" Text="@C. M. Weimer:  I did specifically mention Teiresias in my original question. He was born as a male, but the gods have transformed him to female. There are various legends of why exactly he could do divination, but living the life of both genders may have given him some sort of insight, or may have put him into the spotlight of the gods and eventually into some situation where the gods have blessed or cursed him with foresight. This is so confusing and unusual that I couldn't decide how it would affect the answer, which is why I asked about diviners other than Teiresias." CreationDate="2017-02-28T18:25:15.970" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="7045" PostId="2354" Score="3" Text="I'm aware that Olympus is a mountain. The question is about the actual dwellings of the gods, the palace itself. The only part of the answer that somewhat addresses the question is your second Illiad quote." CreationDate="2017-02-03T08:43:05.950" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7046" PostId="2354" Score="1" Text="That's about all you get really, it seems a fairly agrarian existence." CreationDate="2017-02-03T10:06:23.810" UserId="31" />
  <row Id="10263" PostId="2354" Score="0" Text="Well, this is merely speculation, but they should have some place to eat the 'nectar of the gods', I'd say, likely a dining room. Perhaps the layout of their dwelling would be similar to that of rich or mighty kings (minus the shrines to the gods, I think), or at least that would be likely for the Greeks to imagine if this isn't written down: the Greek gods, the Olympians in particular were very 'human' for a bunch of gods. We do now that Zeus lived as a baby in a cave for a while, but this is unlikely to be similar to his later residence." CreationDate="2018-03-23T23:25:33.607" UserId="3491" />
  <row Id="10309" PostId="2354" Score="0" Text="@yannis My own best unsubstantiated guess is that the Greeks might have drawn a connection between mount Olympus, which is elevated over the surrounding world, and the buildings on the acropolis, which is elevated over the city state." CreationDate="2018-04-04T16:37:29.847" UserId="4171" />
  <row Id="7048" PostId="2355" Score="0" Text="Extraordinary answer!  (I've taken the liberty of adding some links).  You bring up a very good point about the importance of reading multiple translations, not only for Vedic material, but for any mythological work in translation." CreationDate="2017-02-03T17:30:20.487" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7050" PostId="2355" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Thank you. And I appreciate you taking the time to add links." CreationDate="2017-02-04T12:54:29.840" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="7055" PostId="2363" Score="1" Text="The counterpart to a snake in Australia is very unlikely to be a bull. It is not an indegenous animal." CreationDate="2017-02-06T09:02:39.757" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="7056" PostId="2366" Score="2" Text="Hello. The image was a bit large, and I think it was unnecessarily stealing focus from the question. Feel free to put it back in if you feel it's essential to the question, but please consider using a smaller version if you do." CreationDate="2017-02-06T16:29:38.020" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7057" PostId="2366" Score="0" Text="@yannis I agree, it was too large." CreationDate="2017-02-06T16:43:46.503" UserId="3430" />
  <row Id="7070" PostId="2366" Score="1" Text="ShivShakti and Ardhanaeshwara from Hinduism?" CreationDate="2017-02-11T10:51:45.677" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7077" PostId="2366" Score="0" Text="It's a very long list.  When I get a chance I'll post a few.  (Great question, btw.)  At a high level, a very fine scholar of the classics once related to me that the entirety of Greek Mythology could be understood from the perspective of the &quot;unification of opposites.&quot;  This is a common theme in paganism which tends to be preoccupied with generative cycles. These cycles, for the most part, require the unification of the opposite sexes.  The I-Ching was the first formalization of this idea in binary code, but the principle is pretty universal." CreationDate="2017-02-14T20:47:50.807" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7087" PostId="2366" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Nice summation, have you formed your list yet?" CreationDate="2017-02-19T03:01:57.983" UserDisplayName="user3358" />
  <row Id="7074" PostId="2367" Score="0" Text="As usual, thanks for the expanded perspective and wonderful link!" CreationDate="2017-02-14T19:23:42.570" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7069" PostId="2368" Score="2" Text="Removed the meta-commentary. I don't think this is too broad or _primarily_ opinion based. The question explicitly asks for ancient sources, and there's simply not that many for this to turn into a crapfest where everyone posts their favourite (which is what the close reasons are meant to protect as from). Everyone is - of course - free to vote to close this if they feel differently, but I think it's a good question for the site." CreationDate="2017-02-10T09:29:48.463" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7076" PostId="2369" Score="0" Text="Great point about lost Herculean epics." CreationDate="2017-02-14T20:33:02.613" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7062" PostId="2370" Score="0" Text="Minor quibbles to an otherwise solid write-up: though there is some overlap with the Hittites, they're not really Mesopotamian. Same with Persians. I also can't really figure out what you mean by &quot;finally brought their own gods.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-02-10T00:05:54.967" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14641" PostId="2370" Score="0" Text="You seem to link to some of your analyses but no link is visible" CreationDate="2021-10-03T19:28:35.953" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="7071" PostId="2372" Score="0" Text="This is very broad.  The number of cultures with a deity of the forest or of the sea is enormous." CreationDate="2017-02-14T13:15:10.453" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="7080" PostId="2372" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka Sorry i don't think you get what I mean. By realms, I mean places which are inhabited by specieses in mythology(like my examples on top), not places like oceans and forests because they are parts of the personification of Earth." CreationDate="2017-02-15T09:44:09.077" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7078" PostId="2373" Score="1" Text="Yes, except that Hades the god seem to be the primary holder of the name, while for Hel it is the domain." CreationDate="2017-02-15T07:45:19.733" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7081" PostId="2373" Score="0" Text="@andejons Are you sure she personified her realm? Idk tbh" CreationDate="2017-02-15T09:45:11.157" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7082" PostId="2373" Score="0" Text="@Gibet &quot;Halja&quot; seems to be her gothic name, and her reconstructed name in proto-germanic." CreationDate="2017-02-15T12:00:13.257" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7083" PostId="2373" Score="0" Text="@KVickneshvara: I've added a better source which does explicitly says that she does." CreationDate="2017-02-15T17:46:38.213" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7086" PostId="2373" Score="0" Text="@andejons do you know of any *other* gods like this?" CreationDate="2017-02-15T23:57:55.600" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7118" PostId="2373" Score="0" Text="The Roman god [Orcus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orcus), often represented as a gaping mouth, represented the underworld itself, while Pluto was the god who ruled over it and all the dead." CreationDate="2017-02-23T19:47:59.610" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="7091" PostId="2378" Score="1" Text="Super job! Thanks. Pleasing to see the Christ included. A mythology often neglected because its adherents tend to &quot;hate&quot; the suggestion that it _is_ mythology. Perhaps, as both angel and demon, bringer of light and source of darkness, Lucifer belongs on the list as well?" CreationDate="2017-02-20T07:42:31.560" UserDisplayName="user3358" />
  <row Id="7093" PostId="2378" Score="0" Text="@GypsySpellweaver Lucifer is a great example.  (It's not a subject where I have much academic knowledge, but you should think about posting an answer, since Lucifer, like Dionysus, certainly influenced Lievi's Baphomet.)   I have a personal hypothesis that Loki strongly influenced Lucifer--Loki was the adversary, but also beloved for being clever and interesting (Paradise Lost).  Loki was very close with the Sky Father before transgressing and being cast out.  Like the Morningstar, he is the agent of an apocalypse." CreationDate="2017-02-20T19:37:43.243" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7094" PostId="2378" Score="1" Text="What little this student has to add fits well in a comment, and your comment draws even more parallels than I saw, even knowing the material behind them. Any answer I could give would only detract from, not enhance, the information you've given." CreationDate="2017-02-20T20:12:50.693" UserDisplayName="user3358" />
  <row Id="11652" PostId="2378" Score="1" Text="What's that last image of / for?" CreationDate="2019-06-24T09:43:50.663" UserId="2810" />
  <row Id="11654" PostId="2378" Score="0" Text="@Mithrandir The Fool card from the [Thoth tarot deck](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth_tarot_deck).  *(Most information dense tarot out there, thanks in no small part to the artwork of Lady Frieda Harris.)*" CreationDate="2019-06-24T19:48:50.897" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7089" PostId="2380" Score="1" Text="Can you provide evidence for the Al?" CreationDate="2017-02-20T04:14:21.990" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7095" PostId="2380" Score="0" Text="Also, assuming the word is &quot;AL&quot; not &quot;Ai&quot;.  Is this synonymous with &quot;El&quot;?  As Bleh notes, providing some reference to the specific gnostic texts would be helpful, as this would not generally be considered common knowledge." CreationDate="2017-02-20T22:47:55.363" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7120" PostId="2381" Score="1" Text="Very nice catch.  I think the distinction is that romantic love is fickle and the domain of Eros, whereas marriage was typically an economic undertaking.  (There wasn't much opportunity for women in Ancient Greece, so a good husband was the best guarantee of some status and a decent life.)  Thus it makes sense that Aeschylus would associate marriage with the Moirai and not Eros.  Hera's interest in upholding the sanctity of marriage is rooted in the idea that her status comes, in large part, from being the wife of Zeus." CreationDate="2017-02-24T19:40:58.253" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7103" PostId="2383" Score="0" Text="Although many of the other Pandora questions comment on this, the question itself is distinct, and focused on a particular interpretation of an ambiguity, primarily in the Hesiod, regarding the stuck status of Hope re: the jar lid." CreationDate="2017-02-22T02:25:52.147" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7109" PostId="2383" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Personally, I'd like to see more expansion to differentiate it better from the other thread." CreationDate="2017-02-22T03:23:55.857" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7413" PostId="2383" Score="0" Text="@Phil see my note on Robert Graves, referencing Scholiast on Apollonius Rhodius (ii.1249) states that &quot;Delusive Hope, however, whom Prometheus had also shut in the box, discouraged them by her lies from general suicide.&quot;  I'm thinking hope being a delusion is consistent with your assertion in this question." CreationDate="2017-04-03T01:23:32.527" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7414" PostId="2383" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer see my note on Scholiast and let me know if you think that might be sufficient to differentiate this question, per the asker's assertion that &quot;there is no (true) hope in the world.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-04-03T01:24:56.153" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7415" PostId="2383" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Can you create a meta post on this one, or perhaps ping me in the chat room and explain a bit further. Because of the brevity of the original post and your comments on the scholiast I still can't see the differentiation in place. But I think we can fix it." CreationDate="2017-04-03T01:37:01.853" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7117" PostId="2384" Score="2" Text="In a round-about way, I'm wondering if the valkyries are closest. They chose those fallen in battle to go to Valhalla. Obviously the chosen weren't victorious - they died, but that's only the mortal realm. In the wider sense they gained &quot;victory&quot; in being chosen by the valkyries to enter Valhalla, and presumably by being &quot;heroes&quot; for others to follow. A personal &quot;victory&quot; in the minds of those who lived by Norse mythology. Not one I'd care to achieve, but one they aspired to." CreationDate="2017-02-23T02:26:37.940" UserDisplayName="user3358" />
  <row Id="16192" PostId="2384" Score="0" Text="I don't think they would call it &quot;victory.&quot; And I don't believe any of them did. Victory isn't the right word to describe death in battle." CreationDate="2022-11-11T00:15:13.777" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7101" PostId="2389" Score="0" Text="That's Aesop's version. Hesiod's is very different." CreationDate="2017-02-22T01:08:39.447" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7102" PostId="2389" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer True, and although Hesiod's two versions are more detailed, both are ambiguous in terms for the question.  I suspect Aesop might have even felt a need to clarify this ambiguity in the Works and Days version.  Clearly hope exists in the world, but possibly it is only false hope, as Phil suggests. But another interpretation is that hope is all we have left, no matter how empty it may prove to be." CreationDate="2017-02-22T02:24:32.100" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7104" PostId="2389" Score="0" Text="No doubt Hesiod can be subtle, and profound philosophical ramifications may be found in his stories as Aristotle demonstrates.  Phil's interpretation is quite valid, but it is not the generally accepted interpretation, so far as I am aware." CreationDate="2017-02-22T02:35:47.620" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7105" PostId="2389" Score="0" Text="The debate has battle lines, for sure! I'm fully aware of the West-ian interpretation, and Aesop's story is good evidence for that, but I never bought his explanation of why a good Hope is in a jar full of evils (which was, &quot;It's just a story!&quot;) Hesiod's *W&amp;D* is all about how terrible life is now, how hard, how unglamorous. We are, after all, in the age of iron. I think he missed the forest for the trees on that one." CreationDate="2017-02-22T03:17:23.927" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7116" PostId="2389" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer The reason I reject the idea that elpis never escapes from the box is because it is self-evident that hope exists in the minds of humans (except in the case of clinical depression.)  You may find it interesting that [ἔμιμνε](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=e%29%2Fmimne&amp;la=greek#lexicon) is translated, on Theoi for example, as &quot;remained&quot;, even though it is an Imperfect verb. Doesn't clear up the ambiguity, but does lend a different feeling to the line." CreationDate="2017-02-22T20:03:40.647" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7113" PostId="2390" Score="0" Text="What about the god [Týr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BDr)? I've found some examples of warriors carving [his rune](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiwaz_rune) on their weapons to obtain victory. Or was he like Odin, someone to whom commend yourself before battle, that not necessarily granted victory?" CreationDate="2017-02-22T12:55:54.600" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="7114" PostId="2390" Score="2" Text="@Rodia Tyr was slowly going out of fashion (he likely used to hold the position Odin had), and by the end of the pagan age, he, and probably also Thor, was more likely a god you prayed to for personal success, while Odin was the god for kings and lords. If you went into a trial by combat, Tyr would be the appropriate god to pray for, if you were fighting a war with another king, you needed Odin's favor" CreationDate="2017-02-22T13:46:44.007" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7115" PostId="2390" Score="0" Text="I was hoping for a positive answer, but I'm quite convinced by your post. I'll wait a bit before accepting it, if you don't mind." CreationDate="2017-02-22T13:54:52.773" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="7522" PostId="2393" Score="0" Text="This is already answered by HDE's answer." CreationDate="2017-04-21T04:01:05.373" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7261" PostId="2396" Score="1" Text="In case you missed my answer, I wanted to let you know that it absolutely could be &quot;riddles&quot; instead of &quot;riddle&quot;." CreationDate="2017-03-12T21:56:42.393" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7121" PostId="2398" Score="0" Text="Well, they have their own mythology." CreationDate="2017-02-27T09:52:44.957" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="7122" PostId="2398" Score="0" Text="@chen of course they did. But I'm curious whether their real world presence affected the Norse" CreationDate="2017-02-27T17:33:29.163" UserId="1619" />
  <row Id="7128" PostId="2403" Score="0" Text="Thanks for this. I had presumed it was down to weight of the sort of circumstantial evidence you describe rather than anything concrete, but it's good to have that confirmed. I will try and remember to accept this if nothing else comes in over the next few days." CreationDate="2017-03-02T14:31:11.120" UserId="3495" />
  <row Id="7144" PostId="2403" Score="0" Text="It's funny how once someone mentions something, you see it everywhere. I ran across this link about [the hypothetical status](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danu_(Irish_goddess)) of the goddess Dana in another context, so I'm adding it here." CreationDate="2017-03-03T15:45:40.037" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="7138" PostId="2408" Score="5" Text="The simple answer is that Hera is queen by virtue of marrying Zeus." CreationDate="2017-03-03T09:48:11.147" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7157" PostId="2408" Score="0" Text="@yannis, that would garner an up-vote, but not be accepted as *the* answer.  That said, I think even the simple answer is useful as a place to begin." CreationDate="2017-03-03T20:15:23.220" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7162" PostId="2408" Score="1" Text="I suspected you aren't looking for the simple answer here, hence why I posted it as a comment. However, I don't think it's obvious from your question what you would consider _the_ answer. Apart from being Zeus' wife, Hera isn't otherwise special." CreationDate="2017-03-03T21:10:01.300" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7779" PostId="2408" Score="0" Text="Are you asking this Question specifically, because there are older goddesses than Hera, why none of them (your example being Aphrodite) is Queen; &amp;/or are you looking for a symbolic [psycho?]analysis of Hera's character &amp; attributes, &amp; such; or both, or... am I even remotely on track here?" CreationDate="2017-06-24T12:35:22.570" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="16339" PostId="2408" Score="0" Text="Attributing the prominence  of a female personage entirely to that of her husband is about as sexist a trope as they come. Hera, like her mother Cybele and several other goddesses, partakes of the identity of the primeval great goddess. Her primary shrine near Argos, though unspectacular, is the most hair-raisingly numinous place I have ever been. She holds the queenship of the pantheon on the basis rather of religious feeling than articulable reasons. So my suggestion here, with hat tip to Satchmo, is that if you have to ask, you'll never know." CreationDate="2023-04-08T17:37:50.077" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="11940" PostId="2410" Score="0" Text="[Styx](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styx) is the river leading to the [netherworld](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_underworld), the [realm of death](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades) and of the dead." CreationDate="2019-09-27T10:18:06.333" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="7129" PostId="2411" Score="1" Text="Can you clarify this at all? I *think* I know what you want, but I'm not entirely sure." CreationDate="2017-03-02T21:55:37.170" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7130" PostId="2411" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the pointing out the potential ambiguity.  Clarified!" CreationDate="2017-03-02T22:08:32.567" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7141" PostId="2411" Score="1" Text="I think this is still unclear. How do you define &quot;primary sources&quot;? Folk tales could still be considered a primary source, especially when it deals with material not found in other sources. Is something like Hrafnkels saga Freysgoða (an Icelander saga where a horse dedicated to Frey is the reason behind the customary feuding) a primary source for the purpose of this question?" CreationDate="2017-03-03T12:16:11.760" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7150" PostId="2411" Score="0" Text="@andejons By primary sources I mean work like the Eddas and Gesta Danorum.  I'd actually take your advice on whether to include the sagas, since your knowledge of the material exceeds my own significantly." CreationDate="2017-03-03T19:44:44.303" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7153" PostId="2411" Score="1" Text="Well, I'm still not sure since I don't know exactly what kind of answer you would like - is it stories, or any kind of mythological material? Some ways to be clearer would be to either give a cut off in time, or to specifically exclude Snorri, scaldic poetry, Saxo, and any other sources you would consider relevant. The sagas have a little material which deals with the gods, but I don't remember any stories with gods as protagonists." CreationDate="2017-03-03T20:00:18.260" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7154" PostId="2411" Score="1" Text="As another example, I know of a an early medieval story of how Odin came to influence a battle for one last time. Relevant? Place name etymology can give important information. Relevant? Image stones from Gotland sometimes depict legendary material. Relevant?" CreationDate="2017-03-03T20:07:38.543" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7156" PostId="2411" Score="0" Text="@andejons all info on the from the referenced medieval source would be relevant and useful!" CreationDate="2017-03-03T20:10:59.807" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7160" PostId="2411" Score="0" Text="@andejons Question amended.  Let me know if it is now too broad, or requires further clarification.  (I am very interested in this subject, so I will not rest until this question passes muster!)" CreationDate="2017-03-03T20:29:40.787" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7158" PostId="2412" Score="0" Text="@gibet Good link, but that is not focused on Indra, and the answer contains no references or citations, thus it must be regarded as suspect.  (i.e. that answer is interesting commentary, but the author does not support the assertions, and may be deriving his information from secondary sources or sources even further removed.)" CreationDate="2017-03-03T20:20:20.070" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8406" PostId="2414" Score="1" Text="Not sure if this will help, but here's a link with several other links to selkie tales: http://bestoflegends.org/fairy/selchies.html - &quot;The seal-folk of Scotland and Ireland, variously called selchies, selkies, silkies, or roanes, have a habit of swimming out of the mists of Faery and landing on the shores of popular culture.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-09-20T12:13:52.517" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="7175" PostId="2415" Score="1" Text="Interesting! Where can I read more about Cuchulainn?" CreationDate="2017-03-06T12:17:04.783" UserId="3230" />
  <row Id="7176" PostId="2415" Score="1" Text="@GirsanVirlee You can use the &quot;[texts in translation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BA_Chulainn#Further_reading)&quot; section of Wikipedia as a general index.  For the the [Táin Bó Cúailnge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A1in_B%C3%B3_C%C3%BAailnge) (&quot;The Cattle Raid of Cooley&quot;, the epic in which Cuchulainn's is the chief hero, my personal recommendation is the Thomas Kinsella edition." CreationDate="2017-03-06T22:44:16.990" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7177" PostId="2415" Score="1" Text="@GirsanVirlee I also highly recommend the [Yeats plays](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Cycle#Adaptations) on the subject, which are listed as adaptations, but due to Yeats' status as a poet, may be considered canon, as Yeats himself occupies a very lofty position the overall literary canon, and poetry may be said to be more highly regarded in Ireland than just about anywhere else. &quot;The Only Jealousy of Emer&quot;, &quot;The The Death of Cuchulain&quot;, and &quot;On Baille's Strand&quot;.  (The last play deal's with Cuchulain unwitting duel with his own son.)" CreationDate="2017-03-06T22:51:37.563" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7149" PostId="2417" Score="0" Text="I did up-vote, but for an accepted answer, you will need to research much more widely.  Homer is subtle, and literal interpretations are not always sufficient.  One of the functions of the Iliad may be said to elevate the humanity of mortals by contrasting their dignity with the Olympians, who are not generally portrayed well. In other words, the Iliad is subversive." CreationDate="2017-03-03T19:41:21.690" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7159" PostId="2417" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou I'm not sure of the connection between your comment and the original question. Can you clarify what you're looking for?" CreationDate="2017-03-03T20:29:05.247" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7161" PostId="2417" Score="0" Text="You reference one quote from the Iliad taken out of context.  The answer that will ultimately be accepted will cover a much broader body of material  regarding Zeus and Hera, and likely require non-literal analysis of the intents of the texts cited. (Myths are generally allegorical.)" CreationDate="2017-03-03T20:31:23.070" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7257" PostId="2419" Score="2" Text="The revised answer is top notch!  The Demophoon is further supported by the etymology of purification in the greek word for fire [πῦρ](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%80%E1%BF%A6%CF%81).  People may find this link of interest: https://ewonago.wordpress.com/tag/etymology-of-purify/" CreationDate="2017-03-12T20:20:45.033" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11425" PostId="2420" Score="0" Text="If I were to make an educated guess, I'd say there was some syncretism going on, and the war between the Aesir and Vanir was a memory of the struggles between two peoples, one whose gods were Odin and company, and the others who worshipped  Njord/ Frey etc. And IMO, the limted geographic extent of the Vanir reinforces this idea." CreationDate="2019-03-09T14:13:00.780" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="7169" PostId="2424" Score="1" Text="I have not included popular culture, since it would make the answer even longer and make it lose what focus it has. I could probably write something on how the Norse gods have been used by later poets, but that would probably be a better fit on the literature SE." CreationDate="2017-03-04T10:43:57.923" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7226" PostId="2425" Score="2" Text="Just wanted to add that [Perseus](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/collections) has Germanic texts in addition to Classical: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/collection?collection=Perseus:collection:Germanic.  Someone interested in the [Volsungs](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3atext%3a2003.02.0001), for instance, can now access the source text with vocabulary links." CreationDate="2017-03-10T15:06:24.117" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7171" PostId="2426" Score="0" Text="Mahabharata does include other species. See Garudas, a race of bird people, descendants of [Garuda](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garuda). Also [Nagas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C4%81ga) that are half human and half snake." CreationDate="2017-03-05T07:18:51.270" UserId="3238" />
  <row Id="7172" PostId="2426" Score="0" Text="@Ishan Singh Firstly, there is only *1* Garuda and secondly, they are *not* the protagonists" CreationDate="2017-03-05T10:34:29.460" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7173" PostId="2426" Score="0" Text="No, there are many Garudas. Read further in the link I gave." CreationDate="2017-03-06T01:55:23.097" UserId="3238" />
  <row Id="7174" PostId="2426" Score="0" Text="@Ishan Singh your link claims that Garuda fathered *birds* , not &quot;Garudas&quot;." CreationDate="2017-03-06T08:50:50.213" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7189" PostId="2426" Score="0" Text="Just to be clear, the creatures have to be the protagonists, thus &quot;Arabian Nights&quot; is not an answer b/c the Jinn are not the &quot;hero&quot; of the story? Also assuming Aesop's fables about animals are not what you're looking for?" CreationDate="2017-03-07T23:06:59.710" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7191" PostId="2426" Score="0" Text="Thing is, creatures like that, especially in religious mythologies, are always _antagonists_, an obstacle for the heroes to overcome, or something to scare children into eating more vegetables. Telling such stories from the &quot;villain's&quot; perspective is very much a modern idea that was I believe kickstarted by Disney." CreationDate="2017-03-08T12:14:26.233" UserId="2739" />
  <row Id="7192" PostId="2426" Score="0" Text="@DisturbedNeo But creatures do/have not necessarily have to be seen in a negative light. The nymphs of Greek Mythology or the Alfar of Norse mythology were not villains, right?" CreationDate="2017-03-08T12:56:28.540" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7181" PostId="2427" Score="1" Text="Hello. This question is also on topic on our sister site, [Literature Stack Exchange](http://literature.stackexchange.com/). If in the future you have questions that are more about the literary analysis of Dante than the exploration of the mythological background of the Divine Comedy, you might be interested in posting them there first." CreationDate="2017-03-07T10:28:28.480" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7178" PostId="2428" Score="4" Text="Excellent answer!  Worth noting that in the pre-Catholic conception, the listed suicides could be viewed as tragic but admirable. Certainly the fame of the two women is due, in part, to their strong wills and sensational deaths, and that the women, like other heroes, face death on their own terms." CreationDate="2017-03-06T23:28:17.770" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7188" PostId="2431" Score="0" Text="Although I've accepted andejons' excellent answer, I do want to state that I'm still interested in additional, supportable speculation and links to further scholarly speculation" CreationDate="2017-03-07T23:03:07.097" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7186" PostId="2432" Score="0" Text="The truth is, I have some ideas, but no certainly. It's been a while I was in a classroom where this was touched on, and I'm interested in other people's thoughts and links to any scholarly articles on the subject.  I think your answer is quite worthwhile." CreationDate="2017-03-07T22:30:28.117" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7187" PostId="2433" Score="0" Text="I am accepting this answer because it is definitive in terms of the text, and provides excellent references for some scholarly speculation." CreationDate="2017-03-07T23:01:01.903" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7211" PostId="2437" Score="1" Text="Do you mean fame in myth, or current understanding? For instance I would think Icarus is more famous than Daedalus, but don't know if in the mythology that's so." CreationDate="2017-03-10T03:29:21.140" UserId="3537" />
  <row Id="7212" PostId="2437" Score="0" Text="I also thought of Icarus as being more well-known than his father." CreationDate="2017-03-10T10:10:56.810" UserId="3540" />
  <row Id="7213" PostId="2437" Score="0" Text="I knew someone would say &quot;Icarus&quot; :). Yes, he certainly surpassed his father in one thing: height reached during flight. But Daedalus is known for more things. For example, for killing his nephew Perdix, out of fear of being surpassed as an inventor." CreationDate="2017-03-10T10:57:07.973" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="7223" PostId="2437" Score="1" Text="@Rodia (I speak as someone who has only superficial knowledge of Greek myths; I apologise if I tread on any toes...) If Icarus &quot;doesn't count&quot; because his father &quot;did more&quot;, perhaps you want something like &quot;_achievement_&quot; instead of &quot;_fame_&quot; in your title and question. While it may be true that Daedalus did more, or is known for more things (by people who know those sort of things), I'd still argue that Icarus is _more famous_ (to a wider population) than his father." CreationDate="2017-03-10T14:55:29.877" UserId="3540" />
  <row Id="7225" PostId="2437" Score="0" Text="@TripeHound What I meant is that Icarus didn't do much, he is only known for one thing. He did not kill any monster, nor constructed anything by himself. His history is nothing more than a cautionary tale, like that of Narcissus and many others. Tons of mythological heroes have a bad ending because their *hubris*, but in Icarus this bad ending is the whole thing." CreationDate="2017-03-10T15:03:39.010" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="7237" PostId="2437" Score="1" Text="It'd probably be easier to ask &quot;Did any great heroes in Greek mythology have fathers who were also heroes?&quot; If the son is one of the greats, they'll probably surpass their father in fame, and their family will probably have some background- the main problem is that many of their fathers would be gods." CreationDate="2017-03-10T17:30:25.737" UserId="3546" />
  <row Id="7249" PostId="2437" Score="0" Text="Pick any famous hero, and look at their father. (Filter out the cases where the father is either not a hero or is even more famous.)" CreationDate="2017-03-11T16:15:20.787" UserId="3234" />
  <row Id="7209" PostId="2438" Score="15" Text="In fact the *reason* Thetis was still free and single when Peleus came along, is that Zeus didn't want a god to marry her since it was prophesied that her son would exceed his father." CreationDate="2017-03-10T00:27:40.617" UserId="3536" />
  <row Id="7248" PostId="2438" Score="1" Text="When I asked the question Philip II of Macedon and Alexander the Great crossed my mind. And Peleus being surpassed by his son adds another layer to the Alexander - Achilles comparison. Thanks for answer and extra examples." CreationDate="2017-03-11T09:43:23.140" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="7319" PostId="2439" Score="0" Text="In fact, according to a myth, Prometheus gives a prophecy that Achilles will surpass his parents in fame." CreationDate="2017-03-21T11:47:10.300" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="7199" PostId="2440" Score="0" Text="Is there a version of the Philomela story where the designs in her tapestry are explicitly said to be encrypted? I have only a passing familiarity with the story, but I don't remember it involving ciphers." CreationDate="2017-03-09T19:12:46.147" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7201" PostId="2440" Score="0" Text="As I recall, the term is not used explicitly (not even sure if such a word was in use at that time), but the story makes the use of the device plain: Unable to tell of her woes, Philomel weaves them into a tapestry only her sister will recognize, and has it sent to her as a gift. There is evidence of ciphers in antiquity in [Greece](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scytale) and [Rome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_cipher)." CreationDate="2017-03-09T19:30:18.853" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7202" PostId="2440" Score="0" Text="I always thought that she had either explicitly drawn her woes on the tapestry, or even that she wrote her message in plain text (and that whoever delivered it was either complicit or illiterate). A word for encryption doesn't have to be explicitly mentioned, it would be good enough if the story mentioned that no one other than Procne was able to understand the message. That would be a plausible hint to some sort of encryption being used, and would make the story a much more fascinating one." CreationDate="2017-03-09T19:38:44.570" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7203" PostId="2440" Score="0" Text="[You can find the Ovid here in Latin and English](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0028%3Abook%3D6%3Acard%3D504).  Many translations of the Ovid exist, but all interpretations involve code.  Written language is a less likely interpretation, but it serves as code to one who is illiterate. However, the story is considered quite old, even by Ovid's time, so the natural tendency is to view the tapestry as pictorial, as opposed to linguistic. Also notable that weaving was a source of power in Greek Myth: Moirai, Penelope, etc." CreationDate="2017-03-09T20:00:00.000" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7204" PostId="2440" Score="2" Text="Thanks for the link, I certainly need to refresh my memory. Re weaving: don't forget Arachne ;)" CreationDate="2017-03-09T20:15:12.917" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7274" PostId="2441" Score="0" Text="Euripides mentions Hydra regenerating its heads in _Herakles_, but I don't think he explicitly tells us that she grew _two_ new heads for each lost one. I think the oldest known source for that is Diodorus (4.11.5)." CreationDate="2017-03-14T17:31:51.887" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7329" PostId="2441" Score="0" Text="@yannis I was reading through the Euripides to confirm when I got really busy.  (Wasn't able to find the passage on simple search, but I am interested in the original wording.)" CreationDate="2017-03-22T14:06:49.743" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7235" PostId="2442" Score="1" Text="I think calling John Gardner's novel &quot;not strictly canonical&quot; is somewhat generous. I would call it &quot;not *remotely* canonical&quot;." CreationDate="2017-03-10T17:26:09.813" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="7236" PostId="2442" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon :)  but it has led to some fertile ground in modern adaptations of Beowulf, and is within the greater canon of literature, if not mythology, strictly" CreationDate="2017-03-10T17:29:33.410" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7205" PostId="2443" Score="0" Text="Excellent!  *(I had quite forgotten this story and had not thought about Bellerphon in years.)*  I think you're assessment is correct because literacy was not widespread in Homer's time, and Bellerophon predates the Trojan war by a couple of generations--the story you reference is told by his grandson, Glaucus.  Writing would have certainly been known of, but still quite specialized as a craft. *(Possibly the wicked letter was some form of Linear B ;)* Not surprising this is the only mention of writing in the Iliad." CreationDate="2017-03-09T20:22:28.147" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7262" PostId="2444" Score="0" Text=":)  So it may relate to her particular power, just not the power I whimsically proposed." CreationDate="2017-03-12T22:03:15.650" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7207" PostId="2445" Score="4" Text="But god's are clearly not heroes." CreationDate="2017-03-10T00:04:05.207" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7208" PostId="2445" Score="2" Text="@bleh Why do you say that?" CreationDate="2017-03-10T00:12:46.467" UserId="3534" />
  <row Id="7210" PostId="2445" Score="6" Text="@Alexis: just the usual terminology for classical mythology: &quot;hero&quot; refers to large and not precisely-defined group of characters, that includes many mortals and demigods, but doesn't include the Olympian gods. I can't promise it never includes any other kind of deity, titans or their offspring. It doesn't mean, &quot;any character we admire&quot; or &quot;any powerful character&quot; or &quot;any character that's the subject of a story&quot;." CreationDate="2017-03-10T00:35:35.367" UserId="3536" />
  <row Id="7232" PostId="2445" Score="0" Text="That and who considers Kronos a hero anyway? He _ate his children_!" CreationDate="2017-03-10T17:01:22.487" UserId="3544" />
  <row Id="7246" PostId="2445" Score="0" Text="@CalculatorFeline And Zeus sentenced the titan (Prometheus) who helped him rise to power to be eaten alive every day by eagles because he helped mankind to not freeze to death. Let's not go there :P" CreationDate="2017-03-11T02:24:31.760" UserId="3550" />
  <row Id="16125" PostId="2445" Score="0" Text="@CalculatorFeline And Zeus consumes Metis, so that's out. But hero in ancient Greek didn't mean &quot;upstanding person we look up to.&quot; It didn't have anything to do with the morality of their character." CreationDate="2022-09-16T17:32:36.767" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7238" PostId="2449" Score="0" Text="Thank you for adding perspective and welcome to Stack Mythology! Thank you also for providing the transliteration along with the translation.  Very useful." CreationDate="2017-03-10T18:05:43.837" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7239" PostId="2449" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou, thank you for the encouragement!" CreationDate="2017-03-10T18:08:26.323" UserId="3543" />
  <row Id="7240" PostId="2449" Score="1" Text="am I correct that &quot;go&quot; is the root of cow here?  (go-ange, go-vadhi, go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya)" CreationDate="2017-03-10T18:10:08.393" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7242" PostId="2449" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou, yes that is correct. edited" CreationDate="2017-03-10T19:21:29.377" UserId="3543" />
  <row Id="7256" PostId="2452" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I kinda get it. Could you elaborate a bit please?" CreationDate="2017-03-12T04:11:12.970" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7273" PostId="2454" Score="2" Text="I'd just like to call out the East/West dichotomy as not a very useful generalization. It's a (dubious) 20th century idea that may not work so well with earlier time periods. Hellenistic Greece is called the birthplace of Western culture, so back then the East would presumably be &quot;not the Greeks&quot;, and before that just &quot;everybody&quot;? You can try to trace this rationalistic tradition of Western culture, but there is no such guiding tradition for the &quot;East&quot;. The Persians, for instance, were in direct contact with the Greeks, and culturally shared a lot more with them than they did with China." CreationDate="2017-03-14T15:51:07.503" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="7519" PostId="2454" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon I have to disagree.  Confucius is a little earlier than Socrates, and there is a very distinct tradition involving his ideas predominantly, and others schools (legalism, etc.).  Additionally, Buddhism is quite distinct from Christianity, although both may be said to be, at their root, about compassion.  But Buddhism is ultimately atheistic, in that everything is impermanent, and ultimately, an illusion.  The histories surrounding the Three Kingdoms, and the subsequent classical novels, are distinct from the tradition that arose out of the Homer and Hesiod." CreationDate="2017-04-20T21:20:02.623" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7520" PostId="2454" Score="1" Text="@DukeZhou - Yes, there are some clear guiding principles in what you might call *Sinic* culture, but is there some guiding philosophy that links the traditions of Confucianism in China and Hinduism in India and the Achaemenid Persians and Islam and Zoroastrianism? &quot;The West&quot; is a phrase used to refer a rationalistic philosophy, and the many features that arise from it. &quot;The East&quot; is a simple negation. It's a phrase The West uses to describe *those other people*. [This map](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Clash_of_Civilizations_map.png) shows kinda what I'm talking about." CreationDate="2017-04-20T22:16:14.673" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="7521" PostId="2454" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon I understand your point now. You've clearly thought about and researched this issue much more deeply than myself, and I have to agree with your assertion.  In collecting older books about Chinese mythology, I find them rife with jingoistic and derogatory ideas. (Thus their value may be said to be confined to sociological analysis of the author's mindset and misconceptions.)  Thank you for clarifying!" CreationDate="2017-04-20T22:30:21.570" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7271" PostId="2459" Score="0" Text="@Gibet although the story itself clearly resonated, and can be found in variations throughout mythology.  Achilles/Patroclus can be said to be a form of the story. I do make the point that &quot;it is difficult to link to existing cultures&quot; but that doesn't necessarily mean it had no influence." CreationDate="2017-03-13T21:14:06.230" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7275" PostId="2459" Score="1" Text="@Gibet Indeed, there are *tons* of parallels between Gilgamesh and the Iliad. Even the name persisted, as it was found in Aelian and among the Dead Sea Scrolls. It disappeared, yes, but not before leaving its mark." CreationDate="2017-03-15T03:00:55.397" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7283" PostId="2459" Score="1" Text="@Gibet Sure, it died, though all I was arguing was that it didn't die *before* passing on certain scenes to Greece, e.g. Aphrodite's wounding by Diomedes and Ishtar insulted by Gilgamesh. It had its influence and then passed into obscurity (as, I'm sure, quite a few other works might have done that have not been found)." CreationDate="2017-03-15T18:41:27.927" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7277" PostId="2464" Score="0" Text="What about all the other designs? The variant with a giant snake below the shoulders, three heads at front one of which is a dragon, wings, etc. At least one variant I've seen has a woman's head and chest like a sphinx." CreationDate="2017-03-15T15:30:57.290" UserId="3560" />
  <row Id="7278" PostId="2464" Score="0" Text="@Anonymous Are any of these ancient designs?" CreationDate="2017-03-15T15:40:55.197" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7279" PostId="2464" Score="0" Text="All are at least centuries old, according to the [Heraldry Society](http://mistholme.com/dictionary/chimera/). I cannot find any examples online, however. The snake torso is available from the [UN (row 4, column 4)](http://www.unesco.org/new/en/culture/themes/restitution-of-cultural-property/related-events/photo-gallery/)." CreationDate="2017-03-15T16:13:06.450" UserId="3560" />
  <row Id="7285" PostId="2464" Score="0" Text="@Anonymous What I posted is the earliest you'll find. The one on the UN website is hundreds of years later and from Apulia (in southern Italy) at that. I'd chalk it up to later developments and local traditions." CreationDate="2017-03-15T23:41:09.380" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7286" PostId="2464" Score="0" Text="@Anonymous Even that heraldry website you linked seem to recognize the images are a later development: &quot;A more classical form, depicted on ancient Greek urns, has a lion’s head and body, dragon’s tail, and a goat’s head grafted to the small of the back; this form is blazoned as a “Greek chimera” in Society armory.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-03-15T23:44:31.773" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7287" PostId="2464" Score="0" Text="I'm trying to trace the origins of all the different body types." CreationDate="2017-03-16T01:02:15.337" UserId="3560" />
  <row Id="7288" PostId="2464" Score="0" Text="@Anonymous Ah, I misread the OP. It sounded like you meant the earliest sources for the chimaera, not the earliest sources for those particular ones." CreationDate="2017-03-16T01:22:57.663" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7294" PostId="2464" Score="0" Text="@Anonymous An ancient variant with a woman's head is the Neo-Hittite Chimera, of which, unfortunately, we don't know much about. However, I don't think that variant was known in medieval times, when the heraldic versions appeared.  Related question: http://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/610/what-is-the-story-of-the-chimera" CreationDate="2017-03-16T09:54:37.213" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7295" PostId="2464" Score="0" Text="@yannis: That looks like a shedu or lamassu with two heads. Sphinx-like creatures are a common protective symbol in ancient Middle Eastern cultures. I have no idea how it showed up in heraldry." CreationDate="2017-03-16T12:36:50.770" UserId="3560" />
  <row Id="7282" PostId="2466" Score="4" Text="I guess Terry Pratchett's Cohen the Barbarian doesn't count.." CreationDate="2017-03-15T18:38:47.210" UserDisplayName="user3565" />
  <row Id="7284" PostId="2466" Score="1" Text="As an aside, Gilgamesh goes on an unsuccessful quest for eternal life after his great friend Enkidu dies" CreationDate="2017-03-15T23:00:21.733" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="7276" PostId="2467" Score="2" Text="This is hardly an obscure story; by the standards of norse mythology, this is almost as close to canonical you can get! Furthermore, it should be noted that Utgard-Loke afterwards admits to being utterly terrified since Elle only brought Thor down on one knee. Lastly, &quot;Hercules&quot; being venerated by the germanic peoples is clearly *interpretatio romana*, and in all likelihood Tacitus actually meant &quot;Thor&quot;." CreationDate="2017-03-15T14:20:49.280" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7280" PostId="2467" Score="1" Text="@andejons Yes, &quot;obscure&quot; wasn't the best word choice there. As for  interpretatio romana, although it's certainly the more likely explanation, there might be traces of a Hercules cult in Germania (in the form of Hercules Magusanus)." CreationDate="2017-03-15T16:32:38.513" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7307" PostId="2468" Score="2" Text="I think this question is too broad and answers would tend to be opinion based, but your fourth point is very good, and unless an explanation is given you may have spoiled the whole Odyssey to me. Thanks." CreationDate="2017-03-19T12:34:33.680" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="7308" PostId="2468" Score="0" Text="Rodia - thank you for your comment. Sorry if a point I raised spoils the whole Odyssey for you. With Homer and the Trojan War, I am torn between thinking that those semi-barbarian times were so different we can't judge them by our standards, yet still being shocked when this view leads  modern commentators to miss the cruelty of some of it. I accept answers may have to be conjectural by analogy from archaeology, other ancient literature &amp; history etc. As to qu. being too broad, I hope people will feel free just to answer one or a few parts of it." CreationDate="2017-03-19T16:14:59.640" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="7769" PostId="2469" Score="0" Text="Let me know if Adrinka's answer is more what you were looking for.  *(i.e. I can edit my answer, which would free up to change the accepted answer..)*" CreationDate="2017-06-22T20:00:09.617" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7292" PostId="2470" Score="0" Text="This is a very interesting story, indeed. However, at least the way I read it, it's not really a story that fits the motif of a hero fighting a personification of old age." CreationDate="2017-03-16T09:04:31.480" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7293" PostId="2470" Score="1" Text="Thanks Yannis! By the way, I noted something interesting - you mentioned &quot;Geras&quot; - personality of old age from Greek history.  In the Vedic literatures, old age is referred to as &quot;Jara&quot;! Very similar sounding word and meaning the same thing too." CreationDate="2017-03-16T09:12:44.367" UserId="3564" />
  <row Id="7322" PostId="2471" Score="0" Text="@Gibet By your comment, are you suggesting that the monsters in question were created to &quot;explain&quot; why so many of the young died?" CreationDate="2017-03-22T01:03:44.463" UserDisplayName="user3358" />
  <row Id="7349" PostId="2471" Score="1" Text="This is a very interesting question. In regards to woman, the deception factor is likely related to the condition of women prior to modern, civil society.  (i.e. women were not typically &quot;empowered&quot;, except in rare cases such as [Eleanor of Aquitaine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine). Thus, women could not generally act directly, as men can, but must seek more subtle means.  The modern concept of &quot;passive aggressivity&quot; is an extension of this.  I'll think about this very interesting question some more, and possibly attempt an answer, although the scope is quite broad." CreationDate="2017-03-23T19:01:27.643" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7350" PostId="2471" Score="0" Text="Another point: Guillermo Del Toro spoken very specifically about wanting to emphasize the point that these monsters (Strigoi specifically, as this related to his Strain series) always prey on those closest to them first, which is generally the family.  The execution of the Stain series was uneven, imo, but the concepts are very solid, and Del Toro is a legit scholar on this subject and widely considered a great artist for work like Pan's Labyrinth." CreationDate="2017-03-23T19:04:36.130" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7289" PostId="2472" Score="3" Text="Welcome to Mythology Stack Exchange! This is an awesome answer; it totally makes sense. Thank you." CreationDate="2017-03-16T01:44:41.233" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="7344" PostId="2474" Score="0" Text="I wouldn't necessarily consider Helios and Selene to be all that minor.  Persephone's importance seems to grow over time, culminating with the Eleusinian Mysteries." CreationDate="2017-03-23T15:26:15.967" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7360" PostId="2476" Score="0" Text="Mega props for bringing up Tennyson.  We don't see nearly enough references to literature, and I had all but forgotten this poem!  Tennyson's Ulysses was taught in my classics program, along with Joyce's (and, really, as much other significant literature as they could cram in. It's a huge part of the point of studying the classics :)" CreationDate="2017-03-24T23:58:31.597" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7315" PostId="2478" Score="2" Text="See http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanKronos.html and http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Khronos.html" CreationDate="2017-03-20T21:32:04.610" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="7346" PostId="2478" Score="0" Text="See my note to C.M.'s answer for the lexicon entries on the two words, which are almost certainly related.  Serious Greek scholars I studied under held this view, and claiming the words (which are identical except for the initial consonant) to be unrelated reveals a lack of understanding of Ancient Greek, imho." CreationDate="2017-03-23T15:47:57.393" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11935" PostId="2478" Score="0" Text="See *[Cronus: Name and comparative mythology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronus#Name_and_comparative_mythology)*." CreationDate="2019-09-27T07:44:50.613" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="16365" PostId="2478" Score="0" Text="Related now: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/8038/which-specific-ancient-sources-did-not-consider-kronus-and-chronos-to-be-the-sam?rq=1" CreationDate="2023-05-18T20:12:16.667" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7347" PostId="2479" Score="1" Text="Just to support what C.M. explains: [Kronos/Cronus](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=kronos&amp;la=greek#lexicon) is used for the personification of time as son of Gaia and Ouranos, where [xronos/chronos](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=xronos&amp;la=greek#Perseus:text:1999.04.0058:entry=xro/nos-contents) is the abstract concept." CreationDate="2017-03-23T15:49:09.453" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7304" PostId="2480" Score="3" Text="Death =/= Harm. The gods can and often are harmed." CreationDate="2017-03-19T03:11:05.700" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="8033" PostId="2481" Score="0" Text="That's right. They weren't killed but contained in the bottomless pit." CreationDate="2017-08-09T22:16:33.017" UserId="3351" />
  <row Id="7321" PostId="2483" Score="6" Text="I could be wrong, but I don't think there's an ancient source mentioning Heracles took part in the Titanomachy. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the [Gigantomachy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giants_(Greek_mythology)#The_Gigantomachy)?" CreationDate="2017-03-21T19:12:21.033" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7326" PostId="2483" Score="0" Text="@yannis That's possible. It wasn't clear to me that these were two separate wars with peace between." CreationDate="2017-03-22T09:26:23.683" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="7348" PostId="2483" Score="0" Text="I've amended my answer to include a couple links at the bottom to scholarly sources discussing the issue of temporality in Ancient Greek narrative.  (The second link kind of makes me want to do a detailed analysis of the verbs in the relevant sections of Apollodorus...)" CreationDate="2017-03-23T18:44:19.860" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7327" PostId="2484" Score="1" Text="I do not know the answer to your question but when I attended an Oxford University extension course on Ancient Egyptian religion a few years ago, the lecturer emphasised that the Egyptians did not require consistency in their theology. They were perfectly OK with different people saying, or even the same person saying in different contexts, that one god was, or was not, an aspect of another god etc. Only with Christianity did it become important to be clear as to whether e.g. Jesus was human, divine or both, whether God was one, three or three in one and so forth." CreationDate="2017-03-22T13:41:58.107" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="13708" PostId="2486" Score="0" Text="I don't understand why the note about the term &quot;simple&quot; because that word never occurs elsewhere in the answer." CreationDate="2020-07-26T13:29:58.933" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="13716" PostId="2486" Score="0" Text="@b_jonas It's in the [Apollodorus 1.6.1](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0022%3Atext%3DLibrary%3Abook%3D1%3Achapter%3D6%3Asection%3D1) translation by Frazer.  &quot;Learning of this, Earth sought for a simple to prevent the giants from being destroyed even by a mortal.&quot;  Wanted to explain the archaic usage of the term in case people read the linked passages." CreationDate="2020-07-28T00:15:21.277" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7332" PostId="2487" Score="0" Text="+1 for the last part. You should never trust a citation needed" CreationDate="2017-03-23T00:42:25.203" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7335" PostId="2487" Score="0" Text="How about groupings of gods according to their functions? Hebe and Eros are included in the _theoi gamelioi_, for example." CreationDate="2017-03-23T10:14:26.750" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7336" PostId="2487" Score="2" Text="As for an example of another group of twelve deities, how about the twelve Titans?" CreationDate="2017-03-23T10:22:45.820" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7359" PostId="2488" Score="0" Text="In response to the question about actual zoroastrian demons or demonized zoroastrian gods: either would be useful but I was particularly thinking of the former" CreationDate="2017-03-24T18:57:57.403" UserId="3592" />
  <row Id="7366" PostId="2488" Score="0" Text="Ouch. I assumed we had the part of the Avesta that wasn't burnt by Alexander at the end of the Achaemenid period. The Sassanian one should be similar, no?" CreationDate="2017-03-27T20:27:00.080" UserId="3592" />
  <row Id="7338" PostId="2489" Score="0" Text="Was this story a modern adaptation?  (The take on the damsel-in-distress has the feeling of post-modernism.)" CreationDate="2017-03-23T13:52:03.637" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7339" PostId="2489" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Not a modern retelling, as far as I know. And yes, it sounds quite (post)modern for its playing with the damsel-in-distress trope, but that's one of the reasons why it caught with me. BTW, that's the only part of the story that I can remember." CreationDate="2017-03-23T14:04:34.013" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="7340" PostId="2489" Score="0" Text="Was it poetry or prose?" CreationDate="2017-03-23T14:15:06.107" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7341" PostId="2489" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Back then I was reading Mythology in divulgation books, not originals." CreationDate="2017-03-23T14:22:16.430" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="7353" PostId="2489" Score="1" Text="When we find this story, I hope it ends with the wife having to backtrack and rescue her husband because he got ensnared in something ridiculous and she was tired of waiting for him. :)" CreationDate="2017-03-24T10:09:57.197" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="7351" PostId="2493" Score="0" Text="Yes, I meant the latter, by narrative chronology, not by sources, but your first point is also interesting, so now I'm not editing the question :). And, of course, Cadmus. I should have known!" CreationDate="2017-03-23T20:51:27.377" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="7352" PostId="2493" Score="0" Text="Thank you for not editing. *(The ambiguity is quite useful, since source chronology can be important in charting the evolution of myths, and many people are not aware of this factor;)*" CreationDate="2017-03-23T21:01:16.390" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7358" PostId="2496" Score="0" Text="No more than Tyr and Mars, for example. While the gods in question might share certain characteristics, saying they were &quot;the same&quot; is going a bit far." CreationDate="2017-03-24T13:34:13.117" UserId="2724" />
  <row Id="8802" PostId="2498" Score="0" Text="Because of the change of language, one must look at the original meaning of words.&#xA;&#xA;1) Universe- combined into one/whole&#xA;&#xA;2) Cosmos(kosmos)- land of humans(not the Earth)&#xA;&#xA;3) Apocalypse- uncover/reveal" CreationDate="2018-01-17T15:04:10.163" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="7362" PostId="2499" Score="0" Text="A great way to answer the question. In the general case, I wonder if we can't separate the McGuffin/false prize/red herring out of #4." CreationDate="2017-03-26T15:16:22.137" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="7918" PostId="2501" Score="0" Text="Did Greek culture invent the Muses? Did not the Muses rather invent Greek culture? Anyhow, though the standard nine names go all the way back to Hesiod, the association of each with a distinct art form is much, much later." CreationDate="2017-07-27T12:15:43.760" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="7384" PostId="2503" Score="0" Text="I've attempted an answer based on the Milton text and a Classical source (Ovid) but it is probably worth asking on Lit also, b/c English Lit scholars would likely have more detail on Milton." CreationDate="2017-03-28T20:55:31.400" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7367" PostId="2505" Score="6" Text="Please explain (in your question) why you think Chaos should be gendered at all. [As per Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_(mythology)), &quot;chaos&quot;&quot; is a _neuter_ noun." CreationDate="2017-03-27T23:49:51.750" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="7368" PostId="2505" Score="0" Text="@Spencer I'm writing a book which includes chaos." CreationDate="2017-03-28T03:02:30.390" UserId="3474" />
  <row Id="7378" PostId="2505" Score="2" Text="@Spencer - Gods of the Greek pantheon are almost always gendered. I think it's probably reasonable to assume any given Greek deity will be gendered. Chaos certainly may not be, but that would make it the exception." CreationDate="2017-03-28T16:56:10.927" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="7382" PostId="2505" Score="0" Text="Great question!  Welcome to Mythology." CreationDate="2017-03-28T19:57:59.087" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7396" PostId="2505" Score="0" Text="My personal opinion would be that Chaos is a liminal deity that forms a bridge between nothingness and all things that exist. (Sort of a &quot;primordial soup&quot; order arises out of.) Despite the Aristophanes, the case is very strong for an hermaphroditic or neutral figure. (Don't forget that Loki gave birth to Sleipnir, Zeus carried Dionysus to term in his own body, and Tiresias was changed from man to woman and back again. Sexual and gender fluidity are indisputably a part of Greek mythology. (See also Pentheus and transvestism.)" CreationDate="2017-03-30T21:38:43.293" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7370" PostId="2506" Score="3" Text="Are you sure the gendered pronouns in your quotes exist in the original texts?" CreationDate="2017-03-28T08:06:07.383" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7380" PostId="2506" Score="2" Text="The bolded &quot;his&quot; in the Seneca refers to Hercules, not chaos, which is not capitalized in the Latin text per the Rudolf Peiper, Gustav Richter, Ed." CreationDate="2017-03-28T18:53:53.773" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7386" PostId="2506" Score="2" Text="In Aristophanes' Birds (which is interpreting Hesiod's Theogony), Chaos is impregnated by Eros. With some notable exceptions [See David Leitao's [book](http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2013/2013-11-10.html) on the subject], the goddesses gave birth. That said, chaos was very often thought of as a genderless substance." CreationDate="2017-03-28T22:58:45.447" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7387" PostId="2506" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou whoops, read it wrong. agh" CreationDate="2017-03-28T23:40:17.247" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7392" PostId="2506" Score="3" Text="@bleh Re &quot;being fertilized&quot;: doesn't mean the individual in question was *born* female. Tiresias was genderswapped twice (MtoF and back again). Loki changed from male to female, got pregnant *by a horse,* bore the foal, and then changed back to male. So Chaos might be both genders, or change at will." CreationDate="2017-03-29T16:09:19.807" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="7385" PostId="2509" Score="2" Text="Grammatical gender =/= Personified gender. Also, keep reading the Aristophanes passages in which Chaos is impregnated by Eros." CreationDate="2017-03-28T22:55:38.223" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7388" PostId="2509" Score="2" Text="@C.M.Weimer Absolutely! The grammatical case is that it can be male, but the Aristophanes suggests female.  Sexual fluidity is a component of both Classical and Norse mythology." CreationDate="2017-03-29T03:27:23.653" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7389" PostId="2509" Score="4" Text="I'm not entirely sure about the male part, as it's [absent from the Greek](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=xaos&amp;la=greek#lexicon). I imagine in Latin there was a mistake based off it's ending. It's therefore neuter gender with some feminine aspects (like pregnancy). All this doesn't necessarily add up to a &quot;goddess&quot; in the traditional sense, though." CreationDate="2017-03-29T04:31:16.537" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7407" PostId="2509" Score="2" Text="I hope you realise that the capital and lower-case letters represent the interpretations of modern scholars." CreationDate="2017-04-02T22:18:33.930" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="7408" PostId="2509" Score="1" Text="....and that χάους is genitive singular neuter, not an adjective and not a plural." CreationDate="2017-04-02T22:22:07.083" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="7411" PostId="2509" Score="0" Text="@fdb I am aware of the capitalization issue (which is why I was careful to include the source for the Latin text) but thank you for pointing this out.  I've amended the answer to include a brief overview of the subject." CreationDate="2017-04-02T22:59:03.070" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7412" PostId="2509" Score="1" Text="@C.M.Weimer After further analysis of the Latin, it does seem to be used in the masculine, although definitively, only in the listed Seneca.  (I took a look at the other two Seneca references, but the adjective there were neuter, and didn't shed light, so I omitted to keep the answer relatively short.) I really appreciate your weighing in, in particular, to re-emphasize the Greek examples." CreationDate="2017-04-02T23:46:10.617" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7418" PostId="2509" Score="1" Text="In the passage from Seneca &quot;chaos&quot; is NOT of masculine gender. Maybe you have been misled by the &quot;his&quot; in the cited English translation. Grammatically &quot;chaos&quot; is neuter." CreationDate="2017-04-03T11:29:44.667" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="7489" PostId="2509" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Let me know if you think I need to further refine or correct. Thanks for clarifying over on Latin!" CreationDate="2017-04-14T22:15:22.303" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14581" PostId="2510" Score="0" Text="&quot;The meaning, not the Name I call&quot; may be an invitation to the reader to read the name etymologically, as the &quot;Heavenly Muse&quot; of the poem's initial invocation (1.6), rather than simply recalling that Hesiod includes the name in a list of the 9 Muses of Pieria (&quot;old Olympus&quot;). And that initial invocation further identifies the spirit in question with the &quot;Spirit of God&quot; that &quot;moved upon the face of the waters&quot; in Gen. 1.2: &quot;thou from the first / Wast present, and, with mighty wings outspread, / Dove-like sat'st brooding on the vast Abyss, / And mad'st it pregnant&quot; (1.19-22). Holy Ghost, then." CreationDate="2021-08-21T14:17:08.110" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="7402" PostId="2513" Score="1" Text="you make a very good point about the Norse gods: They were pretty specifically cited as *not* being immortal or unkillable. Ragnarok is entirely about the death of the gods. Baldur was killed by mistletoe." CreationDate="2017-03-31T00:10:38.663" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10948" PostId="2515" Score="0" Text="why did Zeus suddenly forgive Prometheus and wasn't Zeus trying to find out which of his sons would overthrow him eventually?" CreationDate="2018-10-24T01:43:20.027" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="8181" PostId="2516" Score="3" Text="Hesiod addresses this in *Theogony:* at 527-28 Heracles is said to save Prometheus from the bird and to deliver him from his cares or anxieties (δυσφροσυνάων); but at 615-16 Prometheus is said *in present tense* to be bound by the fetter, so maybe getting rid of the bird was all that Heracles did for him. And I believe the prophecy concerning Thetis was merely that her son was to be mightier than his father, which means mightier than Zeus if and only Zeus were to impregnate her, which he is accordingly careful not to do." CreationDate="2017-08-29T19:43:23.923" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8183" PostId="2516" Score="1" Text="@BrianDonovan Thanks for the clarifications, particularly in regard to the Theogony!  I've updated the answer to reference your comment on the Thetis prophecy." CreationDate="2017-08-29T22:45:33.187" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8184" PostId="2516" Score="1" Text="@BrianDonovan *PS- should you be inspired to propose an alternate answer, my edit also frees the questioner up to shift the accepted answer...*    I wasn't entirely happy with my answer, but wanted to at least to provide some context." CreationDate="2017-08-29T22:49:53.580" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7424" PostId="2518" Score="0" Text="Krosrd Thank you for answering and the excellent commentary.  I'm wondering about prominence of the trinity, which, at least per my admittedly cursory knowledge, came later, and thus the idea of &quot;supplanting&quot; the earlier gods." CreationDate="2017-04-05T16:14:25.087" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7425" PostId="2518" Score="1" Text="@Gibet From the way I understand it, Indra never lost his status as a 'main' deity among all the demigods (devatas), and is always understood to be their king. The trinity is above all the other devatas, also referred to as guna-avataras (incarnations presiding over gunas or modes of nature - sattva for Vishnu, rajas for Brahma and tamas for Shiva). They exercise dominion over the more fundamental modes of nature, while other devatas have powers over elements like wind, rain, thunder/rain (for Indra) and so on, which are combinations of the three modes." CreationDate="2017-04-05T23:31:33.937" UserId="3645" />
  <row Id="7426" PostId="2518" Score="1" Text="@Gibet If you read chapter 5 of Canto 2 of Srimad Bhagavatam (Bhagavat Purana), text 21 (https://www.vedabase.com/en/sb/2/5/21) onwards, even just the translations, it gives an idea of how the modes of nature are like the primary colors, with everything else slowly manifesting by their interaction with time etc. This is a very interesting section, actually, and a very informative read. :)" CreationDate="2017-04-05T23:33:31.150" UserId="3645" />
  <row Id="7427" PostId="2518" Score="1" Text="@DukeZhou I'm glad to contribute :) Like I mentioned in my other comments, to me the trinity were always there but their worship seems not as rewarding or easy as that of the demigods or devatas, which is why you see very few people actually getting benedictions from Shiva, Brahma or Vishnu, and all of them being extraordinarily powerful regardless of their theistic/moral inclinations (case in point - Ravana). Of course, different sampradayas describe things differently and emphasize different things, so mine is not the ultimate or sole view/answer." CreationDate="2017-04-05T23:36:47.230" UserId="3645" />
  <row Id="7428" PostId="2518" Score="1" Text="@DukeZhou Since their worship is not as accessible or appropriate for the masses, there seems to be more emphasis on worship of demigods, headed by Indra, in the bulk of Vedic literature, since the bulk is likely for the masses. A smaller (and possibly later) section would talk about worship of trinity. A somewhat similar discussion takes place in https://www.vedabase.com/en/sb/1/5 (Bhagavat Purana, Canto 1, Ch. 5), where Narada instructs Vyasa to write a literature specifically about Vishnu/Krishna after he has compiled all the Vedic literature." CreationDate="2017-04-05T23:46:55.670" UserId="3645" />
  <row Id="7430" PostId="2518" Score="0" Text="@Gibet That's an interesting note. I am not familiar enough with the Bible and Christianity to say much about it, but I guess so, maybe. I'm really not sure. :P" CreationDate="2017-04-06T09:32:07.777" UserId="3645" />
  <row Id="7432" PostId="2518" Score="0" Text="@Gibet that is a very good insight." CreationDate="2017-04-06T17:17:03.890" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7433" PostId="2518" Score="0" Text="@Krostd very enlightening.  What you present makes a great deal of sense.  (I'm holding off on formally accepting for a little while, just to see if other informed viewpoints arise, but I'm very satisfied with your answer.)" CreationDate="2017-04-06T17:18:16.250" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7434" PostId="2518" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou No worries. Do you think I should add what I said in comments in my answer itself too?" CreationDate="2017-04-06T21:56:23.020" UserId="3645" />
  <row Id="7435" PostId="2518" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Ahh, I get what you meant now. Very interesting observation! Yeah, that sounds similar to what I had in mind too. Though I would say that the bhakti movement which became quite prominent during the second millennium AD, encourages a more direct relationship between the devotee and God, and I can particularly vouch for this in connection to Krishna or Vishnu, being in the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition myself." CreationDate="2017-04-06T21:59:11.063" UserId="3645" />
  <row Id="7438" PostId="2518" Score="0" Text="@Krostd In my experience, the best mythology teachers are the one that provide commentary and analysis in addition to the facts.  From what little I know about the Hindu trinity, the theology is extraordinarily complex, and I can see how focus on a simpler deity would make sense for the masses." CreationDate="2017-04-07T17:24:07.060" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7456" PostId="2526" Score="0" Text="I studied under scholars much more conservative than Graves who made the case the entire cycle of Greek Mythology can be understood in the context of the suppression of feminine power.  I'm posting an answer on some undeniable examples." CreationDate="2017-04-10T17:57:56.827" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7466" PostId="2526" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I respectfully disagree, and find your examples quite problematic, but I am aware that many hold the position you espouse. However there is a distinct strain of misogyny in Greek myth, beginning with Hesiod and reinforced strongly by Aeschylus. I recommend focusing on Euripides if you want a better sense of this position, because it derives largely from his work, and is not merely a modern interpretation." CreationDate="2017-04-11T15:50:16.393" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7483" PostId="2526" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou I don't understand what you mean by &quot;the entire cycle of Greek Mythology can be understood in the context of the suppression of feminine power.&quot; When Artemis asks Zeus for permission never to marry and to be a huntress Zeus says yes and although the main war god is Aries the god of tactical fighting is Athena." CreationDate="2017-04-13T16:20:11.740" UserId="3675" />
  <row Id="7484" PostId="2526" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Pan?!?? And in India??? Never heard of that. Plesase elaborate" CreationDate="2017-04-14T04:27:18.967" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7487" PostId="2526" Score="0" Text="@Chaim There are serious scholars who hold this view, but you can certainly dismiss it as being merely one perspective.  My answer on the Erinyes is an example of this perspective." CreationDate="2017-04-14T19:30:58.053" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7488" PostId="2526" Score="0" Text="@KVickneshvara Amended to include Kronos, per your request.  (I'll continue to amend my answer as more examples occur to me:)" CreationDate="2017-04-14T19:39:32.370" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7455" PostId="2527" Score="0" Text="Graves would definitely attribute meaning to the forms--there is very little randomness in mythology so far as I can tell.  Graves' commentary on myths is in question, due to the influence of Frazer, but he had great artistic insight. However, much more conservative have written about such symbols.  When I get some time, I'll do a little research, but I'd say definitely, yes, there is significance." CreationDate="2017-04-10T17:55:37.190" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7468" PostId="2527" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Indeed, I was taught mythology initially through a Freudian and Jungian lens (with most of the focus on Jung.)" CreationDate="2017-04-11T15:53:07.327" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7452" PostId="2528" Score="2" Text="I'm puzzled as to why Aphrodite and Ishtar don't fit, but Zeus does." CreationDate="2017-04-10T16:13:18.237" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="7454" PostId="2528" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon I think your question is a central preoccupation for many contemporary scholars *(certainly the majority under whom I studied;)*" CreationDate="2017-04-10T17:52:31.420" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7459" PostId="2528" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon I just gave Zeus as an example as a character having many consorts(despite the fact that he is lusty). Should i change it to make it clearer?" CreationDate="2017-04-10T22:23:46.160" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7462" PostId="2528" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon i mean to say that most,or if not, all of the consorts should not have been married/mated with due to lust or for lust *and* for something like &quot;the greater good&quot;(e.g. Idk, true love?)" CreationDate="2017-04-10T22:33:54.397" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="11214" PostId="2528" Score="0" Text="Well, I certainly know that Ishtar pursued Dumuzid, but how is Aphrodite evil? The myth changed to Aphrodite and Adonis and that is a very different myth. Can you point me to a myth where Aphrodite is shown as evil? Also, the word &quot;evil&quot; is probably not correct. Ishtar was rageful, but some time after she killed Dumuzid she regret it." CreationDate="2019-01-22T00:59:43.557" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="7441" PostId="2529" Score="0" Text="Could uou provide a few examples of these goddesses consorts?" CreationDate="2017-04-09T06:37:09.850" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7491" PostId="2529" Score="0" Text="Isnt Medb potrayed as a villian?" CreationDate="2017-04-14T23:52:10.190" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7442" PostId="2530" Score="0" Text="Okay i editred the qns but are there actually any deities like the ones mentioned above?" CreationDate="2017-04-09T06:39:44.980" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7446" PostId="2530" Score="0" Text="I'm glad you did because it is an interesting question. I can suggest one, or one possibility. Apollo has the title [Paion, or Healer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paean_(god)), but in early Linear B lists the name Paion appears, but never Apollo. Homer also mentions him as a distinct deity. Some scholars think that Apollo took over Paion's name and functions, but of course with such slender evidence, they can't pin it on him." CreationDate="2017-04-09T17:18:59.890" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="7460" PostId="2530" Score="0" Text="Was Piaon's role dimnished or was he already a minor god?" CreationDate="2017-04-10T22:29:32.887" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7473" PostId="2530" Score="0" Text="Could you add that as an answer?" CreationDate="2017-04-12T08:57:48.933" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7477" PostId="2530" Score="0" Text="OK, I'm not sure what the etiquette is, but if I do it wrong someone will be sure to tell me." CreationDate="2017-04-12T22:43:33.373" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="7485" PostId="2530" Score="0" Text="@solsdottir as always, thanks for your lucid perspective!  I only want to comment that another great way of learning about Eurynome is to utilize Graves' The Greek Myths, NOT the commentary, but the primary material, which is to say the myths themselves.  The Graves index is an excellent resource for chasing down the source material on a given figure from the canon." CreationDate="2017-04-14T19:13:27.547" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7445" PostId="2531" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum I didn't think it wasI was just saying in general" CreationDate="2017-04-09T17:07:38.327" UserId="3660" />
  <row Id="7451" PostId="2531" Score="0" Text="@Gibet as I remember it it was more like stealing talents than superpowers, like if you were good at basketball and they touched you then they stole your basketball skill" CreationDate="2017-04-10T09:54:31.523" UserId="3660" />
  <row Id="7453" PostId="2531" Score="0" Text="There is a theory that defeating an enemy (and possible eating body parts such as the heart or liver) confers the power of the fallen to the victor.  Not a specific entity, but give some weight to your claim.  (However, it is possible you are conflating this with some contemporary source that took the form of canonical mythology...)" CreationDate="2017-04-10T17:38:18.893" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7457" PostId="2531" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou yes I must be remembering a fiction rather than a myth" CreationDate="2017-04-10T20:03:20.180" UserId="3660" />
  <row Id="7470" PostId="2531" Score="1" Text="@SemperAmbroscus But just because we haven't found anything yet, doesn't mean it isn't there.  I'm going to do a little answer from Norse Mythology." CreationDate="2017-04-11T16:14:26.320" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7458" PostId="2533" Score="0" Text="Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I did think that the mythology was a little sparse on the details about elves. I will read up on those links." CreationDate="2017-04-10T20:25:08.313" UserId="3662" />
  <row Id="7461" PostId="2536" Score="0" Text="Were there any male gods as well. From your comments, I'm assuming you are going to write mostly on goddesses as they were dimnished due to patriachy but are there any male gods who also had the same fate?" CreationDate="2017-04-10T22:31:21.817" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7467" PostId="2536" Score="0" Text="@KVickneshvara  I will think about it.  The problem there, as I see it, is it would be mostly speculation, less supportable than the two examples I've listed so far." CreationDate="2017-04-11T15:51:28.053" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7490" PostId="2536" Score="0" Text="Thank you but from which acient mythology was he from?" CreationDate="2017-04-14T23:42:58.727" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7492" PostId="2536" Score="0" Text="@KVickneshvara I've linked Kronos.  Interestingly, Kronos overthrew his own father [Ouranos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranus_(mythology)), but I don't mention Ouranos in the answer because his loss of status was at the hands of his titan son, not the Olympians." CreationDate="2017-04-15T22:55:54.460" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8374" PostId="2536" Score="0" Text="Have you come across any new answers? Also, I would really appreciate if you could find out if any(or all) of the Olympians(and/or popular monsters like Charbyodris) are offshoots of other gods" CreationDate="2017-09-22T23:23:07.973" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="8646" PostId="2536" Score="0" Text="On second thought, I don't think Kronos and the Erinyes can be accepted as answers as the literally had their roles diminished while what I'm looking for are gods whose roles were diminished after being assimilated into the Greek pantheon." CreationDate="2017-11-25T03:25:50.417" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="8647" PostId="2536" Score="0" Text="@Vick I'm amended the information on the Erinyes, removed Kronos, and added Cybele.  Now that the answer has been edited, you can accept another answer if so inclined.  Thanks for the feedback!" CreationDate="2017-11-25T21:43:50.453" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7465" PostId="2537" Score="2" Text="This is a bit vague, it would help if you could point us to some of the websites you mention. The one legend you mention by name, the Thessalonike legend, is part of the [Alexander romance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_romance). It doesn't have much to do with Thassos. As for its sources, this related question might be of interest: [What is the oldest known version of the Thessalonike legend?](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/941/57)." CreationDate="2017-04-11T12:27:00.260" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7474" PostId="2538" Score="0" Text="This is more than I could have hoped for, I find it interesting how you immediately knew to look in Norse Mythology" CreationDate="2017-04-12T20:03:56.123" UserId="3660" />
  <row Id="7475" PostId="2538" Score="1" Text="@SemperAmbroscus  I'm far from the leading Norse expert here, but this material is very well known in that canon.  *(I was lucky to have very good teachers--the way they trained me to analyze stories from a fundamental perspective has been useful in a number of endeavors.)*  I suspect there are other examples from other canons, and I will keep this question in the back of my mind and add more examples should they occur to me." CreationDate="2017-04-12T20:42:55.983" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7476" PostId="2539" Score="2" Text="I recall that it had something to do with the time Odin spent wandering, but I don't have any particular source to hand to back that up." CreationDate="2017-04-12T21:50:27.237" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="7481" PostId="2541" Score="0" Text="Are you aware of any other gods?" CreationDate="2017-04-13T12:45:51.877" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7493" PostId="2541" Score="0" Text="I think you also mentioned Medusa as being a  sun and horse goddess in your blogs. Could you add that to your answer?" CreationDate="2017-04-16T05:48:19.630" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7498" PostId="2541" Score="1" Text="Medusa is an interesting case. Her main myth (a horse-goddess who gives birth to twins, and suffers) links her to Demeter, so it could very well be that she was absorbed, especially since both goddesses are impregnated by the same god, Poseidon. (Also, the Indian goddess Saranyu, and the Irish Macha and Welsh Rhiannon fit this pattern, which suggests an Indo-European dimension. But it's unprovable, it just seems likely. Over time, popular gods and goddesses hoovered up less popular ones. I've answered this question twice, so someone else should have a go." CreationDate="2017-04-16T15:09:54.843" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="7497" PostId="2543" Score="0" Text="Ganesha, Krishna, Sita, Rama and Sati from Hinduism" CreationDate="2017-04-16T14:47:40.900" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7504" PostId="2546" Score="1" Text="I believe we're talking about [archetypal literary criticism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetypal_literary_criticism)." CreationDate="2017-04-18T18:03:44.513" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7508" PostId="2546" Score="0" Text="I'm familiar with archetypal criticism and the books on that bibliography. But I'm not  of any archetypal criticism of irish myth. The short answer for 'why Jungian' is that I'm interested in this approach.  A slightly longer answer is that I think a Jungian approach to archetypes one of the best attempts at mapping out innate patterns (instincts) we have by virtue of being human . I see mythology as working  those archetypes in pictorial form." CreationDate="2017-04-19T20:46:49.190" UserId="3682" />
  <row Id="7524" PostId="2546" Score="0" Text="Thanks for your reply, and for reminding me of the Maedbh &amp; addiction one. I'd seen it but haven't read it. It's the kind of material I'm after.   I&quot;m familiar with Emma Jung, also Von Franz etc, but they usually deal with a generically 'celtic' and usually the the Brythonic material as filtered through the middle ages. While we have analogues, cauldrons of plenty etc here in Ireland the grail myth isn't a big Irish theme." CreationDate="2017-04-21T12:15:12.833" UserId="3682" />
  <row Id="7503" PostId="2548" Score="1" Text="thank you, as always, for your thoughtful and informative response.  The question was, in large part, an attempt to validate a statement in one of the many non-peer reviewed, online mythological resources: http://norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/the-aesir-gods-and-goddesses/odin/   This answer helps clarify." CreationDate="2017-04-18T17:58:12.187" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7507" PostId="2549" Score="1" Text="Very interesting!  Please link the passages if you get a chance." CreationDate="2017-04-19T17:27:02.007" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7509" PostId="2549" Score="0" Text="The source I cited can be found here: https://books.google.co.il/books?id=dH1jAAAAcAAJ&amp;lpg=PT168&amp;ots=dvLBp2VWp7&amp;dq=%D7%90%D7%A4%D7%A2%D7%94%20%D7%A2%D7%9B%D7%A1&amp;pg=PT168#v=onepage&amp;q=%D7%90%D7%A4%D7%A2%D7%94%20%D7%A2%D7%9B%D7%A1&amp;f=false but it's a bunch of different Jewish sources as well." CreationDate="2017-04-20T06:40:32.140" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="7532" PostId="2552" Score="0" Text="Have you had a chance to look into this more?" CreationDate="2017-04-24T11:17:15.827" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="8011" PostId="2552" Score="1" Text="@RebChaimHaQoton Not related to Venus, but I thought you'd be interested in this Apollodorus line: [*&quot;Alcyone was married by Ceyx, son of Lucifer. These perished by reason of their pride; for he said that his wife was Hera, and she said that her husband was Zeus.  But Zeus turned them into birds; her he made a kingfisher  and him a gannet.&quot;*](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0022%3Atext%3DLibrary%3Abook%3D1%3Achapter%3D7%3Asection%3D4)" CreationDate="2017-08-06T04:52:46.167" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7517" PostId="2553" Score="0" Text="Great question.  It sure seems like a magic mill stone, but like yourself, I can't analyze this text in the original language." CreationDate="2017-04-20T18:13:24.877" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7525" PostId="2553" Score="1" Text="This made me think of [Grottasöngr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grottas%C3%B6ngr#Prose_Edda)." CreationDate="2017-04-21T15:19:24.913" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7523" PostId="2558" Score="1" Text="The idea of Loki as a fire god (even as he appears right next to an actual personification of fire) is no longer considered to have any merit. See here: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/748/was-loki-originally-a-fire-god for a quick overview." CreationDate="2017-04-21T05:43:24.510" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7558" PostId="2558" Score="0" Text="I don't agree with those who consider such, however well-educated they are (as Simek and Lindow clearly must be), as there is a distinct difference between the oft-useful sometimes-dangerous Loki-of-fire, that which we use in our homes, and the uncontrolled, naught-but-devastation Logi-of-fire, the wildfire that consumes not only the food but the trencher as well." CreationDate="2017-05-05T09:19:23.803" UserId="3694" />
  <row Id="7534" PostId="2562" Score="0" Text="There are many myths surrounding Royston Cave, mostly as it is the balancing trine to Glastonbury Tor on the Michael Ley.  Your post sounds more like a further question than an answer, although one well worth asking." CreationDate="2017-04-24T14:49:38.440" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="9028" PostId="2562" Score="0" Text="On what basis do you conclude that there is anything Egyptian (and more specifically Horus) in this image?" CreationDate="2018-02-25T05:55:22.903" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="7535" PostId="2564" Score="0" Text="+1 For being the only answer after two years. Thank you." CreationDate="2017-04-25T19:48:40.147" UserDisplayName="user93" />
  <row Id="7537" PostId="2567" Score="1" Text="TVTropes sounds like it's for TV, not real mythology" CreationDate="2017-04-30T00:06:48.363" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7539" PostId="2567" Score="1" Text="Whenever I read stuff like that I have to admit that &quot;Let there be light.&quot;is a very cheap and uncreative way to set up your mythology and get started." CreationDate="2017-04-30T06:04:34.067" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="7540" PostId="2567" Score="1" Text="@bleh TV tropes started out as just TV but has grown *vastly* since inception. It covers pretty much every storytelling medium in existence, and frequently covers real life as well. Mythology is one of the topics consistently covered as &quot;Examples of this trope.&quot; It's completely valid." CreationDate="2017-04-30T13:00:29.313" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="7541" PostId="2567" Score="2" Text="Redacted, as a general comment: You have a solid question here, but you need to do some tidying. Your title covers all kinds of squick (sex, violence, nonconsensual acts) but your question as posted asks specifically about the symbolic uses of semen in myths. Can you: 1) edit your title to reflect that question specifically 2) Clean up a bit of the  language to be less ranty and more straightforward? I hear you about how squicked you are, but your amusing commentary about your reactions to the myths don't add to the question." CreationDate="2017-04-30T13:03:57.467" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="7542" PostId="2568" Score="1" Text="This is an interesting answer. Poseidon's senior status may have made him untouchable for Athena. I would suggest that you add sources in your answers, to make them more helpful to others." CreationDate="2017-05-01T23:25:36.623" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="7545" PostId="2569" Score="0" Text="I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is more the history of mythology, not actual mythology" CreationDate="2017-05-03T14:01:43.810" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7546" PostId="2570" Score="0" Text="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity is relevant about the rise of Christianity as the religion supported officially in the Roman empire." CreationDate="2017-05-03T20:21:35.937" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="7547" PostId="2570" Score="0" Text="@b_jonas Yes, and Greece (as an empire) was long gone by the time of the Roman support for the Christian religion. Plus, the Roman myths took a lot of inspiration from the Greek myths. Naturally Rome had already conquered Greece (although they did lose it), because of a stupid Greek General albeit, but they still won. Rome was really where the &quot;ban of polytheism&quot; occured." CreationDate="2017-05-03T20:29:30.607" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="7548" PostId="2570" Score="0" Text="the question doesn't ask specifically about the Greek empire.  It says &quot;the Greeks worshiped the seven Greek Gods and eventually it was outlawed or forbidden&quot;.  The Greeks as a group of people still existed under the Roman empire." CreationDate="2017-05-03T20:30:35.683" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="7549" PostId="2570" Score="0" Text="@b_jonas Yes, however the Christians were not putting a ban on the worship of Zeus and his kin (although the question is still not great because it only asks about Zeus and his brothers and sisters), but a ban on polytheism as a whole." CreationDate="2017-05-03T20:33:39.410" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="7550" PostId="2570" Score="0" Text="So essentially, like I say in my answer, this worship was banned because of the Christian ban on polytheism. This occured because Christianity became the religion for most societies. A path that was definitely aided by the Roman support for the Christian religion." CreationDate="2017-05-03T20:35:51.887" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="7551" PostId="2570" Score="0" Text="In fact, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_policies_of_Constantine_I may be the more relevant article." CreationDate="2017-05-03T20:36:43.493" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="7552" PostId="2570" Score="0" Text="@b_jonas I will edit the answer, and put in the link, but as far as a summary for why, I think that my answer is sufficient" CreationDate="2017-05-03T20:42:37.790" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="7553" PostId="2570" Score="0" Text="@b_jonas the second link I added may be more relevant to the question, considering it deals with the bans, revivals, and fluctuations of polytheism (or at least the Greco-Roman polytheism)." CreationDate="2017-05-03T20:50:07.043" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="7554" PostId="2570" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the answer, Bob. I can see now, that I should have put this in the Christianity section or History." CreationDate="2017-05-04T01:47:43.237" UserId="3737" />
  <row Id="12248" PostId="2570" Score="0" Text="My understanding is that many early Greek/Gentile worshipers of Christ were polytheist.  Roman General Constantine, for instance, believed in many Theos (human-immortals) including Jupiter, Apollo, Diana . . . and Christo, who was Jewish origin, just as Apollo was of Greek origin.  Daemons were the Greek word for &quot;Spirit&quot; that lived within others, guiding them and protecting them.  Socrates famously had a holy Daemon guiding him.  The Jews were actually considered A-theos (without Gods) because they did not believe in Theos (Jehovah was an eternal omnipotent presence rather than a Theos)." CreationDate="2020-01-16T16:08:26.123" UserId="4140" />
  <row Id="12249" PostId="2570" Score="0" Text="The Apostle Paul innovated Religion by adopting Jehovah as the &quot;Father&quot; while including holy versions of the Greek-Daemons, as the Holy Spirit, and adopting the Theos &quot;Christo&quot; which many Greek-Gentiles had already begun worshipping, as Theos.  At the same time, he banned the worship of any other Religions, or Theos, and only their Daemon was holy, the Holy Spirit.  Adopting Jehovah as &quot;The Father&quot; also has Greek origin, for example, Zeus was &quot;Father Zeus&quot; in The Iliad Book 3 circa 800BC.  And, Alexander the Great was the son of Zeus by Greek tradition and lore, by 332BC." CreationDate="2020-01-16T16:11:20.717" UserId="4140" />
  <row Id="7557" PostId="2572" Score="1" Text="Welcome back :)" CreationDate="2017-05-04T21:24:56.367" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7564" PostId="2577" Score="0" Text="Do you mean a hero who partners up with death? And by &quot;overcoming&quot; do you mean that the hero defeats an actual death-deity, or do you mean something broader? It would be easier to give some sources if we had a better idea of what you want." CreationDate="2017-05-07T20:04:39.963" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="7566" PostId="2577" Score="0" Text="I am mostly interested with heroes/saint who partners up with death/death deities.&#xA;In christianity most of saints defeat death, while I am interested in antagonism characters." CreationDate="2017-05-08T09:20:57.613" UserId="3747" />
  <row Id="7586" PostId="2579" Score="1" Text="But it looks like Kali was the opponent of the Death, not his ally" CreationDate="2017-05-11T13:42:45.017" UserId="3747" />
  <row Id="7589" PostId="2579" Score="0" Text="Yeah? So who is the Death who is the opponent of Kali? And also, pay attention: &quot;When Yama heard Kali's name, he fled in terror, and so those who worship Kali are said to be able to overcome death itself&quot;. It's clues about who could be an ally to Death. Yama himself could be, I'm not sure, there's a lot of reading to do." CreationDate="2017-05-11T14:33:38.567" UserId="1315" />
  <row Id="7567" PostId="2582" Score="0" Text="'Celtic' is just a subset of the mythology of Britain." CreationDate="2017-05-08T15:06:22.823" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="7587" PostId="2583" Score="0" Text="Both examples are great, but I was looking for an ally of the Death :)&#xA;(Question was edited by someone)" CreationDate="2017-05-11T13:43:46.343" UserId="3747" />
  <row Id="8982" PostId="2583" Score="1" Text="Actually, he sympathized with Persephone, queen of the Underworld and she allowed him to go back." CreationDate="2018-02-22T01:27:18.317" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="7569" PostId="2584" Score="3" Text="Should note: they also are separated by centuries!" CreationDate="2017-05-09T02:36:21.093" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7577" PostId="2584" Score="4" Text="That too, yes! Most of the information we have about deities in continental Europe comes from statues and Roman altars, while the information on Welsh and Irish ones comes from post-Christian, written, sources." CreationDate="2017-05-09T21:53:47.263" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="13706" PostId="2584" Score="0" Text="I read somewhere the rivalries between the Fomorians and the tuatha de dann represent the rivalry of an older pantheon of gods with the gods of the newer settlers arriving in Ireland. It is an interesting way to think about it, if nothing else." CreationDate="2020-07-26T03:56:16.730" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="7572" PostId="2586" Score="0" Text="There are hundreds of them.  There are dozens of proposed explanations for it from various authors.  This is very broad." CreationDate="2017-05-09T07:46:46.730" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="7580" PostId="2587" Score="0" Text="Glad that I helped! see ya" CreationDate="2017-05-11T02:12:29.540" UserId="1315" />
  <row Id="7578" PostId="2589" Score="6" Text="Pater means father. A quick and dirty translation of the phrase would be father Zeus, and yes, it does appear in ancient Greek sources. eg: &quot;Ὑπερβίῳ δὲ Ζεὺς πατὴρ ἐπ᾽ ἀσπίδος...&quot; - Aeschylus, Seven Against Thebes, line 512." CreationDate="2017-05-10T23:13:49.090" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7581" PostId="2589" Score="0" Text="@yannis I'd be very interested in hearing about the context in which it's used. Is it a stock phrase, a sort of official title, perhaps used ritualistically in specific contexts? Or is it just that coincidentally, people once or twice referred to Zeus as a father? Essentially, is there any way of confirming that this really is the original *full* name of Zeus, validating the idea that it's cognate to &quot;Jupiter&quot;?" CreationDate="2017-05-11T10:12:58.683" UserId="3731" />
  <row Id="7591" PostId="2590" Score="5" Text="Please provide a source for those assertions." CreationDate="2017-05-11T23:47:07.577" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="7594" PostId="2594" Score="1" Text="I can't pin-point the source(s), but I seem to recall that the thing making steel special was that it was a &quot;new-technology&quot; metal that was not nearly as brittle as iron. Its shiny attribute was the first clue that it wasn't regular iron, and not part of the warding effect, per se. In the beginning, the process of making steel was a very well guarded secret, and only the smith in one village out of several might know how to make it." CreationDate="2017-05-14T00:50:18.240" UserDisplayName="user3358" />
  <row Id="7611" PostId="2600" Score="0" Text="Nice! This source http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/ways.htm is amazing! Thanks" CreationDate="2017-05-17T16:18:58.003" UserId="1315" />
  <row Id="7825" PostId="2600" Score="1" Text="+1 For the realism part." CreationDate="2017-07-08T14:48:03.823" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="7603" PostId="2603" Score="0" Text="Then we come to the path of the redeemer, the Christ who in gnostic texts is quoted as saying I didn't come to save you all but I came to save the one who came to save all. This is where we see the 'gods' intervene and send another (not like them) to help inanna/Sophia raise out of the underworld. here we can find similar connections to the resurrection story for loose correlation. This only makes sense when you read between the lines of multiple sources and verious mythology." CreationDate="2017-05-16T19:13:41.403" UserId="3782" />
  <row Id="7604" PostId="2603" Score="0" Text="As one of the early comments alludes to this was a journey inanna had to undertake to know all of herself, the darkness is just as important as the light and only through experiencing it and being at ease with it can you truly know it. The need for this goes all the way back to her fall from the pleroma. See Rudolph Steiner's research on Sophia to understand inanna's story." CreationDate="2017-05-16T19:19:23.590" UserId="3782" />
  <row Id="8117" PostId="2604" Score="1" Text="You'll get more upvotes if you provide a source. Here is a link on Perseus to  the English version of Pultarch's Solon: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2008.01.0063%3Achapter%3D31%3Asection%3D3" CreationDate="2017-08-24T19:12:36.590" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="12250" PostId="2606" Score="0" Text="Also, the cultural wars had begun before then.  For example, in The Book of ACTS, the Temple of Artemis [Diana] in Ephesus (one of the Wonders of the World according to Herodotus) had an enormous burning of pagan writings and a riot resulted as Ephesus was being Christianized.  Years later Rome was burned).  The culture wars were evident in Acts, Revelations, and the rest of the New Testament." CreationDate="2020-01-16T16:18:46.727" UserId="4140" />
  <row Id="7614" PostId="2610" Score="0" Text="The Southern Cross would not have been well known to the early Norse or Christians." CreationDate="2017-05-18T07:21:41.010" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="7621" PostId="2616" Score="3" Text="Could you elaborate? This is kinda confusing, and doesn't really answer the question" CreationDate="2017-05-20T12:43:03.907" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7624" PostId="2618" Score="0" Text="@bleh I think my question isn't so much &quot;asking how the greeks themselves reacted&quot; (reacted to what? to those with contrary opinions?) as it is asking exactly what mythologies (or &quot;mythological systems&quot;) are. Are the mythologies coherent systems of thought, or do they allow for inconsistencies and contradictions in the accounts of the gods? Perhaps Philosophy SE would be a better place for my &quot;meta-mythology&quot; question?" CreationDate="2017-05-22T03:00:29.607" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="7627" PostId="2618" Score="2" Text="@bleh - Couldn't disagree more on the topicality of this question. This site isn't just about treating mythologies as a fictional canon (and even if it were, forbidding asking about the intent of the authors would be a pretty strange idea). Asking about the historical contexts of myths is *definitely* on topic ([See the help center](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic)), and describes many of our more interesting questions. The Greeks relationship with the Gods and the nature of their worship couldn't be much *more* on topic." CreationDate="2017-05-22T15:30:47.400" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="7628" PostId="2618" Score="0" Text="@Gibet &quot;_did the Greek regarded favourably the other gods_&quot;? Yes, that's basically what I'm asking. I'm also wondering: Was there an &quot;orthodoxy&quot; in Greek mythology (and who determined whose myth story or gods were orthodox?), or was their mythology continuously changing, developing, and open to new stories, gods, or different (perhaps even contradictory) versions of stories of the same gods, etc. (Also, it seems your comment could be turned into answer.)" CreationDate="2017-05-22T15:50:44.080" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="7629" PostId="2618" Score="1" Text="This question is asked on [History SE](https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/38165/did-greeks-and-romans-tolerate-those-who-only-believed-in-some-of-their-gods)" CreationDate="2017-05-22T16:25:09.117" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="7630" PostId="2618" Score="1" Text="@KenGraham It's now different. The History SE one is about worship (an external act civil authorities can judge); this one is about belief." CreationDate="2017-05-22T18:33:08.600" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="7673" PostId="2618" Score="0" Text="I actually think this is both a History and Mythology question, and useful for both stacks." CreationDate="2017-06-01T20:25:58.167" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7674" PostId="2618" Score="0" Text="As I recollect, the Romans were famous for absorbing new gods, and even adopted the idea of deification of deceased emperors.  This appears to be a good strategy--Hinduism, also quite good at absorbing new gods and concepts, is still the dominant religion in India.  My understanding of the initial Roman resistance to Christianity is that it required repudiation of all the false gods.  The ancient Jews, who were by Roman times vehemently monotheistic, existed fairly peacefully as part of the Roman empire Caligula started pushing the issue--it's more complex than that but it was a factor." CreationDate="2017-06-01T20:37:15.747" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7950" PostId="2619" Score="1" Text="As far as I can see, this is the only place on the internet that the word &quot;Igidallru&quot; appears. Perhaps it has another transliteration?" CreationDate="2017-07-31T03:57:56.803" UserId="3531" />
  <row Id="7638" PostId="2624" Score="0" Text="Sorry, but you are incorrect, &quot;shumer&quot; or &quot;shumeruli&quot; is Georgian Caucasian way of saying Sumer and Sumerian...connection is undeniable, Georgian is western new name given to Caucasian tribal people, but the real name is &quot;sakartvelo&quot; which means &quot;land of people of Kartlos&quot;...Kartlos was related to Noah who settled in mountains and brought the language derived from Babylon, Sumer and Mesopotamia,..Kartvelian people are just tribal Caucasian people who have preserved Mesopotamian language and culture after &quot;the great deluge&quot;" CreationDate="2017-05-27T20:17:24.440" UserId="3826" />
  <row Id="7639" PostId="2624" Score="0" Text="Georgians are the only ones who speak Language derived from Sumer  known as Asomtavruli http://svanetifood.blogspot.com/2011/10/svaneti.html   connection is undeniable, sorry, Sumerians are not Black they are from Mesopotamia not Africa, I know this &quot;everyone is black&quot; is trendy to some people, but it's not factual or reality, Svans are one of the Georgian (Kartvelian) tribes and connection is crystal clear, Kartvelians have preserved culture, language, symbols and even many names derived from Sumer, even the names of villages bear resemblance, so again sorry this is reality we like it or not." CreationDate="2017-05-27T20:27:38.777" UserId="3826" />
  <row Id="7641" PostId="2624" Score="0" Text="Svans are the highest mountain people of Georgia  &quot;Scientists rightly believe that this old Georgian tribe displays affinity with ancient Sumerians. Suffice to recall some names: Enilile - Sumerian Sun god, Lakhamu - the Sumerian god of the underworld waters. Two villages in Svaneti bear this name. Lakhamu's mother is &quot;Igi&quot; - the earth, &quot;Gim&quot; in Svanetian. Unwritten annals of the Svans have been leafed through for 7 thousands years. It should be a miracle that they have survived to this day - in the form of a myth, a logos, a song&quot;" CreationDate="2017-05-27T20:33:45.320" UserId="3826" />
  <row Id="7698" PostId="2624" Score="0" Text="much of the science behind this is still uncovering evidence, but since we have hit the information age and rapidly are moving in to golden age, everything will be put to light, there is a reason why Borjghali is is the national symbol, and there is a reason for why Asomtavruli is also the basis of Georgian language which has been added to cultural heritages of humanity, so yes, the names, language and symbols of national heritage does matter, at least to scientists and historians." CreationDate="2017-06-04T16:38:28.983" UserId="3826" />
  <row Id="7642" PostId="2626" Score="1" Text="Can you elaborate? What does the phoenix method exactly do? What makes it hard? What stories include the Phoenix method?" CreationDate="2017-05-27T21:42:27.237" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7643" PostId="2626" Score="1" Text="Is is easy in theory, hard in practice. It just needs to burn yourself to reborn, so going through death also. You can lookup references also if you want, on the web, to find its origin is maybe not easy, but sure you can read about phoenixes here-and-there. You can find many images too if you search for it. If you find something interesting please share with us!" CreationDate="2017-05-27T21:58:24.713" UserId="3827" />
  <row Id="7644" PostId="2626" Score="1" Text="Could u provide some references please?" CreationDate="2017-05-27T23:51:11.887" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7646" PostId="2626" Score="0" Text="You can read about the Phoenix (and the Dragon) for example in &quot;Universal Root Myths&quot; by Mario Rodríguez Cobos (Silo), although it is already an interpretation from older sources. You can find it here and you can follow the references in the book: http://www.silo.net/en/collected_works/universal_root_myths" CreationDate="2017-05-29T15:43:31.370" UserId="3827" />
  <row Id="7666" PostId="2626" Score="0" Text="You have to provide more details.  Link to the works and passages that comment on this." CreationDate="2017-06-01T19:36:50.743" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7679" PostId="2626" Score="1" Text="I could only copy the text here, from the mentioned work, as did not found it on the web as a page - otherwise I would have been linked it already. But it is much longer than allowed, so I try to extract the interesting and relevant part about the Phoenix, in next comment. It is very short part of the whole story about the Dragon and the Phoenix - it is worth to read it, I do not want to split it into many comments and overflow with it. Hope you agree. Although Tao needs no references, as You are Tao, too. And me of course. Who else to refer?" CreationDate="2017-06-01T21:24:35.683" UserId="3827" />
  <row Id="7680" PostId="2626" Score="0" Text="The Dragon and the Phoenix&#xA;But Long loves Feng, the Phoenix bird who concentrates the seed of things, who contracts that which Long extends. And when Long and Feng are balanced, the Tao shines like a pearl bathed in the purest light. Long does not struggle against Feng - because they love each other, they search for each other, making the pearl shine. Because of this, the wise arrange their lives according to the balance between the Dragon and the Phoenix - the images of the sacred principles of the Yang and the Yin. The sages position themselves in the empty place, searching for equilibrium." CreationDate="2017-06-01T21:25:39.030" UserId="3827" />
  <row Id="7684" PostId="2626" Score="0" Text="@HoZong haha, sorry.  I was expecting the citations in the answer, so I didn't look for the source in the comments.  I'm upvoting b/c my understanding of the Taoist phoenix is consistent with this answer, but I have to stress that this is quite esoteric material, and you're not likely to get many upvotes without better sourcing.  For instance,  I found links to James Legge's English translations of many source works: http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupname?key=Legge%2C%20James%2C%201815-1897" CreationDate="2017-06-02T15:16:10.587" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7687" PostId="2626" Score="0" Text="@HoZong Essentially, if you want to others to support this answer, you need to put the citations in the answer text, and in this case, give some explanation of the symbols (i.e. how do they represent regeneration and rebirth, a form of immortality) because, again, in this instance, the material is [esoteric](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/esoteric) and needs to be elucidated for the general audience." CreationDate="2017-06-02T17:06:21.583" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7688" PostId="2626" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the suggestion, and edited the answer also with full citation now." CreationDate="2017-06-02T17:23:22.737" UserId="3827" />
  <row Id="7703" PostId="2626" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Thanks for the edit, sure it is better now, English is not my own language, although I'm not Chinese either. Note that the text is already a translation from Spanish. And I read that in Hungarian :) And the last paragraph is really better translated to it, maybe once I can translate it back to English, it would be better than this. And I have some other texts somewhere also about Phoenix, I like this topic and method. But not so much real sources about it..." CreationDate="2017-06-05T21:07:44.760" UserId="3827" />
  <row Id="7704" PostId="2626" Score="0" Text="Well about what it means, that's also in the last paragraph, partly. Because of the fact that the meaning and the mind itself is creation of the mind and meaning, and so do time and space, you can understand more if you know nothing. As it is also changing through time and space... So better you go mad :) if you aim to understand anything. Or do not even try, thats even better for most people..." CreationDate="2017-06-05T21:19:20.923" UserId="3827" />
  <row Id="7705" PostId="2626" Score="0" Text="@HoZong I see it as sort of the underlying &quot;return&quot; principle of the Tao.  The universe, human life, everything is a cycle, and those who unlock the mysteries of the Tao can achieve immortality through some form of physical regeneration.  However, much of what I know on this subject is from oral tradition, and it is not unlikely the re-birth aspect is more modern, and relating to the Ancient Greek conception of the [phoenix](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_(mythology))" CreationDate="2017-06-05T21:50:23.120" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7706" PostId="2626" Score="0" Text="So you got it. Now only implementation can be a next good question. So we got all and nothing..." CreationDate="2017-06-05T22:05:16.717" UserId="3827" />
  <row Id="7647" PostId="2631" Score="0" Text="http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/ Always sacred texts" CreationDate="2017-05-29T17:04:06.880" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7649" PostId="2631" Score="0" Text="Changed it to an answer :)" CreationDate="2017-05-29T19:46:15.800" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7672" PostId="2632" Score="0" Text="I've come across this side before, but never looked too closely.  Seems like an excellent resource for many literary works, such as books involving faeries, now in the public domain!" CreationDate="2017-06-01T20:22:58.797" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7651" PostId="2633" Score="3" Text="Hi, and welcome to Mythology. I think this question as written is better suited for a Stack like Worldbuilding. If you are *creating* a dragon, you can have it do anything you like, including shoot oranges out of its butt. If you want to know if any dragons throughout mythology have been able to shoot something burning underwater, then please edit your question to reflect that." CreationDate="2017-05-30T09:38:54.697" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="7652" PostId="2634" Score="0" Text="Can you give more background info on the succubus?" CreationDate="2017-05-30T20:49:23.397" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7670" PostId="2634" Score="0" Text="My feeling is that the answer must be no, within the traditional framework of mythology where Succubi reside.  (i.e. they are agents of the Adversary, and their only purpose is to corrupt.)  That said, this idea is fruitful ground for contemporary re-invention, which is a component of mythological canons such as the Ancient Greek material, which was &quot;riffed on&quot; and modified by successive generations of storytellers.  The example regarding succubi that leaps to mind is in the Preacher comic books, where a succubus and angel fall in love and face consequences for the betrayal of their masters." CreationDate="2017-06-01T20:17:16.243" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7671" PostId="2634" Score="0" Text="PS the intent of the succubus is not sexual per se--that is merely the method or vehicle that particular infernal entity uses to corrupt the souls of mortals.  The masculine counterpart is the [incubus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incubus)." CreationDate="2017-06-01T20:19:22.383" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7665" PostId="2637" Score="1" Text="Part of the difficulty with questions like this is the expertise of Mythology contributors is rooted in the canons of various mythological traditions, as opposed to invented or transmogrified mythologies in contemporary literary mediums such as comics, film.television and games.  To that end, the more details you can provide on specific elements within the Skyrim mythos, it would be helpful." CreationDate="2017-06-01T19:33:48.530" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7745" PostId="2637" Score="1" Text="@DukeZhou I took it it to actually ask about men born from dragons saving the world from something that will destroy it. There is something positively *gigantic* about the idea, maybe I'll write up something to supplement Gibet's post, since I think bringing up Tiamat was right on the money." CreationDate="2017-06-16T18:22:08.430" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7669" PostId="2638" Score="0" Text="I feel like your casting works as &quot;troll books&quot; without explanation diminishes this answer.  That said, if you were to link, or at least cite, teh relevant passages, this would be an excellent answer.  (I partly ask b/c I know a little about these traditions, but it's not my area of focus, as I suspect is true of many Mythology contributors, so citation would help me validate the information and facilitate upvoting this answer...)" CreationDate="2017-06-01T20:13:04.777" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7683" PostId="2638" Score="0" Text="Fair enough.  I recognize that there aren't the same online resources available for this material as, say, the classical material, but I was able to satisfactory validate.  The Meridiana stuff is very interesting!" CreationDate="2017-06-02T14:54:59.330" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7686" PostId="2638" Score="0" Text="I hear you on the pricing issue on the more obscure material.  My first brush with medieval sources was on microfiche in a university library, and, imo, it's frustrating that the material is not all available online by now.  (I think it's especially important for these subjects b/c there are so many spurious contemporary sources on the internet.)   PS: Don't be shy about utilizing Stack Latin--Latin is not my strong suit either and they were enormously helpful with a recent answer where I needed corroboration of my own translation of a couple passages." CreationDate="2017-06-02T15:42:33.483" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7658" PostId="2640" Score="6" Text="Cronus is neither actually nor &quot;effectively&quot; dead. The bit about Kronos getting chopped into pieces or some such appears to be a modern invention (of Rick Riordan?). A number of different accounts of his fate have been given in Greek sources, but the closest to that that I can find would be a castration. In most accounts he is imprisoned, and in some he later escapes or is freed and becomes a King. He is decidedly *not* killed." CreationDate="2017-05-31T17:28:16.797" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="7691" PostId="2640" Score="0" Text="PS Welcome to Stack Mythology!  (It's actually useful to get some disambiguation on the &quot;Ouranous chopped into pieces&quot; we've been hearing a fair bit about lately.  I do want to point out that this version, regardless of origin, is quite similar to the dismemberment of [Ymir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ymir), so even if it derives from Riordan or some other modern source, the idea in relation to a primal deity is quite ancient--[Osiris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris) is also famously dismembered." CreationDate="2017-06-02T19:10:18.353" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7824" PostId="2640" Score="0" Text="I believe that the Killing Greek Gods theme comes mainly from the popular game God of War, which I haven't played, a guy named Kratos (Who I believe was an actual Greek mythological character, related to Styx), kills Ares or Athena or Zeus or some such. This is the most popular source for Greek mythological knowledge, bar Riordan, and this might influence people into thinking that they can be killed." CreationDate="2017-07-08T14:41:52.177" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="7667" PostId="2643" Score="3" Text="I notice you added a link for Wikipedia.  Good start but not sufficient for upvotes.  Please take the next step and run down the source of the Wikipedia reference, and post that source instead of the Wikipedia page.  (Ideally, the source should be academic, but Theoi is also considered reliable b/c it's easy to validate the accuracy of the material posted there.)  Once you have a root source, the answer will be up-votable." CreationDate="2017-06-01T19:44:10.003" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7668" PostId="2643" Score="2" Text="Man, Some of you Stack Exchange users are SO Hardcore" CreationDate="2017-06-01T19:51:01.113" UserId="3850" />
  <row Id="7690" PostId="2643" Score="2" Text="@Xynozore haha--it's just that we're trying to improve the quality of this Stack by pushing for better citations.  I don't necessarily disagree with anything you're saying, just wanted to give you some perspective on why the answer has not been more well received.  (Full disclosure, I do on occasion post answers without heavy referencing, but if they get challenged or down-voted, I generally have to go back and amend.)  My advice here would be to cite the source material for &quot;Ouranus was never able to have a physical form again.&quot; and you're good.  PS Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-06-02T19:03:14.203" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7692" PostId="2643" Score="1" Text="Sorry, just joking!" CreationDate="2017-06-02T21:35:45.693" UserId="3850" />
  <row Id="7676" PostId="2644" Score="3" Text="This is a tough one b/c it requires running down the first appearances of the glyph, and analyzing the meaning in the context of the culture of the time.  There was certainly connection between ancient China and Europe per the silk roads and steppe hordes, but my *guess* is the yin/yang connection is modern.  (I'm also not convinced with what I've found so far online explaining the meaning of the glyph.  The hermetic literature may provide some insight on the meaning of the glyph, but I'd look for medieval sources as opposed to contemporary astrology.)" CreationDate="2017-06-01T20:50:51.513" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7693" PostId="2648" Score="3" Text="Yeah, Gaiman's always pretty good on his mythology. I mean, the guy wrote the book on Norse Mythology ([This one](https://www.amazon.com/Norse-Mythology-Neil-Gaiman/dp/039360909X), specifically)." CreationDate="2017-06-02T21:51:24.633" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="7689" PostId="2649" Score="1" Text="It's been a while since I looked at the Palladium, but it's a subject of great interest so I'll definitely run this down and clarify for you when I get a few minutes *(unless someone beats me to it;)*  Did you know there is a theory that the object was a hunk of meteorite iron: [Myth and Geology](https://books.google.com/books?id=F7pZfLUoHJIC&amp;pg=PA222&amp;lpg=PA222&amp;dq=palladium+meteorite+iron+mythology&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=vOgNgkEdMI&amp;sig=a_LnwWYbU4jBD2I1uY5cWwt41fU&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig87G44p_UAhXJxlQKHWQUCmQQ6AEIKDAB#v=onepage&amp;q=palladium%20meteorite%20iron%20mythology&amp;f=false). Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-06-02T18:18:35.707" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7699" PostId="2649" Score="0" Text="If interested, I amended the answer with links to scholarly sources on the relevant passages.  Thanks again for an excellent question!" CreationDate="2017-06-05T18:29:44.487" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7694" PostId="2651" Score="0" Text="Thanks for that lexical link!  (The Old Norse lexicon on Perseus, alas, appears to be quite lacking.  Haven't been able to search with the accent, and even directly linking &quot;Grímr&quot; from Gríms saga yields an empty page.)  The mask definition is elucidating, and provides a better understanding on why Gaiman used it where he did." CreationDate="2017-06-03T22:07:36.893" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8326" PostId="2654" Score="0" Text="Let's find out how Pan died: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/2978/3230" CreationDate="2017-09-20T21:43:03.367" UserId="3230" />
  <row Id="10788" PostId="2654" Score="0" Text="Given that this text was written during the Christian era, it is safe to say that it is non-canon and highly metaphorical. There is no instance of a god dying in actual Greek mythology." CreationDate="2018-08-04T19:44:45.077" UserId="5257" />
  <row Id="10884" PostId="2654" Score="1" Text="Here is a quote from book 5.418 of The Iliad, which seems to indicate that a god can die:&#xA;&#xA;&quot;Ares might have wasted away there on the spot&#xA;if the monster's stepmother, beautiful Eriboea&#xA;had not sent for Hermes, and out of the cauldron&#xA;Hermes stole him away---the War-god breathing his last,&#xA;all but broken down by the ruthless iron chains.&quot;" CreationDate="2018-10-04T15:23:40.893" UserId="5420" />
  <row Id="10987" PostId="2654" Score="0" Text="@Digio My understanding is that the Moralia were published sometime around 100 AD, hardly the Christian era?" CreationDate="2018-11-01T16:51:40.823" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="10994" PostId="2654" Score="0" Text="@CharlieTizzardÓKevlahan Still, this is highly linked to the advent of Christianity, see also [the citations provided here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(god)#%22The_Great_God_Pan_is_dead%22). It cannot be viewed as a reference on Greek mythology." CreationDate="2018-11-02T10:55:20.960" UserId="5257" />
  <row Id="7701" PostId="2655" Score="0" Text="This is sort of a philosophical question, so more elaboration would be helpful.  I have to advise you that any answer would be a matter of opinion, although such hypotheses, so long as they can be supported with evidence, can be worthwhile.  *(Answers to this question should certainly be supported by archeological and textual evidence.)*  I'd also advise you that this may be more of a question for the Philosophy Stack.  Regardless, welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-06-05T20:55:05.447" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7702" PostId="2655" Score="1" Text="My high level answer would be: yes, they were probably incredibly religious, regardless of whether they were worshipping a rock or some sky god.  *(Archetypes are a recent concept, and represent only one strain of mythological analysis, associated with Carl Jung.)*  Where it gets cloudy is  5th century Athens with the rise of humanism and post-Socratic philosophy, Plato in particular, who started to re-cast the literal stories as metaphors.  Ancient Greek literature has a subversive element which is generally regarded as undermining the gods and leading to humanism." CreationDate="2017-06-05T20:59:56.170" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7708" PostId="2655" Score="0" Text="Apparently I must repeat myself, it is not to draw a line between today's &quot;atheists&quot; and them just living the lives they had, without the need for a transcendental being." CreationDate="2017-06-06T12:14:29.643" UserId="3872" />
  <row Id="7710" PostId="2655" Score="1" Text="In the right direction. What I am wondering is that those acts could be a form of religion in one perspective, but a type of cultural/tribal &quot;group-think&quot; in another. The desire to build temples, pyramids, mosques, etc. could be the result of: religion, or a way of life that most of us do not experience now? Good example for the pyramids, but what what was the motivation behind it?" CreationDate="2017-06-06T13:56:46.420" UserId="3872" />
  <row Id="7712" PostId="2655" Score="0" Text="Great! I would like to read what is on _your_ mind!" CreationDate="2017-06-06T16:04:34.617" UserId="3872" />
  <row Id="7713" PostId="2655" Score="0" Text="Part of the problem for me is Indo-European is quite broad.  If the Greek pantheon is allowed, I can give you numerous examples of transcendental belief and ritual, and explicate how Greek ideas merged with Jewish ideas in Christian mythology, transcendental ideas specifically.  You mention Norse in the tags, and even there, the idea of a glorious afterlife for warriors slain in battle would seem to be transcendental.  Of course, it partly depends on how you define transcendental..." CreationDate="2017-06-07T15:50:33.603" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7714" PostId="2655" Score="0" Text="I think you need to nail down more clearly what you are trying to ask here. The term &quot;religious&quot; is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary: &quot;Action or conduct indicating belief in, obedience to, and reverence for a god, gods, or similar superhuman power&quot;. You are using your own definition of the term, which is confusing. Same with &quot;atheist&quot;, by no reasonable definition of that term would that be true. I'd recommend you remove the term &quot;religious&quot; and replace it with exactly what you mean there." CreationDate="2017-06-07T17:22:34.453" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="7715" PostId="2655" Score="0" Text="I'll just leave it as it is. My trade does not involve knowing the fine details of the english language. Any more description from me would likely not bring anything new to the discussion. Sorry, but that's just not my specialty. I was being curious as to what everyone thought on the subject." CreationDate="2017-06-07T17:34:26.123" UserId="3872" />
  <row Id="7717" PostId="2657" Score="0" Text="It's interesting. The reason I felt necessary to bring it up was that of the idea that the gods and goddesses of old could have been real people or aliens, I don't know. Essentially, it could have been a group of people that were highly influencial in their times to have deserved to stay on peoples lips beyond their deaths. Of course, as all things passed down vocally, stories change and it would have to be our job to not necessarily take stories like the Eleusinian Mysteries too seriously." CreationDate="2017-06-09T14:18:34.923" UserId="3872" />
  <row Id="7718" PostId="2657" Score="0" Text="I liken it to how some of the Japanese, when first laid eyes upon a train, decided to call it a fire-breathing dragon, or whatever name they could come up with at the time. The appearance of a god or goddess, as I see it, are representations or real events that have been distorted unintentionally and intentionally, depending on the tongue that spoke.&#xA;&#xA;I'm going to post this as an edit to see if it attracts any renewed attention. Thank you." CreationDate="2017-06-09T14:18:41.293" UserId="3872" />
  <row Id="7741" PostId="2657" Score="0" Text="@Numbers682 I don't have any objections to your theory of origin of myths, but that is a distinct question from &quot;religiosity&quot;, which has to do with belief and ritual." CreationDate="2017-06-15T16:56:25.590" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7746" PostId="2659" Score="1" Text="Is the fairy godmother really winged? The one in the Disney film is, but are wings mentioned in any of the recorded tales? If yes, in which telling?" CreationDate="2017-06-16T20:30:33.183" UserId="295" />
  <row Id="7747" PostId="2659" Score="1" Text="OK, I looked it up. In Grimm, there is no godmother at all, it is [a bush on the mother's grave](http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/-6248/16). In Perrault, there is a godmother who is a fairy, a *fée* in the [original](http://www.alalettre.com/perrault-oeuvres-cendrillon.php). Even a quick look over the Wikipedia page shows that the french fée is not that likely to be winged, https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9e. It has a section which cites research on fairy origin. I wouldn't wonder if the winged fairy turns out to be a 19th century English thing, after some book." CreationDate="2017-06-16T20:53:56.397" UserId="295" />
  <row Id="7748" PostId="2659" Score="1" Text="and based on that article, it seems that a good place to search the answer would be in the work of [Katharine Mary Briggs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Mary_Briggs) (I don't have the time to do it, whoever does is welcome to write it up and get the rep!)" CreationDate="2017-06-16T20:56:07.167" UserId="295" />
  <row Id="7723" PostId="2660" Score="2" Text="If it does, you definitely came to the right place to find the answer.  Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-06-11T21:43:47.847" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7722" PostId="2661" Score="2" Text="Great answer!  *(I took the liberty of finding citations from the book for the powers you mention to support the answer :)*  Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-06-11T21:42:17.307" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7872" PostId="2661" Score="1" Text="Bravo! Excellent first answer. I'd never heard of Elkin; I suspect some of his work could be helpful for other questions in this site." CreationDate="2017-07-19T12:10:08.490" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="7754" PostId="2662" Score="2" Text="Fragarach is a sword from Celtic mythology, according to the Wikipedia page no one can move our lie with the sword at their throat." CreationDate="2017-06-18T20:43:51.737" UserId="2803" />
  <row Id="7755" PostId="2662" Score="0" Text="I'll upvote if you formally post an answer. The idea that [Fragarach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragarach) could &quot;cut through any shield or wall, and had a piercing wound from which no man could recover&quot; are pretty good metaphors for truth imo. [Wikipedia page needs a citation, but we could probably run that down in a separate question.]" CreationDate="2017-06-18T20:58:54.360" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7725" PostId="2663" Score="0" Text="Artemis and Athens from Greek mythology, Freya from Norse mythology and the Morrigan from Celtic mythology" CreationDate="2017-06-13T04:44:19.763" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7728" PostId="2672" Score="0" Text="I understand that...unfortunately my tutor isn't the best at writing questions, and its honestly one of the most ambiguous questions I've read in all my time. Any ideas on how to approach this?" CreationDate="2017-05-16T12:41:33.057" UserId="3779" />
  <row Id="7729" PostId="2672" Score="0" Text="Yes.  Heroes journey by Campbell, plus Bly.  You are on the right track with Roman gravitas, Renaissance culture and modern public relations." CreationDate="2017-05-16T12:59:15.737" UserDisplayName="Mark C. Wallace" />
  <row Id="7732" PostId="2672" Score="0" Text="It will likely be helpful to look at the origin of the term &quot;[hero](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hero)&quot;, used since at least Hesiod, and [related to Hera](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Hera), Queen of Olympus." CreationDate="2017-06-14T17:58:46.127" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7733" PostId="2672" Score="0" Text="It would be helpful if you could define the &quot;classical model&quot; of a hero. &#xA;The only way to reconcile characters like Achilles, Hector, Ajax and Polyxena is the value of honor &gt; life.  (Traditional warrior cultures tend to be honor/shame based, without the prohibition against suicide, which is one distinction between the traditional and modern conception of the hero...)   It's a good question, and I will be circling back to a formal answer." CreationDate="2017-06-14T18:10:34.770" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7734" PostId="2672" Score="0" Text="The social values argument is flawed, per [Antigone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigone_(Sophocles_play)) and the gals of the [Lysistrata](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysistrata).  Even exploration is covered in the ancient canon, per figures like Jason and the Argonauts, who venture into the unknown at risk of their lives." CreationDate="2017-06-14T18:15:04.713" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7739" PostId="2674" Score="0" Text="Yes, I have heard about the unorganized, or perhaps nonexistence, priesthood with regard to the lack of burial graves that would identify those people. I was told that it was likely due to the individual choosing to follow that way of life and that it never was intended to be a way to gain fame or popularity. Otherwise, very interesting!" CreationDate="2017-06-15T13:13:57.227" UserId="3872" />
  <row Id="7740" PostId="2674" Score="0" Text="@Numbers682 - Well, to clarify a bit, it is really saying the PIE people likely didn't have priests, so there's no common conception of them between all their descendants. Its *not* saying their descendants didn't have priests. We know for a fact the Celts and Hittites had them (although in both cases they had political roles as well)." CreationDate="2017-06-15T14:38:37.207" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="7742" PostId="2674" Score="0" Text="@T.E.D. Very well put! I feel like the parable of the dog and the vacuum cleaner may be apropos.  To wit: my dog is terrified of it.  She has no basis for that terror, other than the noise presumably, but her terror is real, as is, I suspect, her &quot;belief&quot; in the fiendish nature of the vacuum." CreationDate="2017-06-15T17:08:13.307" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7751" PostId="2675" Score="0" Text="By any chance, do u  know what was the origin of the fairies from the Midsummer Night's Dream particularly?" CreationDate="2017-06-17T09:54:01.387" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7757" PostId="2675" Score="0" Text="Afraid I'm no expert on shakespear, but I don't think they were the winged fairies either. See this illustration of the fairies: https://www.bl.uk/britishlibrary/~/media/bl/global/dl%20shakespeare/shakespeare%20collection%20items/the-first-illustrated-works-2302_b_14_vol2_midsummer_frontispiece.jpg  In particular, I remember Puck was more akin to a Greek Satyr than anything" CreationDate="2017-06-19T10:09:17.127" UserId="2762" />
  <row Id="7758" PostId="2675" Score="0" Text="Even much later they were illustrated as hardly being the traditional Disney tinkerbell style fairy: See this picture by Joseph Noel Paton: &quot;Puck and the Fairies&quot; - 1850 - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Joseph_Noel_Paton_-_Puck_and_Fairies%2C_from_%22A_Midsummer_Night%27s_Dream%22_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg" CreationDate="2017-06-19T10:15:46.590" UserId="2762" />
  <row Id="7759" PostId="2675" Score="0" Text="in any case, we're they based on celtic or Scottish myths?" CreationDate="2017-06-19T14:54:34.200" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="7752" PostId="2677" Score="0" Text="This may qualify as a holy symbol for one of the [reconstructed &quot;Heathen&quot; religions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathenry_(new_religious_movement)), and wearing it may give people the impression that you adhere to one of those yourself." CreationDate="2017-06-17T15:20:03.293" UserId="1345" />
  <row Id="7750" PostId="2678" Score="0" Text="Something to do with [alpha to omega](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_Omega) ?" CreationDate="2017-06-17T04:22:17.017" UserId="3904" />
  <row Id="7749" PostId="2680" Score="2" Text="I didn't even think to comment on Yggdrasil. You're absolutely right. To better serve the community, in case some aren't familiar with the myth, do you think you can add some sources to your answer? Thanks and welcome to Mythology.StackExchange!" CreationDate="2017-06-16T22:25:09.540" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="8706" PostId="2681" Score="0" Text="Even Zeus couldn't put the toothpaste back in the tube?" CreationDate="2017-12-18T23:52:01.717" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="7756" PostId="2683" Score="1" Text="I've amended my answer to include several other possible references." CreationDate="2017-06-19T02:00:09.937" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7760" PostId="2684" Score="0" Text="Ares and Athena during the Trojan War?" CreationDate="2017-06-19T15:09:54.090" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="7762" PostId="2690" Score="0" Text="This gets me thinking of [Frazer](http://www.bartleby.com/196/7.html) on magic.  [Warning: the link is to Bartelby and has ultra-obnoxious popup ads!]  I chose that link for the quote: &quot;the notion that things which have once been conjoined must remain ever afterwards, even when quite dissevered from each other, in such a sympathetic relation that whatever is done to the one must similarly affect the other.&quot;  Thus, to possess the heart of Koschei is to have power over Koschei.  *(I'd have to re-read the story to provide more detail, but if you provide more details, I'm happy to comment.)*" CreationDate="2017-06-21T18:32:50.920" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7773" PostId="2690" Score="1" Text="Based on what I've read about  Koschei, I wouldn't assume him to be dead, but the concepts of sympathetic magic can also extend to the heart possessing part of  Koschei's magical power.  It being Gaiman, I wouldn't even be surprised if there's a little Wizard of Oz influence, but I can't support this hypothesis. :)" CreationDate="2017-06-23T16:39:50.497" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9051" PostId="2690" Score="1" Text="Could be that she wants to bury him for good. Baba Yaga was also associated with goddess of death Morana. She has power to call spirits of the dead to help her or advise her. She also makes sure that corpses stay dead. Burning bodies, crushing bones and leaving their ashes in urns on wooden poles near crossroads. Making sure that their souls can not return to their bodies." CreationDate="2018-02-27T12:28:59.700" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="11251" PostId="2690" Score="1" Text="Hi, I know it's been a long time since this thread was up but I wanted to thank @Gallifreyan for giving me an opportunity to dig a bit in the Slavic Myths and Folklore, which we don't hear a lot about." CreationDate="2019-01-31T15:04:40.600" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="7765" PostId="2691" Score="1" Text="Even though I doubt Pausnias had a qwerty keyboard, r is suspiciously close to t and k is kinda close to h..." CreationDate="2017-06-21T23:53:04.337" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7766" PostId="2691" Score="0" Text="Haha! Indeed! It cannot have been a Qwerty... coz that fellow used a T9 cellphone NumPad in that antique pre-touchscreen era :D (That's why it was so tough keeping track of those spelling boo-boos ;-P )" CreationDate="2017-06-22T06:42:05.687" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7767" PostId="2691" Score="0" Text="Great answer.  I wasn't even thinking about pre-Apollo Delphi!" CreationDate="2017-06-22T16:52:05.933" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7768" PostId="2691" Score="1" Text="PS: I doubt very much the rho-kappa and theta are interchangeable.  The folks on Latin could likely confirm this. You're dealing with different roots--&quot;pur&quot; for fire vs. &quot;puth&quot; for for divination (but related to &quot;rotting&quot;) and they are listed as deriving from different PIE stems.  Still I still see a connection in the &quot;py&quot;. Fire represents a type of divine inspiration, related to divination (remember that Prometheus means &quot;forethought&quot;, a form of looking into the future.)  It's not random that &quot;bright&quot; Apollo became patron of Delphi, and his light can be helpful or destructive, like the sun." CreationDate="2017-06-22T16:56:18.877" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7770" PostId="2691" Score="1" Text="Thank you. &amp; right you are. I am certainly not suggesting that the writer himself mistook &quot;ρκ&quot; for &quot;θ&quot;, but rather more along the lines of a scribal copyist's error, or something like a Freudian slip: the writer meant to inscribe &quot;Πύθων&quot; but jotted down &quot;Πύρκων&quot; instead. In the context of the passage, however, I find that extremely unlikely (Pausanias seems to mean that the _Eumolpia_ definitely has a _**Pyrkon**_ in mind as the primaeval prophet of Delphian Poseidon), which is why I do suggest that perhaps the dragon's name could have sounded a bit different in a variant tradition." CreationDate="2017-06-22T21:29:15.300" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7771" PostId="2691" Score="1" Text="Your points on the symbolism at work here in reference to divination, Prometheus and Apollo[n] are all spot-on! I was tempted to include in my Answer a note that perhaps Pyrkon has something to do with fire, as his (or her?) name can be broken up in to &quot;Πύρ&quot; (just like you've observed) + κων. But because I've got nothing sensible to offer for the 2nd syllable here (might U happen to know if it could plausibly mean anything in Ancient Greek?), I decided to just leave it at the aforementioned commentary." CreationDate="2017-06-22T21:31:28.670" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7772" PostId="2691" Score="1" Text="The second syllable is just the conjugation, and it wouldn't be considered meaningful, but when I looked at (loosely) κων I did come across κῶνα which is equated to πίσσα (&quot;pitch&quot; as in the kind that burns,) and it's also related to κώνης, as in &quot;pine cones&quot; which topped the thyrsus.  I can't recall if these cones were actually ever lit, but the thyrsus is associated with divine madness, which is a type of divine inspiration, similar to the pythoness' trance." CreationDate="2017-06-23T16:36:14.463" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7775" PostId="2691" Score="1" Text="A fiery thyrsus strikes me as a rather priestly (or prophetic) symbol. I wonder if Hesychius's _pyrkooi_ might have wielded any kind of sceptre. All these links to fire &amp; pitch, etc (if they genuinely are present in this particular aspect of the mythos or tradition) would be quite interesting since they would be the attributes of a character associated with the god of the sea." CreationDate="2017-06-23T19:40:27.460" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7776" PostId="2691" Score="1" Text="@Adinkra I don't know if I've come across them as part of this tradition specifically, but was thinking in general how the symbols relate.  It also occurred to me with the &quot;rotting&quot; root of Python, things only rot in the sun and heat.  Python/Pyrkon/Drakon/Typhon seem all to be connected." CreationDate="2017-06-24T03:52:40.310" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7777" PostId="2691" Score="1" Text="Incidentally, I was looking at [πυρκόος](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=purko%2Fos&amp;la=greek&amp;can=purko%2Fos0&amp;prior=purkai+o/s) today, and the second part of the word, derived from [κοέω](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=koe%2Fw&amp;la=greek&amp;can=koe%2Fw0&amp;prior=on) means &quot;perceive&quot;.  But when I searched on [κόος](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=ko%2Fos&amp;la=greek#lexicon) specifically it led me to a word that means &quot;cave&quot;.  I don't know what serious linguists would make of that, but it is certainly interesting." CreationDate="2017-06-24T03:55:08.700" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7778" PostId="2691" Score="0" Text="All very good stuff! The divining _pyrkooi_ being &quot;fire-seers&quot; makes a lot of sense. That also makes Frazer's connection between them &amp; Musaeus's Pyrkon yet more convincing too. If they are indeed linked to the Delphian dragon, then the &quot;cave&quot; interpretation is also of interest since the monster serpent seems to be a[n at least partly] subterraneous creature. Alternatively, could there be a derivation from [κοῖος](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BA%CE%BF%E1%BF%96%CE%BF%CF%82) (which, mythically speaking, is the name of Apollon's maternal grandfather)?" CreationDate="2017-06-24T12:08:12.423" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7781" PostId="2691" Score="1" Text="@Adrinka  Brilliant insight. It make absolute sense that Apollo's grandfather is [Coeus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeus) representing intellect and the inquisitive mind.  The PIE roots aren't listed on the etymology link, so I'd have to do more digging.  We also shouldn't overlook Pandora as *[pithou](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=pi%2Fqos&amp;la=greek&amp;can=pi%2Fqos0&amp;prior=piqokoi/th#lexicon)*, which is very close to the puth (pyth) root for Python and everything involving Delphi." CreationDate="2017-06-24T21:21:50.300" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7783" PostId="2691" Score="1" Text="I also take back what I said about the κων in Πύρκων not being meaningful *(I'd forgotten we were taking about a name, where compound words are standard.)*  κων is also the root of &quot;cone&quot; *(the Ancient Greeks were obsessed with conic sections;)*  My new theory is that Pyrkos means volcano, for which there wasn't a formal word, as distinct from the non-fiery, but still vaporous, Python.  [Here is an interesting essay](http://www.crystalinks.com/volcanomyth.html) that makes the point about &quot;volcanic gas naturally released from both active and many inactive volcanoes.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-06-24T21:30:48.747" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7793" PostId="2691" Score="0" Text="Yet more great material! I've added a note to my Answer indicating your _Pyr-Konos_ = &quot;Fire-Cone&quot; input." CreationDate="2017-06-28T05:55:17.083" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7787" PostId="2693" Score="1" Text="These are not the &quot;common, categorical names&quot; requested by the question." CreationDate="2017-06-26T07:52:01.223" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="8438" PostId="2693" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka On Stack Exchange, it's generally accepted that if the answer is &quot;there is no answer&quot;, it's fine to provide alternatives that do the same thing, albeit in a way different from what the question asked. So, for example, if there isn't a common word, making up one that makes sense is acceptable, so long as it's clearly stated that that's what happened." CreationDate="2017-10-08T16:54:54.517" UserDisplayName="anon" />
  <row Id="7790" PostId="2695" Score="2" Text="I also heard something about Metis being swallowed, guide for someone who wants to answer..." CreationDate="2017-06-27T16:35:32.923" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="14759" PostId="2695" Score="1" Text="Was the brain or head even considered the seat of intellectual function that long ago?" CreationDate="2021-12-09T23:14:02.983" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="7788" PostId="2697" Score="0" Text="Thank you for your answer. Do you know if such coins are on sale? How much do they cost?" CreationDate="2017-06-27T16:31:30.780" UserId="3944" />
  <row Id="7789" PostId="2697" Score="1" Text="https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/mike_vosper/164/product/ceftbu__south_east_gaul_massalia_ar_obol_ca9050bc/876432/Default.aspx and https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/tosunyan_numismatic__co_kig-256/ancient-coins/Default.aspx? and https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/mike_vosper/164/product/cebwud__gaul_helvetia_vendelici_2_x_ar_obols_14_quinarius/876436/Default.aspx" CreationDate="2017-06-27T16:34:15.653" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7797" PostId="2700" Score="0" Text="This is a very good, and I think the direct, answer.  Athena definitely combines the qualities of her mother and father!  The point about the son is also relevant, as Athena has both feminine and masculine qualities.  (For instance she bears a spear. She is armored.)" CreationDate="2017-06-29T00:20:34.527" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7798" PostId="2703" Score="0" Text="I always assumed it was identical in Roman as it was in Greek, but I'll look into it" CreationDate="2017-06-29T02:12:15.450" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7799" PostId="2704" Score="1" Text="Very interesting. Thank you!&#xA;&#xA;Update: hang on, Sol &lt;=&gt; Helios? This all makes a lot more sense now . . ." CreationDate="2017-06-29T02:35:31.923" UserId="3950" />
  <row Id="7800" PostId="2706" Score="2" Text="However, it is also possible that since Hera planted the seed in the garden of the Hesperides, who were daughters of Atlas, thus making it technically *his* property, Atlas came to regard himself as having some claim over it, whether or not he actually did. So, that when Perseus came, he refused him by that imaginary right. Of course, it could well be, that case of insecurity in his own power [ If this guy is so brave and great as a mortal, how good would he be as an *immortal*?]. Note that I have absolutely zero references for this." CreationDate="2017-06-29T14:42:12.390" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="7801" PostId="2706" Score="0" Text="@MalayTheDynamo nice analysis though.  keep it up!" CreationDate="2017-06-29T15:24:43.113" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7809" PostId="2706" Score="1" Text="@MalayTheDynamo looking into the *immortal* part. Do you know where you got the immortal part from?" CreationDate="2017-06-29T21:55:19.983" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7810" PostId="2706" Score="0" Text="`...that Atlas is a giant, not a Titan.` Wait wait wait Atlas is the son of Iapetus and Clymene, how in the world could he be a giant (gigantes)?" CreationDate="2017-06-30T03:24:26.173" UserId="3944" />
  <row Id="7813" PostId="2706" Score="2" Text="@PrittBalagopal This isn't a single narrative. There are several variations of the myth, and Atlas parentage isn't necessarily the same in each variation. Also, Ovid's telling ends with Atlas turning into stone. That renders it completely incompatible with the versions of the stories that concern Atlas dealings with Herakles. If Perseus turned Atlas into stone, it would be impossible for Herakles (who was Perseus great-grandson) to meet him." CreationDate="2017-06-30T03:57:54.040" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7814" PostId="2706" Score="1" Text="@DukeZhou In Norse Mythology, golden apples are said to be a source of immortality. Also, given that Gaia had given them as gifts, and since she was so powerful due to being a primordial, it kind of fits." CreationDate="2017-06-30T09:22:01.897" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="7815" PostId="2706" Score="0" Text="In addition to the mentioned alternative stories it also makes sense for the interpretation in the question above: Atlas's daughters are supposed to guard the tree so Atlas should have an interest in them fulfilling their duty. If Perseus steals from them, Hera might punish them and possibly him as well." CreationDate="2017-07-02T06:42:07.377" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="7802" PostId="2707" Score="1" Text="IIRC golden apples + immortality = some other mythology (other than norse, if there is one for norse). Now everyone thinks it's greek because of Rick Riordan" CreationDate="2017-06-29T17:05:04.307" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7803" PostId="2707" Score="2" Text="@bleh After a quick search this [link](http://norse-mythology.org/tales/the-kidnapping-of-idun/) talks about the norse myth, mentioning it's not necessarily about apples. Do you mean wikipedia mistakes the Riordan stuff for the actual mythology? I don't remember immortality apples in what I've read of Riordan but in any case it seems odd that someone will write the wikipedia article based on it." CreationDate="2017-06-29T17:32:36.760" UserId="3952" />
  <row Id="7804" PostId="2707" Score="3" Text="Wikipedia should not be using Riordan's stories as a source except possibly in a subsection for contemporary literature.  I understand that he has written a fairly faithful adaptation of the stories, but again, it's not a scholarly source. The confusion may make the connection per the [Peaches of Immortality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaches_of_Immortality), or, more likely, Idun's apples.  The Wikipedia section has no reference, which is suspicious, but not definitive.  This needs looking into.  Thanks for bringing it to our attention!" CreationDate="2017-06-29T17:43:50.900" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7805" PostId="2707" Score="0" Text="Idun is associated with immortality per her ability to grant eternal youthfulness.  *(Hopefully the Norse experts will weigh in an provide more detail on her apples;)*" CreationDate="2017-06-29T17:51:49.777" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7806" PostId="2707" Score="0" Text="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hesperides&amp;oldid=3036215 This seems to be the revision that rooted the idea..." CreationDate="2017-06-29T17:52:54.783" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7807" PostId="2707" Score="0" Text="https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/61317/apple-of-discord Move this to chat" CreationDate="2017-06-29T17:56:51.373" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7808" PostId="2707" Score="0" Text="Well that revision bleh found is over a year older than _The Lightning Thief_, so it's less likely to be related to Riordan. Still there might be a greek source we don't know about...? @DukeZhou I didn't know about those peaches, that's really interesting, thanks for sharing!" CreationDate="2017-06-29T18:27:51.187" UserId="3952" />
  <row Id="7811" PostId="2707" Score="0" Text="@bleh None or the Percy Jackson series nor the Heroes of Olympus series involve eating golden apples." CreationDate="2017-06-30T03:26:20.000" UserId="3944" />
  <row Id="7812" PostId="2707" Score="1" Text="The myth book thing, in great heroes, hercules' chapter i believe" CreationDate="2017-06-30T03:46:35.920" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7823" PostId="2715" Score="0" Text="NIce, nice. It's interesting. Angels when taken forms in material world could come of various sources. Who knows if they could couple with a egg borned creature? The Snake and Giants could be the same if you think in therms of dinossaurs. As you would say.... I know this is absurd and too imaginative ..... lol , Just expanding the context." CreationDate="2017-07-07T18:38:23.093" UserId="1315" />
  <row Id="7820" PostId="2716" Score="2" Text="@A Child of God thx for taking the time to answer, +1. however this answer doesn't solve the puzzle. your statements render those attributes you described are freely purported without supporting evidences." CreationDate="2017-07-07T12:57:08.863" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7821" PostId="2716" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I've edited my question. I thought maybe it's possible giants were egg-born ;)." CreationDate="2017-07-07T13:41:11.137" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="16496" PostId="2718" Score="0" Text="6 years later... I forgot I even wrote this, let alone remembering to &quot;finish&quot; it with the Germanic side of the coin.  What a nerd." CreationDate="2023-09-24T09:33:16.380" UserId="3955" />
  <row Id="7826" PostId="2719" Score="0" Text="Good question. Welcome to mythology!" CreationDate="2017-07-12T21:34:30.197" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7868" PostId="2719" Score="0" Text="Quite possibly predates the Osiris myth." CreationDate="2017-07-12T18:45:18.263" UserId="3981" />
  <row Id="7864" PostId="2721" Score="0" Text="thx the detailed and well-researched answer! agree that traditional common culture things are prone to corruption over time and repeated repeating. thus this whole stuff is left for imagination and free interpretation. it's puzzling when the Bible used Sons of God and daughters of humans... there were humans not from Adam and Eve? Sons were not humans... etc. it is this vague memory of lost human history that enchanted the human psyche that created mythology, i believe." CreationDate="2017-07-18T15:30:21.813" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7887" PostId="2722" Score="1" Text="Herakles does not fetch the apples personally from the garden, but rather delegates Atlas to do it for him. Atlas's role in the story of the eleventh labor dates back at least to the fifth century B.C., as witnessed by the metopes of the temple of Zeus at Olympia." CreationDate="2017-07-19T22:37:43.913" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="7890" PostId="2722" Score="1" Text="Touché! Although there is a parallel version reported by, e.g., [Pseudo-]Apollodorus, in which &quot;Some say, however, that he did not take the apples from Atlas, but killed the _ophis_ that guarded them, and picked them himself.&quot; Among the &quot;some&quot;, it would seem, might be included Apollonius Rhodius' _Argonautika_ (going back to the 3rd century BC), &amp; in which Herakles—more plausibly characteristic of him, at least as far as I can tell—violently leaves the garden a shambles &amp; the Hesperides themselves so devastated by his robbery of their treasure that they miserably change into trees." CreationDate="2017-07-20T11:42:20.397" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7891" PostId="2722" Score="1" Text="Thank you for pointing this out. I've so generally tended to favour the version of the story in which Atlas is actually, at this point in the story, the mountain upon which the Hesperides' garden is located, that I forget about the (more popular/famous) version in which Atlas is the one who procures the apples on Herakles' behalf. I have edited my answer to acknowledge the version you have aptly indicated." CreationDate="2017-07-20T11:46:00.217" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7886" PostId="2723" Score="3" Text="Nausicaa's myth bears some resemblance to those of Medea, Helen, Ariadne, and Dido: each is divinely swayed to fall in love with a foreign adventurer, by a goddess who is the man's special patroness; and this love leads to forlorn-ness and sorrow for the woman, and some degree of loss or ruin for her people. Nausicaa's is perhaps the gentlest version of the pattern." CreationDate="2017-07-19T22:18:06.580" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="11849" PostId="2723" Score="0" Text="Hello! So I'm looking at some old unanswered questions, and I came across yours. I'm trying to find an answer for it, but I'm unsure of what your question is asking. What exactly do you mean by &quot;symbolize&quot;? Do you want to know who she is? What she did?" CreationDate="2019-08-20T19:00:18.097" UserDisplayName="user6252" />
  <row Id="11857" PostId="2723" Score="0" Text="@FuzzySquid More trying to get at &quot;what she means&quot;, in terms of the significations of her identity and actions." CreationDate="2019-08-22T17:16:19.540" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="15962" PostId="2723" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou I'll second the other user. I'm not sure still what that means. These are characters in an epic. They don't &quot;mean&quot; anything in particular. They have roles and functions, but not everything is supposed to be allegorical." CreationDate="2022-05-16T12:50:30.653" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="7883" PostId="2728" Score="0" Text="A very considerable part of the reason she is thus characterized is simply that the collocation γλαυκῶπις Άθήνη conforms to metrical requirements for the last two and a half feet of the dactylic hexameter line." CreationDate="2017-07-19T21:44:40.443" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14066" PostId="2728" Score="1" Text="For more info on the translation, Guy Duetscher's book &quot;Through The Language Glass&quot; talks about the difference of perception of color culturally, giving examples of problems in translations from Ancient Greek" CreationDate="2020-12-15T08:10:42.277" UserId="116" />
  <row Id="7855" PostId="2729" Score="0" Text="Related (on Christianity Stack Exchange): [What is the origin of the belief that Satan tortures the unsaved in Hell?](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/44106/what-is-the-origin-of-the-belief-that-satan-tortures-the-unsaved-in-hell)" CreationDate="2017-07-17T20:16:09.830" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11549" PostId="2729" Score="0" Text="It is easier to answer this from the Jewish point of view." CreationDate="2019-05-03T14:49:38.477" UserDisplayName="user4855" />
  <row Id="7830" PostId="2730" Score="0" Text="So why would gray be equivalent to see-in-the-dark/perceptive?" CreationDate="2017-07-14T15:35:02.023" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7831" PostId="2730" Score="2" Text="@bleh perhaps it is the idea that the mean of darkness (black) and light (white) is grey.  Balance was definitely an important concept to influential, early Greek philosophers such as Epicurus and Protagoras.&#xA; [See σωφροσύνη/sophrosunē: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=swfrosu%2Fnh&amp;la=greek&amp;can=swfrosu%2Fnh0&amp;prior=au)toswfrosu/nh]" CreationDate="2017-07-14T17:31:15.527" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7832" PostId="2730" Score="2" Text="@bleh I don't think it is. There are numerous valid translations of γλαυκῶπις, my opinion here is that the symbolism is hidden in the association with owls, not in the color. I think what Homer intented was to tell us Athena was &quot;owl eyed&quot;, not gray, or blue, or green eyed. Interestingly the homeric epithet for Hera is similar - cow eyed." CreationDate="2017-07-14T19:07:52.603" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7852" PostId="2730" Score="1" Text="Found this interesting link re: Athena as gray in Hegel on Stack Philosophy: &quot;[When philosophy paints its gray on gray, then has a form of life grown old, and with gray on gray it cannot be rejuvenated, but only known; the Owl of Minerva first takes flight with twilight closing in.&quot;](https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/q/43590/25828)" CreationDate="2017-07-17T19:26:51.563" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8241" PostId="2730" Score="1" Text="Found this link.  Not a reliable source, but interesting nonetheless: ['One of her epithets (titles) is &quot;gray-eyed.&quot; Her gift to the Greeks was the useful olive tree. The underside of the olive tree's leaf is gray, and when the wind lifts the leaves, it shows Athena's many &quot;eyes&quot;.'](https://www.tripsavvy.com/facts-about-greek-goddess-athena-1524422)." CreationDate="2017-09-01T17:56:02.963" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14761" PostId="2730" Score="0" Text="Owls were very common in Athens, and thus associated with her." CreationDate="2021-12-10T00:24:38.137" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="7835" PostId="2733" Score="0" Text="I'm pretty sure it's just a fortune favors the bold thing." CreationDate="2017-07-14T21:00:25.863" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7836" PostId="2733" Score="0" Text="@bleh I think there is much more to Diomedes than just boldness." CreationDate="2017-07-14T21:03:11.060" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7837" PostId="2733" Score="0" Text="Probably. That's why you asked this question i suppose :P" CreationDate="2017-07-14T21:04:59.450" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7838" PostId="2733" Score="0" Text="@bleh I have some ideas on the subject, but it's been a while since I've studied the epics (as opposed to the dramas) and I'm interested in what others think." CreationDate="2017-07-14T21:20:27.420" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7843" PostId="2733" Score="1" Text="I think you're exaggerating the differences between the three heroes. Achilles wasn't invulnerable in the Iliad, that's a much later addition to the myth. And although Diomedes wasn't a demigod, he always had Athena by his side. As for Ajax, great size may offer strength and range, but at the same time it deprives a warrior of speed and stealth." CreationDate="2017-07-16T14:12:33.427" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7845" PostId="2733" Score="0" Text="@yannis There is at least one reference in the Iliad to weapons not piercing Achilles skin: [&quot;but the spear-point passed above him and fixed itself in the earth, fain to glut itself with flesh.&quot;](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/2102/2892).  The question I might ask you is why was Athena such a staunch benefactor of Diomedes?  Could it have something to do with the meaning of his name?" CreationDate="2017-07-16T21:37:45.577" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7849" PostId="2733" Score="0" Text="Eh, that's a bit of a stretch, isn't it? The spear could have just missed its target or was reflected from Achilles (divine) armour. Now, don't get me wrong, I agree with you that Diomedes is the more impressive of the three, and I find the question fascinating. I just think it's more a matter of character than one of prowess." CreationDate="2017-07-17T08:58:35.830" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7850" PostId="2733" Score="0" Text="@yannis regardless of Achilles powers, whether his nigh invulnerability is due to armor, he's still a demi-god.  I like where you're leading with the character aspect, though.  It's been a while since I last read the Iliad, but Diomedes was always my favorite Greek fighter, so I'm wondering if there are details I've forgotten (or never picked up in the first place.)" CreationDate="2017-07-17T18:11:20.357" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7888" PostId="2733" Score="0" Text="Why put Diomedes in a class with Achilles and Telamonian Ajax but then exclude Agamemnon, Odysseus, and Patroclus from that same class? Each has at least one *aristeia,* that is, one episode of divinely inspired supremacy as a fighter, within the *Iliad.* (&quot;Ultimate warrior,&quot; though, smacks rather too much of a comic-book mind-set.)" CreationDate="2017-07-19T22:45:11.803" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="7839" PostId="2734" Score="1" Text="Well, Hades doesn't seem like the most logical destination to me.  Why would fallen angels, agents of evil, punish evil-doers?  I could understand if fallen angels were the initial inhabitants made to suffer in that place, and then humans came later and suffered alongside the fallen angels.  But the Christian view is different from that." CreationDate="2017-07-14T21:39:51.200" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="7840" PostId="2734" Score="1" Text="By the way, the Greek underworld wasn't necessarily a depressing place; look at Socrates' description of it in the Apology: &quot;If indeed when the pilgrim arrives in the world below, he is delivered from the professors of justice in this world, and finds the true judges who are said to give judgment there, Minos and Rhadamanthus and Aeacus and Triptolemus, and other sons of God who were righteous in their own life, that pilgrimage will be worth making. What would not a man give if he might converse with Orpheus and Musaeus and Hesiod and Homer? Nay, if this be true, let me die again and again.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-07-14T21:45:06.760" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="7841" PostId="2734" Score="2" Text="None of the links you provided, so far as I can tell, discuss how the notion of the place of demons and the place of punishment being the same was developed." CreationDate="2017-07-15T03:11:19.940" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="7844" PostId="2734" Score="0" Text="Remember that Socrates' philosophical conception was distinct from the earlier mythological conception.  (See @KenGraham's excellent answer for info on the former, and Book XI of the Odyssey for the latter.  The original conception of the underworld was not a pleasant place, and part of it are only rendered so in the form of the Elysian Fields, which is related to the Christian conception of redemption and rebirth, but only for a chosen few." CreationDate="2017-07-16T21:28:16.107" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7851" PostId="2734" Score="1" Text="@KeshavSrinivasan I've updated the answer to clarify my point about the Greek conception of hell as a place of eternal punishment, and related it to Dante who looms larger than any other thinker in the popular (mythological) conception of the Christian hell." CreationDate="2017-07-17T19:16:22.050" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7856" PostId="2734" Score="0" Text="&quot;if you are going to have eternal punishment for mankind, beyond just wandering around in the darkness forever, it makes sense that you would have agents for delivering very specific tortures.&quot; Even in Hinduism you have beings who administer tortures in the Narakas.  But those beings, who are good guys administering justice, are different from demons, who are agents of evil.  So I'm wondering why how Christians came to believe that demons, who delight in doing evil, are in charge of administering punishment." CreationDate="2017-07-17T20:17:44.230" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="7857" PostId="2734" Score="0" Text="@KeshavSrinivasan I'd urge you to look more deeply into the &quot;demonization&quot; of nature spirits and pagan deities in the Christian context, which needs to compartmentalize these older forces which are anathema in the Abrahamic tradition.  I'd also look to ideas that even the demons are under the rule of the all-powerful Abrahamic deity--they may be cast out, but they are instruments of divine retribution in regard to sinners nonetheless." CreationDate="2017-07-17T20:26:37.043" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7858" PostId="2734" Score="0" Text="Do you men that they're under the rule of God in the sense that all beings are under the rule of God?  But what is their motivation for punishing evil-doers?  Wouldn't they be happy with evil-doers?" CreationDate="2017-07-17T20:30:10.890" UserId="14" />
  <row Id="7859" PostId="2734" Score="0" Text="@KeshavSrinivasan As degraded, depraved figures, Christian demons delight in tormenting mankind.  There are mythologies that extremely evil people can rise to the ranks of demons, but I'm unsure of the derivation (I suspect it is more of a modern idea.)  The demons may hate God for casting them out, but that doesn't take them outside of the power of God.  (This is, perhaps, similar to certain Hindu conceptions of the universe re: Brahma as ultimate reality/ cosmic universal or God?) A reference might be Judas' as a necessary component in the story of the Christ." CreationDate="2017-07-17T20:36:35.853" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7846" PostId="2735" Score="0" Text="Thanks for that answer. I should have realized Sobek and Krokodilopolis were connected." CreationDate="2017-07-17T00:38:00.793" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="7860" PostId="2735" Score="0" Text="No, fortunately the names, although altered slightly, tend to be essentially the same. There is an overlay of Christianity, especially in the Prose Edda, which was written by a Christian to instruct post-conversion poets in the old myths, but with the Egyptians it seems like there's the filter of a different culture as well. (Celtic religion can be like that, too.)" CreationDate="2017-07-17T22:49:18.057" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="7881" PostId="2736" Score="0" Text="I like this answer very much, per the Greek component, as Christianity is both a European and Abrahamic religion.  But I'm a little unclear on the Old Testament as a rich source for the mythology of hell.  Words like Gehenna and Sheol are mentioned, but emphasis on these ideas and terms seems a distinctly Christian interpretation.  I say this with the understanding that Judaism is not a monolith, evolved over the millennia, and that related concepts such as a place of purgation may exist in mystical conceptions.  But it is never emphasized, to my knowledge." CreationDate="2017-07-19T20:50:08.430" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8556" PostId="2736" Score="0" Text="Update: I was scanning SE:Mi Yodeya and the questions on the Jewish concept of Hell all relate that it comes from the oral tradition, *not* the Scriptures and is a subject of dispute in the Jewish community to this day.  There may be a connection to demons via the *Midrash*: [&quot;fathers would place their children in fires as offerings for the idol Molech, and the children's screams would reverberate from the fire&quot;](https://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/81240/15955)" CreationDate="2017-10-26T20:02:39.247" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7847" PostId="2739" Score="3" Text="Great question; had never before thought about that in this way." CreationDate="2017-07-17T02:28:06.497" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="8172" PostId="2741" Score="0" Text="Thanks! What does &quot;measuring tree&quot; mean in this context? Also does &quot;earth below&quot; mean the author was supposed to be high above, in the sky?" CreationDate="2017-08-28T20:57:29.843" UserId="3982" />
  <row Id="7854" PostId="2743" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Absolutely! But, as there was a recent question on the evolution of the Christian hell, I wanted to ask a question about the Norse influence." CreationDate="2017-07-17T20:00:50.227" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7861" PostId="2743" Score="0" Text="Being a Christian myself, you make me wonder too. Maybe I can find something on it." CreationDate="2017-07-17T23:12:08.950" UserId="3947" />
  <row Id="7898" PostId="2743" Score="0" Text="This question belongs on [english.sx](https://english.stackexchange.com)." CreationDate="2017-07-22T11:17:27.163" UserId="241" />
  <row Id="13609" PostId="2743" Score="0" Text="There is another related concept, expressed by the Hebrew [sheol](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol) and Greek [hades](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades), whose meaning the Norse [hel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(location)) faithfully renders." CreationDate="2020-06-09T13:32:18.407" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="7863" PostId="2744" Score="1" Text="almost forgot his shoes... :). i read the original novel in Classical Chinese, really interested to know who did the best eng translation. his boots: 脚蹬藕丝步云履 - **cloud walking boots** *made of lotus silk* (very fragile thread could be obtained by tearing apart the lotus root, amazing how this nano stuff could stand thumping as shoes :D" CreationDate="2017-07-18T15:12:39.500" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7893" PostId="2746" Score="0" Text="This is what I was looking for, but I think you should add a link to your relevant blog post for anyone looking for more information. It's a very interesting read." CreationDate="2017-07-20T18:54:25.913" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7894" PostId="2746" Score="0" Text="I wasn't sure about the etiquette of doing that. But my post on Dis Pater's Celtic correlates [can be found here](https://earthandstarryheaven.com/2015/05/06/dis-pater/)." CreationDate="2017-07-20T21:50:03.167" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="7865" PostId="2749" Score="4" Text="Related, on Christianity Stack Exchange: [What is the origin of the Devil's red pointy costume and pitchfork?](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/q/11468)" CreationDate="2017-07-18T18:42:31.790" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7866" PostId="2749" Score="0" Text="@yannis lot of good material over there.  Thanks for posting!" CreationDate="2017-07-18T18:48:09.167" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7869" PostId="2749" Score="2" Text="Moses has horns because of a mistranslation of a line of Hebrew, though." CreationDate="2017-07-19T09:39:32.837" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="7873" PostId="2749" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum Haha, yeah, but the idea has persisted into modern times, and there is an association of Judas as the (albeit necessary) betrayer of the Christ." CreationDate="2017-07-19T14:46:39.323" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="12094" PostId="2749" Score="1" Text="See [Parable of the Sheep and the Goats](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sheep_and_the_Goats)." CreationDate="2019-12-04T06:42:13.990" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="7885" PostId="2750" Score="1" Text="I would add that Diomedes survives to bear eloquent witness to the stupidity and futility of war, as does Odysseus if only by his weeping at Demodocus's songs, and Achilles in the underworld (in *Odyssey* 11). When (in the *Aeneid)* the Latins seek Diomedes' military support against the Trojans, he refuses them, having warred against Troy more than enough for any lifetime. He is also the Other Guy in the love-tragedy of Troilus and Cressida, as developed by Boccaccio, Chaucer, and Shakespeare." CreationDate="2017-07-19T22:05:51.667" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="7871" PostId="2753" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Please do! The 1985 Google Books version I extracted the quote from didn't have any notes on the bull-calf myth." CreationDate="2017-07-19T10:18:51.430" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7877" PostId="2754" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I appreciate the commentary. *(Your point is a reason I omitted this from my Greek answer, and only proposed it an an independent answer.)* I was kind of hoping you were going to weigh in on this question with an answer of your own, since you bring an additional perspective!" CreationDate="2017-07-19T19:53:15.700" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7878" PostId="2754" Score="0" Text="@Gibet PS Baal was certainly remembered though: https://www.lds.org/manual/old-testament-stories/chapter-34-elijah-and-the-priests-of-baal?lang=eng" CreationDate="2017-07-19T19:54:51.837" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7880" PostId="2754" Score="0" Text="@Gibet except in that he does not mention the rich sources of information on hell and demons in the Old Testament. My argument would be that the emphasis on hell is a Christian interpretation of Judaism, and vastly overstates the influence and importance of the idea in Jewish thought, where it is notably absent. To his credit he does acknowledge that the Christian conception of hell &quot;was also influenced a number of ancient civilizations, including those of Mesopotamia, India, Egypt and Greece, held as part of their mythology the concept of an underworld as the realm of the dead.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-07-19T20:38:38.363" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8240" PostId="2756" Score="1" Text="You make a really good point about how the scholarship can change as the science of etymology continues to progress.  (Science notwithstanding, associations made by later poets and translators still dominate in the literary sphere.  In some sense, this was an impetus for the question.)  Very useful answer!" CreationDate="2017-09-01T17:46:42.793" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7892" PostId="2760" Score="0" Text="Please do not copy paste without giving credit to the original owner" CreationDate="2017-07-20T15:38:02.607" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8505" PostId="2760" Score="0" Text="The interpretation and translation is based on Wiesław Bator’s, scholarly work Religion of Ancient Egypt: The rest is my own research." CreationDate="2017-10-18T17:41:30.467" UserId="3373" />
  <row Id="8468" PostId="2761" Score="0" Text="Freyja seems to be most close to Inanna, I don't see parallel between Hel and Inanna." CreationDate="2017-10-13T07:35:12.743" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="8470" PostId="2761" Score="0" Text="@rus9384 Absolutely.  Freyja/Inanna are associated with beauty, love, fertility and war, but also with death.  Here I'm trying to explore the underworld counterparts of these heavenly aspects of the goddess." CreationDate="2017-10-13T16:54:05.320" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7896" PostId="2762" Score="0" Text="Considering that it seems more a group of creatures rather than one distinct horse, an &quot;in-myth&quot; explanation of its looks seems unlikely. I'm fairly certain that the three legs is a sign of just how close to,  without actually crossing the line to become totally improbable as a living being it is." CreationDate="2017-07-22T08:09:13.970" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7897" PostId="2762" Score="1" Text="@andejons Apparently the legend relates to horse sacrifice, helhest were normal horses risen from the grave. I was hoping for a story that comments on this process of transformation and perhaps explains why they are missing a leg. That said, it's folklore, I am not highly optimistic on an &quot;in-myth&quot; explanation as you say. My own opinion is that the missing leg serves to radiate a feeling of incompleteness." CreationDate="2017-07-22T11:07:32.450" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="7899" PostId="2762" Score="0" Text="I also wonder if there's a connection with Sleipnir, given that both are horses with an abnormal number of legs that can travel to Hel." CreationDate="2017-07-22T11:23:21.540" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10605" PostId="2762" Score="0" Text="From this book it looks unlikely that the horse belonged to Hel. https://books.google.com/books?id=-97MBgAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA12&amp;lpg=PA12&amp;dq=helhest+norse&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=53rXkcqxKN&amp;sig=soCaqG6I5rkQUFNLIntlqydhHgk&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=2ahUKEwjBkL-azYHbAhUBNKwKHdNRBmcQ6AEwEnoECAIQAQ#v=onepage&amp;q=helhest&amp;f=false" CreationDate="2018-05-13T02:13:48.383" UserId="4962" />
  <row Id="7902" PostId="2764" Score="0" Text="Are you asking about dragons in general, from absolutely any mythology, or exclusively from Germanic lore?" CreationDate="2017-07-23T22:19:57.927" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7903" PostId="2764" Score="0" Text="I meant European dragons as based on the &quot;worms&quot; of Germanic lore." CreationDate="2017-07-24T07:30:23.400" UserId="4001" />
  <row Id="7922" PostId="2768" Score="1" Text="I usually go by [this one](http://www.germanicmythology.com/works/IMAGES5/Daulaire9worlds.jpg) *(which may not be considered the most authentic, but is certainly quite well known;)*  Great question, and welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-07-27T20:00:15.310" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7919" PostId="2769" Score="0" Text="While shocking, that is very neat. I did not think of the possibility that the illustration might be the source of most of the details. Thanks for the info!" CreationDate="2017-07-27T14:19:13.620" UserId="3996" />
  <row Id="7920" PostId="2769" Score="0" Text="@FreakinRocket The illustration is not the source of most of the details, but the text it illustrates is." CreationDate="2017-07-27T14:26:17.557" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7921" PostId="2769" Score="0" Text="oh right. Sorry, I misread your response. Thanks for the clarification!" CreationDate="2017-07-27T14:47:33.257" UserId="3996" />
  <row Id="7924" PostId="2770" Score="0" Text="@Gibet + Duke have u considered if there is relationship between Mushussu and [Qilin](http://www.baike.com/wiki/麒麟)? Qilin is one of the 9 offsprings of dragon, according to Chinese myth." CreationDate="2017-07-28T13:13:56.943" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7938" PostId="2770" Score="0" Text="Which one the ancestor an archeological's burden, my interest is in understanding the human mind/psyche." CreationDate="2017-07-30T12:47:55.760" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="8101" PostId="2770" Score="0" Text="I accepted this as an answer, because it became closest and provided facts." CreationDate="2017-08-22T09:05:48.803" UserId="4001" />
  <row Id="7926" PostId="2771" Score="8" Text="It's pretty much entirely up to you. Who's to say you have to stick to mythical creatures previously established? (Or their properties for that matter)" CreationDate="2017-07-26T21:35:31.110" UserDisplayName="Hyfnae" />
  <row Id="7927" PostId="2771" Score="0" Text="I understand that but i would like to root it in some type of foundation, to which i do not want to use the Celtic Dagda Diety." CreationDate="2017-07-26T21:44:16.287" UserDisplayName="Anthony Gregory" />
  <row Id="7930" PostId="2771" Score="3" Text="Do leprechauns actually have significant powers?  Or is their reaction to having their gold taken exactly the same as if you'd robbed a human?" CreationDate="2017-07-27T05:11:34.277" UserDisplayName="jamesqf" />
  <row Id="7931" PostId="2771" Score="0" Text="You're having trouble finding info on Leprechauns? Have you not tried google? Tv Tropes has a short explaination, and nearly every fictional instance where they have appeared in modern stuff: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Leprechaun" CreationDate="2017-07-28T06:15:55.110" UserDisplayName="Erin Thursby" />
  <row Id="7932" PostId="2771" Score="0" Text="Slate has an interesting article on where they have appeared. Second paragraph talks about what they have been like in lore: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/explainer/2012/03/leprechauns_cultural_history_did_they_start_out_scary_or_cute_.html" CreationDate="2017-07-28T06:17:27.470" UserDisplayName="Erin Thursby" />
  <row Id="7933" PostId="2771" Score="0" Text="Live Science also talks about them and includes a medical condition that shares the name: https://www.livescience.com/37626-leprechauns.html" CreationDate="2017-07-28T06:18:56.303" UserDisplayName="Erin Thursby" />
  <row Id="7934" PostId="2771" Score="0" Text="Mental Floss has 15 things you might not know about them: http://mentalfloss.com/article/62173/15-lucky-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-leprechauns" CreationDate="2017-07-28T06:21:02.373" UserDisplayName="Erin Thursby" />
  <row Id="7935" PostId="2771" Score="0" Text="Their magic is derived from the magic of the fae. And like most mythical creatures, the stories about them vary from place to place and myth to myth. They can wear red instead of green. They all seem to be male. One question here on the exchange takes it to a very strange place...https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/35223/on-the-origins-of-leprechauns" CreationDate="2017-07-28T06:30:17.913" UserDisplayName="Erin Thursby" />
  <row Id="7936" PostId="2772" Score="0" Text="Wow, amazing link between leprechauns, the philosopher's stone, Aristotle and space. +1" CreationDate="2017-07-26T23:09:50.733" UserDisplayName="HyperdriveMacGee" />
  <row Id="7937" PostId="2773" Score="0" Text="Nice point about locational dependency.  See also: [Tutelary Deities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutelary_deity)." CreationDate="2017-07-29T20:48:45.460" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7939" PostId="2776" Score="0" Text="Great! Thanks, but still one question remains. Would they write the word(memory) and the name(Muninn) the same way?" CreationDate="2017-07-30T16:48:39.303" UserId="4021" />
  <row Id="7940" PostId="2776" Score="0" Text="@Xhark I've tried to incorporate some material on that. That passage of your original question was rather unclear." CreationDate="2017-07-30T17:54:17.807" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="10503" PostId="2776" Score="0" Text="why ᚴ? How to differentiate the sounds k and g?" CreationDate="2018-04-29T10:51:54.470" UserId="4021" />
  <row Id="10504" PostId="2776" Score="0" Text="@Xhark The younger futhark used the same rune for g and k, which is not so strange as their pronounciation is close. It is a part of the interpretation of any runic text to try to see which of the modern letters would be the best transcription." CreationDate="2018-04-29T12:23:11.030" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7943" PostId="2777" Score="0" Text="Since when was Khronos *not* the god of time? I've learned this all wrong" CreationDate="2017-07-30T23:22:13.290" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7944" PostId="2777" Score="0" Text="@bleh I tend to think of Chronus as the personification of time, rather than the deity of it—like how Eros is the personification of love, but Aphrodite has dominion over it." CreationDate="2017-07-30T23:44:45.397" UserId="4022" />
  <row Id="7945" PostId="2777" Score="0" Text="@Draconis Ah. I always equated Eros as the god of love, and Aphrodite as the goddess of making stuff fall in love, and so in that logic, Khronos would be the god of time" CreationDate="2017-07-30T23:48:51.967" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7946" PostId="2778" Score="0" Text="I don't think any of those are associated with the *passing* of time, merely associated" CreationDate="2017-07-30T23:51:56.140" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7947" PostId="2778" Score="0" Text="@bleh I'd have to disagree - look at, for example, Vertumnus - god of seasons and *change*, as in the passing of those seasons. Ditto for the Horae. Anna Perenna - the passing of the year. (A few examples from my list.)" CreationDate="2017-07-30T23:57:27.043" UserId="4023" />
  <row Id="7948" PostId="2778" Score="0" Text="I suppose. Did not read most of them, sorry. Can you edit out the ones that are about passing time?" CreationDate="2017-07-31T00:00:55.520" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7949" PostId="2778" Score="0" Text="@bleh I must have misunderstood some of the words cited as acceptable - I thought gods/goddesses related to fate were alright. I'll remove those." CreationDate="2017-07-31T00:02:50.777" UserId="4023" />
  <row Id="7952" PostId="2782" Score="1" Text="How are you defining &quot;related&quot; in this question? There may well be ancient places that are linked in legend to various Norse gods, is that what you mean? Or do you want something more tangible?" CreationDate="2017-07-30T08:58:42.387" UserDisplayName="KillingTime" />
  <row Id="7953" PostId="2782" Score="0" Text="I'm looking for a famous name. It could be a place or a hal, or just a famous chest gurder by or important for all or some of the gods" CreationDate="2017-07-30T09:48:27.247" UserId="4021" />
  <row Id="7955" PostId="2783" Score="1" Text="Many more listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mythological_objects" CreationDate="2017-07-30T10:22:31.353" UserDisplayName="Denis de Bernardy" />
  <row Id="7956" PostId="2784" Score="0" Text="I'm looking for famous treasures,chests or accumulations of precious objects of some kind in the Norse mythology. Maybe referenced somehow in the odas or so. I'm actually quiet clueless." CreationDate="2017-07-30T20:26:01.703" UserId="4021" />
  <row Id="7957" PostId="2784" Score="2" Text="@Xhark When you say &quot;Norse mythology&quot;, do you mean the actual legends about the Norse gods or do you mean rather the Norse _sagas_?" CreationDate="2017-07-30T23:30:41.523" UserDisplayName="sempaiscuba" />
  <row Id="7958" PostId="2784" Score="0" Text="Both? Any? I dont know. Im quite clueless here" CreationDate="2017-07-31T07:37:16.570" UserId="4021" />
  <row Id="7964" PostId="2785" Score="1" Text="rather a board question questing &quot;sources&quot;, yet *river* is always a pictograph of time. according to [wikipedia of Styx](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styx), time is the reason for death + limitation: *Styx... Zeus declared that every oath must be sworn upon her. Zeus swore to give Semele whatever she wanted and was then obliged to follow through when he realized to his horror that her request would lead to her death. Helios similarly promised his son Phaëton whatever he desired, also resulting in the boy's death.*" CreationDate="2017-08-01T03:05:50.923" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7960" PostId="2787" Score="1" Text="Isn't this just something like the birth of Jesus is so magnificent that even animals will bow down to him?" CreationDate="2017-07-31T19:51:18.100" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7961" PostId="2787" Score="0" Text="@bleh the Hardy poem is rather more complex than that--I've been pondering it for several days now, and it seems to be more of a comment on the nature of hope, which goes back to Hesiod." CreationDate="2017-07-31T20:09:35.517" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7962" PostId="2787" Score="1" Text="This is something of interest: the first Hebrew letter aleph used to be a pictograph of an ox. Being that aleph is the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet and the poem may refer to the beginning of Jesus' life on Earth, there may be something to this. Also Jesus is called &quot;the beginning and the end.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-07-31T20:20:08.393" UserId="3947" />
  <row Id="7963" PostId="2787" Score="0" Text="would that have something to do with Taurus and Ares in Astrology?" CreationDate="2017-08-01T02:58:16.437" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7966" PostId="2787" Score="0" Text="@Mishu米殊 I wouldn't look to contemporary astrology because it tends not to be well sourced, and much of it is invented, but in terms of astrological ideas that originate from Hermeticism and the mythological canons, it's possible there are links." CreationDate="2017-08-01T17:32:24.213" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7976" PostId="2787" Score="1" Text="Ok. i recall the ancient sacrifice used to use ox/bull in ritual ceremony. it developed to use lamb, what i recalled the earliest record is Abraham used to replace Issac. there is also the progressing from one astrological cycle to another every 26000 years (?). Abraham's time was from Taurus to Ares, people worshiped the golden bull. Jesus from Ares to Pisces, now is from Pisces to Aquarius. so every one new era begins it symbolized by sacrifice the old. therefore instead of killing the ox, Hardy made it kneeling?" CreationDate="2017-08-02T05:26:29.960" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7979" PostId="2787" Score="0" Text="@Mishu米殊 I was thinking about the Golden Bull the Hebrews worshiped after the exodus from Egypt. [Hardy's religious views seem to be quite progressive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hardy#Religious_beliefs), particularly for his time." CreationDate="2017-08-02T21:37:12.353" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8034" PostId="2789" Score="0" Text="You are wrong on B. Neither centaurs, satyrs, or gorgons are gods. Most of the Grecoroman gods usually have human form, both their bodies and heads, although some times they shapeshift and take animal forms." CreationDate="2017-08-09T22:47:14.343" UserId="3351" />
  <row Id="7988" PostId="2792" Score="0" Text="nice nice! i don't know that history part, thanks :). so the sphinx is really the only man-faced hybrid? it's odd then. i think i'm legitimate to suspect the sphinx was imported, not originally Egypt, esp. there are no mythical story about him, or it's place in the pantheon. i tend to reason that the Egyptian religion was closer to shamanism or witchcraft so they embraced the animal instinct instead of intellect. also these animal faces were easily adopted when the priests preforming rituals they could wear the masks..." CreationDate="2017-08-03T06:09:20.500" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="7980" PostId="2794" Score="0" Text="Thanks, that was great. So how would you write it? ᛋᛅᛦᚱᚦᚬ? I'm not sure about the A and J sounds." CreationDate="2017-08-02T21:40:09.697" UserId="4021" />
  <row Id="7990" PostId="2794" Score="0" Text="&quot;ᛋᛒᚢᚱᛁᛅ&quot;. Your attempt seems to transliterate to &quot;saR rthą&quot;, which is nonsense. The ᛦ rune is only ever placed at the end of a word, so it has to be two words written together." CreationDate="2017-08-03T07:58:07.220" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="7991" PostId="2794" Score="0" Text="So? What should be the correct way then?" CreationDate="2017-08-03T07:59:15.167" UserId="4021" />
  <row Id="8062" PostId="2794" Score="0" Text="Compare Icelandic &quot;spyr&quot;  (v. ask) and &quot;spurning&quot; (n. question)." CreationDate="2017-08-12T21:40:29.020" UserId="899" />
  <row Id="7977" PostId="2795" Score="1" Text="Egyptian mythology is not my area of focus, but I think this is a very good question.  Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-08-02T17:48:32.747" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="7999" PostId="2797" Score="0" Text="Great answer!  This led me to look up [Darnell, and what I found was quite impressive.](http://yale.academia.edu/JohnColemanDarnell)" CreationDate="2017-08-04T20:10:14.060" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8000" PostId="2797" Score="0" Text="Could you explain &quot;astralistic bionic statues&quot;? I tried finding a definition of astralistic in this context, but didn't find anything helpful." CreationDate="2017-08-04T20:14:35.240" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8008" PostId="2797" Score="0" Text="In Greece all statues and figures of Gods, in accord with Egyptian tradition were not only the representations of Gods but living magickal tokens, astralistic talismans and statues consecrated to Deities were supposed to capture their attributes as in sympathetic magic. Through the depiction of a given Deity, or portraying its masks, one achieved a bionic statue. Or a living statue of a Deity that in ceremonies interacted with the priesthood. Not in the real &quot;physical&quot; sense as in moving marble, but in a certain communion that the priest or priestess entered with the given Deity;" CreationDate="2017-08-06T01:17:05.380" UserId="3373" />
  <row Id="8010" PostId="2797" Score="0" Text="The Greek World edited by Anton Powell contains a chapter on Bionic Statues: Chapter 20 by Nigel Spivey. It is interesting from the perspective of Early Hellenic Mysteries. Orphism supposedly had Egyptian roots and was introduced by one Egyptian Tyrant into the &quot;Greek World&quot;, from which Eleusinian, Herculean and Dionisian rites sprang. Early Hellenism might be under influences of the Egyptian religion and mystery schools, therefore it is likely that the way to construct bionic statues was conveyed, and later developed into finest of Greek sculptures." CreationDate="2017-08-06T01:20:23.387" UserId="3373" />
  <row Id="7984" PostId="2798" Score="1" Text="Holy cheese, this is such an in depth answer to such a simple answer question" CreationDate="2017-08-03T00:13:21.353" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7989" PostId="2798" Score="0" Text=":D Holy cheese! Haha! Ah... But the Question, though concise, is quite [potentially] multilayered, non? (+ with the link to which it points...)" CreationDate="2017-08-03T06:53:53.297" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="7998" PostId="2799" Score="0" Text="Welcome to AI!  This is a very interesting question that I'm going to have to think about before attempting to answer.  Re: the excellent metope link, it certainly creates a contradiction with the conception of Atlas as mountainous in size, holding up the sky.  (My suspicion is the image is not meant to be literal, and depicting the scale accurately is not compositionally feasible in that context.) The idea of great size may derive from what certain titans represent. It's difficult to think of [Oceanus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanus#Mythological_account) as anything but immense." CreationDate="2017-08-04T20:03:37.757" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8009" PostId="2799" Score="0" Text="Crossed wires--I meant to be welcoming you to Mythology! *(although I am finding an increasing number of ideas and applications in algorithmic intelligence that seem to derive from Greek mythology and philosophy;)*" CreationDate="2017-08-06T01:19:23.790" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16456" PostId="2799" Score="0" Text="I recently examined the red-figure holdings of the Antikensammlungen in Berlin. There were several labeled as gigantomachies, but not one showed any difference in combatant size between the two sides. Only one piece there, out of all the red-figure ware I have seen in the world's museums, shows human figures at widely contrasting scales within one scene; and in that case, the [&quot;foundry cup&quot;](https://d2e1bqvws99ptg.cloudfront.net/user_image_upload/2493/insert-fig-1-foundry-painter-974372_4000x4000.jpg), the larger figure is a larger-than-life bronze statue that the smaller ones are working on." CreationDate="2023-08-27T16:26:41.970" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="7992" PostId="2800" Score="0" Text="I think this is better on history" CreationDate="2017-08-04T01:25:03.877" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="7993" PostId="2800" Score="1" Text="@bleh - See the [help center](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic), note that &quot;Historical or societal context of a myth&quot; is *explicitly on-topic*." CreationDate="2017-08-04T15:07:14.383" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="7995" PostId="2800" Score="0" Text="That's a myth, but this is how the vikings viewed a mythology." CreationDate="2017-08-04T19:34:05.137" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8004" PostId="2803" Score="0" Text="In that Theoi.com page to which you link, I do not seem to find what you suggest I should. Gigantic stature for the Titans seems there to be connected with some Thracian tradition, but without citations to ancient sources." CreationDate="2017-08-05T23:19:12.223" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8007" PostId="2803" Score="2" Text="Theoi.com quotes Pseudo-Hyginus, Pseudo-Apollodorus, Lycophron and Quintus Smyrnaeus as conflating the Giants and Titans. It also mentions how Koios and Krios were sometimes said to be leaders of the Giants against Zeus, when they were really the ones who ganged up on Kronos. (I have edited my comment above because not all of the writers quoted were Romans.) I wasn't aware of the Thracian tradition, which is interesting." CreationDate="2017-08-06T00:25:50.833" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8013" PostId="2803" Score="0" Text="My apologies. I was thinking of the conflation/confusion as the default explanation and was primarily interested in any alternatives the community might offer, but of course your answer sticks with the conflation theme." CreationDate="2017-08-06T14:39:11.597" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8015" PostId="2803" Score="1" Text="OK, I see what you were asking now. For what it's worth, I would suggest that since both groups fought against the gods ([Titanomachy](https://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/Titanomachy/titanomachy.html) and the [Gigantomachy](https://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/Gigantomachy/gigantomachy.html)) and there seems to be a certain fuzziness about the subject anyway (@DukeZhou) it's not surprising that the two were confused. Also, the Titans were fairly obscure deties anyway, with little or no cult to perpetuate their myths." CreationDate="2017-08-06T18:06:29.940" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8016" PostId="2805" Score="0" Text="Why the downvotes?" CreationDate="2017-08-07T17:24:53.757" UserId="4047" />
  <row Id="8019" PostId="2805" Score="2" Text="Probably seen as too opinion based.  Nevertheless, I think it's a useful question.  Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-08-07T22:02:01.277" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8029" PostId="2805" Score="0" Text="Even though I admire and respect DukeZhou answer, I learned that myths are told and retold, so they must be diverse in form. You may have good books encompassing some of the existing versions, but I think that &quot;authoritative&quot; may not be the best choice of word." CreationDate="2017-08-09T09:52:11.630" UserId="2826" />
  <row Id="8041" PostId="2805" Score="1" Text="@Rodrigo That's a fair point on &quot;authoritative&quot;, but I suspect most would regard the OCD in that light.  *(I actually listed it first for that reason, even though I rarely consult it myself;)" CreationDate="2017-08-10T21:22:32.800" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8054" PostId="2805" Score="0" Text="It's a fair question, but answers are going to be subjective. Unlike say, reddit's mythology section, we don't have a resources list. (That I know of, anyway.) Actually, this question and ones like it get asked on reddit quite a bit." CreationDate="2017-08-11T20:54:46.733" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8014" PostId="2806" Score="0" Text="Thanks. I would note, however, that superhuman stature was not imputed to Samson when he held, and by superhuman strength dislodged, the pillars holding up the huge temple of Dagon in Judges. And as for Atlas' knowing the depths of the sea, his standing on the sea bed seems less likely as the basis of his knowledge than the mere fact of his divinity. Homeric divinities, while not omniscient, seem often to know things simply by virtue of their divinity rather than upon any empirical basis." CreationDate="2017-08-06T14:48:58.097" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8024" PostId="2806" Score="0" Text="I think Samson is not a good parallel in that the Titans were primal forces, often representing natural phenomena.  Atlas isn't really an aqueous deity, so divine knowledge of the seas seems a pretty shaky attribution of powers with no basis for support.  I recognize I'm just some guy on the internet, and lack academic credibility, but I had very good teachers who devoted their lives to serious study of these subjects.  I'd recommend discussing it with some scholars in your Classics department as your thesis is controversial and needs more support." CreationDate="2017-08-08T20:43:29.083" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8025" PostId="2807" Score="0" Text="Exactly the kind of answer I was hoping for! Thanks!" CreationDate="2017-08-08T23:00:04.800" UserId="4047" />
  <row Id="8043" PostId="2807" Score="0" Text="@SanDiago I added links to the compendiums of both Ovid and Apollodorus that you can read online in English and the original." CreationDate="2017-08-10T21:43:03.497" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8045" PostId="2809" Score="1" Text="Outside of mythology, see also https://scifi.stackexchange.com/q/27772/4918 &quot;In the potterverse, how do giants procreate with humans?&quot;" CreationDate="2017-08-11T15:11:21.647" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8048" PostId="2809" Score="0" Text="@b_jonas lol. If this is a subject you have any interest in, I'd highly suggest Gene Wolfe's [The Wizard Knight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wizard_Knight).  He gets into the subject of human/giant intimate relations in some detail.  *Quite salty!*" CreationDate="2017-08-11T15:53:57.663" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8050" PostId="2809" Score="0" Text="My answer there should make it clear that I'm not interested to know the intimate details. I know just enough to be almost sure such a sexual relationship is possible. (Whether they can procreate this way is a different matter.)" CreationDate="2017-08-11T20:41:30.577" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8051" PostId="2809" Score="0" Text="@b_jonas Wolfe is always worth reading in any case, and that subject constitutes only an aside in a very cool story that involves an excellent take on the division of the universe into connected world/realms, such as in the Norse mythology.  *([Surt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surtr) also make an appearance;)*" CreationDate="2017-08-11T20:47:13.173" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8023" PostId="2810" Score="0" Text="Thanks for posting!  I have no doubt that Christianity is a product of the *Hellenized* Levant, and Jewish thought at the time surrounding the changing of the eras would have been influenced by Greek philosophy.  In the same way, its pretty the new religion was influence by Greek religion.  But it was a stretch for me to try to find Norse origin in that we don't really have documentation of that mythology until about 1000 years later." CreationDate="2017-08-08T18:23:59.627" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8046" PostId="2811" Score="0" Text="See also https://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/825/197 &quot;Who invented writing, or who taught writing to the mortals, according to Greek myths?&quot;" CreationDate="2017-08-11T15:16:57.237" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8047" PostId="2811" Score="0" Text="Even if no god was originally worshipped as a librarian, there could be one reinterpreted as one in modern times, just like how Vulcanus (the Roman mythology equivalent of Hēphaistos) is considered the patron of steam locomotives." CreationDate="2017-08-11T15:22:39.167" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8073" PostId="2816" Score="0" Text="If you are looking for an internet source, then [theoi](http://theoi.com) serves as a good reference." CreationDate="2017-08-14T02:14:14.007" UserDisplayName="user647" />
  <row Id="8032" PostId="2817" Score="0" Text="Welcome to Mythology!  You're probably going to want to include some textual references to get some upvotes.  Analysis is definitely welcome though.  Discussion on the meaning and ramifications of the story have certainly been a subject of much debate over the millennia." CreationDate="2017-08-09T21:14:09.243" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8114" PostId="2817" Score="0" Text="Thx. but i think by reading the Biblical text it shouldn't imply that the Tree of Knowledge fruit poisonous, only they were cut off from accessing the Tree of Life so they would die. They didn't die immediately after eating the ToK fruit anywhere, so YWHW was lying?" CreationDate="2017-08-24T09:20:17.363" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="8031" PostId="2818" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I thought I made that point that it is not strictly forbidden, only that access is blocked.  Possibly I should amend the answer to be more clear about when I am talking about the Tree of Life vs. The Tree of Knowledge?" CreationDate="2017-08-09T21:10:06.757" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8112" PostId="2818" Score="0" Text="Duke and @Gibet well this left two ponders: 1) If they ate the Tree of Life first then ToK, it would be perfect - why the Snake didn't tell them this little trick?! 2) If they everyday eating ToL as breakfast, since they can't now access it, they will die :'(..." CreationDate="2017-08-24T09:11:13.657" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="8113" PostId="2818" Score="0" Text="@Gibet but isn't the Bible said, as quoted Duke, &quot;lest he stretch forth his hand and take also from the Tree of Life and eat and live forever&quot; - so ToL not needed to be consumed daily but only once will fix all?" CreationDate="2017-08-24T09:14:59.583" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="8222" PostId="2818" Score="0" Text="@Gibet thx the clarification ;]" CreationDate="2017-08-31T08:09:15.483" UserId="3960" />
  <row Id="8226" PostId="2818" Score="0" Text="@Mishu米殊 The main point I take from Gibet's critique is that there is, indeed, not a single form of the &quot;bible&quot;, and, like most canons, the various texts evolved over the years.  (For Old Testament material, I tend to *strongly favor* Jewish version, and used the linked for convenience;)" CreationDate="2017-08-31T17:57:55.320" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8035" PostId="2819" Score="0" Text="That's a good point; In this context he understood that writing is spoiling the sacred art of logoi, or sacred word. Looking at the trash all around (adverts, distractions, garbage the language is full of), it is hard not to agree with the consequences preditected even then. Garbage-semiotics enchantments. Word uttered unknown had magical potence, upon saying or writing, it loses its power - this is related to the beliefs of one African tribe. Perhaps he was not accusing the God Thoth, but rather the future abuse of written and spoken word that people committed. In silence one commands Truth." CreationDate="2017-08-10T04:17:26.757" UserId="3373" />
  <row Id="8042" PostId="2822" Score="0" Text="Great question!  I don't have time for a satisfactory answer, but I went ahead and provided lexical links for the terms, which you should find useful." CreationDate="2017-08-10T21:31:33.643" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8081" PostId="2822" Score="1" Text="Much better if you look at the unabridged version of Lewis/Short (with textual references): http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3DDis2 and here: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Orcus&amp;fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059" CreationDate="2017-08-16T14:44:41.417" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="8072" PostId="2823" Score="0" Text="This is undoubtedly the best. One can't argue with a god who has the title &quot;Mistress of the House of Books.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-08-13T21:12:36.050" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="8038" PostId="2826" Score="0" Text="This holds with my take on the matter--never in my reading have I come across this as issue, which leads me to believe it wasn't an issue for the original audience.  Thanks for contributing and welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-08-10T21:00:35.853" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10787" PostId="2826" Score="0" Text="In the story of Hadingus, his nanny [Hardgrepir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Har%C3%B0greipr) is a giant, who later becomes his lover. He objects that she's larger than him, but she tells him that she can [adjust her size](http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/saxo/saxo01.htm) to make things work: So that's one possibility..." CreationDate="2018-08-03T23:54:01.230" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8064" PostId="2828" Score="2" Text="Since this is a literary refernce, I'll just comment -- In Mark Twain's _[A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Connecticut_Yankee_in_King_Arthur's_Court)_, the main character uses an eclipse he knows about as an opportunity to get out of a sticky situation." CreationDate="2017-08-13T12:59:49.293" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8060" PostId="2832" Score="0" Text="Do you know how old the idea of the miners good luck charm is and also another source?  I like that one." CreationDate="2017-08-12T19:52:53.667" UserId="3302" />
  <row Id="8066" PostId="2834" Score="3" Text="My best guess would be that the gold refers to the riches Achilles got from fighting - he, as did the other fighters, got a share of the spoils from war. Achilles got a larger portion, both because of a fight between Agamemnon and himself, and because he was one of the best fighters. From there, gold was used because it fits both the rhythm better, and probably because it draws more attention to his ability - the song is about superheroes, not unfortunate ways to die." CreationDate="2017-08-13T13:51:37.500" UserId="4023" />
  <row Id="8087" PostId="2834" Score="1" Text="It would make more sense if the lyrics said Midas and his gold." CreationDate="2017-08-19T17:53:15.930" UserId="4085" />
  <row Id="10712" PostId="2834" Score="0" Text="Goodness, a gold badge already." CreationDate="2018-06-07T02:05:48.127" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="15783" PostId="2834" Score="0" Text="I want to post an answer to this three-year-old question, and I actually composed and edited a good one, but then I saw that the question is still &quot;Highly active&quot; and therefore unanswerable. Can someone dumb it down a bit, to make it less active so I can post my answer?!" CreationDate="2021-12-25T04:18:44.640" UserId="8851" />
  <row Id="15784" PostId="2834" Score="0" Text="@Metamorphic - Unfortunately, I cannot unprotect questions." CreationDate="2021-12-25T04:46:44.920" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="8068" PostId="2835" Score="0" Text="@Gibet - It's imperfect rhyme or near-rhyme. It's an old and popular poetic technique." CreationDate="2017-08-13T17:19:03.697" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="8075" PostId="2835" Score="0" Text="I have excised the only bit of my answer that has hitherto drawn comment--on both anti-snark and New Critical principles." CreationDate="2017-08-14T18:19:41.727" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8078" PostId="2835" Score="0" Text="Very insightful, relating Achilles' &quot;gold&quot; to his choice of &quot;undying fame&quot;.  I can't say whether this was Coldplay's intention, but it strikes me as the proper understanding." CreationDate="2017-08-14T21:57:34.423" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8079" PostId="2836" Score="1" Text="And of course runes originally developed their forms so that they could be carved into wood." CreationDate="2017-08-14T23:06:57.077" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8069" PostId="2837" Score="5" Text="Actually, the leader of Coldplay has a degree in Ancient World Studies, with an emphasis on Greek and Roman civilizations." CreationDate="2017-08-13T19:07:02.033" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="8071" PostId="2837" Score="0" Text="I think you took the question too literal. What the writer means with the song is irrelevant. It's about those four specific lines, and 'Achilles and his gold' in particular. Whatever he sang about Spiderman/Superman may be an appropriate question somewhere else on the Stack Exchange network, but not on Mythology.SE." CreationDate="2017-08-13T19:59:04.940" UserId="561" />
  <row Id="8435" PostId="2837" Score="1" Text="Greek and Latin is a huge canon, and I've known people with Classics degrees with little knowledge of mythology.  When Achilles withdraws from the war over his argument with Agamemnon, he is accused of cowardice.  To my mind, this would seem to support the case that Achilles refusing the inducement of gold (see Brian Donovan's answer) is counter to the intended meaning of the song lyric. By the same token, &quot;Achilles gold&quot; may refer to his undying fame, and not base, literal gold." CreationDate="2017-10-05T20:06:00.777" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8077" PostId="2840" Score="1" Text="Welcome to Mythology!  *(Just as a warning, you may receive downvotes on this question as it is asked in a way that might cast answers as &quot;opinion based&quot;, but I think think it is a good and useful question that can be answered based on analysis, which is distinct from mere opinion. If you can re-edit to address this, it would work in your favor.)*" CreationDate="2017-08-14T20:03:58.393" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8799" PostId="2841" Score="0" Text="No man nor god, nor woman, nor goddess is wiser than she who born of thought." CreationDate="2018-01-16T18:54:49.210" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8803" PostId="2841" Score="0" Text="@AndrewJohnson Haha. But look at where the gods are now!  *(&quot;Sophocles is wise, Euripides wiser still, but wisest of all men is Socrates.&quot;)*" CreationDate="2018-01-17T18:06:19.160" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8085" PostId="2843" Score="0" Text="Great question.  Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-08-17T19:40:18.877" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8084" PostId="2844" Score="1" Text="Yes, that's why I said: &quot;The combination was rooted in the role of Anubis as the conductor of souls, a trait he shares with Hermes&quot;" CreationDate="2017-08-17T13:10:54.057" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8092" PostId="2846" Score="3" Text="I'm glad you want to participate, but you're going to have to give us a bit more to work with. At a bare minimum, name (or tag) the mythological tradition you think this is from, and also name the source that &quot;you heard&quot; from about &quot;deities of the fay&quot;." CreationDate="2017-08-21T04:25:26.583" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8095" PostId="2846" Score="2" Text="There appear to be zero usable references to &quot;Kleevauks&quot; online. Are you sure the spelling is correct?" CreationDate="2017-08-21T11:26:11.917" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8102" PostId="2846" Score="0" Text="Yeah, that's just it. It's an old story from my aunt. The stories she would tell were about these creatures that somehow were a warp in time themselves, neither physical nor spiritual but a balance of both. They were fay that would appear before a great disaster, magical or natural, and would intervention in whatever way necessary depending on where balance was needed." CreationDate="2017-08-22T19:29:25.657" UserId="4083" />
  <row Id="8151" PostId="2846" Score="1" Text="What is your aunt's cultural heritage?  (That might help identify the proper spelling of &quot;Kleevauk&quot;, which may be incorrect in that, as Yannis notes, search of that spelling yields no usable results.  ([DeviantArt](https://juju772.deviantart.com/art/A-guide-to-the-Fay-686897991) is the only reference I found, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a basis in san oral tradition." CreationDate="2017-08-25T19:16:12.373" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8156" PostId="2846" Score="0" Text="@justme could you edit your question and add some detailed descriptions of your aunt's stories?" CreationDate="2017-08-26T17:22:10.463" UserDisplayName="user62" />
  <row Id="8091" PostId="2847" Score="0" Text="Nice perspective.  Props for mentioning Pelops!" CreationDate="2017-08-20T21:01:35.150" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8086" PostId="2848" Score="1" Text="Hmm... I do not disagree with the gist of this answer, but I can think of only four gods for which we know a means of transport except walking: Thor drawn by his goats, Odin on Sleipnir, Frey on his boar or his ship, and Freya drawn by her cats or (presumably) using her falcon shape." CreationDate="2017-08-19T19:17:06.397" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="8090" PostId="2848" Score="1" Text="Heimdall and Freyr have horses, at least in the Prose Edda, but I take your point. However, Thor walks across Bifrost, and the whole point of the poem [Harbardsljod](http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/poe08.htm) is that Odin (disguised) can refuse to ferry Thor across a ford too deep to wade. But it's true that we don't know how most of them get around." CreationDate="2017-08-20T20:19:55.527" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8096" PostId="2848" Score="0" Text="I just thought of something - goats aren't common in Norse myth, but the goat Heidrun provides mead (instead of milk) for the inhabitants of Valhalla, enough for them all to drink their fill each day. So I don't know *why* goats, but there seems to be a theme here." CreationDate="2017-08-22T00:41:16.637" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8098" PostId="2848" Score="2" Text="You might find [this](http://www.isvroma.it/public/pecus/jennbert.pdf) essay on why there's goats but no sheep in the myths interesting. I find it a little too speculative when there's only two uses of one and none for the other animal (and sheep as draft animals for Thor seems very odd), but it's interesting anyway." CreationDate="2017-08-22T06:15:33.353" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="8116" PostId="2848" Score="1" Text="I'm glad I used the term &quot;weird&quot; per it's association with [portentousness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyrd) re:  &quot;anyone who can yoke a goat and make it pull a wagon is clearly possessed of supernatural powers.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-08-24T17:45:46.923" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8135" PostId="2848" Score="0" Text="Very appropriate." CreationDate="2017-08-24T21:36:40.203" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8204" PostId="2848" Score="1" Text="@andejons: In Wagner's *Ring* (specifically *Die Walküre* 2.1, stage direction by the poet/composer) Fricka arrives in a chariot drawn by two rams." CreationDate="2017-08-30T15:58:31.147" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8233" PostId="2848" Score="1" Text="In the myths Freyja had two cats to pull her chariot. You can see why that wouldn't work on stage. (If Frigg had draft animals they aren't recorded.)" CreationDate="2017-08-31T21:22:02.157" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8122" PostId="2853" Score="3" Text="I'm going to have to think on this deeply--I suspect there is some meaning, but then again, it's from a comic novel ([The Metamorphosis of Apuleius, aka &quot;The Golden Ass&quot;](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apuleius#The_Golden_Ass)) In the meantime, you can find the [full text online here](http://pages.pomona.edu/~cmc24747/sources/apuleius/apuleius.htm).  The Tale of Cupid &amp; Psyche starts at Chapter IV, Section 28.  It's quite funny and bawdy, and sheds some light on the freewheeling Roman culture of the time.  PS- Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-08-24T19:38:29.280" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8146" PostId="2854" Score="4" Text="Hello. This seems like the start of a very interesting answer. Do you think you could update it with a more fleshed out summary of the story? Also, although the imagery of Apep eating the sun may seem an obvious reference to eclipses, a reference showing that this is what ancient Egyptians actually believed was their cause would turn this into an excellent answer." CreationDate="2017-08-25T08:13:36.823" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8120" PostId="2857" Score="2" Text="I like this answer, but is there a source for the quoted material?  (I don't doubt the veracity, but we like citations wherever possible.)" CreationDate="2017-08-24T19:27:23.543" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8137" PostId="2857" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou the source can be found on the skeptics stack exchange post" CreationDate="2017-08-25T00:18:36.197" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="8138" PostId="2857" Score="2" Text="Unfortunately, all of those links are dead except one that doesn't have the quote :( but I did manage to find an archived source: http://web.archive.org/web/20091113050027/www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/connections/pacific/thinking3.html" CreationDate="2017-08-25T00:42:56.063" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8140" PostId="2864" Score="0" Text="This is all very interesting, and it sufficiently answers my question, thanks. I'm a bit confused about the Herodotus quote though, how does it relate to the Golden Fleece?" CreationDate="2017-08-25T00:53:46.437" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="9171" PostId="2864" Score="0" Text="I'd edit this for you, but I can't for the life of me figure out the right word to replace &quot;arsonists&quot; with. Perhaps just plain &quot;enemies&quot;." CreationDate="2018-03-17T13:37:34.520" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8126" PostId="2866" Score="1" Text="@Gibet Well, she didn't do anything, so scapegoat is off the list." CreationDate="2017-08-24T20:47:27.893" UserId="3725" />
  <row Id="8128" PostId="2866" Score="2" Text="Euripides specifically calls out Agamemnon as a &quot;baby killer&quot; in Iphigenia at Aulis.  (In the words of his wife: &quot;You came to me, as all have heard, seizing me by force, killing my former husband and dashing my newborn infant to the earth&quot;.)  This is part of Euripides deconstruction of Aeschylus, who has Clytemnestra killing her husband out of jealousy over Cassandra, as opposed to revenge over their daughter.  It's also quite telling that Agamemnon only changes his mind about Iphigenia after it is too late, raising doubts about his intentions on the matter." CreationDate="2017-08-24T21:13:20.957" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8129" PostId="2866" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Btw, why did I saw a picture, where Clytemnestra had killed his husband with A DOUBLE-HEADE AXE, which is very METAL!" CreationDate="2017-08-24T21:17:30.193" UserId="3725" />
  <row Id="8131" PostId="2866" Score="2" Text="It's called a [Labrys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labrys) (etymology is pretty easy to discern, and heavily feminine;)  Heavy metal for sure, but bronze! She was a powerful woman, and Agamemnon almost certainly married her for her father's status and holdings." CreationDate="2017-08-24T21:21:51.843" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8132" PostId="2866" Score="2" Text="Also note that the root for Ancient Greek term for a scapegoat or sacrificial victim, φαρμακός (pharmakos) has a range of meanings, in part related to magic plants (medicines or poisons), and is the basis for modern terms like pharmacological: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=farmakon&amp;la=greek" CreationDate="2017-08-24T21:23:41.063" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16486" PostId="2866" Score="0" Text="In modern Greece the word for a pharmacy is pharmacion, or something like that. I did not know it could be said, etymologically, to mean 'store selling sacrificial victims'!" CreationDate="2023-09-17T18:40:52.457" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="8130" PostId="2867" Score="0" Text="I dunno, the gods seemed to have a clear statement on human sacrifices when they plunged that guy to hell, who fed his son to them." CreationDate="2017-08-24T21:19:08.567" UserId="3725" />
  <row Id="8133" PostId="2867" Score="0" Text="@RedactedRedacted You're interpreting it wrong.  It wasn't the killing so much as the arrogance in trying to put one over on Zeus.  (See also Lycaon, the first psychopath.) The story of the Rat Cook in Game of Thrones will help to clarify." CreationDate="2017-08-24T21:26:14.427" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8134" PostId="2867" Score="1" Text="Well, that's f@&amp;#ed up." CreationDate="2017-08-24T21:28:38.217" UserId="3725" />
  <row Id="8144" PostId="2868" Score="0" Text="&quot;SPARTAN GODS. What is YOUR profession?&quot; - &quot;HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!&quot; SCNR :D" CreationDate="2017-08-25T05:28:57.167" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="8154" PostId="2868" Score="6" Text="But....but [she's NOT armed](https://goo.gl/images/lT9tgn)...." CreationDate="2017-08-26T03:15:13.877" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8155" PostId="2868" Score="2" Text="https://digitalt.uib.no/bitstream/handle/1956.2/2995/The%20transformations%20of%20the%20armed%20Aphrodite_Flemberg.pdf This essay might provide some answers." CreationDate="2017-08-26T15:11:21.060" UserId="4102" />
  <row Id="8164" PostId="2868" Score="0" Text="This is an interesting paper, which suggests that either the statue of Aphrodite shows her holding her lover Ares' attributes, or that the artist wished to play with gender roles. (The Hellenistic fascination with the hermaphrodite is another such case.) [Another paper](https://www.scribd.com/document/176242337/Graf-War-Women-and-Warlike), by Fritz Graf, focuses on the gender inversion, noting other rituals and images that involve women and arms, suggesting that such images and the rituals or stories behind them may represent an attempt to &quot;think the unthinkable&quot;." CreationDate="2017-08-27T18:45:22.450" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8165" PostId="2868" Score="1" Text="Thank you @AlexeyNekrashevich, that is indeed a very interesting read. Perhaps you'd be interested in summarizing its key points in an answer?" CreationDate="2017-08-27T21:55:32.200" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8150" PostId="2870" Score="0" Text="I would have guessed it was about our brain, as scottish people never visited Australia afaik." CreationDate="2017-08-25T19:10:43.883" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8152" PostId="2870" Score="1" Text="Australia was colonized by the British Empire, [which included Scots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Australians), but that doesn't solve the problem of pre-colonization stories or depictions of the aquatic monsters.  A bigger problem arises from the the modern mythologization, and connections drawn by modern cryptozoologists, which are not scientific. *(I haven't even been able to validate the proposed age of the rock art depiction of Hawkesbury.)* Thus the collective unconscious is the closest thing to a rational explanation.  Sea turtles, for instance, have 4 fins." CreationDate="2017-08-25T19:35:00.653" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8168" PostId="2871" Score="1" Text="After doing some research . . . my, this is a tough question. What I've gotten so far indicates that a Yowie or a variant thereof (such as the Pangkarlangu) might not be far off, given the variety of features of the beings in stories across the continent. I haven't been able to find any definitive links with the show, though." CreationDate="2017-08-28T13:23:16.413" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="8273" PostId="2871" Score="0" Text="They sound a bit like western cultures' caricatures of cavemen or Neanderthals." CreationDate="2017-09-10T08:29:34.837" UserId="348" />
  <row Id="8189" PostId="2874" Score="0" Text="I think that there's a clear distinction between Hebrew mythology, where one of the most important stories is specifically about about Abraham *not* sacrificing his son, and Greek Mythology, where stories of human sacrifice abound. Regardless of the lack of conclusive archeological evidence, there is no doubt it was a major theme in Greek mythology, and even history, if you include the story of Themistocles' sacrifice of the captives at Salamis." CreationDate="2017-08-30T00:37:13.357" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8191" PostId="2874" Score="0" Text="Very nice detail, btw, on the distinction between the weather conditions in Aeschylus and Euripides.  *(My creative interpretation is definitely rooted in the latter;)*  Also for bringing up the Cacoyannis.  That film was a favorite of the scholars I studied under!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SQFWWaKMS0" CreationDate="2017-08-30T01:03:04.480" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8196" PostId="2874" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou, I stop well short of Campbellian monism in my approach to myth, but I compare 'em as I see 'em. We have multiple versions of the Aulis myth, and only one surviving telling of the sacrifice of Isaac (which is what the tale is usually called), but that does not necessarily mean that the rescue-and-substitution ending is fundamental to the latter myth. As for human sacrifice being a motif in more Greek myths than one, myths commonly contemplate deeds that are wholly abnormal for the culture that generates and preserves them, including maternal infanticide (Medea, Signý, Guðrún)." CreationDate="2017-08-30T14:22:30.927" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8199" PostId="2874" Score="0" Text="Certainly human sacrifice and infanticide were used to show the barbarity of earlier and foreign cultures, with the [Athenian tribute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrificial_victims_of_Minotaur) as a prime example.  Nevertheless, there is barbarity in Greek culture in the Classical period, taking forms such as the terrorization of the helots, and the [massacre at Melos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Melos#The_Melian_Dialogue) under Athenian hegemony." CreationDate="2017-08-30T14:56:57.360" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8203" PostId="2874" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou feel free to term it *evil:* in the context of things Ancient Greek, *barbarity* has implications that are at best tangential. And Euripides was only the greatest of many who could and did see and denounce it as evil at the time; witness a play I like to call *Troy's Daughters.*" CreationDate="2017-08-30T15:48:22.127" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="16487" PostId="2874" Score="0" Text="'I have nowhere found any hint that Achilles was necrophiliac', er, hate to mention this, but Penthesilea, Queen of the Amazons..." CreationDate="2023-09-17T18:45:38.890" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="8157" PostId="2875" Score="0" Text="Are you looking for examples specifically/exclusively from Greek mythology?" CreationDate="2017-08-27T02:47:09.083" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="8158" PostId="2875" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra Yes, I'm mostly looking for Greek examples in this question. I would be interested in exploring the motif across different cultures, but I don't think that could work in a single question. The Q&amp;A format of the site is fine-tuned towards questions with a small set of answers and rarely works well with broader questions. Related Meta discussion: [Can we ask “example” questions?](https://mythology.meta.stackexchange.com/q/284/57)." CreationDate="2017-08-27T12:03:18.357" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8704" PostId="2877" Score="1" Text="There's [a whole book on the subject](https://books.google.com/books?id=vSNMAQAAQBAJ)." CreationDate="2017-12-17T14:01:23.390" UserId="2810" />
  <row Id="8159" PostId="2878" Score="0" Text="Great, thanks. I did look at the Theban cycle for examples, but I must have only checked how long the wars lasted. It didn't occur to me to check how long the interwar period was." CreationDate="2017-08-27T12:06:52.837" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8622" PostId="2881" Score="0" Text="That, and it is Heracles in Greek. With the mention of Achilles, one can only wonder if this was part of his lack of expertise." CreationDate="2017-11-11T23:03:21.280" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10553" PostId="2881" Score="1" Text="@AndrewJohnson - I'm not sure how many times I have to tell people that the leader of Coldplay is trained classicist before they believe me...." CreationDate="2018-05-08T17:21:33.897" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10554" PostId="2881" Score="0" Text="@Obie2.0 , &quot;Martin continued his studies at University College London (UCL), staying at Ramsay Hall, where he read Ancient World Studies and graduated with first-class honours in Greek and Latin.&quot;" CreationDate="2018-05-08T17:29:41.703" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10555" PostId="2881" Score="0" Text="I believe you. But just because someone is trained in something, doesn't mean they will remember it forever (my grandpa was trained for nukes and my mom for military jets/planes, don't think the recall much about those subjects). Plus, I kinda made that comment out of spite. I just hate it when people mention Hercules as Greek. If he was taking about his Roman/Latin form, I could understand the usage." CreationDate="2018-05-08T17:31:28.777" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8161" PostId="2882" Score="1" Text="[Venn Diagram](https://www.imageidentify.com/result/0siohraxzslze)" CreationDate="2017-08-27T16:33:11.070" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8163" PostId="2883" Score="0" Text="Yeh I think it's a venn diagram of taijitu. Thanks" CreationDate="2017-08-27T18:29:09.790" UserId="4107" />
  <row Id="8162" PostId="2884" Score="0" Text="There’s also the Christianity SE for this question. Don’t cross-post, but you might get a better answer there." CreationDate="2017-08-27T17:52:55.357" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="8661" PostId="2885" Score="0" Text="What do you mean by &quot;vault of heaven?&quot;" CreationDate="2017-11-29T16:13:35.513" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8662" PostId="2885" Score="1" Text="Nothing - on checking with the Perseus site, I edited it to reflect their translation. [(Iliad xv: 15-25)](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0134%3Abook%3D15%3Acard%3D1)." CreationDate="2017-11-29T19:27:33.457" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8171" PostId="2888" Score="0" Text="Hmmm. I'll have to read those when I get home from school." CreationDate="2017-08-28T19:38:03.220" UserId="4108" />
  <row Id="8173" PostId="2889" Score="0" Text="Of what mythology? If any?" CreationDate="2017-08-28T21:37:03.393" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8174" PostId="2889" Score="0" Text="@bleh META, an underlying concept that is in almost every mythology" CreationDate="2017-08-28T21:37:50.297" UserId="3725" />
  <row Id="8197" PostId="2889" Score="0" Text="I realized I already linked the Frazer in a previous question, so I amended my question to give you a specific example.  (Notably, it also involves a human sacrifice;)  You're going to notice a divide between the camp that rejects Frazer and Graves, and the camp that believes their insights have profound literary value.  There may not be archaeological, but Frazer's ideas did not arise out of a vacuum--one of the greatest plays in Greek drama is *specifically* about this subject." CreationDate="2017-08-30T14:40:17.447" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8221" PostId="2890" Score="0" Text="And all of these assume that Revelation was speaking to the contemporary church (for what it's worth, I believe this also.)  However, millennialist/apocalyptic sects of Christianity generally assume that Revelation is a prophecy of the End Times, and so the interpretation of the seven kings/kingdoms has been adjusted throughout the centuries to include whichever powers make the prophecy feel most urgent; for example, when I was growing up in the SDA church in the 80s, the last two kingdoms were the Soviet Union and the USA." CreationDate="2017-08-31T07:19:22.280" UserId="4113" />
  <row Id="11579" PostId="2890" Score="0" Text="@MT_Head I'm not sure how interpretations that mentions popes or papal Rome could be spoken to the contemporary church (if by contemporary you mean contemporary to the book of Revelation)" CreationDate="2019-05-21T13:30:26.470" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="11580" PostId="2890" Score="0" Text="@ba - You're right; I should have said &quot;all but two of these&quot;." CreationDate="2019-05-21T15:15:40.123" UserId="4113" />
  <row Id="8178" PostId="2892" Score="0" Text="&quot;I think it's safe to assume Gaia's youngest is considered a far more formidable opponent than the combined forces of the Titans.&quot; I'm not following your logic on this. That doesn't sound like a *remotely* safe assumption to me." CreationDate="2017-08-29T14:35:49.130" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="8186" PostId="2892" Score="0" Text="Great question, regardless!" CreationDate="2017-08-29T23:18:11.500" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8210" PostId="2892" Score="0" Text="@femtoRgon The gods conquered the Titans, but panicked and scattered when Typhon appeared. I'm assuming that happened because they didn't feel they stood a chance against the giant." CreationDate="2017-08-30T16:46:45.610" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="8185" PostId="2896" Score="1" Text="Haha!  Great question.  (It brings to mind the *Atalanta-eque* woman from the Irish folkore whose legs were described as being backwards, like the hind legs of a stag or horse, to explain her swiftness.) Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-08-29T23:11:13.867" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8187" PostId="2896" Score="0" Text="Thanks!  The more I think about it, the more I think it was a tall tale rather than an ancient legend... but I'm still no closer to remembering the actual source." CreationDate="2017-08-29T23:30:03.163" UserId="4113" />
  <row Id="8188" PostId="2896" Score="0" Text="It's been so long since I delved into the Irish legends, aside from Yeats' plays, but this one is pretty resonant.  Will be great to get a source, regardless." CreationDate="2017-08-29T23:37:06.007" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8195" PostId="2897" Score="2" Text="This detail might possibly occur in some tellings of the story of Macha's foot-race, reckoned among the *remscela* of the *Táin* in that it explains the curse by which the Ulstermen suffer disabling pangs as of childbirth in their hour of most need. I don't recall it, however, from [Kinsella's version](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-tain-9780192803733?cc=us&amp;lang=en&amp;) (pp. 6–8), for which the source text for this *remscel* is that edited by Windisch and published in 1884." CreationDate="2017-08-30T13:53:14.087" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8198" PostId="2897" Score="0" Text="@BrianDonovan Good call re: [Macha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macha).  The the Kinsella is my favorite translation, but I'm not entirely sure if the description of the reverse legs derives from the Táin or the broader Ulster cycle." CreationDate="2017-08-30T14:48:00.430" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8207" PostId="2897" Score="1" Text="Note the association with horses in the Wiki piece you link." CreationDate="2017-08-30T16:19:31.443" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="10860" PostId="2897" Score="0" Text="Didn't the Badb Catha have backwards knees (along with other grotesque features) in Togail Bruidne Dá Derga?" CreationDate="2018-09-26T10:56:41.100" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="13934" PostId="2897" Score="0" Text="For what it's worth, horses (dogs, etc.) don't actually have &quot;backward knees&quot;.  They have short thighs and very long feet, making their heels look like backward knees." CreationDate="2020-10-10T13:03:14.443" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="8249" PostId="2898" Score="0" Text="Related: [What are the life-spans for faeries?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2905)" CreationDate="2017-09-03T00:11:43.150" UserId="806" />
  <row Id="8793" PostId="2898" Score="0" Text="http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/oceanic-mythology.php?deity=MATAGAIGAI  found this." CreationDate="2018-01-14T15:20:22.327" UserId="4108" />
  <row Id="8192" PostId="2900" Score="0" Text="I just tried putting duende into Google Translate and it came out as elf with dwarf as an alternate translation. So there you go." CreationDate="2017-08-30T02:14:45.750" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="8201" PostId="2901" Score="2" Text="&quot;Fawn are not endemic in Egypt&quot; I do not think that's true @Gibet. Not that it matters, really. The question remains, and becomes even more interesting if deer were indeed not present in Egyptian mythology: Why did Antoninus Liberalis pick a fawn for Heracles?" CreationDate="2017-08-30T15:29:25.570" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8220" PostId="2901" Score="3" Text="@Gibet There appears to be osteological evidence for deers in ancient Egypt: [On the Presence of Deer in Ancient Egypt: Analysis of the Osteological Record](https://www.jstor.org/stable/40345868?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents). That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Antoninus Liberalis meant antelope, gazelle, or even oryx when he wrote deer. The iconography of deer in Egyptian mythology may be worth a separate question." CreationDate="2017-08-31T01:03:15.963" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8232" PostId="2901" Score="2" Text="Supporting Yannis' point, there [was no formal word in Ancient Greek to distinguish between squid and octopuses](https://latin.stackexchange.com/q/5080/1407), or even an exclusive word for cuttlefish, so the distinction between different &quot;deerlike&quot; animals such as antelope vs. gazelle vs. red deer wouldn't likely have been important linguistically." CreationDate="2017-08-31T18:51:46.140" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8284" PostId="2901" Score="0" Text="@Gibet that's very useful, but supports my underlying point.  See the lexical entry for [damma](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Ddamma): &quot;a fallow deer, buck, doe, antelope, chamois&quot; *(and I'd add an &quot;etc.&quot;;)*" CreationDate="2017-09-13T20:12:44.937" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8291" PostId="2901" Score="0" Text="@yannis Are the [Egyptian parallels] in brackets from the original Latin, the translation, or an addition for the question?  Do you know of an online source for the translation, and ideally the Latin?  (Reference to the section would be helpful, if so.)  I really want to see the Latin word used for &quot;fawn&quot;, to determine if there may be other potential meanings.  The key distinction I see with the set of deities is that Heracles alone is a demi-god, which may account for the reduced status in transformation, but there may be more to it." CreationDate="2017-09-14T18:49:10.950" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8296" PostId="2901" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Updated the question." CreationDate="2017-09-15T07:48:57.013" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8215" PostId="2902" Score="3" Text="I don't consider this off topic, but I think it's very broad. Tolkien's world is immense, and there are hundreds, if not thousands, of creatures and stories that echo actual mythologies. Would it be possible to narrow this down to something a bit more specific? Something like, for example, this:&#xA; [What is the inspiration behind Tolkien's Ents?](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/q/152508)" CreationDate="2017-08-30T22:21:11.057" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8218" PostId="2902" Score="0" Text="@yannis I understand, but I don't know how to narrow it down, I did edit the question to ask what creatures rather than how many though" CreationDate="2017-08-30T23:17:08.077" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="8230" PostId="2902" Score="1" Text="This would be on-topic on Lit, Scifi, and here, but I think Mythology is the best choice.  My understanding is that Tolkien wasn't trying to create so much as reconstruct a lost English mythology, so I wouldn't be surprised if every creature in the LOTR universe has some precedent." CreationDate="2017-08-31T18:38:53.313" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8234" PostId="2906" Score="1" Text="Not necessarily, the feathers of Athenian owls are grey(ish). Although the more common translations for γλαυκῶπις assume it's a reference to the distinctiveness of owl eyes, there's no reason why the epithet can't be a poetic reference to the bird's colour. &quot;grey-eyed&quot; isn't an incorrect translation." CreationDate="2017-09-01T02:59:58.340" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8242" PostId="2906" Score="0" Text="@yannis This prompts me to go deeper into the descriptions of Athena's eyes being highly metaphoric--never is she thought of as having yellow or orange eyes.  So she may be owl-eyed and bright-eyed, but the owlishness and brightness would relate to her keen perception, as you note in your answer, as opposed to the literal color.  Solsdottir also notes the association of γλαυκός first with silvery, then bluish-green or gray.  *(Through Pallas-daughter-of-Triton, Athena is associated with the sea, often bluish-green or gray.)*" CreationDate="2017-09-01T18:09:02.257" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8243" PostId="2906" Score="0" Text="@C-2 PS, welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-09-01T18:09:53.733" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14766" PostId="2906" Score="0" Text="I'm not even sure that owls are supposed to have bright eyes.  Bubo bubo has noticable yellow or orange eyes, but also distinctive large ears and a big triangular forehead close to its eyes. The images of owls that I've seen associated with Athena don't like like that at all.  They look more like stylized images of Strix aluco, with no visible ears, and a flat face with a smaller forehead far from its eyes.  And as far as I can tell Stirx aluco has dark eyes." CreationDate="2021-12-16T00:22:26.893" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="15768" PostId="2906" Score="0" Text="I was probably wrong about that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_owl#In_human_culture suggests that Athena may be associated to the species Athene noctua, which does have bright yellow eyes." CreationDate="2021-12-16T09:51:17.807" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8237" PostId="2907" Score="0" Text="These are twelve gods indeed. Any indication these are the ones Herodotus had in mind?" CreationDate="2017-09-01T07:40:12.837" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8375" PostId="2910" Score="0" Text="Thanks for a very interesting question. I haven't put too much thought into an answer yet, but I will say that epithets can be used anachronistically, since the narrative and the poetry are separate." CreationDate="2017-09-23T01:54:49.470" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="8261" PostId="2920" Score="1" Text="Sounds to me like a vegetarian version of the beloved chupacabra!" CreationDate="2017-09-06T19:50:26.133" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8250" PostId="2922" Score="1" Text="I know selene was said to cause dew, which would let vegetation grow" CreationDate="2017-09-05T19:47:00.990" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8252" PostId="2922" Score="0" Text="A 'List of Lunar deities' is a page in wikipedia with more than 50 names; one could check if they (also) tend to be correlated to vegetation." CreationDate="2017-09-06T09:02:41.520" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="8259" PostId="2924" Score="1" Text="Great question.  I'm very interested in this subject as well!" CreationDate="2017-09-06T19:28:48.363" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8253" PostId="2925" Score="2" Text="Hello *Vilhelm*! Are you interested in mythological references about characters who ventured into the underworld from Greek mythology? Or are you looking to create your own world with your own rules about how you want to represent your underworld? If it's the latter the sister site [WorldBuilding.SE](https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/) might be interesting for you. We don't deal with opinion-based questions about what a character should do, but maybe we could rework this a bit if that fits your goal. What are the dangers you expect for example? [Tour] and [Help] may be useful for you." CreationDate="2017-09-06T12:43:05.463" UserId="4144" />
  <row Id="8254" PostId="2925" Score="1" Text="Hello. We generally favour specific questions over broad list-type ones. I tried to narrow this down a bit by making it explicitly about the Greek underworld. You may find more details on our guidelines in our [help center](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help)." CreationDate="2017-09-06T12:43:13.930" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8255" PostId="2925" Score="2" Text="Oh, and you can find WorldBuildings tour [here](https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/tour) and the corresponding help center [here](https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/help)." CreationDate="2017-09-06T13:02:21.133" UserId="4144" />
  <row Id="8257" PostId="2925" Score="7" Text="The coin is for the one-way passengers, the dead: I do not recall its appearance in mythological accounts of round trips to the underworld by living persons. Such a mythic/epic episode is termed a *katabasis:* the most famous examples are *Odyssey* 11 and *Aeneid* 6.  A &quot;sop&quot; (actually a drugged cake) for Cerberus appears in the latter, provided not by the traveler Aeneas but by his guide the Sybil. The great talisman for that visit, though, is the golden bough. Odysseus took his sword and a black ram for sacrifice. Drinking the blood from this sacrifice enabled the shades to speak to him." CreationDate="2017-09-06T17:50:09.467" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8258" PostId="2925" Score="3" Text="@BrianDonovan Great info.  You should do a formal answer!" CreationDate="2017-09-06T19:26:18.370" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8276" PostId="2925" Score="0" Text="Thanks! I am interested in ALL underworlds in this part of my work. To get inspired. and in the end take out the best from all of them. And I will check out the Worldbuilding.se All the best, Vilhelm" CreationDate="2017-09-11T11:46:20.240" UserId="4143" />
  <row Id="8277" PostId="2925" Score="1" Text="There's also a story in Greek mythology about Orpheus the musician entering the underworld alive to return his dead wife Eurydikē from there.  Orpheus made the trip but didn't manage to rescue his wife.  The Kalevala also has what I think is a journey through the underworld with return." CreationDate="2017-09-11T15:31:05.057" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8281" PostId="2925" Score="0" Text="I am familiar to the Euridike story, thanks for the Kaleavala tip, I will  check that out. Vilhelm." CreationDate="2017-09-13T07:29:19.587" UserId="4143" />
  <row Id="8282" PostId="2925" Score="0" Text="See also https://gaming.stackexchange.com/q/197475/48048 &quot;How do I survive in the Underworld?&quot; (on Arqade)." CreationDate="2017-09-13T12:51:16.167" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8264" PostId="2926" Score="0" Text="This is a great question.  Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-09-07T19:03:27.030" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8263" PostId="2927" Score="0" Text="Heliacal risings (and solstices) are probably the earliest season markers and they do not need counting i.e. a 'calendar'." CreationDate="2017-09-07T08:33:55.853" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="8265" PostId="2931" Score="0" Text="Off the top of my head, Hercules, Theseus, and some Peirithous who went with theseus" CreationDate="2017-09-08T01:07:12.357" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8266" PostId="2931" Score="0" Text="Not Peirithous, my bad" CreationDate="2017-09-08T01:12:43.597" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8268" PostId="2931" Score="0" Text="Also Orpheus, Odysseus, and (per Virgil) Aeneas. Then there is another category of people who were brought back from the dead, including Pelops, Alcestis, and [several patients](http://www.greekmythologylink.org/GML/Asclepius.html) of Asclepius." CreationDate="2017-09-08T14:44:29.770" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="10302" PostId="2932" Score="1" Text="A pantheon of incest. Uncles, mothers, sisters, brothers, fathers (This one probably not), aunts, everything was a go. No wonder that Chronos tried to remove his degenerate kids." CreationDate="2018-04-01T21:25:52.097" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="8269" PostId="2936" Score="0" Text="Wow! Does that mean you're gonna participate now instead of lurking" CreationDate="2017-09-08T19:49:16.497" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8270" PostId="2936" Score="0" Text="@bleh I'll participate like a snake in the grass." CreationDate="2017-09-08T19:49:56.223" UserId="2911" />
  <row Id="8271" PostId="2936" Score="0" Text="Also Achilles, when his mother Thetis took him to dip him in the River Styx." CreationDate="2017-09-08T21:53:43.570" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8279" PostId="2936" Score="0" Text="@Spencer Unfortunately, I'm not finding info on if she went into the Hades side or not; the River Styx traditionally forms the boundary between the living world and underworld (and is a real river in some ancient maps!), so getting to it might not necessarily require going to the underworld." CreationDate="2017-09-12T15:15:26.300" UserId="2911" />
  <row Id="8303" PostId="2938" Score="0" Text="In fact, the previous chapter in Genesis gives an alternative. The story in Genesis 11, the ziggurat of Babylon story, suggests the languages were a divine scrambling of human speech. The story in Genesis 10 instead has humanity dispersing into tribes and nations without direction, each evolving their own language as a result." CreationDate="2017-09-16T15:13:19.630" UserDisplayName="user1079" />
  <row Id="8274" PostId="2939" Score="3" Text="It's also her way of really sticking it to Jason, since in Euripedes she not only kills his children, but also his new bride, thus ensuring he will have no posterity." CreationDate="2017-09-10T23:18:03.720" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8278" PostId="2939" Score="0" Text="@solsdottir Thanks for reminding me; I originally meant to include that but managed to forget." CreationDate="2017-09-12T01:30:43.873" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="8292" PostId="2949" Score="0" Text="Interesting question!  I was unaware of this text.  *(Note: The Wiki on this needs to be treated as fairly unreliable imo.  Suggesting this work derives from the time of Abraham in textual form seems quite absurd, and I doubt any serious scholars would suggest such a thing.)*" CreationDate="2017-09-14T19:24:48.950" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8299" PostId="2949" Score="0" Text="Thank you! Here's another one: [Who is the man in the Apocalypse of Abraham?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2952/who-is-the-man-in-the-apocalypse-of-abraham) ;)" CreationDate="2017-09-15T10:43:11.617" UserId="3230" />
  <row Id="8298" PostId="2951" Score="0" Text="This raises more questions than it answers ;) Do you think I should post a new question about the significance of ages of the animals in Genesis?" CreationDate="2017-09-15T10:34:04.810" UserId="3230" />
  <row Id="8302" PostId="2951" Score="0" Text="@GirsanVirlee It might not be a bad idea, but probably you'd get an answer much sooner on the [Mi Yodeya Stack](https://judaism.stackexchange.com/), so I'd recommend posting it over there." CreationDate="2017-09-15T23:40:04.067" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8304" PostId="2951" Score="0" Text="I tried one of the religion stacks once - it was not for me. Didn't know about Mi Yodeya though, I will check it out." CreationDate="2017-09-16T15:52:31.813" UserId="3230" />
  <row Id="16251" PostId="2954" Score="0" Text="I think that while some of the issues God had to deal with during Revelation are similar to what was discussed in various books of the OT, I do not think we can say that John was drawing on what was already mentioned. I hold to the belief that what John saw is what he wrote and nothing more. In the end of Revelation are we not told not to change a word of this book?" CreationDate="2023-01-05T13:43:20.810" UserId="9884" />
  <row Id="8325" PostId="2957" Score="0" Text="This is fascinating, thanks. I found [this site](http://www.alankurschner.com/2012/08/04/who-are-the-wild-beasts-of-the-earth-in-the-fourth-seal-of-revelation-68/) that posits the beasts are a reference to the antichrist, because the word used in the original is thērion. A word that everywhere else in Rev refers to the antichrist. Do you think that's also a valid interpretation?" CreationDate="2017-09-20T21:21:08.977" UserId="3230" />
  <row Id="8332" PostId="2957" Score="0" Text="While θηρίον is used for 'the beast of the abyss/sea' in the Revelation (note that the term 'antichrist' is not used in the Revelation anywhere), θηρίον is just a word that means 'beast' or '[wild] animal' in ancient Greek. It's the word used in the Septuagint, the Greek translations of the Hebrew texts I provided above. Unless someone is arguing from a specific religious perspective, I think it's incredibly doubtful the 'beasts' in Revelation 6 are intended to be identified with the 'beast' introduced in Revelation 11." CreationDate="2017-09-21T00:40:01.463" UserDisplayName="user1079" />
  <row Id="8306" PostId="2959" Score="0" Text="Your question title is deceptive in suggesting the question concerns vengeance taken BY Odysseus, not ON him--and indeed the last few books of the *Odyssey* show him indulging in an over-the-top orgy of vengeance against both the suitors and some of his own slaves, after which only a *deus ex machina* ending keeps his kingdom from civil war." CreationDate="2017-09-17T15:18:07.273" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8307" PostId="2959" Score="0" Text="Also, Odysseus leads his men into the cave, they help themselves to the owner's food, and Polyphemus replaces the doorstone, trapping them, all before the monster even becomes aware of his visitors. Moreover, Odysseus seeks hospitality from Polyphemus not because he needs it, but out of greed for the traditional treasure-gifts from host to guest (9.229)." CreationDate="2017-09-17T15:26:06.017" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8308" PostId="2959" Score="0" Text="@BrianDonovan argh! Yes, the title was wrong. I tried to write &quot;Odysseus's punishment&quot; first, and then decided &quot;punishment&quot; need not have been accurate, but messed up when I changed it to &quot;Odysseus's vengeance&quot;." CreationDate="2017-09-17T15:29:28.250" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8309" PostId="2961" Score="1" Text="AFAIK the association of left with femininity is something adopted from India. I don't think there is a clear reason why, but it appears to be a strongly held association in Indian culture. The same association is evident in other Indian beliefs such as Hinduism or Buddhism." CreationDate="2017-09-18T06:48:20.700" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="16354" PostId="2961" Score="0" Text="left is weaker maybe associated with woman." CreationDate="2023-05-06T03:31:17.107" UserId="3302" />
  <row Id="8311" PostId="2963" Score="0" Text="Welcome to Mythology!  I took the liberty of linking your answer to the relevant wiki.  Nice connection.  *(PS see Solsdottir's answer and the notes for the association of weirdness with portentousness.)*" CreationDate="2017-09-18T21:09:11.970" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8312" PostId="2964" Score="2" Text="This is a very interesting question.  Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-09-18T21:10:23.427" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8381" PostId="2964" Score="1" Text="What about Hindu lokas?" CreationDate="2017-09-24T10:31:11.063" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="8384" PostId="2964" Score="0" Text="@Vick: They look very relevant; if you want to expand into an answer that would be great, otherwise I can always google around on my own. Thanks." CreationDate="2017-09-24T16:51:11.450" UserId="4171" />
  <row Id="8387" PostId="2964" Score="0" Text="@Era sorry but I don't know much about them" CreationDate="2017-09-25T06:23:43.907" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="8313" PostId="2966" Score="1" Text="How is Zeus associated with Athens (more than any other city)? Also, Hestia had no use for temples, she was - as you mention - present in every hearth and offering fire. Why is Plato giving her a temple? And why is she mentioned first, before the king of gods." CreationDate="2017-09-19T05:55:33.830" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8329" PostId="2966" Score="1" Text="Athens had its [prytaneum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prytaneum), where the sacred fire was kept, like any other Greek city, which would have been sacred to Hestia. She was given the first offering from every sacrifice, and she was the first-born of the Olympians, which might explain why Plato mentions her first. For more on Hestia, see &quot;Hestia, Hearth Goddess and Cult&quot; by Mika Kajava. (On [JSTOR](https://www.jstor.org/stable/4150030?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) or [Scribd](https://www.scribd.com/document/323849484/Hestia-Hearth-Goddess-and-Cult))" CreationDate="2017-09-20T22:41:43.307" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8330" PostId="2966" Score="1" Text="You might also want to look at this page [Homer's Gods, Plato's Gods](http://people.wku.edu/jan.garrett/pgods.htm), which looks at the place of gods, especially Zeus, in Plato's philosophy." CreationDate="2017-09-20T22:48:57.360" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8331" PostId="2966" Score="1" Text="I appreciate the information on Hestia, but I still don't see why she is preferred by Plato over the rest of the Olympians. I am not asking why Hestia was important to the Greeks, I'm asking why Plato considered her more important than the rest. How is Hestia crucial to the success of his ideal city? And why does his version of the goddess gets a temple, a significant departure from tradition." CreationDate="2017-09-20T22:51:13.833" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8357" PostId="2966" Score="2" Text="@yannis possibly it has to do with Zeus not being so much of a benefactor to man as a sometimes nemesis, the criticality of fire to man's survival, and Hestia being the keeper of the hearth flame.  The position of her temple might be related to the idea of the hearth being the &quot;center&quot; of the home, and the extension of that concept to the city-state." CreationDate="2017-09-22T19:28:39.557" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8314" PostId="2967" Score="1" Text="I'm interested to see if there's indeed any such stories. But considering the Amazons were spawned by Ares, I think it's probably safe to say M̶a̶r̶v̶e̶l̶ DC (my bad, I always confuse these) didn't do much research and concocted the entire thing." CreationDate="2017-09-19T08:25:49.497" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8315" PostId="2967" Score="1" Text="@Semaphore Heh, this time it isn't Marvel's fault. Wonder Woman is a DC Comics title." CreationDate="2017-09-19T08:48:18.630" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8316" PostId="2967" Score="3" Text="From my dim memory of the DC Silver Age comics, it was essentially a male/female=violence/peace divide. The Amazons were strong, skilled, honorable, but *peaceful* women. They *could* fight well, but they never sought conflict, and Paradise Island was a utopia of getting along. Ares was the embodiment of testosterone poisoning and all the senseless violence and anger which go with that condition. It was a philosophical conflict. I recall the Amazons associated with Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite, *not* any gods (not even Zeus). But it's been a long time since I read the comics." CreationDate="2017-09-19T09:49:51.983" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="8584" PostId="2967" Score="1" Text="This is basically right. According to [Tim Hanley's book](https://www.amazon.ca/Wonder-Woman-Unbound-Curious-History/dp/1613749090/ref=pd_sbs_14_3?_encoding=UTF8&amp;psc=1&amp;refRID=76SVMQZ9GSHJB8S35FK2), this ideology was built into DC's Amazons right from the beginning. Wonder Woman might have fought in WWII, but she did it to bring about peace." CreationDate="2017-10-31T01:19:46.847" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8324" PostId="2969" Score="1" Text="This might get some good answers on either https://christianity.stackexchange.com or https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com." CreationDate="2017-09-20T18:28:53.163" UserId="3947" />
  <row Id="8322" PostId="2971" Score="0" Text="Ok, thanks guys, I was wondering if it would go here or there, and I just figured I would ask it here." CreationDate="2017-09-20T10:47:37.080" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="8323" PostId="2971" Score="3" Text="I have voted to re-open on the grounds that this question can and should be answered by pointing to narrative content in the New Testament, notably including Peter's dream in Acts, and some of Jesus' confrontations with the Pharisees. Campbell called myth &quot;other people's religion,&quot; which definition I accept only on the stipulation that *everyone* is &quot;other people&quot; to someone. I prefer to define myth as *[sacred story](http://faculty.bemidjistate.edu/bdonovan/MythSyll.pdf),* and these NT passages qualify." CreationDate="2017-09-20T13:01:45.153" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="13922" PostId="2971" Score="0" Text="Note: it is not entirely correct that the OT is the Hebrew Bible, because there are a number of differences: a. the OT divides into parts several books such as the 12 minor prophets, Samuel, etc. In the Tanach or Hebrew Bible, these are whole books. b. the OT adds a number of books to the Hebrew Bible which Jews don't include, such as Ben Sirach and Baruch. c. While chapter divisions are a Christian idea, with Jews having an earlier system but eventually adopting the chapter system, there are some differences between the Christian model and the Jewish model." CreationDate="2020-10-07T17:45:20.147" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="13939" PostId="2971" Score="0" Text="@Harel13 does Baruch have anything to do with Brakhot in the Mishna, or is it just the name that's related?" CreationDate="2020-10-12T12:19:49.727" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="13940" PostId="2971" Score="0" Text="Just related. Both are derived from the root ברך brkh, to bless." CreationDate="2020-10-12T13:25:04.213" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="8391" PostId="2972" Score="0" Text="I find the claim that the moon would have equal status in regard to a mill that produces bounty problematic (the moon controls the tides, but is the churn of the ocean analogous to the ripening of crops and the generation of wealth per the sun's gift of light and warmth?)  Great answer, nonetheless!" CreationDate="2017-09-25T21:03:23.203" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8393" PostId="2972" Score="1" Text="Sorry, the comment about the moon was not mine...it was a quote further down in the original quote - I didn't separate it correctly.  However, I think much happens 'in the dark' when things grow. Perhaps one would not happen without the other?" CreationDate="2017-09-25T22:34:04.020" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="8338" PostId="2976" Score="0" Text="Welcome to Mythology!  *(Props for bringing up the great year.)*" CreationDate="2017-09-21T21:57:18.930" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8334" PostId="2979" Score="0" Text="Very interesting; what are ke'let?" CreationDate="2017-09-21T13:51:27.693" UserId="4171" />
  <row Id="8335" PostId="2979" Score="1" Text="@Era they are basically &quot;spirits&quot;: `Larger material unities, such as forests,rivers, lakes, etc., have special &quot;owners&quot;, who are also called&#xA;&quot;masters&quot; [...] Various classes of animals and trees also have their &quot;masters,&quot; who live in the forest with them [...] The Chukchee often call all these &quot;masters&quot; simply &quot;spirits&quot; (ke'let)`." CreationDate="2017-09-21T13:55:26.593" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="8355" PostId="2980" Score="0" Text="How do those who don't follow the Jewish laws reconcile referring to the Old Testament for prohibitions and punishments for behaviors they personally disagree with?" CreationDate="2017-09-22T19:18:15.507" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8339" PostId="2981" Score="1" Text="Nice.  *(PS-you may want to think about adding some links to garner more upvotes)*" CreationDate="2017-09-21T21:59:20.930" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8345" PostId="2981" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou I expanded my answer and added some links" CreationDate="2017-09-22T14:49:33.320" UserId="3947" />
  <row Id="8356" PostId="2985" Score="0" Text="Great point about common sense and charity.  (It seems that element is all too often overlooked.)" CreationDate="2017-09-22T19:21:02.527" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8385" PostId="2985" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou, yes, but I would note that the real test of a Code Hero, a common and important type of mythic figure, occurs when an artificial elite code of conduct such as *bushido* or chivalry conflicts with common sense, including self-preservation, and the hero follows the code nonetheless." CreationDate="2017-09-24T17:22:19.767" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8389" PostId="2985" Score="0" Text="Bushido is a special case b/c in honor/shame warrior cultures, the the primary goal is to die with honor (preferably in battle, but failing that, potentially in an ordeal that proves the hero's courage, thus the painful belly-cut of seppuku.  It's worth noting that ritual suicide was often a form of protest, and mirrored in Greek culture by figures like Ajax and Socrates.)" CreationDate="2017-09-25T17:18:12.800" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11241" PostId="2986" Score="1" Text="@Gibet I'm almost wondering if &quot;2/3&quot; might be a euphemism for 3/4." CreationDate="2019-01-30T17:57:37.680" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8363" PostId="2987" Score="12" Text="You should probably take up the part about your answer being edited on [meta]. Most Stack Exchange sites recommend that people _don't_ edit posts just to change, e.g., British to American spelling, and changing between different romanizations of Greek feels like the same thing, to me." CreationDate="2017-09-22T21:55:17.420" UserId="4191" />
  <row Id="8386" PostId="2987" Score="0" Text="@DavidRicherby I'll think about it. Thanks." CreationDate="2017-09-24T23:09:21.753" UserId="3474" />
  <row Id="8362" PostId="2988" Score="2" Text="Actually, &quot;Herakles&quot; is much more modern than &quot;Heracles&quot; in English, at least. Classical names are usually romanized with κ -&gt; c (Crete, Corinth, Constantine, Electra, ...), whereas modern names usually use κ -&gt; k." CreationDate="2017-09-22T21:51:26.290" UserId="4191" />
  <row Id="8364" PostId="2988" Score="0" Text="is it? Most websites that list him use the c because it looks more like Hercules I guess." CreationDate="2017-09-22T21:56:47.337" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8365" PostId="2988" Score="2" Text="No, most sites use the c because, traditionally, kappa has been romanized as c in English, not k. (Euclid, Hippocrates, Callicrates, Polycarp, Theocritus, Cleopatra, Pericles, Saint Cyril, ...)" CreationDate="2017-09-22T22:02:41.240" UserId="4191" />
  <row Id="8366" PostId="2988" Score="0" Text="@bleh I just realized, would you call Hercules Herkules?" CreationDate="2017-09-22T22:17:06.157" UserId="3474" />
  <row Id="8368" PostId="2988" Score="0" Text="@12944qwerty latin is a bit different, you use mostly the same characters (all the same characters if you don't count accents), and c is c and k is k." CreationDate="2017-09-22T22:17:55.763" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8367" PostId="2989" Score="0" Text="I just realized, would you call Hercules Herkules?" CreationDate="2017-09-22T22:17:25.050" UserId="3474" />
  <row Id="8379" PostId="2989" Score="0" Text="@12944qwerty It's not very common in English. But it's the standard spelling in Czech and many other languages that have more connection with the Greek origins. &quot;Heracles&quot; is usually spelled as &quot;Héraklés&quot;, though most people simply call him &quot;Herkules&quot; (with proper inflection)." CreationDate="2017-09-23T08:40:34.647" UserId="4195" />
  <row Id="8361" PostId="2990" Score="2" Text="Wonderful answer.  Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-09-22T21:43:58.147" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8369" PostId="2990" Score="5" Text="+1. I would offer one possible improvement: *c* for *κ* is not just vaguely &quot;classical&quot; but is a relic of transliteration of Greek ***into Latin**,* the alphabet for which lacks the apter letter *k.* Using *c* instead did not alter or distort pronunciation in classical Latin; it was only later Latin pronunciation that softened the *c* when followed by *e, i,* or *y.*" CreationDate="2017-09-22T22:52:47.653" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8373" PostId="2990" Score="0" Text="@BrianDonovan I added a little along those lines, though I didn't want to say too much as I know next to nothing about Latin." CreationDate="2017-09-22T23:12:16.557" UserId="4191" />
  <row Id="8383" PostId="2999" Score="0" Text="If you guys can help, there is an open question about &quot;Psyche's Journey&quot; which is portraid as the &quot;Journey of the soul.&quot; https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2853/what-is-the-symbolism-behind-psyches-tasks" CreationDate="2017-09-24T15:30:27.013" UserId="4093" />
  <row Id="8392" PostId="3000" Score="1" Text="I'm not sure the male journey is entirely without assistance assistance.  Gilgamesh needed Enkidu.  Odysseus would never have survived without the patronage of Athena, or even without assistance from mortal women such as [Nausicaa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausicaa).  I'd also caution against the idea that the soul requires an other--it's simply one paradigm.  The Buddhist saint may renounce the world in attaining enlightenment, a solitary pursuit (although it is, again, worth mentioning that Milarepa only attained this after his sister brought him some food and drink.)" CreationDate="2017-09-25T21:12:41.137" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8404" PostId="3000" Score="0" Text="But the process of enlightnment is more about connecting not only to another being, but &quot;all&quot; beings. It is some kind of advanced compassion and connection twoards all that exists. And true, the male journey can be entirely without assistance as well, I was just considering Hero's Journey by Campbell in which one of the steps is &quot;Tests, enemies and allies&quot; who may help him reach the Elixir. But yes, he can." CreationDate="2017-09-26T11:09:38.513" UserId="4093" />
  <row Id="8394" PostId="3004" Score="0" Text="Driving up the road, I was wondering about the 'arrow' separating the eyes. In Hebrew, &quot;aph&quot; is anger; it is also 'nose'.  Job 41:18 - &quot;By his neesings (sneezings) a light doth shine, and his eyes [are] like the eyelids of the morning.:  From my 'curious quote file' - &quot;An inch in a man's nose is much.&quot; HG Bohn.  &quot;It is a golden maxim to cultivate the garden for the nose, and the eyes will take care of themselves.&quot; Robt. L. Stevenson. Makes ya wonder if there's correlation between old statues missing noses, eh?" CreationDate="2017-09-25T23:42:21.660" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="12095" PostId="3010" Score="0" Text="The author of Revelation likens the plight of the Church with that of the Holy Family, as described in the Gospels." CreationDate="2019-12-04T06:46:24.297" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="8408" PostId="3011" Score="1" Text="I think Gilgamesh back then was already abusing the women. Therefore, he might as well send an ordinary woman and somehow make her sleep with Enkidu to attract him to their lives. So, what I am trying to say is there has to be something special about the harlots so that only one of them could perform this deed." CreationDate="2017-09-28T12:21:28.883" UserId="4182" />
  <row Id="8409" PostId="3012" Score="3" Text="I actually sensed that the prostitutes of that time  were priestesses of some sort since they were living in the temples of Ishtar." CreationDate="2017-09-28T12:52:01.203" UserId="4182" />
  <row Id="16008" PostId="3012" Score="0" Text="From the linked article: &quot;However, no certain evidence has survived to prove that sexual intercourse was included, despite many popular descriptions of the habit.&quot;" CreationDate="2022-06-18T21:51:55.257" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="8414" PostId="3014" Score="0" Text="Yep, that was it!" CreationDate="2017-09-28T18:21:08.750" UserId="4221" />
  <row Id="8425" PostId="3015" Score="0" Text="I enjoyed both answers, but I hadn't heard about the contemporary meaning given to this part of Revelations. Interesting." CreationDate="2017-10-01T16:06:04.290" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8427" PostId="3015" Score="1" Text="@solsdottir I added a link to Matthew Henry's Commentary on it, and I may write more about older theories when I get the time to do it. Contemporary meanings would be interesting. Although according to [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_of_the_Apocalypse), the &quot;ancient church&quot; considered her to be Mary" CreationDate="2017-10-03T14:40:16.360" UserId="3947" />
  <row Id="8418" PostId="3016" Score="0" Text="Thanks, @Gibet. I have changed *priestess* to *sacred functionary.*" CreationDate="2017-09-29T13:49:06.230" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8440" PostId="3017" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I was hoping you would answer this." CreationDate="2017-10-09T07:25:15.330" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="8449" PostId="3017" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Do you mean [this book](https://books.google.de/books?id=orSMAQAACAAJ&amp;source=gbs_ViewAPI&amp;redir_esc=y) ?" CreationDate="2017-10-10T08:42:32.983" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="11761" PostId="3019" Score="0" Text="I read somewhere that she conquered helheim so she more than likely gave all of those people that loki had as help but still didn't get involved, I assume she's as cunning as her father." CreationDate="2019-07-28T17:08:11.050" UserId="6244" />
  <row Id="12033" PostId="3019" Score="0" Text="I think that hel does die in Ragnarok because Baldur and hod come back from the underworld." CreationDate="2019-10-23T21:46:27.427" UserId="6439" />
  <row Id="8423" PostId="3021" Score="1" Text="awww, sadface..." CreationDate="2017-10-01T12:52:32.540" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="8429" PostId="3027" Score="1" Text="Greek mythology has many stories of the birth of gods. Just about all the major ones (Zeus, Aphrodite, Apollo, etc.) have some sort of origin story, though they tend to age differently, if at all. (Apollo becomes an adult just four days after his birth in one story.)" CreationDate="2017-10-03T19:06:28.493" UserDisplayName="user1079" />
  <row Id="8430" PostId="3027" Score="0" Text="Great question, and welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-10-03T23:25:33.033" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8445" PostId="3028" Score="2" Text="Probably a cross-site dup with https://scifi.stackexchange.com/a/17394/4918 &quot;Which piece of fiction first showed vampires destroyed by sunlight?&quot;" CreationDate="2017-10-09T13:39:28.283" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8442" PostId="3038" Score="0" Text="Is your question about the Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove? Weren't they Chinese? Could you please clarify?" CreationDate="2017-10-09T08:09:49.187" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="15973" PostId="3041" Score="0" Text="The second link is now dead. Here's an archived copy. https://web.archive.org/web/20200120013832/http://navajolegends.org/navajo-skinwalker-legend/" CreationDate="2022-05-23T21:08:29.137" UserId="9250" />
  <row Id="8444" PostId="3042" Score="0" Text="AFAIR, both Zeus' thunderbolts and Poseidon's trident were made by cyclopses. So I doubt that'll be the case for these specific situations but Athena's situation is indeed interesting." CreationDate="2017-10-09T11:51:22.777" UserId="3639" />
  <row Id="10180" PostId="3042" Score="1" Text="@echonax I think you're correct that they were created by titans to assist in the battle against cronos, by which the titans hoped to receive freedom. Still, I think even if the weapons of Zeus and Poseidon weren't crafted by their own, this doesn't necessarily mean that they can't be immune to them. Zeus is not only wielder, but master of thunder. To strike thunder against the master of thunder is to splash water against the sea! Still, this is of course merely speculation." CreationDate="2018-03-17T22:38:16.070" UserId="3491" />
  <row Id="10181" PostId="3042" Score="0" Text="However, I think that unless there is any known text or tale that describes 'theft' of personal weapons of the gods (the fire stolen by Prometheus wasn't a 'personal weapon', but perhaps it tells something), this question is unanswerable. Given that this question hasn't been answered, I guess such a tale doesn't exists or is hard to find. Would so speculation, backed by texts making claims on the nature of the gods do for an answer? In that case, I might be able do something." CreationDate="2018-03-17T22:39:46.477" UserId="3491" />
  <row Id="10983" PostId="3042" Score="0" Text="There's an interpretation of some of the language surrounding Ragnarök that [Freyr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freyr) is slain by [his own sword](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_of_Freyr), the one he gave up for the hand of the giantess [Gerðr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerðr). You've tagged this [tag:greek] so it's unclear if you'll accept this as an answer." CreationDate="2018-10-30T23:22:33.987" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10412" PostId="3043" Score="2" Text="I think this might be circular reasoning: The link of vampires to porphyria is partly based on vampires' mythical sun-sensitivity." CreationDate="2018-04-21T09:35:17.367" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11493" PostId="3045" Score="0" Text="I had to research Jiangshi and although the early ones are relatively weak, they grow in power the longer they exist and more Qi (lifeforce) they consume. At about the third iteration in power (hopping Jiangshi) or fourth (flying jiangshi) they stop being afraid of sunlight. When they become Ba (level 5), they are almost unstoppable demonic beings." CreationDate="2019-04-17T19:05:16.340" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="8447" PostId="3046" Score="1" Text="I'm not sure but there are connections between Krishna and Hercules" CreationDate="2017-10-10T06:08:00.153" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="8448" PostId="3046" Score="1" Text="Georges Dumezil's work is the obvious place to start looking for an answer." CreationDate="2017-10-10T08:33:00.443" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="8486" PostId="3046" Score="0" Text="In fact any parallels already are speculation. It's possible to find parallels between Gospel and ancient myths. But no proofs." CreationDate="2017-10-15T19:35:36.297" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="16349" PostId="3046" Score="0" Text="I note we have a stelae where someone from India recorded offering sacrifice to Krshna -- whom the Greeks call Pan.  (But those interpretations were notoriously loose)" CreationDate="2023-04-29T00:29:38.070" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="8455" PostId="3049" Score="3" Text="Great question.  My general feeling is that it's because their stories and deeds are the most fun and entertaining.  Achilles has glory as the greatest warrior, but Odysseus seems much more beloved of the people. :)" CreationDate="2017-10-11T18:56:29.537" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8458" PostId="3049" Score="2" Text="@DukeZhou I think the trickster's stronger asset is their unpredictability. Most other characters are bound by their moralities. It's not hard to predict what they'll do next. The trickster, on the other hand, can switch from hero to villain on a whim." CreationDate="2017-10-12T08:36:27.263" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8464" PostId="3049" Score="1" Text="I agree 100%.  Unpredictability of a character has tremendous utility value from a narrative perspective." CreationDate="2017-10-12T15:46:12.447" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8465" PostId="3050" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I was torn on including the Humbaba reference because the text was lost for so many thousands of years.  But then I thought maybe it's worth a mention b/c it comes up on some of the dragon wikis, and even though the text was lost, certain ideas could have persisted in the &quot;collective unconscious&quot;." CreationDate="2017-10-12T16:03:38.357" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8469" PostId="3050" Score="0" Text="@Gibet All good points.  (I've always envisioned Humbaba as anthropomorphic, but it's been a while since I looked closely at the texts--I was actually a little surprised to find the dragon association, so thanks for validating.)  I've also added a note on Tiamat, of interest because she is an aquatic deity." CreationDate="2017-10-13T16:50:49.380" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8459" PostId="3052" Score="1" Text="Epic of Gilgamesh seems to be having darken Ishtar as it's target. So, it's obviously done to show Ishtar as goddess, that people do not want connect (which can't be true really since she had many worshippers and it seems that Epic of Gilgamesh hadn't change it much)." CreationDate="2017-10-12T08:52:31.690" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="8487" PostId="3059" Score="1" Text="@Gibet This is a fair summary of the account of the story given in Pseudo-Apollodorus Bibliotheca (although Hermes wasn't alone in helping Zeus, Aegipan is also mentioned). This is by no means a stellar answer, but it does explain why Zeus didn't flee with the rest; he was immobilised by Typhon." CreationDate="2017-10-15T19:37:05.940" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8492" PostId="3059" Score="0" Text="@yannis, but it isn't canonical variant, is it?" CreationDate="2017-10-16T08:20:31.097" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="8493" PostId="3059" Score="0" Text="To be honest, I'm not sure why any of the versions of the story would be considered canonical @rus9384. You've mentioned Hesiod, but the more elaborate descriptions of Typhon, for example, come from Dionysiaca - a Hellenistic epic written a millennium after Hesiod." CreationDate="2017-10-16T09:03:01.640" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8494" PostId="3059" Score="0" Text="@yannis, usually older means closer to original, however, older is also usually less complete. Such a dichotomy." CreationDate="2017-10-16T09:09:56.927" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="8495" PostId="3059" Score="2" Text="@rus9384 What original? These weren't static stories, they changed over time, sometimes dramatically." CreationDate="2017-10-16T09:11:52.493" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8496" PostId="3059" Score="0" Text="@yannis, any story has been spoken by some particular person and was popularised later. Many tales have been changed over time, but the oldest versions are more interesting to study." CreationDate="2017-10-16T09:15:09.800" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="8497" PostId="3059" Score="0" Text="@rus9384 I don't disagree. However, that doesn't mean the later versions aren't also interesting or worth studying. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think this is a great answer. And perhaps not even a good one. What I am saying, though, is that being focused on a later variant of the story is the least of its problems." CreationDate="2017-10-16T09:17:32.867" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8501" PostId="3063" Score="0" Text="The first place to search for anything like that is Ovid." CreationDate="2017-10-17T01:11:01.720" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8503" PostId="3063" Score="1" Text="I tried a Perseus search (English) for &quot;deer/hart/hind/roe&quot; in Ovid's *Metamorphoses* and Apollodorus, both, and found no such tale." CreationDate="2017-10-17T19:28:30.890" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8509" PostId="3063" Score="0" Text="Not as far as I know *(but he probably did get around to it as some point;)*" CreationDate="2017-10-18T20:59:17.553" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8502" PostId="3068" Score="0" Text="It is purely american, so unlikely to be pagan." CreationDate="2017-10-17T12:07:40.317" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="8499" PostId="3069" Score="0" Text="Why aren't you posting an answer @Gibet? Comments are not meant for answers (see: [When shouldn't I comment?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/comment))" CreationDate="2017-10-16T13:22:49.707" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8510" PostId="3069" Score="2" Text="I'm with Yannis. I think Nu and Nanuet are as close as you're going to get. Your point about the difference in geography between Egypt and Greece is good too. Make it an answer." CreationDate="2017-10-18T21:02:53.697" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="10407" PostId="3071" Score="0" Text="[o](http://www.pbs.org/empires/thegreeks/background/19a_p1.html), so there would not have been any doubt to the Greeks that their male gods would have sex with men." CreationDate="2018-04-19T20:22:59.733" UserId="4966" />
  <row Id="8508" PostId="3072" Score="3" Text="In support of this answer, homoeroticism was normalized in Ancient Greece, and it wouldn't have been shocking if Orion was so inclined." CreationDate="2017-10-18T20:58:26.790" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8512" PostId="3073" Score="0" Text="Is it even a real lake? If so, what's it's name?" CreationDate="2017-10-19T17:46:30.610" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8513" PostId="3073" Score="0" Text="@Spencer Good question. The lake is fictional, although some scenes were filmed at Moke Lake, near Queenstown. Perhaps if a real legend inspired this, it would be from the area. Updated the question." CreationDate="2017-10-19T20:16:40.023" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10357" PostId="3074" Score="0" Text="While the post is quite interesting, the cause of Lord Krishna's death was far from being random. The arrow was a result of a curse, which was karma taking it's course due to actions of Lord Ram, i.e, Lord Krishna in previous birth. See [this](https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/2931/is-there-any-story-behind-lord-krishnas-death)" CreationDate="2018-04-10T16:35:04.493" UserId="3238" />
  <row Id="10368" PostId="3074" Score="0" Text="@IshanSingh I know that. One of his relatives gave birth to a metal rod from his thigh because of a curse, and it all progressed from there." CreationDate="2018-04-11T12:48:24.933" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="8507" PostId="3076" Score="0" Text="Could you please provide a citation for the quoted Orphic Hymn.  (I found an online [source at Theoi, but the translation is different](http://www.theoi.com/Text/OrphicHymns1.html#24).)   Could you also provide a source of Proteus being definitively identified with Hades?  I don't mind your making a connections, but I'm not aware of prior scholarship on Hades/Proteus." CreationDate="2017-10-18T20:54:15.033" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8511" PostId="3076" Score="2" Text="I've modified the answer accordingly, providing an alternative source, and translating it, hopefully without the defects in &quot;Translation recycling&quot;." CreationDate="2017-10-19T04:35:28.577" UserId="3373" />
  <row Id="8514" PostId="3078" Score="1" Text="A chariot pulled by cats is peculiar, indeed. I don't think any cats larger than lynxes are (or were) endemic to Scandinavia.  One possibility I remember reading somewhere is that the word used for Frejya's cats could also mean bears." CreationDate="2017-10-19T22:01:08.963" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8515" PostId="3078" Score="3" Text="They might have been [Norwegian Forest cats](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Forest_cat) or some wild ancestor thereof, a relatively large breed of cats that appeared in Norway via interbreeding of foreign and local cats a couple of centuries before Snorri's writings." CreationDate="2017-10-20T04:21:29.380" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8528" PostId="3083" Score="1" Text="This is the better answer, because it contains the linguistic context." CreationDate="2017-10-22T17:17:27.310" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8536" PostId="3083" Score="0" Text="There has been some recent discussion on the fuzziness of words for animals in Ancient Greek, which makes the point about *fress* particularly interesting.  Does Freyja have any other associations with bears?" CreationDate="2017-10-23T21:59:08.943" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8537" PostId="3083" Score="1" Text="Boars yes, bears no." CreationDate="2017-10-24T00:51:24.513" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8558" PostId="3083" Score="0" Text="I just saw this on Facebook, and I thought I would throw it in - it's a [discussion of the linguistics](https://brutenorse.blogspot.ca/2017/08/the-word-cat-didnt-always-mean-cat.html?spref=fb) of the Old Norse word for cat, and adds that the European wildcat died out during the Norse Bronze Age." CreationDate="2017-10-27T00:25:56.937" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="13663" PostId="3083" Score="1" Text="I will merely add the observation that Norse myths tend to be iffy about relative sizes.  In one and the same tale, a giant's glove seems to be a great hall to gods, who use the thumb as a sleeping chamber before learning it's a glove, and the same gods can sit at the table with giants and use their utensils without trouble." CreationDate="2020-07-12T14:47:44.843" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="8520" PostId="3084" Score="1" Text="We don't even know when Jesus was born though..." CreationDate="2017-10-21T21:26:16.420" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8521" PostId="3084" Score="0" Text="There are two traditions for his birth. Dan Brown uses the date December 25th(Christmas) and another source uses the less popular date of January 6th. Basically, around the time of the winter solstice." CreationDate="2017-10-21T21:31:32.587" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8522" PostId="3084" Score="2" Text="That's not when Jesus was born though, but sure. Most people say it was in spring" CreationDate="2017-10-21T21:39:30.423" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8523" PostId="3084" Score="1" Text="The December &quot;birthday&quot; was - as far as I'm aware - just an adoption of the traditional winter solstice commemoration. In a similar fashion Dan Brown interprets stuff freely to create connections and fake facts to tie everything together. It's probably part of the fascination, but historically many things are just completely made up." CreationDate="2017-10-22T06:01:53.473" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="8524" PostId="3084" Score="0" Text="The December birthday is indeed suspect, I'm not aware of any Greek source that gives a specific date or month for Dionysus birth. Let's find out where Dan Brown got the idea from: [Do Mithras, Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus share a December 25 birthday?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/3085/57)." CreationDate="2017-10-22T08:59:16.357" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8529" PostId="3084" Score="0" Text="http://www.truthbeknown.com/dionysus.html Might find this website interesting" CreationDate="2017-10-22T22:23:28.643" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8547" PostId="3084" Score="0" Text="Symbolically, the birthday thing depends on how you look at it.  The vernal equinox is the obvious time for divine birth, as it heralds the growing season.  But with the dying/resurrected gods, you see the birthday switching to the winter solstice, when when &quot;light starts returning to the world&quot; (i.e. the days get longer.)  The summer solstice is a good time for death, when the light goes away (days get shorter), but because Jesus' death involves resurrection, Easter is celebrated around the vernal equinox.  *(PS- props for a Dan Brown question;)*" CreationDate="2017-10-25T16:22:51.250" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8527" PostId="3085" Score="2" Text="Just remember that Dan Brown was writing a novel, not a documentary. Revoking your suspension of disbelief an re-instituting Occam's Razor is usually a good start.  It could just be that he wrote the character Teabing as delusionally conflating things or just making stuff up." CreationDate="2017-10-22T15:55:59.243" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8535" PostId="3085" Score="0" Text="The Christians were all about replacing pagan things like all saints day to distract people from samhain and get them to convert. It's totally possible that this is true as a little trick to get people to convert." CreationDate="2017-10-23T10:56:26.130" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="8539" PostId="3085" Score="0" Text="See [Dan Browned](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DanBrowned)" CreationDate="2017-10-24T07:59:28.277" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="8538" PostId="3090" Score="4" Text="Please post the relevant details here.  Answers consisting of just links are not particularly helpful and are liable to be deleted." CreationDate="2017-10-24T07:51:55.320" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="8553" PostId="3090" Score="0" Text="It's a solid argument, and although the article is not scholarly, the Ovid quote is supports the thesis.  I'd recommend including that quote in your answer here, so it's not just a link, and possibly synopsizing the article." CreationDate="2017-10-26T17:46:33.080" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8541" PostId="3091" Score="0" Text="In this case, I think we can chalk it up to [Atropos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropos) being very busy with her shears." CreationDate="2017-10-25T02:35:41.170" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8543" PostId="3091" Score="2" Text="I'm sure there were several elements at play here — Hector could have been killed by someone else, robbing Achilles of his revenge; Patroclus's shade would wander the earth unavenged; Achilles was blinded by grief over the death of his lover; the proverb &quot;Revenge is a dish best served cold&quot; hadn't been coined yet because there was no Sicily; testosterone poisoning; It Was In The Script." CreationDate="2017-10-25T10:34:45.837" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="8560" PostId="3091" Score="1" Text="I've updated my answer to include a comparison of the fame of Diomedes vs. Achilles, and context provided by the similar honor/shame culture of Japanese Bushido to shed light on warrior rationale.  You should find the amendations to be of some interest." CreationDate="2017-10-27T17:52:23.753" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8546" PostId="3092" Score="1" Text="Is it the [Khoiak festivals](https://www.dragonstrike.com/egypt/ecalendar.htm) that you're referring to?" CreationDate="2017-10-25T14:52:26.113" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8557" PostId="3092" Score="0" Text="I know, I just wanted you to expand on it a bit. I hadn't thought of the Djed/Christmas tree connection before. Interesting." CreationDate="2017-10-26T22:31:05.830" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8561" PostId="3094" Score="1" Text="I recall that in the [Books of Magic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Books_of_Magic#On_the_road), Molly goes to a hilltop and lays out a doll-sized tea set and serves tea to attract a faerie.  (It's not for the purposes of seduction, as I recall, but she is successful. Worth noting it does not turn out well for her, which is the norm for humans in human/faerie interactions.)" CreationDate="2017-10-27T18:24:49.823" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8562" PostId="3094" Score="0" Text="That's nice, and thank you, @DukeZhou, alas, the Books of Magic are not folklore, if I understand correctly." CreationDate="2017-10-27T18:32:36.843" UserDisplayName="user4301" />
  <row Id="8563" PostId="3094" Score="1" Text="Definitely modern literature, but crafted by highly insightful writers.  Great question, btw!  Hope you find a referent from traditional folklore." CreationDate="2017-10-27T18:41:19.777" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8559" PostId="3095" Score="2" Text="You will have to include the relevant answer here, at least some cite or reference." CreationDate="2017-10-27T17:32:02.767" UserId="51" />
  <row Id="8578" PostId="3096" Score="2" Text="Maybe Rumpelstiltskin is a republican who wants to end the monarchy by cutting the line of succession? ;)" CreationDate="2017-10-30T09:21:34.520" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="14055" PostId="3096" Score="0" Text="I've read some tales,such as Tam Lind, that say that every 7 years the faeries have to pay a tithe to hell of 7 human souls. So it could have something to do with that. Though personally I prefer the theory that he wanted companionship." CreationDate="2020-11-27T02:00:03.863" UserId="7446" />
  <row Id="8564" PostId="3097" Score="1" Text="This may qualify as folklore...  There is some discussion of quartz crystals in medieval alchemical literature, but alas that source material is not available online so far as I know.  My guess would be either (1) they wanted to heat the crystal up to increase its powers, or (2) they were hoping the crystal would improve the functioning of the heating system.  Quartz is regarded for its &quot;purity&quot;, being highly translucent (i.e. a physical object that interacts with light.)  Tolkien's mythology involves light being held in crystals, known as [simirils](http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Silmarils)" CreationDate="2017-10-27T21:26:09.713" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8566" PostId="3097" Score="0" Text="A picture of the actual crystal would improve this question." CreationDate="2017-10-28T21:24:56.450" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8574" PostId="3097" Score="0" Text="I'll see what i can do. I'm down with stomach flu atm so  It will take a few days before I can go out again." CreationDate="2017-10-29T20:01:07.393" UserId="4306" />
  <row Id="8778" PostId="3097" Score="0" Text="I believe mountain quartz to be of milky white appearance depending on its purity and is opaque compared to the shaped and polished clear crystal that is more commercial in popular culture" CreationDate="2018-01-08T00:14:00.783" UserId="4587" />
  <row Id="8576" PostId="3099" Score="1" Text="This is probably not helpful, but many Japanese prefectures publish their own anthologies of traditional local myths, often still available from Amazon.co.jp. They're unfortunately in Japanese." CreationDate="2017-10-30T03:33:41.197" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8582" PostId="3099" Score="0" Text="Well maybe someday, as I'm also learning how to read japanese, but I'm not quite there yet ^^" CreationDate="2017-10-30T21:19:56.210" UserId="4307" />
  <row Id="8591" PostId="3099" Score="0" Text="It's an older site (and maybe not as in depth as you'd like), but I use http://eos.kokugakuin.ac.jp/modules/xwords/category.php?categoryID=4&amp;start=0" CreationDate="2017-11-01T14:43:07.097" UserId="2963" />
  <row Id="8592" PostId="3099" Score="0" Text="There's also a video game for the PS2, PS3, PS4, and Wii called Ōkami that, while not entirely true to some versions of a wide variety myths, is still a pretty good intro to Japanese mythology and a fun, humorous one at that." CreationDate="2017-11-01T14:45:55.407" UserId="2963" />
  <row Id="8593" PostId="3099" Score="0" Text="Oh I really loved Okami, that's actually what introduced me to japanese mythology and got me interested in it, that and the Persona series . I'll check out your link, although it's an encyclopedia it does seem to give pointers to lots of stories" CreationDate="2017-11-01T22:07:18.010" UserId="4307" />
  <row Id="8570" PostId="3103" Score="1" Text="This all sounds very interesting. Do you think it would be possible to point us to an ancient Greek source discussing Pricus?" CreationDate="2017-10-29T16:14:12.297" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10376" PostId="3103" Score="0" Text="@yannis I think this is the place I found my info. http://www.gods-and-monsters.com/capricorn-mythology.html" CreationDate="2018-04-13T17:35:01.493" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8573" PostId="3104" Score="0" Text="[link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin) On Odin's page, it says he was called the wanderer. Hermes is the Greek god of travel. I see now." CreationDate="2017-10-29T16:52:06.510" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8583" PostId="3106" Score="1" Text="The god Mercury (or his German counterpart) was popular among the Romanized Germans, under names like Mercurius Rex and Mercury + name of tribe/locality. It's always been assumed that this German Mercury was Woden, especially since the Romans would never have called Mercury &quot;Rex&quot;, or king. In later times, the Germans named their midweek Woden's day, while in Latin it's Mercury's day. (As in modern French, mercredi.) I'm getting a lot of this from Michael Enright [(his thesis)](https://www.scribd.com/doc/49111679/Lady-With-a-Mead-Cup) and Rudolf Simek's dictionary of norse myth." CreationDate="2017-10-31T01:04:23.153" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="8575" PostId="3109" Score="0" Text="Sorry for the short answer. Most of what I know of the Amazons is the etymology dispute of the name." CreationDate="2017-10-29T23:42:34.197" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8586" PostId="3109" Score="3" Text="Short answers are fine, but they ought to be backed by sources." CreationDate="2017-10-31T04:46:11.363" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14225" PostId="3109" Score="0" Text="To be fair, children betraying/attacking their parents is hardly unheard of in Greek mythology." CreationDate="2021-02-19T22:14:58.370" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="8581" PostId="3112" Score="0" Text="Is there a difference between quartz and mountain crystals or is it 2 names for the same thing? It was located near the front window on the bottom floor." CreationDate="2017-10-30T18:09:57.363" UserId="4306" />
  <row Id="8588" PostId="3112" Score="0" Text="I've never heard the expression *Mountain Crystal*.  I would assume it is just a name for natural quartz." CreationDate="2017-10-31T08:36:49.593" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="8585" PostId="3114" Score="3" Text="Can you expand further what you mean by &quot;with crossroads?&quot;" CreationDate="2017-10-31T04:45:23.120" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="8589" PostId="3114" Score="0" Text="Delectable question!  Hecate is definitely a &quot;dark&quot; goddess, associated with witchcraft. Lot of material so it may take me some time to answer." CreationDate="2017-10-31T18:07:57.967" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16230" PostId="3114" Score="0" Text="Crossroads are associated to the supernatural. It would not surprise me if this is an ancient idea (Hecate) that was later considered pagan and thus devil related." CreationDate="2022-12-31T18:28:04.277" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="8595" PostId="3118" Score="1" Text="Many Therevadan Buddhists have believed something close to this, though it can be hard to pin down what they're saying because they have subtle ideas about what the self is. There are also several polytheistic mythologies with a finite afterlife (Norse), an afterlife that can be thrown into jeopardy (Egyptians), or no afterlife at all. I've also read that some Jewish sects did not believe in any kind of resurrection, and finally, depending on what you consider to be religion, many Greek and Indian philosophers practiced a pre-scientific materialism." CreationDate="2017-11-02T20:33:43.033" UserId="4171" />
  <row Id="8596" PostId="3118" Score="0" Text="I'd qualify this to say that most &quot;new&quot; religions (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc.) focus on personal redemption, but this was not the focal point of earlier, pagan traditions, which were much more concerned with cycles of generation, specifically in regard to agricultural cycles." CreationDate="2017-11-03T17:32:26.527" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8620" PostId="3118" Score="0" Text="I'd think that afterlife would be a primary category by which people would know whether or not to classify a given set of beliefs as religion or not." CreationDate="2017-11-11T05:19:30.740" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="14368" PostId="3118" Score="0" Text="Roman era pagans certainly did not make it central.  There are writers discussing what religion buys you without even mentioning the afterlife." CreationDate="2021-04-11T21:44:23.613" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="8600" PostId="3127" Score="2" Text="sounds more like Loki: https://norse-mythology.org/tales/loki-bound/" CreationDate="2017-11-05T13:41:25.127" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="8626" PostId="3127" Score="0" Text="I think it' a good question in terms of clearing up faulty information posted by unreliable, online sources, thus useful.  Posts like this demonstrate why it's incumbent on answerers to use vetted sources, ideally academic." CreationDate="2017-11-14T23:27:01.870" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8598" PostId="3129" Score="3" Text="Maenads come to mind." CreationDate="2017-11-05T12:51:16.640" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="8618" PostId="3129" Score="1" Text="Can you point out where you got Gelos and Agathodaemon from?" CreationDate="2017-11-09T02:08:13.927" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="8619" PostId="3129" Score="2" Text="@C.M.Weimer I just linked them and added some detail." CreationDate="2017-11-09T20:42:10.657" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8621" PostId="3129" Score="0" Text="Agathodaemon, spirit of vineyards(grape baring vines)&#xA;&#xA;Gelos- According to Philostratus the Elder, he was believed to enter the retinue of Dionysus alongside Comus&#xA;&#xA;[Agatho](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agathodaemon)&#xA;[Gelos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelos_(mythology))" CreationDate="2017-11-11T22:21:11.380" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8614" PostId="3130" Score="1" Text="The emblem pictured by OP is part and product of the confusion between Hermes' wand and the staff of Asklepios. In ancient art, Hermes' wand is usually represented as featuring neither any snake nor any wing: e.g., [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus#/media/File:Lekythos_of_Hermes.jpg), though the same Wiki article captions [this picture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus#/media/File:Hermes_Ingenui_Pio-Clementino_Inv544.jpg) (with both snakes and wings) as of a Roman copy of a C5BC Greek original." CreationDate="2017-11-07T23:55:17.360" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8604" PostId="3131" Score="0" Text="Probably a better fit for History Stack Exchange. But TL;DR: probably neither, but rather the names in their own language. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_language" CreationDate="2017-11-05T22:53:08.203" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8616" PostId="3132" Score="0" Text="I seem to recall reading something about Hecabe/Hecate somewhere..." CreationDate="2017-11-08T22:06:46.403" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8617" PostId="3132" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Hecabe was turned into a dog companion of Hecate, but unless I'm mistaken, that was a Hellenistic development." CreationDate="2017-11-09T01:39:34.307" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="8625" PostId="3145" Score="0" Text="Nice one.  I took the liberty of linking this to one of the Apollodorus source material." CreationDate="2017-11-14T22:41:43.660" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8623" PostId="3148" Score="2" Text="Sons of Kronos and Rhea, daughters of Kronos and Rhea, Graces, Gorgons, claimants of the Apple of Discord, Old Men of the Sea (Nereus, Phorkys, Proteus) . . . on Furies, I consider *Eumenides,* wherein they are a whole chorus, to be the Greek *locus classicus,* but if one goes by Virgil they are three too.  Then there seems to be some rather mysterious three-ness involving Hecate. But the concernancy, sir? Why do we wrap these triads in our more rawer breath?" CreationDate="2017-11-12T14:38:03.587" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8624" PostId="3148" Score="0" Text="Possibly you could massage this question to make it more directly answerable.  I think asking about triads in Greek mythology in general might be more acceptable to the general community." CreationDate="2017-11-14T21:47:48.363" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8627" PostId="3157" Score="1" Text="Closely related: [Why did Egyptian Gods have animal heads?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/18/why-did-egyptian-gods-have-animal-heads)" CreationDate="2017-11-17T04:17:37.970" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="8629" PostId="3158" Score="0" Text="This is broad.  Don't most religions have an omnipotent deity who, by definition, covers fire, water and everything else?" CreationDate="2017-11-17T11:03:10.850" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="8630" PostId="3158" Score="0" Text="Hmmm, I know it is... Will edit question so I clarify some stuff" CreationDate="2017-11-17T11:45:01.440" UserId="4360" />
  <row Id="8632" PostId="3158" Score="3" Text="The Basque [Eate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eate) and the Celtic [Grannus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grannus) might be close to what you are looking for." CreationDate="2017-11-17T12:28:04.840" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8634" PostId="3161" Score="0" Text="Agni is exclusively a fire god." CreationDate="2017-11-18T17:31:38.313" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="8645" PostId="3168" Score="1" Text="Almost nothing is known about Quirinus. He was associated with the myrtle." CreationDate="2017-11-22T21:27:31.670" UserId="534" />
  <row Id="15971" PostId="3169" Score="0" Text="I note that baboons are pretty &quot;dog-faced&quot; in themselves." CreationDate="2022-05-21T03:14:07.927" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="8651" PostId="3176" Score="0" Text="I've always been told that eating the liver of one's enemies will make one stronger--transferring the power of the fallen foe.  Never tried it, but the logic seems sound." CreationDate="2017-11-28T01:53:04.183" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8648" PostId="3177" Score="3" Text="Unlike gold or bronze, silver was known to be antibiotic since ancient times. I'm not sure if any such such connection has been made in literature, but silver's anti-monster utilities may well have been inspired by its medicinal properties. Garlic is likewise an antibiotic..." CreationDate="2017-11-27T11:44:25.620" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8650" PostId="3177" Score="1" Text="@Semaphore that's a great insight.  The antibacterial properties of silver are definitely a theme in Guillermo Del Toro's *Strain*, and I know first-hand he did a lot of serious research on vampires for that project." CreationDate="2017-11-28T01:50:18.473" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8652" PostId="3178" Score="1" Text="Basic [sympathetic magic](http://www.bartleby.com/196/5.html).  Good answer." CreationDate="2017-11-28T01:54:16.003" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8649" PostId="3179" Score="0" Text="There are numerous examples of mortals becoming immortal (see, for instance [&quot;How do people become immortal as per Taoism?&quot;](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/2022/2892) ), but fewer cases of the reverse.  I'm going to set my mind to this, and see what bubbles up.  Welcome to Mythology.  Great question!" CreationDate="2017-11-28T01:48:50.227" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8653" PostId="3179" Score="2" Text="Possible duplicate of [Are there any Greek myths of a god permanently turning into a mortal as punishment?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2193/are-there-any-greek-myths-of-a-god-permanently-turning-into-a-mortal-as-punishme)" CreationDate="2017-11-28T17:51:11.650" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="8655" PostId="3179" Score="0" Text="@バカです Answers part of question." CreationDate="2017-11-28T18:20:21.610" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="8657" PostId="3179" Score="0" Text="@MalayTheDynamo  I think your Harmonia answer from the other thread could be resurrected here! (Ideally, you should look to support the answer with the source material, as opposed to just Riordan though;)" CreationDate="2017-11-28T23:01:27.890" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8658" PostId="3179" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou I'll do that." CreationDate="2017-11-29T01:33:38.767" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="8659" PostId="3181" Score="1" Text="[Daedalus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daedalus#Innovator), but he's not known for treasure-making." CreationDate="2017-11-29T01:37:19.447" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8660" PostId="3181" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou He could be great if you can find a reference that he was working with metal too, making weapons or armor or metal goblets or ornaments, whether from bronze or silver and gold. I'm asking for metalworkers, not just any craftsman or artist." CreationDate="2017-11-29T02:02:55.647" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8663" PostId="3181" Score="0" Text="Would you consider the legend of [Archimedes burning of the Roman fleet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes#Heat_ray) by using mirror to generate a heat ray to be on topic?" CreationDate="2017-11-29T21:39:05.937" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8664" PostId="3182" Score="0" Text="Nice answer!  (I didn't want to edit, but the passage is from [Iliad 7.206](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0134%3Abook%3D7%3Acard%3D206))" CreationDate="2017-11-29T21:43:37.680" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8666" PostId="3182" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou I added the citation, but you should feel free to make such edits in general :)" CreationDate="2017-11-30T06:06:08.067" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8667" PostId="3182" Score="0" Text="Noted.  *(PS-thanks for leaving some room for me to post a secondary answer;)*" CreationDate="2017-11-30T19:50:13.857" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10195" PostId="3182" Score="0" Text="So, is it a lamb or a ram? You used both to describe the creature." CreationDate="2018-03-18T22:44:02.230" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10196" PostId="3182" Score="0" Text="@AndrewJohnson ...that's not contradictory." CreationDate="2018-03-18T23:18:40.560" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="10197" PostId="3182" Score="0" Text="So lamb and ram are interchangeable?" CreationDate="2018-03-19T02:32:03.383" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10198" PostId="3182" Score="1" Text="@AndrewJohnson Have you never heard of &quot;ram lambs&quot;? Rams could be lambs, though lambs are not all rams." CreationDate="2018-03-19T02:53:38.960" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="10202" PostId="3182" Score="0" Text="No, never heard of lamb ram. But I get it's one of those words. All titans are gods, but all gods are not titans. All primordials are gods but gods nor titans are primordials." CreationDate="2018-03-19T13:10:30.470" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8866" PostId="3185" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Why aren't you posting that as an answer???" CreationDate="2018-02-04T13:41:20.643" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="13607" PostId="3185" Score="0" Text="If you want to be 100% sure, check your closest copy of Pauly-Wissowa's article. (Your friendly Classics-literate librarian will know which encyclopedia I'm referring to.)" CreationDate="2020-06-08T15:28:54.097" UserId="6997" />
  <row Id="8665" PostId="3187" Score="0" Text="Also, you anyone thinks of any other Great Flood story not from Greek, Norse or Christianity, feel free to mention it." CreationDate="2017-11-30T01:34:53.850" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8668" PostId="3187" Score="0" Text="Atrahasis and Utanapishtim are two Near Eastern versions, almost identical to each other, and broadly similar to Noah. There is a theory the Near Eastern flood myths developed from an ancient memory of a huge flooding of the Black Sea region." CreationDate="2017-12-02T19:40:40.947" UserDisplayName="user1079" />
  <row Id="8676" PostId="3195" Score="2" Text="Not sure these counts as hybrids, but I think the water spirit vodyanoy is kind of half man, half frog, and the swamp monster bolotnik is half man, half.. frog/ape/bug? They're certainly not tidy hybrids like centaurs." CreationDate="2017-12-08T20:26:25.157" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8677" PostId="3199" Score="1" Text="I'm not sure there's any. Kitsune and tanuki are often seen as tricksters but calling them demons would be a bit harsh." CreationDate="2017-12-09T18:28:41.543" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8694" PostId="3200" Score="1" Text="One of the interesting things about the firearms of the time--musket and arquebus, is that you could load them with non-standard ammunition, such as rocks, buttons and nails." CreationDate="2017-12-13T18:55:46.727" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8679" PostId="3202" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore Most gods/goddesses are either good or bad.  Tricksters occupy a grey area, where they can be either.  Often you have tricksters like Prometheus, who is *only* an adversary to Zeus and *only* a benefactor to humanity, but is Prometheus good or bad?  (He goes against the will of god...)  Loki is an example of the trickster who is both benefactor (walls of Asgard, etc.) and nemesis (Ragnarok, etc.) The story of Sif's golden tresses is a great example of mischief leading to benefit—not only her golden headpiece, but the creation of other objects, including Odin's spear, Gungnir." CreationDate="2017-12-10T21:20:11.420" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8681" PostId="3202" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore I wouldn't say &quot;defining trait&quot;, but certainly a fundamental quality of all tricksters.  Good tengu/bad tengu would seem to qualify the race in general for trickster status, and they would seem to have that feeling, whether benefactors or nemeses.  Consider the &quot;treat or trick&quot; convention: in many stories, the Tengu will bless your efforts if provide them with a tasty tidbit, and cause mischief otherwise." CreationDate="2017-12-10T22:22:01.670" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8682" PostId="3202" Score="1" Text="Please include some example of these stories in the post, to demonstrate how tengus are tricksters. I think it would be a great improvement to your answer." CreationDate="2017-12-10T22:26:21.637" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="11497" PostId="3202" Score="1" Text="Many of the old koryu sword schools tell of Tengu teaching the first headmasters their craft. Particularly within the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu style (See the sword and the mind).  Tengu are often subtle references to the Iga Ninja" CreationDate="2019-04-17T19:22:00.447" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="8697" PostId="3203" Score="1" Text="Agents of fate is definitely a good call.  These were certainly omens, with hidden meaning." CreationDate="2017-12-14T20:15:53.493" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8691" PostId="3204" Score="0" Text="As Gibet says this is a fairly common, which makes this question rather broad. Consider asking for examples of this from specific traditions (by which I mean, *more specific than an entire continent*) instead, or for explanations for a particular case (e.g. garlic for vampires). Please feel encouraged to start multiple questions for different mythologies." CreationDate="2017-12-13T07:43:20.987" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8689" PostId="3205" Score="1" Text="Welcome to Mythology!  Thanks for contributing." CreationDate="2017-12-12T20:42:52.243" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8686" PostId="3206" Score="2" Text="I would say it comes from greek mythology, Lernaean Hydra was poisonous. But for example in song of nibelungs dragon blood grants invulnerability. It probably depends on what does the creature represent. If it is there to represent evil, then it is harmful. If it represents might and power, then it has positive effects." CreationDate="2017-12-12T17:15:23.807" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="8688" PostId="3206" Score="0" Text="Note that Chinese, and by extension Asian, dragons have absolutely nothing to do with European dragons. European dragons originate with Greek's." CreationDate="2017-12-12T19:37:34.003" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8690" PostId="3206" Score="0" Text="Interesting question.  Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2017-12-12T21:14:06.277" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8695" PostId="3206" Score="1" Text="I would like to add that Tolkien's *Farmer Giles of Ham* mentions that people eat dragon meat. This is described to be rare because dragons are hard to capture." CreationDate="2017-12-14T13:36:01.790" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8696" PostId="3206" Score="0" Text="Which reminds me of the dragon sickness in the Hobbit, where the dragon's very presence poisons treasure and makes greedy people become more greedy." CreationDate="2017-12-14T13:44:49.337" UserId="4527" />
  <row Id="8692" PostId="3207" Score="2" Text="+1 for comprehensive answer. I know there's a bit in *Liaozhai Zhiyi* where a Grand Historian says he once ate dragon meat found by digging under a certain location, but there's no implication of toxicity." CreationDate="2017-12-13T08:00:02.230" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8693" PostId="3207" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore thanks for that tidbit.  It's worth noting that idea is part of Chinese cuisine, where there is a real, edible animal that represents each animal in the Zodiac.  Since Snakes is actual snakemeat, dragon is typically fish.  (Advice I was given on how to properly order is that you want one dish per each animal;)" CreationDate="2017-12-13T15:55:55.413" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8698" PostId="3208" Score="0" Text="http://www.sacred-texts.com/pac/maui/maui06.htm?" CreationDate="2017-12-16T21:41:15.977" UserId="653" />
  <row Id="8699" PostId="3208" Score="0" Text="@DavidPostill - that seems to show that he did it to impress the woman. I don't see any mention of him seeing that humans were suffering." CreationDate="2017-12-16T21:42:14.550" UserId="2810" />
  <row Id="8700" PostId="3208" Score="0" Text="&quot;The plants lifted the sky inch by inch until men were able to crawl about between the heavens and the earth, and thus pass from place to place and visit one another.&quot; Surely having to crawl to travel is suffering? :)" CreationDate="2017-12-16T21:43:46.197" UserId="653" />
  <row Id="8701" PostId="3208" Score="0" Text="&quot;**Men tried to walk, but hit their heads, and in this confined space it was very hot.** A woman rewarded a man who lifted the sky to its proper place by giving him a drink of water from her cocoanut shell.&quot;" CreationDate="2017-12-16T21:45:01.710" UserId="653" />
  <row Id="8702" PostId="3208" Score="0" Text="@David - yep, that second quote shows that he did it just for the girl." CreationDate="2017-12-17T08:08:56.123" UserId="2810" />
  <row Id="8703" PostId="3208" Score="0" Text="I still can't see how that quote says he did it for the girl though. It doesn't actually mention his motivation." CreationDate="2017-12-17T09:49:13.710" UserId="653" />
  <row Id="8707" PostId="3212" Score="0" Text="Are you sure this is a myth? Do you have any indication as to the area where it came from?" CreationDate="2017-12-19T01:13:31.637" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8715" PostId="3212" Score="1" Text="You might be interested in this article: [The King in Disguise](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1259682?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents)" CreationDate="2017-12-22T18:49:09.993" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11088" PostId="3212" Score="0" Text="@Gibet all you have to do is copy paste. Stop being humble as if your comment isn't good enough for an answer &gt;;P" CreationDate="2018-11-27T09:02:38.157" UserId="614" />
  <row Id="8717" PostId="3214" Score="0" Text="Always assumed it was a god's intervention" CreationDate="2017-12-23T02:15:46.163" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8728" PostId="3214" Score="0" Text="I don't remember if this is explicitly mentioned anywhere, but I think it was Poseidon's doing as you find out he doesn't like Odysseus." CreationDate="2017-12-26T17:46:18.607" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="8729" PostId="3214" Score="0" Text="Plus, he crashed the raft." CreationDate="2017-12-26T18:11:08.870" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="8758" PostId="3216" Score="0" Text="What do you mean by &quot;Almost always male&quot; :D how do you know?" CreationDate="2018-01-04T21:24:31.850" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="8814" PostId="3216" Score="0" Text="Fascinating question! ☃️" CreationDate="2018-01-19T10:42:38.513" UserId="4631" />
  <row Id="8931" PostId="3216" Score="0" Text="@NuloenTheSeeker - Almost all the ones I have seen or heard of or read about have, where ascribed a gender, been male. Very occasionally people make couples, consisting of one male and one female. And - at least in my British English - the word &quot;snowman&quot; often carries a subsidiary stress on &quot;man&quot;, which points to maleness, unlike words such as &quot;policeman&quot; or &quot;fireman&quot; where the &quot;man&quot; tends to be unstressed and where the meaning can be generic." CreationDate="2018-02-16T19:34:38.283" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="8734" PostId="3221" Score="1" Text="Per the wikipedia [Theories of Origin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centaur#Theories_of_origin), the idea of Centaurs arising from early contact of non-riding culture with horse riding cultures is a pretty good supposition.  It's possible the use of lances by the riders result in the moniker, because these riders can pierce in the same way as the mighty bull with its horns.  But as Gibet notes, it's unlikely we'll never know for sure, so it's a matter of best guesses." CreationDate="2017-12-27T23:05:16.273" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8752" PostId="3222" Score="0" Text="The poem's invocation calls the last surviving companions of Odysseus fools (νήπιοι) for eating those kine, but it seems unjust to blame them; it is part of the gods' plan, as pronounced by Poseidon (9.528-35) and acknowledged as fate by Odysseus himself (11.139). Both Odysseus' sleep (12.339) and the flat impossibility of launching the single remaining ship against a persistent adverse wind (12.313-15) are explicitly said to be the gods' doing, and Eurylochos' preference for drowning (or whatever) later over starvation now is at least rational (12.342-43)." CreationDate="2018-01-01T16:31:24.100" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8756" PostId="3222" Score="0" Text="So all men died on home return except Odysseus. But it is not explicitly stated how many were there when the adventure started? Could we count all the lost men from the storyline?" CreationDate="2018-01-03T05:30:57.897" UserId="4572" />
  <row Id="8996" PostId="3222" Score="0" Text="@MarkokraM Unfortunately not." CreationDate="2018-02-23T19:57:39.870" UserId="4565" />
  <row Id="8737" PostId="3223" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Thank you, very interesting. [Here is written, that (quote) &quot;Malory's story was originally written in Middle English&quot;](http://www.encyclopedia.com/arts/culture-magazines/le-morte-darthur). So, it's not correct?" CreationDate="2017-12-28T19:22:48.543" UserId="3177" />
  <row Id="8740" PostId="3223" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Thank you, now I completely understand." CreationDate="2017-12-28T20:59:18.233" UserId="3177" />
  <row Id="11172" PostId="3223" Score="0" Text="For Pre-Galfridean material I highly recommend Concept's of Arthur, the author has published it for free online (http://www.arthuriana.co.uk/concepts/)" CreationDate="2019-01-04T19:05:56.023" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="11174" PostId="3223" Score="0" Text="@CharlieTizzardÓKevlahan Thank you very much, I will check it." CreationDate="2019-01-05T23:39:46.050" UserId="3177" />
  <row Id="8739" PostId="3224" Score="1" Text="This is going to be a rabbit-hole since there's no formal canon for &quot;new agey&quot; but I like questions on modern mythologies!" CreationDate="2017-12-28T20:58:03.433" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8749" PostId="3224" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Would this be classified as a mythology, or a cult? Are such questions on-topic?" CreationDate="2018-01-01T13:33:58.447" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="8751" PostId="3224" Score="0" Text="@MalayTheDynamo considering the moderator(Semaphore) created a `new-age`tag just for this question I believe it is considered to be borderline.  If multiple people express this question is not acceptable I am happy to delete it." CreationDate="2018-01-01T16:09:14.727" UserId="3302" />
  <row Id="8753" PostId="3224" Score="0" Text="@MalayTheDynamo I'd say mythology definitely, because the beliefs are widespread and varied.  But they are also almost certainly used in cults.  But don't forget, there were many ancient mystery cults." CreationDate="2018-01-02T21:42:49.343" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8736" PostId="3226" Score="3" Text="Great answer. The Wikipedia page about *[Norman conquest of England](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_England)* in 1066 is probably a good addition to another links, already mentioned in answer." CreationDate="2017-12-28T16:50:33.123" UserId="3177" />
  <row Id="8743" PostId="3227" Score="3" Text="Welcome to Mythology!  Interesting question.  You want to look at Hindu and Buddhist literature for the origins.  (The [wiki for third eye](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_eye) indicates dharmic traditions.)  The wiki also talks about modern mythologies relating the third eye to the pineal gland, which got a lot of traction.  More recently, the thalamus has been proposed.  I can't think of any examples offhand of the minds eye not being on the head, but there is an idea that the navel is the root of consciousness." CreationDate="2017-12-29T22:22:01.247" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8748" PostId="3227" Score="3" Text="@DukeZhou is correct. Hindu and Buddhist mythos, and some Tantric cults describe the human body as having seven (or six, I don't remember) points where our (spiritual) energy has the most concentration. It is believed that pressing/massages/acupuncture on or near these points is especially effective. The 'first' (or second) point, located on the forehead, is associated with intelligence, wisdom, and sight. This is similar to the 'Mind's Eye' concept." CreationDate="2018-01-01T13:32:39.027" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="10875" PostId="3227" Score="0" Text="[What Does it Mean to 'See With the Mind's Eye?'](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/what-does-it-mean-to-see-with-the-minds-eye/383345/)" CreationDate="2018-09-29T21:32:00.680" UserId="5406" />
  <row Id="8745" PostId="3230" Score="1" Text="Thank you for your answer, but according to my understanding *hermeneutics* entails all sorts of interpretation of scripture and is not specific to the belief I am looking for. Neither could I find a specific hermeneutic goes in the general direction." CreationDate="2017-12-30T10:15:14.043" UserId="873" />
  <row Id="8754" PostId="3230" Score="0" Text="@Wrzlprmft I'd say the hermeneutical conception implies that survival of a text, and continued social relevance, is a function of textual reinterpretability." CreationDate="2018-01-02T22:03:29.697" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8746" PostId="3233" Score="1" Text="Very instructive and +1 for giving me the references,thank you." CreationDate="2017-12-31T02:59:14.257" UserId="4564" />
  <row Id="8757" PostId="3236" Score="1" Text="This is a fascinating direction to go in. *Yeti* is from the Tibetan for &quot;rocky place&quot; and &quot;bear&quot;. The powerful phrase &quot;Abominable snowman&quot; was coined in English in 1921, but the Nepalese *himamānav* may be older and is variously translated as &quot;snowman&quot; and &quot;mountain man&quot;. Information on the history of usage of the latter term and the relationship between snow and mountain in Nepalese culture would be appreciated." CreationDate="2018-01-04T00:48:06.597" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10530" PostId="3237" Score="1" Text="I ran down the Aeneid passage in the answer and linked.  (You may be interested in the note on *Phoebi Triviaeque sacerdos* :)" CreationDate="2018-05-04T17:57:05.237" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8772" PostId="3243" Score="2" Text="Nice answer.  Feeling like it might be good to provide some translation of the Latin. *(I can muddle my way through, but I'm guessing not everyone can.  I've found the SE:Latin crowd to be very helpful in checking translations of short passages.  On the Aeneid passage, if you have the book and lines, I'm sure Perseus has the English.)*" CreationDate="2018-01-10T17:34:21.883" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8789" PostId="3244" Score="0" Text="This is a unique angle on the question, that leads to some interesting parallels beyond Dionysus/[Zagreus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagreus)." CreationDate="2018-01-12T19:26:41.160" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8811" PostId="3244" Score="0" Text="I've updated may answer, and included more information on Dionysus.  There are definitely parallels in terms of resurrection and the sacrament of wine, but the idea of self-sacrifice in Greek Mythology evolves.  Dionysus is only part of the story, and the parallels are predominantly corporeal.  Please see the links in my answer, and the conclusion.  Very good question!" CreationDate="2018-01-18T19:03:31.670" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8764" PostId="3247" Score="0" Text="Related: [How old were Paris and Achilles at the time of the Trojan War?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/1995/57)" CreationDate="2018-01-09T08:34:56.010" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8859" PostId="3248" Score="0" Text="Just by the names ( _black god_ and _white god_) I would guess, they were meant as counterparts, but I have no source or anything." CreationDate="2018-02-02T09:20:57.743" UserId="955" />
  <row Id="8760" PostId="3250" Score="0" Text="&quot;snow-white countenance&quot; does that refer to his skin? Or his clothes?" CreationDate="2018-01-08T21:59:59.493" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="8761" PostId="3250" Score="0" Text="@NuloenTheSeeker His face." CreationDate="2018-01-08T22:04:51.783" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8766" PostId="3251" Score="1" Text="Oberon and Titania are simply characters in a play.  I take it you are referring to fairies generally." CreationDate="2018-01-10T09:43:16.633" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="8767" PostId="3251" Score="1" Text="I referred to Titania and Oberon as I want to create characters in a fiction that mirror them, but in an Indian mythological setting.  I am therefore looking for comparative Hindu deities/mythological beings that could fulfill similar roles." CreationDate="2018-01-10T11:59:48.970" UserId="4599" />
  <row Id="8787" PostId="3251" Score="0" Text="I'd say Oberon &amp; Titania are not entirely invented, but based on folk tradition, translated through the filter of the greatest writer in English.  Shakespeare's plays constitute a mythologies of their own, and it's important to remember that the Ancient Greek Dramatists were hugely important commentators and contributors to that mythological canon." CreationDate="2018-01-12T18:59:59.310" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8788" PostId="3251" Score="0" Text="Are your characters good, wicked, or somewhere in-between?  The Shakespeare characters are fairly ambiguous." CreationDate="2018-01-12T19:01:18.870" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8790" PostId="3251" Score="0" Text="DukeZhou ... I would say that they are flawed individuals like most of us... neither wicked nor good, but capable of actions that could be perceived as both." CreationDate="2018-01-13T09:52:35.893" UserId="4599" />
  <row Id="8865" PostId="3251" Score="0" Text="@Maxine That is rather ambiguous. If you can give some sort of character sketch for both, I'd be happy to answer." CreationDate="2018-02-04T13:22:35.297" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="8897" PostId="3251" Score="0" Text="U could just create some" CreationDate="2018-02-11T03:09:48.647" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="8993" PostId="3251" Score="0" Text="There are Rambha,Urvashi and Menaka for Aosaras" CreationDate="2018-02-23T13:47:03.397" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="8994" PostId="3251" Score="0" Text="There are few for the Gandharvas too" CreationDate="2018-02-23T13:47:20.700" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="8836" PostId="3252" Score="2" Text="There are some spirits in Slavic mythology, I believe, (Czech republic) that &quot;steal&quot; sorrow from someone in mourning. But I don't know the name and I think I have ever seen a name, they are simply &quot;Běs&quot; which can sort of translate to demon." CreationDate="2018-01-26T22:44:45.503" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="8781" PostId="3253" Score="4" Text="are you interested in exactly four arms? The early part of the Greek creation myths famously had the Hundred-Handed Ones. http://www.theoi.com/Titan/Hekatonkheires.html" CreationDate="2018-01-11T11:16:23.150" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="8782" PostId="3253" Score="1" Text="There are also giants with six arms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gegenees" CreationDate="2018-01-11T12:37:42.280" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="8783" PostId="3253" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum Exactly four, yes." CreationDate="2018-01-11T16:16:06.497" UserId="4601" />
  <row Id="8832" PostId="3253" Score="0" Text="If this is for a literary endeavor, you may also want to explore the idea of [mythopoesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythopoeia), especially if you want to keep it in the Greek &amp; Roman context.  If you were to invent such a creature, you have two ways to go with the naming scheme. Literal, as in the case of [monopodes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopod_(creature)) (aka &quot;Shadefoots&quot;), or poetic, following Centaur (possibly &quot;Bull-piercers&quot;) connoting the Lapiths as early horsemen who hunted with spears." CreationDate="2018-01-25T19:48:44.000" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14586" PostId="3253" Score="0" Text="Does this answer your question? [Are there any four-armed creatures in any pantheon?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/3276/are-there-any-four-armed-creatures-in-any-pantheon)" CreationDate="2021-08-25T15:08:56.330" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="8784" PostId="3255" Score="0" Text="[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurytus_and_Cteatus) has them as &quot;Eurytus and Cteatus were twin brothers in Greek Mythology. Named the Moliones or Molionidai for their mother, Molione, they were the sons of either Actor or Poseidon and nephew of Augeas....&quot; Two heads and four legs is a bit too many body parts, for what I'm looking for." CreationDate="2018-01-11T22:02:39.553" UserId="4601" />
  <row Id="8786" PostId="3256" Score="1" Text="Sorry that I don't have time to go to direct sources, but I thought this general answer would at least serve as a helpful pointer for further research." CreationDate="2018-01-12T18:56:02.423" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8791" PostId="3258" Score="0" Text="Eh this is kinda broad. You can find some stuff here cause I dont want to write a full list answer. http://www.mythindex.com/greek-mythology/A/Amazones.html." CreationDate="2018-01-14T04:14:41.097" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="8792" PostId="3258" Score="0" Text="@bleh thanks for the site, I'll read it when I have time!" CreationDate="2018-01-14T15:15:25.743" UserId="4108" />
  <row Id="8797" PostId="3259" Score="2" Text="I think omniscience is something mainly associated with the Abrahamic the Dharmic faiths, not pagan folk mythologies. The stories involving gods even Zeus being tricked show this is not an inherent trait for gods in Greek mythologies. That said, it seems to me your follow-on questions are more history than mythology, and Greek paganism was not organised / exclusive to such an extent as having apostasy." CreationDate="2018-01-15T12:38:55.690" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8800" PostId="3259" Score="1" Text="Your linkage of &quot;an omniscient deity&quot; to a &quot;claim to be the definite truth&quot; seems really suspect. Can you support it?" CreationDate="2018-01-17T12:21:41.703" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8805" PostId="3259" Score="1" Text="Great question.  When speaking of knowing or objective truth, we think not of the [mythopoesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythopoeia#Etymology) of Greek mythology, but of Greek philosophy *(Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, etc.)*  Zeus may not have been omniscient of omnipotent, but he was powerful, clever, and knew an awful lot.  I'll certainly continue to consider the philosophical dimension, and see if that yields material for a formal answer." CreationDate="2018-01-17T18:41:13.517" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8801" PostId="3261" Score="0" Text="Trying to prove a negative." CreationDate="2018-01-17T13:23:02.440" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8809" PostId="3261" Score="0" Text="@Spencer how so?" CreationDate="2018-01-18T14:05:55.460" UserId="2762" />
  <row Id="8806" PostId="3262" Score="1" Text="Great answer.  It raises the point that the concept of omniscience existed, but was separated from god proper. (Zeus as [Dios/Διός](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D*dio%2Fs2) )" CreationDate="2018-01-17T18:43:43.900" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8804" PostId="3263" Score="0" Text="Great question.  I'd say that the Western concept of freedom arises from Ancient Greece!  *(See my answer)*" CreationDate="2018-01-17T18:20:46.563" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8810" PostId="3264" Score="0" Text="See also: [*Artemis*, Budin](https://books.google.com/books?id=NL0BCgAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PT172&amp;dq=artemis+eleutheria&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwiPj4X2guLYAhUNSt8KHdP5BWIQ6AEIRDAF#v=onepage&amp;q=artemis%20eleutheria&amp;f=false)" CreationDate="2018-01-18T17:26:09.777" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8808" PostId="3265" Score="1" Text="@AspentheArtistandAuthor The advantage to going to the source material is that instead of someone interpreting it for you, you can interpret the meanings and implications yourself.  Hopefully you will find these links useful too!" CreationDate="2018-01-17T22:00:20.707" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8822" PostId="3269" Score="0" Text="And what about the gods?" CreationDate="2018-01-23T10:55:14.643" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="8816" PostId="3270" Score="0" Text="Thanks for that!  Yes, I've seen scattered mention of &quot;elves&quot; but not the organized beliefs that I was led to expect (i.e. faeries, changelings, and the sort)." CreationDate="2018-01-19T13:58:01.397" UserId="4622" />
  <row Id="8817" PostId="3273" Score="0" Text="Not sure about a myth, but the [aquatic ape theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis) may be relevant." CreationDate="2018-01-20T21:26:25.343" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8818" PostId="3273" Score="0" Text="@yannis Interesting, although the only mention of dolphins in the article is a Alister Hardy, the originator fo the theory, saying &quot;And of course we're not related to dolphins&quot;. But hey, maybe the writers misinterpreted it and said it was true. If there was an argument that it wasn't from a myth, but more likely from this, I'd accept that as an answer." CreationDate="2018-01-20T22:08:43.357" UserId="1308" />
  <row Id="8858" PostId="3273" Score="0" Text="Terry Pratchtt's  _Nation_ picks up the same trope. Only difference is that people don't volunteer to go to the sea, but that the dead are sent to the sea to live there as dolphins." CreationDate="2018-02-02T09:14:47.087" UserId="955" />
  <row Id="8821" PostId="3276" Score="0" Text="What is the difference with your previous question actually?" CreationDate="2018-01-23T07:51:08.467" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="8823" PostId="3276" Score="0" Text="@plannapus The widening of the acceptable source pantheon. For example, Norse mythology has a serpent around the equator; Greco-Roman mythology does not. So if there was *one* example in the Greco-Roman pantheon, there might be more examples in other belief systems." CreationDate="2018-01-23T11:01:43.607" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="8824" PostId="3276" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum ah indeed, didn't understood the first one excluded other pantheons, my bad." CreationDate="2018-01-23T13:08:10.410" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="8833" PostId="3276" Score="0" Text="It's been a while since I read the Chinese *[Classic of Mountains and Seas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_of_Mountains_and_Seas)*, so I can't remember if this configuration appears specifically, but I wouldn't be surprised, since the book is mytho/combinatorial." CreationDate="2018-01-25T19:51:01.430" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8834" PostId="3276" Score="0" Text="http://pbfcomics.com/comics/spelling/ shows a four-handed elephant god, but it might be from a modern fictional mythology that is off-topic per https://mythology.meta.stackexchange.com/a/143/197 ." CreationDate="2018-01-25T23:55:02.487" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8829" PostId="3277" Score="2" Text="You know the drill by now: Some quotes or paraphrases from your source would improve this answer." CreationDate="2018-01-25T00:01:40.057" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8855" PostId="3277" Score="0" Text="It is my understanding the Indian/Vedic gods are usually portrayed or described with multiple arms, but the number often changes from one depiction to another (or from avatar to avatar). And, technically, I excluded deities in the question by specifying races and creatures." CreationDate="2018-02-01T19:42:49.237" UserId="4601" />
  <row Id="8857" PostId="3277" Score="0" Text="In a *pantheon*, the word suggests it, the creatures are deities." CreationDate="2018-02-01T21:20:48.477" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="8828" PostId="3278" Score="1" Text="I'm not sure parallels in a few deities is really that big of a deal though. With a large enough pantheon, individual gods are bound to have traits/aspects that are present in another pantheon - they're all derived from natural observations after all." CreationDate="2018-01-24T19:15:14.760" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8838" PostId="3283" Score="2" Text="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ca%C3%AFssa TIL India has a god for everything" CreationDate="2018-01-28T03:55:19.880" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="10341" PostId="3283" Score="0" Text="Not a god and maybe not a hero, but I feel the need to mention Palamedes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palamedes_(mythology)), who took part in the Trojan war and invented the dice - a very useful thing if you're stuck in a 10 years long siege with a lot of other soldiers." CreationDate="2018-04-07T13:45:11.457" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="8837" PostId="3284" Score="3" Text="While the author is correct, it's from 1695, so seventeenth century. It's the oldest written account, but not necessarily the original version." CreationDate="2018-01-27T06:47:20.590" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="8840" PostId="3286" Score="1" Text="@Gibet As I've mentioned in the question, it seems to me that the Memphis and Heliopolis stories are roughly the same (Atum physically creating the world), with the notable exception that the Memphites place their own patron deity atop and credit him with the creation of Atum. This is what piqued my interest, and why the scope of this question is limited to the relationship of these two versions. The creation stories of Hermopolis and Thebes are fascinating, but outside the scope of the question." CreationDate="2018-01-29T17:23:59.410" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8848" PostId="3288" Score="3" Text="One theory is that worshipers of the new gods conquered the worshipers of the previous generation of gods." CreationDate="2018-01-31T13:29:52.623" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="8849" PostId="3288" Score="2" Text="Very good question.  One key difference is that the Olympians were more anthropomorphized, governing humanity, as opposed to the primordials, who, although also anthropomorphized to some degree, still represent primal, inhuman natural forces.  Basically, the primordials are the embodiment of what they represent, Sky, Earth, Dawn, etc.  Also worth noting that Aphrodite comes from an earlier generation, born from Cronus' castration of Ouranos.  I also wouldn't cast the Olympians as lesser, in light of their overthrowing of the previous order.  Zeus with his lightning is unquestionably dominant." CreationDate="2018-01-31T16:57:52.383" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8841" PostId="3289" Score="2" Text="There is a [discussion on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ABlue_rose#Blue_Rose_and_Baba_Yaga) that points to this being inspired by a computer game in the 90s that featured a Baba Yaga NPC, but that's far from confirmation. Hopefully, we can do better. Welcome to the site." CreationDate="2018-01-30T08:37:31.040" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8847" PostId="3289" Score="1" Text="@yannis Drat. This might have answered [the blue chicken question](https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/43217/why-would-chickens-be-blue-in-the-soviet-union) over at History SE." CreationDate="2018-01-31T02:48:32.710" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8845" PostId="3290" Score="1" Text="@Gibet Wasn't Taweret mainly thought of as a protector deity, though? Wasn't her role to protect mothers during childbirth? Hippopotami and crocodiles are indeed fierce, I can understand why the Egyptians would choose these animals to depict their apotropaic deities." CreationDate="2018-01-30T12:54:17.597" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8850" PostId="3292" Score="2" Text="This is correct.  In the [27th Orphic Hymn](http://www.theoi.com/Text/OrphicHymns1.html#27), he is called &quot;studious of contests&quot; (still trying to track down the Greek so I can see the actual word, but it is though to be a reference to the athletic games.)  [Encyclopedia Mythica](https://pantheon.org/articles/h/hermes.html) also talks about Hermes presiding over the game of dice, and has references." CreationDate="2018-01-31T21:15:51.213" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8853" PostId="3293" Score="2" Text="It is prudent to note that it was not only humans who did this. Apollo and Artemis killed children because their mother disrespected them. Athena and Arachne might be the most famous. Although one could argue that mortals in both stories got arrogant." CreationDate="2018-02-01T02:11:09.663" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="8873" PostId="3294" Score="1" Text="You've read the Great Hymn to Aten, right? There are several mentions of &quot;darkness&quot; and &quot;setting&quot; in there that could prove fruitful, although nothing like an explicitly reasoned out theology of course." CreationDate="2018-02-05T23:36:52.260" UserId="4171" />
  <row Id="8851" PostId="3296" Score="1" Text="If I but had two upvotes to give ... :)" CreationDate="2018-01-31T21:17:16.397" UserId="4171" />
  <row Id="8852" PostId="3296" Score="1" Text="@Era :)  You can reward me by thinking up, and asking, more great mythology question on this stack!" CreationDate="2018-01-31T21:21:34.430" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8860" PostId="3299" Score="1" Text="Interesting question.  I'd have to do some serious research to determine a &quot;when&quot;, but as to the &quot;why&quot;, it a matter of inversion of symbols, that may have been lost on the the Christian originators of the upside-down cross, but was picked up on in the post-modern era by artists." CreationDate="2018-02-02T19:16:52.880" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8861" PostId="3299" Score="2" Text="One of my favorite passages on this type of inversion comes from the Wasteland: &quot;A woman drew her long black hair out tight / And fiddled whisper music on those strings / And bats with baby faces in the violet light	/ Whistled, and beat their wings / And crawled head downward down a blackened wall / And upside down in air were towers / Tolling reminiscent bells, that kept the hours / And voices ringing out of empty cisterns and exhausted wells. &quot;" CreationDate="2018-02-02T19:18:55.443" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8862" PostId="3300" Score="3" Text="Ever seen *Stargate SG-1*? ;)" CreationDate="2018-02-03T07:26:07.747" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="16237" PostId="3302" Score="0" Text="Just to keep us all on our toes, Egyptians would actually hail gods as &quot;polyonymous&quot; -- having many names." CreationDate="2023-01-07T02:35:25.790" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="8863" PostId="3304" Score="1" Text="[LGBT themes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology) are common in mythologies around the world. Can you clarify what you mean by &quot;explicitly support homosexuality&quot;?" CreationDate="2018-02-03T13:23:39.280" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="8864" PostId="3304" Score="0" Text="@Ouroboros I would like a verse saying it is okay.  Stories are just that stories.  Hinduism is a great example of religion that actually explicitly has verses denying homosexuality despite having stories about it." CreationDate="2018-02-03T16:18:46.070" UserId="3302" />
  <row Id="10380" PostId="3304" Score="0" Text="@Gibet mythologies are not always but I guess it could be a religion.  I read most of what you posted and I fail to see any mythologies listed there that would regarded as a religion today.  Also Hinduism similar to the mythologies you listed don't explicitly support gay marriage, but do talk about gods who were essentially gay.  This is not the same thing.  Hinduism would work under such requirement." CreationDate="2018-04-17T13:41:18.717" UserId="3302" />
  <row Id="10382" PostId="3304" Score="2" Text="@Gibet if I am miss using the religions tag please do clarify.  I do not think I understand your point.  I have edited the question to only include still existing religions." CreationDate="2018-04-17T14:36:48.730" UserId="3302" />
  <row Id="8867" PostId="3308" Score="1" Text="I could have sworn one of the Greenland sagas records a brief encounter with a hopping creature that has sometimes been identified as a monopod. I can't find my copy or I'd look it up myself." CreationDate="2018-02-05T08:10:17.290" UserId="4171" />
  <row Id="8872" PostId="3308" Score="1" Text="@Era Interesting.  There is a famous reference to [Monopods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopod_(creature)) (&quot;Shadefoots&quot;) in Aristophanes, and the idea seems to have caught on, as they were subsequently mentioned by Augustin. The wiki lists the Viking mention in *The Saga of Erik the Red*." CreationDate="2018-02-05T22:49:31.483" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8874" PostId="3308" Score="0" Text="Yes, it's there, in chapter 14." CreationDate="2018-02-06T07:17:45.827" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="11159" PostId="3308" Score="0" Text="This is i response to the answers given. I have been doing some, only online, research on this whole Leif Ericson finding bigfoot deal. And When I found that the saga is claimed to have said that the Skellring had 'large eyes and broad cheek bones' it was to the Thule people of coastal Alaska(via wikipedia). Now I get the broad cheekbones, but the Thule people, or as known as the Eskimo people, do not have large eyes. That seems like a false description if you ask me." CreationDate="2018-11-25T04:22:55.340" UserId="5579" />
  <row Id="8876" PostId="3312" Score="0" Text="Your title does not match the book you have linked. Did you mean this book by William Ralston Shedden Ralston? https://books.google.com/books?id=LTMYAAAAYAAJ&amp;pg=PA124&amp;lpg=PA124&amp;dq=russian+folklore+enchantress+blue+rose+tree&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=hb64Kx6XzH&amp;sig=GQAWCNmo9mCKbEHfi0uApLES9BM&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwiOuYSSwpHZAhXmqFkKHWGPDREQ6AEIODAH#v=onepage&amp;q=russian%20folklore%20enchantress%20blue%20rose%20tree&amp;f=false" CreationDate="2018-02-06T14:43:51.270" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8879" PostId="3313" Score="1" Text="Lyacon from Greek mythology ?" CreationDate="2018-02-07T07:14:27.987" UserDisplayName="user1385" />
  <row Id="11722" PostId="3313" Score="0" Text="Demeter transformed Ascalabus into a lizard for mocking her sorrow and thirst during her search for her daughter Persephone. She also turned King Lyncus into a lynx for trying to murder her prophet Triptolemus." CreationDate="2019-07-14T21:43:05.620" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11723" PostId="3313" Score="0" Text="Some info can be gathered from Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapeshifting unfortunately I don't have time to make a satisfying answer anytime soon." CreationDate="2019-07-14T21:47:22.450" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="8868" PostId="3315" Score="3" Text="This is all very interesting, but is it supported by ancient texts? Did the Greeks differentiate between &quot;mortal self&quot; and &quot;godly self&quot;, and was that reflected in their mythology?" CreationDate="2018-02-05T19:42:43.027" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8869" PostId="3315" Score="0" Text="I think this is a good answer, but it could use some textual support." CreationDate="2018-02-05T22:40:46.537" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16494" PostId="3315" Score="0" Text="Per *Iliad* 1.3-5 it is the heroes' souls (ψυχάς) that go to Hades at death, leaving their bodies prey to dogs and birds. (The corpses, oddly enough, are referred to as *themselves,* αὐτούς, &quot;the body being regarded as the real man&quot; per Cunliffe's Homeric lexicon s.v. αὐτός.)" CreationDate="2023-09-23T13:20:58.347" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="8871" PostId="3316" Score="2" Text="I've been noticing Budge's name comes up a lot in relation to this subject.  (Great images, btw!)" CreationDate="2018-02-05T22:44:50.747" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8881" PostId="3316" Score="2" Text="Budge literally did write the book on it ;-D Glad U like the pics: quite a bit of trawling to find 'em all!" CreationDate="2018-02-07T08:32:42.723" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="8883" PostId="3316" Score="0" Text="Impressive answer, thank you. Learned a lot more from it than I expected when I posted the question." CreationDate="2018-02-07T14:00:55.140" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8886" PostId="3316" Score="1" Text="You are most welcome. It was an interesting question, &amp; *I* learned a tonne more than I could've anticipated when I began hunting for the info on it." CreationDate="2018-02-08T05:29:46.480" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="8875" PostId="3318" Score="0" Text="http://www.bartleby.com/196/166.html" CreationDate="2018-02-06T14:36:51.680" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8882" PostId="3320" Score="6" Text="I think you'll have better luck getting good answers on this site if you ask specific questions about Odin." CreationDate="2018-02-07T13:14:52.693" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="8885" PostId="3320" Score="1" Text="Your right. That is vague." CreationDate="2018-02-07T18:13:52.467" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8889" PostId="3320" Score="1" Text="Gods of the Ancient Northmen by Georges Dumezil is available in the archive.org" CreationDate="2018-02-08T11:01:44.377" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="8890" PostId="3321" Score="0" Text="Hello and welcome to Mythology. When it comes to questions about ancient myths, we tend to favour answers that are supported by textual evidence. Your answer is interesting, however, a lot of your assumptions seem a bit off. Why, for example, do you think Athena is completely powerless compared to Poseidon? After all, [Poseidon rarely had much luck when facing another Olympian](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/1401/57)." CreationDate="2018-02-08T11:42:01.397" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11515" PostId="3322" Score="1" Text="I'm not posting as a formal answer, because this interpretation might be considered controversial, but, based on my understanding of symbolism in art, the three stars might be a reference to the [Three Magi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Magi), in the sense that this painting can be regarded as an inversion of [the Nativity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nativity_of_Jesus)." CreationDate="2019-04-23T20:26:45.733" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11535" PostId="3322" Score="0" Text="These stars are the three stars in the middle of Orion." CreationDate="2019-04-23T10:58:53.970" UserId="5988" />
  <row Id="8884" PostId="3323" Score="2" Text="[This Quora page](https://www.quora.com/Who-discovered-the-Solar-System-How-was-it-discovered) has Galileo's sketch of Saturn showing three circles (he also referred to them as &quot;ears&quot;). It wasn't until 1655/6 that Huygens suggested/observed the rings, about 20 years after Rubens painted the above." CreationDate="2018-02-07T14:56:37.390" UserId="3540" />
  <row Id="8892" PostId="3325" Score="0" Text="If they were in the Chairs of Forgetfulness, how could they reach out to Heracles?" CreationDate="2018-02-08T15:54:50.140" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8894" PostId="3325" Score="0" Text="@AndrewJohnson Chairs of forgetfulness? Which version of the story do you have in mind?" CreationDate="2018-02-09T08:13:56.173" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8903" PostId="3325" Score="0" Text="Something like this one. http://www.maicar.com/GML/Pirithous.html" CreationDate="2018-02-12T16:31:06.070" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8905" PostId="3325" Score="0" Text="@AndrewJohnson That is an interesting telling of the story. Yet, the part about the chairs of forgetfulness doesn't note any ancient sources. I'm not sure if it's part of the original story or a later addition. In any case, I don't see any mention of Theseus or Pirithous reaching out to Heracles; Heracles just happened upon them on his way to fetch Cerberus." CreationDate="2018-02-13T08:30:14.850" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8913" PostId="3325" Score="0" Text="In this one, no. But above, you quoted Pseudo-Apollodorus saying they reached out to Heracles as if to rise with his strength. If they were in the chairs of forgetfulness, or the chairs had them bound, how could they reach out to him unable to move/think?" CreationDate="2018-02-14T13:49:04.337" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8915" PostId="3325" Score="0" Text="@AndrewJohnson Erm, but Pseudo-Apollodorus doesn't mention anything about any chairs of forgetfulness. Your question only makes sense if we find a story that mentions both the chairs of forgetfulness and that Theseus somehow reached out to Heracles." CreationDate="2018-02-14T17:05:37.587" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8917" PostId="3325" Score="0" Text="That is true, I guess." CreationDate="2018-02-14T19:56:59.273" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="11487" PostId="3329" Score="0" Text="How did hector bring the Trojans to the brink of ruin? &#xA;Why would declining the challenge be tantamount to surrender? isn't retreating behind your walls the reason you built the walls?" CreationDate="2019-04-16T00:00:52.597" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11528" PostId="3329" Score="0" Text="@HaoSun i think the first question is worth a new question, though i disagree with the premise -I don't think it was hector that brought the trojans to the brink of ruin. as for the latter two questions: it's hard to cite an ancient mindset, but i would suggest that your strongest warrior losing to the enemies strongest warrior would be such a blow to your troops morale that you might as well surrender. its like admitting the enemies superweapons beat yours, and you have no counter" CreationDate="2019-04-28T00:04:19.203" UserId="2762" />
  <row Id="11529" PostId="3329" Score="0" Text="I guess the modern equivalent would be a country's prime politician admitting that their ICBMs were insufficient against an enemy nuclear missile. plus there is a religious element to it: the victor is selected by Zeus, as indicated in the quote. By definition then, if you didn't win a challenge, Zeus was against you, and who can argue with the will of the chief god?" CreationDate="2019-04-28T00:05:39.267" UserId="2762" />
  <row Id="11530" PostId="3329" Score="0" Text="thats exactly my point why would anyone accuse Hector of bringing the city to the brink of ruin???&#xA;There is no modern equivalent because modern warfare is fought by a massive military machine a lot of which revolves around civilian industry as was shown in WWII   ICBMs are sorta mutually assured destruction  but also a result of non combatant industry and not on an individual. effort  &#xA;the Illiad is kind of weird in that way everything including abduction of Helen revolve around the individual" CreationDate="2019-04-29T01:12:02.843" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11538" PostId="3329" Score="0" Text="@HaoSun I was trying to aid the understanding of the effect of morale on a battle rather than provide a direct military comparison: ancient battles were won or lost on the will to fight, and the disgrace/death of a champion or general could break an army" CreationDate="2019-05-02T07:51:19.713" UserId="2762" />
  <row Id="11539" PostId="3329" Score="0" Text="As to why hector himself would think this:  A massive ego probably plays into it, whether or not it was true." CreationDate="2019-05-02T07:53:38.103" UserId="2762" />
  <row Id="8914" PostId="3332" Score="0" Text="Can you check your links? I get an error page on all five of my browsers. Might be me, but I have no way to know." CreationDate="2018-02-14T15:09:29.880" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="8916" PostId="3332" Score="0" Text="hi, the link is a PDF" CreationDate="2018-02-14T17:56:28.760" UserId="4694" />
  <row Id="8896" PostId="3333" Score="0" Text="great answer @andejons, thanks! lots of information" CreationDate="2018-02-10T19:32:05.047" UserId="4694" />
  <row Id="8895" PostId="3335" Score="5" Text="I think religion and mythology should be separated. Adherents to a religion call the stories of religion mythology, meaning they can coexist. Perseus's slaying of Medusa isn't religion, but worshiping Zeus is, if that makes any sense." CreationDate="2018-02-10T16:31:05.283" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="11275" PostId="3335" Score="0" Text="This might be better suited for [EL&amp;U](https://english.stackexchange.com)." CreationDate="2019-02-10T16:06:04.043" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11279" PostId="3335" Score="1" Text="mythology and religion are more often than not intertwined" CreationDate="2019-02-11T10:24:43.550" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="8898" PostId="3337" Score="2" Text="Hi, Baldr, welcome to Mythology and Folklore. Did you check [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mytheme), and if so, what still confuses you?" CreationDate="2018-02-11T03:16:57.190" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="8923" PostId="3337" Score="1" Text="@HDE226868 possibly they're looking for an explanation in layman's language.  *(I'm thinking of my first brush with Time Complexity as a non-mathematician.)*  The wiki is clear, but assumes general grounding in linguistics." CreationDate="2018-02-14T22:55:38.550" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8899" PostId="3338" Score="2" Text="He *can't*... that's his task, his geas. Also, he's a lesson from a myth, not a fully-realized character." CreationDate="2018-02-11T12:41:48.897" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="8901" PostId="3338" Score="2" Text="To emphasize @LaurenIpsum's point, Sisyphus _really wants_ that rock at the top of that mountain. Besides, what else is there to do in Hades?" CreationDate="2018-02-11T19:09:40.447" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8910" PostId="3338" Score="0" Text="@Spencer escape?" CreationDate="2018-02-13T23:54:08.697" UserId="4698" />
  <row Id="8922" PostId="3338" Score="0" Text="Haha.  Never thought of that, and I have 10 new ideas before breakfast most days.  This makes me wonder if there doesn't exist in modern literature a take on this idea...  (Speaking of post-modern treatments of mythology, I strongly recommend Sartre's [The Flies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flies).)" CreationDate="2018-02-14T22:53:11.857" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8900" PostId="3339" Score="2" Text="This seems to overlap to a large part with [this question](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2809/how-to-reconcile-the-size-differential-between-giants-and-non-giants-in-norse-my?rq=1)" CreationDate="2018-02-11T16:24:50.137" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="8907" PostId="3339" Score="0" Text="@andejons Yes, that seems to be the case. Should we close this one as a duplicate?" CreationDate="2018-02-13T14:06:51.307" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="8908" PostId="3339" Score="0" Text="If you're pleased with the answers you got there, we can close this. Otherwise, I think that we could write something about the looks of the jötnar, without focusing much on their size." CreationDate="2018-02-13T14:31:14.347" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="8977" PostId="3342" Score="1" Text="Can you support anything in this answer?  Not saying it's wrong, but it is rife with phrases like *&quot;most universities will put mythology in their folklore courses.&quot;*  Are your definitions of Mythology, Folklore and Legends the formal definitions in the field, or are you proposing them?  It's hard to know when the answer provides no citations." CreationDate="2018-02-21T16:38:08.223" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8920" PostId="3347" Score="3" Text="Great question re: ichor!" CreationDate="2018-02-14T22:46:15.300" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8974" PostId="3347" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Why aren't you posting that as an answer???" CreationDate="2018-02-21T14:13:14.600" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="8999" PostId="3349" Score="1" Text="I've update my answer with more similarities.  Take heart that the question now has two reopen votes!" CreationDate="2018-02-23T22:33:08.207" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9001" PostId="3350" Score="2" Text="I'd comment that in Christianity, Joseph is regarded as Jesus' legal father, but not the progenitor.  Also will make the point that in some Caribbean religions, Catholic Saints merged with the traditional gods of Africa (see [syncretism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism))  Like gods, saints in some christian sects are worshiped (see: [veneration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneration).)" CreationDate="2018-02-23T22:37:31.563" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9049" PostId="3350" Score="1" Text="Well i have been told that Jesus was a son of somebody else, but Joseph accepted him, the innocent child, and forgave Mary and that is why he is a saint." CreationDate="2018-02-27T12:12:17.513" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="8919" PostId="3352" Score="1" Text="Great question.  I'll need to do some research to refresh my memory on this topic, which, like you, I have come across in numerous contexts. &#xA; (In the meantime: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraxas_(album)  :)" CreationDate="2018-02-14T22:32:03.903" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8983" PostId="3354" Score="2" Text="Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been [moved to chat](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/73519/discussion-on-answer-by-dukezhou-could-odin-zeus-be-known-to-christians-as-god)." CreationDate="2018-02-22T09:39:17.557" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8924" PostId="3355" Score="0" Text="This question originated from a discussion with Andrew Johnson in a related question: [Why did Hades let Heracles rescue Theseus?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/3324/57)" CreationDate="2018-02-15T12:57:57.053" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8926" PostId="3356" Score="0" Text="Thank you. I kinda noticed Apd. at the bottom of the Greek Mythology Link article, but probably thought it was the Bibliotheka reference that doesn't mention the chairs (I was already aware of that version) and dismissed it." CreationDate="2018-02-16T08:42:19.643" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="8933" PostId="3356" Score="0" Text="You're welcome :-) Indeed, it is a bit of a whirlpool of context-less references on that site, made a level deeper by their somewhat insider abbreviations; &amp; I do see the &quot;Apd. _Ep._ &quot; references trying not to lose themselves in the haystack on that page. (Not that I'm complaining about the GML: 1 of the top 5 Greek mythology sites, in English [as far as I'm concerned].)" CreationDate="2018-02-17T07:15:52.217" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="8929" PostId="3359" Score="3" Text="Welcome to Mythology!  Could you reference the specific Old Testament passages you're asking about?" CreationDate="2018-02-16T17:05:26.500" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8937" PostId="3367" Score="0" Text="What if `foor`? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foor" CreationDate="2018-02-18T20:32:05.247" UserId="4720" />
  <row Id="8939" PostId="3367" Score="0" Text="This is a &quot;whale of a tale&quot;. The [blue whale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_whale_penis) has the largest penis known to mankind (3 meters (9.8 feet). That is 10 feet in my books!" CreationDate="2018-02-19T13:34:53.093" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="14252" PostId="3367" Score="0" Text="See also the same question on Literature SE https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/5395/139" CreationDate="2021-02-24T19:44:18.617" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="8941" PostId="3372" Score="3" Text="You know the drill:What has your research shown you so far?" CreationDate="2018-02-20T01:14:19.247" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="8980" PostId="3372" Score="0" Text="solsdottir's deleted answer is correct. *(If that answer is not resurrected, I'll come back and formally answer, with links.)*  I highly recommend reading the Ulster Cycle.  The [Eickhoff translation](https://www.amazon.com/Red-Branch-Tales-Ulster-Cycle/dp/0312870183) is quite good imo.  There you'll get to read about not only Scatach and Aiofe, but Fergus mac Roth and, [Ket](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cet_mac_M%C3%A1gach) and [MacDatho's Boar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conall_Cernach#Mac_Da_Th%C3%B3's_Pig)." CreationDate="2018-02-21T21:12:05.527" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="8943" PostId="3373" Score="1" Text="Michael Stevens answers your question [at 2:52 in his video &quot;Why Did The Chicken Cross The Road?&quot;](https://youtu.be/_6nSOgsI_vo?t=2m52s)" CreationDate="2018-02-20T04:38:47.090" UserId="4726" />
  <row Id="8945" PostId="3374" Score="14" Text="Maybe it's a pun that has been lost in translation :)" CreationDate="2018-02-20T06:25:25.537" UserId="4730" />
  <row Id="8947" PostId="3374" Score="5" Text="I love how humans were so similar back then. Almost 4000 years later and we still find fart jokes funny." CreationDate="2018-02-20T13:03:09.450" UserId="334" />
  <row Id="8952" PostId="3374" Score="11" Text="Can we get a Sumerian to chime in here? I'm curious what this farting nonsense means" CreationDate="2018-02-20T17:36:03.513" UserId="4751" />
  <row Id="8953" PostId="3374" Score="2" Text="I'm wondering if the joke was reconstructed using the comparative method, by comparing thousands of modern fart jokes and tracing them back to a common ancestor." CreationDate="2018-02-20T17:36:15.610" UserId="4753" />
  <row Id="8957" PostId="3374" Score="3" Text="I think it plays on the same notion still around today...that women are too refined and cultured to fart, that's just something crude men do. Of course women do it too, but the joke is that they just never do it around men." CreationDate="2018-02-20T19:58:18.503" UserId="4758" />
  <row Id="8959" PostId="3374" Score="1" Text="@Pyritie It's impressive how similar [Pompeii bathroom graffiti](http://www.pompeiana.org/Resources/Ancient/Graffiti%20from%20Pompeii.htm) is to modern-day" CreationDate="2018-02-20T21:52:27.040" UserId="3263" />
  <row Id="8962" PostId="3374" Score="13" Text="I think the joke is about the difference between girlfriends and wives. When you're courting, the girl will try to make the best impression. Once you're married, the wife doesn't have to pretend any more. It's kind of the opposite of the meme @1006a suggests." CreationDate="2018-02-20T22:36:51.763" UserId="4766" />
  <row Id="8963" PostId="3374" Score="3" Text="[obligatory xkcd](https://xkcd.com/794/)" CreationDate="2018-02-20T22:40:00.177" UserId="4767" />
  <row Id="8965" PostId="3374" Score="4" Text="Not sure if this is how others are reading it, but I interpret this as &quot;of course every young woman has farted in her husband's lap—we just pretend they don't&quot;. That's the joke." CreationDate="2018-02-20T23:39:41.280" UserId="4770" />
  <row Id="8972" PostId="3374" Score="3" Text="The joke makes sense. It's actually a double joke with sarcasm/cynicism in it, making it a rather advanced joke, imo. A modern example: &quot;Never before seen headline: Donald Trump handled the visit with diplomatic expertise.&quot; The joke has two layers: (1) we are silly for making a headline of someone doing their job as expected (2) but secretly we all know that he's unable of doing his job as expected. Similarly: (1) we are silly for being amazed at women respecting etiquette (not farting) (2) but secretly we all know that women don't respect etiquette and _do_ fart. It's an in-joke between men." CreationDate="2018-02-21T12:43:53.417" UserId="4782" />
  <row Id="8973" PostId="3374" Score="3" Text="I recall one from a book my dad was reading on the history of humour, I think it was early Roman and went something like: &quot;The emperor was touring the provinces when he saw a peasant who looked just like him. He had the man brought before him and demanded 'did your mother ever travel to Rome?' to which the peasant replied 'No my lord, but my father went there often'&quot;. While it's probably later than the answer here, it is at least funny...  : )" CreationDate="2018-02-21T13:55:39.963" UserId="4785" />
  <row Id="9128" PostId="3377" Score="1" Text="See also https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/5971/139 &quot;https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/5971/139&quot;" CreationDate="2018-03-11T13:37:59.647" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="10620" PostId="3377" Score="0" Text="Note to self from the future: Wikipedia has a nice article about it, [Geography of the *Odyssey*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_the_Odyssey)." CreationDate="2018-05-15T10:50:31.840" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="8971" PostId="3378" Score="0" Text="In your examples, you seem to be mixing terms for groups of spirits (e.g. agathodemons &amp; cacodemons), with names for singular deities (e.g. Sophrosyne, Mnemosyne). The question of what is a daemon and what is not is an interesting one, but I think your examples are more confusing than helpful. Also, it would be helpful if you could quote the definitions of daemon and titan from your links." CreationDate="2018-02-21T11:56:22.660" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="8998" PostId="3391" Score="0" Text="By bowing to their knees, would that be the same as kneeling?" CreationDate="2018-02-23T22:00:57.400" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="9000" PostId="3391" Score="1" Text="@AndrewJohnson It's all roughly the same act, yes: any form of prostration." CreationDate="2018-02-23T22:36:23.273" UserId="4565" />
  <row Id="9002" PostId="3392" Score="3" Text="Awesome!  Welcome to mythology.  Going to have to think on this one..." CreationDate="2018-02-23T22:40:27.923" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9004" PostId="3392" Score="2" Text="What about when the dead appear *having been summoned* from the underworld? They're in the mortal realm, but they were recalled from the underworld through magic or something like it. We have several early examples of that." CreationDate="2018-02-23T22:53:03.223" UserId="4565" />
  <row Id="9006" PostId="3392" Score="1" Text="Another question is if trance states and possession counts. Shamanism goes *way* back." CreationDate="2018-02-24T03:24:10.453" UserId="4171" />
  <row Id="9022" PostId="3392" Score="0" Text="Stories of summoned spirits and possessions are fascinating, but I am more interested in stories of the more typical ghost story theme (hauntings, unfinished business, etc)." CreationDate="2018-02-24T20:23:23.187" UserId="4797" />
  <row Id="9025" PostId="3392" Score="0" Text="@sleepymiles I added a new question about summoning: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/3400/what-is-the-earliest-story-of-summoning-the-dead-we-know-of" CreationDate="2018-02-24T21:03:49.207" UserId="4797" />
  <row Id="9009" PostId="3393" Score="2" Text="The gems story is interesting. Do you have a source for it? Also, your P.S. isn't entirely correct. Pluton (where Pluto derives from) was one of the names of Hades. In fact, Plato (in Cratylus) tells us that Greeks at the time generally prefered using Pluton over Hades." CreationDate="2018-02-24T14:10:17.280" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="9012" PostId="3396" Score="0" Text="Hm, you aren't addressing the fact that the figures in the lekythos are male, though. Which is the whole point of the question, really." CreationDate="2018-02-24T16:35:46.520" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="9015" PostId="3396" Score="0" Text="I don't think that it's the fact that they are male, it's that they are represented as male. ' &quot;The Keres or φυχαί are represented as miniature men...&quot; ' Quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighing_of_souls" CreationDate="2018-02-24T16:43:48.780" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="9019" PostId="3396" Score="0" Text="That is an interesting quote. Please update your answer to include it (and if possible reference its actual source, not Wikipedia)." CreationDate="2018-02-24T17:28:15.817" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="9021" PostId="3396" Score="0" Text="I tried looking for it in the British Museum, but could not find the comment on the lekythos." CreationDate="2018-02-24T18:55:35.380" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="9026" PostId="3400" Score="1" Text="Well, you didn't like the scene of Odysseus in the underworld in your other question, but what about here? Odysseus had to make blood offerings and the Dead had to come and drink it in order to speak with him..." CreationDate="2018-02-24T21:26:06.113" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="9027" PostId="3400" Score="0" Text="@spencer I am still only interested in stories that take place in the mortal world, not in the underworld. I will update the question to make it clear." CreationDate="2018-02-24T21:30:08.423" UserId="4797" />
  <row Id="9041" PostId="3400" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Good catch. I had forgotten that Enkidu came up from the nether world, not that Gilgamesh went down." CreationDate="2018-02-27T03:35:36.350" UserId="4565" />
  <row Id="9054" PostId="3401" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I hadn't heard of this before. I'll look into it anon. Thanks!" CreationDate="2018-02-27T23:45:17.213" UserId="4565" />
  <row Id="13683" PostId="3405" Score="0" Text="Many Christians belief this, but I'm not aware it being any official Christian doctrine. The Bible itself teaches that man is currently less than an angel but in the afterlife will be greater (e.g. Heb 2), so much so that: &quot;*Know ye not that we shall judge angels?*&quot; (1Cor 6:3). The one possible Biblical support is &quot;*For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.*&quot; (Mark 12:25), but that is only an analogy in response to a question about widows that remarry, indicating that in the afterlife we won't have spouses." CreationDate="2020-07-20T21:26:51.717" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="13971" PostId="3405" Score="0" Text="@Gibet While clearly influenced by Christianity, this belief is clearly not part of the Christian religion itself but more of a folk tradition assosicated with cultures exposed to Christianity. So it fits here on our site." CreationDate="2020-10-20T21:01:33.430" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="9045" PostId="3406" Score="2" Text="Keep in mind there's a difference between bringing someone back from the Elysian Fields and reanimating dead corpses." CreationDate="2018-02-27T06:41:02.910" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="9070" PostId="3407" Score="0" Text="changed the question a bit." CreationDate="2018-03-03T13:06:17.707" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="9101" PostId="3407" Score="0" Text="OK, so Oni are evil? why? probably needs a new question." CreationDate="2018-03-06T22:27:47.927" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="11500" PostId="3407" Score="0" Text="There was a myth that Benkei the monk was the result of either a demon or rape by a holy man. Benkei was called an Oniwaka (demon child). Given how famous he was as Yoshitsune's retainer, then might answer your question." CreationDate="2019-04-17T19:33:10.617" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="9064" PostId="3410" Score="0" Text="Possible duplicate of [What are good sources to introduce people to mythology?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/1132/what-are-good-sources-to-introduce-people-to-mythology)" CreationDate="2018-03-01T14:18:37.653" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="9066" PostId="3410" Score="1" Text="While it's true some (myself included) consider the last line of the Iliad the saddest passage all of human verse  *(roughly, &quot;And thus was was the funeral of Hector, the breaker of horses.&quot;)*, but when we're talking Tragedians, we usually restrict this to the dramatists, Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides." CreationDate="2018-03-01T18:51:54.483" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9046" PostId="3412" Score="1" Text="Wallace &amp; Gromit? :) Jokes apart, [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moon_is_made_of_green_cheese) wiki page might be a good starting point." CreationDate="2018-02-27T08:47:09.473" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="9047" PostId="3414" Score="0" Text="Those are not in themselves considered clairvoyance, but perception in dreams or while interpreting dreams can be clairvoyant." CreationDate="2018-02-27T09:36:28.400" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="16580" PostId="3414" Score="0" Text="In the ancient religion of Jainism, clairvoyance is regarded as &quot;one of the five kinds of knowledge&quot;." CreationDate="2024-01-03T14:17:38.370" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="9055" PostId="3415" Score="3" Text="I'm skeptical of basically *every claim* made here. Do you have sources for this narrative?" CreationDate="2018-02-28T18:06:32.090" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="9061" PostId="3422" Score="3" Text="Please don't post answers in comments @Gibet. **Comments are [not meant for answers**](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/comment), they don't offer the proper facilities for the community to evaluate and curate the content (i.e. editing &amp; downvoting), and of course, there are also space and formatting concerns. If you feel you can answer the question, please post an actual answer." CreationDate="2018-03-01T09:23:07.637" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="9067" PostId="3422" Score="1" Text="DukeZhou, unless &quot;Lord of Hosts&quot; has some specific, myth-related meaning and isn't just a nickname, I've edited your title to make it clearer and get better SEO." CreationDate="2018-03-02T12:17:45.800" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="9069" PostId="3422" Score="1" Text="@LaurenIpsum It was an intentional reference to an Old Testament [epithet connoting reciprocity](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/lord_%28god%29_of_hosts).  You're probably right that the title needs a more well known term.  I've re-edited the title based on your suggestion--thanks for the input!" CreationDate="2018-03-02T17:34:09.833" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9103" PostId="3422" Score="2" Text="After the title edit, the Question seems to be about Judaism &amp; Christianity as well as Islam... but are you asking only specifically for references from the canon of ancient Hebrew writings now known as the _Tanakh_ or &quot;Old Testament&quot;? Or are both options (as I've listed them) a misinterpretation of what you're after?" CreationDate="2018-03-07T05:57:22.607" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="9105" PostId="3422" Score="1" Text="@Adinkra Old Testament, New Testament, even the Koran, although I don't know if &quot;being struck down by lightening by the almighty&quot; is a trope in Islamic cultures the way it is in European cultures.  The intent is to identify any any instances in the scripture of these traditions.  Apocrypha is also within scope." CreationDate="2018-03-07T18:23:06.397" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11862" PostId="3422" Score="1" Text="@DukeZhou Is killing people by proxy acceptable? Like if god told satan that he could strike down people with lightning to make a point?" CreationDate="2019-08-23T19:13:26.637" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11863" PostId="3422" Score="2" Text="@Tom great point. It wouldn't be the accepted answer, since I'm looking for direct smiting (i.e. is this image of the lord smiting with lightning apocryphal to the Judeo/Christian tradition), but useful info, and I would definitely upvote a well referenced answer." CreationDate="2019-08-23T19:18:59.290" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9065" PostId="3424" Score="0" Text="I actually wrote a play about this, where Cassandra calls out Agamemnon, pointing out his &quot;sacrifice of family for career&quot;, which, in the Greek canon, is literal.  *(Welcome to Mythology, btw! :)*" CreationDate="2018-03-01T18:25:37.427" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9068" PostId="3432" Score="1" Text="Please back up your assertion that these creatures are &quot;almost always&quot; drawn with wings. Neither Wikipedia article has a description or image with wings." CreationDate="2018-03-02T17:30:28.000" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="9071" PostId="3433" Score="0" Text="Check this answer in the Science Fiction and Fantasy SE: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/65991/why-do-vampires-have-to-be-invited-in. Not exactly exactly the same, but..." CreationDate="2018-03-03T15:21:39.600" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="9102" PostId="3434" Score="0" Text="Yes. In d&amp;d chimera is a mix of a dragon, a lion and a goat, so it has dragon wings. Traditional Greek chimera has no wings. But other mixed creatures from other mythologies do have wings and are refered to as chimera. (chimera is any mix of animals)" CreationDate="2018-03-06T22:55:01.600" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="9072" PostId="3435" Score="1" Text="Vamana is said to be the Sanskrit word for dwarf and it is used for an avatar of Vishnu. There is also Ptah-Pateque which is  Ptah-as-a-dwarf. But perhaps these  cases (including Bes) are just &quot;representations as dwarf&quot; of deities known also in other form." CreationDate="2018-03-03T22:38:22.837" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="9074" PostId="3435" Score="0" Text="Native American tribes had dwarf heroes. http://www.native-languages.org/legends-dwarves.htm One of them had a god. http://www.native-languages.org/morelegends/world-man.htm But I don't know if all the tribes shared the same gods or if some gods were localized to one." CreationDate="2018-03-04T22:10:55.983" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="9078" PostId="3435" Score="0" Text="Not a god, but Fafnir." CreationDate="2018-03-05T10:24:38.483" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="9073" PostId="3436" Score="1" Text="A few good links would greatly improve your answer." CreationDate="2018-03-03T23:01:39.663" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="9081" PostId="3444" Score="1" Text="Following [the link](http://www.maicar.com/GML/SUITORSHELEN.html) in Andrew Johnson's response, Helen made her choice by putting a wreath on Menelaus's head.  So he was there when the choice was made, and that undermines the idea that he needed Agamemnon to represent him." CreationDate="2018-03-05T11:25:07.360" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="9092" PostId="3444" Score="1" Text="@Spencer It's not uncommon to have several conflicting accounts in Greek and Roman mythology, because the same material was reworked by successive generations, and no writer wants to rehash the same material without innovations.  As I recall, the wreath is only one version of the story.  Even [the number of suitors for Helen varies depending on the account](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suitors_of_Helen#Selection_of_the_Husband)" CreationDate="2018-03-05T21:37:34.530" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9111" PostId="3444" Score="0" Text="This is true. If you go down on my link, you will see three sources with only a few across the board." CreationDate="2018-03-08T03:47:20.097" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="9079" PostId="3445" Score="0" Text="Kind of looks like a four leaf clover. maybe stylized as a celtic knot?" CreationDate="2018-03-05T10:28:54.473" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="9088" PostId="3445" Score="1" Text="Great question. I have some vague memory of the meaning--weaving was very important pre-modern in agricultural cultures, and typically had associations with the goddess and cycles of life.  (Pagan cultures tend to be preoccupied with generative cycles related to planting/harvesting.)  I found this fairly recent book mentioned in the Wiki references for the Celtic knot page: [*The Language of Ornament*](https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Language_of_Ornament.html?id=OM9nQgAACAAJ) James Trilling (2001)." CreationDate="2018-03-05T20:57:52.520" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9129" PostId="3445" Score="0" Text="Knot designs appear in [Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_knotting), [Korean](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_knots), and [other](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endless_knot) cultures as well as [Celtic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_knot). What is the provenance of this bookmark? How big is it?" CreationDate="2018-03-12T03:02:41.943" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="9130" PostId="3445" Score="0" Text="It is possibly five to seven centimeters(2-3 inches) in diameter." CreationDate="2018-03-12T13:40:17.477" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="9075" PostId="3446" Score="0" Text="Basically, it was all up to Helen. Though, this is the only sight I found saying how he was chosen. Every other sight says, &quot;The oath was made and Menelaus was chosen.&quot;" CreationDate="2018-03-05T00:06:13.020" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="9076" PostId="3446" Score="0" Text="Andrew, thanks for the answer. However, I've read, including in wikipedia, that at the time of choosing, Agamemnon was representing Menelaus." CreationDate="2018-03-05T07:40:43.687" UserId="4825" />
  <row Id="9091" PostId="3446" Score="2" Text="@Anoldmaninthesea. Yeah, it's annoying.  I went to Wiki to find the source of Agamemnon representing Menelaius, and, unsurprisingly, there's no citation.  I'm going to run that down and I'll post when I have it." CreationDate="2018-03-05T21:13:13.067" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9121" PostId="3451" Score="0" Text="The interruption was on duel Menelaus and Paris.Who interrupted duel?It was the goddess Apfrodita.Also the interruption was on duel Patroclus vs Hector-when Apollo interrupted duel and helps Hector to kill Patroclus.Goddess Athena made intervention like a meteor on battle field,also Zeus.Only gods could interrupt the duel." CreationDate="2018-03-09T12:50:35.040" UserId="4845" />
  <row Id="9080" PostId="3475" Score="1" Text="What do you want to know, besides what [the Wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manticore) already says?" CreationDate="2018-03-05T11:03:37.173" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="9089" PostId="3475" Score="0" Text="This is actually an interesting question.  It's not an unreasonable assumption that the original conception of this &quot;man eater&quot; did not have a human head.  That idea seems to have evolved and taken hold in the Medieval period, a solid millennia after the initial Classical references." CreationDate="2018-03-05T21:08:13.223" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9095" PostId="3476" Score="1" Text="Many thanks for your answer Duke. I'll wait for 1 or 2 days more. If no better answer appears, I'll gladly accept yours." CreationDate="2018-03-05T23:34:26.533" UserId="4825" />
  <row Id="9099" PostId="3476" Score="1" Text="Thanks for a great question.  I researched this subject for ~10 years to while writing a play about Cassandra and Agamemnon and it's nice to be able to discuss some of the nuances." CreationDate="2018-03-06T17:11:48.147" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9109" PostId="3478" Score="0" Text="What sacred truce in the Iliad @DukeZhou? Sacred truce is a very specific concept, one that originated in the Olympics and was designed to protect non-combatants from visiting the games. The truce in the Iliad is... well... a good old regular truce. The question may claim it was a sacred truce, but... [citation-needed]." CreationDate="2018-03-07T22:39:17.303" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="9124" PostId="3478" Score="0" Text="My bad.  The question implied the linked terms were used, but when I finally had time to look at the Greek, I'm not seeing them in the source text.  Nevertheless, this truce in the Iliad does seem to be sacred, initiated by the gods and confirmed by [Helenus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helenus), who intuits their will." CreationDate="2018-03-09T19:34:27.847" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10176" PostId="3487" Score="0" Text="But when did Zeus get it? :-)" CreationDate="2018-03-17T20:56:01.580" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10243" PostId="3487" Score="0" Text="@TheEarth Not clear, atm.  *(I might have to dig out my old lecture notes on this one;)*  But the subject is muddied b/c even in my cursory answer, you have multiple sources claiming different origins.  So Tzetzes says it's the skin of the giant Pallas.  A professor I had suggested it is the golden fleece, per the goatskin etymology.  But Euripides says it was the skin of the Gorgon.  So there's no simple, definitive answer." CreationDate="2018-03-22T20:13:20.640" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9106" PostId="3489" Score="0" Text="Excellent answer.  You definitely know your stuff.  Hope to see more of you an Stack:Mythology!" CreationDate="2018-03-07T18:24:52.170" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9107" PostId="3494" Score="0" Text="Assuming this is about Hesiod's ages of man, and not Ovids?  (They differ slightly, and Ovid came many centuries after Hesiod.)" CreationDate="2018-03-07T18:36:54.473" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9110" PostId="3494" Score="1" Text="Yes, it is as Ovid doesn't include the Heroic Age." CreationDate="2018-03-07T23:08:11.460" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="9113" PostId="3494" Score="0" Text="Why are you assuming the men of each age were created the same way? If I remember correctly, it's clear from Hesiod that this is not the case. The first two races were created by the Titans, the other three by Zeus." CreationDate="2018-03-08T18:51:53.333" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="9114" PostId="3494" Score="0" Text="I'm not assuming they were created that same way. I'm asking how they were in the other two ages. In other words, how where the humans in the Gold Age made?" CreationDate="2018-03-09T00:05:47.300" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="9115" PostId="3494" Score="0" Text="Ok. This isn't clear from either the title or the question body. Please update them both to clarify exactly what you are asking about. Also, please tell us where you got the idea that Prometheus had a role in the Hesiodic tale of the Ages of Man. I don't think he did, and I think that is the source of the confusion." CreationDate="2018-03-09T08:50:25.703" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="9123" PostId="3494" Score="0" Text="Time isn't always linear in the canon, even within the work of a single author.  Close reading of the text in Greek may also provide some elucidation, but experience suggests this is merely a matter of paradoxes that commonly arise in mythological cycles." CreationDate="2018-03-09T19:13:36.267" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9122" PostId="3501" Score="0" Text="Kundalini yoga is described as a burning serpent coiling up the spine accumulating some sort of bioenergy in the chakras until it overloads and spills out the head violently like a burning fire. The same symbolism appears in the Bible as a Seraph or a bronze staff with a snake coiled around it, called a Caduceus by the Greeks." CreationDate="2018-03-09T05:35:26.713" UserId="4804" />
  <row Id="9116" PostId="3503" Score="1" Text="I'd say that Fafnir likely also was part of the inspiration, as LoTR owes a lot to the Völsunga saga in general. But that is a nitpick." CreationDate="2018-03-09T10:16:06.663" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="11617" PostId="3503" Score="0" Text="@Andejons Actually, the Children of Húrin is the story  most like the Volsunga. Think Fafnir-&gt;Glaurung instead of Smaug." CreationDate="2019-05-31T18:24:12.557" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11455" PostId="3504" Score="1" Text="That Scorpion Man is actually depicted earliest in Proto-Elamite 4K-3KBC culture of Western Iran - greater Mesopotamia. Other anthromorphic creatures like the Griffin (Bird head with Lion body and wings), and Bull/Lion head with human body (like the famous Guennel Lioness artifact), and Harpy (Bird Head/Man's body) is clearly rooted in the Proto-Elamite traditions. (note Proto-Elamite may be a misnomer, as their is little evidence the 'proto-elamites' were ancesteral to Elamites civilization). So while these mythological creatures are not Persian, they can in fact, be traced to pre-historical" CreationDate="2019-03-22T01:08:23.367" UserId="5907" />
  <row Id="9125" PostId="3506" Score="0" Text="I'm glad you want to participate, but this is about the inspirations for things in a purely literary work, and as such, it is probably a better fit for [Literature SE](https://literature.stackexchange.com) (or, God help you, [SF&amp; F SE](https://scifi.stackexchange.com)). At a minimum, you should explain why exesting resources like the Wikipedia article on [Goblins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goblin) do not satisfy you." CreationDate="2018-03-10T13:51:50.277" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="9131" PostId="3506" Score="0" Text="@Gibet Orcus was the god of oaths, specifically a punisher of broken oaths. The god of death was Thanatos. Also, it is not demonic. It is chthonic." CreationDate="2018-03-12T13:46:30.030" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="9140" PostId="3506" Score="5" Text="@AndrewJohnson &quot;Chthonic&quot; becomes conflated with &quot;demonic&quot; in most instances as Christianity suppresses the previous pagan beliefs.  [Chthonic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chthonic) very specifically means &quot;subterranean&quot;, under the surface, which is the where Hades/Hell are located.  It's also worth mentioning that another name for Orcus is &quot;Diis Pater&quot; which makes him essentially the &quot;Anti-Jupiter&quot;.  PS- I wouldn't entirely trust Wikipedia on this subject--it's much more nuanced than it may appear. *Wikipedia should only be used as a starting point for research!*" CreationDate="2018-03-12T21:54:28.807" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9126" PostId="3511" Score="4" Text="A second stick man from the right shot an animal" CreationDate="2018-03-10T22:36:17.577" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="9139" PostId="3511" Score="1" Text="This is a problematic question because we can only date things that have a physical embodiment, such as a text or carving in stone.  As much as I like the spirit of this question, I can't see how it is answerable in the current form." CreationDate="2018-03-12T21:36:40.593" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9138" PostId="3513" Score="0" Text="Are you asking for the earliest known record of this origin?  (As stated, it could be taken as asking the date of Agincourt...)" CreationDate="2018-03-12T21:33:33.830" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9161" PostId="3513" Score="0" Text="I'm asking for the earliest known date for the legend. If it was first recorded in the year of the battle, then the legend may well be true and 1415 is the answer. But while the legend is a memorable one for the many English and Welsh people who use the gesture, and many authors have repeated it in the past few decades as if it were true, I know of no evidence for its existing before 1970." CreationDate="2018-03-15T20:40:17.753" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="9167" PostId="3513" Score="2" Text="@Gibet - You have misunderstood the question, which asks where the legend came from that associated the palm-in V sign with the Agincourt story. It does not ask when the palm-in V sign was first used. Churchill used the palm-out sign, although I think there are a very few instances when he used the palm-in sign. You need to know them apart if you are in Britain!" CreationDate="2018-03-16T22:59:18.420" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="9168" PostId="3513" Score="0" Text="The earliest date I know of for the insulting palm-in V sign is 1901. As for its association with Agincourt, I think I may have heard it orally around 1980 but I am not sure. I have got a probable reference from 1986, reporting a memorate the date of which I don't know because I have not had access to the entire relevant part of the source." CreationDate="2018-03-16T23:27:22.250" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10742" PostId="3515" Score="0" Text="The parallels between pantheons does not mean one is root of another. &quot;Vladimir wanted to be independent and strong, without interference from the church.&quot; Vladimir himself took Christianity as religion and spread it. See [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianization_of_Kievan_Rus%27)." CreationDate="2018-06-28T09:38:06.357" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="9143" PostId="3517" Score="1" Text="Here in Britain I've only ever seen it used to mean &quot;OK&quot; or, with more stress, and probably more often, &quot;perfect&quot; or &quot;great job&quot; or &quot;just as it should be&quot;, expressing praise or satisfaction." CreationDate="2018-03-13T16:00:14.453" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="11964" PostId="3517" Score="0" Text="It is a simple [fingerspelling](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerspelling) of the word's two letters, **O** and **K**." CreationDate="2019-09-28T00:39:13.500" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="11975" PostId="3517" Score="0" Text="@Lucian This is older than the word ok, so saying it is &quot;simple fingerspelling&quot; seems a little too simple..." CreationDate="2019-09-30T17:30:38.420" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11977" PostId="3517" Score="0" Text="@Tom: Is the meaning of the older-than-the-word-OK hand gesture the same as (or, at the very least, similar to) that of the word OK ?" CreationDate="2019-10-01T16:47:59.997" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="11978" PostId="3517" Score="0" Text="@Lucian Actually yes. As an expression of assent and approval.&#xA;The gesture cam be traced back to first century Rome where the rhetorician Quintilian is recorded as having used it." CreationDate="2019-10-01T17:01:22.927" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="9132" PostId="3519" Score="0" Text="The question asks for mortal men. The Dactyls weren't mortal." CreationDate="2018-03-12T14:52:06.583" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="9141" PostId="3519" Score="0" Text="Dactyls were mortal,there is no evidence that they were immortal.Also their another names like Phrygians and Curets,are the names of ethnic groups which foundate Troy.Ethnic groups are mortal." CreationDate="2018-03-12T20:32:14.040" UserId="4860" />
  <row Id="9150" PostId="3523" Score="0" Text="Wonderfully thorough answer--I read it with great pleasure.  It is interesting that, if Agamemnon has nothing to gain from marrying Clytemnestra, why does he go to such lengths to do so, even courting ruin at the hands of her two brothers?  While there's no good evidence for matriarchy, matrilineality (inheritance through the mother) is considered a non-unreasonable assumption because, before DNA testing, you could only be 100% sure of who the mother is." CreationDate="2018-03-14T20:45:46.690" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9151" PostId="3523" Score="0" Text="PS- for me, Agamemnon's change of heart in *Iphigenia at Aulis* is unconvincing in that it only occurs after it is too late to change course.  Is his anguish real?  Certainly, but one is judged by one's actions, not one's thoughts.  It's a classic case of &quot;sacrificing family for career&quot;.  Re: the bedchamber plot, I think a central point of the *Iphigenia* is undermining the Aeschylean idea that the murder is enacted out of jealousy.  Euripides strongly reinforces revenge over the murder of a child as the motive. In this play, Clytemnestra is arguably the most sympathetic character." CreationDate="2018-03-14T20:52:22.557" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9152" PostId="3523" Score="0" Text="re: Κλυταιμήστρα, &quot;[μν](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/resolveform?type=start&amp;lookup=mn&amp;lang=greek)&quot; is a word root associated with the mind, and memory in particular. Interestingly, it's also the root for wooing: [μνάομαι](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/resolveform?type=start&amp;lookup=mn&amp;lang=greek)  (Graves guesses her name might mean &quot;Praiseworthy Wooing&quot;, where [κλυτ](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/resolveform?type=start&amp;lookup=klut&amp;lang=greek) is the word root for fame and renown.  It strikes me that her name could easily mean &quot;Famous Plotter&quot; (see: Polymnestor)" CreationDate="2018-03-14T21:16:28.823" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10190" PostId="3523" Score="1" Text="Glad you enjoyed the Answer so much :) There is 1 more motive ref. Agamemnon's actions before marrying Klytaim[n]estra that I've thought of, which I may add as an update to the Answer sometime soon." CreationDate="2018-03-18T21:48:43.937" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10191" PostId="3523" Score="1" Text="I only just read _Iphigeneia at Aulis_ &amp; Aeschylus' _Agamemnon_ for the 1st time while researching for this Answer. I have to say that I found Agamemnon's grief in the former to be quite compelling. The play starts out with him trying to prevent Iphigeneia from being brought to Aulis at all, but the momentum of the original bad decision (to summon her) works like a mountain of inertia, hurtling like a growing snowball towards the tragic end. Even Achilles, who gets roped up in the intrigue, is willing to sacrifice his life to save Iphigeneia so long as she asserts her will to live." CreationDate="2018-03-18T21:50:27.633" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10192" PostId="3523" Score="1" Text="Both Achilles &amp; Agamemnon lament that their own men are ready to stone/kill them if the prophetically prescribed means for them to sail to Troy is not implemented. Maybe it's just a lame excuse on their part, but Achilles chivalry brings that into question, I think. Meanwhile in Aeschylus, Agamemnon seems quite cavalier about a lot of things and indeed quite unable to read the pulse of the social circumstance into which he's tripping face-forward." CreationDate="2018-03-18T21:51:28.720" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10193" PostId="3523" Score="1" Text="Kassandra employs the use of a pun on Klytaimestra's &quot;Famous Plotter&quot; name at least once shortly before her demise in Aeschylus' _Agamemnon_." CreationDate="2018-03-18T21:51:43.170" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10242" PostId="3523" Score="0" Text="Re: puns, I think most people would be surprised at the level of word play in the Greek tragedies!  [Did you read in translation?  I find the University of Chicago versions to be the best in general, with Lattimore as the paragon, but I actually like Edith Hamilton's *Trojan Woman* the most.]  Re: Agamemnon's anguish, years of Euripides focus has made me highly cynical regarding the motives of the ringleaders, regardless of the words that come out of their mouths. ;)" CreationDate="2018-03-22T19:58:52.143" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10886" PostId="3523" Score="0" Text="Yup, I read a translation, the one by Herbert Weir Smyth." CreationDate="2018-10-05T05:03:05.767" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10887" PostId="3523" Score="1" Text="It took me adding a whole 'nutha chapter yay long to the Answer but it is done! Basically an elaboration of the idea that: The only other thing I could think of is that Klytaimnestra's 1st husband was in some sort of advantageous (or potentially advantageous) position that Agamemnon wanted &amp;, in order to hold onto this position, he—Agamemnon himself—would need to be married to Klytaimnestra. But I think that such a scenario is contrived &amp; unlikely, as I say in so many other words above. X-P" CreationDate="2018-10-05T05:03:54.037" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10888" PostId="3523" Score="0" Text="@Adrinka almost a dissertation I would say!  I'm accepting (finally) because, although I personally think there might be more to it, this is based on interpretation, not literal, extant source texts on the subject." CreationDate="2018-10-05T20:55:25.883" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10890" PostId="3523" Score="1" Text="Kool! If anyone else happens by with a different angle on it, it would be interesting to see :)" CreationDate="2018-10-06T08:20:21.560" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="9153" PostId="3526" Score="0" Text="If you could reference the Grave chapters, this would be easy to confirm.  (i.e. if it's in the translations portion, which is all cited, it is certainly reliable, but if it derives from Graves' commentaries, it is almost certainly speculation.)  Either way, you need to cite the chapter and section of Graves that you are referencing." CreationDate="2018-03-14T21:20:17.813" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9158" PostId="3526" Score="0" Text="This is good comment,we know that Graves is going to far,but we have no choise,also Claude Levy Strauss is good for me.Myth and history,-hard way,but there is always connection.For me-investigate the myths is better mode than believe to Euripides ,Virgil,Pausanius,Sofocles,Herodotus and many others  who deformed the Homers epics and many other oldest myths.They moderated myths in their version,with theirs  parts.Graves has his own reconstructon,but he is useful for us,we learn.Also,we don't have many possibilities ." CreationDate="2018-03-15T19:53:27.693" UserId="4864" />
  <row Id="9159" PostId="3526" Score="0" Text="DukeZhou-Continuation- ;chapter was-152, page 414,and 154,page 418,The Greek myths ,R.Graves." CreationDate="2018-03-15T19:58:48.680" UserId="4864" />
  <row Id="9170" PostId="3526" Score="0" Text="I can find no references to either Ejetus or Epeirotus online. Are you sure you are spelling their names correctly? Also, did either of them forge treasure?" CreationDate="2018-03-17T13:18:10.217" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="10174" PostId="3526" Score="0" Text="I have the Croatian version,but the names could not be very different.-chapter 154-Argo return in Greece. in croatian-Metopa,Epeirot,Ehet.Find that in first 10 sentencies.Yes, they forge-what for they had a stoves and a metal workshop?" CreationDate="2018-03-17T17:40:47.027" UserId="4864" />
  <row Id="9169" PostId="3528" Score="0" Text="Could you please back up your answer with references?  This appears to be a broad summary of the Titanomachy (a term you don't use, surprisingly) with some very specific details that I don't think are present in Hesiods' narrative (e.g. the mustard thing, the fact that the falling of Cronus triggered the Silver Age). What are your sources? Also, could you please put a space before your opening parenthesis?" CreationDate="2018-03-17T10:43:02.130" UserId="4105" />
  <row Id="10571" PostId="3528" Score="0" Text="Yes this could use some sources." CreationDate="2018-05-11T15:16:04.687" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="9154" PostId="3529" Score="2" Text="Welcome to Mythology.  It's a good answer, but we like citations!  If you could link to sources, that would be great.  Academic sources are ideal." CreationDate="2018-03-14T21:22:26.273" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="9156" PostId="3531" Score="0" Text="What do you mean by ocean in the sky?" CreationDate="2018-03-15T16:38:08.947" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="9157" PostId="3531" Score="0" Text="See Psalm 148:4" CreationDate="2018-03-15T17:45:44.563" UserId="4639" />
  <row Id="10185" PostId="3531" Score="1" Text="@ReggieO'Donoghue I added a quote for you this time, but in the future please edit all elaborations into the question itself." CreationDate="2018-03-18T01:50:54.817" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="10406" PostId="3531" Score="0" Text="See my [answer](https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/8144/2910) to a question on Hermeneutics.SE." CreationDate="2018-04-19T14:02:57.930" UserDisplayName="user1079" />
  <row Id="10171" PostId="3533" Score="0" Text="When you are talking about Cretan offerings, can we assume you are referring to the [Minoan civilization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization)?" CreationDate="2018-03-17T15:04:34.107" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10183" PostId="3533" Score="0" Text="Similar ritual you could find in Dalmatia villages,but that includes only vine and goat milk,without blood.Something like that you also find in Iliad,XI Book,638-642,Nestores and Patrocles,vine and goat cheese.I think it is the same ritual in other version.Maybe earlier rituals includeed blood." CreationDate="2018-03-17T23:26:30.293" UserId="4864" />
  <row Id="10199" PostId="3533" Score="0" Text="@yannis yes but the book said that the tradition continued even after the fall of Minoa." CreationDate="2018-03-19T05:26:40.440" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="14307" PostId="3533" Score="0" Text="The Greeks may have had offerings, like most religions, but it is said that the Greek gods did not like blood offerings, but it may be similar to the Cretans. Also, I do not believe that that is Nectar, simply because Nectar was the Greeks name for honey." CreationDate="2021-02-23T03:51:34.207" UserId="7481" />
  <row Id="10177" PostId="4553" Score="1" Text="That's two questions :-)" CreationDate="2018-03-17T21:56:31.467" UserDisplayName="user4244" />
  <row Id="10178" PostId="4553" Score="1" Text="It is 2 in one." CreationDate="2018-03-17T21:58:02.543" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10179" PostId="4553" Score="1" Text="No problem, now @yannis has edited the title to make that clear." CreationDate="2018-03-17T21:59:01.390" UserDisplayName="user4244" />
  <row Id="10187" PostId="4553" Score="0" Text="I have never heard the &quot;pinched&quot; part of this, and anyone who tried to assault me over my sartorial choices would be sporting a whole lot of self-sourced red. I assumed people *chose* to wear green because it's the color associated with Ireland, and Patrick is an Irish saint. Why else would people do it?" CreationDate="2018-03-18T12:15:03.407" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11962" PostId="4553" Score="0" Text="Saint Patrick's Days falls close to the equinox, on March 17, and is thus closely linked to the blossoming vegetation brought on by the coming spring." CreationDate="2019-09-28T00:18:53.340" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="10515" PostId="4555" Score="0" Text="For your Question, does it matter if the hero's great-grandparent is immortal, and therefore always going to be alive, even after the hero's death?" CreationDate="2018-05-02T06:04:16.173" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10518" PostId="4555" Score="0" Text="Good question. I was hoping for examples where the greatgrandparent and the hero are both mortal." CreationDate="2018-05-03T00:03:18.087" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="11963" PostId="4558" Score="0" Text="If Ireland doesn't have any snakes, but other parts of the world do, then the need for explaining such a relatively unique feature would be perfectly understandable." CreationDate="2019-09-28T00:22:51.973" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="10186" PostId="4559" Score="1" Text="Athena was born an adult, fully formed from the head of Zeus. She had no mother and and her father was not Triton. Triton would be her nephew." CreationDate="2018-03-18T04:15:40.853" UserId="4881" />
  <row Id="10194" PostId="4559" Score="0" Text="The mother of Triton was what I meant. Athena's, Greek goddess of Wisdom, mother was Metis." CreationDate="2018-03-18T22:17:22.403" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10182" PostId="4562" Score="1" Text="I'm not sure I have enough for an answer, but a professor of mine many years ago said that as time passed in the ancient world, any local story with a hero eventually got attributed to Herakles." CreationDate="2018-03-17T23:02:05.787" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10184" PostId="4564" Score="1" Text="A little more elaboration would make this answer better." CreationDate="2018-03-18T01:46:52.440" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="10229" PostId="4564" Score="0" Text="Trojan games with bulls instruct to the Minoian  games with the bulls,also talks about  migration from Crete to Troy.The remain of this cult I found in IstrianTroy - Motovun ,in the local game named-&quot;throwing the horn.&quot;-you motivated me, Semaphore." CreationDate="2018-03-21T07:11:51.780" UserId="4864" />
  <row Id="10205" PostId="4573" Score="2" Text="Why a deer, and not a lion (1st labour), a boar (4th labour), a bird (6th labour), a bull (7th labour), a horse (8th labour), or even a dog (12th labour)?" CreationDate="2018-03-19T19:48:54.513" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10206" PostId="4573" Score="0" Text="I don't know, but this is the only other time (that we know of) Heracles has been linked to deer." CreationDate="2018-03-20T12:44:19.813" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10207" PostId="4573" Score="0" Text="Right. This, however, isn't compatible with the etiological nature of the story. The animals signify the Egyptian counterparts of the Greek gods, the story attempts to explain how the therianthropic Egyptian deities came to be. Whether Hercules was associated with deer in Greek myths is quite irrelevant. Unless of course, you mean to imply that Hercules's transformation does not follow the same pattern as the other transformations in the story. Or even that the myth isn't etiological at all." CreationDate="2018-03-20T13:07:07.387" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10232" PostId="4576" Score="0" Text="Yes, indeed, most of the terms used here are (almost unavoidably) anachronistic, being a few hundred years too early for the time period in which the events are supposed to have taken place. Thanks for the note about Luwian &amp; Anatolia. I make a similar observation in [my response to the other Question referenced here](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/4566/2682)." CreationDate="2018-03-21T12:57:15.497" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10233" PostId="4579" Score="0" Text="Do items that can not be taken off count as cursed? (Prometheus's ring)" CreationDate="2018-03-21T15:34:24.573" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10234" PostId="4579" Score="0" Text="If the item is cursed not to be taken off.. What is Prometheus's ring? Never heard of it. TELL ME!!!" CreationDate="2018-03-21T16:40:42.837" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10235" PostId="4579" Score="1" Text="Prometheus was punished, bound to a rock waiting for his punisment every day. Heracles freed him and killed the bird that was feeding on Prometheus. But the punishment did not end. Prometheus had to be bound to that rock forever, so he wore a ring with a piece of that rock and he could never take it off." CreationDate="2018-03-21T18:04:25.740" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10238" PostId="4579" Score="0" Text="Interesting... I blame Zeus." CreationDate="2018-03-21T18:35:59.117" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10214" PostId="4580" Score="0" Text="It was one of those days when you are researching, just clicking, not really reading. But, then something catches your eye, and that is what ends up sticking with you. In other words, I don't know how I came to find this legend. I think I was trying to find more out about the origin stories of Shinto (Universe, gods, Takamagahara, humans and such). But if you Google &quot;Japanese Mythology pillar,&quot; the first result (for me) is &quot;Kuniumi.&quot; This is how I found it again." CreationDate="2018-03-20T15:20:13.520" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10215" PostId="4580" Score="1" Text="I found the legend, thanks. From a cursory read, this appears to be little more than blatant male chauvinism (not surprising for a patriarchal society). There probably is a lot more to it, though." CreationDate="2018-03-20T15:45:18.370" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10216" PostId="4580" Score="0" Text="Chauvinism? Patriarchal?" CreationDate="2018-03-20T15:49:15.293" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10217" PostId="4580" Score="1" Text="See https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/chauvinism &amp; https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/patriarchal." CreationDate="2018-03-20T15:55:59.193" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10606" PostId="4580" Score="0" Text="@yannis I would say that's pretty much all there is to it, actually." CreationDate="2018-05-13T09:25:29.707" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="10244" PostId="4583" Score="0" Text="Great question.  Oedipus stabs his own eyes out with a pair of golden broach pins, and this blinding gives him the &quot;second sight&quot; (to use the popular parlance) and leads to his eventual redemption at [Colonus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_at_Colonus).  But, of course, he was doubly polluted for both murdering his father and marrying his mother.  [Expiation](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/expiation) is a major aspect of most mythologies." CreationDate="2018-03-22T20:46:43.727" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10245" PostId="4583" Score="0" Text="If you haven't seen it, part of the question is addressed in [What is the meaning of Heracles' Self-Immolation?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2447/what-is-the-meaning-of-hercules-self-immolation).  I'll be returning to this when I have time to answer in detail, but in the meantime: [pharmakon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmakon_(philosophy)) / Greek root: [φάρμα](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/resolveform?type=start&amp;lookup=farma&amp;lang=greek)" CreationDate="2018-03-22T20:52:00.640" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10218" PostId="4584" Score="1" Text="This sight isn't really used for opinions, but I like to think he was a good guy. He did few things in Myth that were bad, kidnap his wife/niece, had an affair... But, his wife loves him and the affair did end when Persephone found out. A few things on why Hades is a good guy/god: let Orpheus take his wife back as long as he didn't look back (But thinking Hades was a bad guy in a way that made him think she wasn't behind him, looked back. Not Hades fault.), Heracles comes down for his 12th labor asking Hades if could borrow Kerberos (Cerberus in Latin) (he said yes, as long as he took him back" CreationDate="2018-03-20T17:11:15.840" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10219" PostId="4584" Score="0" Text="Also, when two men came down to claim Persephone as one guy's wife, he was justified in punishing them. Heracles came down and freed one, but was stopped from freeing the other because he was the one who was going to claim Persephone. Completely justified in my opinion." CreationDate="2018-03-20T17:20:44.973" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10220" PostId="4584" Score="0" Text="I read about that and I was happy that he did that, makes him a reliable deity" CreationDate="2018-03-20T17:21:24.367" UserId="4108" />
  <row Id="10221" PostId="4584" Score="0" Text="Which part? I wrote a lot." CreationDate="2018-03-20T17:23:31.340" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10222" PostId="4584" Score="1" Text="The Heracles story, he willingly let him take Cerberus, as long as he wasn't harmed. (so Heracles used no weapons to capture him, then returned him to Hades.)" CreationDate="2018-03-20T17:27:44.470" UserId="4108" />
  <row Id="10223" PostId="4584" Score="0" Text="Yes, that one. He told Heracles could have him, but had to use his bear hands. Another thing I just realized. If Hades says yes to something, there is a catch to make sure the person is deserving of his, for lack of a better word, mercy." CreationDate="2018-03-20T17:30:33.203" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10224" PostId="4584" Score="1" Text="He usually had them go on a quest to prove that they deserve what they want, and if they fail, he takes their soul.\" CreationDate="2018-03-20T17:31:30.713" UserId="4108" />
  <row Id="10225" PostId="4584" Score="0" Text="All souls, at death, go to Charon to pay a coin for passage into the Underworld." CreationDate="2018-03-20T17:36:46.603" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10226" PostId="4584" Score="1" Text="Yep, I recently drew a picture depicting what I think he would have looked like, he's a robed skeleton, (much like the American grim reaper). He has a coin in his mouth and is holding one of those really long sticks to push a boat forward." CreationDate="2018-03-20T17:39:28.397" UserId="4108" />
  <row Id="10228" PostId="4584" Score="0" Text="Opinions in chat Id say but chat is kinda dead" CreationDate="2018-03-20T22:27:43.693" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="10231" PostId="4584" Score="0" Text="People usually associated 'King of the Dead/Underworld' as 'evil.'  The Ancient Greeks didn't want to talk about him to avoid receiving his attention because they feared death." CreationDate="2018-03-21T12:49:08.550" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10236" PostId="4584" Score="0" Text="@AndrewJohnson That makes me wonder if we know of any greek temples dedicated to Hades." CreationDate="2018-03-21T18:11:21.190" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10237" PostId="4584" Score="0" Text="@NuloenTheSeeker The Necromanteion temple is one." CreationDate="2018-03-21T18:33:16.137" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10257" PostId="4584" Score="0" Text="It's a great question, and one I'd love to address in detail when I have time.  But wanted to confirm that although the Greeks had a strong sense of the binary &quot;good&quot; and &quot;bad&quot;, they don't necessarily have the same moral dimension before Plato and Christianity.  So Hades was not evil in the way the Christian ruler of the underworld is, even though the Greek underworld was the major template (see Dante's *Inferno*).  It's not unlikely the relative lack of stories about Hades have to do with a general aversion to death." CreationDate="2018-03-23T21:30:17.393" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10258" PostId="4584" Score="0" Text="You may also want to look a the Roman variants, including [Diis/Dis Pater](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C4%ABs_Pater#Mythology), sort of an underworld, anti-Zeus.  Re: &quot;Is Hades a bad guy?&quot;  He abducts and forces his niece into marriage, which is certainly unsavory, but Persephone comes to be more honored, and an entire mystery cult involving rebirth &quot;springs up&quot; around her.  (See: [Eleusinian Mysteries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusinian_Mysteries))." CreationDate="2018-03-23T21:33:57.487" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10275" PostId="4584" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou I was thinking more of how is Hades seen in popular culture, today and whatnot. Some people see him as Satan, which in the Christian sense is the worst thing to be. But Hades isn't a bad guy. Pop culture seems to think so, though." CreationDate="2018-03-26T16:03:40.100" UserId="4108" />
  <row Id="10239" PostId="4585" Score="0" Text="I wonder if [Cargo cult](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult)s qualify...." CreationDate="2018-03-21T22:12:21.637" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10241" PostId="4585" Score="0" Text="I read the link you provided, but I don't really understand it. Could you dumb it down for me?" CreationDate="2018-03-22T13:40:42.197" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10265" PostId="4585" Score="0" Text="Thule, Hyperborea, Lemuria, Mu are names perhaps worth a quick look." CreationDate="2018-03-24T15:21:04.130" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="10285" PostId="4585" Score="0" Text="@sand1 [Mu](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(lost_continent)) is based on a delusional 19th century mistranslation of Mayan writings." CreationDate="2018-03-28T22:16:12.740" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10240" PostId="4588" Score="0" Text="Make what offerings? To the gods? If cleansing themselves of murder was as easy as making offerings to the gods, couldn't they just do it themselves? Labors you also say. What labors did Copreus, Medea or Bellerophone perform?" CreationDate="2018-03-22T13:31:41.570" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10246" PostId="4588" Score="1" Text="@AndrewJohnson see: [Propitiation](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/propitiation).  The term tends to be used today in the context of existing religions, but is a central element of most religions, especially early pagan traditions, and at the core of many rituals." CreationDate="2018-03-22T20:55:39.747" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10247" PostId="4588" Score="0" Text="*Greek and Roman Necromancy* (Ogden) Princeton University Press, 2001. [Bryn Mawn Classical Review](http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2002/2002-06-19.html)." CreationDate="2018-03-22T20:58:13.827" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10248" PostId="4588" Score="1" Text="@WolvesShepard You thesis is undoubtedly correct, but you might want to consider citing a few examples from the text if you want upvotes..." CreationDate="2018-03-22T21:00:12.877" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10260" PostId="4591" Score="2" Text="I automatically upvoted because I tend to like your questions, but as I'm revisiting, I'm unsure of what you're actually asking...  Can you restate the question more clearly?" CreationDate="2018-03-23T21:42:57.940" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10268" PostId="4591" Score="0" Text="A lot of people visit the underworld or summon ghosts for some reason. I'm asking, for it is not always clear, who is going to the underworld? Who is summoning ghosts? Why are they doing these things? What are their reasons? Is it personal? Did a god tell them to? Is it some labor (Heracles) they must complete? Or is it some other reason?" CreationDate="2018-03-25T14:33:16.777" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10249" PostId="4592" Score="1" Text="Another interesting question!  Most likely, these were cities where she was patron or especially honored." CreationDate="2018-03-22T21:01:32.793" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10251" PostId="4592" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou In what ways would/could Hera have been especially honored?" CreationDate="2018-03-23T15:31:13.807" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10253" PostId="4592" Score="2" Text="Well, she was the patron goddess of marriage, which was considered a vital civic institution.  She was also the only goddess except Aphrodite who had power over Zeus. *(For Aphrodite the power involves lust, as Zeus is a notorious philanderer, but for Hera it derives from her position as wife and ability to make Zeus' life miserable.  This seems to have become a template that still exists today in the situation comedy format;)*  But many scholars also hold to the idea that the Olympian goddesses are dis-empowered versions of the earlier &quot;Great Goddess&quot; generally represented by Gaia." CreationDate="2018-03-23T19:40:35.163" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10250" PostId="4593" Score="2" Text="Wikipedia has a pretty extensive page about Easter eggs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_egg" CreationDate="2018-03-23T06:15:00.780" UserId="4766" />
  <row Id="10254" PostId="4594" Score="0" Text="Nicely thorough answer, but no actual citations.  I've started to run down reliable sources (National Geographic, Penn Museum) but this answer shouldn't be considered complete until it is fully referenced.  PS- Beautiful images, but it would be nice to know where they come from." CreationDate="2018-03-23T20:46:55.903" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10264" PostId="4594" Score="0" Text="Thanks for your contributions. I'll award the tick when I think the best answer is complete :-)" CreationDate="2018-03-23T23:37:31.963" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10266" PostId="4594" Score="0" Text="Only after the Council of Nicea in 325 did the length of Lent become fixed at forty days, and then only nominally. Accordingly, it was assumed that the forty-day Lent that we encounter almost everywhere by the mid-fourth century must have been the result of a gradual lengthening of the pre-Easter fast by adding days and weeks to the original one- or two-day observance. This lengthening, in turn, was thought necessary to make up for the waning zeal of the post-apostolic church and to provide a longer period of instruction for the increasing numbers of pagans thronging to the font for baptism." CreationDate="2018-03-24T22:24:34.410" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="10259" PostId="4595" Score="0" Text="Aah, the paradoxes of cosmology.  If you asked the same question about the real universe, scientists still wouldn't have an answer!  Aah, the paradoxes of cosmology.  If you asked the same question about the real universe, scientists still wouldn't have an answer!  Marcus Aurelius would probably say *&quot;Nothing can come out of nothing, any more than a thing can go back to nothing.&quot;*" CreationDate="2018-03-23T21:38:20.420" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10321" PostId="4596" Score="0" Text="Greek Pascha is borrowed from Hebrew Pesach. Neither has anything to do with &quot;passion&quot; (which is borrowed from Latin)." CreationDate="2018-04-05T17:53:38.243" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="10255" PostId="4597" Score="1" Text="Nice answer.  You will definitely find this article interesting: [Astraea: Star Goddess of the Golden Age](https://earthandstarryheaven.com/2015/04/01/astraea/), who is sometimes accounted as the daughter of Eos.  *(I'm personally [wondering if the names have a common Indo-European root](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2694/is-ostara-related-to-astraea/2699#2699) because of the similar phonology.)*" CreationDate="2018-03-23T21:18:16.163" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10261" PostId="4597" Score="1" Text="Are there any myths or tales linking the goddess Ishtar to Easter? (i.e. 'curious similarities' or such). While interesting, this sounds rather _apocryphal_ to me, so it is unlikely that I should accept this. Still nice answer, though" CreationDate="2018-03-23T23:05:50.860" UserId="3491" />
  <row Id="10269" PostId="4597" Score="1" Text="@Discretelizard there's a quote at the end of this article that explains the link between Ishtar and Easter.  However, I have to be honest, I question the veracity of the article itself, which also makes it seem  *apocryphal* to me as well.  https://lovetruthsite.wordpress.com/2017/04/16/happy-ishtar/comment-page-1/" CreationDate="2018-03-26T02:23:33.730" UserId="4852" />
  <row Id="10322" PostId="4597" Score="1" Text="Ishatar has nothing to do with Easter." CreationDate="2018-04-05T17:54:32.467" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="10332" PostId="4597" Score="0" Text="@fdb A simple google search will show otherwise.  At least it has been speculated. Besides, we didn't live in those times.  Who are we to say that Ishtar didn't influence Ostara, which then led to Easter?  Cultures are known to borrow from others.  So we cannot know for sure." CreationDate="2018-04-06T00:21:27.060" UserId="4852" />
  <row Id="10335" PostId="4597" Score="0" Text="@bumpy. A &quot;simple google search&quot; will also tell you that the world is ruled by lizards in human shape. Or you could consult with professional historians and linguists." CreationDate="2018-04-06T08:15:44.070" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="10336" PostId="4597" Score="0" Text="@fdb coming from the &quot;cradle of civilization,&quot; I don't see any reason why not to speculate connections with the two.  Historically speaking, everything is connected at some point.  It doesn't just come out of nowhere." CreationDate="2018-04-06T08:58:28.413" UserId="4852" />
  <row Id="10252" PostId="4599" Score="0" Text="Might want to add an English translation for the German." CreationDate="2018-03-23T15:37:37.797" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10256" PostId="4599" Score="1" Text="Nice answer.  You might also be interested in [Is Ostara related to Astraea?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/2694/2892)" CreationDate="2018-03-23T21:25:37.747" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10262" PostId="4599" Score="0" Text="Ah, so it was originally the feast of 'radiant dawn', of the coming Spring. That sounds plausible, nature worship is common and often occuring in paganism. Most 'egg searching' and 'easter bunnies' are heavily related to Spring (although the eggs are also give Christian meaning: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/4593/where-do-easter-eggs-come-from?rq=1)" CreationDate="2018-03-23T23:10:46.977" UserId="3491" />
  <row Id="10270" PostId="4599" Score="0" Text="I have accepted this answer, as it is most likely the true origin of the name. The connection with Ishtar is curious, but very likely to be _apocryphal_ at best." CreationDate="2018-03-26T07:19:59.340" UserId="3491" />
  <row Id="10274" PostId="4599" Score="0" Text="Thank you for adding the translation. I had only picked the relevant parts." CreationDate="2018-03-26T15:54:08.680" UserId="4238" />
  <row Id="10272" PostId="4600" Score="3" Text="Your question seems to imply that Athena's position as goddess of Wisdom and Warfare automatically means she is &quot;stronger&quot; than Poseidon. Why is that? Poseidon is an elder god, second only to Zeus. It's only natural that Athena will fear his wrath, something that is implied in your quote: &quot;she feared *her father's brother*&quot;." CreationDate="2018-03-26T11:22:37.447" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10273" PostId="4605" Score="0" Text="&quot;When you look up Pan, it says he and Asclepius...&quot; Could you please tell us exactly where you read that Asclepius was a god when he died. This does not appear to be the [traditional story](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepius#Death) of the death of Asclepius." CreationDate="2018-03-26T11:25:24.530" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10276" PostId="4605" Score="0" Text="@yannis Pan is the only Greek god (other than Asclepius) who actually dies. [Pan god] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(god)#&quot;The_Great_God_Pan_is_dead&quot;)" CreationDate="2018-03-26T23:32:46.633" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10277" PostId="4605" Score="3" Text="Thank you. It's a lot easier to discuss the claim now that we know its source." CreationDate="2018-03-27T08:00:21.833" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10278" PostId="4634" Score="0" Text="Of the three translations I have, Andy Orchard says &quot;board-games&quot;, Carolyne Larrington says &quot;chequers&quot;. and Lee Hollander says &quot;[draughts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draughts)&quot;. Tafl is the most likely contender, but as andejons says, we can't know for sure." CreationDate="2018-03-27T22:36:28.470" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="14439" PostId="4637" Score="0" Text="+1 for Rhea bearing a colt, then making her colt-baby Cronus-food" CreationDate="2021-05-11T15:25:18.393" UserId="8099" />
  <row Id="10280" PostId="4638" Score="2" Text="He's visiting a goddess, would you stop him? Hades's situation is similar, his wife visits him." CreationDate="2018-03-28T09:32:26.047" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10283" PostId="4640" Score="2" Text="Another interesting question!  First off, I'll point out that the rules for the gods are not the same as for mortals (Zeus marries his own sister, after all...)  This one will take a little research.  I'd highly recommend cracking Graves' The Greek Myths to run down all the sources on the variants of the story, and see what the author speculates as to the meaning, b/c poets very often have the keenest insights.  (You can use the index at the back of the text to run down every just about every mention of Poseidon, Amphitrite and Beroe in the canon." CreationDate="2018-03-28T22:01:55.583" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14533" PostId="4640" Score="0" Text="Different soures state different things: in *Hesiod's Theogony*, his wife is Amphitrite; in another source (I cannot remember), his wife is Beroe. In another source (again, I cannot remember), it said he took Gaea, the goddess of the Earth, as his consort." CreationDate="2021-06-03T10:38:04.500" UserId="7622" />
  <row Id="10282" PostId="4641" Score="0" Text="Very interesting question!  In some ways a Lit question, but here I think the intent is determining if there are potential folkloric roots." CreationDate="2018-03-28T21:57:31.827" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10284" PostId="4641" Score="0" Text="I've only ever encountered them as a type of orally transmitted anecdote. It's always struck me as a strange genre - I don't find them amusing at all. But others' taste may differ :-)" CreationDate="2018-03-28T22:04:09.800" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10288" PostId="4651" Score="0" Text="Every reproduced human culture has gender. If one didn't (how would it reproduce?), it would not be an answer to this q. Gender is the same as sex, despite the extremely recent fashionable propagation of ideas to the contrary. As for the ontological point regarding celestial bodies, the notion of &quot;the moon at different occasions&quot; implies a notion of &quot;moon&quot; over and above different occasions, which is what the question asks about. The question asks for specific mythologies, not for a reference to their existence. I will look for whether the Levi-Strauss chapter contains specific references." CreationDate="2018-03-29T09:54:27.737" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10289" PostId="4651" Score="0" Text="I don't think the statement that &quot;sometimes in one myth to the other in the same group the sun and the moon are two women or two men&quot; treats the question &quot;In what mythologies are the Sun and Moon both female?&quot; in any way, enlightening or otherwise." CreationDate="2018-03-29T11:32:03.843" UserDisplayName="user1637" />
  <row Id="10291" PostId="4651" Score="0" Text="Sancta Simplicitas!" CreationDate="2018-03-29T16:23:16.740" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="10293" PostId="4656" Score="4" Text="as far as &quot;the mortal body can only go so long without nourishment,&quot; we're talking mythology and magic. Once deities get involved, you can throw reality and consequences out the window. There are no requirements for food, water, sleep, pee breaks, etc. unless the story requires them. It's a myth, not a documentary." CreationDate="2018-03-30T09:46:46.373" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10294" PostId="4657" Score="1" Text="I was thinking about Ishtar, the Babylonian goddess of war and beauty.  And not surprised, the link to the chapter you provide talks of her." CreationDate="2018-03-30T15:10:24.093" UserId="4852" />
  <row Id="10296" PostId="4658" Score="0" Text="What makes you say the rays of the sun were outlawed in the Underworld? Didn't Helios threaten to take the sun chariot down there if Zeus didn't do as he asked?" CreationDate="2018-03-30T15:24:02.523" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10301" PostId="4658" Score="0" Text="@AndrewJohnson Yes It's supposed to have like grassy plains in there somewhere, right?" CreationDate="2018-04-01T20:59:26.867" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10310" PostId="4658" Score="1" Text="@AndrewJohnson : I was hyperbolising there. I didn't mean that there's a literal rule outlined somewhere banning sunlight from the Underworld, although the reason that Helios's threat to Zeus is scary is because the sun's light has never shone in the realm of the dead." CreationDate="2018-04-04T16:48:19.670" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10311" PostId="4658" Score="2" Text="As the sun-god tells his son Phaethon in Ovid's _Metamorphoses_, even though he, Helios, swears oaths by the name of the River Styx, he himself has never seen this river's waters. Later in the same story, when Phaethon makes a mess of driving the fiery sun-chariot, bringing it too close to the ground, its heat cracks the earth open so deep that some rays of sunlight stray all the way down into the land of darkness, at which point the dead shades are terrified and even Hades himself freaks out, again because this light has never appeared in the kingdom before, _and_ Hades prefers it that way." CreationDate="2018-04-04T16:51:20.137" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10312" PostId="4658" Score="2" Text="In place of air in the Underworld, the realm is clouded by the thick mists of Erebos, Darkness himself, who fills the domain of Hades with his presence. For the brilliant light of the sun to shine here, the integrity of the structure of the universe would be compromised, which is what makes Helios's threat... well, a threat. And hence an implied rule that the heavenly lights have their own space and place to maintain, just as Erebos has his." CreationDate="2018-04-04T16:54:01.797" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10313" PostId="4658" Score="0" Text="Having said all that, I have Edited my Answer so that it doesn't so strongly imply an explicit piece of legislation among the gods on the matter." CreationDate="2018-04-04T16:59:00.597" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11188" PostId="4662" Score="0" Text="Possible duplicate of [According to Biblical account, why fallen angels' offspring are giants? Or are they egg-born?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2715/according-to-biblical-account-why-fallen-angels-offspring-are-giants-or-are-t)" CreationDate="2019-01-13T17:21:19.600" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11191" PostId="4662" Score="0" Text="All Nephilims are Giants, not all Giants are Nephilims" CreationDate="2019-01-14T13:39:55.040" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="11961" PostId="4663" Score="0" Text="It's probably related to the highly unstable weather patterns and constantly fluctuating atmospheric conditions plaguing this particular time of the year; see also [Baba Dochia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_Dochia)." CreationDate="2019-09-27T23:49:22.750" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="10305" PostId="4667" Score="2" Text="The interpretation I took was that Hephaestus, being crippled, was the only god who *wouldn't* crush anyone who put his hands on her. She was the goddess of love and was going to take lovers anyway; why give her a crazy jealous husband?" CreationDate="2018-04-02T09:56:55.637" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10303" PostId="4668" Score="0" Text="Many thanks for this great answer, and +1, but the para after your bullet points would be more coherent if you explained &quot;*Thus, the 'poisson d'Avril' was created*&quot; and &quot;*As a result, the English were still in Lent when France was celebrating Easter*&quot;. So it started as a response to desynchronisation of year numbers in 1564 (I'd figured it might be to do with a week's holiday at New Year at the end of March, and it seems that the French were saying &quot;you still think it's New Year, haha&quot;) and then 18 years later was influenced by desynchronisation of Easter. Any more about Malta?" CreationDate="2018-04-02T08:45:16.557" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10304" PostId="4668" Score="0" Text="Your answer contains much more information relevant to the question than the Wikipedia article, but what do you say to their assertion that &quot;In 1508, French poet Eloy d'Amerval referred to a poisson d’avril&quot;? That was before the 1564 reform." CreationDate="2018-04-02T08:48:06.250" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10308" PostId="4673" Score="2" Text="Good question!  One of the aspects of the Greek canon is that the earlier generation of heroes (pre-Troy) were going around &quot;taming the world&quot; by killing many of these monsters, as were gods like Apollo (Python).  The vector is distinctly toward making the world safe for civilization.  So it makes sense that most monsters derive from the early proto-gods.  A distinction with later monsters like the werewolf (Lycaon) and Medusa were reduced to such state as punishment of the gods." CreationDate="2018-04-03T21:13:44.353" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10320" PostId="4679" Score="0" Text="The Gogmagog (and variants) of Brittanic folklore is of course based on the Gog and Magog of the Bible." CreationDate="2018-04-05T17:41:30.267" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="10326" PostId="4679" Score="0" Text="So you don't go along with the opinion expressed by Manley Pope, translator of Geoffrey of Monmouth's *Historia Regum Britanniae*, and by others, that &quot;Gogmagog&quot; derives from &quot;Gawr Madoc&quot; meaning &quot;Madoc the Great&quot;? How did a giant acquire a name that combined the names of Gog and Magog?" CreationDate="2018-04-05T18:37:40.203" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10808" PostId="4687" Score="1" Text="Updated Icarius' ancestry to include mentions of Zeus' sons Apollo &amp; Magnes" CreationDate="2018-08-21T03:03:33.180" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10809" PostId="4687" Score="1" Text="&amp; yet another river-deity" CreationDate="2018-08-21T03:52:21.350" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10315" PostId="4688" Score="0" Text="If the phrasing of this question (e.g., asking about intent) is not appropriate for this SE, please tell me so I can change it." CreationDate="2018-04-05T08:43:34.537" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10316" PostId="4688" Score="0" Text="This one is in the realm of semiotics. You're going to have a tough time finding a place where this isn't opinion-based. But it might fit here, or Literature SE (or possibly over at Skeptics SE, since you're trying to refute some modern person's statement). Here, you seem to be seeking anti-Semitic [kenning](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenning)s hidden in the story. Why don't you search the text for one or two more suspects and edit them into the question?" CreationDate="2018-04-05T09:49:28.960" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10317" PostId="4688" Score="1" Text="@Spencer - Well, the way she talked about it, it sounded pretty settled. I’m certain there’s been some scholarly work on this. I can’t find anything else obvious (but there might be something *non*-obvious, which is why I am asking)." CreationDate="2018-04-05T09:56:31.730" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10323" PostId="4688" Score="3" Text="I don't think it is a good idea to first assume some tales have antisemitic overtones and then go looking from them. Confirmation bias almost ensures you will find something that can be interpreted as antisemitic. I think the only way for clarity here is to ask the one that claims antisemitism to explain, unless this is clearly visible." CreationDate="2018-04-05T18:07:39.123" UserId="3491" />
  <row Id="10327" PostId="4688" Score="0" Text="Nearly all analysis of art is partially opinion based--it's about having insights and building a case for them. The humanities are not hard sciences, nor are they intended to be.  It's strictly interpretive and this is a valid inquiry.  (Obie is clearly not the only person thinking about this: [The Dark Side of the Grimm Fairy Tales](https://www.history.com/news/the-dark-side-of-the-grimm-fairy-tales)" CreationDate="2018-04-05T19:26:02.403" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16589" PostId="4688" Score="0" Text="Why is everyone here misspelling _Rumpelstiltskin_?" CreationDate="2024-01-10T09:07:14.903" UserId="10918" />
  <row Id="16591" PostId="4688" Score="0" Text="@AndréLevy - For the same reason that you are misspelling Rumpelstilzchen." CreationDate="2024-01-10T09:10:34.983" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="16594" PostId="4688" Score="0" Text="But I spelled it exactly like that in my [comment](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/4688/was-rumplestiltskin-intended-as-a-jewish-caricature?noredirect=1#comment16592_10786). But the spelling on English Wikipedia, for instance, is _[Rumpelstiltskin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumpelstiltskin)_." CreationDate="2024-01-10T09:41:51.270" UserId="10918" />
  <row Id="10325" PostId="4690" Score="2" Text="Perhaps it is similar to pyramids being independently discovered: simply the most effective way for primitive civilizations to achieve some goal. However, it seems unclear what the 'goal' of the swastika symbol would be." CreationDate="2018-04-05T18:17:06.783" UserId="3491" />
  <row Id="11299" PostId="4690" Score="2" Text="This gets pretty deep, and there is some serious research into symbols. High-level, without references, my understanding is that it's a basic configuration to connote cyclic model, which can reference things like eternality.  Compare to a spiral, which winds toward a center, as opposed to a pinwheel, turning on a center." CreationDate="2019-02-14T22:49:22.643" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11326" PostId="4690" Score="3" Text="It is a simple geometric shape, easy to carve and to draw (the symbol itself as well as its [negative space](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Hatisuka_manji.svg)), and easy to repeat to allow for intricate patterns. Moreover, the swastika comes in [many different styles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Appearance)." CreationDate="2019-02-20T00:12:25.997" UserId="5803" />
  <row Id="11352" PostId="4690" Score="3" Text="One of the earliest cultures that are known to have used the Swastika was a Neolithic culture in Southern Europe, in the area that is now Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, known as the Vinca Culture, which dates back around 8,000 years.The earliest swastika ever found was uncovered in Mezine, Ukraine, carved on an ivory figurine which dates back 12,000 years.&#xA;I do not have time for an answer but hope this is useful" CreationDate="2019-02-23T08:33:35.843" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="10347" PostId="4691" Score="0" Text="Do you have a specific mythology?" CreationDate="2018-04-09T14:03:50.067" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10348" PostId="4691" Score="0" Text="@NuloenTheSeeker , I don't want to limit it so, no, any mythology will be  helpful." CreationDate="2018-04-09T14:18:54.750" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10324" PostId="4692" Score="0" Text="While interesting, perhaps more relevant is to look at the 'dragons' present in the medieval herioc epics, as those are generally seem to be the 'inspiration' for most dragons in modern fantasy." CreationDate="2018-04-05T18:12:06.437" UserId="3491" />
  <row Id="10329" PostId="4693" Score="0" Text="My experience is that many Germanic surnames we think of as Jewish in the US are not exclusively Jewish.  However, many Jews converted to avoid oppression, and that history is sometimes lost.  This answer needs some support.  *(Apologies for the downvote--I will amend if you provide some research.)*" CreationDate="2018-04-05T19:35:02.687" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10338" PostId="4693" Score="0" Text="May I add that I am talking about given names, not surnames. @DukeZhou" CreationDate="2018-04-06T18:38:56.220" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="10339" PostId="4693" Score="0" Text="Edit that in and I'll remove my downvote.  (I was confused confusion b/c both also serve as surnames.)" CreationDate="2018-04-06T20:41:50.927" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10472" PostId="4693" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou: I didn't know that Kunz is a 'rare abbreviation of Konrad'; that seems like good enough research to me. Jews also converted for reasons other than oppression and many were secular - does one 'convert' to secularism?" CreationDate="2018-04-27T19:51:31.540" UserId="4068" />
  <row Id="10473" PostId="4693" Score="0" Text="@MoziburUllah that's a much more complicated question, but you should definitely research the condition of Jews in Europe during the diaspora until present day.  re: secularism, specifically in regards to German policy under &quot;national socialism&quot;, the question of &quot;jewishness&quot; was based on geneology, not religious belief." CreationDate="2018-04-27T20:12:11.667" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10475" PostId="4693" Score="0" Text="I agree that this particular story does not seem anti-semitic because, based on the specifically anti-semetic stories in Grimm, they didn't feel a need to be subtle on this subject.  (Still doesn't prove anything one way or the other, but is a legit factor for consideration.)" CreationDate="2018-04-27T20:17:35.250" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10480" PostId="4693" Score="0" Text="In later editions, when Rumplestiltskin comes the first time he gives her three days to find out his name. The first time she asks if his name is Kaspar, Melchoir, Baltazar and other names. The second time she asks if his name is Rippenbiest or Hammelswade or Schnürbein. The third time she asks if his name is Kunz or Heinz, then Rumpelstilzchen." CreationDate="2018-04-27T21:31:05.740" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="10481" PostId="4693" Score="0" Text="There is a bit more to this also. The Grimms DWB states that Kunz is the affectionate male name for Konrad. Originated not from Konrad, but from the Latin name. The explanation is many pgs long. Heinz &amp; Kunz are often used together. The names used depend on the edition. Translations may change the names. ASIDE should pro-Christian meaning be ascribed to the 3 kings names used?" CreationDate="2018-04-27T21:46:50.467" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="10483" PostId="4693" Score="0" Text="@Oliver-Grimm: The DWB entry for &quot;Kunz&quot; was published in 1873, so it has nothing to do with the Grimms." CreationDate="2018-04-27T21:52:33.533" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="10484" PostId="4693" Score="0" Text="They were the ones who began the dictionary. That is why the title is: &quot;Deutsches Wörterbuch von Jacob Grimm und Wilhelm Grimm&quot;" CreationDate="2018-04-27T22:21:36.650" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="10342" PostId="4696" Score="0" Text="If you rephrase this question, &quot;talisman&quot; will be a good term to use." CreationDate="2018-04-07T18:40:31.170" UserId="4555" />
  <row Id="10559" PostId="4696" Score="0" Text="A [rabbit's foot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit%27s_foot). And Wikipedia has full categories on [lucky symbols](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lucky_symbols) and [talismans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Talismans)" CreationDate="2018-05-08T19:00:36.387" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="10346" PostId="4697" Score="0" Text="I'm looking in Mythology, not literature." CreationDate="2018-04-09T12:30:51.700" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10349" PostId="4697" Score="0" Text="Also, how can 'dragon' be too broad of a term?" CreationDate="2018-04-09T14:20:25.867" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10350" PostId="4697" Score="3" Text="@AndrewJohnson Grimm brothers tales are a collection of folk tales from Germany and Austria-Hungary it is not &quot;fiction&quot; literature. Almost every mythology has some sort of dragon so you are asking about all dragons and their variations from the whole world, that is very broad." CreationDate="2018-04-09T15:12:45.810" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="16223" PostId="4697" Score="1" Text="@AndrewJohnson  People tend to use &quot;dragon&quot; to mean &quot;any vaguely lizard-like monster.&quot;  Hence, a &quot;dragon&quot; means anything from a brute beast to the literal devil." CreationDate="2022-12-26T00:28:54.117" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="10358" PostId="4712" Score="1" Text="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_boar#In_culture  - could this be a  starting point for composing an answer to your question?" CreationDate="2018-04-10T21:12:23.010" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="10367" PostId="4712" Score="0" Text="Didn't Persians have some proto-zodiac? Several animals in a circle and one of them was a boar. But I could be very wrong." CreationDate="2018-04-11T05:58:12.760" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="11274" PostId="4712" Score="0" Text="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Boars_in_heraldry" CreationDate="2019-02-09T06:47:25.757" UserId="3238" />
  <row Id="10369" PostId="4719" Score="2" Text="So, the reason he is called the Wanderer is because he wanders?" CreationDate="2018-04-12T18:14:54.613" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10370" PostId="4719" Score="3" Text="In some sense, yes. It is a name he uses for himself to conceal as much of his own identity as possibly, by calling himself what he appears as." CreationDate="2018-04-12T18:45:51.370" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="10657" PostId="4723" Score="1" Text="Maybe see [this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chhinnamasta)?" CreationDate="2018-05-20T06:44:42.457" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="10374" PostId="4724" Score="0" Text="You've named some useful sources but it would be great if you could somewhat expand your answer based on information drawn from these. Did Maximo lose twice?Did she offer sex or was it a classical example of rape in Greek folklore." CreationDate="2018-04-13T11:27:00.473" UserId="4934" />
  <row Id="10375" PostId="4724" Score="0" Text="@Shatov   1a) Losing and being defeated can mean different things. So, while she was defeated, she did not necessarily lose. 1b) In the first battle, she showed up with an army against one man, Digenes. Maximo thinks this unethical and faces him on his own. Digenes wins and he spares he for he beauty. I would count this as a loss. 1c) In the second battle, Maximo is disarmed, counting as being defeated. 2) She did not offer sex, rather then offer herself. At least, that is my interpretation of the following quote, &quot;You alone have conquered, you shall win me all.&quot;" CreationDate="2018-04-13T17:02:27.297" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10378" PostId="4724" Score="1" Text="That was quite convincing. I'll accept your answer as soon as you edit your answer to include your interpretation." CreationDate="2018-04-14T17:06:28.363" UserId="4934" />
  <row Id="10379" PostId="4724" Score="0" Text="@Shatov , I edited my answer." CreationDate="2018-04-16T22:26:17.410" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10371" PostId="4727" Score="2" Text="This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient [reputation](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/whats-reputation) you will be able to [comment on any post](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/comment); instead, [provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker](https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/214173/why-do-i-need-50-reputation-to-comment-what-can-i-do-instead). - [From Review](/review/low-quality-posts/3440)" CreationDate="2018-04-12T22:10:50.543" UserId="967" />
  <row Id="10377" PostId="4727" Score="1" Text="Welcome to Mythology.  As @bleh has mentioned, we tend to seek answers that have some support.  I don't disagree with the premise that you find cross-pollination in the myths of different cultures, and don't know much about the Japanese underworld, but you really need to support this answer with (ideally) academic links.  And you don't necessarily have to find a book or paper that supports the idea, but you should at least present details and citations to mythological source material to support your thesis." CreationDate="2018-04-14T01:07:48.633" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10783" PostId="4730" Score="0" Text="Had neglected to include the battle against Dionysus &amp; the petrification of Ariadne, which is now on the list." CreationDate="2018-08-01T10:36:09.987" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10411" PostId="4733" Score="0" Text="Found this amazing resource in Wikipedia: [Category:Mythology in ancient Greek pottery](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Mythology_in_ancient_Greek_pottery). Just pictures though." CreationDate="2018-04-21T03:51:38.657" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="10415" PostId="4743" Score="2" Text="My understanding was Athena escaped punishment because she was Zeus' favorite child and found it easy to escape punishment in situations like these." CreationDate="2018-04-22T22:34:29.383" UserId="4023" />
  <row Id="10428" PostId="4743" Score="2" Text="This is a really interesting question.  Heather's comment is accurate re: Athena's favored status, but let's also not forget [the prophecy that led to Athena's birth instead of a son who would overthrow his father](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metis_(mythology)).  I'd go so far as to suggest Zeus may have been reluctant to punish her, fearing her cunning." CreationDate="2018-04-23T22:09:23.147" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10429" PostId="4743" Score="0" Text="Since I was requested to do so in chat: this story is mentioned in [this wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poseidon#Walls_of_Troy)." CreationDate="2018-04-24T00:05:08.323" UserId="4023" />
  <row Id="10388" PostId="4745" Score="3" Text="What connection does this have to mythology or folklore? Do air quotes feature prominently in some culture's mythology?" CreationDate="2018-04-17T21:30:16.927" UserId="4978" />
  <row Id="10394" PostId="4745" Score="3" Text="[Folklore includes customs transmitted person-to-person](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folklore#Customs), and the [tag:folklore] tag is for &quot;questions on the traditional beliefs, customs and stories of a community or culture&quot;." CreationDate="2018-04-17T23:19:54.983" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10395" PostId="4745" Score="2" Text="Are you asking when they were first used, or when they were &quot;first&quot; &quot;used&quot;?" CreationDate="2018-04-17T23:27:32.807" UserId="4822" />
  <row Id="10396" PostId="4745" Score="1" Text="I've put scare quotes around my &quot;air quotes&quot;, but then there's the much-famed role of the reader :-)" CreationDate="2018-04-17T23:28:36.600" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10425" PostId="4745" Score="0" Text="The better question might be &quot;when were quotes first used in text.&quot;  (Certainly not in the ancient canons.  Seems to be ~1500's AD.)  Air quotes are almost certainly contemporary and only a recent custom." CreationDate="2018-04-23T19:26:04.797" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10383" PostId="4746" Score="1" Text="I wonder when Victor Borge's _Phonetic Punctuation_ skit was first performed." CreationDate="2018-04-17T14:47:45.390" UserId="4191" />
  <row Id="10387" PostId="4746" Score="1" Text="@David according to the Discography entries here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Borge a record came out in 1945 called Phonetic Punctuation part 1 and 2." CreationDate="2018-04-17T20:20:16.363" UserId="4748" />
  <row Id="10400" PostId="4746" Score="1" Text="@Bent Well spotted. Those aren't modern air-quotes (the skit involves him reading a passage from a book while drawing all the punctuation marks individually in the air and making silly noises) but it seems relevant.  He'd draw an open quote, read the quoted text, then draw the close quote, rather than simultaneously making both quote marks throughout the quote." CreationDate="2018-04-18T12:41:25.453" UserId="4191" />
  <row Id="10398" PostId="4749" Score="0" Text="Dryope _is_ mentioned in the [Hylas Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hylas#Argonauts): &quot;Heracles took Hylas with him on the Argo, making him one of the Argonauts. Hylas was kidnapped by nymphs of the spring of Pegae, Dryope, that fell in love with him in Mysia and vanished without a trace (Apollonios Rhodios)&quot;" CreationDate="2018-04-18T08:04:38.657" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10397" PostId="4752" Score="1" Text="Just as a sidenote, the word used by Hesiod is &quot;πολιοκρόταφοι&quot; (~with grey hair on the temples). Thus, the translation of the passage in Christopher Klaus' answer is closer to the original than the one Wikipedia uses." CreationDate="2018-04-18T07:36:07.510" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10399" PostId="4752" Score="0" Text="@yannis Understood. I tried finding the original Greek with a transliteration available, but to no avail." CreationDate="2018-04-18T12:38:19.313" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10401" PostId="4756" Score="0" Text="Do the parameters of your Question include scenarios in which 1 of the protagonists dies but in which his/her death has nothing to do with the love story &amp; takes place a good while after the couple has begun to be an &quot;item,&quot; so to speak? (&amp; noting as well that unless the characters in question are immortal, they will, of course, all die eventually, 1 way or another.)" CreationDate="2018-04-18T20:51:50.910" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10402" PostId="4760" Score="4" Text="Do we know that it’s *older*, though? The original Hansel and Gretel fairytale is undoubtedly older than the first written mention." CreationDate="2018-04-19T01:15:45.247" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10445" PostId="4770" Score="1" Text="As a youngster, my first exposure to this was in *[A Wizard of Earthsea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Wizard_of_Earthsea)* (Le Guin).  But I'm hard pressed to think of examples in mythological canons. Certainly there are characters in disguise, who give false names, but knowledge of the true name does not confer mystical power over the subject so much as temporal power, it seems to me.  But I could be mistaken..." CreationDate="2018-04-24T21:50:38.763" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11473" PostId="4770" Score="2" Text="@DukeZhou A common concept with daemons is that using their true name binds them or give the orator control of the said daemon (although this is also movie and novel related).  Also in Egyptian mythology Isis created a serpent to poison Ra and only gave him the antidote when he revealed his true name to her. Isis passed this name on to Horus, bolstering his royal authority." CreationDate="2019-04-09T17:37:07.957" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11512" PostId="4770" Score="3" Text="@DukeZhou That, and Rumplestiltskin." CreationDate="2019-04-19T13:30:09.990" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10408" PostId="4772" Score="1" Text="Sexual promiscuity is unfaithfulness only when one has taken some vow to abstain from it (as in the Anglican Form for the Solemnization of Matrimony: &quot;Wilt thou . . . forsaking all others, keep thee only unto her, so long as ye both shall live?&quot; &quot;I will.&quot;) What, if anything, do we know about the marriage vows of the gods? I don't think it was C of E! Even today in Greece, marriage is commonly understood as committing only the female partner to sexual exclusivity." CreationDate="2018-04-19T21:18:35.700" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="10443" PostId="4772" Score="2" Text="Thus Penelope's legendary faithfulness in contrast to her husband.  (Note that in the case of Penny, it is her cunning that allows her to keep the suitors at bay, leveraging her weaving, a source of female power in Greek myth.)  Still, Hera was not happy about the situation with her husband, regardless of the status quo..." CreationDate="2018-04-24T20:34:49.067" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10444" PostId="4772" Score="1" Text="Also, don't forget the very famous infidelities of Ares and Aphrodite, Zeus and Leto!  *(Really, &quot;Zeus and  [fill in name here]&quot; because that guy really got around;)*" CreationDate="2018-04-24T20:39:38.687" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11176" PostId="4772" Score="3" Text="In the VAST majority of the tales, Persephone and Hades are EXTREMELY faithful to each other. More than that, it’s actually a Roman fabrication, that they weren’t. So in ACTUAL Greek mythology, they were faithful." CreationDate="2019-01-05T01:16:22.067" UserId="5686" />
  <row Id="16117" PostId="4772" Score="0" Text="You need to define your meaning of counterpart." CreationDate="2022-09-10T18:55:37.437" UserId="5347" />
  <row Id="10413" PostId="4775" Score="2" Text="I'm glad you want to participate, but this is a really, really broad topic. You can read up on how to ask a question at the [help center](https://mythology.stackexchange.com), but you're going to have to do a lot of research. You could do worse than to start with the works of [Joseph &#xA;Campbell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell), who made your question his life's work." CreationDate="2018-04-22T14:14:47.147" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14231" PostId="4778" Score="0" Text="Can you source your claims?" CreationDate="2021-02-21T15:25:01.507" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14232" PostId="4778" Score="0" Text="There are sources cited, q.v. Do you mean line-by-line citations?" CreationDate="2021-02-21T17:41:04.397" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14233" PostId="4778" Score="0" Text="Maybe it's demanding too much of OP, but I would love to see sources for these where their fidelity is specifically mentioned by ancient authors. Otherwise it's an argument from silence." CreationDate="2021-02-21T19:39:19.403" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14234" PostId="4778" Score="0" Text="Well, essentially yes. I researched the listed personages &amp; found no evidence of infidelity in their mythologies, so it _is_ an interpretation on my part. &quot;Argument from silence&quot; might be a little bit strongly put but then again, I suppose, so is my statement of certainty based on absence of evidence to prove a negative. Anyway: how about my adjustment to the Answer?" CreationDate="2021-02-21T20:16:59.167" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14235" PostId="4778" Score="0" Text="Fair assessments. Kudos for doing all the research. I guess it's too much to ask to see if the ancients made specific comments about *not cheating*." CreationDate="2021-02-21T23:49:43.663" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="11754" PostId="4779" Score="0" Text="My mother (78) just told this to my father (87) over breakfast because he said he did t care if he messed up the crossword puzzle. She and her sisters were told it frequently by her late mother born 1913. Thank you for the background!" CreationDate="2019-07-24T21:23:58.397" UserId="6237" />
  <row Id="10414" PostId="4780" Score="0" Text="Many thanks for this and for that link. So there's a published reference from 1848. I'd love to learn more about the background to the rhyme in London's East End." CreationDate="2018-04-22T19:45:35.433" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10417" PostId="4780" Score="1" Text="Glad to help! It was cool to see how far back this went. I hope you get more responses!  =)" CreationDate="2018-04-23T13:22:49.980" UserId="4962" />
  <row Id="10418" PostId="4784" Score="2" Text="This reminds me (has some elements) of the Shakespeare play [*Titus Andronicus*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus_Andronicus), but instead of a king it has Tamora, the Queen of the Goths, unknowingly eating her own children." CreationDate="2018-04-23T14:27:12.067" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="10436" PostId="4784" Score="1" Text="@Rodia I agree strongly.  Shakespeare has &quot;a little Latin and less Greek&quot; and heavily influenced by Ovid.  The situation in Titus Andronicus is an analog and extension of Philomel." CreationDate="2018-04-24T18:05:31.880" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10437" PostId="4784" Score="0" Text="Good memory.  The victim in the Tantalus variant is [Pelops](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelops), founder of the House of Atreus (see my answer) and so, still connected.  Pelops was subsequently resurrected, and the shoulder that Demeter ate, in her distraction over her missing daughter, was restored.  (Demeter wasn't the target of Tantalus, and his motives are unclear, but I'm not sure she is even collateral damage in that, as a representation of the earth that yields crops, all human flesh returns to her eventually.)" CreationDate="2018-04-24T18:29:31.577" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14755" PostId="4784" Score="0" Text="The tag says Greek, but the motif occurs in Norse also, with Guðrún serving Atli their children." CreationDate="2021-12-07T22:05:56.673" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="10419" PostId="4786" Score="1" Text="There's also the story of [Thyestes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyestes) and his brother Atreus." CreationDate="2018-04-23T15:11:10.890" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10420" PostId="4786" Score="0" Text="@yannis Thyestes may be the right answer. It lacks that final battle too, but at least it has confrontation instead of ornithology :). And it's quite a larger and more important myth than this of Tereus. You should turn it into an answer." CreationDate="2018-04-23T15:32:42.013" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="10576" PostId="4792" Score="0" Text="The idea the the Neil Gaiman, the author of [this book](https://www.amazon.com/Norse-Mythology-Neil-Gaiman/dp/039360909X), got confused about who Thor is seems an unlikely explanation." CreationDate="2018-05-11T16:11:54.177" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="10586" PostId="4792" Score="0" Text="I don't think Gaiman was confused about Thor, but I think you making the connection is salient, and worthy of consideration in general.  Who knows what influenced Gaiman, but the book *[Dying for the Gods: Human Sacrifice in Iron Age &amp; Roman Europe](https://books.google.com/books/about/Dying_for_the_Gods.html?id=V6yAAAAAMAAJ)* makes a big point of excessive violence for ritual purposes in archaeological evidence for human sacrifice in Europe." CreationDate="2018-05-11T18:19:38.400" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11496" PostId="4794" Score="0" Text="god of swordsmiths and cultivation as well" CreationDate="2019-04-17T19:19:17.967" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="10452" PostId="4795" Score="0" Text="who calls it Kerboros? Literally never heard that used before" CreationDate="2018-04-26T03:00:10.883" UserId="3660" />
  <row Id="10453" PostId="4795" Score="1" Text="Kerb**e**ros, from the Greek Κέρβερος: _Kerberos_ is a closer transliteration into this Roman script of the (originally) Greek letters. _Cerberus_ is the spelling which the Romans used." CreationDate="2018-04-26T06:18:01.257" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10455" PostId="4795" Score="0" Text="It is similar in the way Hermes's staff is most popularly called the caduceus. This is it's Latin name and it's Greek name is κηρύκειον (kērū́keion/kerykeion)." CreationDate="2018-04-26T14:44:42.873" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10456" PostId="4795" Score="0" Text="Sometimes, the Latin way is 'easier' to pronounce, and that is the way most everyone knows it." CreationDate="2018-04-26T14:45:43.427" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10575" PostId="4796" Score="1" Text="I think no god was given offering in all Slavic nations. Moravian and Bohemian pagans did not give offerings, they feasted in the god's name. The sages were fed by the people on regular basis, there was no need for offerings, because there was no church." CreationDate="2018-05-11T16:04:01.080" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10594" PostId="4796" Score="0" Text="@NuloenTheSeeker ,  Even if you feast in a gods name, you can still give the gods offerings. In Greek Myth, giving an offering to a god could be as simple as saying a prayer and burning the offering." CreationDate="2018-05-12T01:37:52.467" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10600" PostId="4796" Score="1" Text="Oh, yes people prayed to gods, but they would never go and burn something. It would be considered a waste, any &quot;sacrifice&quot; would be a waste. But I read that people decorated their &quot;shrines&quot;. So if you consider that an offering, then there you go. All gods that held importance would have decorated shrines during certain times of the year. Lada and Mokosh, Perun and Svarog, Radegast, Morana(winter solstice was celebrating Morana), Veles. Every god would have decorated shrines if they were present. Sorry, But without sources I can't make it into an answer. I will try to find them." CreationDate="2018-05-12T09:55:44.247" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10431" PostId="4797" Score="0" Text="How does horizontal water mean waterfalls when waterfalls are vertical?" CreationDate="2018-04-24T17:23:01.063" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10440" PostId="4799" Score="2" Text="We like academic citations ;)  My effort on your answer reflects the quality of this Q/A, where the corollary answers also comment on the main answer." CreationDate="2018-04-24T20:16:14.790" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14754" PostId="4799" Score="1" Text="The killing and serving of Thyestes' sons was itself revenge for Thyestes' cuckolding of Atreus, and so not the first manifestation or cause of the curse, which goes back at least to the killing and serving of Pelops." CreationDate="2021-12-07T22:00:51.733" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14753" PostId="4801" Score="0" Text="The funny part is that of all the mythological examples given, you picked the one that's from a historian! And it's not the only incident of this kind in Herodotus!" CreationDate="2021-12-06T21:22:07.170" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="10450" PostId="4803" Score="2" Text="Could you possibly provide a link to an article describing this legend? I personally have never heard of it." CreationDate="2018-04-26T01:27:10.067" UserId="4023" />
  <row Id="10458" PostId="4803" Score="0" Text="William Blake refers to it in &quot;Jerusalem&quot;, when he asks whether &quot;those feet&quot;, meaning Jesus's, walked in England in ancient time. Two articles are [here](http://www.storyline-features.co.uk/glastonbury.htm) and [here](https://www.scribd.com/document/377482530/A-W-Smith-And-Did-Those-Feet). Jesus is said to have visited the village of Priddy and other sites." CreationDate="2018-04-26T15:23:25.937" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10454" PostId="4809" Score="2" Text="There's a U.S. regional phrase &quot;the devil is beating his wife,&quot; but I don't know the origin." CreationDate="2018-04-26T10:07:25.653" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10459" PostId="4811" Score="1" Text="Many thanks for this, although you have got it slightly wrong about the Glastonbury Thorn, which is said to have grown not from Jesus's staff, if he carried one, but from his uncle Joseph of Arimathea's." CreationDate="2018-04-26T15:27:00.780" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10460" PostId="4812" Score="0" Text="See: [Anachronism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anachronism) (Greek Mythology is full of them;)" CreationDate="2018-04-26T19:49:32.647" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10461" PostId="4812" Score="0" Text="PS- Welcome to Mythology!  You'll likely get more upvotes if you provide some supporting links (academic links and peer-review sources are preferred, but Wikipedia can be sufficient, so long as the articles have citations for the material utilized.)  Nevertheless, solid commentary." CreationDate="2018-04-26T19:53:41.973" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10738" PostId="4813" Score="0" Text="1. I can't see any significant connection with sexuality in Radegast. 2. I am wondering if this is a legacy of a single goddess cult. Then it would really answer the question. And many mythologists consider these some of these goddesses are the same figure. 3. Also, it can be interesting if sexuality really is connected with domination and consequently war. Then it would be merely a descriptive coincidence. That people say in mythology what they find to be true." CreationDate="2018-06-27T21:22:01.343" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="10468" PostId="4814" Score="1" Text="The only thing I would have to say is that there is a big pattern of associating war with sexuality explicitly. Freya, Astarte, Inanna, and even more fertility gods and goddesses associated also with war. The idea of the cycle which you propose could also play a factor in that as well. Such as peace and war also being a sort of cycle in that regard." CreationDate="2018-04-27T18:32:59.723" UserId="4379" />
  <row Id="10477" PostId="4814" Score="0" Text="@NoahSullivan The extension to relationship with war is interesting and worth exploring.  You'll also want to look at the tripartite Irish war goddess, [The Morrígan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morr%C3%ADgan).  Also, the relationship of [Medb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medb) and [Ferdia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdiad), which leads to Ferdia's death." CreationDate="2018-04-27T20:27:11.630" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10574" PostId="4816" Score="1" Text="Evil masterminds just like to place their fingers like that." CreationDate="2018-05-11T15:59:54.407" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="11193" PostId="4816" Score="0" Text="There is a very interesting history of formal gestures in Ancient Greece and Rome in regard to rhetoric and oratory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chironomia" CreationDate="2019-01-14T21:36:43.380" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10466" PostId="4820" Score="0" Text="haha. nice.  definitely worth looking at.  (This is not my field of focus, but i do find i often have to explain to the &quot;casual audience&quot; the distinctions between androids and cyborgs, and how only the former is a class of robot;)" CreationDate="2018-04-27T17:57:54.720" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10486" PostId="4820" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou ,  android-  AI in a humanoid (2 arms, 2 legs, 1 head...) robot body,... cyborg- organism (human/animal/insect) improved by cybernetic replacements...  This is my understanding between the two. Am I wrong?" CreationDate="2018-04-28T00:03:08.250" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10819" PostId="4820" Score="0" Text="That is also my understanding of the cyborg/android distinction.  (Of course, we rarely see cyborgs with an organic body and machine brain, as opposed to the other way around...)" CreationDate="2018-08-28T21:18:21.123" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10839" PostId="4820" Score="0" Text="https://youtu.be/KawjY0PK7A8" CreationDate="2018-09-06T20:06:17.397" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10465" PostId="4821" Score="0" Text="Off-hand, my guess is the curretn popularity of this concept is due to the 1982 film [Poltergeist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poltergeist_(1982_film)).  The formalization of the idea probably arose out of [Spiritualism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualism), and anecdotal accounts of near-death experiences reporting a &quot;light at the end of the tunnel.&quot;" CreationDate="2018-04-27T17:53:03.347" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="15850" PostId="4821" Score="0" Text="This might help: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/314848/light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-earliest-occurence" CreationDate="2022-02-03T17:12:01.353" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="10469" PostId="4822" Score="1" Text="This is intriguing, but a little hard to follow. You can use a `&gt;` at the beginning of a paragraph to produce nice-looking quotes. Also, some evidence of your credentials would be ideal (though not required). Are you Oliver Loo?" CreationDate="2018-04-27T19:04:23.887" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10470" PostId="4822" Score="0" Text="Also, the Jewish element of the Jew in the Thorns being added later (possibly in response to anti-Jewish sentiment), and the fact that the target was originally a *different* hated minority, seems to strengthen, not weaken, the already strong evidence for anti-Semitism in the text." CreationDate="2018-04-27T19:08:58.620" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10476" PostId="4822" Score="0" Text="Welcome to Mythology and thanks for contributing!  (Always nice to have an expert chiming in.)  This is an excellent answer on many levels.  Due to the length, you might consider some formatting to highlight the major points." CreationDate="2018-04-27T20:21:51.817" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10478" PostId="4822" Score="0" Text="Thanks. Yes, I am he. Can you give me some pointers on formatting? I will fix it as I can. Anti-semitism is a large question. Why do some people always concentrate on this text as the example? Why not also ook at KHM #115 where the wife of a man who killed a Jew tells her friend/godmother of the murder. She then tells the whole city of the murder. The man is then brought to a court of law, convicted and executed? In this text, an entire town and justice system can be said to &quot;disapprove&quot; of the murder. Order matters too. This was only 3/5 texts after KHM 110." CreationDate="2018-04-27T21:05:14.287" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="10479" PostId="4822" Score="0" Text="Were there texts in the KHM that we today in America consider anti-Jewish? Yes. Did Jacob and Wilhelm use language in their personal correspondence that can be considered anti-Jewish today? Yes. Does this mean they (one or both) were anti-Jewish? Don't we need more evidence? Were they actually anti-Jewish? I don't know. I do know that Jacob was very knowledgeable in the Hebrew language, Jewish religion, customs, writings and beliefs. The KHM does contain several references to Jewish texts. Should this not also be considered when answering the question?" CreationDate="2018-04-27T21:20:21.137" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="10489" PostId="4822" Score="0" Text="Oliver, the fact that there was a Grimm tale that was against anti-Semitism doesn't necessarily mean much. They were collecting stories that they didn't necessarily agree with (whether 110, 115, or both)." CreationDate="2018-04-28T03:18:15.820" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10840" PostId="4823" Score="0" Text="Do you think this demonstrates any difference between the words?" CreationDate="2018-09-06T20:07:51.333" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10842" PostId="4823" Score="0" Text="You misunderstood the question I asked Andrew. The definitions in his response show that there is _no difference_ between &quot;ghost&quot; and &quot;phantom&quot;, at least as far as Mythology SE is concerned. _That's_ the answer to your question. But Andrew has to come out and say that, or provide something convincing to make the answer different." CreationDate="2018-09-07T10:45:52.590" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10500" PostId="4824" Score="0" Text="Θάλεια to *Thalīa* is a very standard transformation on the standard route from Greek to English via Latin. It is accompanied by a shift in accentuation from the antepenult (third-to-last syllable) to the penult (second-to-last syllable). Greek ει generally transliterates into Latin as ī, which in the penult must take the accent in Latin. The same thing happens with Ιφιγένεια becoming Iphigenīa." CreationDate="2018-04-28T12:35:14.217" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="10511" PostId="4824" Score="0" Text="@BrianDonovan I don't disagree, just that, who made the call when opening up the wiki for this?  It confused me because I had to reconcile the source with the spelling of the wikipedia page.  If would be another story if the wiki had reference to peer reviewed papers making a link between the Muse/Grace Thalia and the nymph Thaleia (so that the confusion is warranted.)   I'll also note that, although Theoi is not an academic site, I've found it to be quite reliable, and the main stub there uses &quot;Thaleia&quot;" CreationDate="2018-05-01T20:19:42.803" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10512" PostId="4824" Score="0" Text="@BrianDonovan Essentially, the only reference to this nymph comes from an 1873 dictionary of mythology, referencing commentary on a lost play.  The source (*A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology*, Smith) is available online at Perseus, where the entry is listed as &quot;Thaleia&quot;: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0104%3Aentry%3Dthaleia-bio-3" CreationDate="2018-05-01T20:26:31.237" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10487" PostId="4825" Score="0" Text="Why are you talking about Jewish representations of Satan here, specifically? I was more interested in Christian (although Muslim would also work)." CreationDate="2018-04-28T03:09:22.900" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10488" PostId="4825" Score="0" Text="And your quote about Judaism is not correct. *The* most famous she-devil, Lilith, is heavily tied to Jewish tradition. It also seems to think polytheism is newer than monotheism. ..which is odd." CreationDate="2018-04-28T03:10:45.023" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10490" PostId="4825" Score="0" Text="If you want to discuss this in [chat], feel free." CreationDate="2018-04-28T03:21:46.193" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10491" PostId="4825" Score="0" Text="This is what Grimm wrote about the subject. Sorry if it is not what you are looking for." CreationDate="2018-04-28T03:57:29.680" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="10492" PostId="4825" Score="0" Text="Grimm does not seem to classify Littlith as a devil. He mentions her in a section under creation as a rabinnical myth as the first woman created in the same way as Adam from the earth." CreationDate="2018-04-28T04:12:38.883" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="10493" PostId="4825" Score="0" Text="Lilith isn’t the *Devil*, no. And she’s not what I am looking for here. But she’s a devil *figure*. She represents a similar archetype. Looking at what Jacob writes afterward, he seems to be talking about female folkloric figures in general. He talks about Grendel’s mother, for instance." CreationDate="2018-04-28T05:29:03.310" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10494" PostId="4825" Score="0" Text="That’s why he says, “…all power for good or evil it places in the hands of male beings.” And that’s what my comment responds to, since there is no doubt that the folkloric Lilith possesses power (for evil). Then, also, the conception of God and angels, though often associated with male pronouns and stereotypically masculine attributes, has been that God lacks human gender for much longer than people realize. You seem to be an expert on the works of Grimm, but one needs to look much further than that for a full accounting of gender in Judaism (or indeed Christianity)." CreationDate="2018-04-28T05:34:03.610" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10495" PostId="4825" Score="0" Text="Also, the Kabbalistic tradition, a form of Jewish mysticism with heavy influence on European Jewish thought from the 1300s onward (was Grimm familiar with this?) speaks of the Shekhinah, or female Divine Presence, the female aspect of God. Now, I’m not going to deny that there’s a long vein of marginalization of women in monotheistic traditions, but polytheistic traditions can experience the same problem, and things (as they generally are) are much more complicated." CreationDate="2018-04-28T05:39:22.787" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10496" PostId="4825" Score="0" Text="And even the Biblical Eve herself (Chava), though often vilified in Jewish and Christian thought alike, must certainly be said to have possessed power. The traditional conception is that, by choosing to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, she lost humanity’s immortality and closeness to God." CreationDate="2018-04-28T05:43:26.483" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10501" PostId="4825" Score="0" Text="Sorry, I can only tell you what Grimm wrote about it. His book is specific to German mythology, but he also looks at many other sources and ideas. Feel free to disagree with Grimm if you are more knowledgeable on the subject than he was. I am only passing on what he wrote about it. What he wrote was written in the 19th century. Modern scholarship might have new and different ideas. Maybe someone else with more knowledge of the subject can answer the question then." CreationDate="2018-04-28T14:39:55.213" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="10502" PostId="4825" Score="0" Text="Shekhinah - I don't know. There is no entry with that spelling in the books. The source was listed above, so you can look if there is anything useful for you there if you like. His sections on the Devil, Gods, Godesses, etc., is extensive." CreationDate="2018-04-28T14:40:30.687" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="10689" PostId="4826" Score="0" Text="nice.  I'd always heard that rain was god peeing when I was a kid, but I don't think it was restricted to sun showers only." CreationDate="2018-05-30T20:15:56.763" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10573" PostId="4828" Score="1" Text="I think its obviously &quot;propaganda&quot; both Russians and Byzantines were in contact with tribes that made kefir since time immemorial. So it would be like giving them yeast." CreationDate="2018-05-11T15:57:47.777" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="11938" PostId="4832" Score="0" Text="(a). Judges come in odd numbers, so as to ensure that a decision will always be reached; also, two pairs of eyes are better than one; hence, the need for (at least) three individuals. (b). If they ruled men in the world, they are then obviously the most suited to do so in the netherworld as well. (c). Since deities are the ultimate rulers, human rulers are always associated with them; in this particular case, with Zeus, specifically. (d). People don't always listen to reason (Radamanthus), and death does not make anyone smarter, so laws and decisions still have to be (re)enforced; hence Minos." CreationDate="2019-09-27T09:06:50.303" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="10505" PostId="4835" Score="2" Text="&quot;In Greek culture, it was frowned upon (to put it lightly) if a woman died in child birth&quot; [citation-needed]" CreationDate="2018-04-30T20:23:58.140" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10509" PostId="4835" Score="0" Text="@yannis , I forget where I read it and can't seem to find it again." CreationDate="2018-05-01T01:12:17.923" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10516" PostId="4835" Score="0" Text="Are you asking exclusively about Greek myths for this Question?" CreationDate="2018-05-02T06:06:26.183" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10517" PostId="4835" Score="0" Text="An answer doesn't specifically have to be Greek in origin, but how the cultures views a woman dying in childbirth would have to be included in an answer." CreationDate="2018-05-02T15:50:00.577" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10513" PostId="4840" Score="0" Text="Frustrating that the article has no citations, but seems to be a reliable source." CreationDate="2018-05-01T21:29:18.680" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10514" PostId="4845" Score="0" Text="So his only reason for not using his bolts is fear?" CreationDate="2018-05-02T01:17:05.463" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10520" PostId="4845" Score="0" Text="In this one case, according to Ovid. (Apologies for the limited answer.  I'm sure there are more examples, just that very little of my research subsequent to university involves Zeus' stories.  *[I'd highly recommend the compendium &quot;The Greek Myths&quot; (Graves) because he aggregates all of the stories and includes an extensive index. It's still the best resource in terms of comprehensive treatment of the canon, imho, and my first stop when running down citations for uncited material on the internet.])*" CreationDate="2018-05-03T17:42:32.747" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10523" PostId="4847" Score="1" Text="Very interesting question.  Conflation of myths is a labyrinthine subject, but always worth exploring!" CreationDate="2018-05-03T17:54:02.983" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10524" PostId="4848" Score="0" Text="There are contributors on this forum that know a great deal more about Mithraism than I, and have made the point that it influences the Christian conception of absolute good and evil.  My understanding is that the nemesis is [Ahriman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angra_Mainyu), which is equivalent to the [Ahura Mazda](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahura_Mazda)/Angra Mainyu dichotomy.  I'm not qualified to write in much detail about Mitra–Varuna, but I will be quite interested in the formal answers.  Welcome to Mythology!" CreationDate="2018-05-03T18:10:54.510" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10526" PostId="4848" Score="1" Text="*Mitra-Varuna* is a classic book by Georges Dumezil (easily found online). Please note that the Indian name is written Mitra while Mithra is the persian (the latin is Mithras); there is a recent book &quot;Images of Mithra&quot; (Oxf. 2017) which gives a broad perspective and provides a wealth of historical material (e.g. about Miiro in Bactria, Mihr in Iran)." CreationDate="2018-05-03T20:47:03.437" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="10529" PostId="4848" Score="0" Text="[Full text of &quot;Georges Dumézil Mitra Varuna An Essay On Two Indo European Representations Of Sovereignty (1990)](https://archive.org/stream/GeorgesDumzilMitraVarunaAnEssayOnTwoIndoEuropeanRepresentationsOfSovereigntyZoneBooks1990/Georges%20Dum%C3%A9zil-Mitra-Varuna_%20An%20Essay%20on%20Two%20Indo-European%20Representations%20of%20Sovereignty-Zone%20Books%20%281990%29_djvu.txt)  But I'd still love to see some formal answers here on Stack!" CreationDate="2018-05-03T20:56:38.750" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13906" PostId="4848" Score="0" Text="&quot;*Mithra isn't worshiped at all*&quot; Really? Consider some attributes of the religion:  &#xA;— icons feature him sitting at a feast&#xA;— catechism mentions &quot;linen&quot;, &quot;wrapped&quot;, &quot;savior&quot;, &quot;drink and food&quot;, …&#xA;— ceremonies involve a cup and bread&#xA;— temples were enclosed for private ceremonies (other religions used public displays)&#xA;— initiates made their way through grades, up to &quot;Father&quot;&#xA;— &quot;Fathers&quot; wore mitres, elaborate jeweled robes, and a ring&#xA;— he was born in a cave, on December 25" CreationDate="2020-09-27T14:04:30.947" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="10528" PostId="4850" Score="0" Text="Well, the ghosts in the Odyssey gather to drink fresh goat's blood, as I recall.  The Chinese underworld must feature food b/c in the opening of the Journey to the West, there's a scene where they kill a guy so he can deliver a message to the judges in the underworld, asking if there's anything they want, and they say pumpkins, because it's the only melon they don't have down there." CreationDate="2018-05-03T20:53:49.433" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10527" PostId="4851" Score="1" Text="When I have some time, I can look into the Latin and Greek words used, and give you an analysis.  (I know what you're talking about, but if you can provide citations to the source material, it would expedite the process...)" CreationDate="2018-05-03T20:49:29.047" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10579" PostId="4852" Score="0" Text="Nice one, bleh!  I'd say, in this case, it actually raised the status of Dionysus as &quot;twice born&quot;." CreationDate="2018-05-11T16:55:59.070" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10590" PostId="4853" Score="0" Text="Truly great question, but I'd need more information on the [Gascon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basques) version.  It's a great riddle, but not so central as the canonical riddle (&quot;the only question worth asking&quot; re: the Delphic Maxim [γνῶθι](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3Dgignw%2Fskw) [σεαυτόν](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3Dseautou%3D)  &quot;know thyself!&quot;)  I don't recall coming across the Gascon version in the formal Greek canon, though." CreationDate="2018-05-11T19:40:09.010" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10533" PostId="4855" Score="0" Text="Hello and welcome to Mythology Stack Exchange. The point of an answer is to sufficiently explain and satisfy the question to the point the questioner doesn't have to look anything up, save for fact checking. Fact checking is usually easier when links are provided to the place you got the information. NOTE: A link only answer will be down voted and most likely deleted. If you wish to provide a link with useful and relevant information, but not an anwser, you have to build up sufficient reputation to comment on posts other then your own." CreationDate="2018-05-06T23:49:10.400" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10539" PostId="4859" Score="1" Text="Could you please point us to a source (or two) where Sophrosyne &quot;is expressed in opposition to the concept of hubris&quot;." CreationDate="2018-05-07T08:23:55.197" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10540" PostId="4859" Score="0" Text="@yannis  , one of Dictionary.com definitions for Sophrosyne is discretion (the power to decide according to one's own judgment). One of hubris definitions is arrogance (offensive display of superiority).&#xA;&#xA;The merriam-webster dictionary defines Sophrosyne as 'prudence —contrasted with hubris'" CreationDate="2018-05-07T13:53:04.280" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10541" PostId="4859" Score="0" Text="Or, something other than a definition... http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-sop1.htm" CreationDate="2018-05-07T13:53:29.493" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10542" PostId="4859" Score="0" Text="I don't see how the modern definitions are relevant here. Do you have any source that indicates the _ancient Greeks_ believed Sophrosyne to be the opposite of hubris?" CreationDate="2018-05-07T14:43:21.370" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10543" PostId="4859" Score="1" Text="@yannis , http://home.earthlink.net/~dbscr/Sophros.htm  ...  'Arrogance, insolent self-assertion, was the quality most despised by the Greeks. Sophrosyne was the exact opposite.' ... Hubris in ancient Greece meant arrogance against the gods, which, in term, can plainly mean arrogance. The quote and link above says Sophrosyne is the exact opposite of arrogance." CreationDate="2018-05-07T15:17:08.247" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10547" PostId="4859" Score="1" Text="This is a good answer, although I still think &quot;humility&quot; is the proper opposite.  But I'll have to build a case, as you have here!  I think your answer is correct in the context of how sophrosyne could be used, relating to temperance as discretion and conduct (moderation in all things!), where hubris is an excess or extreme--a lack of discretion due to unmoderated pride." CreationDate="2018-05-07T21:29:05.147" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14274" PostId="4859" Score="1" Text="@yannis https://archive.org/details/sophrosyneselfkn00nort/page/10/mode/2up?q=hubris" CreationDate="2021-03-02T13:00:35.400" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14275" PostId="4859" Score="1" Text="Plato contrasts the two in Phaedrus [237e](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg012.perseus-eng1:237e)-[238a](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg012.perseus-eng1:238a) @yannis" CreationDate="2021-03-03T21:23:42.883" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="14306" PostId="4859" Score="0" Text="I agree, this is a good answer.&#xA;I've been looking for a word that describes the humbled and reasoned behaviour of one that has learned what it's like to suffer or be without, and because of this, is more humble, calm and accepting of future misfortune. In that sense Sophrosyne gets close but doesn't have the underlying clarity from suffering as part of it in the same way that hubris has underlying blindness from good fortune." CreationDate="2021-03-02T08:49:17.607" UserId="7777" />
  <row Id="10534" PostId="4863" Score="0" Text="That's interesting. I've heard the using straws, but not gems. Citation please." CreationDate="2018-05-06T23:55:48.587" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10535" PostId="4863" Score="0" Text="Back then in B.C. there were no straws. Nobody invented the straw until the 1800's. Also, using common sense how would the gods choose there domain by the length of the straw." CreationDate="2018-05-07T01:37:06.797" UserId="5034" />
  <row Id="10538" PostId="4863" Score="0" Text="From the 1800's date, I'm assuming you are talking about drinking straws. Well, the oldest one we know about was found in a Sumerian tomb, dated 3,000 B.C.E. That said, straw in context means dried stalks of grain. In any case, please consider backing up the gem story with a solid source, preferably one that points to ancient texts." CreationDate="2018-05-07T08:20:31.330" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10566" PostId="4863" Score="0" Text="Yes I mean a drinking straw and by the way my information is backed up  with more than one source. I used textbooks, history books, bibliographies of the Greek gods,etc." CreationDate="2018-05-09T23:09:57.767" UserId="5034" />
  <row Id="16031" PostId="4863" Score="0" Text="@Player That may be, but those sources aren't made clear in the post. I believe that is what yannis was asking for." CreationDate="2022-07-05T23:24:42.197" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="10544" PostId="4865" Score="1" Text="[Ovid, *Metamorphoses*, 12.316 ff.](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0028%3Abook%3D12%3Acard%3D316)" CreationDate="2018-05-07T21:16:30.633" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10537" PostId="4866" Score="1" Text="The question asks for mythology that is _unique_ to Scottish people. Is that the case with the creatures you list?" CreationDate="2018-05-07T08:10:29.940" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10545" PostId="4866" Score="0" Text="@yannis Kelpies and Selkies are also Irish for sure. Can't say for the remainder." CreationDate="2018-05-07T21:18:22.217" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10548" PostId="4866" Score="1" Text="@DukeZhou First sources led me to think they were, but you are right those two weren’t unique." CreationDate="2018-05-08T04:06:41.400" UserId="4962" />
  <row Id="10552" PostId="4866" Score="0" Text="Kelpies and elves are not mythology." CreationDate="2018-05-08T17:19:04.827" UserId="4555" />
  <row Id="10556" PostId="4866" Score="0" Text="@HarryMacpherson but they are a part of folklore!" CreationDate="2018-05-08T18:25:21.110" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10567" PostId="4866" Score="1" Text="@Gilbert Added some of your suggestions.  Thanks!  =)" CreationDate="2018-05-10T04:40:14.753" UserId="4962" />
  <row Id="10591" PostId="4866" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou - Yes, I know, but look at what the question asks." CreationDate="2018-05-11T22:02:18.083" UserId="4555" />
  <row Id="10597" PostId="4866" Score="0" Text="@HarryMacpherson I'm not sure I follow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_mythology  Folklore is a form of mythology, and I'm confident  the OP was using the term in the wider sense." CreationDate="2018-05-12T02:44:47.217" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11499" PostId="4869" Score="0" Text="Abe no Seimei is a famous supposed descendant of a Kitsune mother. He gained incredible magical abilities and there is an interesting pair of movies based on his life. I actually haven't heard of anything other than a human kitsune pair bond, but that doesn't mean there isn't." CreationDate="2019-04-17T19:29:58.297" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="10550" PostId="4870" Score="0" Text="beyond rabbits=fertility=spring, you mean?" CreationDate="2018-05-08T09:58:58.053" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10551" PostId="4870" Score="0" Text="Yes of course. Few questions regarding origins of specific cultural behaviours, calendrical or otherwise, can properly be answered with such statements of equality." CreationDate="2018-05-08T12:17:09.937" UserDisplayName="user1618" />
  <row Id="10589" PostId="4871" Score="1" Text="Colors definitely have symbolism.  Try googling symbolism of these colors in Japanese culture." CreationDate="2018-05-11T19:19:01.747" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11494" PostId="4873" Score="0" Text="It's called a Hoshibana. I used to know more about this but i would have to go dig through notes" CreationDate="2019-04-17T19:11:34.120" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="11507" PostId="4873" Score="0" Text="@EvilJinious1 I looked that up and got a kite festival. I added kitsune and got... other things" CreationDate="2019-04-18T21:37:04.243" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="11510" PostId="4873" Score="0" Text="sorry, I was in a hurry and misspelled. It is a Hoshi no tama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsune#Hoshi_no_tama)" CreationDate="2019-04-19T01:25:15.780" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="10588" PostId="4874" Score="1" Text="Good question.  The number likely has significance, but strict base 10 is not so common in terms of magic numbers, in my experience.  Look into numerology." CreationDate="2018-05-11T19:18:22.327" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10598" PostId="4874" Score="5" Text="This isn't a Japanese tradition but actually a Chinese one that became known in Japan. So @DukeZhou the reason for &quot;1000&quot; is not so much about magic number as it is that &quot;thousand&quot; is a single character in Chinese and used figuratively to designate &quot;great numbers&quot;. The original source material is better translated as &quot;After reaching an ancient age, the fox reaches the heavens and become a celestial fox.&quot;" CreationDate="2018-05-12T06:19:50.367" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="10603" PostId="4874" Score="2" Text="@Semaphore I stand corrected.  *(Numerology certainly plays an important role in Chinese mythology dating back to the [Lo Shu Turtle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lo_Shu_Square), but here your making the point that 1000 is being used euphemistically. This reminds me of wider usage of the Roman numeral M, and I will also note that in Chinese martial folklore, the idea of &quot;training for 10 years&quot; has become something of a trope!)*" CreationDate="2018-05-12T23:28:39.760" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11960" PostId="4874" Score="1" Text="Each century, except the last, they grow a tail, nine in total. During the last century of the millennium, instead of growing yet another tenth tail, they ascend to heaven instead." CreationDate="2019-09-27T21:50:01.310" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="10587" PostId="4875" Score="1" Text="You may also want to look at Fox Spirits in Chinese mythology--major part of Chinese folklore" CreationDate="2018-05-11T19:15:40.003" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10562" PostId="4876" Score="0" Text="?? What research say this? Kitsune weren't &quot;witch animals&quot;, they were messengers of the harvest god." CreationDate="2018-05-09T09:37:43.950" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="10563" PostId="4876" Score="0" Text="The mention of the Edo period comes from the Kitsune Wikipedia and the notes about being seen as familiars is on the Witchcraft Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft#Japan" CreationDate="2018-05-09T15:53:04.500" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10564" PostId="4876" Score="0" Text="That's a rather bad article (lack of references is a sign). There are no close analogs in Japan to the western witches. *Kitsune-mochi* and *tsukimono-suji* both refers to **[spirit possessions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_possession)**, not witchcraft or familiars. The exact details vary from region to region - some are said to cause sickness; others are sort of a guardian spirit that enriches their family only to bankrupt them later on, etc - but the fox spirit (various names include yako, ninko, osai, or kudakitsune) **do not** assist in using any magic the same way familiars do." CreationDate="2018-05-09T17:57:42.027" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="10558" PostId="4879" Score="1" Text="Nice one.  I've heard that beans are considered lucky in Japan, but never heard about this custom!" CreationDate="2018-05-08T18:37:21.623" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10583" PostId="4882" Score="0" Text="PS- please link to God of War.  is this the Korean television show?" CreationDate="2018-05-11T17:08:33.610" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10584" PostId="4882" Score="0" Text="I've often wondered about this myself, re: Old Testament, but there, we'd need to at the Hebrew *and* the commentaries...  You may also want to research [syncretism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism)" CreationDate="2018-05-11T17:10:40.353" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10582" PostId="4884" Score="0" Text="Buddhism is ultimately atheistic, but I take your point. Also, it is my understanding that Judiasm was not so strictly monotheistic in the very early period.  [Solomon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon#Sins_and_punishment) is interesting in this regard, having &quot;turned his heart to other gods.&quot;" CreationDate="2018-05-11T17:07:39.587" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10764" PostId="4884" Score="0" Text="The Bible also mentions two people, whose names I don't remember, being mistaken as Zeus and Hermes by a crowd and the crowd trying to make sacrifices to them." CreationDate="2018-07-14T05:00:06.807" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="10572" PostId="4891" Score="1" Text="Thanks for the great answer and links!  (Can't access the de Jong text, but still quite a useful citation.)  This question could use your expertise: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/4848/relationship-of-mithra-and-varuna" CreationDate="2018-05-11T15:54:39.063" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10623" PostId="4891" Score="0" Text="@Gibet You're right. Wikipedia article on [Cyrus the Great](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great#Religion_and_philosophy) even states this: &quot;Though it is generally believed that Zarathushtra's teachings maintained influence on Cyrus' acts and policies, so far no clear evidence has been found to indicate that Cyrus practiced a specific religion. Pierre Briant wrote that given the poor information we have, 'it seems quite reckless to try to reconstruct what the religion of Cyrus might have been.'&quot;" CreationDate="2018-05-15T13:56:57.453" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="10592" PostId="4893" Score="0" Text="I did read the article. How do you think I was able to ask 6 questions in a row about the Kitsune? lol. Part of the reason I ask this question, it doesn't mention if or how a Kitsune can be killed or die (save for being separated from its star ball for too long)." CreationDate="2018-05-12T01:29:19.010" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10593" PostId="4893" Score="0" Text="I guess I could be asking for a way other then separating them from their star balls" CreationDate="2018-05-12T01:34:05.377" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10599" PostId="4893" Score="0" Text="It is a spirit. It has potential to become something like a deity. I don't think there would be any more weaknesses. I am doing a little bit of digging and I hope I can find something more. But this weakness seems pretty solid from a storytelling standpoint." CreationDate="2018-05-12T09:38:07.407" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10585" PostId="4894" Score="1" Text="Gaiman is one of the best purveyors of new mythologies that carry the &quot;ring of truth&quot; imo, leading to the confusion.  Czernobog will certainly be associated with a hammer going forward, I suspect!" CreationDate="2018-05-11T18:16:26.040" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10578" PostId="4895" Score="1" Text="Welcome to AI and thanks for contributing!  Ideally, we prefer references to source material or academic site and resources.  (Modern mythology seems to be on-topic, so tropes are suitable, but the citations from that site not-optimal because they link to sub-pages on the site, which is non-academic.)" CreationDate="2018-05-11T16:48:08.557" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10580" PostId="4895" Score="0" Text="it's not that the information on TV tropes is necessarily inaccurate, just that the are no citations for peer-reviewed or source material." CreationDate="2018-05-11T17:01:07.873" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10595" PostId="4897" Score="0" Text="So even though she was held captive, attendants looked after her. She begged one to have the incriminating cloth delivered to her sister. But does this mean she begged for herself to go or have the attendant give the cloth to her sister? (Still a little confused on that part.)" CreationDate="2018-05-12T01:54:52.687" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10596" PostId="4897" Score="1" Text="Begged to have the attendant see it delivered as a gift to her sister the queen.  (Pity is a major theme in this work of Ovid's, and what strikes me most about the text, even in translation, is immediacy of Philomel's extreme predicament.  It's this same pity that compels Juno to finally forgive Hercules in his extremity. So my theory is that was what compelled the attendant to promise the poor mad woman a harmless favor.)   Apollodorus is even less descriptive: &quot;But by weaving characters in a robe she revealed thereby to Procne her own sorrows.&quot; 3.14.8&#xA;*Library*, trans. Frazer" CreationDate="2018-05-12T02:18:22.567" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10602" PostId="4900" Score="0" Text="Yahoo Answers has a similiar question: [If Angels can fall from God can Demons rise to heaven?](https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20151221151520AAsuvjk&amp;guccounter=1)" CreationDate="2018-05-12T20:17:19.033" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="10613" PostId="4900" Score="4" Text="&quot;It eventually becomes a demon.&quot; Do you have a source for this?" CreationDate="2018-05-14T11:52:44.117" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10634" PostId="4900" Score="1" Text="Perhaps this should be on Christianity.SE; there are certainly differing opinions." CreationDate="2018-05-17T09:09:04.873" UserId="131" />
  <row Id="10635" PostId="4900" Score="1" Text="@TimLymington We try to tread lightly when talking about Christian mythology because not all adherents appreciate this conception or approach." CreationDate="2018-05-17T16:07:35.343" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10739" PostId="4900" Score="1" Text="AFAIK, humans are not gone to hell until the last judgement. This makes paragraphes 2 and 3 false. Indeed, if paragraph 3 is false, question acquires another meaning. And, well, christianity does not even give an answer where did the angels come from, as well as demons." CreationDate="2018-06-27T22:09:28.973" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="10609" PostId="4901" Score="0" Text="This is a wonderful theory, well thought out and well presented!" CreationDate="2018-05-13T20:36:27.653" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10611" PostId="4902" Score="0" Text="Hi, and welcome to Mythology SE. Stack Exchange is a Q&amp;A site, where users vote on the best and most useful answers. We try to avoid &quot;list&quot; questions because you aren't going to get a &quot;best&quot; answer in a list; they are all valid responses." CreationDate="2018-05-14T10:04:03.517" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10627" PostId="4902" Score="0" Text="I think it has been done. See Aarne-Thompson-Uther Classification of Folk Tales. http://www.mftd.org/index.php?action=atu. Looks to be 2399 pages long. Almost every tale has some or many similarities with other tales. See aslo Johannes Bolte's Anmerkungungen to the Grimms KHM Märchen. He lists similar tales from through out the world to most of the KHM texts.Sometimes there are 50 or 100 or more with different similarities." CreationDate="2018-05-15T19:57:04.230" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="10610" PostId="4903" Score="3" Text="Your premise is faulty. To paraphrase the BBC's Sherlock, love can be a vicious motivator. The whole story about the Sacred Band of Thebes was that people will fight more fiercely to defend a beloved than just another soldier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes Being the goddes of love does *not* make her far from being a war goddess. The opposite of love is not war; it's indifference." CreationDate="2018-05-14T10:01:50.737" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10643" PostId="4903" Score="1" Text="@LaurenIpsum  My professors taught that Aphrodite was the only goddess with real power over Zeus *(because she has control of the &quot;little brain&quot; men are often prone to thinking with;)*" CreationDate="2018-05-17T19:52:12.173" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10645" PostId="4903" Score="0" Text="See my note on Rodia's answer." CreationDate="2018-05-17T20:01:00.440" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10628" PostId="4906" Score="2" Text="Note that standard Jewish theology does not consider Satan or Moses as having &quot;defeated&quot; God, despite the Scriptural implications." CreationDate="2018-05-15T21:53:33.427" UserId="5017" />
  <row Id="10859" PostId="4907" Score="0" Text="-1 Due to lack of sources; especially doubt that snakes symbolised anything (except maybe foreign culture) in pagan Ireland considering the lack of snakes." CreationDate="2018-09-26T10:04:56.947" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="10644" PostId="4909" Score="2" Text="And also, Helen, described by Marlowe in his [Faust](https://poetrytreasures.wordpress.com/2015/12/31/was-this-the-face-that-launchd-a-thousand-ships/) as *&quot;the face that launch'd a thousand ships, and burnt the topless towers of Ilium&quot;*, is an avatar (semi-divine) of Aphrodite.  No Aphrodite, no Trojan war. No Trojan war, no glory for the [Hellenes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaeans_(Homer)).  Helen is, after all, accounted the daughter of Zeus, like her brother [Polydeuces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castor_and_Pollux)." CreationDate="2018-05-17T19:54:43.477" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10615" PostId="4916" Score="3" Text="I had to downvote because you do not cite the source of the quote &quot;...we learn that the gods have decided not to save mankind from an impending flood.&quot;  Add the citation and I will change my vote." CreationDate="2018-05-14T18:26:08.660" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10619" PostId="4916" Score="0" Text="Related: [What caused the Deluge?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/1274/what-caused-the-deluge)" CreationDate="2018-05-15T00:18:32.697" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="10642" PostId="4916" Score="2" Text="Re: Gibet's comment -- that's why I was mentioning the importance of citation, even if the sentence comes from the wiki.  (Otherwise, this question is unreliable.)" CreationDate="2018-05-17T19:49:33.273" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10640" PostId="4917" Score="0" Text="My only argument is that I think this does constitute legit folklore in the sense of &quot;traditional beliefs, customs and stories of a community&quot;, certainly in the context of Spiritualism and it's modern extensions.  See: [orgone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone) for a version of the proto-concept, also [&quot;animal magnetism&quot;](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_magnetism).  Magnets still have use today in forms of faith healing, and this may to date to the [discovery of magnets](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/can-magnets-heal/), which would have been seen as having magical properties." CreationDate="2018-05-17T19:43:50.757" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10616" PostId="4920" Score="0" Text="I like this one because it's all about utility :)" CreationDate="2018-05-14T20:56:05.510" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10652" PostId="4923" Score="0" Text="Interesting, but she's not worshipped as a god... I'm starting to think &quot;Metal Arm God&quot; is only a thing in (Northern?) Europe for whatever reason." CreationDate="2018-05-19T11:08:00.087" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="10651" PostId="4925" Score="1" Text="A recent scholarly paper on the subject: https://archive.org/details/TheNameOfTheBlackSea2007" CreationDate="2018-05-19T10:58:28.577" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="10782" PostId="4925" Score="0" Text="Even more discussion of color-direction associations is found in the Wikipedia article on the [White and Blue wings of the Golden Horde](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wings_of_the_Golden_Horde)." CreationDate="2018-08-01T06:25:06.377" UserId="4667" />
  <row Id="11644" PostId="4925" Score="0" Text="And Wikipedia's article on the Slavic god [Svetovid](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Svetovid&amp;oldid=901744853): &quot;A statue portraying the god shows him with four heads ... The northern face of this totem was white (hence White Ruthenia and the White Sea), the western red (hence [Red Ruthenia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ruthenia)), the southern black (hence the Black Sea) and the eastern green (hence [Green Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Ukraine)).&quot;" CreationDate="2019-06-19T05:11:46.933" UserId="4667" />
  <row Id="16164" PostId="4925" Score="0" Text="Yet another discussion (such as it is) on /r/badlinguistics: [&quot;The Turks named the Black, Red, Mediterranean and Caspian Sea because Turkic languages associate cardinal directions with colours. Never mind that they were all named before the Turks arrived, e.g. the Achaemenids called the Black Sea Axšaina (Persian for 'black') in 500BC.&quot;](https://old.reddit.com/r/badlinguistics/comments/motpin/the_turks_named_the_black_red_mediterranean_and/)" CreationDate="2022-10-18T21:08:56.113" UserId="4667" />
  <row Id="10631" PostId="4929" Score="1" Text="If you add some of these other references you mention at the end of your answer, you have my upvote." CreationDate="2018-05-16T23:05:20.887" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="10632" PostId="4929" Score="1" Text="ok, links added." CreationDate="2018-05-17T01:15:44.423" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="10641" PostId="4931" Score="0" Text="This is a really perceptive question, and I couldn't answer without some research." CreationDate="2018-05-17T19:46:36.937" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10647" PostId="4931" Score="1" Text="Wikipedia is often dubious on non English subjects, but you especially shouldn't take unsourced claims on it at face value. Which temple is built facing the *kimon*? Certainly nothing comes to my mind - most of them faces south. However, temples are sometimes built **in the direction** of the *kimon* (from a city, or complex), e.g. Enryaku-ji is to the northeast of Kyoto, in order to provide protection. This might be the cause of the original editor's confusion. Incidentally, the temple's main hall faces due east." CreationDate="2018-05-18T11:13:13.567" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="10650" PostId="4932" Score="0" Text="Marantega and tooth mouse are almost the same thing as the tooth fairy. I think its possible that the traditions directly inspired the &quot;american&quot; tooth fairy given the similarities. Also what is up with psychoanalysts seeing penises in everything." CreationDate="2018-05-19T07:51:21.857" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="10659" PostId="4941" Score="0" Text="Could you expand a little on option three? What do you mean by, &quot;taken up directly into the stars?&quot;" CreationDate="2018-05-21T14:43:41.987" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10660" PostId="4941" Score="1" Text="@AndrewJohnson Unfortunately, I don’t have full access to The Classic Review. Perhaps someone else does and can add further details." CreationDate="2018-05-21T18:36:13.043" UserId="4962" />
  <row Id="14578" PostId="4941" Score="0" Text="1] Megapenthes was not a Greek but a Roman myth&#xA;2] He didn't killed himself with Medusa's head. He had given it to Athena&#xA;3] He was taken up directly into the stars (becoming a constellation along with Ariadne). That is not HOW he died. That's what happened when he died. Gods sent the couple to the stars. But we don't know really how he died, except that he died old. I am not sure where this is told, but that's how I know the myth." CreationDate="2021-08-19T00:59:03.840" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="10725" PostId="4942" Score="0" Text="Try **Theresa Bane**'s (2013) &quot;**Encyclopedia of Vampire Mythology**&quot;, it is well-researched and you should find all the answers you need." CreationDate="2018-06-19T07:22:24.047" UserId="3373" />
  <row Id="10674" PostId="4943" Score="0" Text="Well vampires are considered demons, a blood sucking demon. So are you just saying that she was a demon and not a vampire demon?" CreationDate="2018-05-25T18:15:45.487" UserId="5035" />
  <row Id="10714" PostId="4943" Score="0" Text="If it is immortal and is a blood sucker, you can call it any name you want... but for me it falls under the general concept of vampire." CreationDate="2018-06-07T20:44:31.513" UserId="4962" />
  <row Id="10715" PostId="4943" Score="0" Text="Your definition of vampire comes into saying they are not demons. Then what species would they be classified as? Vampires have been around for a long time and re regarded as being demons. They are not a made up story how the media tries to make them out to be. For an example when involving Vampire magick it is usually involving a ritual to Lucifer." CreationDate="2018-06-08T13:47:56.027" UserId="5035" />
  <row Id="13535" PostId="4944" Score="0" Text="Added a (_sort of_ Christian) Mediaeval [version of the] story" CreationDate="2020-04-30T09:04:53.627" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10847" PostId="4945" Score="0" Text="Your quotation doesn't appear to be more than a general statement about to the Bhagavad-Gita. It doesn't pertain to the question, which is about mortals going to war against gods. Could you please edit in a more pertinent quote describing the &quot;action&quot; you allude to?" CreationDate="2018-09-15T22:03:08.597" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11340" PostId="4946" Score="3" Text="On what mythology do you want to know that?" CreationDate="2019-02-22T08:58:37.033" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11344" PostId="4946" Score="3" Text="could you quote the grimoire?" CreationDate="2019-02-22T14:13:23.740" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11345" PostId="4946" Score="5" Text="&quot;Genesis&quot; from [The Preacher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preacher_(comics)#Plot) (a product of the forbidden union between an angel and demon.)" CreationDate="2019-02-22T19:01:30.793" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11353" PostId="4946" Score="2" Text="@DukeZhou wouldn't this be a 33% human aswell?&#xA;Since Jesse got posessed." CreationDate="2019-02-23T08:57:17.080" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11361" PostId="4946" Score="2" Text="@Tom that's a good question!  My thought there is 1/4 angel, 1/4 demon, 1/2 human." CreationDate="2019-02-24T22:10:01.233" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10663" PostId="4947" Score="1" Text="Welcome to mythology.  We have Norse experts who can address these topics, but andejons is correct that you must split this question into two questions: glaciers/ jötunn and Germanics/Ragnarök." CreationDate="2018-05-22T19:18:25.760" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10664" PostId="4947" Score="1" Text="Ye, I just split them: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/4949/the-meaning-of-ragnar%C3%B6k-for-the-germanic-peoples" CreationDate="2018-05-22T22:33:51.840" UserId="5073" />
  <row Id="10661" PostId="4948" Score="0" Text="Well, there is a tree, but as the other images seem to be connected to the legend of Sigurd, why should we suppose that it is Yggdrasil, and not the tree from which the birds spoke to him when he had slain Fafnir?" CreationDate="2018-05-22T11:36:50.637" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="10667" PostId="4948" Score="0" Text="@andejons If the recreation is truthful to the original, isn't the fact there is a giant serpent surrounding the stone (i. e. the world) and tangled in the roots of the tree, and a bird at the top, a strong indication it is intended to be Yggdrasil?" CreationDate="2018-05-23T10:51:51.850" UserId="111" />
  <row Id="10668" PostId="4948" Score="0" Text="@plannapus Well, no: A bird in a tree is a motif on several runestones, but they are generally interpreted as one of the events in the Sigurd legend. There is also a figure holding out his thumb next to it, which reinforces this interpretation. The serpent surrounding the runes should rather be interpreted as Fafnir (at the very top, there seems to be an arm with sword wounding it). See [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd_stones#S%C3%B6_101) for examples (In particular, the stone from Årsunda has a very similar set of tree, bird, and man with thumb, and not much else)." CreationDate="2018-05-23T11:06:18.903" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="10666" PostId="4949" Score="1" Text="Cause I could only broadly find that it may go back to Iceland's volcanos or a former similar Indogermanic believe." CreationDate="2018-05-23T08:54:15.090" UserId="5073" />
  <row Id="10670" PostId="4949" Score="1" Text="This might also come to involve Wagner...  (See: [Götterdämmerung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tterd%C3%A4mmerung) &quot;twilight of the gods&quot;)" CreationDate="2018-05-23T20:48:37.150" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10704" PostId="4949" Score="0" Text="&quot;In Christian mythology the revelation is basically there to fear the people from going against the Christian way and otherwise ending up in hell&quot;&#xA;&#xA;I Guess this is your understanding, not every religious (christian) people will consider what you are saying. There is exoteric reading and esoteric reading on the bible just to start. So your question is bound to a relative wrong premise." CreationDate="2018-06-04T00:20:55.617" UserId="1315" />
  <row Id="10779" PostId="4949" Score="0" Text="The point is after Ragnarök will become a nicer, better world. If we are staying with your logic, it is like when Jesus comes one more time in Christianity (judges livings and deads)." CreationDate="2018-07-25T07:51:38.857" UserId="5221" />
  <row Id="10914" PostId="4949" Score="0" Text="&quot;[Charles XII's] people, the Swedes, may have kept in their bloodstream some part of the pessimistic Titanism of the Vikings—the only men who ever dared to believe in the religion that everything, gods and men and matter, would end&#xA;badly.&quot; (Bolitho, *Twelve Against the Gods*)." CreationDate="2018-10-13T18:57:29.080" UserId="5454" />
  <row Id="10676" PostId="4957" Score="0" Text="I'm not sure that you need &quot;Ice Age glaciers&quot;, or anything connected with the last glacial maximum, for there to be a connection between giants and glaciers. The remaining mountain glaciers would have been impressive enough." CreationDate="2018-05-27T16:22:42.987" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10677" PostId="4957" Score="1" Text="In short, I think your answer's wording needs to be shaded away from &quot;no&quot; and more towards &quot;there's no way to tell&quot;." CreationDate="2018-05-27T16:24:30.007" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10678" PostId="4957" Score="0" Text="The question specifically mentioned &quot;glacial periods&quot;, i.e. Ice ages." CreationDate="2018-05-27T16:27:46.927" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="10679" PostId="4957" Score="0" Text="Of course you have to address that. But it's only peripheral to the original question." CreationDate="2018-05-27T17:22:10.853" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10680" PostId="4957" Score="1" Text="It's covered in one paragraph, albeit the very first one, since I choose to organize the matter chronologically. I can not see how I could make that part of the answer much shorter and still establish that there is no overlap between the Ice age and anything that is even vaguely connected to Frost giants." CreationDate="2018-05-28T08:24:24.033" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="12341" PostId="4957" Score="0" Text="Interesting and relevant information and sources. But the wording for &quot;no&quot; is too strongly states as a fact and not as the interpretation/conclusion of the author as it is. Imho a better wording would be &quot;Again, I see no reason to connect it to glaciers&quot; and &quot;I see no direct reason, ...., to suppose any connection between frost giants and glaciers&quot;" CreationDate="2020-02-08T10:36:25.630" UserId="2897" />
  <row Id="10691" PostId="4958" Score="0" Text="+1 for Ēostre..." CreationDate="2018-05-31T21:21:28.873" UserId="5105" />
  <row Id="10686" PostId="4961" Score="1" Text="For Aphrodite, *éros*, no question.  For *philía*, only Artemis comes to mind because she is known for roaming the wilderness with her companions, where fondness is implied. [*Agápe*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agape#Early_Uses) does not seem to apply to any god or goddess in the Greek pantheon, and is used mainly in the New Testament.  *Storgē* could be applied to Zeus in relation to Athena, but perhaps no other.  (I may do a formal answer, but it would require running down source material to support--thought you'd appreciate a quickie answer in the meantime:)" CreationDate="2018-05-30T19:41:18.077" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10688" PostId="4961" Score="1" Text="On reflection, there is an earlier use of agape http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Da)ga%2Fph related to husband and wife. But Hera is the goddess of marriage, and hers is one of strife (see Hesiod on choosing the wrong life-partner;) Nevertheless, Hera is the one instance of a Greek god showing agape in the Christian sense, when she forgives Hercules on his pyre in the Ovid, which is published ~8 years after the given date for birth of Jesus, and a couple decades before the crucifixion." CreationDate="2018-05-30T20:02:34.690" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11690" PostId="4961" Score="1" Text="https://mrgntmthy.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/agape-goddess-of-divine-love/&#xA;Just came across this link &amp; thought it might be usefull to share in this subject _/\_" CreationDate="2019-07-03T22:29:10.320" UserId="6192" />
  <row Id="10685" PostId="4962" Score="0" Text="ideally a smaller photo of the foot with a detail of the mark would be better.  That massive of your foot is just too much!" CreationDate="2018-05-30T19:30:10.290" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10705" PostId="4969" Score="0" Text="Jocelyn M. Woodward, *Perseus: A Study in Greek Art and Legend*, (1937/ Cambr.), is a short study relating various versions of the Perseus story and commenting representations: &quot;*Harpe*, the sword with which Perseus slew medusa. Greek art shows it first straight, then sickle-shaped and finally a mixture of both.&quot; (p.98) And perhaps answering the question &quot;if&quot; that continues by &quot;could that mean&quot; is not really interesting." CreationDate="2018-06-01T21:09:56.017" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="10706" PostId="4969" Score="0" Text="@sand1 Quote from the web [mythology.net](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:b33Fpxb8ALQJ:https://mythology.net/greek/heroes/perseus/+&amp;cd=18&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=es): &quot;Hermes gave Perseus his winged sandals for speed and **the sickle that had been used by Cronus to castrate his father**.&quot; The link is to Google cache, as I get the &quot;This site can't provide a secure connection&quot; error." CreationDate="2018-06-05T18:22:02.313" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="10707" PostId="4969" Score="0" Text="@sand1 This detail of the story seems to be being copied and pasted around. Quick example from the [Malta Classics Association](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aPfSQL9okXcJ:classicsmalta.org/perseus/+&amp;cd=19&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=es): &quot;Hermes gave him a pair of winged sandals and the scythe that Cronus used to liberate certain appendages from his father.&quot;" CreationDate="2018-06-05T18:22:25.133" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="10708" PostId="4969" Score="0" Text="@sand1 There's also a mention about both sickles being the same in [The Origin of Pagan Idolatry ascertained from Historical Testimony and Circumstantial Evidence, vol. II](https://books.google.es/books?id=9KVZAAAAMAAJ&amp;pg=PA441&amp;lpg=PA441&amp;dq=perseus+sickle+cronus&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=CzuWzB-VO8&amp;sig=gwdW5FdKoXGHc6mLE3hFm6mStjM&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjy55_Cir3bAhXCuBQKHdkYD-04ChDoAQhPMAU#v=onepage&amp;q=perseus%20sickle%20cronus&amp;f=false), by  XIX century theologian George Stanley Faber." CreationDate="2018-06-05T18:22:50.720" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="10709" PostId="4969" Score="0" Text="@sand1 I also want to point that both sickles are adamantine, and from using them 1) Aphrodite and 2) Pegasus and Chrysaor were born. There's also a direct family link between Cronus and Perseus." CreationDate="2018-06-05T18:23:07.263" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="10710" PostId="4969" Score="0" Text="@sand1 So it could be argued that the last line alone makes for another question, but hardly that it's not interesting, **specially in a Mythology site**." CreationDate="2018-06-05T18:23:40.093" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="11942" PostId="4969" Score="0" Text="Many bladed weapons evolved from primarily agricultural objects, later employed in combat." CreationDate="2019-09-27T11:20:18.993" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="10718" PostId="4972" Score="0" Text="My understanding is that most of this material comes from commentaries or apocrypha.  (You may want to ask over on [SE:MiYodeyah](https://judaism.stackexchange.com/).  Despite common mythology surrounding Hell in the Old Testament, there are only a few, indirect references to sheol, etc., and the expansion of these concepts to the Greek Hades does not derive from the Old Testament proper." CreationDate="2018-06-13T21:37:32.523" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10793" PostId="4972" Score="0" Text="Have you visited sacred-texts.com ? They have a vast collection that is searchable from the main page, as well as by categories." CreationDate="2018-08-11T03:31:27.877" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="10727" PostId="4976" Score="0" Text="Did it aid the crops?" CreationDate="2018-06-21T21:27:43.193" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10702" PostId="4977" Score="2" Text="When posting things you found on the internet, **always** give proper credit to the author and site where you found the text. For more details see: [How to reference material written by others](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/referencing)" CreationDate="2018-06-03T10:49:09.917" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10717" PostId="4984" Score="1" Text="Solid reasoning.  I'd also suggest that such sacred cattle may have been allowed roam free in some sacred precinct, distinct from mundane cattle that are herded with a goad." CreationDate="2018-06-13T21:33:16.700" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10719" PostId="4984" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou yeah, that's a good point too." CreationDate="2018-06-14T08:49:09.713" UserId="3662" />
  <row Id="10721" PostId="4992" Score="0" Text="You should only have one question in a post. Please place your second question in a separate post." CreationDate="2018-06-14T23:30:17.160" UserId="4962" />
  <row Id="10722" PostId="4992" Score="2" Text="@ChristopherKlaus it seems to me these questions are all related to the single topic of the Norse underworld.  imo, removing the followup questions weakens any answer." CreationDate="2018-06-15T21:20:56.963" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10732" PostId="4994" Score="2" Text="This is about right. We know that Baldr and his wife Nanna had a reasonably comfortable life in Hel, as honoured guests of Hel herself. (Yes, the ruler of Hel is called Hel. She's Loki's daughter, and there's considerable discussion about which came first, the goddess or the place.) In the *Prose Edda*, Snorri Sturluson describes Hel's daily existence as comfortless and cold, but he was a Christian writing for a post-conversion audience." CreationDate="2018-06-25T00:22:01.463" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="10735" PostId="4994" Score="0" Text="@solsdottir thanks for the comment.  Answer amended, with excerpt!" CreationDate="2018-06-25T18:05:54.303" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10740" PostId="4994" Score="1" Text="[This paper](https://www.academia.edu/23704747/_The_gendering_of_death_in_eddic_cosmology_in_Old_Norse_Religion_in_Long-term_Perspectives_Origins_Changes_and_Interactions_ed._Anders_Andr%C3%A9n_Kristina_Jennbert_and_Catharina_Raudvere_V%C3%A4gar_til_Midg%C3%A5rd_8_Lund_Nordic_Academic_Press_2006_pp._54-57) by Judy Quinn has more about Hel and the afterworld generally." CreationDate="2018-06-28T00:46:01.877" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="10744" PostId="4994" Score="0" Text="@solsdottir grrr.  now I'm going to have to do some actual research and likely further amend.  *(thanks for the link! :)*" CreationDate="2018-06-28T16:28:01.123" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11339" PostId="4995" Score="1" Text="I see why many consider Origen a heretic" CreationDate="2019-02-22T02:17:13.800" UserId="3947" />
  <row Id="10743" PostId="5000" Score="1" Text="Well, in Russian Zeus' lighnings are called 'perun's. Of course this gives obvious parallels." CreationDate="2018-06-28T09:45:17.357" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="10728" PostId="5001" Score="3" Text="Not 100% sure, but I'd say it's a local thing. For example, a classic belief in Christian Catholic parts of Germany makes Saint Peter responsible for the weather, while classic German folklore has Mother Hulda send the snow in winter." CreationDate="2018-06-24T06:47:15.257" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="10746" PostId="5010" Score="0" Text="The Greek gods used to give favors (powers) to some of their beloved mortals as gifts, so I don't think there's a specific ur-myth where this started." CreationDate="2018-07-01T13:25:07.780" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10747" PostId="5010" Score="2" Text="As far as I can tell, it's a conflation of the modern mythologies surrounding &quot;[sex magic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_magic)&quot; and ancient pagan fertility rituals.  *(I'll attempt a formal answer at some point.  It's interesting to consider the extension of this concept to monotheistic religions--in the Catholic church, nuns are considered married to God, although there, it is the sacrifice of sex, abstinence, that confers spiritual power.)*  The modern attraction to this concept likely involves appeal of the idea and weaker modern taboos regarding sexuality." CreationDate="2018-07-05T19:05:18.907" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13744" PostId="5010" Score="0" Text="Don't depend on a Greek god for power - it was always even odds them if it was going to get you killed, turned into a monster, etc. Witchcraft mythology (not fact) suggested witches gained their powers from having orgies with Satan, devils, and the like.  (google it, the references are all over the place; I'm not sure which you'll want) This is pretty generic https://www.britannica.com/topic/witchcraft" CreationDate="2020-07-31T17:59:45.220" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="10750" PostId="5018" Score="0" Text="Great question!  Trolls make appearances at in the sagas, but I'm not aware of mentions in the earlier [Eddic poems](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetic_Edda) which had a mytho-religious function.  There is much folklore that arises after the sagas.  Trolls are famously treated by Heinrich Ibsen in his early verse drama [Peer Gynt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_Gynt) which leads Grieg's hugely popular musical composition [In the Hall of the Mountain King](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Hall_of_the_Mountain_King)." CreationDate="2018-07-09T21:42:28.750" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10749" PostId="5023" Score="0" Text="Are you asking how closely Gaiman's book keeps to the traditional mythology?" CreationDate="2018-07-09T21:17:26.037" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10751" PostId="5023" Score="0" Text="May be. I want to know whether Book of neil gaiman describes about all possible myths and adventures compared to other" CreationDate="2018-07-10T07:45:48.413" UserId="5193" />
  <row Id="10752" PostId="5024" Score="0" Text="Does it contain all possible stories and myth ?" CreationDate="2018-07-10T07:46:29.967" UserId="5193" />
  <row Id="10754" PostId="5024" Score="1" Text="@melvin &quot;All possible stories and myths&quot; is simply too broad. The Prose Edda is one of the original sources of these myths, but there will be other sources and traditions." CreationDate="2018-07-10T09:58:36.243" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10756" PostId="5024" Score="2" Text="@melvin Not all, but surely the material you will be most interested in.  (In some sense, the modern novel has roots in the Icelandic sagas, and Snorri's text is highly readable, even today.  By contrast, the Poetic Edda doesn't have the same narrative appeal.  [Saxo Grammaticus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxo_Grammaticus) also wrote on these subjects in the [Gesta Danorum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxo_Grammaticus#Gesta_Danorum), but more in the context of the history of Danish kings.)" CreationDate="2018-07-10T17:16:58.670" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10767" PostId="5024" Score="1" Text="Agreed. Gaiman's work is probably a good starting point if you want just the stories. There might be a few choices in interpretation, but unless you are doing academic work, it's not a big deal. Snorri's work should still be accessible to a layman, and contains most, but not quite all, known stories, but also quite a bit of other material. I'd suggest you check out the links given above.If you think itäs too much of a slog, try Gaiman's book instead." CreationDate="2018-07-16T12:32:55.287" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="10753" PostId="5026" Score="2" Text="Just geographically it's a reasonably quick journey from the Viking lands (Norway, Sweden, Denmark) to the Celtic/Pict ones (Scotland, England), so it's not surprising that there's overlap. [Also, why else would the adult Vikings in *How to Train Your Dragon* have Scottish burrs?]" CreationDate="2018-07-10T09:56:57.820" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10781" PostId="5026" Score="2" Text="@LaurenIpsum as well as the fact that Vikings invaded the Celtic lands (albeit by this time Celtic paganism was barely being practiced, if at all). It's understandable that they would pick up the old mythology of the places they invaded. I'm still looking for a more specific answer though." CreationDate="2018-07-28T07:27:57.210" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="10761" PostId="5031" Score="0" Text="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_syncretism#Ancient_history" CreationDate="2018-07-12T20:32:30.203" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10762" PostId="5031" Score="2" Text="@Spencer That is related, but that page or [the one on *interpretatio Graeca*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretatio_graeca) doesn't seem to give any indication to when the identification started." CreationDate="2018-07-12T20:36:31.940" UserId="5199" />
  <row Id="10771" PostId="5032" Score="1" Text="nice one! *&quot;When Demeter was wandering in search of her daughter, she was followed, it is said, by Poseidon, who lusted after her. So she turned, the story runs, into a mare, and grazed with the mares of Oncius; realizing that he was outwitted, Poseidon too changed into a stallion and enjoyed Demeter.&quot;* *[Pausanias 8.25](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0160:book=8:chapter=25)*   Possibly she is omitted from the Egyptian transformations due to the lack of an Egyptian horse-goddess." CreationDate="2018-07-16T18:19:26.833" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10929" PostId="5032" Score="0" Text="What could be inferred by, &quot;likeness of a Fury?&quot; What does/can that mean?" CreationDate="2018-10-17T23:40:54.680" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10765" PostId="5034" Score="2" Text="Most films about the 1001 Nights are made for children, and I doubt anyone would want their child to hear stories about how this great king killed his wife everyday." CreationDate="2018-07-14T05:01:26.057" UserId="3244" />
  <row Id="10766" PostId="5034" Score="1" Text="Not a film, but Nikolai Rimski-Korsakov's symphonic suite _[Scheherazade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheherazade_(Rimsky-Korsakov))_ does exactly this." CreationDate="2018-07-14T11:21:05.840" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10770" PostId="5035" Score="0" Text="It may have something to do with the idea of [Sirens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siren_(mythology)) luring men to their doom. Although the sirens are winged, sailors were their targets." CreationDate="2018-07-16T18:05:54.217" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10772" PostId="5035" Score="0" Text="The physical creature which led in part to the myth of mermaids is the manatee, which traditionally doesn't wear clothing." CreationDate="2018-07-17T09:50:37.120" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10768" PostId="5036" Score="0" Text="Sadly I'm after the first of the two. Looks like I'll have to write another question :D" CreationDate="2018-07-16T15:44:06.773" UserId="409" />
  <row Id="10769" PostId="5036" Score="1" Text="@Pureferret It might be worth looking into the etymology, re: andejons note on the &quot;magic&quot; being derived from &quot;troll&quot;." CreationDate="2018-07-16T18:03:55.003" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10774" PostId="5038" Score="1" Text="Welcome to Mythology!  *(Nice question.  It would be even nicer if you could provide a text excerpt from the video, as most won't watch it.  Regardless, see my answer below.)*" CreationDate="2018-07-19T21:28:26.813" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10777" PostId="5042" Score="0" Text="I suspect this is the modern conflation of two unrelated legends, linked by the common element of the gold." CreationDate="2018-07-24T21:57:58.883" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10778" PostId="5042" Score="0" Text="[HowStuffWorks](https://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/atmospheric/10-rainbow-myths1.htm) has a legend involving Vikings, but unfortunately the link to the source it cites is broken." CreationDate="2018-07-24T22:01:35.917" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10817" PostId="5042" Score="0" Text="I've been researching this on and off for a while, and I've found a lot of interesting things about leprechauns, but I haven't been able to find an answer. It is a very interesting topic and question though, so I'm very interested to see if anyone can actually find the answer. In the meantime I'll continue looking myself, but I'm not sure I'll be able to find it." CreationDate="2018-08-24T00:58:26.033" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="12393" PostId="5042" Score="0" Text="I doubt anyone is still bothered about this question but it does actually look like there is an archived version of the [source from HowStuffWorks](https://web.archive.org/web/20130308023835/http://www.bellaterreno.com/art/irish/irish_potgold.aspx). I assume it was just something I missed the first time around, but the entire page is basically the explanation in the HowStuffWorks' page itself, so it's not exactly helpful. It does line up with Spencer's full answer about the Germanic mythology though." CreationDate="2020-02-26T19:09:25.913" UserId="3741" />
  <row Id="11958" PostId="5049" Score="0" Text="In Romanian, [Prince Charming](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Charming) is called [Pretty/Beautiful/Handsome Fetus/Boy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C4%83t-Frumos). As for [Prince Charming from a/the tear(drop)](http://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/F%C4%83t-Frumos_din_lacrim%C4%83), it is a tale having a known author (as opposed to a folk tale having no known author), written by none other than [Mihai Eminescu](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihai_Eminescu)." CreationDate="2019-09-27T18:54:03.850" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="16294" PostId="5056" Score="0" Text="I think you're right on the money here. Fables and legends, which make up mythology, are inconsistent because they're invented stories. None of it really happened, and original audiences, perhaps excepting some unusual duck, expected it to &quot;make sense&quot; upon scrutiny. These stories are beyond scrutiny!" CreationDate="2023-02-16T05:18:49.487" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="10789" PostId="5060" Score="1" Text="Hello. This is incredibly broad, I don't know how much help we can be without further info. Isn't there anything else you can tell us about the story? Even a vague hint about the culture could help narrow this down." CreationDate="2018-08-07T10:43:37.250" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="10791" PostId="5060" Score="0" Text="@yannis Unfortunately the reference was vague. I am still searching for the story and source." CreationDate="2018-08-08T16:37:44.333" UserId="5260" />
  <row Id="10797" PostId="5060" Score="1" Text="Thanks for the information @Gibet . Yeah, those don't sound like what I am looking for.   I am beginning to wonder if it was a made up reference. Hope not. I am on the road for a few weeks but plan to get into this more when I'm at home and can dig in deeper. Appreciate your notes." CreationDate="2018-08-14T14:48:08.130" UserId="5260" />
  <row Id="11992" PostId="5060" Score="0" Text="'Kakbhushundi' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakbhushundi#Life" CreationDate="2019-10-14T07:26:56.747" UserId="6339" />
  <row Id="10796" PostId="5062" Score="1" Text="Thanks! I am not looking for an identification of the whole pantheon, but the first identification of a Greek god with a Roman one. Can you point to a passage where Tacitus mentions identifications between Greek and Roman god(desse)s?" CreationDate="2018-08-14T13:50:39.990" UserId="5199" />
  <row Id="10800" PostId="5062" Score="1" Text="Check this Germania [link](https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/De_origine_et_situ_Germanorum_(Germania)#43) , in XLIII he says : &quot;Praesidet sacerdos muliebri ornatu, sed deos interpretatione Romana Castorem Pollucemque memorant.&quot; in english it's something like &quot;a priest adorned as a woman presides, but they commemorate gods who in Roman terms (interpretatione romana) are Castor and Pollux.&quot; , possible all of this started there..." CreationDate="2018-08-15T13:09:55.143" UserId="1315" />
  <row Id="11959" PostId="5064" Score="0" Text="He's probably referencing a certain [passage](http://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.88b.7-89a.2?lang=en) of the [Talmudic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud) tractate [Sabbath](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat_(Talmud)), where the Jewish Prophet and Law-Giver Moses ascends to Heaven to take the Torah down to earth, from the Angels, arguing that it's much better suited for humans, since its commandments are somewhat superfluous for heavenly beings." CreationDate="2019-09-27T19:22:49.300" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="10792" PostId="5065" Score="0" Text="Law and Justice are two unrelated concepts.  That is why the Legislature and Judiciary are unconnected in Western democracies.  Or are you suggesting that they were combined by Norse myth?" CreationDate="2018-08-10T13:27:56.583" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="10795" PostId="5065" Score="1" Text="The concepts Law and Justice are pretty darn closely related. Are you suggesting that the Judiciary has nothing to do with law? It's stated purpose is to interpret and apply the law. It's full of *law*yers who went to *law* school, and work for *law* firms, representing clients in courts of *law*." CreationDate="2018-08-13T17:41:29.987" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="10905" PostId="5069" Score="1" Text="Regret I have no knowledge of this, but it sounds an interesting idea, so I hope someone can answer it." CreationDate="2018-10-11T20:37:49.080" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="10798" PostId="5070" Score="1" Text="Thanks for clearing that up. As is so often the case with mythology, Wikipedia is only a cursory introduction to the detail. Do the Greek words in the first source mean welcomed foreigner(s)? I'm guessing from the prefix xeno-, but don't personally know much ancient Greek." CreationDate="2018-08-15T06:29:23.170" UserId="5255" />
  <row Id="10799" PostId="5070" Score="2" Text="@J.G. Yes, the word basically denotes &quot;foreigner&quot;, though more specifically in this [context of hospitality, &quot;guest-friend&quot;](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenia_(Greek))." CreationDate="2018-08-15T06:40:56.633" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="10810" PostId="5080" Score="2" Text="Welcome to Mythology.  As far as I know, we don't have information on what the male version of the offspring would have been like, but I might recommend looking at the similar prophecy involving [Thetis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thetis#Marriage_to_Peleus), mother of Achilles in regard to subversive aspects of the Iliad (ennobling humanity in contrast to the pettiness of the gods.)" CreationDate="2018-08-21T21:25:55.067" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14532" PostId="5080" Score="0" Text="There is really no other information about him rather than he would overthrow Zeus. He didn't even necessarily had to be a son of Zeus, only a son of Metis and anyone else. If he had been born, he would've overthrown Zeus." CreationDate="2021-06-05T16:48:54.903" UserId="7622" />
  <row Id="15934" PostId="5080" Score="0" Text="In short, it looks like Athena's brother would be like a cross between Balder and Thor." CreationDate="2022-04-14T16:44:57.113" UserId="9154" />
  <row Id="10806" PostId="5081" Score="1" Text="Welcome to SE:Mythology!  *(Although I don't disagree with your conclusion, the answer itself would be greatly strengthened with some excerpts from the referenced material.)*" CreationDate="2018-08-20T20:22:53.323" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10812" PostId="5082" Score="0" Text="I just changed the question @Gibet" CreationDate="2018-08-22T15:45:32.120" UserId="5294" />
  <row Id="10815" PostId="5082" Score="0" Text="I agree with Gibet.  Because these stories come out of oral tradition before they were documented, it may be impossible to know how old the stories themselves are.  The question might be more answerable if it asked &quot;what are the earliest documented accounts of Sasquatch?&quot;" CreationDate="2018-08-22T20:41:37.310" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10816" PostId="5082" Score="1" Text="I changed the question to be more relevant @DukeZhou" CreationDate="2018-08-22T20:43:36.130" UserId="5294" />
  <row Id="10818" PostId="5082" Score="0" Text="Related: [What are the earliest known origins of Sasquatches in Native American culture in the Americas?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/1805/what-are-the-earliest-known-origins-of-sasquatches-in-native-american-culture-in)" CreationDate="2018-08-25T23:01:36.033" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="10814" PostId="5084" Score="1" Text="Welcome to SE:Mythology!  *(Don't forget to formally accept a response if in answers your question:)*" CreationDate="2018-08-22T20:38:50.167" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10813" PostId="5085" Score="1" Text="Welcome to Mythology. Thanks for contributing!" CreationDate="2018-08-22T20:37:07.713" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10820" PostId="5091" Score="0" Text="Welcome to Mythology!  In popular culture, the bat form certainly gained a lot of traction.  (The [Twilight Watch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Watch) treats this somewhat humorously, where the bats are human-sized.)   I'm pretty sure I've come across references to other animal forms for vampires, but I suspect they are modern." CreationDate="2018-08-30T21:08:02.243" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10836" PostId="5091" Score="0" Text="If you are asking specifically about Dracula, which is a novel not a myth, you may get a better answer on Literature.SE." CreationDate="2018-09-05T13:33:42.433" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="10838" PostId="5092" Score="0" Text="Yes, I suppose so, as I am doing an essay for Dracula,(The book) and the reasons or theories behind the tropes used." CreationDate="2018-09-06T18:43:24.090" UserId="5325" />
  <row Id="10825" PostId="5093" Score="2" Text="Have you visited archive.org?  Try typing in 'mythology' and see if any of those fit the bill. Then, 'mythology, African' ... keep doing that with 'folk lore or folktales', etc.  'Stories, African' has some interesting titles popping up. Also, a physical library database may be helpful." CreationDate="2018-09-01T04:07:49.750" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="10826" PostId="5094" Score="0" Text="Hi, and welcome to Mythology &amp; Folklore. Your question is somewhat unfocused. Can you clarify what you're asking? Are you trying to ask why Odysseus killed the men who were trying to court and marry his wife so they could have his lands and house and belongings? Are you asking how Odysseus could kill all the suitors by himself? What does &quot;is the kingdom so short on soldiers&quot; have to do with &quot;greedy men trying to steal Odysseus's wife and lands&quot;? If we don't know what you're asking, we won't be able to help you." CreationDate="2018-09-01T12:46:01.930" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10828" PostId="5094" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum  I actually couldn't believe that the city didn't have like a few guards or militamen or maybe one of their servants could help idk kill them in their sleep poison their wine... whatever  &#xA;Spencer that does clear things up a bit" CreationDate="2018-09-02T00:30:51.027" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11037" PostId="5094" Score="2" Text="Worst peanut? Are you feeling quite ok?" CreationDate="2018-11-13T01:15:55.983" UserId="599" />
  <row Id="10827" PostId="5095" Score="0" Text="thanks I guess I couldn't believe that a city wouldn't have like a few guards or  militia/ conscripts around even if the main army was at war and of course Odysseus is just legendary here                 &#xA;One question are the new generation of soldiers loyal only to Odysseus  the suitors, or to the suitors but only while they are alive? as there is no speak of revenge on Odysseus by aforementioned loyal soldiers &#xA;Would the soldier have changed their loyalty to Odysseus if they new who he was?" CreationDate="2018-09-02T00:20:54.287" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="10829" PostId="5095" Score="0" Text="@HaoSun I think you've misinterpreted what I wrote. Everyone but Penelope believed Odysseus was dead. He had no help except Telemachus." CreationDate="2018-09-02T02:43:53.927" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10830" PostId="5095" Score="0" Text="but if their loyalty was to Odysseus  (but not to his heirs for some reason? )   then shouldn't  revealing himself to be Odysseus be enough? why must he fight the suitors rather than just reveal himself?" CreationDate="2018-09-02T22:57:05.737" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="10831" PostId="5095" Score="0" Text="@HaoSun What makes you think they had loyalty for Odysseus? Not that he cared.  After all they had done in his house, nothing but their deaths was enough. I added another quotation for that." CreationDate="2018-09-02T23:27:20.103" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10832" PostId="5095" Score="0" Text="the way you wrote it made it seem that it was only Odysseus's death that gave the suitors brashness to act in such a manner     &#xA;Is Odysseus that legendary? or the suitors just kinda weak?  In addition to Odysseus still being alive they didn't  count on some of Odysseus's men making it  back or the Spartan king sending some men to tell of death and killing them..." CreationDate="2018-09-03T02:10:19.160" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="10947" PostId="5105" Score="0" Text="Someone giant as in tall or a giant?" CreationDate="2018-10-23T23:03:25.403" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10846" PostId="5106" Score="1" Text="Hi. I'm glad you want to participate,  but you're going to have to be a little more diligent in your future posts. The [help center](http://mythology.stackexchange.com/help) has a lot of good advice on how to ask questions and post answers.  Pretty much everyone here has learned the hard way to think about what we're going to write, and do research, before we start typing. We do this even if we're sure we have the correct answer, not only because we have to convince readers, but also because some detail we missed gives us an unpleasant surprise," CreationDate="2018-09-12T02:19:20.067" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10849" PostId="5112" Score="0" Text="What do you base your awareness of &quot;a wide variety of zombies&quot; on? Are you sure they are all derived from mythology and folklore?" CreationDate="2018-09-17T13:57:59.790" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10850" PostId="5112" Score="1" Text="There’s more than 1 type of zombie in mythology &amp; motion pictures besides the classic drugged human. At least that’s my understanding. As for my statement I’m going on what my sister has stated in the past." CreationDate="2018-09-17T13:59:26.103" UserId="5294" />
  <row Id="10852" PostId="5112" Score="0" Text="@AbrahamRay Well, as for the motion picture stuff, it's out of scope for Mythology SE. Given that, can you edit into the question why you'd consider anything that's not from Hatian tradition a &quot;[zombie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie)&quot;?" CreationDate="2018-09-17T20:08:01.100" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10853" PostId="5112" Score="0" Text="I just did @Spencer" CreationDate="2018-09-17T20:27:13.730" UserId="5294" />
  <row Id="10855" PostId="5112" Score="0" Text="That’s why I’m going the folklore route @Gibet" CreationDate="2018-09-17T23:16:08.153" UserId="5294" />
  <row Id="10856" PostId="5112" Score="0" Text="Also the question specifically asks how to STOP them @Gibet!" CreationDate="2018-09-18T06:19:25.850" UserId="5294" />
  <row Id="10882" PostId="5112" Score="1" Text="I like this question about a modern mythological tradition.  Answers should be supported by links to source material though, to keep it academic." CreationDate="2018-10-03T20:23:49.603" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11283" PostId="5127" Score="2" Text="The ancient Greeks used to think that redheads would turn into vampires" CreationDate="2019-02-11T21:14:59.177" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="10874" PostId="5128" Score="1" Text="Your answer is way better than mine. It can stay deleted." CreationDate="2018-09-29T22:36:29.883" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="10863" PostId="5132" Score="0" Text="I think there are six independent runic alphabets, which one are you after? Have you looked at the [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runes#Dalecarlian_runes_(16th_to_19th_centuries)) yet?" CreationDate="2018-09-27T12:01:06.163" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="10865" PostId="5132" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the comment. I've clarified the type of runes in the question" CreationDate="2018-09-27T14:39:47.027" UserId="5397" />
  <row Id="10868" PostId="5132" Score="0" Text="Also, what language are you interested in?" CreationDate="2018-09-28T23:40:31.000" UserId="4152" />
  <row Id="10870" PostId="5132" Score="0" Text="Preferably, i would like a recreation of how the vikings wrote it" CreationDate="2018-09-29T15:49:31.660" UserId="5397" />
  <row Id="10878" PostId="5132" Score="0" Text="I don't know that you'll get an answer here, the question doesn't appear to be about Mythology or Folklore, you might want to look at translation or linguistic forums? There are some good educational videos online. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A271ohcO7Yc" CreationDate="2018-10-01T16:27:21.723" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="10867" PostId="5133" Score="0" Text="This is the the area i was referring to. I am wondering about the peoples  who inhabited the area prior to the aryans. https://www.ancient.eu/Indus_Valley_Civilization/" CreationDate="2018-09-28T18:16:38.157" UserId="3293" />
  <row Id="10869" PostId="5133" Score="0" Text="According to link i posted, it seems some of the hindu gods originated with this culture. Can we assume then that their creation story would be similar to the hindu creation story?" CreationDate="2018-09-29T05:50:37.703" UserId="3293" />
  <row Id="10880" PostId="5133" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I homeschool and this is part of  a project on these exact cultures and their beliefs. I knew there writing hasnt been deciphered  yet and figured it would be hard to get a definitive answer. However i would at least like to be able to present theories as to what their beliefs were." CreationDate="2018-10-01T20:50:29.267" UserId="3293" />
  <row Id="10883" PostId="5133" Score="0" Text="@Gibet i edited the question to ask about their religious beliefs instead of just a creation myth." CreationDate="2018-10-04T05:06:02.620" UserId="3293" />
  <row Id="10876" PostId="5134" Score="1" Text="Do you base this on some sources, or is this all your own idea? If it's from sources, could you tell us what they are?" CreationDate="2018-09-30T20:50:47.500" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="10891" PostId="5142" Score="1" Text="[Academia.edu](https://www.academia.edu/Directory/Papers) is another source you might want to try. It's a good addition to JSTOR, and easier to access. I would add that for African mythologies, your best chance might be to check out anthropology books and articles. (It works for Native American mythologies, so it might well work for African ones as well.)" CreationDate="2018-10-10T00:41:34.393" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="11173" PostId="5144" Score="0" Text="Each of the preceding Suns lasted 2028 years, at least according to the French wikipedia (which has some more details)." CreationDate="2019-01-04T21:42:31.687" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="14635" PostId="5144" Score="0" Text="@sand1 can you update with a link to that?" CreationDate="2021-09-29T21:46:16.250" UserId="810" />
  <row Id="14638" PostId="5144" Score="1" Text="@New Alexandria Do you mean a reference or the link to https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9gende_des_soleils . Google translates: &quot;&#xA;&#xA;The total number of years for the first four suns is the same: (2028 years), but the distribution is different: (676-676-364-312) for the Historia de los Mexicanos and (676-364-312- 676) for the Leyenda de los soles. It is each time multiples of 52, that is to say the number of years corresponding to an Aztec &quot;century&quot;.&quot;" CreationDate="2021-10-02T09:09:29.580" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="10901" PostId="5146" Score="0" Text="Can you clarify what you mean by &quot;open to the Trojans&quot;?" CreationDate="2018-10-11T06:46:41.253" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="10902" PostId="5146" Score="0" Text="&quot;open&quot; meaning 'something they could do if they chose'" CreationDate="2018-10-11T20:11:26.480" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="10945" PostId="5147" Score="0" Text="What exactly do you mean by evil? Prophets that intentionally twist people and lead them the wrong way for personal gain? Seers that use their powers to steal without ever being seen? Sibyls that would charge a price for prophecies and take away from amount when told no and still charge the same price? Or just those that can see the future and are enemies (or cursed/disliked) by the gods?" CreationDate="2018-10-23T22:49:54.203" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10949" PostId="5147" Score="0" Text="@AndrewJohnson All of the above. Are there that many?" CreationDate="2018-10-24T02:36:13.527" UserId="5431" />
  <row Id="10966" PostId="5147" Score="0" Text="The first two I mentioned, no, not that I remember. (I just got out of Basic Combat Training, so my Greek mythology needs a major brush up.) But the other two I have come across. But, I wouldn't really call them evil. Apollo would give the gift of prophecy to women he liked, and if they didn't return his love, he would curse them. Only one comes to mind at this time, that being Cassandra of Troy." CreationDate="2018-10-27T03:15:15.117" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10967" PostId="5147" Score="0" Text="One women who already had the gift of prophecy caught the eye of Apollo. He came down and said, &quot;I love you. I will grant you a wish and you will be mine.&quot; Or something like that. This woman was known as the Virgin of Cumaean, a priestess. She picked up sand and asked for as many years as grains she held. The wish was granted, but she did not lay with him. Apollo could not take back his gift, nor did he curse her because she was already cursed. She lived the years, but did not retain her beauty." CreationDate="2018-10-27T03:28:23.590" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10968" PostId="5147" Score="0" Text="The Virgin of Cumaean was the sibyl that offered a king books/scrolls of prophecy at a high price. He refused, she burned three. She offered again at the same price. He refused, she burned three. With three remaining, she offered once more at the same price. He accepted. (Though, now I have to ask a question on this because the Cumaean Sybil wrote prophecies on oak leaves.)" CreationDate="2018-10-27T03:32:59.313" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="10973" PostId="5147" Score="0" Text="@AndrewJohnson Thanks Andrew. I know those stories but that is 'evil' on the gods' part, rather then the Sybil/Seer. There's plenty of evil done by the Greco-Roman gods, that's not what I'm asking for in this particular question, thanks" CreationDate="2018-10-28T02:54:45.580" UserId="5431" />
  <row Id="10892" PostId="5148" Score="0" Text="i thank you so much for your answer. Am looking forward to any edits you may make as i havent been able to find anything through an internet search. I especially appreciate u giving me Jonathan Mark Kenoyer name. Never found him while searching, but his reasearch is extraordinary. To connect Mesopotamia and Indus valley civilization is an eye opener. Once again. Thank you" CreationDate="2018-10-10T05:05:51.783" UserId="3293" />
  <row Id="10893" PostId="5148" Score="0" Text="I have only scraped the survace of his research ,but I will be definitely be reading more of it in the next few days. thanx again" CreationDate="2018-10-10T05:09:18.900" UserId="3293" />
  <row Id="10894" PostId="5148" Score="0" Text="i am trying to @ u, but for some reason its not letting me" CreationDate="2018-10-10T05:15:20.407" UserId="3293" />
  <row Id="10896" PostId="5148" Score="0" Text="i  homeschool 2 teenagers And that means if my kids have questions we can spend time to reserch it. They read alot about Mesopotamia and Egypt, their religion and their culture. But all the books said about the indus valley civilization was it as old as the orher 2 cultures were. My children wanted to know more about this culture. Since i was a member here, i figured it was the best place to get answers." CreationDate="2018-10-10T07:54:16.670" UserId="3293" />
  <row Id="10897" PostId="5148" Score="0" Text="Amd  no not indian. We r american" CreationDate="2018-10-10T07:54:53.483" UserId="3293" />
  <row Id="10903" PostId="5148" Score="0" Text="Seems a thoughtful answer from Gibet given the lack of written sources we can decipher from the early Indus Valley Civilization itself, nor recorded about them by other contemporary civilizations (e.g. if they had  contact with Mesopotamia, no Mesopotamian record of it survives as far as I know), nor (again as far as I know) does any identifiable record of traditions about them survive from later Hindu Sanskrit literature." CreationDate="2018-10-11T20:24:19.180" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="10904" PostId="5148" Score="0" Text="Further to my previous comment, absence of identifiable temples or cult statues may indicate an unusual unimportance of religion, or a religion whose nature left few remains. E.g. Mungo Park's account of travelling through West Africa circa 1800 says that (apart from Muslim converts) the Africans he met believed in a supreme creator god but saw little point in prayers, sacrifices or temples as they thought him too remote and powerful to be swayed by the words and works of mere mortals. Consequently their faith in him left little or no physical remains." CreationDate="2018-10-11T20:33:20.633" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="10912" PostId="5148" Score="0" Text="@Timothy  https://www.academia.edu/3511650/A_new_approach_to_tracking_connections_between_the_Indus_Valley_and_Mesopotamia_initial_results_of_strontium_isotope_analyses_from_Harappa_and_Ur   this is a great link to a scientic study co-written by Jonathan Mark Kenoyer. He has done excellent research  on this civilization." CreationDate="2018-10-13T05:01:20.630" UserId="3293" />
  <row Id="10913" PostId="5148" Score="0" Text="I hope one day they will find a &quot;rosetta stone&quot; to unlock the indus language" CreationDate="2018-10-13T05:02:43.320" UserId="3293" />
  <row Id="10900" PostId="5149" Score="0" Text="Thanks, Gibet. Yes, I remember iconography/artifacts of Astarte with a pig or pigs. For the benefit of others, my question regarding the A-team (I like your terminology!) and other Canaanite goddesses is more about the myths themselves." CreationDate="2018-10-11T06:06:15.950" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="12271" PostId="5160" Score="0" Text="Norse people didn't have any concept of outer space/other dimensions like we do today, Ásgarðr, Jǫtunheimr etc are meant to be only lands that are really far away, hence you see people reaching those places by horse, going down through caves and so on." CreationDate="2020-01-22T13:30:00.127" UserId="5710" />
  <row Id="10927" PostId="5163" Score="0" Text="Thanks. I'm aware of the health/sanitation issues, but my question was where were pigs contained in the myths about the Canaanite goddesses, regardless of whether pigs are being portrayed positively or negatively." CreationDate="2018-10-17T05:53:53.677" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="10932" PostId="5175" Score="1" Text="The position that the Bible is &quot;comprehensive&quot; is very much a protestant position, which isn't necessarily shared by other denominations (see the Catholic and Orthodox insistence on the importance of [Church tradition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_tradition)). In my experience the Classical world was much closer to the Catholic and Orthodox position than to the Protestant [*sola scriptura*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura) position" CreationDate="2018-10-21T08:18:18.350" UserDisplayName="Denis Nardin" />
  <row Id="10933" PostId="5177" Score="0" Text="Actually both the *Iliad* and the *Odyssey* contain significant digressions describing other myths. Still they are not &quot;comprehensive&quot;. The *Bibliotheca* is a very nice suggestion" CreationDate="2018-10-21T11:06:15.730" UserDisplayName="Denis Nardin" />
  <row Id="10934" PostId="5177" Score="0" Text="Wondering where a copy of the &quot;original&quot;-ish Greek or Latin of the Bibliotheca can be found. Not sure if [this](https://archive.org/details/bibliothecaexrec00photuoft/page/348) is it, or perhaps [this](https://archive.org/details/diodoribibliothe01diod_0/page/500)." CreationDate="2018-10-21T19:25:17.923" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="10935" PostId="5177" Score="1" Text="@LancePollard http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0021%3Atext%3DLibrary%3Abook%3D1%3Achapter%3D1%3Asection%3D1 or search here https://archive.org/search.php?query=bibliotheca%20apollodorus" CreationDate="2018-10-21T20:18:24.663" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="10937" PostId="5180" Score="0" Text="That last link is great! Thanks. Unfortunately it doesn't have a copyright license so it probably defaults to private use only." CreationDate="2018-10-22T08:04:05.903" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="10940" PostId="5180" Score="0" Text="Wonder if you know of anything else that is open source / open data / without copyright restrictions. And as a bonus, is in text format." CreationDate="2018-10-22T16:19:36.807" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="10941" PostId="5180" Score="0" Text="Hmm... 5 minutes on Google might yield lots of results, but it's unlikely to allow someone to separate the wheat from the chaff as well as you did." CreationDate="2018-10-22T22:35:49.193" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10953" PostId="5180" Score="0" Text="@Gibet good to know, thanks. Also, would be interested to know if you know of any that are (a) open source / copyright permissive, and (b) in text format (rather than PDF)." CreationDate="2018-10-24T07:54:34.113" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="10938" PostId="5181" Score="0" Text="Awesome, that is a great Gothic find. Wondering about Celtic or any fairy tales, would be interested if any of that stuff is in Old English or Celtic." CreationDate="2018-10-22T11:15:47.703" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="10957" PostId="5181" Score="0" Text="Came across [this](http://skaldic.abdn.ac.uk/db.php?if=db&amp;table=text&amp;view=db) as well. Also wondering if [Þjóðólfr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Ej%C3%B3%C3%B0%C3%B3lfr_of_Hvinir) is to be found on that wiki. Perhaps [this](http://heimskringla.no/wiki/Haustl%C3%B6ng)." CreationDate="2018-10-25T04:00:55.723" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="10958" PostId="5181" Score="0" Text="[Here](http://sulis.ucc.ie/cdi/textarchive-results2.php?keywords=A) is some Celtic stuff." CreationDate="2018-10-25T04:49:23.803" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="10942" PostId="5182" Score="1" Text="This sounds fake to me. I've always heard Hagrid as having come from &quot;hag-ridden&quot;." CreationDate="2018-10-23T00:08:21.027" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="10950" PostId="5185" Score="0" Text="Here are some [Tamil](http://www.projectmadurai.org/pmworks.html) ones. Here are some [Japanese](https://www.aozora.gr.jp). Both free and open source. All that's remaining is [Burmese](https://www.omniglot.com/writing/burmese.htm), [Thai](https://www.omniglot.com/writing/thai.htm), Indonesian, Hawaiian, Maori, and Tagalog. For Hawaii I found [this](http://ulukau.org/) but it is not open source (and I can't find the actual documents but it doesn't matter). Here is a [Thai epic](https://archive.org/details/anupongchaiwong_gmail_7/page/n21), but not in text format." CreationDate="2018-10-24T04:41:11.290" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="10951" PostId="5185" Score="0" Text="[Here](https://th.wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%81) is some Thai stuff (wikisource), but I am having a hard time navigating, trying to find something like an Epic like [Thao Hung or Thao Chueang (ท้าวฮุ่งท้าวเจือง)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_literature)." CreationDate="2018-10-24T04:51:14.067" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="10955" PostId="5185" Score="1" Text="You left out [Rongorongo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rongorongo)" CreationDate="2018-10-24T15:37:25.443" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10961" PostId="5185" Score="0" Text="Good point, no I don't read Japanese lol." CreationDate="2018-10-26T07:16:56.733" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="10956" PostId="5189" Score="0" Text="interesting note, but that still doesn't address how he managed to not get bitten or scratched more severely" CreationDate="2018-10-24T20:12:44.417" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="10959" PostId="5189" Score="0" Text="Answer expanded by a few additional bits of information, primarily the account from Theocritus' *Idylls* &amp; another note from Ptolemy Hephaestion." CreationDate="2018-10-25T07:59:23.970" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10970" PostId="5191" Score="0" Text="Added a section to answer the last portion of the Question, about Heracles, his labours, &amp; Hera." CreationDate="2018-10-27T04:49:36.623" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10965" PostId="5192" Score="1" Text="What you're looking at is modern (pre-standardisation guessing by the diacritics) Irish, that text specifically (Réalta de'n spéir) translates to something like 'Star of the sky', published in Dublin (I mBaile Áṫa Cliaṫ), 1915, by the Gaelic League (Ċonnraḋ na Gaeḋilge). Irish has a pretty much unbroken tradition of myth/folklore in the Irish language going back to the 600's, this also means it's a nightmare to get your head around, maybe checkout UCC's CELT (Corpus of ELectronic Texts) and Vanhammel. A lot of stuff isn't translated yet." CreationDate="2018-10-26T15:34:52.477" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="10969" PostId="5193" Score="2" Text="Just so you know, this is a pet peeve in Greek Mythology. It's not a box. It's a jar." CreationDate="2018-10-27T03:48:00.047" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="11001" PostId="5193" Score="1" Text="In some forms of the myth, there is no &quot;box&quot;, just Pandora.  The implication is that she herself is the &quot;box&quot;.  [It's actually a jar used for storing oil, and there can surely be a sexual connotation.  Erasmus may have been playing with this when he used introduced *pyxis* (&quot;box&quot;) but we can only speculate;]  Her name can mean &quot;all gifts&quot;, which includes both the good and the bad.  [Hesiod seems like he was quite depressed, so it mostly bad, and Hesiod had a fairly negative view of women.]  See: [Symbolism behind Pandora's Box](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/2277/2892)" CreationDate="2018-11-02T18:42:00.730" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10977" PostId="5197" Score="1" Text="Welcome to Mythology&amp;Folklore, Peter :) I took the liberty (no pun intended ;-P ) of tweaking your Question a bit, doing my best not to alter your intent on any points. I thought it might go over better if it was easier for those unfamiliar with your query's subject matter to see at a glance (i.e. in picture format) what you're referring to." CreationDate="2018-10-29T18:42:49.120" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10978" PostId="5197" Score="0" Text="You are not obligated to keep the Columbia image that I input (it's merely the coolest high-resolution 1 I could find), &amp; you are free to Roll Back the changes that I've made to your Question if you find they don't suit you." CreationDate="2018-10-29T18:43:24.337" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10979" PostId="5197" Score="2" Text="@Gibet , from what I can see in my brief search on the characters from the Question, (Lady) Liberty is literally an Ancient Roman goddess whose veneration has somehow trickled down to the present day, albeit in a different form, finding its most forceful modern expression during the French Revolution. Columbia is a fairly blatant representation of the worship of the state as a powerful colonial &amp; imperial institution, many calling her simply &quot;the Goddess of America&quot; in exactly the same way that, e.g., the Roman state was personified as the goddess Roma." CreationDate="2018-10-29T18:54:12.063" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10980" PostId="5197" Score="3" Text="If Peter's Question isn't about mythology it is at least about modern American folklore, &amp; the most pervasive medium in any folklore anywhere has generally tended to be the visual arts. Obviously this may be just my own limited analysis thereof. I'm curious about what the rest of the community thinks." CreationDate="2018-10-29T18:56:17.830" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="10988" PostId="5199" Score="0" Text="I'm aware of the parts you mentioned it still doesn't answer the question what was the point of making pandora curios and giving her the box when Zeus could have just opened the box or just asked the gods to punish humanity" CreationDate="2018-11-01T19:31:35.247" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="10989" PostId="5199" Score="0" Text="I might use &quot;Fore-thought&quot; as opposed to &quot;before thought&quot; to characterize Prometheus.  (The latter implies pre-thinking, where Prometheus name' implies premeditation, planning, strategy, foresight, etc.)" CreationDate="2018-11-01T21:26:19.493" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10992" PostId="5199" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou sure, makes sense." CreationDate="2018-11-02T09:57:01.000" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="10993" PostId="5199" Score="1" Text="@HaoSun The point of making her curious and giving her the box was to punish her husband (Epimetheus) and his family (Prometheus). Hurting humanity was the method by which he hurt Prometheus. It's not direct; it's not meant to be. Prometheus has to live with the fact that his &quot;dumb brother's&quot; wife caused permanent hurt to humanity, whom he created and loved. It's also a myth, which tells a story and teaches something of a lesson. It's not history." CreationDate="2018-11-02T10:00:39.157" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11002" PostId="5199" Score="1" Text="You may be interested in [Pandora's Box: The Changing Aspects of a Mythical Symbol](https://www.amazon.com/Pandoras-Box-Princeton-Bollingen-Mythology/dp/0691018243/ref=sr_1_18?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1541186680&amp;sr=1-18&amp;keywords=pandora%27s+box+non-fiction)" CreationDate="2018-11-02T19:27:24.703" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10975" PostId="5202" Score="0" Text="It's possible that the original writing was referring to &quot;Geb&quot;, whom [Wikipedia says](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geb) says was read as &quot;Seb&quot; from the Greek period onward. Then again, it could indeed be a typo for &quot;Set&quot;." CreationDate="2018-10-29T14:48:16.393" UserId="1308" />
  <row Id="10981" PostId="5202" Score="0" Text="There is a lot of excellent stuff in this answer, and I have upvoted it. It would however be even better if it pointed to some reference for those who wanted to learn more." CreationDate="2018-10-29T20:14:17.677" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="11003" PostId="5204" Score="3" Text="These type of stories are fairly common in the folklore of Chinese martial arts.  Most of it comes from oral tradition, but miraculous martial powers are also a staple of [Wuxia literature](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuxia).  *If interested in Wuxia, I highly recommend starting out with Louis Cha's [The Deer and the Cauldron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deer_and_the_Cauldron)* :)" CreationDate="2018-11-02T19:34:06.117" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11004" PostId="5207" Score="1" Text="There's another dimension to Tarantino's casting of Gordon Liu, in that, in Liu's early career, he fought Pai Mei in [Clan of the White Lotus](https://youtu.be/3u9AGkole0U?t=1372)" CreationDate="2018-11-02T19:41:01.363" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="10986" PostId="5214" Score="0" Text="Please support your assertions with references. It's not at all clear whether those photos come from a reliable source; please edit the question to tell us where they came from." CreationDate="2018-11-01T09:24:26.603" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="10997" PostId="5214" Score="0" Text="@Gibet You know the ingredients of a complete answer on SE. This is a decidedly fishy answer,  but don't confuse a lack of invective with credulity. As it stands the answer is [not even wrong](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong)." CreationDate="2018-11-02T11:16:28.730" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11006" PostId="5215" Score="0" Text="I know that, but what is her creation story?" CreationDate="2018-11-02T20:26:44.557" UserId="5441" />
  <row Id="11007" PostId="5215" Score="0" Text="As I said: it's a household deity so there seems to be no wide-spread, canonized origin story." CreationDate="2018-11-02T20:46:03.560" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="10996" PostId="5221" Score="0" Text="oh, I probably should have mentioned that's just my own rendering from freezing the video and trying to figure out the glyphs and entering them in JSesh. It's a hobby :)" CreationDate="2018-11-02T11:07:20.263" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="10998" PostId="5221" Score="0" Text="on a more entertaining note, you can have loads of fun taking the [tour mode of Assassin's Creed Origins](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIBEqlOJ30s&amp;ab_channel=PlectrumZGaming) and just climb the buildings, the obelisks, etc. and see what's written on them." CreationDate="2018-11-02T11:17:42.483" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11000" PostId="5222" Score="0" Text="My understanding is there's a theory he might be a form of the fire giant [Logi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logi), and I don't think it's a stretch to connect his name to the PIE root [*lewk-](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/luk-) which means &quot;bright&quot;." CreationDate="2018-11-02T18:36:28.953" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11009" PostId="5222" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou So, basically like... *&quot;Lewk, I am your father!&quot;* SCNR :)" CreationDate="2018-11-03T07:18:10.110" UserId="2708" />
  <row Id="11010" PostId="5222" Score="0" Text="@Mario lol, yup!" CreationDate="2018-11-03T19:51:04.090" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11013" PostId="5228" Score="0" Text="I've seen a few on Wikipedia (though they were not in detail), but I'm looking for more." CreationDate="2018-11-05T00:23:21.573" UserDisplayName="user5459" />
  <row Id="11139" PostId="5228" Score="0" Text="The ancient Greek stuff is almost all available online.  (I'll look to put together an answer at some point if no one beats me to it:)" CreationDate="2018-12-13T02:05:01.090" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11016" PostId="5230" Score="0" Text="Hello. May we assume that you asking about articles, etc, not mentioned in the wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_(demon)" CreationDate="2018-11-06T17:44:17.003" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="11019" PostId="5230" Score="0" Text="But nothing described here about his past/born or his parents." CreationDate="2018-11-08T05:17:21.133" UserId="3647" />
  <row Id="11026" PostId="5230" Score="0" Text="He's a gandharva, there are genealogies for them." CreationDate="2018-11-10T22:21:59.810" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="11017" PostId="5233" Score="1" Text="https://youtu.be/KawjY0PK7A8" CreationDate="2018-11-06T23:51:55.190" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11018" PostId="5234" Score="0" Text="Thank you.  From the bottom of my heart, thank you.  This was an immensely helpful response.  I am looking into all of the things you mentioned now.  I infinitely appreciate this.  :)" CreationDate="2018-11-07T16:22:17.937" UserId="5448" />
  <row Id="11025" PostId="5234" Score="0" Text="@bsideswiped Glad I could help :)" CreationDate="2018-11-10T09:10:33.670" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11481" PostId="5239" Score="2" Text="Castlevania also has this concept." CreationDate="2019-04-15T07:26:47.280" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13572" PostId="5239" Score="1" Text="I think the closest you will come to this is the way the fairies in the British Isles would vanish, and someone who vanished with them might come back to find that a century had passed in what seemed like a single night.  Not no time, though." CreationDate="2020-05-21T22:23:52.040" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="11028" PostId="5243" Score="0" Text="I'm sorry for the inconvenience but I am concerned with disappearances and reappearances that happen magically and in which the object/build/place in question completely vanishes from sight and then reappears, but is not hidden (either behind mist or however else) or destroyed and remade. If Homer's Odyssey has such instances, is it alright if you link me to them? Thank you." CreationDate="2018-11-11T18:31:41.580" UserDisplayName="user5459" />
  <row Id="11034" PostId="5243" Score="0" Text="@Dominictheinquisitive in that case, no - Homer's Odyssey would fit into the category you're not looking for then." CreationDate="2018-11-12T17:30:39.850" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11049" PostId="5244" Score="0" Text="Fascinating -- so if I understand you correctly, you're saying that Taweret actually became confounded with Iset, not her sister.  It sounds like I'll need to read the Book of Day and Night..." CreationDate="2018-11-16T15:16:03.737" UserId="3590" />
  <row Id="11033" PostId="5245" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I said it was a social taboo, I did not mention law. And that does not change the fact that there are no promiscuous myths in the Egyptian pantheon prior to the Greek occupation examples I have given, like the OP is asking." CreationDate="2018-11-12T17:28:04.193" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11032" PostId="5247" Score="0" Text="I am indeed talking about mental images and where they are depicted as &quot;being.&quot; Presumably before modern science it was not known that the brain was the seat of cognition." CreationDate="2018-11-12T15:04:42.340" UserId="4573" />
  <row Id="11060" PostId="5251" Score="0" Text="I am not so sure about the drawing of lots part. The versions i recall, he chose the heavens to rule, then granted posideon the sea, and hades what was left. Then again the thing about greek mythology and mythology in general is that there are contradictions in the lore between different locations.  I could pose reasons to why that is, specifically in polytheistic faiths but thats not important." CreationDate="2018-11-19T16:23:48.080" UserId="5549" />
  <row Id="11377" PostId="5251" Score="3" Text="@anon the casting of the lots comes from [Apollodorus, Library, 1.2.1](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0022%3Atext%3DLibrary%3Abook%3D1%3Achapter%3D2%3Asection%3D1) *&quot;but they [the three brothers] themselves cast lots for the sovereignty, and to Zeus was allotted the dominion of the sky, to Poseidon the dominion of the sea, and to Pluto the dominion in Hades.&quot;*" CreationDate="2019-02-27T21:40:47.587" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11039" PostId="5253" Score="1" Text="@Gibet interesting. any sources for that? Could you perhaps write your own answer?" CreationDate="2018-11-13T19:21:54.873" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="11102" PostId="5255" Score="1" Text="You may find this an interesting read: [The Dendera zodiacs as narratives of the myth of Osiris, Isis, and the child Horus](http://www.enim-egyptologie.fr/index.php?page=enim-8&amp;n=9)" CreationDate="2018-12-02T11:28:06.783" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11376" PostId="5261" Score="0" Text="It may also have a male/female component.  Ouranos vs. Gaia (although, we all know who came out ahead in that conflict;)" CreationDate="2019-02-27T20:21:15.793" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11043" PostId="5262" Score="0" Text="Some books on mythology has it as a golden color, while some books does not give the color." CreationDate="2018-11-15T14:53:20.527" UserId="5347" />
  <row Id="11044" PostId="5263" Score="0" Text="Plato is just giving different colors of blood, not ichor. Ichor is translated here as serum. You put the word ichor in bold in the Greek text, but none of the bold text in the English is referring to it" CreationDate="2018-11-15T20:56:53.957" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="11062" PostId="5263" Score="0" Text="Can you attempt to simplify please?" CreationDate="2018-11-19T23:26:45.480" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="11050" PostId="5264" Score="0" Text="Hi. I'm not sure you can make the claim that the wolves [Geri and Freki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geri_and_Freki) are informants for Odin in that way. Mostly they just hunt with Odin and feed on corpses after battles. Do you have a reference that shows them spying for Odin?" CreationDate="2018-11-16T17:13:14.727" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11053" PostId="5264" Score="0" Text="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin&#xA;&#xA;&quot;He is often accompanied by his animal companions and familiars—the wolves Geri and Freki and the ravens Huginn and Muninn, who bring him information from all over Midgard—and rides the flying, eight-legged steed Sleipnir across the sky and into the underworld. &quot;" CreationDate="2018-11-16T22:10:35.087" UserId="5554" />
  <row Id="11054" PostId="5264" Score="1" Text="Not necessarily associating the bringing of information with anyone but Huginn and Munin. The wolves' appearance in the Eddas is limited." CreationDate="2018-11-16T22:28:57.323" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11052" PostId="5265" Score="0" Text="@Gibet The meaning of the word ‘saint’ was lost early on. ‘Saint’ is a contraction of the strange Hebrew word ‘tsintsenet’ צנצנת used only in Exodus 16:33. The Tsintsenet was said to be a vase or jar stored in the Ark of the Covenant that held the Manna, the ‘portion’ of blessing given to the Israelites. It was how the ancients explained a torus, as a jar containing a mystical substance. That is why Christian saints have a torus above their head.        &#xA;&#xA;Also I should point out that German ‘heiliger’ means holy, once again referring to the hole in the torus" CreationDate="2018-11-16T18:32:48.207" UserId="4804" />
  <row Id="11055" PostId="5269" Score="0" Text="Ahh, it's Yupik! That explains a lot. I don't have a dictionary on hand, but in modern Central Yupik, the sounds that used to be written &quot;kh&quot; are now written &quot;gg&quot; and &quot;rr&quot;." CreationDate="2018-11-17T16:22:29.257" UserId="4022" />
  <row Id="11056" PostId="5269" Score="0" Text="Don't know if it is helpful, but also came across:  https://www.uaf.edu/anlc/resources/yupik-inuit/  Comparative Yupik and Inuit&#xA;by Lawrence Kaplan" CreationDate="2018-11-17T16:38:01.950" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="11057" PostId="5270" Score="0" Text="I have a squirrled-away link to a scan of the LaFleshe dictionary online (I don't give it out for fear it will get taken down). I thought &quot;She'-ki&quot; was just their word for &quot;Rattlesnake&quot; though. I'll definitely look into those searches, but for the benefit of everyone else, can you give some kind of summary of what I should expect to find searching on those things?" CreationDate="2018-11-18T00:46:55.803" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="11064" PostId="5272" Score="0" Text="Gloome, does the rest of the madrigal mention Hippolytus at all? In what context?" CreationDate="2018-11-21T10:40:45.530" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11080" PostId="5284" Score="2" Text="This answer would be greatly improved with a citation!" CreationDate="2018-11-25T22:48:09.757" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11072" PostId="5285" Score="0" Text="It would be helpful to know, which flowers/plants she is holding. Can you describe them in more detail?" CreationDate="2018-11-23T18:35:05.417" UserId="955" />
  <row Id="11074" PostId="5285" Score="0" Text="Hi, user5575. Can you tell us more information about the photograph, like where it was taken?" CreationDate="2018-11-24T15:27:58.660" UserId="183" />
  <row Id="11078" PostId="5285" Score="0" Text="It was in a flea market" CreationDate="2018-11-25T15:40:57.880" UserId="5575" />
  <row Id="11073" PostId="5286" Score="0" Text="Isn't Demeter rather depicted with grain than with flowers?" CreationDate="2018-11-23T19:17:23.603" UserId="955" />
  <row Id="11079" PostId="5290" Score="2" Text="Great movie!  The DC comics mythos around these subjects is almost entirely invented *(and probably has many variations over the years.)*  When I get some time I'll attempt a detailed response--the funnest might be in regard to Zeus' creation of mankind.  In the actual canon, Zeus was highly antagonistic to humans, and even tried to wipe us out :)" CreationDate="2018-11-25T22:32:51.320" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11082" PostId="5290" Score="2" Text="Another way to couch it might be &quot;canonical&quot; vs. &quot;contemporary&quot;.  (The former refers to the material in the original Ancient sources.)  Mythology is always evolving--even in ancient days, later authors would tweak and evolve the work of earlier authors, so that Ovid accounts are often different from Hesiod's, as one example." CreationDate="2018-11-25T23:03:30.773" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11083" PostId="5290" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Oh I forgot. Post as answer? P.S. I finished movie. If Hippolyta was truthful and correct, then yeah it was a great movie! If Hippolyta was lying or incorrect, then thanks for not spoiling!" CreationDate="2018-11-26T14:56:17.087" UserId="614" />
  <row Id="11087" PostId="5290" Score="0" Text="@Gibet ayt. But beware of spoilers XD" CreationDate="2018-11-27T09:01:52.683" UserId="614" />
  <row Id="11090" PostId="5290" Score="0" Text="@Gibet did you mean to reply in the other post?" CreationDate="2018-11-27T09:04:15.840" UserId="614" />
  <row Id="11094" PostId="5291" Score="0" Text="Her hat, too, could be a polos, which Demeter and [Persephone](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bb/70/55/bb7055b0f4ba479defb5ed352d5ef257.jpg) both wore. (See [this link](http://www.rwaag.org/polos), which illustrates the various poloi with Barbie dolls.)" CreationDate="2018-11-29T23:03:52.473" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="11092" PostId="5299" Score="0" Text="That's an amazing answer. Thank you so much. Is there any more information about this Ibiga other then his being a heavenly god? (From your lead I found this link in case anyone is interested: https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=Rv7ujYXGl8UC&amp;pg=PA80&amp;lpg=PA80&amp;dq=&quot;ibiga&quot;+korean+god&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=YbkbAbzOHi&amp;sig=QEnbls75HNJr97UaR5toVherTQ8&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=2ahUKEwiWivyVxvneAhWUBIgKHXVWC40Q6AEwCnoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&amp;q=&quot;ibiga&quot;%20korean%20god&amp;f=false)" CreationDate="2018-11-29T12:03:35.257" UserId="5431" />
  <row Id="11093" PostId="5299" Score="1" Text="@Johan88 Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much information regarding Ibiga other than that he appears to be a god of the sky. The whole story seems to be concocted to glorify Daegaya after it displaced Suro's Geumgwan's political leadership of Gaya. If you want to dig deeper, consider asking a separate question on him specifically; you might find someone who knows more." CreationDate="2018-11-29T12:20:38.140" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="11096" PostId="5299" Score="0" Text="Amazing. Thank you very much. It's a pity, IMHO, that they fully mythologised their birth. It would be very interesting to know if their bloodlines travelled any further back into other more ancient royal bloodlines, or if not then to know the history of their rise to sovereignty, rather then merely descending into reality from heaven." CreationDate="2018-11-30T02:19:17.910" UserId="5431" />
  <row Id="11098" PostId="5303" Score="1" Text="This answer is also very good, I just accepted Lauren's answer above because it had the earlier timestamp.  Thanks to both of you!" CreationDate="2018-11-30T15:14:18.607" UserId="5600" />
  <row Id="11110" PostId="5304" Score="0" Text="This is [The Library of Babel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Library_of_Babel) by Jorge Luis Borges, and may be answered on [Literature SE](https://literature.stackexchange.com) already." CreationDate="2018-12-04T23:43:39.943" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11111" PostId="5304" Score="0" Text="It's not what I was thinking of, but it's a fun idea in itself. I had a scout around the Literature SE and didn't turn anything up." CreationDate="2018-12-05T17:58:17.023" UserId="5603" />
  <row Id="11129" PostId="5304" Score="0" Text="The Borges story is completely different from the one you are asking about. You can find it here: https://libraryofbabel.info/libraryofbabel.html" CreationDate="2018-12-07T23:33:34.583" UserId="1177" />
  <row Id="11104" PostId="5307" Score="0" Text="In many cases they just copy from one another. There are [historical studies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Near_Eastern_Texts_Relating_to_the_Old_Testament) that indicate the biblical flood is based on Mesopotamian stories like  Ziusudra, Gilgamesh, and Atrahasis." CreationDate="2018-12-03T17:17:06.820" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11113" PostId="5307" Score="1" Text="The ending of the last Ice Age (18000 to 8000 BC) saw a 120- meter rise of the sea level worldwide, that is 1.2m/100years, not much and people lived short lives. Nevertheless some form of memory probably persisted." CreationDate="2018-12-06T21:41:43.243" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="11112" PostId="5308" Score="0" Text="+1 I look for Bible-Mythology connections and the above interpretation could connect with &quot;return to the wife of your youth&quot; (Mal. 2:14, et al). Males and females seemingly already have 'spiritual mates' within. Wonder why Apollo could identify the bobbing figure but Artemis could not - vision problem or did emotion of the challenge cloud her vision?" CreationDate="2018-12-06T13:34:50.163" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="14418" PostId="5308" Score="0" Text="Worth mentioning: &quot;jealous&quot; in this context doesn't necessarily mean &quot;I want what you have,&quot; it can also mean &quot;fiercely protective or vigilant,&quot; as in &quot;a jealously guarded treasure.&quot; Apollo's jealousy of Artemis can be read as not wanting to share her attention, but it can also be read as the protectiveness of a brother who doesn't trust his sister's new boyfriend. In this case, the &quot;jealously guarded treasure&quot; would be Artemis's virginity, which she vowed to maintain but was considering abandoning for Orion. Still a jerk move, but a slightly different motivation." CreationDate="2021-05-01T00:16:44.147" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="11115" PostId="5312" Score="2" Text="Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been [moved to chat](https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/86584/discussion-on-question-by-johan88-was-korean-queen-heo-hwang-ok-indo-aryan-or-ta)." CreationDate="2018-12-04T03:38:56.593" UserDisplayName="sempaiscuba" />
  <row Id="11971" PostId="5312" Score="1" Text="Very important information for researches on Indo-Korean migration and cultural links." CreationDate="2019-09-29T23:39:28.523" UserId="6377" />
  <row Id="11972" PostId="5312" Score="0" Text="Thanks Professor! :)" CreationDate="2019-09-30T01:10:23.740" UserId="5431" />
  <row Id="11134" PostId="5314" Score="0" Text="I'm not aware of any travelling back in time in ancient myths, but a fun innovation in modern mythology is the idea that UFOs are not aliens, but people from the future." CreationDate="2018-12-10T18:47:44.630" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="12128" PostId="5314" Score="0" Text="To add to what @Gibet said, it is the general consensus on SE that a good question shouldn't be deleted, especially if it already has a answer deemed good by the community. If OP really does not want this or another question under his name, it is possible to ask SE staff to disassociate it from his account: https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/96746/261831" CreationDate="2019-12-20T07:02:30.407" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="13673" PostId="5314" Score="0" Text="Some possible examples here - https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/8496/time-travel-and-judaism" CreationDate="2020-07-18T20:36:46.640" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="11146" PostId="5317" Score="0" Text="@Dominictheinquisitive  Non-existence because no time passes in Brigadoon when it is not in the real world." CreationDate="2018-12-17T20:19:12.993" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11136" PostId="5318" Score="0" Text="What an exciting answer! My mother swears that they are creatures of HER grandmother's imagination &quot;to scare little kids&quot;, but I feel that these things are often steeped in some other history." CreationDate="2018-12-11T16:23:49.557" UserId="5619" />
  <row Id="11137" PostId="5318" Score="0" Text="Absolutely.  I agree with both your mother and yourself (it's rarely either/or, but most often a combination of imagination and prior history :)" CreationDate="2018-12-11T19:39:15.227" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11142" PostId="5325" Score="1" Text="Not all deluge myths are about wiping out humans; did you have a specific one in in mind? Pragmatically speaking it's because they observed or postulated a flood and then had to come up with a reason, so this was an obvious contender." CreationDate="2018-12-17T07:15:42.547" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="11143" PostId="5325" Score="1" Text="there were quite a few plagues in the Old Testament, IIRC, and in Norse mythology the end of the world comes in ice. Not every extinction-level myth uses flooding either." CreationDate="2018-12-17T11:11:16.577" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11147" PostId="5325" Score="1" Text="Hi, Xandra. You should specify what mythology you have in mind, because there are [a lot of deluge myths](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/2296/2807)  (link to a great answer by.Ken Graham). As it is now, the question is too broad." CreationDate="2018-12-18T04:29:38.727" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="11956" PostId="5325" Score="0" Text="[Flood myths](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth) such as the Babylonian [Gilgamesh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh), Biblical [Noah](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_flood_narrative), and Greek [Atlantis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis), are a remnant of the aftermath of the [last ice age](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Period), still lingering in the [collective consciousness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_consciousness)." CreationDate="2019-09-27T16:25:33.780" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="14548" PostId="5325" Score="0" Text="I have often wondered whether flood myths have basis in amniotic fluid. Each of us is born in a flood, after swimming and marinating in the stuff nine months or so." CreationDate="2021-07-19T11:58:42.730" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="11148" PostId="5336" Score="1" Text="These seem like scientific sources about when floods actually occurred, rather than sources about when mythologies date their floods to." CreationDate="2018-12-20T20:20:28.780" UserId="5017" />
  <row Id="11149" PostId="5336" Score="1" Text="@Alex Oh, I'm terribly sorry. I can't think of many stories that list dates in general. I hope you found it interesting anyway." CreationDate="2018-12-20T20:33:52.717" UserId="5640" />
  <row Id="11150" PostId="5336" Score="0" Text="Most probably don't. The story in the Old Testament does, though." CreationDate="2018-12-20T21:05:35.247" UserId="5017" />
  <row Id="14309" PostId="5338" Score="0" Text="Having some sources would help make this a better answer." CreationDate="2021-03-10T17:24:28.353" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="11154" PostId="5342" Score="0" Text="I can't tell what you are trying to say, even though I put space between the run on sentences. Please, go back though and amend the information you provided so that the meaning you give is not lost. In other words, please use periods." CreationDate="2018-12-29T23:05:57.573" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="11155" PostId="5346" Score="2" Text="I would interpret it to not having a _literal_ meaning, but instead to be a poetic device similar to how we might now say &quot;in the old days&quot; (queue meme of &quot;old man yells at cloud!&quot;). So I _think_ Athena is saying, be thankful you're not subject to the harsher rules of your less civilised ancestors; things are kinder in these modern days of 450BC (compared to, say, 900BC). Note: I'm not offering this as answer, because I have no evidence, and I really hope someone can provide a good, well-researched answer!" CreationDate="2018-12-30T01:25:54.727" UserId="5649" />
  <row Id="11158" PostId="5346" Score="1" Text="Please cite the source you are quoting." CreationDate="2019-01-01T16:53:33.040" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11171" PostId="5350" Score="0" Text="Excellent answer! I'm sure it's no coincidence Lucky Charms cereal was introduced only 17 years later compounding the association, I think we should start considering the association of Leprechauns and rainbows to be American rather than Irish folkore +1" CreationDate="2019-01-04T16:20:54.783" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="11168" PostId="5353" Score="3" Text="If you bite it and you die, it's poisonous - if it bites you and you die, it's venomous =)" CreationDate="2019-01-03T23:35:46.757" UserId="260" />
  <row Id="11160" PostId="5355" Score="2" Text="This was my - uninformed - opinion; that our concept of &quot;evil&quot; has been so thoroughly formed by the the Abrahamic religions that the term as we understand it would be largely meaningless in pre-christian western Europe." CreationDate="2019-01-03T15:02:48.250" UserId="5681" />
  <row Id="11161" PostId="5355" Score="3" Text="@BinaryWorrier what about the appeal to non-abrahamic polytheist religion that is still dominant, and where there are lots of evil humanoids, for example Hunduism. I am a Hindu and we everyday worship hundreds of Gods and Godesses." CreationDate="2019-01-03T15:05:54.167" UserId="5673" />
  <row Id="11162" PostId="5355" Score="0" Text="@Sonevol: Indeed, I bow to your experience. In my defence I can only point out that my opinion is &quot;uninformed&quot; :)" CreationDate="2019-01-03T15:12:33.387" UserId="5681" />
  <row Id="11163" PostId="5357" Score="0" Text="The explanation of the name is helpful, thank you. I'm aware of the song - tbh, that's how I learned of the entity and got most of the information from. Could you elaborate on the mythological background and properties of the creature a bit? It would add greatly to the answer, I believe." CreationDate="2019-01-03T15:27:29.667" UserId="5676" />
  <row Id="11164" PostId="5357" Score="0" Text="Nevermind, see edit, that should clear things up." CreationDate="2019-01-03T16:07:59.000" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11165" PostId="5357" Score="0" Text="I will wait a day or two before accepting the answer, in case anything else appears." CreationDate="2019-01-03T17:07:35.477" UserId="5676" />
  <row Id="11166" PostId="5357" Score="0" Text="Also regarding the name Könni, they were a famous family of smiths and clockmakers in 1700-1800s. There is a Finnish [wikipedia page](https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6nnin_mestarit) about them as well." CreationDate="2019-01-03T17:18:30.397" UserId="4884" />
  <row Id="11167" PostId="5358" Score="0" Text="Are those quotes not speaking more specifically of Gaul rather than Britain? The quote from De Bello Gallico is specifically referring to 'all the people of Gaul' and Strabo is writing before the conquest of Britain. I'm also certain the case of the sacrifice of Odran is the only case.." CreationDate="2019-01-03T22:37:00.760" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="11169" PostId="5358" Score="0" Text="At that time, the Gallic Empire consisted of the provinces of Gaul, Britannia, and Hispania. The Brittonic languages are actually a subdivision of the Celtic languages of Ancient Gaul." CreationDate="2019-01-03T23:50:59.053" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11170" PostId="5358" Score="2" Text="There was never a unified political unit of Gaul, Britannia, and Hispania before the Roman conquests and the only 'Gallic Empire' was the splinter state of 260–274 AD sans Hispania. The relationship between Brythonic and Gaulish has no real bearing on my point, their relationship has also come into question in recent decades, as per Koch 92 (though I'm not up to date on the debate). Note that I'm not disputing human sacrifice occurred Britain (we have the archaeology) but that those two quotes aren't sources for the British context." CreationDate="2019-01-04T00:04:51.377" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="11184" PostId="5358" Score="0" Text="@CharlieTizzardÓKevlahan &quot;The relationship between Brythonic and Gaulish has no real bearing on my point&quot; - then how do you explain that [populations that share the same root languages share cultural features](http://www.lib.nifs-k.ac.jp/nii/46-11.pdf)?" CreationDate="2019-01-11T17:54:58.150" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11185" PostId="5358" Score="0" Text="Because my point was that those two sources aren't talking about Britain (and are infact before any substantial Roman presence in Britain to write about the religion of Britain ) nothing more" CreationDate="2019-01-11T17:57:03.940" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="11175" PostId="5363" Score="1" Text="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twins_in_mythology" CreationDate="2019-01-06T04:54:16.220" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11242" PostId="5363" Score="0" Text="this works. But I was searching for something for twins/clones.  ex: Ares is the Greek god of war, Similarly I wanted to find a god/goddess of twins/clones. Thanks for answering." CreationDate="2019-01-30T20:29:07.290" UserId="5689" />
  <row Id="11271" PostId="5363" Score="2" Text="As @tom said, I don't think there's is any god for this. Because gods are imagined to explain natural phenomenon like thunder etc. But I never saw a clone or anything being cloned. If you find a god of [starfish](http://www.starfishfacts.org/regeneration_and_self_cloning.html) or of [earthworms](https://animals.howstuffworks.com/animal-facts/earthworm3.htm), this may be your only option. But I still think nobody in theses times cared about those species enough to create a cult or so." CreationDate="2019-02-08T13:28:17.300" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11190" PostId="5378" Score="0" Text="Not really the same and definitely not Myth, but the question reminds me of Maja from Adventure Times." CreationDate="2019-01-14T09:04:20.630" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="11192" PostId="5379" Score="0" Text="It's interesting that Medea's patron was Helios (the *deus ex machina* in her play.)  I wonder if the fading of the stars could have something to do with sunrise...  Pure speculation, mind you." CreationDate="2019-01-14T21:26:28.060" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11194" PostId="5381" Score="0" Text="I can't see this being the answer.  The sea urchin is not a plant and modern discoveries like omega-3 would not explain the ancient myths." CreationDate="2019-01-15T11:40:54.727" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="11195" PostId="5382" Score="1" Text="You may want to take a look at the [Tinkerbell Effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinkerbell_effect) if you didn't already" CreationDate="2019-01-15T14:27:32.193" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11196" PostId="5382" Score="1" Text="I also remember that they named something like that in the anime Mob Psycho 100 season 2 episode 2 that I watched yesterday but I can't remember the name right now. I'll look at this later" CreationDate="2019-01-15T14:33:52.093" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11209" PostId="5382" Score="2" Text="You may be interested in the concept of a 'Tulpa' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa" CreationDate="2019-01-18T13:32:19.387" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="11211" PostId="5382" Score="3" Text="It's not clear whether you're asking for the name of: (a) this _collection of beliefs_, (b) the _collection of objects of such beliefs_, regardless of whether the thing believed in really exists, or (c) the _the collection of objects of such beliefs_ when the object actually does exist for realsies. Eg, the Answer already given about cryptids would be an answer to part (b), but it doesn't address part (a), and it only addresses part (c) in the rare situations where a cryptid turns out to be real (eg platypus)." CreationDate="2019-01-19T00:17:08.363" UserId="5649" />
  <row Id="11480" PostId="5382" Score="1" Text="You seem to be looking for the term &quot;mythical&quot; or &quot;legendary&quot;." CreationDate="2019-04-15T06:48:54.247" UserId="5967" />
  <row Id="16358" PostId="5382" Score="0" Text="Some fellow reportedly claimed that you cannot serve both, but I nominate both money and God as examples of this process." CreationDate="2023-05-12T12:04:19.203" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="11197" PostId="5386" Score="2" Text="Maybe I'll go for [Hermes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes) as the emissary and messenger of gods, he is supposed to be real quick. I don't know if he really is the quickest tho" CreationDate="2019-01-17T14:17:39.330" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11198" PostId="5386" Score="0" Text="I wasn't thinking of the twelve Gods, I was focusing more on less devine characters @Calaom, but yes, definitely Hermes, with his flying sandals would be a superb candidate. Since we cannot really enjoy their speed in the Olympic games, I think that an answer of yours with Hermes will be great!" CreationDate="2019-01-17T14:23:22.250" UserId="5594" />
  <row Id="11199" PostId="5386" Score="0" Text="There you have my answer but I think we can still find some fairly quick characters" CreationDate="2019-01-17T15:08:19.347" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11200" PostId="5388" Score="2" Text="Helios is also a great candidate! Pheidippides is the one that inspired the Marathon run, which is mostly based on stamina, rather than speed. However, I can imagine him going at full speed, yet if I would use it in my phrase in question, people would probably think about the stamina-based sport. I think, I would choose Hermes, since an airplane inspired this question in the first place!" CreationDate="2019-01-17T15:13:47.713" UserId="5594" />
  <row Id="11215" PostId="5388" Score="0" Text="Also, Roman counterpart of Hermes is Mercury and we consider Mercury (**quick**silver) to be connected with speed." CreationDate="2019-01-22T01:02:03.450" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="11230" PostId="5388" Score="2" Text="If you're going to prooose hermes, tou'll also have to mention [Iris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_(mythology))." CreationDate="2019-01-26T01:24:56.543" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11322" PostId="5388" Score="2" Text="Hermes fell in love with Apemosyne, but Apemosyne fled from him. Hermes could not catch her, because she ran faster than him.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apemosyne" CreationDate="2019-02-19T08:58:59.567" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11327" PostId="5388" Score="2" Text="@Tom I could not believe that a mortal woman would outrun one of the messenger gods, but you prove me wrong! Sad that she couldn't run from the wrath of her brother though, because from her womb could have come an even greater sprinter (that could have also avenge her from his father)" CreationDate="2019-02-20T08:48:33.870" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11328" PostId="5388" Score="2" Text="@Calaom I happened on it while i was researching my own question, you immediately came to mind , happy to help!" CreationDate="2019-02-20T09:21:09.757" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13975" PostId="5389" Score="0" Text="To be picky, &quot;* no such thing as cloning in ancient times*&quot; isn't quite true in general.  People have cloned plants since the beginning of agriculture, and fishermen used to inadvertently clone starfish (they'd tear them up to kill them, but each piece would then grow into a full starfish)." CreationDate="2020-10-21T14:28:28.457" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="11201" PostId="5390" Score="0" Text="So is it a misconception that the bolts had to be forged by Hephaestus?" CreationDate="2019-01-17T23:12:54.993" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="11204" PostId="5390" Score="2" Text="Yes Hepheastus is rarely named. If they where forged it would be the 3 Kyklopes.&#xA;in some stories he has an infinte amount of lightning bolts that he carries around in a bucket or sack. But back to the point, if you see how many powers a god has if you take the weapon away, they are pretty damn powerfull." CreationDate="2019-01-17T23:58:12.043" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11206" PostId="5392" Score="0" Text="Yes! Achilles was indeed blazing fast, but I have Achilles in my mind as an actual human being, which his fame produced this mythological veil surrounding him, but still, a superb candidate." CreationDate="2019-01-18T07:19:18.833" UserId="5594" />
  <row Id="14090" PostId="5400" Score="0" Text="&quot;this link&quot; points to a google search. No good praying to God Google. Can't find anything there matching your question." CreationDate="2021-01-02T18:28:05.423" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="14109" PostId="5400" Score="0" Text="@Gyro It's a book although paywalled. Perhaps google has changed something and now the fragment is not previewed." CreationDate="2021-01-05T11:03:23.490" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="14116" PostId="5400" Score="0" Text="&quot;Perhaps google has changed something&quot; ... no, God Google does not have to change anything. The internet is changing every fraction of a second, and God Google reflects this. But God Google may change what someone sees also on Geo-location restrictions or for any other reasons. A link to a google search has no value at all. And, anyone can write &quot;a book&quot;." CreationDate="2021-01-06T16:11:44.147" UserId="1162" />
  <row Id="14122" PostId="5400" Score="0" Text="@Gyro It is not a random google search, it is Google Books. The same book exists outside of google." CreationDate="2021-01-08T16:55:04.840" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="11217" PostId="5401" Score="0" Text="But &quot;let me climb up with you&quot; formulation suggests that it is he who is going to climb mountains and that is she who wants to accompany him. Or maybe that's just a translation issue? However, I see now, that the interpretation is pretty awkward." CreationDate="2019-01-22T12:36:17.290" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="11219" PostId="5401" Score="0" Text="Well, I hardly can assume Inanna is similar to Eve. Inanna does not have children, does she? And Eve's name is &quot;Lifebringer&quot;." CreationDate="2019-01-22T13:00:55.300" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="11221" PostId="5401" Score="0" Text="Well, regarding her revengefulness there are three examples. One with a gardener, one with Dumuzid and one with Gilgamesh. The last one seems to be a later rework, since there are earlier myths where Gilgamesh is not somehow &quot;punished&quot;. Therefore, two genuine examples only. Actually, I see her pretty much as a feminist character." CreationDate="2019-01-22T14:25:34.763" UserId="4263" />
  <row Id="11228" PostId="5407" Score="2" Text="Not such of a famous candidate, but certainly a good one! However, what surprised me is that sentence (off-topic): &quot;The belief at the time was that lions could not mate with their own species, only with leopards&quot;! :O" CreationDate="2019-01-25T21:59:25.110" UserId="5594" />
  <row Id="11229" PostId="5407" Score="1" Text="They had a lot of interesting beliefs!  (I disagree that she is not famous though--the story of her footrace is incredibly well known.)" CreationDate="2019-01-25T22:05:20.837" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11232" PostId="5413" Score="2" Text="The Indian tribes isn't much of a religion but is certainly interesting.  Need a citation.  Unfortunately non of these religions are still around." CreationDate="2019-01-28T04:07:12.023" UserId="3302" />
  <row Id="11233" PostId="5413" Score="0" Text="@William, Native American Animism is closer to religion than Buddhism as it has the concept of Great Spirits, e.g. [Wakan Taka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Spirit). Buddhism has no creator deities that gave a rulebook to mankind." CreationDate="2019-01-28T08:22:43.443" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11234" PostId="5413" Score="2" Text="@Codosaur it states nothing of God so kinda up for you to decide.  It believes that nothing lasts forever therefore if there is a good he may or may not exist." CreationDate="2019-01-28T10:59:29.887" UserId="3302" />
  <row Id="11278" PostId="5413" Score="0" Text="Can you add Wakan Taka to the answer maybe.  It seem to be the best answer by far." CreationDate="2019-02-11T01:01:05.110" UserId="3302" />
  <row Id="11277" PostId="5414" Score="0" Text="As far as i know, no&#xA;when Typhon challenged Zeus for control some gods stood with him (Nike and Athena). but this was just this once." CreationDate="2019-02-10T23:33:06.887" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11235" PostId="5419" Score="0" Text="Thanks! pretty interesting, although you _could_ say that Thor used a staff as another weapon once ;)" CreationDate="2019-01-28T20:51:22.507" UserId="5762" />
  <row Id="11239" PostId="5420" Score="1" Text="There we could use a community answer with timeline comparisons from all the religions where we can find a Satan-like creature" CreationDate="2019-01-30T07:58:58.577" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11290" PostId="5420" Score="1" Text="Okay @Tom, I open my answer to community wiki, just hope that people won't change completely its original form" CreationDate="2019-02-13T14:00:45.663" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11291" PostId="5420" Score="1" Text="@Calaom If hope the people here will be respectful. It's a well written piece." CreationDate="2019-02-13T19:08:58.900" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11243" PostId="5424" Score="0" Text="Hello @drago mothra and welcome to Myth and Folklore stackexchange. Take a bit of time to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). You seem to be all new on the Stackexchange network, so know that most of our Q&amp;A doesn't allow too broad questions because they don't enable you to get one best and/or perfect answer. So I will suggest a modification to your question to limit it to the Egyptian culture.&#xA;&#xA;Appart for that we expect people to show that they made some research on their own (at least a quick google research)" CreationDate="2019-01-31T10:35:53.897" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11288" PostId="5427" Score="0" Text="Ammit is old indeed but is missing the background I was searching for.&#xA;Still a great read!" CreationDate="2019-02-13T10:49:05.680" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11267" PostId="5428" Score="0" Text="What was the oldest written version?" CreationDate="2019-02-05T02:55:37.733" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="14224" PostId="5428" Score="0" Text="What's the source on that story?" CreationDate="2021-02-19T21:35:53.577" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="11259" PostId="5431" Score="1" Text="This answer provides some useful context, but I'd caution you on the ~1800 BCE date for Prometheus.  Although the oral tradition may be much older than the textual tradition, [the first recorded stories of Prometheus come to use from the 8th Century BCE, via Hesiod.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus#Oldest_legends)" CreationDate="2019-02-01T18:31:06.783" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11260" PostId="5431" Score="1" Text="Specifically, the ~1800 BCE reference from Cartwirght, Mark. &quot;Greek Mythology&quot;. Ancient History Encyclopedia, is highly speculative, with no evidence as to the origin of Prometheus in the oral tradition from that timeframe." CreationDate="2019-02-01T18:34:39.313" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11265" PostId="5431" Score="2" Text="@DukeZhou Thanks for pointing that out, updated the answer" CreationDate="2019-02-04T08:07:38.980" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11263" PostId="5432" Score="1" Text="I am very interested in more detail!" CreationDate="2019-02-03T18:09:22.507" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11287" PostId="5432" Score="1" Text="@Tom Updated.  :)" CreationDate="2019-02-13T01:11:59.540" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11266" PostId="5435" Score="0" Text="Hi Jeffrey, this answer would be greatly improved if you could provide some sources." CreationDate="2019-02-04T15:51:48.443" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="11269" PostId="5443" Score="0" Text="This is very borad. Would the [Ages of Man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_Man) fit the bill, perhaps?" CreationDate="2019-02-07T18:53:09.127" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11270" PostId="5443" Score="0" Text="No, I ask for beings that came before mankind, not humans that came before other humans." CreationDate="2019-02-07T20:11:28.283" UserDisplayName="user5459" />
  <row Id="11272" PostId="5443" Score="0" Text="Btw what do you exactly mean by &quot;rational&quot; beings?" CreationDate="2019-02-08T13:31:30.680" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11273" PostId="5443" Score="0" Text="Beings with at least human-level intelligence that can reason." CreationDate="2019-02-08T21:19:03.520" UserDisplayName="user5459" />
  <row Id="11276" PostId="5443" Score="2" Text="The shedim from jewish lore could be one.&#xA;the shedim is the jewish counterpart of the jinn if im not mistaken." CreationDate="2019-02-10T23:03:18.837" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11286" PostId="5443" Score="0" Text="This is very broad, because in many myths deities of some sort (or other supernatural beings) created humanity - wouldn't that satisfy your criteria?" CreationDate="2019-02-10T17:56:00.233" UserId="292" />
  <row Id="11955" PostId="5448" Score="1" Text="S + Thor + M = storm. :-)" CreationDate="2019-09-27T16:10:12.140" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="11966" PostId="5448" Score="0" Text="Hahahahahahaha that's the answer I was looking for" CreationDate="2019-09-28T17:13:06.737" UserId="5710" />
  <row Id="11284" PostId="5453" Score="0" Text="But does the story specifically say the water will burn them?" CreationDate="2019-02-11T22:43:40.540" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11285" PostId="5454" Score="1" Text="This is an interesting answer, but it would be improved if you could e.g. link to an image of a letter similar to the amulet, or in some other way provide supporting evidence." CreationDate="2019-02-12T07:31:05.220" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="11305" PostId="5454" Score="0" Text="[This Pinterest](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/550213279447552419/?lp=true) has some letter art that looks similar." CreationDate="2019-02-16T10:27:34.387" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11302" PostId="5457" Score="4" Text="I saw this video essay on the topic the other day, it's quite well thought through and researched, and comes to some interesting conclusions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kpkp2vxX3I" CreationDate="2019-02-15T12:47:20.720" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="13880" PostId="5457" Score="0" Text="There's also the suggestion that Nephilim were what we now refer to as Neanderthal, and we know that they *did* interbreed, providing a significant part of European DNA." CreationDate="2020-09-12T13:48:45.630" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="13895" PostId="5457" Score="0" Text="The problem with this question is that you're not clear about what you're looking for. Are you looking for a direct correspondence? A theological one or some sort of anthropological myth-tracing? Or are you just looking for some sort of analogy?" CreationDate="2020-09-16T14:52:57.947" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="13913" PostId="5457" Score="1" Text="Hello Tom! I don't have time for a full answer at the moment, but wanted to point out that Second Temple literature (e.g., 1–2 Enoch) considered the Nephilim/Rephaim to be divine/human hybrids. Archie Wright has traced the reception history of this passage throughout Jewish and early Christian tradition in https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/1451490321 (admittedly, the book is technical and assumes knowledge of the primary source languages) and suggests that the &quot;unclean spirits&quot; of the NT (&quot;demons&quot;) were viewed as disembodied spirits of departed Nephilim (*not* fallen angels)." CreationDate="2020-10-01T15:46:20.417" UserId="7282" />
  <row Id="13914" PostId="5457" Score="1" Text="Also, the Greek term sometimes used in the NT for such unclean spirits (δαίμων, &quot;demon&quot;) is the same term used throughout Greek literature for gods / divine beings seen as &quot;souls of men of the golden age, acting as tutelary deities&quot; (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%2323243&amp;redirect=true)" CreationDate="2020-10-01T15:52:06.723" UserId="7282" />
  <row Id="11292" PostId="5461" Score="3" Text="It's nice to add sources, in this case it seems to be [List of rape victims from ancient history and mythology (Wiipedia)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rape_victims_from_ancient_history_and_mythology)" CreationDate="2019-02-14T05:16:41.373" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="11295" PostId="5461" Score="0" Text="@Gibet I am familiar with the fact that this happened in pretty much every mythology, but Greek mythology seems to use it a lot. And i was wondering if there was a special reason for this behaviour apart from being the go-to for writers." CreationDate="2019-02-14T09:08:06.707" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11296" PostId="5461" Score="3" Text="That Wikipedia list seems to be incomplete. Check [Mythological rape victims](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mythological_rape_victims), a Wikipedia related category." CreationDate="2019-02-14T09:27:58.303" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="11331" PostId="5461" Score="1" Text="Greek mythology is also full of horrific murders--Procne &amp; Philomel is one of the most lurid examples featuring both, as is the story of Atreus and Thyestes (Thyestes rapes his own daughter, and both stories involve cannibalism of one's own child.)  Are you interested in general answers? My sense is sex and violence sells, whether it be the 5th Century BCE or 2018, but there is also a pattern in the acts of the gods being reflected by humans, which may have a ritual component." CreationDate="2019-02-20T21:52:16.870" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11332" PostId="5461" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou I am interested in general answers as well but will keep the question open for some time in hope of a more compatible answer. But more info in this general direction is always appreciated!" CreationDate="2019-02-20T21:56:15.480" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11333" PostId="5461" Score="2" Text="Have you read Shakespeare's [Rape of Lucrece](https://www.folger.edu/lucrece)?  One of his great achievements was giving woman a voice, creating real female characters, and the pity his poem evokes is astonishing.  Likewise with Ovid's account of Philomel.  So there may be a humanistic element related to catharsis (fear and pity), the central tool of the Greek dramatists, with Euripides as a strongly feminist author." CreationDate="2019-02-20T22:06:28.993" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11936" PostId="5461" Score="0" Text="Why wouldn't it be ? Haven't both intercourse (of which rape is sometimes part of) and war (the latter being usually associated with plunder, which includes rape) been common human activities since time immemorial ?" CreationDate="2019-09-27T07:54:04.937" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="13819" PostId="5461" Score="0" Text="Story-wise, certain versions have Nemesis raped by her father Zeus, laying eggs that give rise to Castor, Pollux, Helen, and Clytemnestra, when the eggs are hatched by Leda. https://www.theoi.com/Daimon/Nemesis.html" CreationDate="2020-08-19T03:01:26.747" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="12318" PostId="5463" Score="0" Text="Most Jewish historians believe they were simply men! You need to reference your sources." CreationDate="2020-01-29T12:07:15.683" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="11342" PostId="5464" Score="0" Text="Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been [moved to chat](https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/90082/discussion-on-answer-by-codosaur-how-many-ancient-greek-names-got-their-english)." CreationDate="2019-02-22T09:42:09.517" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="11505" PostId="5465" Score="0" Text="Interesting. How did you arrive at this?" CreationDate="2019-04-18T21:13:19.590" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="11311" PostId="5466" Score="0" Text="Is it possible to include your sources?" CreationDate="2019-02-17T13:59:48.973" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11312" PostId="5466" Score="0" Text="That would be a little difficult, as this was largely the product of studies and reading remembered from years ago, on the part of me and my wife. I know Wikipedia has some of it, and it may have sources listed. I also referred to Lewis &amp; Short. Any referencing during writing was basically to check we weren't misremembering." CreationDate="2019-02-17T14:07:26.997" UserId="5793" />
  <row Id="11335" PostId="5472" Score="1" Text="You might want to look into [sacred mysteries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_mysteries), [mystery religions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman_mysteries), and the [Eleusinian Mysteries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusinian_Mysteries).  I don't know that there were formal realms, excepting the underworld and the heavens." CreationDate="2019-02-21T01:32:26.553" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11341" PostId="5474" Score="1" Text="`Why would people start saying a king is married to a goddess?` Propaganda to justify the king's lineage as divinely qualified to rule." CreationDate="2019-02-22T09:41:28.680" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="11346" PostId="5474" Score="0" Text="There is the concept of the &quot;[Great Marriage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieros_gamos)&quot;, but the wiki is somewhat limited in scope.  (I was taught that it could involve a human and a deity, typically with mortal consequences for the human.)" CreationDate="2019-02-22T19:05:56.897" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11408" PostId="5474" Score="0" Text="I wanted the deeper reason for the belief. Since it seems random to say &quot;He's meant to rule, so he's married to Ishtar/other goddess&quot;, there must be a reason for saying and believing such a thing. How exactly did this belief arise and qualify him as fit to rule?" CreationDate="2019-03-05T18:40:59.217" UserDisplayName="user5459" />
  <row Id="11506" PostId="5476" Score="0" Text="What do you mean by, &quot;Jesus is 100% and and 100% God?&quot;" CreationDate="2019-04-18T21:17:00.287" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="11508" PostId="5476" Score="0" Text="@andrewjohnson When I said Jesus is 100% man and 100% God, I mean that while He is a human, He is also God. He is not part God, part human. Rather, He is God with wearing human flesh, in a manner of speaking." CreationDate="2019-04-19T01:09:13.017" UserId="3947" />
  <row Id="11509" PostId="5476" Score="0" Text="Since Jesus is fully human and yet perfect, His sacrifice was eligible to atone for (or cover) the sins of a human. And since He is fully God, His sacrifice is able to atone for all the sins of every human. Since He is not part angel, His sacrifice does not cover their sins. This is another reason why fallen angels cannot be forgiven." CreationDate="2019-04-19T01:15:55.327" UserId="3947" />
  <row Id="11357" PostId="5483" Score="2" Text="Hi, do you have any sort of evidence for this being mythological rather than a SF trope? The obvious point of reference for me is RA Heinlein's short story &quot;Universe&quot;.  This may do better over on [SF&amp;F](https://scifi.stackexchange.com)." CreationDate="2019-02-23T16:15:23.377" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11358" PostId="5483" Score="0" Text="I'll try it over in SF as well. Thanks for the tip. I posted it here because the idea is always presented as being part of the mythical history of the middle east. This historical aspect makes it seem like a myth to my mind" CreationDate="2019-02-23T18:37:48.170" UserId="5834" />
  <row Id="11360" PostId="5483" Score="1" Text="Cross-post at https://scifi.stackexchange.com/q/205965/4918 . In the future, if you ask a question in two forums, please link them both ways." CreationDate="2019-02-24T11:23:45.963" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="11363" PostId="5486" Score="1" Text="that would involve one or both parties to the conception paying *very close attention* to when conception might have happened. If the parties had sex several days in a row around conception time, who knows which one took? Also, who would want to focus on &quot;when my parents had sex&quot;?" CreationDate="2019-02-25T11:27:56.393" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11368" PostId="5486" Score="0" Text="Well I would think not about _when_ my parents had sex. I would rather think ... _when_ I came to world?. ;-)" CreationDate="2019-02-26T17:52:10.413" UserId="5844" />
  <row Id="11370" PostId="5486" Score="1" Text="that's the problem: conception is about when your parents came. You came to the world 40-odd weeks later." CreationDate="2019-02-26T17:58:41.870" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11383" PostId="5486" Score="1" Text="I don't know about you, but for me I came to world few hours after my parents came ;-)" CreationDate="2019-03-01T16:08:58.213" UserId="5844" />
  <row Id="11387" PostId="5486" Score="0" Text="no, dear, your blastocyst assembled a few hours etc. etc. *You* didn't arrive until you exited mum. :)" CreationDate="2019-03-02T01:33:01.610" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11369" PostId="5487" Score="2" Text="Oh! what two nice traditions (included the african fable). Thank you to bring us these approaches.&#xA;I thought there was a culture that lived this tradition of celebrating day of conception. Probably I read that on a fantasy book or something like that. &#xA;I will wait a bit until give you the &quot;correct answer&quot;." CreationDate="2019-02-26T17:55:03.920" UserId="5844" />
  <row Id="11371" PostId="5487" Score="1" Text="@wadjakman Glad to see that you are not wanting narrow answers exactly about the day of conception" CreationDate="2019-02-27T08:32:18.860" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11429" PostId="5488" Score="0" Text="Hey, also, contacme about this game. Sure it as challenge build something alone. Cheers" CreationDate="2019-03-12T01:57:53.417" UserId="1315" />
  <row Id="11445" PostId="5488" Score="1" Text="I went with &quot;Ouroboros&quot;: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros#Ancient_Egypt&#xA;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros#The_%22world_serpent%22_in_mythology&#xA;&#xA;I already had Apep the chaos serpent in the game as a monster.&#xA;Thanks for the input everyone!" CreationDate="2019-03-21T20:30:22.143" UserId="5705" />
  <row Id="11446" PostId="5488" Score="0" Text="I am thinking about making the &quot;World Tree&quot; card span the 4 Mythologies Greek+Egypt+Maya+Norse though, so I'm searching for another Maya+Norse idea at the moment :-)." CreationDate="2019-03-21T20:37:07.913" UserId="5705" />
  <row Id="11395" PostId="5490" Score="0" Text="Offhand I think about goddesses like [Tiamat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiamat). Is this the type of stuff you're looking for?  (I haven't ready Peterson so wouldn't be able to comment directly on his work.)" CreationDate="2019-03-02T22:41:24.170" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11366" PostId="5492" Score="2" Text="This is not a demon but an Egyptian god, known for arbitrating disputes and helping gods in general https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth . Another starting point could be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_knowledge_deities&#xA;I am not familiar with any demons but hope this is helpful anyway." CreationDate="2019-02-26T13:53:39.440" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11367" PostId="5492" Score="2" Text="Did you come upon the [Moirai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moirai) and their [Theoi page](https://www.theoi.com/Daimon/Moirai.html), they are also known as the Fates in the Greek mythology and have the Parcae as equivalent in the roman one. They are not demons by themselves but their ascendance often refers to dark (not necessarily evil in any point) and mysterious deities. &quot;They controlled the mother thread of life of every mortal from birth to death.&quot; suits well what you want" CreationDate="2019-02-26T14:44:11.220" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11382" PostId="5492" Score="2" Text="&quot;Scheming&quot; is an adjective very commonly associated with Zeus, although he is a &quot;sky father&quot;.  However, Prometheus' name means &quot;forethought&quot;, which connotes strategy, and he tricks Zeus more than once.  (Prometheus is one of the templates for the fallen angels--would he qualify?)" CreationDate="2019-02-28T18:36:11.087" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11372" PostId="5493" Score="2" Text="An interesting perspective. Do you think you could point us to sources that describe Satan as serpentine? Also, can you elaborate on why that makes him a seraph?" CreationDate="2019-02-27T09:18:45.197" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11933" PostId="5494" Score="0" Text="See *[Cronus: Name and comparative mythology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronus#Name_and_comparative_mythology)*." CreationDate="2019-09-27T07:26:02.583" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="11375" PostId="5495" Score="3" Text="That is... an excellent point! Welcome to the site." CreationDate="2019-02-27T14:47:38.790" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11378" PostId="5495" Score="2" Text="@yannis I find Goya's *[Saturn Devouring His Son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_Devouring_His_Son#/media/File:Francisco_de_Goya,_Saturno_devorando_a_su_hijo_(1819-1823).jpg)* strongly affirms this idea." CreationDate="2019-02-27T21:54:14.283" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16434" PostId="5495" Score="0" Text="One does note that this is, after all, Greek myth.  If a goddess gives birth to a stone or a daughter, either one might turn out to be the son who would kill him." CreationDate="2023-07-26T12:20:16.483" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="11379" PostId="5498" Score="1" Text="https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/11590/what-does-it-mean-to-weep-for-tammuz" CreationDate="2019-02-28T00:01:30.807" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11380" PostId="5498" Score="2" Text="[Oedipus story](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/1227/why-is-the-oedipus-complex-named-after-oedipus) seems to be a good answer but you should really explain how you would chose an answer on top of another (If they both speak about a big grief, how do you chose the best one). This make me think that this question is a bit too broad" CreationDate="2019-02-28T14:17:26.520" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11381" PostId="5499" Score="4" Text="Good question. My understanding is it is fundamentally related to the &quot;mercurial&quot; quality of the god.  I'll think on it, and see if I can cobble together an answer (likely to be general as esoteric writings are not so available and easy to reference online.)" CreationDate="2019-02-28T17:35:47.520" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11384" PostId="5499" Score="2" Text="The etymologies are worth examining.  I did a quick search on Perseus for [ἑρμ](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/resolveform?type=start&amp;lookup=erm&amp;lang=greek) / [ἐρη](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/resolveform?type=start&amp;lookup=erh&amp;lang=greek) (although I wasn't able to get a list specifying the aspiration.)  My sense of the connection with deserts has to do with trade and trade routes, and the use of pillars of stones (&quot;[herms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herma)&quot; used to guide travelers." CreationDate="2019-03-01T18:55:38.113" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11385" PostId="5499" Score="2" Text="The concept of interpretation seems to come from this idea that a monument is a symbol, which is attributed to Euripides in the LSJ entry for ἑρμήν-ευμα: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3De(rmh%2Fneuma.  It's been a while since I looked at this, so I'll need a little time to compile info, but I think I can answer." CreationDate="2019-03-01T19:00:34.087" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11398" PostId="5499" Score="1" Text="Maybe these links help? https://www.etymonline.com/word/hermit &amp;&amp; https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Hermes#/Etymology_and_origins" CreationDate="2019-03-04T20:24:44.177" UserId="116" />
  <row Id="11428" PostId="5499" Score="1" Text="That is a nice question. Maybe this is still &quot;hermetically sealed&quot; and as you said, the term &quot;hermetic&quot; is also equivalent to &quot;occult&quot; or hidden.&quot; I guess is the case for now, until you find out. I guess one possible link, not a clear one, is that Hermes is connected to the occult, so the gypsy people who carried occult knowledge like tarot (derived from Thot-Hermes) can be considered hermits in some way? Maybe this could be a lead. Hope it helps, seeker." CreationDate="2019-03-12T01:47:56.930" UserId="1315" />
  <row Id="16174" PostId="5501" Score="0" Text="Poseidon also snatches up Pelops to the same effect. Pindar, who seems to have invented that story (or its placement in myth) contrasts it with bad stories of the gods and their friends (i.e. Tantalus eating Pelops), indicating that he thought this was a good and appropriate action for Poseidon to take." CreationDate="2022-11-04T16:46:03.963" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="11386" PostId="5502" Score="0" Text="Could you elaborate why Ajax is being solipsistic? More a personal curiosity :)" CreationDate="2019-03-02T01:31:54.023" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11388" PostId="5502" Score="1" Text="@Tom Not in the formal sense of the world, which refers to a philosophical position, but in the common sense, as being self-centered.  ([Definition 1.1](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/solipsism) in the OED)" CreationDate="2019-03-02T02:00:52.123" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11389" PostId="5502" Score="0" Text="and immediately i get it! Still hoping that there was a philosophical position that i was not familiar with." CreationDate="2019-03-02T02:04:24.177" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11390" PostId="5502" Score="1" Text="@Tom added a note on Ajax, explaining briefly the shame/honor paradigm of the heroic age." CreationDate="2019-03-02T02:10:05.020" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11391" PostId="5502" Score="0" Text="Well written and true! @DukeZhou" CreationDate="2019-03-02T02:13:49.257" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11393" PostId="5505" Score="1" Text="Isn't this rather broad?" CreationDate="2019-03-02T19:57:26.310" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11394" PostId="5505" Score="0" Text="@Spencer I was inspired by [mythological examples of emotionally-charged symbolic acts of grief?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/5498/what-are-some-mythological-examples-of-emotionally-charged-symbolic-acts-of-grie)" CreationDate="2019-03-02T21:33:14.373" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11397" PostId="5505" Score="1" Text="strictly speaking, Narcissus &quot;died&quot; (was transformed into a flower) for love of himself, and then Echo &quot;died&quot; (was transformed into a spirit) for unrequired love of Narcissus." CreationDate="2019-03-03T13:53:10.760" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11403" PostId="5511" Score="1" Text="Didn't they take it from Orson Scott Cards novel?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Son_(novel)" CreationDate="2019-03-05T13:34:55.670" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11404" PostId="5511" Score="1" Text="@Tom The song was partly inspired by the novel, yes. Are you saying that Orson Scott Card added clairvoyance to the long list of powers attributed to seventh sons of a seventh son?" CreationDate="2019-03-05T13:43:38.430" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11409" PostId="5511" Score="1" Text="@Tom This is much older than Orson Scott Card." CreationDate="2019-03-05T21:25:20.110" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11415" PostId="5511" Score="2" Text="For example, the Willie Dixon blues song &quot;[The Seventh Son](https://youtu.be/vaDHse7LDA0)&quot; shows that this was already in popular folklore (_Well, I can tell your future/Before it come to pass/And I can do things for you/That make your heart feel glad/Look in the skies/And predict the rain/I can tell when a woman/Got another man_)....." CreationDate="2019-03-07T03:16:15.187" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11410" PostId="5512" Score="7" Text="Really spicy bologna." CreationDate="2019-03-05T23:24:30.783" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11442" PostId="5512" Score="0" Text="Funny side note from WorldBuilding.SE: [How to butcher your dragon?](https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/63016/28789)" CreationDate="2019-03-21T12:05:27.693" UserId="4144" />
  <row Id="11750" PostId="5512" Score="0" Text="Dragon liver can cure a cold, dragon powder grows hair. With dragon blood you'll never grow old. Dragon cartilage keeps you thin, dragon fat is for burns, a dragon tear will clear up your skin.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTMe5p_eTZg" CreationDate="2019-07-25T03:49:15.147" UserId="6167" />
  <row Id="11416" PostId="5514" Score="2" Text="IIRC he had a whole bucket of them, or they were frequently made for him, so no, lightning was just ammunition like bullets. He didn't throw a single bolt which returned to him like Thor did with Mjolnir (*lightning* is one of the derivations of the name's meaning)." CreationDate="2019-03-07T11:21:36.360" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11417" PostId="5514" Score="4" Text="@LaurenIpsum He got the bucket or pouch from the cyclopes which would infinitely fill itself. As you said this would mean that he would be spending them like bullets. There might be name for the pouch? Like a man naming his weapon but not the bullets." CreationDate="2019-03-08T21:29:45.707" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11418" PostId="5514" Score="2" Text="In French Zeus has *le foudre* which is different from the natural phenomenon *la* foudre. Also in German there are Donnerkeil and Donner.  It's a clue that needs  some search." CreationDate="2019-03-08T21:37:17.427" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="11419" PostId="5514" Score="1" Text="Hesiod has keraunos vs brontes." CreationDate="2019-03-08T22:00:42.640" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="11422" PostId="5516" Score="1" Text="I can see how this question is broad and could be seen as out of scope, but I don't think it causes harm, and is actually useful.  We field a lot of questions about mythological figures, but have very few about the field of mythology." CreationDate="2019-03-09T04:31:57.553" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11427" PostId="5516" Score="1" Text="Forgot to include the political function of national myths, so I added a brief section on that." CreationDate="2019-03-11T17:05:10.973" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11430" PostId="5523" Score="1" Text="What would be the link between the eye of Horus and the eye of Odin? That they're both eyes?" CreationDate="2019-03-13T10:03:28.540" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11431" PostId="5523" Score="1" Text="Both of them are said to have the sun and moon as their eyes. Both lost the eyes in some moment (the moon eye of Horus for example)." CreationDate="2019-03-13T19:56:02.800" UserId="1315" />
  <row Id="11432" PostId="5523" Score="1" Text="are you able to incorporate that into your answer?" CreationDate="2019-03-13T21:58:39.077" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11489" PostId="5524" Score="0" Text="Isn't the existence of an afterlife the main selling point for a religion?" CreationDate="2019-04-16T11:41:09.887" UserId="3230" />
  <row Id="11525" PostId="5524" Score="0" Text="Another way of couching Girsan's observation is that funerary rites are one of the things that distinguish the earliest humans from animals, and one of the principle concerns of religion is the inevitability of death, and how we respond to that knowledge." CreationDate="2019-04-26T21:18:22.250" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11433" PostId="5526" Score="1" Text="Hi and welcome to the site! Can you add any source material to back this up?" CreationDate="2019-03-16T16:10:39.947" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14253" PostId="5526" Score="0" Text="I didn't write this answer, but the source for this info is the Homeric Hymn to Demeter. It specifically mentions that Hades wanted a wife and Zeus suggested Persephone, and then told Hades he'd need to kidnap her to get her away from Demeter. I wouldn't characterize Hades as &quot;desperate,&quot; but otherwise it's accurate." CreationDate="2021-02-25T05:33:31.257" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="11504" PostId="5529" Score="3" Text="If you are going to attempt to alter my view on the situation, you might want to try proving your claims. As it is, you are just yelling at me without evidence to back your words. Paragraphs and sources please, so I can read the, &quot;original,&quot; myth of Minthe. Let you show me the, &quot;original,&quot; myth of Adonis where Persephone was, &quot;shoehorned,&quot; into later on. Make the distinction between Ovid and the Greek authors. But, while Persephone was apart of the Elysian Mysteries, the cult belonged to Demeter." CreationDate="2019-04-18T21:03:17.830" UserId="4271" />
  <row Id="11853" PostId="5535" Score="1" Text="According to https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SelfDuplication, &quot;Pan, from Greek mythology, had the ability to split into multiple &quot;Panes&quot;, each with its own name. Three of them, Agreos, Nominos and Aegipan, are described as having their own unique appearances, personalities and abilities.&quot;  I've had trouble finding additional reference for this ability, but this is the only answer I've been able to find." CreationDate="2019-08-21T22:37:47.890" UserId="6296" />
  <row Id="11440" PostId="5538" Score="1" Text="Hello and welcome! Can you specify what you have read about the &quot;wood people&quot;? The more thorough the question the better we can help you. I already took the liberty of editing tags and links, if this is not ok feel free to change it back." CreationDate="2019-03-20T22:45:16.193" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11441" PostId="5538" Score="1" Text="@Tom Certainly, I haven't been able to get much info on the wood people, but apparently the gods Kukulkan and Tepeu first tried to form people out of mud, but this disintegrated, then wood, but the people had no souls and lost loyalty to the gods, then finally out of maize, which worked." CreationDate="2019-03-21T04:31:32.873" UserId="5906" />
  <row Id="11475" PostId="5539" Score="3" Text="According to one interpretation of Genesis 4:15, Cain's &quot;mark&quot; was a tattoo." CreationDate="2019-04-07T02:52:24.357" UserId="5949" />
  <row Id="11810" PostId="5539" Score="2" Text="Would Maori [Ta Moko](http://www.zealandtattoo.co.nz/tattoo-styles/maori-tattoo/) suit you? They have the legend of Mataora that suggest that the tattoos are  a way to show love, particularly, the first Ta Moko tattoo were made by/on Mataora  to show his love to the princess of the underworld, called Niwareka. Which we could consider as a divinity. Also, those tattoos are considered as sacred. You can also tatto your spiritual guardian, the Manaia.&#xA;I'll make an answer if you feel it's close enough to the subject" CreationDate="2019-08-07T11:48:43.220" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11811" PostId="5539" Score="0" Text="@Calaom this is definitely acceptable." CreationDate="2019-08-07T12:57:24.640" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11903" PostId="5539" Score="0" Text="No doubt, among other reasons, people got/get tattoos to worship/invoke their god(s). But what god(s) would he/she/they be? Had a friend years ago who got tattoos because they were cathartic - the pain and bloodletting made him feel better. He would use money to have a tattoo when gas and food were a problem to secure. Here's a site that details many reasons. If you can see past the strong Christian bias, there's interesting info: http://www.av1611.org/tattoos/pagan.html" CreationDate="2019-09-11T04:11:26.897" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="11457" PostId="5549" Score="3" Text="The book Scatalogic Rites of All Nations by [Captain John G. Bourke](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gregory_Bourke) may be of interest." CreationDate="2019-03-26T09:30:47.117" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11459" PostId="5551" Score="1" Text="According to this similar story (frog/excrement), the indecency is incest. The pdf is searchable.  https://ia801702.us.archive.org/35/items/jstor-534581/534581.pdf" CreationDate="2019-03-28T20:38:10.797" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="11458" PostId="5552" Score="0" Text="Interesting question! I'm not aware of any examples from folklore, but Vampires taking advantage of the long polar night is the premise of the comic book series [30 Days of Night](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30_Days_of_Night) (adapted into a film [of the same name](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30_Days_of_Night_(film)))." CreationDate="2019-03-28T08:35:46.457" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11465" PostId="5556" Score="2" Text="Are you looking for a natural flood in the geological record that may have inspired this story?  Or another, etiological, myth?" CreationDate="2019-03-31T15:30:01.717" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11477" PostId="5556" Score="0" Text="Another myth @Spencer." CreationDate="2019-04-14T11:17:44.590" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11463" PostId="5557" Score="0" Text="This is an interesting one! I can vaguely recall such a story but cannot place it myself, will do some research until my mind stops being clogged." CreationDate="2019-03-29T13:07:05.617" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11466" PostId="5557" Score="0" Text="Indiana Jones.." CreationDate="2019-04-03T12:53:11.377" UserId="5247" />
  <row Id="11468" PostId="5562" Score="0" Text="Excellent answer. Did Empedocles himself use these symbols for the modalities? I'm not clear whether the &quot;this&quot; in your second paragraph refers to his work or to work based on it. He has the triplet {causation, perception, thought}, which perhaps he put into correspondence with {cardinal, fixed, mutable}? On the elements, I am not sure how far back the correspondence {lion, ox, man, eagle} ~ {fire, earth, air, water} goes." CreationDate="2019-04-04T10:44:34.340" UserDisplayName="user4244" />
  <row Id="11471" PostId="5562" Score="0" Text="It's impossible to say - surviving accounts of Greek philosophy and theorems came to us indirectly (mostly from Arabic sources). AFAIK there is no surviving work where Empedocles himself used these symbols." CreationDate="2019-04-08T11:04:20.383" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11469" PostId="5564" Score="1" Text="Could you elaborate what is being said on this site?" CreationDate="2019-04-04T16:48:51.137" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11472" PostId="5565" Score="0" Text="Can you include a link in your question to the Vietnamese articles?" CreationDate="2019-04-08T18:02:53.620" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11952" PostId="5566" Score="0" Text="The symbolism is solar, since Zeus is a celestial (uranic) deity." CreationDate="2019-09-27T13:56:07.233" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="11470" PostId="5567" Score="1" Text="Thanks, Yannis. The semen symbolism works just as well with pieces of gold coming down like rain vs. golden rain, but the question of why gold(en) remains. Since it just came straight down into Danae's womb and she didn't have to think or act, I'm not sure that there is any actual seduction involved. Maybe since she was imprisoned in a bronze chamber (Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library) or a stone one (Pseudo-Hyginus), gold coming through the ceiling may signify a betterment of her situation and that of the Greeks.  Or might it point to Perseus, him coming from gold and it alluding to his future?" CreationDate="2019-04-07T02:14:49.507" UserId="467" />
  <row Id="11476" PostId="5567" Score="0" Text="@ArthurGeorge There probably are multiple layers to the story, but personally I can't see past that of a lord buying himself a young bride." CreationDate="2019-04-14T09:39:09.253" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="12027" PostId="5570" Score="1" Text="Possible duplicate of [Is Chronos Kronos?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2478/is-chronos-kronos)" CreationDate="2019-11-04T04:20:10.027" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="11479" PostId="5575" Score="0" Text="Can you specify what you are trying to ask? It is very unclear." CreationDate="2019-04-14T18:40:56.827" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11482" PostId="5575" Score="0" Text="Are there any caretakers of the forest or is it self reliant" CreationDate="2019-04-15T19:44:38.093" UserId="5958" />
  <row Id="11478" PostId="5579" Score="3" Text="I know the rooster on the other hand has been a sign of valor. And chickens have been appreciated for a long time. Interesting question!" CreationDate="2019-04-14T13:07:01.210" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11503" PostId="5579" Score="2" Text="[During Arthurian times](https://creative-analytics.corsairs.network/the-tale-of-brave-sir-robin-f76f561ce45c): 932 AD or thereabouts." CreationDate="2019-04-17T21:52:18.847" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11516" PostId="5579" Score="1" Text="@spencer Sir Robin from Monty python?" CreationDate="2019-04-24T05:23:55.387" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11490" PostId="5583" Score="1" Text="asking them for an email is not possible?" CreationDate="2019-04-16T20:06:03.000" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11491" PostId="5583" Score="2" Text="@Tom Possible, but not the most diplomatic approach perhaps. I wanted to do research on my own to be respectful and diligent." CreationDate="2019-04-17T01:35:46.920" UserId="5971" />
  <row Id="11492" PostId="5584" Score="2" Text="Most religions don't have a concept of a cycle of life.  They believe that life is everlasting and therefore linear.  Also, look at the &quot;start your own&quot; religions that were created in the 20th Century.  None of those, that I'm aware of, have any principles of a cycle of life." CreationDate="2019-04-17T17:53:31.373" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="11521" PostId="5594" Score="4" Text="This is discussed on Writing.SE - https://writing.stackexchange.com/q/42369/29719" CreationDate="2019-04-25T17:34:29.353" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="11534" PostId="5595" Score="1" Text="Duplicate question on Literature.SE: [Children raised out of human society - ancient stories](https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/9827)" CreationDate="2019-05-01T14:40:15.703" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11522" PostId="5596" Score="3" Text="Welcome to SE:Mythology.  Can I ask, is this something you've heard of, or something you are investigating the existence of of cannon literature or folklore?" CreationDate="2019-04-25T20:02:38.273" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11523" PostId="5596" Score="3" Text="Hi @DukeZhou, and thank you!  I'm investigating to see whether anything like this exists.  I did some searching, but my hoped-for &quot;schools in mythology&quot; results are muddied by &quot;teaching mythology in schools&quot; pages.  Any help would be much appreciated!" CreationDate="2019-04-26T04:43:22.953" UserId="6003" />
  <row Id="11524" PostId="5596" Score="2" Text="I can't think of anything off-hand, but you might look at the Chinese Taoist stuff involving the Jade Emperor.  (I don't recall any schools specifically, but the Chinese have a tradition of deification of scholars, so, if your intent is creative, that might be a place to extrapolate from.)" CreationDate="2019-04-26T16:48:42.007" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11526" PostId="5596" Score="2" Text="In Icelandic folklore, there is mention of *Svartskóli* (lit. Black school), a place where scholars would be instructed by the devil. Similar to the Transylvanian legend of the [Scholomance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholomance)" CreationDate="2019-04-27T10:08:16.890" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11527" PostId="5597" Score="2" Text="Whenever someone asks &quot;what was the first&quot;, Gilgamesh is always a good place to start looking. However, Enkidu was not so much raised from a child, as molded out of clay, fully-grown, by the goddess Aruru/Ninhursag." CreationDate="2019-04-27T14:30:17.843" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11542" PostId="5607" Score="3" Text="All of the philosophers in that paragraph are pre-Socratic (assuming Zeno is the Eleatic and not the Stoic), which would imply Diogenes of Apollonia. But since the next paragraph mixes Hellenistic authors with mythological characters, I'm not sure this is a conclusive answer" CreationDate="2019-05-02T11:33:04.890" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="11550" PostId="5607" Score="1" Text="@ba Thanks. Since identifying Zeno might help identifying Diogenes, I updated the question to also ask about Zeno." CreationDate="2019-05-04T14:09:07.607" UserId="3230" />
  <row Id="11559" PostId="5614" Score="1" Text="Some links to add later to the answer. [Sappho and Phaon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaon), [Admetus and Alcestis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admetus), [Protesilaus and Laodamia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laodamia_of_Phylace), [Daragang Magayon and Panganoron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daragang_Magayon), [Deirdre and Naoise](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deirdre), [Butterfly Lovers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_Lovers), [Lovers of Teruel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovers_of_Teruel)." CreationDate="2019-05-09T12:42:59.307" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="11557" PostId="5618" Score="2" Text="Hello Allen and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please a bit of your time to take the [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour).&#xA;Your answer seems to go in the right direction but it is looking like a simpler version of the good one offered by @obie-2-0.. I would suggest you to add some more details as why you think it is not true (no one can know for sure all the Greek folklore by heart as some/lots of it has been lost). But asking the author of the assertion would be a good start!" CreationDate="2019-05-08T11:44:52.710" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11558" PostId="5621" Score="0" Text="Hello @Za.. and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please a bit of your time to take the [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). Thanks for your contribution, but it seems that you are not actually answering the question that is the symbolism behind the box. Your answer is more about who's fault lead to the opening. Also here we like to get sources for any answer you might be able to produce, so that we can get your way of thinking and the places where your ideas come from.&#xA;Hope that'll help you make better contribution from now on!" CreationDate="2019-05-09T08:05:35.250" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="16599" PostId="5624" Score="0" Text="Hera and Zeus are the Greek names. Juno and Jupiter are the Roman names." CreationDate="2024-01-24T13:18:45.273" UserId="10952" />
  <row Id="11560" PostId="5625" Score="0" Text="I'll look into the etymology of the names, but it likely has to do with multiple sources.  (Homer calls him Aegaeon, but the other sources call him Briareus .)" CreationDate="2019-05-09T19:09:25.140" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11939" PostId="5625" Score="0" Text="See *[Hecatoncheires: Names](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecatoncheires#Names)*." CreationDate="2019-09-27T10:07:56.110" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="11561" PostId="5626" Score="1" Text="I've added some detail to my answer, which I believe to be supportable based on the archaeological record.  However, Adrinka's answer directly references canon stating that Argus, founder of Argos was the first mortal child of Zeus, and for this reason, should probably be the accepted answer." CreationDate="2019-05-10T21:56:15.650" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13538" PostId="5629" Score="1" Text="Added references to antagonism against Perseus in the First Vatican Mythographer" CreationDate="2020-05-03T09:49:13.317" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11661" PostId="5633" Score="0" Text="I'd recommend looking at myths focusing on trickster figures in general - they're often read as being destabilizers, bringing justice and chaos into a previously ordered 'system'. Loki in particular springs to mind. Lokasenna may have something for you, in that it does very much bring to mind 'you think you're better than everyone else, but you are *not*'." CreationDate="2019-06-25T23:05:45.617" UserId="6167" />
  <row Id="11562" PostId="5635" Score="2" Text="Hi and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take a second to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). On this forum, we really like to add some context/sources to our answers/questions, even if the message you want to deliver seems easy and straightforward to you, it may not be to others.&#xA;And as per your answer you say the link between hermits and Hermes is clear but I'd rather see an opposition between wanderers and people looking for isolation from other humans" CreationDate="2019-05-13T07:25:56.183" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11563" PostId="5635" Score="2" Text="Please try to add sources sustaining your answer and a more sustainable explanation to your thinking. I'll be glad to help you if needed!" CreationDate="2019-05-13T07:28:47.523" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11564" PostId="5636" Score="3" Text="Expanded Answer to incorporate info from a few supplementary sources, mainly Ovid's _Metamorphoses_." CreationDate="2019-05-14T06:53:26.820" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11586" PostId="5636" Score="1" Text="Exemplary answer, thank you." CreationDate="2019-05-24T10:37:48.947" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11589" PostId="5636" Score="1" Text="You're most welcome" CreationDate="2019-05-25T00:40:20.367" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11565" PostId="5637" Score="1" Text="Hello and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour/). Looking at your question, it is indeed interesting but I think it is a bit too wide since you are basically asking about the whole mythology origins. I think you should better focus on an event or a unique character (as many of those events/characters might have many different origins)." CreationDate="2019-05-15T08:50:07.767" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11566" PostId="5637" Score="0" Text="I wanted to flag this question as overly-broad, but if someone is willing to create a community answer to be improved over-time, this could be a good addition to the site instead of hundreds of character/event focused questions." CreationDate="2019-05-15T08:52:59.470" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11567" PostId="5637" Score="0" Text="Also, I wanted to ask you if your question is focused on Perseus and Theseus since you tagged them to then widen the question to all the heroes." CreationDate="2019-05-15T08:56:41.420" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11571" PostId="5639" Score="0" Text="[Dio Chrysostom 10.23](http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Dio_Chrysostom/Discourses/10*.html) gives a few more examples of words that are different between gods and mortals (the footnotes give the sources from Homer), with a Cynic interpretation" CreationDate="2019-05-16T19:37:46.353" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="16543" PostId="5639" Score="0" Text="Interesting. I was unaware that there was critique or elaboration of points such as these in ancient texts." CreationDate="2023-11-20T01:56:29.083" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11568" PostId="5641" Score="3" Text="I know for a fact there is a sailors superstition that has to do with checking the quality of the wood, I will check this out when I get home today" CreationDate="2019-05-15T13:00:52.677" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11569" PostId="5641" Score="2" Text="Seaman/sailors in the 17th century would sometimes knock with their hands or tools on the wooden hull of their ship to listen for woodworm or rot, hearing a solid sound coming from wood in the hull would mean it was good to go(or ship shape)" CreationDate="2019-05-15T18:13:00.730" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11570" PostId="5641" Score="2" Text="I also found the claim (without a source) that miners would knock on the wood of the mine's stakes to check their quality." CreationDate="2019-05-16T16:11:27.363" UserId="955" />
  <row Id="11605" PostId="5641" Score="0" Text="@Arsak I have also heard about this, is it possible for you to find any sources and make it into an answer?" CreationDate="2019-05-29T10:39:32.377" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11572" PostId="5642" Score="0" Text="There are (at least) two books on this topic. The origin is unclear. [Summary of these theories](https://metro.co.uk/2016/01/12/why-do-we-touch-wood-to-avoid-bad-luck-5617570/)." CreationDate="2019-05-17T16:07:19.957" UserId="5967" />
  <row Id="11602" PostId="5642" Score="1" Text="Thank you, this is a very interesting answer." CreationDate="2019-05-29T09:28:47.417" UserId="6021" />
  <row Id="11606" PostId="5642" Score="0" Text="@Bloom no problem! I will expand this answer if I come across any more connections." CreationDate="2019-05-29T10:42:42.953" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11865" PostId="5642" Score="0" Text="@DenisdeBernardy Do you have any links to these two books? A Metro article is not a reputable source for me." CreationDate="2019-08-23T19:48:58.743" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11866" PostId="5642" Score="0" Text="@Tom: I unfortunately don't -- besides the obvious of course, namely googling their title/author and getting an Amazon link. If memory serves me well the link I posted was the better summary of their contents I found at the time." CreationDate="2019-08-23T20:00:06.713" UserId="5967" />
  <row Id="11577" PostId="5649" Score="2" Text="Hi and welcome on M&amp;F since you have the other SE bonus, I don't think you need the [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). But as you said, your question might be a bit too broad and unspecific. First, I'd like to point out that I'm not really sure what you mean here by archetype. In my understanding it is someone that is a good symbol for many &quot;look-alike&quot; things (eg: Hitler is the archetype of the bad german guy, shouting, harsh, well dressed..)" CreationDate="2019-05-20T13:10:13.190" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11578" PostId="5649" Score="2" Text="So an archetype question in my understanding would be like: How Zeus incarnate the archetype of the all-powerful god (you need to be the archetype of something). Another pointer to understand religions would simply to talk with people who have those beliefs or study them. They are always eager to talk about the beliefs they follow/teach/learn about, eg: [Christianity SE](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/). Then you can find lots and lots of information on the internet like the Q&amp;A here or more specific websites like [Theoi](https://www.theoi.com/) for the Greek lore." CreationDate="2019-05-20T13:20:09.113" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11585" PostId="5649" Score="0" Text="Related: [How does one search for patterns/motifs in folklore or mythology?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/1262/how-does-one-search-for-patterns-motifs-in-folklore-or-mythology)" CreationDate="2019-05-24T10:18:51.843" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11576" PostId="5650" Score="2" Text="Hello and welcome to M&amp;F SE, not sure if you need the [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour) but here it is. As for my usual pointers, I will just say that it is sad you don't have any links to show (can we look up in the wiki history?) but I understand that it can be pretty hard in the case of not well documented material on Wikipedia. I will en by thanking you for an interesting question and that I hope we'll keep you on our beloved SE!" CreationDate="2019-05-20T13:02:46.393" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11582" PostId="5650" Score="1" Text="@ Calaom, thanks for the welcome! Still learning how everything works. Sorry about the lack of links, I edited to give as much information as I can." CreationDate="2019-05-23T00:33:28.230" UserId="6040" />
  <row Id="12425" PostId="5650" Score="0" Text="@MorgenAfallon Is there anything else you're looking for before accepting an answer?" CreationDate="2020-03-11T02:23:40.710" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="11581" PostId="5652" Score="0" Text="Hello and welcome to Mythology and Folklore! Please take a look at our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). This answer is written like a question of its own. If this was a comment please let us know so a moderator can place this in the comment section." CreationDate="2019-05-21T16:28:45.680" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11951" PostId="5653" Score="0" Text="The reason there are two of them is because, in Judaeo-Christian tradition, a truth can only be established by a *plurality* of witnesses (Deuteronomy 17:6, 19:15; Matthew 18:16; 2 Corinthians 13:1; 1 Timothy 5:19; Hebrews 10:28)." CreationDate="2019-09-27T13:47:00.990" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="11950" PostId="5658" Score="0" Text="See [*Ancient of Days*](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_of_Days)." CreationDate="2019-09-27T13:42:54.387" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="11660" PostId="5659" Score="0" Text="I'd agree that they are all part of the 'strong/fearless girl' stripe, but I don't know that I'd consider Pippi to be quite the same. From what I remember it was very much a kids book/show, and Pippi was primarily an agent of chaos, more of a trickster figure than anything else, her strength was mostly secondary. I don't know much about Hanna or Lisbeth but I believe they're more vengeance-oriented? It is very interesting to realize they're all Nordic though." CreationDate="2019-06-25T23:02:27.053" UserId="6167" />
  <row Id="11587" PostId="5662" Score="1" Text="Hi, I see that you are new here. Could you expand the question a bit so people, who can help you, know where and what to look for? - What myth are you reffering to? (Thor's Stolen Hammer) &#xA;I recommend that you read this: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-ask&#xA;to know how you can improve your question.&#xA;&#xA;; I would guess that since Loki went to the land of giants a form of a bird or a fly would not survive, however I am not knowledgeable in Norse mythology, so I will have to wait for a good answer with you :)" CreationDate="2019-05-24T10:58:48.793" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="11595" PostId="5662" Score="0" Text="I am not sure , but I think and know for a fact that Norse gods are very inconsistent and you can see this in many other myths and stories ." CreationDate="2019-05-25T16:58:26.637" UserId="6070" />
  <row Id="11949" PostId="5663" Score="0" Text="See [Ogdoad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogdoad)." CreationDate="2019-09-27T13:41:28.157" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="11596" PostId="5671" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). Unfortunately, your answer seems more like a feeling than an actual answer. As @Rodia answered, we expect answer to be quoting some work or texts to support the claims pointed. We expect as well a detailed reasoning. I don't want to scare you away from this SE but please keep those points in mind next time you want to participate here!" CreationDate="2019-05-27T09:16:31.467" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11597" PostId="5675" Score="0" Text="Hi, this is a great answer but I feel like it could be improved, would you please mind adding some links to this story? And also I would love to see the steps of the mono-myth next to the steps of the story to support your claim." CreationDate="2019-05-27T09:21:01.477" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11590" PostId="5677" Score="0" Text="Amazing ! Thanks !!! Any others u could name that I can look into myself ?" CreationDate="2019-05-26T02:18:22.270" UserId="5431" />
  <row Id="11591" PostId="5677" Score="1" Text="@Johan88 I'm afraid Erictho is the main one who comes to mind, but I'll search around a bit and see what I can find. (She's one of the more famous mortal characters from Roman myth: according to Lucan, she was waiting for the end of the war, intending to raise all the dead from both sides and make a zombie army to take over Rome. Sadly, Lucan didn't finish his epic, so we don't find out if she succeeded or not. Since no historical documents from the time mention the zombie army, I'm guessing she didn't. But she also appears in Ovid, Dante, and Goethe, among others.)" CreationDate="2019-05-26T02:21:46.140" UserId="4022" />
  <row Id="11592" PostId="5677" Score="0" Text="Omg. Amazing ! Thanks ! Didn't know the Ancients had the whole zombie takeover theme. Thought it was just Hollywood." CreationDate="2019-05-26T02:23:38.460" UserId="5431" />
  <row Id="11593" PostId="5677" Score="1" Text="@Johan88 I was surprised too, but it seems it wasn't a prevalent theme, just something Lucan made up. I suppose corpses rising up is sort of a universal fear." CreationDate="2019-05-26T02:25:01.540" UserId="4022" />
  <row Id="11948" PostId="5686" Score="0" Text="The [Cherubim](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherub) from the [Book of Ezekiel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Ezekiel) are described in a similar fashion." CreationDate="2019-09-27T13:39:12.817" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="11599" PostId="5688" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to make the [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). Your answer is interesting but would be way better if you added some links to sources to support your claims. As well, some quotes from the texts where Herodotus gave those informations would add some more content to work from" CreationDate="2019-05-28T08:43:40.910" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11600" PostId="5692" Score="1" Text="I'm 100% with you on the reliability of the author. I've found literally hundreds of references to the book online, with little to no challenge on its contents. That's the main reason I'm posting questions about it." CreationDate="2019-05-28T14:46:31.913" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11759" PostId="5692" Score="0" Text="The recent retellings about Thulis seem to come from  Pierre  Marie Stanislas Guérin du Rocher's &quot;*Histoire véritable des temps fabuleux)*&quot;, published 1776-7 which became a widely read, commented and translated book (see eg Ignaz Goldziher&#xA;*Mythology Among the Hebrews and Its Historical Development* / googlebooks, intro). There are some 3 pages on Thulis with ref to Suidas." CreationDate="2019-07-26T22:34:52.207" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="11601" PostId="5693" Score="2" Text="Please post the relevant information from that link here.  Answers consisting only of links are not very helpful and are likely to be deleted." CreationDate="2019-05-28T16:03:41.933" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="12000" PostId="5694" Score="0" Text="This is an interesting question, but you might get better results on SE:Literature in regard to plot structure and Chaucer, who is traditionally in the domain of English Lit as opposed to mythology." CreationDate="2019-10-17T19:41:29.917" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11611" PostId="5695" Score="2" Text="Latin available on Perseus: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3atext%3a2008.01.0547" CreationDate="2019-05-29T20:24:37.230" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11603" PostId="5697" Score="1" Text="Thank you, this is a very interesting answer." CreationDate="2019-05-29T09:29:07.727" UserId="6021" />
  <row Id="11604" PostId="5697" Score="1" Text="You are welcome @Bloom. There's no need to rush to mark it as accepted thought. You might want to wait a while to see if other answers appear." CreationDate="2019-05-29T09:30:57.473" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11615" PostId="5700" Score="0" Text="I look forward to seeing more details when you have time. What made Enkidu freeze with fear?" CreationDate="2019-05-31T12:23:34.317" UserId="6086" />
  <row Id="11616" PostId="5700" Score="0" Text="@NepeneNep As I recall, it was the roar of the monster!" CreationDate="2019-05-31T17:04:44.307" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11613" PostId="5702" Score="1" Text="Great example with Hector!  *(I'm embarrassed I didn't recall that one;)*" CreationDate="2019-05-30T17:40:02.277" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11614" PostId="5702" Score="1" Text="Those are fine examples, and I will look up Theoi. The Typhon example fits my needs very well, thank you." CreationDate="2019-05-31T03:07:22.200" UserId="6086" />
  <row Id="11947" PostId="5704" Score="0" Text="It's most likely the reference to [Krittika](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krittika), the first [lunar mansion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakshatra) of [Hindu astrology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_astrology), mentioned on [page 756](http://www.archive.org/details/anacalypsisattem01higg/page/756) of the [Anacalypsis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacalypsis)." CreationDate="2019-09-27T13:28:24.637" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="13685" PostId="5704" Score="1" Text="Nearest thing I could find in the book was the following: &quot;If my reader reader look back to Book IX. Chap. X., he will find a prophecy by Apollo, of Miletus, of a divine incarnation crucified by Chaldean judges. There were the Chaldaeans of Colida…It was the crucifixion of Crisen and Salivahana and St. Thomas, of the Christians of Crisen.&quot; pg. 810. And on pg. 584, a description of the crucifixion.The description of &quot;Crite&quot; from Graves is on pg. 261, Indians saying: &quot;When will it be that the Saviour will be born! When will it be that the Redeemer will appear!&quot;" CreationDate="2020-07-20T21:43:55.203" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="11765" PostId="5709" Score="0" Text="sorry isn't Menelaus Helens husband?" CreationDate="2019-07-30T23:56:25.427" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11767" PostId="5709" Score="1" Text="Uhh... Yes... Why do you ask?" CreationDate="2019-07-31T09:37:33.107" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11772" PostId="5709" Score="0" Text="The trick was so convincing that both Menelaus ..   were ready to answer within, and leap out&#xA;Menelaus saw/heard Helen so he was ready to leap out whats the trick???" CreationDate="2019-07-31T16:40:57.097" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11775" PostId="5709" Score="1" Text="Helen used her voice to pretend that she was the wives of the men hidden inside the wooden horse. Obviously in the case of Menelaus she didn't need to pretend, since she really _was_ Helen." CreationDate="2019-07-31T20:05:13.407" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="16515" PostId="5709" Score="0" Text="Helen is technically a demi-goddess" CreationDate="2023-10-21T22:22:14.747" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="11622" PostId="5710" Score="1" Text="In the 1st version of this Answer I had only some vague notions ref. Paris's age but, w/ additional info from Diodorus Siculus' _Bibliotheka Historika_ &amp; Apollodorus' _Epitome_, there's been quite a puzzle-piece shuffle to arrive at the current, more concrete version." CreationDate="2019-06-03T21:19:12.207" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11634" PostId="5710" Score="0" Text="So actually... never mind all of that! Eventually the house of cards I was building with all that information came tumbling down based on a few tiny little anachronisms in the chronology. But I was happy to let it go since it was also leading into a forest of irrelevant tangents &amp; redundancies which I've sheared away from a now much leaner &amp; hopefully neater, tidier rendition of my Answer, getting more directly to the point! (All the thinking aloud that I did in the previous Edits has indeed helped me to arrive at _this_ conclusion, though, whatever that's worth.)" CreationDate="2019-06-06T17:19:55.537" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11635" PostId="5710" Score="0" Text="Before my approach was to attempt figuring out Paris's age based on Akhilleus's and Hermione's childhood years (with additional specifics for these found in Apollodorus' _Bibliotheka_, combined with the info from the _Epitome_ &amp; Diodorus Siculus); the current version is based, instead, on Paris's son. The net result is, incidentally, pretty much the same, but taking a much less convoluted path to get there." CreationDate="2019-06-06T17:27:34.647" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11623" PostId="5711" Score="2" Text="I think you should ask this on the [Hinduism site](https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/). The Mythology site is not about religion." CreationDate="2019-06-04T10:22:46.453" UserId="3230" />
  <row Id="11946" PostId="5711" Score="0" Text="You can read this answer&#xA;&#xA;https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/36222/661" CreationDate="2019-09-27T13:09:38.080" UserId="5573" />
  <row Id="11626" PostId="5715" Score="0" Text="Hello and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). Your answer seems to have a lot of sources, but yet none of them are linked, please add links to sustain your allegations. Also the exact question that was asked here is &quot;Why did Kilydd hide his son from her?&quot; and you don't seem to answer this particular question even though you provide a lot of context. Please keep those details in mind whenever you answer a question!" CreationDate="2019-06-05T08:13:26.537" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11627" PostId="5716" Score="3" Text="Hi and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to take the [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). Your question is interesting, do you remember anything other from what you talked about with the storyteller? That could help us looking in the direction of the good mythology or folklore at least." CreationDate="2019-06-05T13:07:14.183" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11628" PostId="5716" Score="3" Text="Are you also sure about the cloak, I mean could it have been any other kind of item (I remember Hades cap of invisibility?)" CreationDate="2019-06-05T13:10:19.337" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11629" PostId="5717" Score="3" Text="Searching for hades also brings great results in the older texts of the bible, but I could not find anything related either." CreationDate="2019-06-05T15:42:01.047" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11630" PostId="5717" Score="1" Text="The only thing we actually have ruling hell here seems to be this angel, Abbadon" CreationDate="2019-06-06T09:43:05.483" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11631" PostId="5717" Score="1" Text="And since the question is flagged as Christianity, we need to find the first text post-bible telling Satan is the ruler of hell" CreationDate="2019-06-06T09:44:18.820" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11633" PostId="5717" Score="1" Text="Searching the acts of Thomas might have some info but I do not have the time so I'm just putting it out there" CreationDate="2019-06-06T10:31:45.173" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="16045" PostId="5718" Score="1" Text="This story is incorporated in the movie &lt;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_the_Viking&gt; for comedic effect. The invisible cloak only works on people who are dumb." CreationDate="2022-07-24T14:45:17.480" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="11638" PostId="5720" Score="1" Text="Your source is Ahmadiyya. They are not considered muslims, neither through the sunnah nor through the Amman Message. There's no indication that any of it is symbolic, mainstream scholars such as An-Nawawi took it literally(see Sharh al-Nawawi li Saheeh Muslim)." CreationDate="2019-06-13T22:44:09.537" UserId="6134" />
  <row Id="11710" PostId="5720" Score="4" Text="Analysis of myth, and religious literature in the context of myth, involves symbolism.  Good answer." CreationDate="2019-07-12T21:39:39.727" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11755" PostId="5726" Score="0" Text="The variability/plasticity of myth is presupposed in my question, where I talk of the myths' etiological *potential.*" CreationDate="2019-07-25T21:31:46.097" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="11757" PostId="5726" Score="0" Text="@BrianDonovan By alluding to some sort of &quot;missed potential&quot;, you're still gauging stories by your expectation of consistency." CreationDate="2019-07-25T22:18:59.620" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11674" PostId="5728" Score="1" Text="The only thing that comes to mind is the Moonrat in my Dungeons and Dragons Monster Manual. They use the power of the moon to become intelligent armies. I've always seen Dungeons and Dragons as legends and folklore in disguise." CreationDate="2019-06-30T14:42:39.890" UserId="6189" />
  <row Id="11679" PostId="5728" Score="1" Text="The only rat in folklore that I know of is the [Rat king](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_king). It is not related to your ghost rat but can also fuel some nightmares." CreationDate="2019-07-01T20:14:36.563" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="14178" PostId="5728" Score="0" Text="This doesn't answer your question but I had a dream about ghost rats.  They weren't hostile and glowed with a faint green.  When I woke up I realized my brain had borrowed them from a family of glow-in-the-dark, plastic rats I have." CreationDate="2021-02-03T20:24:59.993" UserId="7688" />
  <row Id="11647" PostId="5736" Score="1" Text="Hmm, these descriptions doesn't really strike me as being inconsistent per se. Are you looking for examples of someone dreaming too big, or is this a specific story you're trying to identify?" CreationDate="2019-06-19T13:08:14.120" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="11650" PostId="5738" Score="3" Text="Can you please clarify what you mean by &quot;besides the initial moment of the beginning&quot;? There are several references to Chaos in Greek mythology, but I'm not entirely sure any of them is what you are looking for. You may find most of these references on theoi.com: https://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Khaos.html" CreationDate="2019-06-20T10:02:35.883" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11848" PostId="5743" Score="0" Text="There is also Penny from Pee Wee's Playhouse. Proof: https://youtu.be/gQx9y6zx_to?t=3" CreationDate="2019-08-20T03:35:43.390" UserId="6155" />
  <row Id="11653" PostId="5744" Score="0" Text="I like especially the Mjolnir angle. Thanks. :)" CreationDate="2019-06-24T13:43:50.887" UserId="6053" />
  <row Id="12301" PostId="5745" Score="1" Text="What are you looking for specifically? If you have finer criteria (what you might use this information for, whether it be a fictional work, game, or personal knowledge) I might be able to help you more." CreationDate="2020-01-27T13:10:43.980" UserId="6161" />
  <row Id="13653" PostId="5745" Score="0" Text="I asked the question probably because I was just curious (if I remember well). And no, I don't need to use this info for any fictional work or game." CreationDate="2020-07-07T23:37:07.500" UserDisplayName="user5459" />
  <row Id="11656" PostId="5750" Score="4" Text="Hi again @fifthviolet, here you bring something of your own that is not yet in another answer: the fact that people want to &quot;hide their conversation behing that knocking sound&quot;, this is exactly what we look for here!&#xA;If you have a link to your professor's work on that subject or the origins to that explanation, that would be perfect! (you can start with a link to your cultures spirits being in the wood for example). Have my upvote!" CreationDate="2019-06-26T07:48:29.110" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11662" PostId="5753" Score="2" Text="I'm not sure your source is conclusive: from that same page, I can find evidence to the contrary (emphasis mine): &quot;All who looked at ***them*** were turned to stone.&quot; and &quot;Have you seen the eye of ***Sthenno*** which turns all to stone&quot;, although all other mentioning of being turned to stone is specific to Medusa..." CreationDate="2019-06-28T12:01:10.247" UserId="6175" />
  <row Id="11663" PostId="5753" Score="0" Text="@NathanS the sources themselves are not conclusive because the myth(s) changed. The original story was &quot;One monster named Gorgo, no N, singular.&quot; Then it was &quot;All three Gorgons are monsters, but nobody turned to stone.&quot; Then it became &quot;two monsters and one pretty mortal who was later cursed to turn people to stone.&quot;" CreationDate="2019-06-28T16:58:37.240" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11665" PostId="5753" Score="1" Text="I can't seem to find anything about petrification in the *Theogony*, just that Medūsa was the only mortal one." CreationDate="2019-06-29T03:10:51.457" UserId="4022" />
  <row Id="11666" PostId="5753" Score="0" Text="It's worth point out that Ovid had something of an anti-authoritarian grudge thanks to his treatment by the Roman Emperor, and his take on the Gorgon myth may be a reflection of that." CreationDate="2019-06-29T11:43:43.420" UserId="6182" />
  <row Id="11667" PostId="5753" Score="1" Text="I suggested an edit to the &quot;rape&quot; part, since the provided sources do not mention anything like that and thus do not support that interpretation." CreationDate="2019-06-29T13:47:47.957" UserId="6183" />
  <row Id="11742" PostId="5754" Score="1" Text="Other invulnerable beings in Mythology that I've found: [Caeneus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caeneus), [Esfandiyār](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esfandiy%C4%81r) and [Baldr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldr)." CreationDate="2019-07-20T21:11:21.817" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="11668" PostId="5755" Score="2" Text="Great Answer! The Apollodorus reference you're looking for is _Bibliotheca_ 2.4.2." CreationDate="2019-06-29T21:48:07.220" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11670" PostId="5763" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to take our [Tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). Interesting question! But I still wonder how it would look like being visited by a pole" CreationDate="2019-07-01T07:45:43.620" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11671" PostId="5763" Score="1" Text="I was careful to keep it a family show." CreationDate="2019-07-01T07:47:28.217" UserId="6189" />
  <row Id="11672" PostId="5765" Score="1" Text="would you happen to have any link to the story of the rabbit living on the moon?&#xA;We need some sources to be able to accept an answer as existing in the folklore.&#xA;&#xA;Also I don't see how a saint who never died is in any way extraterrestrial: Extraterrestrial life refers to life occurring outside of Earth which did not originate on Earth.&#xA;&#xA;In this case, your saint originates from earth, so not really extraterrestrial" CreationDate="2019-07-01T07:51:33.633" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11673" PostId="5765" Score="0" Text="Also, in the original question was asked about a travel, which I don't see for the rabbit.&#xA;And heaven doesn't really count as another world" CreationDate="2019-07-01T07:53:44.587" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11677" PostId="5765" Score="0" Text="en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_rabbit The rabbit is actually taken to the moon due to his virtue. There are other similar myths from other places. As for saint Elijah, well heaven is a completely different realm. It's not another planet, but it's completely outside of earth, which is what extraterrestrial means. And the question was about extraterrestrial travel." CreationDate="2019-07-01T15:04:19.627" UserId="5047" />
  <row Id="11678" PostId="5765" Score="0" Text="You're right and as @user14172 pointed out in his answer, we should close this question as too broad for a lot of myth will comply with the small requirements" CreationDate="2019-07-01T17:55:22.183" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11675" PostId="5767" Score="4" Text="I'd say Scientology definitely has." CreationDate="2019-07-01T14:09:49.243" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11681" PostId="5767" Score="1" Text="I mean, just look at DnD, Lovecraft or GoT, you don't even need a cult to create a myth" CreationDate="2019-07-02T12:59:00.683" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11743" PostId="5767" Score="0" Text="@LaurenIpsum Scientology dates back to the 1950's though. The OP seems to be asking about post-Internet belief systems." CreationDate="2019-07-21T02:13:10.773" UserId="4668" />
  <row Id="15770" PostId="5770" Score="2" Text="Do you have any source to back up your claims? I am referring in particular to Snorri &quot;demonizing Loki&quot;, &quot;Heimdall becoming a Christ-like figure after Ragnarok&quot;, and Iceland having &quot;a lot more integration with Christianity than a lot of other Scandinavian countries&quot;. Also, it's not true that the Ragnarok myth is not recorded elsewere, as it appears in several poems from the Poetic Edda (as well as in the archaeological record). And why would &quot;a man and a woman repopulating the world after the end of the world&quot; be a Christian motif?" CreationDate="2021-12-17T16:39:12.477" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="11686" PostId="5774" Score="0" Text="In the original greek! You are the best!" CreationDate="2019-07-03T21:01:59.567" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="11691" PostId="5776" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). Interesting question but it misses one factor to me, how do you rank or choose the answer that suits you the most. Because I think there is a lot of answers that might fit here." CreationDate="2019-07-08T07:07:41.150" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11760" PostId="5776" Score="0" Text="nagas are water serpents or water dragons. they guard treasures deep under the ganges" CreationDate="2019-07-16T19:07:42.173" UserId="6220" />
  <row Id="11697" PostId="5777" Score="2" Text="I don't think Golem can be considered guardians [of something secret]. And the Minotaur was imprisoned in the labyrinth, it wasn't guarding it." CreationDate="2019-07-08T11:20:47.950" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11701" PostId="5779" Score="1" Text="Hi and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). Nice answer, I made an edit, please check the link I added and it would be nice if you could add one for the surat or the reasons why it was made" CreationDate="2019-07-11T07:43:49.027" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11709" PostId="5779" Score="0" Text="Good answer, but we do need a link to a reliable reference to upvote." CreationDate="2019-07-12T21:37:37.280" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11802" PostId="5779" Score="1" Text="https://www.learnreligions.com/angel-jibreel-gabriel-in-islam-2004031" CreationDate="2019-08-05T01:10:54.403" UserId="6203" />
  <row Id="11700" PostId="5781" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). Interesting question, but it may just need some details on how you want to choose the answer between the many that may arise." CreationDate="2019-07-11T07:30:34.183" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11703" PostId="5783" Score="0" Text="Hi, nice answer, could you space it up a bit and add some link to sustain the informations you gave?" CreationDate="2019-07-11T13:28:19.423" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11704" PostId="5783" Score="0" Text="Sure! No problem!" CreationDate="2019-07-12T00:06:23.813" UserId="6161" />
  <row Id="11706" PostId="5783" Score="1" Text="Nice answer.  You may find this post interesting: [What is the meaning of Hercules' self-immolation?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2447/what-is-the-meaning-of-hercules-self-immolation).  I'd say it was *definitely* Heracles' power than led to his immortality--[he'd already defeated Death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcestis) and so could not die!  Once they separated the mortal part from the divine, his body could finally expire." CreationDate="2019-07-12T21:26:19.710" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11707" PostId="5783" Score="1" Text="*PS- feel free to integrate the note on the Alcestis into your answer!  I replaced your reference link with the wiki, which is more accurate and non-commercial.  All of the basic info is correct and consistent.*" CreationDate="2019-07-12T21:29:41.567" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11708" PostId="5784" Score="1" Text="I'm not really sure who the big contemporary names in comparative are.  One comment though, although the scientific method of Frazer is long outdated, the poetic truth of his hypothesis has been so profoundly influential in terms of 20th century literature, it's formed almost a new modern mythology. Influences include TS Eliot and Neil Gaiman." CreationDate="2019-07-12T21:34:10.267" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11717" PostId="5790" Score="1" Text="Both nekyia and katabasis refer to mortal people, not gods." CreationDate="2019-07-13T15:03:14.063" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11720" PostId="5790" Score="1" Text="Could you flesh out this answer a little?  You *believe* she goes to the underworld - why? voluntarily?  Then is *released*, again why? by whom?  That would make a much better answer." CreationDate="2019-07-13T17:18:10.967" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="11728" PostId="5803" Score="1" Text="HI and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). I already edited to change your tags but I am not sure what you mean. You tagged greek and since you speak about all the gods having wings, I wonder where you saw that all the Greek gods had wings, some uses them on one of their tools like Hermes but definitely most of them don't even show any." CreationDate="2019-07-17T07:48:42.667" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11731" PostId="5803" Score="0" Text="Yes thank you for the observation, in the case of Greeks I was referring to creatures like the Sphinx which I know is not strictly a god but a mythical creature anyway." CreationDate="2019-07-17T16:48:52.967" UserId="6219" />
  <row Id="11732" PostId="5803" Score="0" Text="Then, you should change your title to something like: Why mythical creature share attributes in different mythologies/cultures." CreationDate="2019-07-18T07:07:58.270" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11734" PostId="5803" Score="0" Text="You're right, I've changed it, thanks" CreationDate="2019-07-18T15:46:55.227" UserId="6219" />
  <row Id="11736" PostId="5806" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). Nice question, the only improvement I see, could be adding a link to the English term you found." CreationDate="2019-07-19T07:20:17.460" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11739" PostId="5806" Score="2" Text="In a way, this isn't answerable as asked, as there was no single &quot;Native American&quot; language or culture. It'd be a bit like asking the same question about Asians." CreationDate="2019-07-19T18:11:07.893" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="11741" PostId="5806" Score="0" Text="Any language where the concept exists is good enough for me, as I said in the question." CreationDate="2019-07-20T00:47:21.817" UserId="6226" />
  <row Id="11749" PostId="5806" Score="1" Text="There is an approximation of this concept [in Native American sign language](https://books.google.be/books?id=zqP3Q1IIoRUC&amp;pg=PA206&amp;lpg=PA206&amp;dq=%22happy+hunting+ground+%22+in+sioux+language&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=zq7q3cWTdd&amp;sig=ACfU3U3AXnRhmxwHXmRILSYFYu5iXoW6fA&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=2ahUKEwiW1bP5483jAhUOsaQKHSuRDFkQ6AEwCnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&amp;q=%22happy%20hunting%20ground%20%22%20in%20sioux%20language&amp;f=false)." CreationDate="2019-07-24T14:40:37.847" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11751" PostId="5806" Score="0" Text="@Codosaur: An interesting way of expressing it, fairly direct---and it says nothing about hunting, which alas reinforces what others are saying, that HHG is a white expression, not native." CreationDate="2019-07-25T06:34:41.513" UserId="6226" />
  <row Id="11737" PostId="5807" Score="1" Text="Hi again, I find your answer interesting but when I read your sources it looks more like the tulpas are created with a wish to do so. If I understood well, people could even train on how to create a tulpa? That's a nice new view!" CreationDate="2019-07-19T07:29:19.393" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11740" PostId="5807" Score="1" Text="AFAIU, the wish may be buried in the subconscious, and so the creation of a tulpa may be unintentional.  Alas, I could not substantiate that on the web, aside from the Wikipedia article on the tulpa linking to an article on a horror movie with the same title, where the tulpa arises by accident.  Note that the question does not require that; it is simply about belief making things real.  What my sources do make clear is that the creation of a tulpa, intentional or not, usually ends badly." CreationDate="2019-07-20T00:43:12.433" UserId="6226" />
  <row Id="11745" PostId="5807" Score="0" Text="Thanks, I just wanted to have a bit more on that point, your answer was already of good quality!" CreationDate="2019-07-22T06:51:16.483" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="16425" PostId="5807" Score="0" Text="Tulpas is close to what i was looking for, but the egregore is more on point to what i have in mind." CreationDate="2023-07-07T03:48:05.437" UserId="5723" />
  <row Id="11744" PostId="5813" Score="1" Text="Search for &quot;hunting ground&quot; in the Lakota dictionary: wanáǧi wičhóthi &quot;the afterlife, the place where the spirits of the dead live (so-called Happy Hunting Ground in English)&quot;" CreationDate="2019-07-21T14:42:17.790" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="11746" PostId="5813" Score="0" Text="I've always thought &quot;firewater&quot; and the like were translations into English not from spoken languages, but from the NA sign language.  That's because a lot of whites doing business with native people used the sign language to communicate." CreationDate="2019-07-22T07:14:57.880" UserId="6226" />
  <row Id="11752" PostId="5813" Score="1" Text="With help from uncle Google I've been able to translate wanáǧi wičhóthi as &quot;spirits' campground&quot;, or perhaps more correctly &quot;spirits' habitation&quot;.  Nothing about hunting, happy, eternal, or otherwise.  I'm beginning to be convinced that HHG is a fake term, and my search is in vain.  But &quot;spirit campground&quot; is cool; I'll use it in my campaign." CreationDate="2019-07-25T06:41:29.587" UserId="6226" />
  <row Id="11762" PostId="5813" Score="1" Text="@RalfB - As near as  I can tell, [PISL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plains_Indian_Sign_Language) was not used in the eastern half of the modern US (although it was used by the Lakota and Osage). That doesn't mean you are wrong, but it does mean any such joke/pun/insult would have been completely lost on indigenous peoples living east of  the Mississippi." CreationDate="2019-07-30T02:32:01.927" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="11753" PostId="5816" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). An answer to the title should be linked in this [question](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/913/why-do-sacrificial-victims-break-flutes-on-the-steps-of-a-temple-before-their-de). Maybe you should change to title to your ending question, aka: **Are there examples of foraging/hunter-gatherer societies that practice human sacrifice**" CreationDate="2019-07-25T07:55:23.650" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="12452" PostId="5818" Score="0" Text="4 Maccabees has 7 sons (and naturally the last one is the 7th), but not 7th son of a 7th son. I'm not sure how the speech is pertinent; all of the other sons from first to sixth also had a speech" CreationDate="2020-03-25T16:35:29.223" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="11758" PostId="5819" Score="0" Text="So it doesn't seem there's much evidence for human sacrifice in pre-settled societies? I'm still going through your links, but my hunch before asking this is that human sacrifice was an ideology that would develop around social hierarchies and not in small bands/tribes/communes as is often portrayed in media. Thank you" CreationDate="2019-07-26T16:55:22.783" UserId="6235" />
  <row Id="11764" PostId="5820" Score="0" Text="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5819978/" CreationDate="2019-07-30T20:05:58.787" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11763" PostId="5824" Score="2" Text="Interesting, but I don't know how relevant close analysis of these rennaisance artworks is, consider they were created well over a thousand years later." CreationDate="2019-07-30T18:33:41.120" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="11766" PostId="5824" Score="0" Text="Oh, and on the other hand, I feel like [Caravaggio's Medusa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa_(Caravaggio)) may be even more recognizable, and gives you more to go on for identifying a species." CreationDate="2019-07-31T03:12:01.840" UserId="42" />
  <row Id="11771" PostId="5830" Score="0" Text="Hi Agustin, welcome to the site. This answer could be improved with more references, in particular for the statement that there are no dates for it. Please note that we're a Q&amp;A site that focuses on delivering direct answers, rather than a discussion of a topic as in more traditional forum style sites." CreationDate="2019-07-31T15:16:12.830" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="11768" PostId="5831" Score="2" Text="Possibly because they're also gods? I *think* the Greeks treated their gods as unkillable, unlike the Norse." CreationDate="2019-07-31T09:58:20.053" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11769" PostId="5831" Score="0" Text="Another story says that Ares was captures by giants, and he was put into a jar. There he was left to wither. He didn't die, but the was broken. Couldn't Cronus do that?" CreationDate="2019-07-31T14:40:43.353" UserDisplayName="user6252" />
  <row Id="11770" PostId="5831" Score="3" Text="Probably &quot;evil contains the seeds of its own destruction.&quot; Remember, these stories were meant both to entertain and to teach — these aren't histories of real beings. Characters can do stupid things because the plot needs them to." CreationDate="2019-07-31T15:07:55.880" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11784" PostId="5831" Score="2" Text="@FuzzySquid If we go into &quot;couldn't Cronus do that&quot; territory, the most obvious question is: Couldn't Cronus avoid procreating in the first place?" CreationDate="2019-08-02T10:48:05.940" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11796" PostId="5831" Score="1" Text="@yannis: Perhaps he couldn't. Note the account of Cronus' emasculation of Uranus--the seed that fell on land and sea made them conceive and give birth to various divinities, Aphrodite among them.  If divine seed has such potency, I doubt that any prophylactic would have been effective. ;-)" CreationDate="2019-08-04T21:40:15.323" UserId="6226" />
  <row Id="11797" PostId="5831" Score="0" Text="@RalfB Touché..." CreationDate="2019-08-04T22:23:36.487" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11932" PostId="5831" Score="0" Text="See *[Cronus: Name and comparative mythology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronus#Name_and_comparative_mythology)*." CreationDate="2019-09-27T07:25:49.043" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="11776" PostId="5832" Score="0" Text="So, from a psychological point of view this means that, this is a natural human inclination that goes beyond culture?" CreationDate="2019-07-31T22:51:34.740" UserId="6219" />
  <row Id="11779" PostId="5832" Score="0" Text="@SantiTinjacáRivera, yes, that seems to be the case. For example, as to your question specifically about animal antropomorphication, this is even found in pre-settlement nomadic groups. Surviving remnants of this earliest form would be animal skins, feathers, skulls, horns and antlers worn by shamans and animists in all corners of the world to symbolize their connection with the spirit world." CreationDate="2019-08-01T05:15:10.997" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11920" PostId="5832" Score="0" Text="@Codosaur - Hello. What about the ancient idea about assuming animals as a force of nature and shaping that force in human characteristics  etc. ?" CreationDate="2019-09-19T18:18:44.457" UserId="6339" />
  <row Id="11780" PostId="5834" Score="1" Text="Not entirely sure what you are asking about? These are just stories. Everything you mention could have happened. The result would be... different stories." CreationDate="2019-08-02T01:56:13.500" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11783" PostId="5834" Score="0" Text="@yannis  there seems to be this theme in Greek Mythology that even if the characters made different choices that somehow their fates would still happen at least thats my understanding people talk about Oedipus unable to escape his fate rather than he wasn't gonna ... until he by chance blundered into it while trying to avoid it." CreationDate="2019-08-02T04:04:14.633" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11781" PostId="5835" Score="0" Text="When you read these it gives the idea that  no matter what you do and you are &quot;free&quot; in this manner and the characters are intelligent but regardless of what choices they make their fate is the same&#xA;I'm gonna ignore the whole &quot;free will is an illusion&quot; thing makes no sense really and I feel that isn't what the point of fate in the stories is anyways." CreationDate="2019-08-02T03:51:55.003" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11782" PostId="5835" Score="0" Text="What do you mean by doomed to enact   yes Oedipus by his nature and what he believed thinking of him as a automoton of flesh or of spirit his actions could be considered to be certain and the only thing he would do.   But that doesn't seem to be the point of the myths rather it is that what is fated to happen will happen regardless of what choice the characters make. &#xA;Is it just that they don't take the prophecy/gods seriously enough?" CreationDate="2019-08-02T04:03:49.253" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11786" PostId="5835" Score="1" Text="I think it's that what is fated will happen no matter what. Oedipus made choices to try and escape his fate (leaving his adoptive home), but it didn't do any good, because fate was inescapable." CreationDate="2019-08-03T03:21:48.893" UserId="6167" />
  <row Id="11787" PostId="5835" Score="0" Text="fifthviolet  but how can that work if for instance Oedipus just decides to not marry or kill anyone &#xA;or if Priam has just returned Helen and agreed to pay tribute to Sparta or just didn't make him ambasador etc" CreationDate="2019-08-03T04:53:58.000" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11788" PostId="5835" Score="2" Text="@HaoSun Then that would be a very different story. He had other options, but he made these choices, and has to deal with them. He thought he had escaped his fate by leaving home and removing himself from his parents since he didn't know he was adopted, and was therefore free to choose. By still marrying, he seals his fate, and that's where the story comes from. Not much of a story if it's just 'guy leaves home, defies prophecy, manages to live a nice, boring life'." CreationDate="2019-08-03T15:41:10.890" UserId="6167" />
  <row Id="11789" PostId="5835" Score="0" Text="Maybe I'm wrong about this, but ancient Greeks believed that though they had &quot;free will&quot; fate was something that was bound to happen regardless of the characters choices that is fate was inevitable for mortals though their responses are not fixed however clever they may be.  But surely some people must have questioned this belief just as I am doing right now?" CreationDate="2019-08-03T19:26:30.877" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11790" PostId="5835" Score="0" Text="Almost certainly some people questioned it. But those stories don't survive. What we are left is the majority." CreationDate="2019-08-04T01:42:24.490" UserId="6167" />
  <row Id="11791" PostId="5835" Score="0" Text="@haosun Ancient Greek philosophers certainly questioned the belief that we are all bound by faith. But this is a site about mythology, not philosophy. As fifthviolet already mentioned, when it comes to mythology only a few stories discussing the concept of fate survived, and that is all we have to work with." CreationDate="2019-08-04T12:59:11.803" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11792" PostId="5835" Score="0" Text="I guess most people just take the myths without question or something but I  feel it's such a glaring question to say you cannot escape something when there is an obvious way to escape it like if the gods say you will die at 25 sure no matter what happens the gods just throw a thunderbolt or disease or something. But if they say you will die at this remote location marry this person... it just seems really strange for anyone to seriously believe you couldn't just  refuse to get married at all ... etc" CreationDate="2019-08-04T16:15:34.740" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11794" PostId="5835" Score="0" Text="@HaoSun The belief that you cannot escape fate is hardly the most nonsensical religious belief... Doesn't even make the top ten, in my humble opinion." CreationDate="2019-08-04T21:06:53.620" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11798" PostId="5835" Score="0" Text="okay @yannis  what are your top ten?  in our age of science the idea that there were once 10 suns and 9 were shot down or the sun could stop in the sky or... are ridiculous &#xA;In an age without science it's much harder but you can still deduce for instance that a god cannot forge a spear that can pierce any shield  and make a shield that can turn away any spear or make a stone that was so heavy that he himself could not lift it   etc. &#xA;and certainly a god could decree a free being is fated die/injured at a specific time   or a city/civilization is fated to be destroyed  but some logical parad" CreationDate="2019-08-04T23:50:39.047" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11817" PostId="5836" Score="0" Text="Hello and welcome to M&amp;F SE. The question is about the origins of Kali, and you don't seem to try to answer it, seeing that you wrote only about the cows and the era." CreationDate="2019-08-09T07:41:10.610" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11819" PostId="5836" Score="0" Text="@Calaom, You forgot to read the first half part of the question. Although I don't have the answer for the second part but does that forbids me from answering the first part?" CreationDate="2019-08-09T10:27:09.527" UserId="6214" />
  <row Id="11821" PostId="5836" Score="0" Text="This question?:Who is KALI and from where he came from?&#xA;I don't see any answer to who he is or where does he come from?&#xA;Or please tell me what question you are referring to?&#xA;To me you seem to add a bit of lore around the question, but not answering it." CreationDate="2019-08-09T13:26:32.623" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11822" PostId="5836" Score="0" Text="Or maybe it is just that I am not really understanding what Kali is either ^^'" CreationDate="2019-08-09T13:36:22.020" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="11831" PostId="5836" Score="0" Text="@Calaom Kali is not a person rather it is a timeline. Also, it's origin is mentioned in Vedas but I wasn't able to find its origin." CreationDate="2019-08-12T06:15:36.980" UserId="6214" />
  <row Id="11804" PostId="5838" Score="2" Text="Good answer.  it's the &quot;eternal present&quot;.  Was reading Graves' *Homer's Daughter* this weekend, and he notes that we don't say &quot;Homer recorded&quot;, but &quot;Homer records&quot;." CreationDate="2019-08-05T21:25:36.747" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11793" PostId="5839" Score="3" Text="The duel was over the moment Paris fled. What's the point of calling for another duel between Paris and Menelaus if you know Paris will flee? And even if we assume the Greeks did call for a second duel, why would Paris even consider it?" CreationDate="2019-08-04T21:02:40.073" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11795" PostId="5839" Score="1" Text="Furthermore, even if the war may superficially seem like a quarell between Menelaus and Paris, it certainly isn't just that. The Greeks have raised a massive army, and travelled to the other side of their known world. They are absolutely not going to accept going home empty-handed. That is not how war works. The duel is just a gimmick, to create the illusion that they crossed the sea for honor, not for the riches of Troy. However, everyone knows the pair isn't evenly matched. Paris doesn't stand a chance against Menelaus, the Greeks wouldn't have offered the duel if they thought otherwise." CreationDate="2019-08-04T21:15:02.123" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11799" PostId="5839" Score="0" Text="@yannis Well yes there is the idea that the Greeks may continue even after the return of Helen  but surely the fact that they agreed to stop the war with the return had to mean something in an age where honor was so important and supposedly the Gods cared??" CreationDate="2019-08-05T00:06:19.723" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11800" PostId="5839" Score="0" Text="The duel helps the storyteller paint an honorable picture of the Greeks and also shame Paris as a coward. But that's just about it. A story of an army of a thousand ships going to the other side of the known world only to watch a duel and then return home isn't a very interesting one. Or one that makes a lot of sense, really. How can a story that starts with the king of kings sacrificing his daughter for the cause end on such a dull note. Sure, Menelaus would perhaps be satisfied. But how about everyone else?" CreationDate="2019-08-05T00:27:35.640" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11801" PostId="5839" Score="0" Text="well yes but didn't they make an agreement that they would leave?" CreationDate="2019-08-05T00:50:18.563" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11803" PostId="5839" Score="2" Text="The duel is never meant to conclude. The storyteller only adds it in the story to tell us that the Greeks at least tried to be honorable and that Paris is a coward. That's the whole - and only - point of the duel. The agreement is not significant. The storyteller already knows the duel isn't going to go through as planned, they know Paris will flee. And in doing so, he will release the Greeks from the agreement with their honour intact." CreationDate="2019-08-05T01:31:18.427" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="12283" PostId="5839" Score="0" Text="Can't help but find this part of the tale very strange, like something is missing, or there was an error in translation. Other battle scenes in the story are extremely detailed, from beginning to end, here it starts but then abruptly ceases. It's not said that Paris fled, Menelaus even doesn't say he fled, one moment he's dragging him, then the next he's like looking around for him, hey where did you go. There's no reason the storyteller would need to &quot;cover&quot; for Paris if he had fled, it seems to me, by obfuscating the tale. If he had fled it would have shamed the Trojans and they would have j" CreationDate="2020-01-05T08:28:08.323" UserId="6591" />
  <row Id="11805" PostId="5841" Score="1" Text="I guess I will never understand the whatever is fated to happen so I'll just choose the dangerous option mentality. &#xA;For the Trojans why should they fight so cowardly Paris can keep Helen? It seems reasonable to just give Paris an ultimatum either continue the duel or accept you lost the duel and return Helen I cannot understand the Trojan mentality of not returning Helen. Sure the Greeks may ultimately decide to still attack Troy but they would at least lose come credability/morale..." CreationDate="2019-08-06T01:28:24.780" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11806" PostId="5841" Score="0" Text="@HaoSun It was an honor/shame society, with very complex codes.  Why does Ajax commit suicide? (It's a form of protest, but also inability to live with shame.)  Priam is quite inconstant in regard to Paris, but ultimately chooses to accept and protect him, despite the prophecies that he would be the destruction of Troy.  (Look to Paris' abandonment as an infant on the slopes of Mt. Ida, and how the gods refused to allow him to die.)" CreationDate="2019-08-06T19:24:01.530" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11807" PostId="5841" Score="0" Text="@HaoSun Don't forget that we're dealing with a world that believes in [the Fates](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moirai), and where the gods took part in the war.  What Priam or Paris or the Achaeans is irrelevant.  Troy falls because Hera and Athena demand it, and Aphrodite alone cannot overrule those two combined.  Apollo and Poseidon also have a longstanding grievance against Troy." CreationDate="2019-08-06T19:28:24.577" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11808" PostId="5841" Score="0" Text="That really makes it hard to understand the unwillingness to kill Paris as an infant then or why you wouldn't kill him as an adult later since isn't that what the prophecy said either Paris must die or Troy would be destroyed? &#xA;&#xA;as for honor/shame based society wouldn't that be all the more reason to either return Helen or force Paris to fight? Fleeing a duel is certainly dishonorable as is stealing Helen in the male oriented society." CreationDate="2019-08-06T22:33:43.973" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11809" PostId="5841" Score="2" Text="What would be the story then @HaoSun? Crazy king in a faraway kingdom murders infant son because of some vague prophecy, the end?" CreationDate="2019-08-07T11:21:34.727" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11812" PostId="5841" Score="0" Text="@HaoSun Priam's big scene is when he comes to Achilles pleading for the return of Hector's corpse, which conveys great depth of feeling, and humanizes Achilles in that he finally relents.  Priam had a big heart--couldn't bear to kill the infant directly, and, when Paris returns as an adult, everyone marvels, and Priam can't bear to lose him.  Remember that all of the great tragedies are built upon tragic, human flaws." CreationDate="2019-08-08T16:22:27.050" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11813" PostId="5841" Score="0" Text="yeah thats also weird that so much emphasis is put on for instance the killing of 12 Trojan prisoners when so many towns were sacked and troy was offered no mercy" CreationDate="2019-08-08T17:35:00.620" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11814" PostId="5841" Score="1" Text="@HaoSun Killing prisoners to honor the dead is not confined to Greek mythology.  I seem to recall similar episodes in Chinese mythology (Three Kingdoms and so forth), despite the Confucian ideal of benevolence. Human sacrifice is not uncommon in Greek mythology, from Andromeda to Iphigenia. There is good archaeological evidence of human sacrifice in &quot;Bronze age&quot; Europe." CreationDate="2019-08-08T21:47:49.860" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11845" PostId="5841" Score="0" Text="@HaoS added a supplement to explain why honor was a factor." CreationDate="2019-08-19T18:37:55.037" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11846" PostId="5841" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou  hmm reminds me of a chinese saying that Loyalty and Honor it is difficult to do both.but I got the feeling that Honor was more important than loyalty/kinship  for the Greeks&#xA;&#xA;I'm surprised about the human sacrifices in 3k I've never heard of them  but actually my point was that people seem to focus on the killing of 12 Trojan Prisoners rather than say the sack of so many towns and the eventual destruction of Troy" CreationDate="2019-08-19T19:36:56.247" UserId="5329" />
  <row Id="11847" PostId="5841" Score="0" Text="@haoS my sense is that kin-killing is stigmatizing.  The line from which Agamemnon comes from is cursed due to a web of outrages. Similarly with the Oedipus, which leads to Polynices vs. Eteocles  It's only when we get to Aeschylus that kin-killing is vindicated in the sense of Orestes/Clytmnaestra, and, even there, it's something of a kangaroo court." CreationDate="2019-08-19T19:48:46.870" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11829" PostId="5848" Score="2" Text="As far as i can tell, this is an idea that comes from fantasy fiction,  not mythology. Surprisingly, the first time I encountered the idea was an episode of _Star Trek_ called &quot;[Who mourns for Adonais?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Mourns_for_Adonais%3F)&quot;." CreationDate="2019-08-11T17:19:32.427" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11828" PostId="5849" Score="1" Text="Having read some of [The Obsolescence of Oracles](http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Moralia/De_defectu_oraculorum*.html) I can see it contains a story about Pan being dead, but there doesn't seem to be anything about a cause of this death, much less the one that OP is asking about. Can you add a quote from this work  that makes you think this answers the question?" CreationDate="2019-08-11T17:12:47.830" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11838" PostId="5849" Score="0" Text="Yes -- in speaking of the failing of the Oracles, Plutarch says:&#xA;&#xA;&quot;The power of the spirit does not affect all persons nor the same persons always in the same way, but it only supplies an enkindling and an inception, as has been said...&quot;" CreationDate="2019-08-13T23:48:39.647" UserId="6268" />
  <row Id="11839" PostId="5849" Score="0" Text="for them that are in a proper state to be affected and to undergo the change. The power comes from the gods and demigods, but, for all that, it is not unfailing nor imperishable nor ageless, lasting into that infinite time by which all things between earth and moon become wearied out, according to our reasoning. And there are some who assert that the things above the moon also do not abide, but give out as they confront the everlasting and infinite, and undergo continual transmutations and rebirths.&quot;(section 51)" CreationDate="2019-08-13T23:49:53.003" UserId="6268" />
  <row Id="11840" PostId="5849" Score="3" Text="I've edited in what you quoted into your answer....this time.   Now you know what to do the next time. Unfortunately,  I don't see how that quote supports your argument. From what I read, Plutarch was saying that demigods have a **natural** lifespan, albeit one much longer than men.  Nothing about requiring worship for sustenance." CreationDate="2019-08-14T01:30:04.843" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11836" PostId="5850" Score="2" Text="Hi, we prefer longer answers that explain their concepts fully. Also, you'll soon find out that links break. So you should edit supporting text from your sources into the answer." CreationDate="2019-08-12T21:49:13.903" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11837" PostId="5850" Score="1" Text="Ah! Sorry. Out of Practice. I'll amend." CreationDate="2019-08-13T23:29:08.163" UserId="6268" />
  <row Id="11826" PostId="5851" Score="1" Text="Possible duplicate of [Why did Heracles transform into a fawn, during the gods flight to Egypt?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2901/why-did-heracles-transform-into-a-fawn-during-the-gods-flight-to-egypt)" CreationDate="2019-08-10T22:33:02.183" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11835" PostId="5852" Score="2" Text="Hi, this answer could be improved by adding some references." CreationDate="2019-08-12T21:46:15.327" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11830" PostId="5853" Score="0" Text="[The idea that there were people who self-idetified as witches during the Middle Ages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-cult_hypothesis) is not given much credence any more." CreationDate="2019-08-11T19:00:27.703" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11834" PostId="5853" Score="0" Text="[Susanna Clark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Strange_%26_Mr_Norrell#Volume_I:_Mr_Norrell) definitely seems to suggest this, but Shakespeare wrote about that &quot;great magician, damned [Glendower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Glendower_(Shakespeare_character))&quot; who was a Welshman." CreationDate="2019-08-12T20:42:50.703" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11852" PostId="5853" Score="0" Text="The words &quot;magician&quot; and &quot;witch&quot; have very different etymologies in English. Around the time of Shakespeare, a magician would be someone practicing [legerdemain](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=legerdemain), whereas &quot;witch&quot; would have meant to Shakespeare _a woman supposed to have dealings with the devil or evil spirits and to be able by their cooperation to perform supernatural acts_." CreationDate="2019-08-21T20:17:12.047" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11907" PostId="5853" Score="0" Text="Lancashire did have a reputation for having many witches. Some historians have argued this is because people there could pose as witches for profit (witches could act like a kind of herbalist healer)." CreationDate="2019-09-17T04:47:21.513" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="11842" PostId="5856" Score="0" Text="The Greek canon is especially rich in that much has survived in written form.  The canon is, in some sense, subsequent generations of story tellers &quot;riffing&quot; on previous stories, adding details or contradicting previous accounts.  *(My favorite contemporary mythographer is [Madeline Miller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeline_Miller#Early_life).  I'm considering her [Circe](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35959740-circe) as a new addition to the canon!)*" CreationDate="2019-08-14T17:55:43.223" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11843" PostId="5856" Score="0" Text="I can't find &quot;Rick Riordan's guide to Greek gods and heroes&quot;.  Could you link to the book on Goodreads?" CreationDate="2019-08-14T17:59:56.630" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11844" PostId="5856" Score="1" Text="Any source or explanation for your conclusion? You say this answer comes from researching, but you don't mention your source or your method for determining it" CreationDate="2019-08-15T17:08:59.237" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="11895" PostId="5858" Score="0" Text="&quot;Etymology is a wonderful thing!&quot; Couldn't agree more. Thanks for the new word study!" CreationDate="2019-09-07T03:58:51.603" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="11944" PostId="5861" Score="0" Text="For starters, [horse sacrifice](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_sacrifice) was quite common, so the two ideas (horses as sacrifice, and horses as totemic symbol) might not be meaningfully related after all. Secondly, the seas are shaky by nature; during storms, they become even more so; earthquakes obviously shake the earth; and the gallop of large animals, such as horses or [bulls](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur), has a similar effect." CreationDate="2019-09-27T11:51:32.473" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="11856" PostId="5865" Score="0" Text="I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because mythology is not an RPG.  You'd be better off asking whether there are any myths involving Styx swearing by herself." CreationDate="2019-08-22T13:09:17.960" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11860" PostId="5865" Score="2" Text="From my perspective this is a perfectly legitimate &amp; actually very interesting Question, along the lines of fairly timeless sociopolitical dilemmas such as &quot;Who polices the police?&quot; or &quot;What if a judge breaks the law in her own courtroom?&quot; (&amp; we do have a number of similar hypothetical/paradox-related Questions on the site preceding this one.)" CreationDate="2019-08-23T17:17:51.927" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11861" PostId="5865" Score="3" Text="Or to put it differently: The gods are beholden to certain laws; Styx is a part of the legal framework thereof; but Styx herself is also one of the gods, is 1 of the judges (of both the gods &amp; the human dead) in the Underworld, &amp;, unlike more abstract entities such as Tartarus or Pontus, is an actual full-fledged character with a distinct personality who expresses desires and possesses goals in the mythology. Where does she herself fit into said legal framework?" CreationDate="2019-08-23T17:20:37.680" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11870" PostId="5865" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra The [help center](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/dont-ask) explicitly says that hypothetical &quot;What if&quot; questions are off-topic. If there are no actual myths where this happens, then no answer can be considered correct." CreationDate="2019-08-24T04:24:05.253" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11871" PostId="5865" Score="3" Text="Hmmm... Technically it specifies against _subjective, open-ended_ hypothetical Questions. But I suppose &quot;open-ended&quot;, &amp; how useful a particular inquiry is in its own context, are open to interpretation. I think I understand Fuzzy Squid's angle here (which I don't see as subjective), hence my offered interpretation, but that's merely my opinion. As I've pointed out, though, there are similar Questions on the site, likewise with no obvious direct example from an event occurring in a myth but with conclusions towards which one could reason, based on other events or principles therein." CreationDate="2019-08-24T07:34:49.687" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11850" PostId="5866" Score="0" Text="Sorry I should have mentioned that I was aware of the Cherokee legend in the question. It's an interesting find but for the purposes of this question I am only interested in Greek or Turkish folklore. Unless of course you have any reason to believe the author is referencing the Cherokee legend and not one from the area the novel takes place in." CreationDate="2019-08-20T23:18:51.317" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11851" PostId="5866" Score="0" Text="Then no. I really couldn't find something about Turkish or Greek wolves avenging their death. There is a lot of read about this subject so I might of missed somethings." CreationDate="2019-08-21T04:07:52.930" UserDisplayName="user6252" />
  <row Id="16606" PostId="5866" Score="0" Text="Links have a tendency of breaking. Please edit your post to cite the relevant passage directly." CreationDate="2024-01-30T00:46:57.590" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11854" PostId="5869" Score="0" Text="Thanks, amazing stuff, but I thought Osiris was the Orion Constellation, which is not the center around which everything turns?" CreationDate="2019-08-22T02:30:42.330" UserId="5431" />
  <row Id="11855" PostId="5869" Score="0" Text="this is not so much about the Osirian constellation, but about the practice of sarcophagi to ensure resurrection. That's why in its earliest forms, Osiris was represented as [Djed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djed) which also links this myth to the Mesopotamian tree of life." CreationDate="2019-08-22T07:05:52.307" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11876" PostId="5873" Score="1" Text="He either had a Bag of Holding or a TARDIS." CreationDate="2019-08-26T10:07:56.527" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="11905" PostId="5873" Score="2" Text="If Santa Claus can do all he does in a single night..." CreationDate="2019-09-12T20:44:14.653" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11874" PostId="5876" Score="0" Text="Hmm... don't seem to find anything" CreationDate="2019-08-25T22:37:35.520" UserDisplayName="user6252" />
  <row Id="11875" PostId="5876" Score="2" Text="This sounds more up Ovid's alley." CreationDate="2019-08-25T23:00:47.343" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11878" PostId="5879" Score="0" Text="Couldn't Proteus use his powers to zap the men?" CreationDate="2019-08-26T21:58:42.210" UserDisplayName="user6252" />
  <row Id="11879" PostId="5879" Score="0" Text="@FuzzySquid You're right that it seems a little strange that an immortal god would let himself be captured so easily, the story doesn't really go into the reason why this works" CreationDate="2019-08-26T22:11:41.713" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="11877" PostId="5881" Score="0" Text="Thanks. Yes, it's a beautiful motif that works astronomically, but what I'm failing to find is any relevant mythologies that (as claimed by Yeats) associate the North Star with the Tree of Life, or have a Bear encircling or tending the Tree of Life (with or without a dragon)" CreationDate="2019-08-26T13:34:19.887" UserId="5431" />
  <row Id="11882" PostId="5882" Score="2" Text="Possible duplicate of [Who was the first Satan like deity/creature/person in mythology?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/5420/who-was-the-first-satan-like-deity-creature-person-in-mythology)" CreationDate="2019-08-30T10:21:49.240" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11880" PostId="5884" Score="1" Text="What has your research shown you so far? Where have you already searched? What did you find?" CreationDate="2019-08-27T18:33:24.860" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11881" PostId="5884" Score="1" Text="https://www.theoi.com/Summary/Ares.html" CreationDate="2019-08-27T18:40:49.343" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14359" PostId="5884" Score="0" Text="All the pictures I see him in he has fire surrounding him I know fire is like Hephaestus power but maybe Ares share the same powers." CreationDate="2021-03-25T16:32:18.490" UserId="7860" />
  <row Id="11890" PostId="5891" Score="0" Text="Thanks for your answer. The Coptic Scriptorium is no good, it only has maybe 100 short (1 page) documents, I am looking for something with MEAT on the bones. Something like a novel or bible or something (I've seen the Coptic bible), but in Coptic. Maybe 1000 pages of songs or something, I don't know. I saw that Avesta but it's not in Farsi, I want the original script! :)" CreationDate="2019-09-06T04:30:52.580" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="11904" PostId="5893" Score="0" Text="Closest I could find is called 'guardian motif':   https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/asian-art-furniture/metalwork/large-brass-door-knockers-guardian-motif/id-f_9775421/" CreationDate="2019-09-11T05:25:07.183" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="11898" PostId="5894" Score="0" Text="Is there something you want to know about the Annunaki  that's not in [their Wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anunnaki#Hurrian_and_Hittite)?" CreationDate="2019-09-08T15:27:08.370" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11899" PostId="5894" Score="1" Text="@Spencer Lots of interesting information there, thanks. There's a curious discrepancy though, according to the article the Anunnaki are always eight in number in Hittite texts, not twelve." CreationDate="2019-09-08T17:22:33.097" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11901" PostId="5894" Score="0" Text="That seems like the start of a good answer @Gibet. Please consider posting one, when you have the time." CreationDate="2019-09-09T15:14:50.760" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11906" PostId="5895" Score="0" Text="Thank you. I'd be very disappointed if the twelve figures turned out to be Annunaki." CreationDate="2019-09-14T08:33:10.410" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11908" PostId="5898" Score="0" Text="Al-Lat and Ereshkigal could be the same deity if Al-Lat was based on [Allatu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allatu)." CreationDate="2019-09-17T22:31:36.240" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="11927" PostId="5905" Score="3" Text="This is a good answer. I'm not sure why it received a downvote. Please consider undeleting it." CreationDate="2019-09-23T08:25:32.143" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="11914" PostId="5906" Score="6" Text="This is covered pretty thoroughly on Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_days_of_the_week" CreationDate="2019-09-18T10:26:00.897" UserId="201" />
  <row Id="12017" PostId="5906" Score="0" Text="This question deals more with English etymology, than mythology." CreationDate="2019-11-01T21:40:02.177" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="11918" PostId="5910" Score="3" Text="How is &quot;one man and one woman survive and repopulate the earth&quot; a Christian influence? Genesis has Noah, his wife, their sons and their wives all surviving the flood. By contrast, Ovid has two people surviving the flood to repopulate the earth. This doesn't seem Christian at all to me" CreationDate="2019-09-19T14:01:20.777" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="15771" PostId="5910" Score="0" Text="Lots of dubious or downright false claims here. Iceland definitely not the first area to be christianized in the Norse world. Heimdall does not become the supreme god after Ragnarok, in fact he dies there fighting against Loki. Loki's role fits perfectly with other Indo-European parallels. There are traces of cyclical time in Norse mythology, but they have nothing to do with who is the head of the pantheon. Also, there's no evidence that Tyr used to be the head." CreationDate="2021-12-17T17:12:43.403" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="11924" PostId="5912" Score="0" Text="This is very interesting , thanks!" CreationDate="2019-09-21T22:59:14.977" UserId="6343" />
  <row Id="11925" PostId="5915" Score="3" Text="This sounds less like the actual riddle, and more like a warning the Sphinx gives before presenting the riddle (presumably to Oedipus). As such, it's probably from some (possibly ancient) literary retelling of the Oedipus myth.  Since you've found way more results in Portuguese than in English, I'd start by looking for Portuguese-language versions." CreationDate="2019-09-22T15:37:26.100" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11926" PostId="5915" Score="1" Text="For example, the first  result in Italian containing &quot;deciframi&quot; and &quot;divoro&quot; led me to an 1881 novel by a Brazilian author, _[Memorias posthumas de Braz Cubras](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Posthumous_Memoirs_of_Bras_Cubas)_." CreationDate="2019-09-22T15:57:03.040" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11928" PostId="5915" Score="1" Text="The oldest version I know that includes the riddle itself is the _Bibliotheca_ of Apollodorus, and it doesn't seem to include anything like this. So I'm guessing it's a later interpolation." CreationDate="2019-09-23T16:51:05.083" UserId="4022" />
  <row Id="11930" PostId="5915" Score="0" Text="@Spencer hmm yeah this making it through a writer would make sense indeed. Looking for the quote from the book, though, the phrase appears as more of a revelation, like an idea that came to his mind that really held him(of a sublime medicine that would alleviate humanity's melancholy or something)... Now how this got associated with the Sphinx firmly as it have would be nice to know" CreationDate="2019-09-24T01:38:26.757" UserId="6344" />
  <row Id="11931" PostId="5915" Score="0" Text="But it would be a really good idea to search old Portuguese language mythology books, in case this was already associated with the Sphinx in the mind of the novel-reading Brazilian public when de Assis wrote it." CreationDate="2019-09-24T13:07:16.420" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="16350" PostId="5920" Score="0" Text="In myths that we have.  There obviously could have been a lot of lost myths." CreationDate="2023-05-01T00:31:44.287" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14477" PostId="5921" Score="0" Text="That is a pet theory, someone trying to shoehorn Egyptian concepts into their private psychoanalytic interpretation, unsubstantiated in any way by sources.  &quot;Operating on rational arguments the Ba negates afterlife, just to protect the protagonist from suicide&quot;.  Really." CreationDate="2021-06-05T17:15:34.580" UserId="6226" />
  <row Id="11929" PostId="5922" Score="0" Text="Thanks for this answer!  Very informative re Finnish folklore.  I'll note we also find crow women in the Irish cycle, Badb as &quot;battle crow&quot; and so forth." CreationDate="2019-09-23T18:59:44.580" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11967" PostId="5926" Score="0" Text="What does this passage have to do with the words or concept of &quot;decipher me or I devour you&quot;?" CreationDate="2019-09-29T10:07:46.227" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="11976" PostId="5926" Score="1" Text="the fact that &quot;decipher me or I devour you&quot; do not appear in the oldest source." CreationDate="2019-10-01T13:47:09.167" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="11979" PostId="5926" Score="0" Text="Maybe you should edit your answer to clarify. Your first sentence, that Sophocles is &quot;the oldest written source for this,&quot; seems to imply the opposite, and your entire summary of the story in your second paragraph seems to be absent from the passage you quote" CreationDate="2019-10-01T17:04:49.027" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="11983" PostId="5946" Score="0" Text="thank you for your answer. I was hoping that someone pointed to me a specific quote in some ancient &quot;bible-like&quot; religious text.. but probably this is not true. I will wait a little if some has some other source." CreationDate="2019-10-03T17:47:27.933" UserId="6379" />
  <row Id="11984" PostId="5946" Score="0" Text="@fritz - It may help if you edit your Q to say what you are specifically looking for - except if you are looking for 'Bible related', this may be the wrong forum? I even felt my answer was 'out of place'" CreationDate="2019-10-03T17:57:37.497" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="11981" PostId="5947" Score="1" Text="Nice find! Welcome to Mythology and Folklore!" CreationDate="2019-10-01T20:14:07.250" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11982" PostId="5948" Score="0" Text="Hi. What makes you think that this is a concept in mythology at all?  What  myths have you seen it in?" CreationDate="2019-10-02T21:38:39.637" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="11988" PostId="5948" Score="0" Text="&quot;...unlike most people, had aspects of both,...&quot; Do you reject the idea that the rage/selfishness/greed/immorality, etc.in mankind is precisely the manifestation of the 'animal nature' / demiurge? Myths, in this regard, point us back to looking at ourselves: Gnostic/Norse/Greek/Bible.... However, if there were only 2 parts to Man, we would never be able to 'rise above' (fully) the chaos. We have to be more than 'two parts'. Can't tell from the Q what you are really asking about." CreationDate="2019-10-06T01:34:24.060" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="11997" PostId="5959" Score="0" Text="Nice one!  I'm sort of feeling inspired to link your references on Perseus where available, if you have no objections.  *(My thought it it would strengthen this answer as a resource.)*" CreationDate="2019-10-16T20:19:09.900" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="11999" PostId="5959" Score="0" Text="Thanks! I added some links." CreationDate="2019-10-17T01:32:07.117" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="11994" PostId="5963" Score="0" Text="@Yannis, thanks for tidying that up." CreationDate="2019-10-16T12:30:14.707" UserId="6166" />
  <row Id="11995" PostId="5963" Score="1" Text="Thank you! I will definitely check these out!!" CreationDate="2019-10-16T18:05:00.880" UserId="3658" />
  <row Id="11993" PostId="5964" Score="2" Text="I added some applicable tags for you. Welcome to Mythology and Folklore!" CreationDate="2019-10-15T17:19:26.333" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="11996" PostId="5964" Score="1" Text="Added a note on the names (Epiales/Ephialtes), which area essentially the same word (the latter is an Aeolian form.)" CreationDate="2019-10-16T20:05:51.077" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16577" PostId="5964" Score="0" Text="Theoi is as credible as you get, considering it's chiefly a collection of primary sources. What more do you want besides what the ancients actually had said?" CreationDate="2023-12-31T21:49:29.170" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="11998" PostId="5966" Score="1" Text="I agree that's very close! I'm just very surprised that there's no precedent in classic myth." CreationDate="2019-10-16T20:26:49.063" UserId="6407" />
  <row Id="12007" PostId="5974" Score="1" Text="Added 1 more source" CreationDate="2019-10-25T18:07:37.793" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="12003" PostId="5976" Score="1" Text="I added applicable tags to your question. If this is not what you want you can always roll back the edit. Welcome to mythology and folklore!" CreationDate="2019-10-23T10:31:00.917" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12004" PostId="5976" Score="0" Text="that is ok tom . do you also know the answer?" CreationDate="2019-10-23T10:32:42.773" UserId="6438" />
  <row Id="12005" PostId="5976" Score="1" Text="I might know some and I am fairly certain there are some people on this SE who are better qualified than me to answer this. If I find the time I will post an answer but I am pretty stretched for time." CreationDate="2019-10-23T10:36:45.183" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12010" PostId="5979" Score="1" Text="wow this is a amazing answer!" CreationDate="2019-10-29T16:45:33.970" UserId="6438" />
  <row Id="12011" PostId="5979" Score="3" Text="Glad that it is of benefit :-)" CreationDate="2019-10-29T23:54:39.073" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="12014" PostId="5981" Score="1" Text="I don't think that other question linked by Tom is a duplicate. The other question is about mythology in general, whilst this question is specifically about Greek mythology." CreationDate="2019-10-31T13:11:49.147" UserId="6166" />
  <row Id="12032" PostId="5981" Score="0" Text="I propose to start with the basics... And the basics are the birth of the Gods.&#xA;So, find a book about The Theogony or Theogonia." CreationDate="2019-10-30T16:53:50.500" UserId="6461" />
  <row Id="12016" PostId="5985" Score="1" Text="Great question. Welcome to mythology and folklore!" CreationDate="2019-11-01T05:59:36.013" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12015" PostId="5986" Score="3" Text="Added a reference from 1 source" CreationDate="2019-11-01T00:59:37.977" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="12020" PostId="5994" Score="0" Text="Excellent! Do you perhaps know if in the Codex Regius the &quot;speakers&quot; were announced before each stanza, like &quot;John said: ...&quot; and &quot;Jane said: ....&quot;. E.g. [Þórr kvað:](https://heimskringla.no/wiki/Hymiskvi%C3%B0a)." CreationDate="2019-11-02T20:56:52.537" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="12021" PostId="5994" Score="0" Text="@LancePollard https://www.voluspa.org/poeticedda.htm" CreationDate="2019-11-02T22:26:26.803" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="12022" PostId="5994" Score="0" Text="that is one of a million examples of supposedly &quot;ancient&quot; texts, but they have tons of modern formatting. is that formatting present in the original original?" CreationDate="2019-11-02T22:29:15.380" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="12023" PostId="5994" Score="0" Text="@LancePollard The picture in my answer shows the original original directly...." CreationDate="2019-11-02T22:32:46.577" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="12024" PostId="5994" Score="0" Text="I don't see the speaker or the colon in the picture." CreationDate="2019-11-02T22:48:24.500" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="12025" PostId="5994" Score="0" Text="@LancePollard I bought a side-by-side transcription/translation in dead tree form and things like  &quot;Þórr kvað&quot; did appear in the verse, but only because it was part of the verse....." CreationDate="2019-11-02T23:00:08.517" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="12018" PostId="5996" Score="0" Text="How could I forget to mention Patroclus. That's bad. Great answer." CreationDate="2019-11-02T12:48:49.523" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12019" PostId="5996" Score="1" Text=":-) Well, there _is_ quite an avalanche of names that gets thrown around in the Trojan War saga." CreationDate="2019-11-02T15:52:30.860" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="16261" PostId="5996" Score="0" Text="Don't forget he's also &quot;man-slaying&quot; Hector." CreationDate="2023-01-21T19:24:29.567" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="12028" PostId="5997" Score="2" Text="In which mythology are you asking.  The answer will vary from culture to culture.  A television programme is merely entertainment and cannot be taken as an accurate representation of any one particular mythology." CreationDate="2019-11-04T13:16:17.323" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="14609" PostId="5998" Score="0" Text="I would love to find the source of it. This is at least fascinating." CreationDate="2021-09-13T09:44:22.237" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="12031" PostId="6000" Score="1" Text="This would benefit from a citation." CreationDate="2019-11-06T22:02:16.310" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="12044" PostId="6004" Score="0" Text="And of course we know what happens after that." CreationDate="2019-11-15T02:36:07.703" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="12282" PostId="6006" Score="1" Text="Prussia, on the Baltic sea, wasn't christianized until well into the 1200's, when it was subjugated by the Teutonic Knights." CreationDate="2020-01-01T01:42:37.180" UserId="6582" />
  <row Id="12036" PostId="6014" Score="0" Text="My thanks for that - even though you were the bearer of bad news, I wish I had enough reputation to upvote this answer! I'll probably accept it by clicking on the tickmark, but I'll just wait a little longer in case anyone else answers." CreationDate="2019-11-13T09:18:10.333" UserId="6394" />
  <row Id="12037" PostId="6014" Score="0" Text="Incidentally, do you have links to the (untranslated) scholiast of Theocritus, or of Pindar's Olympian Ode? Euripides' Orestes was one of the ones I was looking for, thanks for that!" CreationDate="2019-11-13T10:23:57.343" UserId="6394" />
  <row Id="12038" PostId="6014" Score="1" Text="[Theocritus](https://archive.org/details/scholiaintheocr00wendgoog/page/n43), [Pindar Olympian Odes](https://scaife.perseus.org/library/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg5034.tlg001a/)" CreationDate="2019-11-13T10:38:45.597" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="12039" PostId="6014" Score="1" Text="For future reference, [Scaife viewer](https://scaife.perseus.org/library/) has the major scholia as text. If you're looking for scholia on archive.org, what I do is control+f &quot;scholia&quot; [here](http://heml.mta.ca/lace/catalog.html) to find it and then paste the id number after the url `archive.org/details/`, or if it's not there, just search directly on archive.org" CreationDate="2019-11-13T10:45:05.440" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="12042" PostId="6014" Score="0" Text="Thanks again! If you don't mind a followup question re the Scaife viewer - I cannot tell which of the volumes listed at https://scaife.perseus.org/library/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg5026.tlg001.1st1K-grc1/ would pertain to Iliad 18 (18.486 to be precise.)" CreationDate="2019-11-15T00:03:02.230" UserId="6394" />
  <row Id="12043" PostId="6014" Score="1" Text="@Astrid_Redfern I think you would have to check manually through each book through each book, since the numbers in the interface don't correspond to the numbers in Homer. But ctrl+f of 18.486 in the [XML file](https://raw.githubusercontent.com/OpenGreekAndLatin/First1KGreek/master/data/tlg5026/tlg001/tlg5026.tlg001.1st1K-grc1.xml) worked for me to locate the passages. As it turns out, the numbers to type in &quot;passage reference&quot; are 2.18.198 and 6a.18.64" CreationDate="2019-11-15T01:01:11.553" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="12049" PostId="6014" Score="0" Text="Cheers - 2.18.198 was exactly what I was looking for." CreationDate="2019-11-17T13:32:49.237" UserId="6394" />
  <row Id="12041" PostId="6016" Score="0" Text="Reading the scholiast on Pindar's Olympian Odes (https://scaife.perseus.org/reader/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg5034.tlg001a.perseus-grc1:3.53) and using Google Translate, I think it does say that Taygete and Artemis were friends, but I can't be sure." CreationDate="2019-11-14T23:15:54.107" UserId="6394" />
  <row Id="12047" PostId="6016" Score="0" Text="Examinging the A scholia to Iliad 18.486 online at https://scaife.perseus.org/reader/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg5026.tlg001.1st1K-grc1:2.18.198/ (my thanks to @b-a for pointing me to that), there seems to be something early in that about the girls being virgins and loving Artemis, but it could just be Artemis's usual role as protector of maidens before marriage. My Greek isn't really good enough to translate further." CreationDate="2019-11-16T22:28:58.090" UserId="6394" />
  <row Id="12051" PostId="6019" Score="0" Text="To your knowledge, does Apasmara have any relation to the Buddhist Mara? I think I read somewhere that Mara somewhat symbolizes ignorance—distracting and tempting Buddha. Please correct me if I’m wrong, for I cannot recall where I read this. Any other insight would be appreciated." CreationDate="2019-11-17T22:17:12.330" UserId="6161" />
  <row Id="12050" PostId="6021" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the translations, especially the one from the Iliad scholiast! If I may ask a follow-up question, does anything in the Iliad scholiast extract say anything about one of the sisters being in some way their leader? theoi.com makes an unsourced claim that it's Maia, Graves makes an equally unsourced claim that it's Alcyone, and I can't find anything that actually supports the claim that anyone was!" CreationDate="2019-11-17T22:10:51.690" UserId="6394" />
  <row Id="12052" PostId="6021" Score="1" Text="I looked at it again and didn't see that there, but I only skimmed through so it's possible that it's there and I missed it" CreationDate="2019-11-17T23:02:28.263" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="12064" PostId="6028" Score="1" Text="I assume by &quot;confident&quot; you mean &quot;trustworthy'? If not, confidence and accuracy are not the same thing, and are even sometimes inversely correlation." CreationDate="2019-11-22T04:26:25.033" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="12068" PostId="6029" Score="0" Text="Makes me wonder why Sigyn doesn't just bust him out, but I guess that's another question." CreationDate="2019-11-23T00:01:42.747" UserId="6505" />
  <row Id="12182" PostId="6047" Score="0" Text="Of course the “fall from grace” motif is not specific to Christianity, for it has been identified even in the ancient Akkadian myth Adapa and the Southwind. Thank you for pointing out room for clarification; I requested insight on specifically in relation to Christianity since the story was so uncannily similar to the fall of “Lucifer” in biblical lore, and I wondered if they had a defined correlation." CreationDate="2019-12-27T17:40:38.800" UserId="6161" />
  <row Id="12183" PostId="6047" Score="0" Text="@Koios, that's because much of the biblical lore, especially the OT, is a rephrasing of older myths. The Adam &amp; Eve yth is actyally a copy of a much older Babylonian myth. The name of the female thus created, Eve, or in its original semitic form Hawah, means life. In the Sumerian myth, the word ti from the name Ninti has a double meaning; it could mean either ‘rib’ or ‘life’. Thus Ninti can be rendered as “lady of the rib” or “lady of life”." CreationDate="2019-12-27T17:51:01.797" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14596" PostId="6050" Score="0" Text="Hi. If I'm not wrong, I asked the question, but I'm from another account right now. Anyway, I found 2 legends (potentially of ancient origin or with ancient roots but I might be wrong), one from the 1600s and the other from Mohave folklore in these links: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_to_the_West#Sequels , en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohave_traditional_narratives . I hope I'm not wrong and that these stories are not later-date additions to the literature I talk about. You can check if they're surely not later additions, if you want, thank you." CreationDate="2021-08-29T23:14:34.380" UserId="8427" />
  <row Id="12092" PostId="6051" Score="1" Text="Hello @Dan and welcome to M&amp;F SE, please take some time to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour). Your question is interesting, but I wonder: are you looking for an &quot;historical&quot; Heracles that did all those deeds or for historical figures that inspired the myths?" CreationDate="2019-12-03T09:24:20.003" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="12093" PostId="6051" Score="0" Text="Many thanks. I went to Greece (and specifically to the island of Cos) to find any information on the historical Hippocrates from the Greek themselves. I was surprised to find that the Greek scholars have a lot of data which we may not have yet. Therefore, yes, I am interested in details on the &quot;historical&quot; Heracles as well, if any." CreationDate="2019-12-03T09:48:43.827" UserId="6535" />
  <row Id="12102" PostId="6051" Score="0" Text="Have you also looked into the Etruscan matter?  I'm no expert in the field, but do know that Hercle seems to be a pretty popular hero among that people as well." CreationDate="2019-12-07T07:30:31.753" UserId="4152" />
  <row Id="15772" PostId="6052" Score="0" Text="Snorri was not a monk. Heimdallr does not become head of the pantheon after Ragnarok." CreationDate="2021-12-17T17:15:52.087" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="12104" PostId="6056" Score="1" Text="Although we appreciate your contribution and participation, it would be better if you can provide citations for your believe. Is there evidence from sources to suggest the two names are used as you argued?" CreationDate="2019-12-11T07:50:12.123" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="12106" PostId="6058" Score="1" Text="You do realize that anything from the Old Testament (such as the Book of Psalms) is pre-Christian..." CreationDate="2019-12-11T22:54:12.770" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="12175" PostId="6064" Score="0" Text="In addition to the [Babylonian captivity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity), the origin of the Hebrews in the Old Testament is [Chaldea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaldea) in ancient Sumeria, so the connection may be older." CreationDate="2019-12-26T20:30:53.037" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="12134" PostId="6065" Score="0" Text="It might be helpful to provide some info on where this notion arose.  (I can think of at least one referent in modern fantasy literature, for instance.)" CreationDate="2019-12-20T19:14:23.207" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="12373" PostId="6065" Score="2" Text="In *The Argonautica*, the descendants of Helios are said to have eyes that &quot;glittered like gold.&quot;  But it doesn't indicate there's some special power to them otherwise." CreationDate="2020-02-21T22:13:00.820" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12117" PostId="6088" Score="0" Text="Can you elaborate on these characteristics..?" CreationDate="2019-12-18T20:43:05.743" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12118" PostId="6088" Score="0" Text="Any characteristics, such as behavior, costumes, actions, appearance, etc." CreationDate="2019-12-18T20:52:06.540" UserId="6552" />
  <row Id="12125" PostId="6088" Score="2" Text="Who are these people you are talking about? who is giving false information? what are they saying?" CreationDate="2019-12-20T06:00:32.760" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12131" PostId="6088" Score="1" Text="Hi there! I am talking about Anti Semitic people attributing characteristics of **folkloric creatures** to Jewish people. Not the **aspects**. I will edit my post" CreationDate="2019-12-20T13:23:04.657" UserId="6552" />
  <row Id="16426" PostId="6088" Score="0" Text="In folklore, probably not.  In modern fantasy depictions, probably.  The pictures we associate with goblins, for instance, with the long hooked nose, probably arose as part of a general tendency to give creatures that were supposed to be evil or deceptive a stereotypical &quot;jewish look&quot;. You see similar things with the traditional depiction of witches, with hooked noses and a version of the Judenhat that Jews were required to wear.  There was no one way that goblins or ogres or the like were depicted in the folklore, but standardized depictions that developed later often used antisemitic tropes." CreationDate="2023-07-11T16:54:18.087" UserId="10391" />
  <row Id="12132" PostId="6089" Score="0" Text="PS. I edited my post to prevent deletion, and i am asking about Mythological creatures such as the widely known brownies, fairies, ogres, elves, etc. that have their characteristics attibuted to jewish people, by antisemitic people." CreationDate="2019-12-20T13:30:30.593" UserId="6552" />
  <row Id="12137" PostId="6091" Score="0" Text="Hi there, does creatures that carry gold are attibuted to Jewish people by antisemitic people?" CreationDate="2019-12-21T15:49:57.173" UserId="6552" />
  <row Id="12138" PostId="6091" Score="1" Text="@TechnicGoblin5R -- I don't know. I guess you could ask one?  Unless I'm misunderstanding your point, I think I addressed your question in my response: we can certainly speculate that antisemites might (or might not) make such a connexion." CreationDate="2019-12-21T18:18:40.280" UserId="4152" />
  <row Id="12272" PostId="6091" Score="0" Text="I searched on Reddit and found something interesting: https://np.reddit.com/r/askhistorians/search?q=anti-semitism subreddit:askhistorians The thread that i am asking is on the first page of this search" CreationDate="2020-01-23T15:03:38.053" UserId="6552" />
  <row Id="12382" PostId="6091" Score="1" Text="@elemtilas I like the way you think. The enormous bold &quot;Possible&quot; made me wary at first, but your answer is a good one.  I hope people understand the nuance of &quot;anyone can interpret anything the way they want to&quot; without taking your answer to be a definitive affirmative." CreationDate="2020-02-24T18:01:59.457" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12171" PostId="6098" Score="2" Text="&quot;Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.&quot;  - Arthur C. Clarke" CreationDate="2019-12-26T17:34:51.000" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="12173" PostId="6098" Score="0" Text="Welcome to SE:Mythology.  I've edited the title to be more suitable for this stack, and answered the question with some famous examples." CreationDate="2019-12-26T19:47:30.530" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="15815" PostId="6098" Score="0" Text="Corresponding to the paranormal portion of your question- there's sort of scientific proof of *something* at least, after death. If you think about it, every moment we're alive there are electrical impulses shooting around our brains. The law of conservation of energy dictates that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed- yet when we die our nervous system goes dull, uncharged. No more electrical impulses. That energy has to go somewhere, right?" CreationDate="2022-01-12T16:45:21.243" UserId="8907" />
  <row Id="15816" PostId="6098" Score="0" Text="No.  The nervous energy of which you soeak is continuously produced by conversion of food energy and disdipates as heat as it travels through the nervous system.  On death  no food energy  so no nervous energy.  It doesn't &quot;go&quot; anywhere." CreationDate="2022-01-13T06:54:20.120" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="12184" PostId="6099" Score="0" Text="Thanks for this.  I've posted a follow up question." CreationDate="2019-12-28T20:43:24.110" UserId="6571" />
  <row Id="12186" PostId="6107" Score="1" Text="Where can I find out more about the belief systems upon which the Talmud is based?" CreationDate="2019-12-29T12:50:40.267" UserId="6571" />
  <row Id="12187" PostId="6107" Score="0" Text="Universities weren't &quot;driven by religion&quot; they (and religion itself, in that time and place) were driven by the search for truth." CreationDate="2019-12-30T19:39:45.780" UserId="4152" />
  <row Id="12188" PostId="6107" Score="0" Text="Universities in the Middle Ages worked on the princile of [Scholasticism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholasticism), a method of philosophical analysis presupposed upon a Catholic Christian theistic paradigm, not on what we today would call the scientific method. &quot;Truth&quot; is a moldable concept when not underpinned by rigid methods of evidence, repeatability and independent verification." CreationDate="2019-12-31T09:11:04.380" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="12189" PostId="6107" Score="0" Text="@Alhal, edited the answer to include your question in comments" CreationDate="2019-12-31T10:16:12.037" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="12406" PostId="6107" Score="0" Text="This answer is outstanding. +1" CreationDate="2020-03-01T07:25:26.403" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12202" PostId="6114" Score="1" Text="Found some literature about it here: [http://karenannetaylor.orgfree.com/castrate.html](http://karenannetaylor.orgfree.com/castrate.html)" CreationDate="2020-01-04T14:02:53.353" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="12213" PostId="6118" Score="1" Text="Mythology sure has a way to make you cringe sometimes." CreationDate="2020-01-06T08:17:12.623" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12214" PostId="6118" Score="2" Text="Yes, it's a lovely subject, isn't it? Incest, cannibalism, bestiality, castration... And there are other gems I discovered through this stack exchange. Mythology never gets boring!" CreationDate="2020-01-06T12:28:17.367" UserId="2807" />
  <row Id="12211" PostId="6120" Score="1" Text="Hello and welcome to Mythology and Folklore! In the case of the Erinyes their parentage is better described on Theoi than on Wikipedia, https://www.theoi.com/Khthonios/Erinyes.html  I also recommend looking at the page for Plutus there  https://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Ploutos.html" CreationDate="2020-01-05T17:42:16.340" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12212" PostId="6120" Score="1" Text="Thank you! The Erinyes information on there was perfect for another question I had about them." CreationDate="2020-01-05T21:30:12.403" UserId="6589" />
  <row Id="12224" PostId="6132" Score="3" Text="It says in English &quot;not all who wander are lost&quot;. From a [J.R.R. Tokien poem in the LOTR](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/229-all-that-is-gold-does-not-glitter-not-all-those)" CreationDate="2020-01-11T11:11:24.210" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="12268" PostId="6135" Score="1" Text="There's some repetition before and after the pictures." CreationDate="2020-01-20T14:12:34.273" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="12405" PostId="6135" Score="1" Text="I upvoted this answer, as contains interesting information. But it's also a little bit off-topic; the second half of your answer mentioning biblical references to angels is presumably more the context the OP was considering.  You might want to have lead with that part.  ;)" CreationDate="2020-03-01T07:20:30.220" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="14087" PostId="6144" Score="0" Text="I note that I have often read Russian fairy tales where the prince has to cross &quot;thrice ten kingdoms.&quot;  While this is portrayed as a long and arduous journey, it requires far more kingdoms that were actually in any real-life Russia." CreationDate="2021-01-01T22:47:50.497" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14172" PostId="6144" Score="0" Text="@Mary indeed. From what Russian folklore tales I've read, a &quot;kingdom&quot; is usually one of many. It's quite hard to say how big a kingdom is supposed to be as usually stories use measures &quot;three kingdoms away&quot; or &quot;ten kingdoms away&quot; for &quot;it's quite far&quot; but rarely quantify that with, say, &quot;it took six months to get there&quot; or anything similar. When a time measure is added, it seems that one &quot;kingdom&quot; seems to be possible from weeks to about a months or so. Ten kingdoms might take you a couple of years. If anything, a &quot;kingdom&quot; might just be one local ruler and the nearby lands." CreationDate="2021-02-01T07:26:14.747" UserId="6088" />
  <row Id="14088" PostId="6149" Score="1" Text="If I answered your question as noted by you below my answer, would you be so kind to accept my answer?" CreationDate="2021-01-02T11:09:12.280" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12279" PostId="6150" Score="1" Text="Thank you very much!  I believe this was it." CreationDate="2020-01-24T15:51:20.187" UserId="6633" />
  <row Id="12292" PostId="6153" Score="0" Text="They &quot;were named after deities&quot; or _were_ they said deities? Is it not true that the sun god and the sun were one and the same thing?" CreationDate="2020-01-26T22:25:51.970" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="12299" PostId="6153" Score="0" Text="@Geremia The sun is actually a star and not a planet." CreationDate="2020-01-27T11:06:33.197" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="12303" PostId="6153" Score="0" Text="@KenGraham &quot;Planet&quot; means &quot;wanderer&quot;. Anything that moves relative to the fixed background of stars was considered a &quot;planet&quot;." CreationDate="2020-01-27T16:36:21.343" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="12293" PostId="6155" Score="0" Text="That's a good point: Their gods were not omnipresent because they were localized to Mt. Olympus. But they didn't stay on Mt. Olympus, did they?" CreationDate="2020-01-26T22:32:23.993" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="12294" PostId="6155" Score="0" Text="@Geremia Of course not. They interfered with man too." CreationDate="2020-01-26T22:34:37.423" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="12297" PostId="6155" Score="0" Text="Is the sun god the exception? Wasn't the sun god and the sun one and the same thing?" CreationDate="2020-01-26T22:41:22.160" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="12300" PostId="6155" Score="0" Text="@Geremia The sun is not a planet, it is a star and the moon is a satellite of the earth. Neither one one are planets. Your question deals with planets only." CreationDate="2020-01-27T11:09:14.437" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="12305" PostId="6158" Score="0" Text="Can the same be said about the moon and Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn?" CreationDate="2020-01-27T22:49:42.113" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="12307" PostId="6158" Score="1" Text="There is some discussion whether this also applies to the planets. Deities were centainly _associated_ with the planets, but there is no explicit textual reference that they considered them _equal to_ their gods. I think it was more thought of as representing the will of the gods (hence astrology)." CreationDate="2020-01-28T14:34:03.807" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="12310" PostId="6158" Score="0" Text="&quot;_There is some discussion_&quot; Can you please point me to some sources on this discussion? thanks" CreationDate="2020-01-28T15:41:13.843" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="12311" PostId="6158" Score="0" Text="For example, &quot;Draw in breath from the rays, drawing up three times as much as you can, .... You will hear nothing either of man or of any other living thing, nor in that hour will you see anything of mortal affairs on earth, but rather you will see all immortal things. For in that day and hour you will see the divine order of the skies: the presiding gods rising into heaven, and others setting.&quot; in https://oxfordre.com/planetaryscience/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190647926.001.0001/acrefore-9780190647926-e-46 is interpreted by some as the planets actually being the same as deities." CreationDate="2020-01-28T15:47:04.263" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="12321" PostId="6163" Score="0" Text="Could you please expand on your answer? We always love hearing long answers!" CreationDate="2020-01-31T04:28:25.343" UserDisplayName="user6252" />
  <row Id="12326" PostId="6166" Score="1" Text="It's a chicken-egg problem who came first. Sun and Moon are primeval 'natural' deities, after society develops person-like deities appear;  in Babylon planets have been taken to be visible manifestations of such personages.  See F. Cumont *Astrology and Religion*. He also writes (p46) &quot;the names of the planets we employ to-day are an English translation of a Latin translation of a Greek translation of a Babylonian nomenclature&quot;" CreationDate="2020-02-02T11:06:42.447" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="12329" PostId="6168" Score="0" Text="Do you have any sources to back this up?" CreationDate="2020-02-05T17:15:10.887" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12332" PostId="6168" Score="0" Text="@Tom - I don't own any specific sources" CreationDate="2020-02-05T22:07:12.867" UserId="6659" />
  <row Id="13817" PostId="6168" Score="1" Text="I don't know whether that is incredibly beautiful or incredibly ugly.  I can't imagine what it would be like to have that attitude. My first thought was how awful it must be to think so little of oneself, to idolize the past and not search for the future.  Personally I care about my current and future self, family, and descendants; I barely even think about my ancestors, dead people whose past actions, good or bad, can no longer affect me or anyone else.&quot;*Without our identity we have nothing.*&quot; is the basis of racism, tribalism, and various other evils." CreationDate="2020-08-17T12:13:43.960" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="13818" PostId="6168" Score="0" Text="Good point Ray. Clinging strongly to identities divides us and creates the ‘us and them’ problem - probably the greatest source of conflict on the planet so far. It’s difficult to know though what impact our ancestors have had on us and what mannerisms we and genetic commands our bodies have inherited from them. Those who live in cities for example have a clear picture all around them of what has been done in the past. Someone built roads and pavements, buildings and wired the lot together. The nomadic Aborigines don’t have those remnants so perhaps they connect more spiritually with founders" CreationDate="2020-08-18T14:59:04.077" UserId="6659" />
  <row Id="12336" PostId="6174" Score="0" Text="Hello and welcome to Mythology and Folklore, this is a great start but could you expand on your answer, sources are also greatly appreciated." CreationDate="2020-02-06T17:46:11.800" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12352" PostId="6176" Score="0" Text="@Gibet An example would be greatly appreciated." CreationDate="2020-02-14T05:33:36.963" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12343" PostId="6178" Score="0" Text="You mean, besides [Maximum Overdrive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_Overdrive)?" CreationDate="2020-02-09T22:27:42.533" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="12345" PostId="6178" Score="0" Text="Not what I was after, but a very similar concept. Thanks!" CreationDate="2020-02-10T20:49:46.637" UserId="6665" />
  <row Id="12346" PostId="6181" Score="0" Text="Thanks. Sounds very promising. Will have a look at that study!" CreationDate="2020-02-10T20:53:09.697" UserId="6665" />
  <row Id="12364" PostId="6182" Score="0" Text="Thank you for the information! &#xA;It’s nice to know I didn’t miss anything in the Welsh reading I’ve done so far. I’m still curious where this dark magic idea came from, whether it’s from the post-Galfridian writings of the middle ages or from the renewed Victorian interest in Arthur and his court, or even from later retellings. The thought of searching for the source in all that material is daunting! So I appreciate all you could tell me." CreationDate="2020-02-16T09:14:41.193" UserId="6040" />
  <row Id="12365" PostId="6182" Score="0" Text="@MorgenAfallon You're very welcome! And if I ever come across anything else in the future, I'll be sure to update my answer here.  :)" CreationDate="2020-02-16T13:40:40.120" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12357" PostId="6186" Score="2" Text="Hello and welcome to Mythology and Folklore! Your answer has a great start but we is it possible to elaborate a little bit further on this answer?" CreationDate="2020-02-15T01:15:09.443" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12360" PostId="6192" Score="0" Text="The question is looking for the origin and meaning of the specific five symbols displayed in the included image, not vaguely related symbols. The only one of those you provided that is close is the triple moon and even it isn't near close enough." CreationDate="2020-02-15T12:30:08.893" UserId="6683" />
  <row Id="12429" PostId="6204" Score="0" Text="Here are some web articles that explain Cherubim and Seraphim: https://www.christcenteredmall.com/teachings/angels_4.htm , https://www.whyangels.com/seraphim_cherubim_creatures.html , and https://www.simplybible.com/f47b-notes-cherubim-and-seraphim.htm . They note that Cherubim and Seraphim are not specifically angels, but rather heavenly beings. Angels are mentioned independently. Here are a couple of lists of the mention of angels: https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-angels/ and https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/guardian-angels-in-the-bible/ . Even" CreationDate="2020-03-08T09:06:34.360" UserId="6747" />
  <row Id="12384" PostId="6208" Score="0" Text="Thanks for such a brilliant answer!" CreationDate="2020-02-24T19:34:30.907" UserId="6704" />
  <row Id="12385" PostId="6208" Score="0" Text="@J.Smith You're very welcome!" CreationDate="2020-02-24T22:26:58.310" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12391" PostId="6214" Score="0" Text="Are their any other details about this figure you can remember?" CreationDate="2020-02-26T16:32:52.310" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12392" PostId="6214" Score="0" Text="@Dan no that's all I can say." CreationDate="2020-02-26T18:35:03.150" UserId="6712" />
  <row Id="12394" PostId="6214" Score="1" Text="But you're sure it refers to a &quot;Celtic&quot; deity?  I ask because this particular region is historically associated with non-&quot;Celtic&quot; peoples, who assimilated much from other Mediterranean cultures." CreationDate="2020-02-26T22:16:09.943" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12396" PostId="6214" Score="0" Text="@Dan  you're right, it must be Iberian. I added &quot;Celtic&quot; in case there might be a connection with &quot;Celtiberians&quot;." CreationDate="2020-02-27T10:09:54.783" UserId="6712" />
  <row Id="12397" PostId="6214" Score="0" Text="Well, it might still be &quot;Celtic.&quot; I'm just offering suggestions. How sure are you on the spelling/pronunciation? And is there anything at all you can remember associated with him/her/it? An animal? A holiday? Was it tied in some way to a river/mountain/etc?" CreationDate="2020-02-27T10:36:28.787" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12407" PostId="6214" Score="1" Text="This question is driving me crazy.  How sure are you about the spelling?  Can you spell it out phonetically?" CreationDate="2020-03-02T02:35:41.507" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12409" PostId="6214" Score="0" Text="@Dan  not sure about the spelling, but what I've written can't be totally misleading. Maybe something relevant exists in Úbeda museum, which I haven't found online yet." CreationDate="2020-03-05T08:09:27.580" UserId="6712" />
  <row Id="12410" PostId="6214" Score="0" Text="@Dan as I also recall it may be a kind of guardian deity." CreationDate="2020-03-05T08:13:43.643" UserId="6712" />
  <row Id="12411" PostId="6214" Score="0" Text="Yeah, the museums in Andalucía could stand to be more informative on their websites. (Very nice museums from the look of it, though.)" CreationDate="2020-03-05T19:08:26.783" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12412" PostId="6214" Score="0" Text="I've exhausted everything I could think of. If it's Celtic, I'd guess the name contains the elements *-keldos or *kel- and *su-, which might suggest Sucellus. The second part of the word is more obscure to me (whether I take the [v] as a /v/ or a /b/)." CreationDate="2020-03-05T19:12:59.033" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12413" PostId="6214" Score="0" Text="The [uo] cluster is tricky, too. Honestly, this word could arguably be said to show influence from Phoenician or Greek or Aquitanian (all very possible given the region) before reaching the &quot;Spanish&quot; form we're working with here; I wasn't able to find anything definite. Given the length of the word, I'm wondering if it's an epithet rather than a proper name, in which case @Codosaur might be on the right track, or at least have the right idea. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can help you out! :(" CreationDate="2020-03-05T19:25:03.610" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12415" PostId="6214" Score="2" Text="@Dan you should not :( but :) as it's always a joy to engage in earnest inquiry!" CreationDate="2020-03-06T12:03:33.853" UserId="6712" />
  <row Id="13464" PostId="6214" Score="0" Text="Is this deity human-shaped or a being like a dragon or something ?" CreationDate="2020-03-31T06:17:34.193" UserId="6795" />
  <row Id="12398" PostId="6216" Score="0" Text="Thanks for contributing and adding this context!" CreationDate="2020-02-27T21:24:52.383" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="12414" PostId="6218" Score="1" Text="In fact, the livestock connection could be very relevant here. No reason this figure can't be associated with cattle (a chiefly important resource) given the information we have." CreationDate="2020-03-05T19:30:10.720" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12400" PostId="6220" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome to mythology and folklore! I'm not quite sure what you are asking. Could you clarify?" CreationDate="2020-02-28T16:56:33.003" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12401" PostId="6220" Score="1" Text="for any myths that tell a story of how common people reject someone who tried to benefit them. e.g., if prometheus was punished not by zeus, but betrayed by people themselves" CreationDate="2020-02-28T19:31:30.760" UserId="6723" />
  <row Id="12404" PostId="6220" Score="0" Text="I totally recall this subject matter, however it was so long ago I would not be able to answer this." CreationDate="2020-03-01T03:21:44.727" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="12402" PostId="6221" Score="0" Text="yeah exactly people could have chosen between him and murderer Barabbas to be released bu they &quot;followed the advice of the elders&quot;? and didn't choose him. although i feel like quite a lot of people were pro-jesus, but it's the elders and the roman empire which he was undermining that resulted in his crucifixion. but yea, &quot;lord forgive them for they don't knoweth what they're doing&quot;. thx for contribution, and i'm looking for myths in other cultures that can reflect this." CreationDate="2020-02-29T12:41:44.497" UserId="6723" />
  <row Id="12422" PostId="6222" Score="2" Text="It might help to know your grandmother's ethnicity, place of origin, approximate age &amp; other pertinents. The progression sounds folkloric, bit that doesn't necessarily mean this is a traditional tale. She could well have been something of a Storyteller!" CreationDate="2020-03-08T02:30:46.590" UserId="4152" />
  <row Id="13741" PostId="6224" Score="0" Text="I apologise for dragging this question back up. I have removed my answer because i made a catastrophic error. I was originally going to answer your question, so i began typing, but then decided to move to another question in a seperate window, without closing this one. But i went to another window after that and came back to what i thought was the correct window, and i wrote an answer to your question that was supposed to be the answer to the other question in other window. I noticed the error after around 12 hours had passed. Apologies. Thought i should let you know" CreationDate="2020-07-31T04:59:51.583" UserDisplayName="user7122" />
  <row Id="13746" PostId="6224" Score="0" Text="No worries!  Have a great day!" CreationDate="2020-07-31T22:35:09.557" UserId="6731" />
  <row Id="12418" PostId="6226" Score="0" Text="Thank you for your answer. Do you have any other examples of older stories where faeries will not lie? A code of honor may be implied in the fact that Rumpelstiltskin abides by his deal (if he doesn't just tear himself in half out of rage as soon as the girl guesses his name), but I'm hoping to find some stronger examples. On the flipside, fairy illusions (like gold or food) and changelings are very common ideas that imply fairy dishonesty." CreationDate="2020-03-07T12:52:02.493" UserId="5715" />
  <row Id="12421" PostId="6226" Score="0" Text="@Sarah I have updated and fleshed out my answer, top to bottom.  I hope this proves more helpful. :)" CreationDate="2020-03-07T23:50:47.673" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="13462" PostId="6226" Score="1" Text="Thanks, your answer was helpful in shifting my approach. I did track down some more examples, and I think the modern version of this trope was inspired by Katharine Briggs' book, The Fairies in Tradition and Literature (1967), where she cites Elidurus. I just finished writing a blog post about it:&#xA;https://writinginmargins.weebly.com/home/fairies-cant-lie-honesty-tradition-and-the-fae" CreationDate="2020-03-30T11:24:23.227" UserId="5715" />
  <row Id="13510" PostId="6226" Score="0" Text="@Sarah You're welcome -- and that blog post is excellent!  Very informative!" CreationDate="2020-04-09T21:38:40.810" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12416" PostId="6227" Score="1" Text="Welcome to M&amp;F StackExchange!  Not good enough for an answer, but wanted to mention you will also find these referred to as &quot;sea witches.&quot;  Of course, a Google search will eventually bring up the Disney character Ursula, which they say is something called an &quot;octopin,&quot; but I can't find anything else on what octopins are supposed to be." CreationDate="2020-03-06T16:35:56.047" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="13652" PostId="6231" Score="0" Text="I found this very useful. I am following up on several of your suggestions." CreationDate="2020-07-07T17:40:15.163" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="12434" PostId="6238" Score="0" Text="Interesting.  So the &quot;tragic version&quot; is essentially the exact opposite of what the OP described. What happens to the young man at the conclusion of the non-tragic version?" CreationDate="2020-03-13T17:22:25.943" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12436" PostId="6238" Score="0" Text="@Dan This is a fairy tale, so we don't know his eventual fate.  Perhaps he died from hunger the next winter, perhaps he got work in a fast food restaurant and lived the rest of his life in the shadow of the great opportunity that he missed." CreationDate="2020-03-14T12:44:05.920" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="12437" PostId="6238" Score="0" Text="Yes, I realize it's a fairy tale. :) What I meant was, how does the tale conclude once he finds the right field?" CreationDate="2020-03-14T15:05:17.643" UserId="5787" />
  <row Id="12431" PostId="6240" Score="0" Text="I see, seems that this `stealing of fire` was not recognized by Greeks like theft, but as I've mentioned - recognized like another kind of act, feat or something. May be not feat, but not theft, that is why Hermes - is not a god of such &quot;robinhoods&quot;. However, itself - he stole from Zeus scepter not just for fun or self-interest for the sake of.... strange..." CreationDate="2020-03-13T15:19:49.063" UserId="6758" />
  <row Id="12432" PostId="6240" Score="2" Text="@mythoresearcher Zeus considered it stealing, the Greek people called it a gift, Prometheus called it an act." CreationDate="2020-03-13T15:47:58.967" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="12438" PostId="6242" Score="0" Text="Thanks a lot. This is a great answer, as provides background. Upvoted it but didn't have time to make a comment. Waiting for the bounty expiration, but I think this will deserve it. Thanks again for your time : )" CreationDate="2020-03-15T23:06:17.037" UserId="6754" />
  <row Id="12439" PostId="6242" Score="0" Text="This is a question to know your own point of view,as you seem to have knowledge regarding this. Do you believe Minos is the most important judge? (even after the 4th judge was added). Or am I mistaken by trying to choose a &quot;most important one&quot;?" CreationDate="2020-03-15T23:25:48.677" UserId="6754" />
  <row Id="12440" PostId="6242" Score="2" Text="@aran I would not use &quot;most important&quot;. He's been given the privilege of being the go-to for advise or confirmation. Since there is no information on the number of times he is consulted vs number of times not consulted its impossible to deduce the importance of this privilege position." CreationDate="2020-03-16T13:53:15.853" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="12441" PostId="6246" Score="0" Text="Here we go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galdrab%C3%B3k" CreationDate="2020-03-17T08:12:24.847" UserId="5477" />
  <row Id="13586" PostId="6246" Score="0" Text="You could search by the book &quot;Trolldom: spells and methods of the norse folk magic tradition&quot; and maybe this one: &quot;Asatru Book of Blotar and Rituals: By the Asatru Folk Assembly&quot;." CreationDate="2020-05-30T04:20:59.087" UserId="399" />
  <row Id="12442" PostId="6247" Score="1" Text="You might try starting with some of the references listed on the [Wikipedia article on the Seven Heavens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Heavens)." CreationDate="2020-03-17T20:30:10.390" UserId="309" />
  <row Id="12445" PostId="6247" Score="0" Text="Ah, interesting, thank you!" CreationDate="2020-03-18T17:10:55.853" UserId="6763" />
  <row Id="12446" PostId="6249" Score="0" Text="It seems that the Mesopotamians loved this number in general. I have since found another source which mentions the seven heavens made from different gemstones, in a book called 'Daily Life in Ancient Mesopotamia' by K.R. Nemet-Nejat, but doesn't go into greater detail. This seems to contradict what's written in the book you suggest." CreationDate="2020-03-18T20:51:29.530" UserId="6763" />
  <row Id="13561" PostId="6251" Score="0" Text="As below, possible a conflation between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appointment_in_Samarra and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarus" CreationDate="2020-05-18T15:54:07.210" UserDisplayName="user6947" />
  <row Id="14099" PostId="6251" Score="0" Text="It's more often the other way around, viz. Oedipus and Paris." CreationDate="2021-01-03T19:53:17.287" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="12447" PostId="6252" Score="2" Text="The only thing missing here is the prophecy part, maybe it came from a little mix-up with the myth of oedipus? I know that as a kid I woud mix up stories quite a bit" CreationDate="2020-03-20T09:46:37.913" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="13469" PostId="6252" Score="0" Text="Yes it is similar but I thought maybe I was mixing things up. In the one I “remembered” the son was kept in a large property up a hill?" CreationDate="2020-03-31T13:52:32.597" UserId="6764" />
  <row Id="12451" PostId="6255" Score="0" Text="Welcome to Mythology and Folklore! Could you expand your answer a bit?" CreationDate="2020-03-25T08:04:23.177" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13458" PostId="6262" Score="2" Text="In particular can you elaborate on this part? &quot;Tiki was created to kill the off spring of Tane....but Tiki got other ideas... &quot; I'm very intersted to find out more!" CreationDate="2020-03-28T16:09:12.780" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="13460" PostId="6265" Score="0" Text="I guess I was looking less for 'Etymology' and more 'Mythology'.  For instance, Kassandra.  That's less &quot;she who entangles men&quot; and more &quot;seer who was cursed to see the future but never be believed&quot;.  And Persephone being the goddess who was married to Hades, not &quot;murderer/slayer&quot;" CreationDate="2020-03-29T21:20:24.710" UserId="6789" />
  <row Id="13461" PostId="6267" Score="0" Text="Oooh - Eris looks perfect.  She's Strife/Chaos/Discord, she's the mother of Lethe (forgetfulness/oblivion) - and it's a name that wouldn't cause a double-take; it's not hard to imagine meeting a woman that happened to be named Eris, so hopefully the reader won't make a connection to greek pantheon when the subject of a greek cult comes up.  +1, and if nobody gives a better alternative, I'll mark it as accepted tomorrow." CreationDate="2020-03-30T01:45:54.333" UserId="6789" />
  <row Id="13883" PostId="6269" Score="1" Text="I read that the idea children were carried away by elves and a doppelganger left in their place was supposed to be a comfort, &quot;That's not your dead child, but a changeling left instead. Your child is in faery land.&quot; I don't have a reference for that." CreationDate="2020-09-14T14:32:45.590" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13903" PostId="6269" Score="0" Text="That could be true, I can see that as a potential comforting explanation. However, people seem to have acted on the stories in some pretty brutal ways (as in the case of Bridget Cleary)." CreationDate="2020-09-23T22:59:37.153" UserId="5715" />
  <row Id="13904" PostId="6269" Score="0" Text="Good but gruesome example, like most fairy tale deaths (such an innocent term...)" CreationDate="2020-09-23T23:06:33.790" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="14062" PostId="6269" Score="0" Text="Thanks for this answer!  (Accepted formally because you treat several dimensions, and is consistent with my understanding of the fey:)" CreationDate="2020-12-01T22:40:41.747" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14063" PostId="6269" Score="1" Text="PS belated Welcome to SE:Mythology!!! :) :) :)" CreationDate="2020-12-01T22:41:13.227" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13465" PostId="6273" Score="0" Text="Hello and welcome to Mythology and Folklore SE! Any specific dragon in mind?" CreationDate="2020-03-31T10:20:20.253" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13467" PostId="6273" Score="0" Text="No not really, i know the Norse dragons and their mythology (of which i wonder how much it is tainted by later christian worldview). What is the name of the dragons on the stave churches and the dragons on the ships ?" CreationDate="2020-03-31T10:37:01.273" UserId="6795" />
  <row Id="13484" PostId="6275" Score="1" Text="Interesting links, and what a bold attempt at linking them with &quot;Pecosuosucivo&quot; based only on &quot;Pe&quot;!" CreationDate="2020-04-02T07:00:54.520" UserId="6712" />
  <row Id="13485" PostId="6275" Score="0" Text="If the exact name is unknown, look for similar names . i do not know the etymology of these deity names,  i will check this" CreationDate="2020-04-02T14:43:14.923" UserId="6795" />
  <row Id="13471" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="What i think is strange is that Jörmungandr, is said to encircle Midgard ouroboros-like and in addition that Jörmungandr is poisonuous. In a more accurate interpretation of Norse (and also Indo-European) mythology, in that dragons or serpents are affirmative beings, Jörmungandr encircles Yggdrasil, the entire cosmos. The meaning of this is that the Indo-Europeans thought the universe to be eternal and always renewing. As i think that dragons and serpents are affirmative symbols it is strange to link them to poison and death like it is done in the christianized version of Norse mythology" CreationDate="2020-03-31T15:47:34.430" UserId="6795" />
  <row Id="13472" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="First of all, if for once we would take the words and works of Snorri Sturlasson and his bardic lineage as an expression of integrity, rather than symptoms of vicarious intentions, we will find a pride referencing the intercultural dimensionality of the Norse sagas, wisdom, perception and cult-practices. The Norse calendar, for instant, draws upon a finno-ugric traditon. Snorre is referencing the Aenead, explaining that Aeneas is identical to Oðinn' and Greeth's son Viðareu. The metempsychotic element is superimportant I think. Ethnic identification is primarily by manners, bloodlines less." CreationDate="2020-03-31T18:50:37.950" UserId="6796" />
  <row Id="13473" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="When we speak of christianisation, this is most often terribly misleading. I wonder if anyone can document any totalitarian, violent spread of christianity prior to Carolian feudalism. I believe there is proof of it, but haven't found it. Yet, in the earlier, pre-chalchedonian stratas of christianity, the prevailing mood of spreading the Word, is by blending in, and treating the gospel as the grand syncretic integer, bringing all the lost tribes back home to the hope of the Promised Land." CreationDate="2020-03-31T19:15:40.383" UserId="6796" />
  <row Id="13474" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="At least the pre-Nicean christians regard themselves as true Jews, although distinquishing themselves ideologigially from Jews anchoring their Jewishness in Blood &amp; Soil. Is not Kvasir eponymous to Khazaria? The huge Khaganate that made Judaism it's religion, buffering between the Byzantine Christendom and Golden Age Baghdad Khalifate. Snorre is surely aware of the expansion of Gardarike (King Sveinald /Prince Sviatoslav I) on the expanse of the Khazarians. The Norse is a compound, with the first strata of humans being Youthunns, thereupon Finns and Quéns, if we read the Orkneyar Sagas." CreationDate="2020-03-31T19:20:00.383" UserId="6796" />
  <row Id="13475" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="The premise is to regard the supernatural beings, Vanir, Æsir, Youthunns, Elves as humans, or avatars of different populations, as suggested in particular by the scaldic tradition of the Icelanders in exile from the feudalism of the royal House Ynglings in alliance with the House of Wessex who unified England, as well as the House of Liudolfingers! The Elves and the Goðs, are explained by the story of the grandson's of Nór, the eponymous anchestor of Norway, and Norse, through his son Raumœ. Two of his sons, Finn &amp; Brand become Finn-elf &amp; Goð-brand, following the Joþunn-Goþ-Elf alliance." CreationDate="2020-03-31T19:47:58.360" UserId="6796" />
  <row Id="13476" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="The third son of Raumœ, Bjørn (Bear) stays with the Motherline, becoming Joþunn-bear upon initiation. This whole saga begins in the upper north, with the very instituting of the midwinter-bloþ, by Þorrœ of Youthland. He got three kids: Gói the big sister, extremely beautiful, yet merely an adolescent, disappears during the heydays of the bloþ in Gandrwich. This prompts the brothers to search for her, but they're simply not yet old enough, until three winters, I believe. Nór travels by land, whose ways are called the Nórway, his brother travels by sea. Strangely I've never heard of Górway." CreationDate="2020-03-31T19:59:44.360" UserId="6796" />
  <row Id="13477" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="It's a fascinating story with a surprising end. It, in danger of spoiling, results with a junction of the House of Þorre with the House of Svaðe. This House is a branch of the Scyldings centred upon Lejre in Zealand, related to both Wagner's Ring-cycle and Shakespeare's Hamlet. The Norse milieu spans from the Black Sea to the Varangian north, encompassing the Langobardians, Burgundians and Rugians, Swedes, Danes and Geats. Not merely in its geography, of course, but as compound of identities. Snorri identifies Prince Tros, with Þorr, the one with the hammer, as son of King Memnon of Ethiopia." CreationDate="2020-03-31T21:03:53.283" UserId="6796" />
  <row Id="13478" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="What prompted me to this exegesis was the notion of a dichotomic mindset in stead of perceiving (magnetic-like) fields of bipolarity. The pride of the Norse scaldic tradition was to encompass both the Asian East and the European, even seeing themselves as fascilitating the peace between the Greek Danoi and the Hetittic Trojans, although that may have spurred some arrogance and aristocracy as well. Anyhow, there are no purity of races. It is evident that the saga resources that didn't build the modern national identity of the Scandinavians in the 19th Century, is far less known, even today." CreationDate="2020-03-31T21:18:47.720" UserId="6796" />
  <row Id="13479" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="In spite of common notions, the Samis are as Norse, more so if we relate to to Nór's saga than are the common blend of Norwegians (I'm Norwegian). The challenge is that the Sami's are identified with Þrolls and Þrælls, Youþunns and Hrisir. Closer reading of the Sagas themselves reveal that they are tremendously more complex and very much human, than both folk and common perception tells, yet also the translations into modern Scandinavian are sometimes a study in derogatory perceptions. &#xA;&#xA;Back to the Judeo-christian notion of the snakes, or lindworm.... Let me finally conclude.." CreationDate="2020-03-31T21:34:21.650" UserId="6796" />
  <row Id="13480" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="Christians identifying evil with the snake commits a terrible exegetic mistake. &#xA;Yet the Snake became a methonym - a pars et toto-symbol - of idolatry. God told Moses to erect an Ashera Pole with a brazen snake (or two along, like the staff of Hermes)." CreationDate="2020-03-31T22:14:26.473" UserId="6796" />
  <row Id="13481" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="It , the artwork, is called Necchas Necchesatan in the second Book of Kings, I think. The Holy Person of the Spirt told Moses to do it in order so that Israelites who saw the impressive figure, also adorning the Holy Arc would be protected from dying from the bites of the &quot;fiery serpents&quot;, which inevitably was released as consequence of their antagonisms against Moses, and abuse of the Holy name of the Personalities. Yet during the wicked rule of King Ahaz this became perversly fetishized, thus his son, a true Melkitzadik, a just king, dismantles it in concord with the allbirther." CreationDate="2020-03-31T22:14:39.360" UserId="6796" />
  <row Id="13482" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="The name of the world-serpent, Jórmundgandr is amazingly fascinating in this context. Recall the name of the World tree, among several in the Norse texts, is Yggdrasill, which is understood as Ygg's Stud. Ygg is explained, in the Grimnesmeal, I think, as Oðinn's name in the age before he became Oðinn. The Drasill may not be simply identical to Oðinns 8 footed horse, Sleipnieu, although yes, but rather the image of a whole lot becoming one, a Drove of Horses. I believe Yggdrasill is no less than the whole Drove of Ygg." CreationDate="2020-03-31T22:49:14.883" UserId="6796" />
  <row Id="13483" PostId="6278" Score="0" Text="Ygg, I see as an auger, a drill, closely related to the name of Oðinn in the shape of a snake, Bólwork (Snakepitworker and Bottleworker). I could go on.. &#xA;Well, let me sum it up with this last piece of information. The Jórmundgandr serpent is amazing. Jór is horse, although something about it, of course. Mund, is Time, more in terms of appointed time than chronological time, yet all time is Mund. A word encompassing both World and Time,(cf. mundus) similar to the Hebrew Olam. Gand, is the magick hrod (cf. Gandalf), but as with the snake-wand of Moses, the word signifies the wiz of spells." CreationDate="2020-03-31T23:03:49.883" UserId="6796" />
  <row Id="13490" PostId="6287" Score="1" Text="Hello and welcome to Mythology and Folklore! which sources have you found already? This makes sure we don t go over the same sources you have already had." CreationDate="2020-04-03T23:03:28.607" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13496" PostId="6290" Score="0" Text="Thanks, that solves it!" CreationDate="2020-04-04T15:09:49.820" UserId="6808" />
  <row Id="13501" PostId="6293" Score="4" Text="IIRC Maia was the oldest of the Pleiades so that could have something to do with it" CreationDate="2020-04-06T16:04:12.907" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13502" PostId="6293" Score="2" Text="@Tom She was the oldest, yes. I've been kind of wondering if the &quot;leader&quot; bit was somehow a mistranslation of &quot;oldest&quot;. It can't be anything to do with the stars, Maia is pretty much in the middle of that cluster so can't be the first to either rise or set." CreationDate="2020-04-06T19:35:35.263" UserId="6394" />
  <row Id="13506" PostId="6293" Score="2" Text="I was thinking the same. I'll use an example from Roman times. Germania Superior means Upper Germania. A superior can also be an individual or position at a higher level in the hierarchy than another (a &quot;subordinate&quot; or &quot;inferior&quot;), and thus closer to the apex.  Also being a firstborn has always had certain advantages throughout history. I will be watching this question with interest and hope I or someone else will find and answer." CreationDate="2020-04-07T16:58:01.040" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="16234" PostId="6294" Score="0" Text="&quot;When you look up the root Greek used...it implies (&quot;from hell&quot; or &quot;evil&quot;).&quot; Can you provide that information?" CreationDate="2023-01-05T20:00:48.683" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16235" PostId="6294" Score="0" Text="I also edited out the theological musings, as they're off-topic here. They are perhaps more suited to the [Christianity site](https://christianity.stackexchange.com/), but I'm not familiar with their rules." CreationDate="2023-01-05T20:02:57.590" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="13497" PostId="6295" Score="3" Text="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lech,_Czech,_and_Rus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wielkopolska_Chronicle" CreationDate="2020-04-06T10:57:33.037" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13504" PostId="6300" Score="3" Text="Hi. In what context did you see this? What makes you think that this isn't some modern imaginative variant? For example https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/6132/what-does-these-runes-say" CreationDate="2020-04-07T14:57:06.783" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="13505" PostId="6300" Score="1" Text="I can notice 3 kinds of symbols (anarchy, venus or gold, and silver or the crescent moon of Islam) in an overal feel of a Ægishjálmur or Vegvísir. I'll write an answer on it when I get home. But I can say with reasonable certainty that this is not Icelandic. I think it's probably imagined by the artist like @Spencer mentioned." CreationDate="2020-04-07T15:47:56.507" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13507" PostId="6300" Score="1" Text="@Spencer I saw a tattoo of this symbol and I was curious about it but after much searching I could only find it in one place online https://www.crushpixel.com/stock-vector/futhark-norse-island-viking-symbol-880341.html" CreationDate="2020-04-07T20:03:04.317" UserId="6825" />
  <row Id="13508" PostId="6300" Score="1" Text="@Fiona your link answered your question. Futhark Norse island and Viking symbol set Imaginary magic letters in hand drawing and writing symbols Inspired by ancient Iceland and ethnic Norse Viking Vector" CreationDate="2020-04-08T07:37:25.190" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13959" PostId="6304" Score="2" Text="I see no support of A for anarchy as a Norse symbol, but as the question relates to a tattoo, it's a good guess.  (However you should clarify this in your answer, which right now is could be construed as misleading...)  Note that the crescent can also be a symbol of bull's horns, but, based on the combination of symbols, moon is probably intended here." CreationDate="2020-10-16T00:20:06.250" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="16231" PostId="6316" Score="0" Text="They may not be consistent.  Folklore seldom is." CreationDate="2023-01-01T00:24:27.473" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="16018" PostId="6322" Score="0" Text="The list of *ME*s on the Wikipedia page comes from [Kramer (1963)](https://archive.org/details/sumerianstheirhi00samu/page/116/mode/2up), whose list in turn comes from the tale of [Inanna and Enki](https://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.3.1&amp;charenc=gcirc), which I believe is indeed the main primary source. Unfortunately it gives very little context: the relevant portions are just lists of names of things. And even those are [very terse in the original text](https://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=c.1.3.1&amp;display=Crit&amp;charenc=gcirc&amp;lineid=c131.I.1#c131.I.1)." CreationDate="2022-06-20T13:55:13.940" UserId="309" />
  <row Id="16020" PostId="6322" Score="0" Text="And also incomplete—there are plenty of lacunae in the story of Inana and Enki. I'm not aware of any analysis more recent than Kramer." CreationDate="2022-06-21T22:58:09.437" UserId="4022" />
  <row Id="13584" PostId="6326" Score="2" Text="The first image is pretty similar to this one: https://journals.openedition.org/nuevomundo/docannexe/image/69281/img-5-small480.jpg&#xA;&#xA;The being has the same two animal tails, the arms are in similar positions, and there's a certain similarity in the headdress.&#xA;&#xA;I extracted this image from an article whose author analyzes the characteristics of animals present in representations of the gods on middle horizon and later pre-hispanic painted funerary textiles from the peruvian coast [1]&#xA;&#xA;I'll put the reference in another comment..." CreationDate="2020-05-30T04:09:58.230" UserId="399" />
  <row Id="13585" PostId="6326" Score="1" Text="Reference:&#xA;[1] KARADIMAS, Dimitri. Monkeys, Wasps and Gods: graphic perspectives on middle horizon and later pre-hispanic painted funerary textiles from the peruvian coast. Nuevo Mundo Mundos Nuevos, [s.l.], jul. 2016. Available in: https://doi.org/10.4000/nuevomundo.69281." CreationDate="2020-05-30T04:10:27.613" UserId="399" />
  <row Id="13528" PostId="6329" Score="3" Text="The required xkcd link: https://xkcd.com/593/" CreationDate="2020-04-22T17:35:22.070" UserId="4761" />
  <row Id="13526" PostId="6330" Score="0" Text="Welcome to Mythology and Folklore SE! Very interesting answer, adding sources would make it even greater!" CreationDate="2020-04-21T18:19:25.847" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13531" PostId="6335" Score="0" Text="Knowing its history doesn't mean it can't be mythical. George Washington became mythical while still in living memory" CreationDate="2020-04-26T20:49:47.833" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="13532" PostId="6335" Score="1" Text="Certainly legendary!  But to the point, I don't think V.M. has attained the critical mass, if you will, to have accreted much viable folklore around itself.I mean, the semi-legendary stories I've read about it in the past, are probably more or less true. Particularly the one about its connexion to alchemy.; it seems that one of the owners was, indeed, an alchemist!" CreationDate="2020-04-26T21:28:56.213" UserId="4152" />
  <row Id="13597" PostId="6343" Score="0" Text="[Moses](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses#Name) is a particle frequently appearing in [the names of many Pharaohs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharaohs), especially from the [Eighteenth Dynasty](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Dynasty_of_Egypt), several of which bore the name [Thutmose](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thutmose). Hebrews are known to quite often reinterpret elements from the various cultures they come in close contact with. Also, the [flooding of the Nile](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooding_of_the_Nile) contributed to the stories of both Noah's and Moses' Ark." CreationDate="2020-06-06T13:53:55.683" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="13552" PostId="6345" Score="1" Text="It would be good if you provided citations for the Egyptologists who form a &quot;scholarly consensus&quot;." CreationDate="2020-05-12T16:28:42.580" UserId="6166" />
  <row Id="14393" PostId="6348" Score="0" Text="Fun question.  This makes me think of the &quot;Motaur&quot; commercial, where the half man/half motorcycle wishes for the opposite of the standard configuration: https://www.ispot.tv/ad/I4QW/progressive-motaur-wishes" CreationDate="2021-04-20T20:25:48.777" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13542" PostId="6350" Score="1" Text="I just remembered there is a horse-headed deity in Hinduism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayagriva" CreationDate="2020-05-06T19:40:27.890" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14394" PostId="6350" Score="0" Text="An &quot;n&quot; could be added, here I think in the accusative case.  The root of the meaning of [άλογο](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%AC%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%BF) seems to be &quot;without reason or speech&quot; per the &quot;a&quot; prefix with &quot;logos&quot;, to distinguish between human troops and the animals they rode." CreationDate="2021-04-20T20:34:07.397" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14395" PostId="6350" Score="0" Text="Hayagriva could almost be a separate answer, since we are talking about an indo-european tradition, and some degree of contact between the cultures." CreationDate="2021-04-20T20:35:15.890" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13545" PostId="6352" Score="1" Text="There is no historical basis for that assumption. See amended answer. Also, Amenhotep IV/Akhenaten instituted the short-lived cult of Aten, not of Amun." CreationDate="2020-05-08T14:22:45.267" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13546" PostId="6352" Score="0" Text="Isn't the wide consensus that Ahmose I is the farao from the book of exodus?" CreationDate="2020-05-08T22:33:44.060" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13548" PostId="6352" Score="1" Text="The wide consesus among Egyptologists is there was no Exodus." CreationDate="2020-05-11T07:55:43.917" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="16326" PostId="6358" Score="0" Text="I agree! My favorite example of this is in the Brothers Grimm text #47 “The Juniper Tree.” It has always been my belief that no reader of any English language translation of the text in the last 200 some odd years has ever actually been able to understand the text as every German reader has been able to. This is all because of 1 word – “stew.” Ralf Manheim, and Jack Zipes have both translated the German word as “stew.” Only Margaret Hunt wrote it pretty well as “black-puddings”. The actual German words used in the texts are “swart Suur” and “Suur.”" CreationDate="2023-03-24T21:23:27.630" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="16327" PostId="6358" Score="0" Text="Not to get too complicated, but these are German dishes made with the flesh and critically the blood of a butchered animal. What the father eats in the text is the flesh AND THE BLOOD of his son. No English language reader ever know about the father also drinking the bold of his son? How is any English language reader ever going to interpret it? They can’t. Best to always use original sources. I do explain it all in my translation of the text." CreationDate="2023-03-24T21:23:42.820" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="16328" PostId="6358" Score="0" Text="If you read Manheim and Zipes, you have little chance. If you read Hunt's version you at least have a chance at understanding since you can look up what &quot;blood-puddings&quot; are and what they are made of." CreationDate="2023-03-24T21:44:38.137" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="13549" PostId="6359" Score="0" Text="Hello and welcome to Mythology and Folklore SE. What research have you done? I'm afraid this is easily answerable by searching this very site. https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/110/when-and-how-did-the-greek-mythos-transfer-to-the-romans" CreationDate="2020-05-11T19:27:38.650" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13550" PostId="6359" Score="2" Text="Does this answer your question? [When and how did the Greek mythos transfer to the Romans?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/110/when-and-how-did-the-greek-mythos-transfer-to-the-romans)" CreationDate="2020-05-11T19:27:53.637" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13815" PostId="6360" Score="0" Text="Not only that but Mars was much more a war god than Ares ever could be. Athena was the war god of choice amongst the ancient Greeks, while Ares was a savage maniac on the battlefield Athena thought about strategy. And while Janus might not have an exact copy I like to think Hecate comes pretty close to the concept and properties of these two deities.&#xA;Very nice answer btw!" CreationDate="2020-08-14T22:37:55.833" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13574" PostId="6368" Score="0" Text="Could you elaborate on why it was fashionable? Also adding sources would greatly improve this answer." CreationDate="2020-05-25T16:46:11.447" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13576" PostId="6368" Score="0" Text="We have no notion why it was fashionable, we can only see the results.  Even Virgil left no records, and the Dark Age authors certainly did not -- and giving they were claiming it was true history, we could only hope to learn what evidence they claimed for it, which might have simply be falsified in itself." CreationDate="2020-05-25T20:35:02.637" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="13559" PostId="6370" Score="1" Text="Interesting question! Welcome to Mythology and Folklore!" CreationDate="2020-05-16T14:09:26.883" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13569" PostId="6371" Score="0" Text="As far as I can see this is your only post. I am not &quot;nagging&quot; I'm asking you to elaborate on an answer you have given on this Q&amp;A site. What is shown in your picture? Is it possible to use it here if copyright allows? Why is this significant in your conclusion that you think Yggdrasil is the Trojan horse. How do you think Snorri came to this conclusion? Are there any references for this event? Please don't leave an unsourced one sentence one link answer with a link that might go dead in the near future leaving no reference for future readers what you where talking about." CreationDate="2020-05-20T22:57:32.693" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13580" PostId="6371" Score="1" Text="Yggdrasill is Old Norse, so it seems unlikely that anyone would try trace its etymology through French. Also, the PIE root of terrible is actually */*tres-*, not */*tros*. Further, *yggr* is thought to mean &quot;the wet element&quot;, clearly sharing a root with Greek *hygra*. Finally, even if your posited etymology is correct, it seems wildly implausible that Snorri would based anything on modern linguistics that post-dates him by a millennium." CreationDate="2020-05-26T06:08:43.483" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="14014" PostId="6375" Score="0" Text="Similar in what way? A satirical religion? A god composed of noodles?" CreationDate="2020-11-03T23:57:54.170" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="14015" PostId="6375" Score="0" Text="Not satirical religion, one or more movement to  create a humankind god for competition with the already humankind's gods model, in middle-east geography, also i have updated the Question." CreationDate="2020-11-04T11:18:46.590" UserId="6969" />
  <row Id="13578" PostId="6376" Score="3" Text="It would be best if you can flesh this out a bit with more details!" CreationDate="2020-05-26T05:46:03.627" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="13629" PostId="6377" Score="0" Text="[Fossils are more likely](https://www.livescience.com/59837-how-real-fossils-inspired-giant-myths.html). For example, tales of the cyclops may come from misintetpreted mammoth skulls with the large hole in the front for the trunk." CreationDate="2020-06-19T23:14:26.240" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="13581" PostId="6378" Score="0" Text="I know about its prohibition in the middle east, but I like to know about similar movement during the history which have had this kind of features, maybe I must ask in another SE site Which mire related to history?!" CreationDate="2020-05-28T13:50:02.197" UserId="6969" />
  <row Id="13583" PostId="6379" Score="0" Text="Unless it contains an error correcting code" CreationDate="2020-05-30T03:32:39.863" UserId="6900" />
  <row Id="13587" PostId="6379" Score="0" Text="So 25.000 years before we invented writing, primitive man first invented ECC? A correction code is based on a checksum principle, so they also invented mathematics and assigned each phoneme a numerical value? http://www.its.caltech.edu/~matilde/CodingLing.pdf" CreationDate="2020-05-30T09:41:22.170" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13588" PostId="6379" Score="0" Text="People then were just as smart as they are now" CreationDate="2020-05-30T16:01:04.467" UserId="6900" />
  <row Id="13605" PostId="6379" Score="0" Text="@Codosaur human speech _is_ an error-correcting code." CreationDate="2020-06-08T13:06:50.070" UserId="4658" />
  <row Id="13606" PostId="6379" Score="0" Text="Then please show me a study of oral traditions that proves the content is not garbled over a period of at least hundreds of years, let alone thousands. Don't just make statements without empirical evidence. Speech can at the very most be regarded as error-correcting on the *grammatical* level, not on content. And that's not even taking into account grammatical changes and lenition." CreationDate="2020-06-08T14:04:40.390" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14113" PostId="6379" Score="0" Text="I think it depends. Some oral traditions can be very stable when stories are memorized as songs or poems and recited regularly in groups (so errors get corrected); I've heard of studies on religious songs in Asia that can be traced over centuries (but would have to dig out the details...). However that is a special case. The kind of stories that are relevant here are, if I understand right, not meant as historical records but partly entertainment, partly to illustrate some societal norm or useful survival knowledge, so they get adapted and modified continuously to what's relevant at the time." CreationDate="2021-01-06T13:48:20.213" UserId="6880" />
  <row Id="14481" PostId="6379" Score="0" Text="@StephanMatthiesen The studies of Lord and Parry show the opposite. People who claim they are reciting &quot;word for word&quot; the same songs, when recorded on separate days, show substantial innovation in each recital. The tools and formulaic expressions are the same, but there is always some change." CreationDate="2021-06-17T13:04:39.587" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="13582" PostId="6381" Score="3" Text="There's a much more obvious explanation for the origin of trolls. All troll legends originate in Norse stories, and most of them have in that common trolls turn into stone. Norway is geologically rich in stone crags and outcroppings. Just like our pattern-searching brain finds shapes in clouds, these stories more likely originate in seeing human-like shapes in the rock formations," CreationDate="2020-05-29T07:39:44.383" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13595" PostId="6383" Score="0" Text="Thanks, this makes  much more sense" CreationDate="2020-06-05T17:37:43.637" UserId="123" />
  <row Id="13589" PostId="6387" Score="0" Text="Thank you. This leads to the conclusion that Tír Jovincon is a creation of the songwriters, maybe they meant to propose an alternative version of Tír na nÓg? The song is not stating any more details, it's rather cryptic in that respect." CreationDate="2020-06-02T20:17:42.923" UserId="6984" />
  <row Id="13590" PostId="6387" Score="0" Text="There are many Gaelic dialects, I wouldn't rule out that Jovincon is used in one or more of those dialects, but I wasn't able to find it in several dictionaries." CreationDate="2020-06-03T09:41:54.953" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13591" PostId="6387" Score="0" Text="I understand, thank you." CreationDate="2020-06-03T14:47:34.603" UserId="6984" />
  <row Id="13603" PostId="6387" Score="1" Text="Jovincon is almost certainly the genitive plural of the Gaulish equivalent of Irish *óg*, young.  Something like Tiros Iouinkon. Both derive from Old Celtic *tíros &amp; *yowankos (cf. Latin terra &amp; iuuencus)." CreationDate="2020-06-08T08:55:38.960" UserId="4152" />
  <row Id="13592" PostId="6390" Score="3" Text="Hello and welcome to mythology and folklore! Athena was the Olympian of choice among the military. Ares stands for the unbridled rage in the mids of battle. While Athena stands for the tactical aspect of warfare and thinking about your strategy instead of mindlessly running into battle. I'll write a more detailed answer once I'm home." CreationDate="2020-06-04T18:21:27.853" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13593" PostId="6390" Score="4" Text="Does this answer your question? [What differences were there in Greek soldiers worship of Ares and Roman soldiers worship of Mars?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/53/what-differences-were-there-in-greek-soldiers-worship-of-ares-and-roman-soldiers)" CreationDate="2020-06-04T18:42:21.937" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13594" PostId="6392" Score="0" Text="Well, there are versions in which she does make it back, but you are right about Alcestis. But then the question becomes, are we certain that souls in Hades are incorporeal? Would this, plus the torments of Sisyphus etc, would indicate otherwise?" CreationDate="2020-06-05T06:01:47.930" UserId="5225" />
  <row Id="13596" PostId="6392" Score="0" Text="If the question was ever raised, the matter has not come down to us.  However, in all sorts of stories, both the story teller and the listeners tend to assume familiar things even when it's ludicrous, so they just projected their own bodily existence to Hades." CreationDate="2020-06-05T23:05:15.917" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="13598" PostId="6395" Score="0" Text="The Hebrew word אֶצְבַּע אֱלֹהִים miracle, finger of god is not the same as קָסוּם&#xA;enchanted, magic, bewitched, charmed, entraced, spellbound. The OP asked for examples of the latter." CreationDate="2020-06-07T10:59:20.873" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13617" PostId="6400" Score="0" Text="Sumer is a region in Asia Minor, now Iraq, and where Babylon was in ancient times. Why did you think &quot;pagan&quot; meant &quot;European&quot;? We could address that point if you clarify." CreationDate="2020-06-07T18:51:16.017" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="13608" PostId="6402" Score="0" Text="Oh my god, you are amazing. Thank you!!" CreationDate="2020-06-09T01:11:57.857" UserId="6925" />
  <row Id="13632" PostId="6402" Score="2" Text="@JoriRichman I found a version of that story in this book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/48822454-mitos-y-leyendas-inuit which seems to be a Spanish translation of https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10831949-eskimo-folk-tales It matches the one in page 327 of the reference posted here" CreationDate="2020-06-23T13:39:21.247" UserId="116" />
  <row Id="13611" PostId="6404" Score="0" Text="It is an allusion to one of [Bach](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Sebastian_Bach)'s famous compositions, entitled [Air](http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Bach+Air&amp;sp=EgIQAQ==)." CreationDate="2020-06-09T13:48:05.543" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="13604" PostId="6406" Score="0" Text="Thank you so much :)" CreationDate="2020-06-08T13:06:49.973" UserId="6994" />
  <row Id="13610" PostId="6406" Score="0" Text="It also constitutes an allusion to [Bach](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Sebastian_Bach)'s famous composition [Air](http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Bach+Air&amp;sp=EgIQAQ==)." CreationDate="2020-06-09T13:45:15.517" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="13619" PostId="6406" Score="0" Text="I doubt that allusion is intentional, @Lucian." CreationDate="2020-06-11T14:23:55.757" UserId="209" />
  <row Id="13613" PostId="6407" Score="2" Text="Hello and welcome to mythology and folklore!&#xA;Is it possible to elaborate a little more on your answer? And is it possible the picture can be shown here if copyright allows?" CreationDate="2020-06-10T16:15:47.203" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13612" PostId="6408" Score="0" Text="Fascinating! Reading further, the modern Wiccan Stang [might have been influenced by](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/byathameandstang/2016/08/the-stang/) Idries Shah, who wrote about Middle Eastern witch-cults." CreationDate="2020-06-09T21:29:12.990" UserId="6988" />
  <row Id="13615" PostId="6408" Score="0" Text="Note that with Horned One the Wicca's do not mean Lucifer/Satan but Cernunnos, an ancient Celtic god with a pair of antlers." CreationDate="2020-06-10T16:33:08.303" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13623" PostId="6418" Score="0" Text="That makes perfect sense! Thank you!" CreationDate="2020-06-15T19:47:04.923" UserId="399" />
  <row Id="13967" PostId="6425" Score="0" Text="Demeter was the goddess of harvest I thought." CreationDate="2020-10-19T00:36:30.957" UserId="5347" />
  <row Id="13974" PostId="6425" Score="0" Text="@dean1957 your right, Hecate was goddess of magic, witchcraft, etc. Demeter is the Goddess of the Harvest" CreationDate="2020-10-21T09:12:37.100" UserId="7021" />
  <row Id="16158" PostId="6428" Score="1" Text="The Youtube Channel Crecganford made a [compelling video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwDPt1E4_Cg) about how comparative mythology points to a *possible* single origin of dragon myths in Africa. There is no definitive proof, but there is the real possibility that the instinctual fear of snakes kept the dragon myth alive in most cultures as early humans left Africa and spread over the entire world." CreationDate="2022-10-17T11:52:04.400" UserId="9694" />
  <row Id="13639" PostId="6435" Score="0" Text="Oh, and don’t forget The Fisher King (aka Grail King) of Arthurian lore, who has a wound in his thigh that won’t heal. There’s a leg-amputee link in some versions." CreationDate="2020-06-24T19:54:10.767" UserId="7036" />
  <row Id="13642" PostId="6435" Score="0" Text="Hello and welcome to Mythology and Folklore! Very clear written and interesting answer, I hope to see more of your contributions here! I added your comment to your answer and spaced the text a little bit to improve readability. comments can be subject to removal and this way its in the answer itself." CreationDate="2020-06-25T18:43:34.773" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13647" PostId="6439" Score="1" Text="You should specify that this involves Astrology, which is a legitimate form of mythology." CreationDate="2020-07-02T20:55:27.237" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13648" PostId="6442" Score="0" Text="There doesn't appear to be a mention of marriage." CreationDate="2020-07-05T12:40:47.843" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="13649" PostId="6442" Score="0" Text="In many Greek tales, &quot;carry off&quot; implies marriage or at least sexual relations. For example, Homer describes King Priam of Troy giving permission for Helen to be &quot;carried off&quot; by his son Paris, as a reprisal for Menelaos doing the same with Priam's sister, Hesione (an important detail not in the movie Troy)." CreationDate="2020-07-06T11:44:16.537" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13650" PostId="6442" Score="1" Text="That definitely should be edited into the answer, then." CreationDate="2020-07-06T11:49:53.000" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="13659" PostId="6452" Score="0" Text="I had read it was called Hall of two truths because there were two statues of the goddess maat in it, one at each end of the hall. This has been exceedingly helpful. Thank you." CreationDate="2020-07-09T04:44:35.510" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="13664" PostId="6460" Score="0" Text="Definitely very informative and helpful.  Is it maati or maaty for two truths?" CreationDate="2020-07-12T20:31:05.567" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="13666" PostId="6460" Score="4" Text="Two truths is maaty. In Egyptian, as in modern French, Spanish and Italian, all nouns are arbitrarily either masculine or feminine. Thus Per, a house, is masculine while maat is feminine. -wy is the dual ending for masculine nouns. Feminine nouns like maat end with a 't' in the singular and 'ty' in the dual. I regret it is a while since I really applied myself to increasing my knowledge of Egyptian so thanks for this question which makes me think it is time I applied myself to learn more." CreationDate="2020-07-14T19:38:55.937" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="13665" PostId="6466" Score="0" Text="@b a it's a good start. But see my newly edited version of the question, which limits the question to exclude your example." CreationDate="2020-07-14T19:36:36.033" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="13672" PostId="6469" Score="0" Text="[Scientific](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcan_(mythology)) or folkloric ?" CreationDate="2020-07-18T20:01:49.640" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="13674" PostId="6469" Score="0" Text="@Lucian, I originally asked this question in Mi Yodea, where Tubalcain would be mostly considered a literal historical character, and so have made a few updates since it was moved to this site.  The &quot;scientific&quot; records don't even mention what to me seems like a very obvious connection.  Originally I was specifically interested in the Jewish perspective on this, but now that it's been moved (comparative religion is off-topic), information of any kind is welcome." CreationDate="2020-07-18T22:31:38.070" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="13675" PostId="6469" Score="0" Text="The reason they don't mention it is because it does not exist. Just like there's no “obvious connection” between *butt* and *butter* either." CreationDate="2020-07-18T23:38:26.637" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="13678" PostId="6469" Score="0" Text="I'd say there are more plausible explanations within the Indo-European family of languages. The common vernacular use most likely stems from the Latin name for the Greek god *Hephaistos*, which the Romans called *Vulcanus*. Roman tradition maintained that it was related to Latin words connected to lightning (*fulgur, fulgere, fulmen*). Another possible etymology is from  the Cretan god Velchanos, a god of nature and the nether world. In the earliest Indo-European roots, we find that *Volca* could be a cognate of Sanskrit *ulkā* (&quot;darting flame&quot;) or *várcas*- (&quot;brilliance, glare&quot;)." CreationDate="2020-07-19T13:11:59.637" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13681" PostId="6474" Score="0" Text="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal" CreationDate="2020-07-20T12:28:11.600" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13684" PostId="6476" Score="2" Text="Thanks. It seems Math fab Mathonwy derived a certain power from the virgin, then. The Romans considered the vestals a sort of stored-up power, too." CreationDate="2020-07-20T21:28:54.740" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="13686" PostId="6476" Score="3" Text="(Although all the Roman vestals were not perpetual virgins.)" CreationDate="2020-07-20T23:45:09.047" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="16419" PostId="6476" Score="0" Text="This story of Math fab Mathonwy seems very similar to King David and Abisag ([1 Kings 1:1-4](https://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drl&amp;bk=11&amp;ch=1&amp;l=1-4#x))." CreationDate="2023-06-29T21:38:28.343" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="13687" PostId="6478" Score="1" Text="Excellent question! Welcome to Mythology and Folklore!" CreationDate="2020-07-21T09:20:45.593" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13691" PostId="6480" Score="0" Text="Do note that a Vestal Virgin's virginity only seemed to work for c. 30 years after which a new Vestal was chosen. And even then the Vestal Virgins where not always virgins, although selecting a Vestal Virgin without her chastity intact would be considered unlucky." CreationDate="2020-07-21T19:03:54.350" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13692" PostId="6480" Score="1" Text="@Tom Yes, they weren't all perpetual virgins." CreationDate="2020-07-21T22:28:38.310" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="14069" PostId="6480" Score="0" Text="I'm kind of bummed, no one has given a better answer. I did do research for the question, and I think it's close to right. This is part of the problem with ultra-picky demands for answers - I gave an approximate but imperfect answer, got voted down, and yet no one has done better. I've been reluctant to contribute to mythology since then. Let me know if you have found anything more substantial for the question." CreationDate="2020-12-19T19:04:33.520" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="14070" PostId="6480" Score="0" Text="@DWKraus &quot;_Let me know if you have found anything more substantial for the question. _&quot; No, I haven't. What are you looking for specifically?" CreationDate="2020-12-20T04:29:15.243" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="14071" PostId="6480" Score="0" Text="I was just interested to know if you had found answers to your question, since no one else gave one. I was curious." CreationDate="2020-12-20T06:07:55.203" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="14342" PostId="6480" Score="0" Text="I have by chance found a book in a cheap second hand bookstore called : . &quot;Sexual Politics in the Aztec Palace: Public, Private, and Profane&quot;. Anthropology and Aesthetics. If I find the time I'll write up an answer. The book is 23 years old though so it might not be up to date" CreationDate="2021-03-24T08:25:35.820" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="15952" PostId="6480" Score="0" Text="What did your own research reveal, please? Why does such a vague Question deserve tagging with &quot;sacrifice&quot; or &quot;goddess&quot;, maiden or otherwise? Why would there be a binary choice between &quot;virginity as a stored-up power&quot; and &quot;human sacrifice&quot; for civilisation's survival? I only now noticed the date, and does none of that suggest why there have been so few Answers?" CreationDate="2022-05-14T23:36:04.893" UserId="9236" />
  <row Id="15960" PostId="6480" Score="0" Text="@RobbieGoodwin See the last, new ¶ I added to my question." CreationDate="2022-05-15T21:40:14.837" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="15961" PostId="6480" Score="0" Text="@Geremia Oh, good grief|! What could that usefully mean? Were you Asking about what he Conquistadores did to the Aztecs, or quite separately about what the Aztec's view was? Either way, how do you think anything about Mary - or, still, the Vestals - had anything to do with virginity as a concept – or don't you?" CreationDate="2022-05-15T21:47:23.980" UserId="9236" />
  <row Id="15963" PostId="6480" Score="0" Text="Shouldn't this be in the history stack? I'm not seeing any mythological connection here." CreationDate="2022-05-16T12:52:07.070" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15964" PostId="6480" Score="0" Text="@cmw The Aztecs did not have any maiden/virgin goddesses in their mythology?" CreationDate="2022-05-16T17:08:32.173" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="15965" PostId="6480" Score="0" Text="@Geremia Ah, I was thinking religion as more than just myth. So you're looking more specifically about the relationship between myth and religion with respect to virginity, or religion as a socio-cultural expression?" CreationDate="2022-05-16T18:58:52.950" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15966" PostId="6480" Score="0" Text="@cmw Did their mythology have any virgin goddesses? Who were they? What was their role in the Aztec religion? (I only know about their mother-goddess Tonantzin, but I'm don't know if they considered her a virgin mother.)" CreationDate="2022-05-16T19:59:44.270" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="13698" PostId="6481" Score="0" Text="Some chronology versions: [here](http://www.argyrou.eclipse.co.uk/Myths2.htm), [here](http://www.hellenicaworld.com/Greece/Mythology/en/MythicalChronology.html#:~:text=This%20Mythical%20Chronology%20of%20Greece%20depicts%20the%20traditional,the%20analysis%20of%20Apollodorus%2C%20Diodorus%20Siculus%2C%20and%20Eusebius.) and [here](http://www.maicar.com/GML/MythicalChronology.html)" CreationDate="2020-07-24T05:05:04.817" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="13699" PostId="6481" Score="0" Text="Related: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/2666/7095" CreationDate="2020-07-24T05:06:41.723" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="13703" PostId="6483" Score="0" Text="Sort of like Don Quixote. Or better yet, Wile E. Coyote." CreationDate="2020-07-25T13:49:46.987" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="13704" PostId="6483" Score="0" Text="Narcissus comes to mind, but his self-destruction was only the one time." CreationDate="2020-07-25T13:52:17.003" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14075" PostId="6484" Score="0" Text="Is the down vote because people think Judaism is just a religion and not a culture? If that's the reason, then I recommend education..." CreationDate="2020-12-24T18:57:15.817" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14389" PostId="6484" Score="0" Text="I haven't voted yet.  I like the Talmud answer very much, but, having glanced at the Freitas book, I'm not convinced it's a reliable source.  (Perhaps break the answer into two?  My sense of Freitas is that it's a form of modern mythology, based on modern interpretation of ancient text...)" CreationDate="2021-04-20T19:38:37.980" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14390" PostId="6484" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou When you put it like that, I suppose the downvote makes more sense. I'm just a little annoyed that people leave comment-less downvotes. How would people know what they did wrong? So you think I should just erase the Freitas quote?" CreationDate="2021-04-20T19:52:36.523" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14391" PostId="6484" Score="2" Text="Break out the talmud section, and I'll upvote.  I'm not hostile toe Frietas from the standpoint of modern mythology, but check his references and determine how reliable you think his assertions are.  (i.e. breaking down Frietas has value, even if he's an unreliable source, b/c &quot;ancient aliens&quot; is such a persistent modern mythology.)  Regarding the rudeness of the unexplained downvote, don't take it personally—it's a function of social media!" CreationDate="2021-04-20T19:57:40.500" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14392" PostId="6484" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou Done. I'm not an expert on what Frietas wrote, so I'll trust you on this." CreationDate="2021-04-20T20:06:09.140" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="13701" PostId="6486" Score="0" Text="Wow such an amazing and thoughtful response, thank you very much" CreationDate="2020-07-24T10:27:13.100" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="13702" PostId="6486" Score="1" Text="Happy to be of help :-) Welcome to Mythology Stack Exchange. Hopefully you get even further use from the site." CreationDate="2020-07-24T18:45:59.280" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="13712" PostId="6492" Score="1" Text="Please cite the soutce for Nemesis being the mother. It's traditionally Leda, not Nemesis." CreationDate="2020-07-27T22:38:44.540" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="13717" PostId="6492" Score="1" Text="Nemesis laying an egg from which Helen emerged is explicitly mentioned in a handful of ancient texts (e.g. Pausanias, Apollodorus, Hyginus &amp; the Homeric _Cypria_ ). It seems to generally be believed (see, for instance, Károly Kerényi's _The Gods of the Greeks_ ) that, in his _Ars Poetica_ (147), Horace is making an allusion to all the four siblings having hatched from a pair of eggs in pretty much the manner presented by DWKraus, who might or might not want to incorporate some/all of this info into the Question { ... leaving it up for grabs}." CreationDate="2020-07-28T06:29:00.880" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="13718" PostId="6492" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra I've seen slightly different versions, and didn't want to get too bogged down in which myth is &quot;right.&quot; I'm mostly interested in similar stories, but from different cultures/perspectives. Thx. If you think it's essential, feel free to edit the question." CreationDate="2020-07-28T10:24:03.363" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13719" PostId="6492" Score="1" Text="I don't think it's essential myself because, like you, I feel like it'd bog down the Question from its actual intent, which, from what you're saying, I suppose I interpreted correctly. I just thought to throw in support from the ancient mythography since I knew of the version with Nemesis as Helen's &quot;real&quot; mother. But I'm okay with it remaining a Comment since I didn't know how to work it in without likely gumming up the wording up there with dense references &amp; such. [My own personal take on it.]" CreationDate="2020-07-28T16:02:17.350" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="13720" PostId="6492" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra Thanks!" CreationDate="2020-07-28T20:00:34.100" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13779" PostId="6493" Score="1" Text="Thank you! I even read that he has a daughter, Metameleia, whose name literally means &quot;&quot;regret of what has occurred&quot; for those that do not plan ahead will only feel sorrow when calamity strikes&quot; (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimetheus#:~:text=In%20Greek%20mythology%2C%20Epimetheus%20(%2F,Kerenyi%201951%2C%20p%20207).)" CreationDate="2020-08-09T10:56:08.230" UserId="7107" />
  <row Id="13721" PostId="6494" Score="1" Text="Sorry, but &quot;said to have pretended to possess an oracle&quot; - they were known pretenders? Did they not actually believe they had prophetic abilities?" CreationDate="2020-07-28T20:18:42.570" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="13713" PostId="6495" Score="0" Text="Do you have a better source than Wikipedia? &quot;Spanish conquest forced European norms onto the indigenous culture&quot;‽ And it doesn't mention their view of virginity." CreationDate="2020-07-27T22:57:21.350" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="13715" PostId="6495" Score="0" Text="Please see: &quot;[What are good sources when answering questions?](https://mythology.meta.stackexchange.com/q/105/3307)&quot;" CreationDate="2020-07-27T23:47:13.453" UserId="3307" />
  <row Id="13726" PostId="6509" Score="0" Text="I am just going to verify some facts. And should they check out, i would be delighted to award you best answer, provided no-one else comes along with a better answer. If in the mean time you can provide any farhter information, particularly regards to Nekhen, which i will try to verify myself, then please do not hesitate" CreationDate="2020-07-29T18:09:51.167" UserDisplayName="user7122" />
  <row Id="13727" PostId="6509" Score="0" Text="Based upon your incredible output, i have done farther research and updated my own answer. But i have no intentions of awarding myself best answer. I am going to award you. However there is one issue. I feel 4400BC cannot be verified. 3273BC is as far back as i can find verification for. So if you could please edit your answer, to include historical verification may only be possible as far back as 3273BC then i will award you best answer. Unless you can provide a link that verifies 4500bc" CreationDate="2020-07-29T18:24:34.533" UserDisplayName="user7122" />
  <row Id="13729" PostId="6509" Score="0" Text="@StevenIanGall, see [modernized Werner Kaiser chronology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naqada_culture), Naqada I (about 4400–3500 BC)" CreationDate="2020-07-30T08:24:26.713" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="16172" PostId="6509" Score="0" Text="The assertion that predynastic Nile Valley people (Km.t as a centralised nation-state was still non existent) as early as ca.3200 BCE traded with Mesopotamia or Asia lacks emprirical evidence.There are till NO concrete evidences of any trade and cultural exchanges between these peoples which would be visible in similar designs of eg. pottery, linguistic borrowings, shared religious beliefs, bidirectional mass emigration and settlement of peoples in either regions etc. Rather, scholars have often tried to link any African home-grown civilisation to Asia or Mesopotamia as if indigenous Africans" CreationDate="2022-10-26T08:28:30.383" UserId="9721" />
  <row Id="14052" PostId="6537" Score="0" Text="That's just a King's title, a Horus Name, which I've explained in [this post](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/6496/who-came-first-egyptian-pharoah-horus-aha-3100bc-or-horus-the-deity/6509#6509). The title Taurus Bull has no relation to a bull-headed sea serpent." CreationDate="2020-11-27T10:29:00.520" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13781" PostId="7561" Score="0" Text="This is pretty open-ended. How about the wicker man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicker_man) Since it was large and made of sticks? Black stick men are dreamlike (https://obscurban-legend.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Stick_Men) Just a few thoughts." CreationDate="2020-08-09T18:40:04.753" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13801" PostId="7561" Score="0" Text="If you drew it, could you post the picture?" CreationDate="2020-08-11T12:28:51.197" UserId="6166" />
  <row Id="13785" PostId="7562" Score="0" Text="@SeverusSnape What do you mean by &quot;add the verse&quot;?" CreationDate="2020-08-10T07:18:22.577" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="13795" PostId="7562" Score="0" Text="Maimonides' exact words are: ולבובין גזור מלב לפי שהיו נוקבין על לבן ומוציאין אותו והוא מין מעבודת הבעלים (see https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A8%D7%9E%D7%91%22%D7%9D_%D7%A2%D7%9C_%D7%A2%D7%91%D7%95%D7%93%D7%94_%D7%96%D7%A8%D7%94_%D7%91 )" CreationDate="2020-08-10T18:33:15.567" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="13798" PostId="7562" Score="1" Text="Hi @Reb, did you mean the following line? **English Explanation of Mishnah Avodah Zarah 2:3:2**&#xA;*The following things belonging to [...] are forbidden [...] Hadrianic earthenware, **`skins pierced at the animal’s heart.`** [...] If one sees a cut in an animal skin at the place of the heart, it is a sign that the animal was used for idol worship and it is forbidden* [Reference](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Avodah_Zarah.2.3?with=Modern%20Commentary&amp;lang=bi)" CreationDate="2020-08-11T05:26:53.180" UserDisplayName="user7149" />
  <row Id="13799" PostId="7562" Score="1" Text="@SeverusSnape Yes." CreationDate="2020-08-11T07:13:04.713" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="13800" PostId="7562" Score="1" Text="Kindly update your question. Include the citation." CreationDate="2020-08-11T07:16:02.053" UserDisplayName="user7149" />
  <row Id="13780" PostId="7563" Score="3" Text="Sources would greatly improve this answer." CreationDate="2020-08-09T11:18:55.670" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13782" PostId="7564" Score="1" Text="Sol that might actually be it once i did some research into that it kinda makes sense." CreationDate="2020-08-09T21:59:15.347" UserId="7148" />
  <row Id="13804" PostId="7565" Score="0" Text="Hello, very interesting answer, but in Ancient Greece the sacrifice of an animal to a deity of the 12 Olympians, let's say Zeus for instance would be like this: Blood, fat  and bones for the god, the rest for humans. And that's because Prometheus fooled Zeus for a second time, to choose bones, fat and blood instead of the meat and the fur. And that was not a cult. It was a major religion at that time. I will not vote down, but do your research and see for yourself. :)" CreationDate="2020-08-12T14:05:59.643" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="13811" PostId="7565" Score="1" Text="Historically speaking, the word cult refers to a specific collection of rites or worship practices within a religion. In the modern use of the word cult, every religion started as a cult, and most of its rituals stem from this." CreationDate="2020-08-13T07:53:53.653" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14445" PostId="7565" Score="0" Text="Oh that's what you meant. :) Pardon me, being a Greek makes it hard to understand how English words are used sometimes. Cheers." CreationDate="2021-05-14T08:48:17.840" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="13805" PostId="7566" Score="0" Text="So it would translate out to &quot;fishermen jousting&quot; and would phonetically be pronounced &quot;whah wuh ahch&quot;?" CreationDate="2020-08-12T17:42:14.750" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="13812" PostId="7566" Score="1" Text="Something like that, we cannot be sure of the vowels though." CreationDate="2020-08-13T07:54:53.353" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13802" PostId="7569" Score="1" Text="Robert E. Howard featured serpent men in his King Kull stories.  They had had a vast empire that fell with the rise of the dinosaurs, and are trying to rise again.  It's possible they evolved from there and nothing earlier." CreationDate="2020-08-11T22:21:51.660" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="13803" PostId="7569" Score="1" Text="I wonder if people saw the [&quot;lizard-headed&quot; figurines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubaid_period#/media/File:Two_female_figurines_with_bitumen_headdresses_ceramic_Ur_Iraq_Ubaid_4_period_4500-4000_BCE.jpg) from the Ubaid period (c 6500–3800 BCE) in Ancient Mesopotamia, and extrapolated from there?" CreationDate="2020-08-12T01:14:53.810" UserId="7132" />
  <row Id="13806" PostId="7569" Score="0" Text="@sempaiscuba I think Madame Blavatsky references these in her theosophical works, constructing mythology around these in the Secret Doctrine." CreationDate="2020-08-13T01:19:54.417" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13807" PostId="7569" Score="0" Text="A lot of people take this stuff really seriously, and if you google for reptoids and reptilians, Tiamatians,  or Annunaki, You'll get a TON of material, tracing a million different visions of ancient origins of reptilian humanoids. A lot of these assume an advanced culture, but some suggest a more primitive one. Start here. https://ufo.fandom.com/wiki/Saurians" CreationDate="2020-08-13T01:27:17.753" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13808" PostId="7569" Score="0" Text="@DWKraus The problem with those is that conspiracy theories are rarely the ground zero. Many of their elements come from mythology or IRL organizations, like the Frankfurt School." CreationDate="2020-08-13T02:21:23.190" UserId="3725" />
  <row Id="13809" PostId="7569" Score="0" Text="I think the modern lizard man is an amalgam of modern and ancient origins, solidified into the form you're talking about with the first AD&amp;D Monster Manual and Land of the Lost. But if you're looking for absolute origins, I'd go with sempaiscuba and say the Ubaid. Sobek is pretty good, too, though. The Greeks &amp; Scythians have various references as well (a little more current)." CreationDate="2020-08-13T02:41:48.030" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13810" PostId="7569" Score="0" Text="This is also a fun piece of semi-science that fueled a lot of the lizard man tropes of the last decades (https://speculativeevolution.fandom.com/wiki/Dinosauroid)" CreationDate="2020-08-13T02:53:07.730" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13816" PostId="7577" Score="0" Text="As far as the Americas go, the Aztecs believed that Quetzalcoatl was a god of wisdom. I do not find a god of justice among them. The Inuits had the god Issitoq who punished those that violated oaths." CreationDate="2020-08-15T02:54:14.400" UserId="7163" />
  <row Id="14101" PostId="7577" Score="0" Text="I think you've conflated Egyptian with Mesopotamian in your last section." CreationDate="2021-01-04T02:14:12.697" UserId="4022" />
  <row Id="14104" PostId="7577" Score="0" Text="Yeah, I originally intended to put in a line for &quot;Mesopotamian&quot; between those entries. I guess I forgot to. I was originally going to add Anatolian and Persian examples as well but the entry seemed to be getting too long for that. Thanks." CreationDate="2021-01-04T21:14:16.590" UserId="7163" />
  <row Id="13832" PostId="7588" Score="0" Text="Do you have a source or link to this story? The first thing I found when googling was https://www.sechangersoi.be/EN/5EN-Tales/Humminbird.htm" CreationDate="2020-08-20T14:29:38.537" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13833" PostId="7588" Score="0" Text="I also found this link, pretty meager isn't it (this is a personal development site...) ? What I'm looking for is some serious documentation or references to Mesoamerican/South-American legends and tales..." CreationDate="2020-08-20T15:05:09.647" UserId="7179" />
  <row Id="13834" PostId="7588" Score="0" Text="For tales I would recommend Sacred Archives although I have already looked and found only a few references to colibri and hummingbird. https://www.sacred-texts.com/nam/inca/index.htm" CreationDate="2020-08-20T21:40:47.763" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13838" PostId="7588" Score="0" Text="Possibly related to Huitzilopochtli? Huitzilopochtli is often depicted as a hummingbird" CreationDate="2020-08-22T22:46:19.090" UserId="7014" />
  <row Id="13836" PostId="7589" Score="0" Text="This answer is useful. But did story of Vamanan and Mahabali influence the story of Mara and Buddha?" CreationDate="2020-08-22T08:03:10.887" UserId="7181" />
  <row Id="13837" PostId="7589" Score="3" Text="Unlikely. The word *Māra* comes from the Sanskrit form of the verbal root *mṛ*. *Māra* is a verbal noun from the causative root and means 'causing death' or 'killing'. *Vāmana* means 'Dwarf', 'small' or 'small or short in stature'. In addition, even in the eraliest Buddhist texts we find both a literal and psychological interpretation of Mara, so this entity was understood to be symbolic from the earliest era of Buddhism, unlike Vamana in Hindu myth." CreationDate="2020-08-22T09:25:33.480" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13843" PostId="7596" Score="1" Text="Would it be possible to add some sources and elaborate a little?" CreationDate="2020-08-26T12:25:13.053" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13842" PostId="7597" Score="5" Text="Does this answer your question? [Who are the twelve Olympian gods?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/2259/who-are-the-twelve-olympian-gods)" CreationDate="2020-08-26T08:47:24.147" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13980" PostId="7599" Score="0" Text="12 seems to be an important number, and there is some evidence the ancient Greeks were familiar with a [12 month year.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_calendars)  They way it was explained to me is that 12 represents a complete cycle, where 13 is &quot;unlucky&quot; b/c it represents the end of the old cycle, and beginning of the new." CreationDate="2020-10-21T23:16:27.500" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13845" PostId="7616" Score="0" Text="This is more about the evolution of storytelling. This isn't exactly what you're looking for, but might lead you in a useful direction. I don't know. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5763351/" CreationDate="2020-08-28T22:19:56.287" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13846" PostId="7620" Score="0" Text="Maybe this is a stupid question, but wouldn't you be able to extrapolate probabilities based off of a phylogenetic model (because of the fact that evolutionary models make predictions based off of statistics)? Oh also I probably should have done this originally, but I added my motivations to the original question." CreationDate="2020-09-01T18:37:30.680" UserId="7204" />
  <row Id="13847" PostId="7620" Score="0" Text="Added response to your motivations and question to my answer" CreationDate="2020-09-02T12:50:47.867" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13861" PostId="7620" Score="0" Text="Thank you, I was unaware that phylogenetic models work through language features, I only heard of it and saw words like 'bayesian' along with it, so I made a mistaken assumption.&#xA;&#xA;Also, good point that the 'unusual event'  criterion is redundant. As for the other two, I was thinking about putting in parenthesis the fact that the second one limits you to founding stories of religions, despite that not being an important factor to me, and the third one basically limits you to the Ten commandments. (If you are wondering why I care, look up the kuzari principle, which is what I was researching)" CreationDate="2020-09-04T17:14:53.713" UserId="7204" />
  <row Id="13863" PostId="7620" Score="0" Text="There were no direct witnesses to the supposed origin of the 10 commandments besides Mozes,,so that myth also does not qualify to your third motivation." CreationDate="2020-09-05T08:58:56.003" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13851" PostId="7625" Score="0" Text="they all relate to each other in multiple ways, and the context would be very important. I'd start with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titans_(mythology) and see what makes sense. The Titans were the first gods, overthrown (conquered?) by the later gods (who are sometimes also called Titans...). Tiberinus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberinus_(god) who's parents were Titans, is a river god of the Tiber, who is said to have protected Romulus and Remus (the founders of Rome). Exactly which conquest is involved is guesswork." CreationDate="2020-09-03T19:11:36.433" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13853" PostId="7625" Score="0" Text="The Romans were obviously [conquerors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire); as for the titans, well, [Denzel Washington](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9VDrVs3CJE&amp;t=42) did a better job at explaining it than I ever will." CreationDate="2020-09-03T21:56:13.750" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="13854" PostId="7625" Score="1" Text="@DWKraus The titans where not the first gods. The titans overthrew the primordial gods and then get overthrown by the Olympians. Ouranos prophesied the fall of the Titans and the punishments they would suffer for their crimes, a prophecy brought to fruition by Zeus and others who deposed and cast them into the pit of Tartaros." CreationDate="2020-09-04T07:29:25.580" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13855" PostId="7625" Score="0" Text="Simply asking your manager what these things have in common is not possible? Since the answer to the question depends on what your manager thinks they have in common. If this commonality is based on a wrong interpretation by your manager we can never make an appropriate answer." CreationDate="2020-09-04T07:34:32.853" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13856" PostId="7626" Score="1" Text="Thank you, I knew there was something like this, but couldn't remember the exact details." CreationDate="2020-09-04T11:43:37.157" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13858" PostId="7626" Score="0" Text="That could be, but I don't remember Heracles conquering Rome. Do you have a link for that please?" CreationDate="2020-09-04T12:53:58.317" UserId="5594" />
  <row Id="13862" PostId="7626" Score="0" Text="IIRC it was in one of the 12 works of Hercules where he defeats a fire-breathing giant that occupied the Palatine Hill, the center fill of the Seven Hills of Rome," CreationDate="2020-09-05T08:51:58.900" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13877" PostId="7626" Score="1" Text="@gsamaras This may have been a side-quest for Hercules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_in_ancient_Rome He drove Geryon's cattle over the Aventine hill and battled the giant Cacus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacus" CreationDate="2020-09-11T23:51:10.207" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13878" PostId="7626" Score="0" Text="Thanks a lot @DWKraus for commenting on my question, despite its negative score.:)" CreationDate="2020-09-12T00:35:29.940" UserId="5594" />
  <row Id="13879" PostId="7626" Score="1" Text="@gsamaras don't stress too much about negative scores around here. The history site is even worse. Mostly it's because people expect evidence of research, but this question would be hard to piece together the disparate elements." CreationDate="2020-09-12T00:38:06.903" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="14125" PostId="7626" Score="0" Text="Hello Codosaur, this question keeps getting downvoted, strongly signaling me that my post is poor quality for this site. I tried deleting it, but I cannot, unless you delete your, very good, answer." CreationDate="2021-01-13T22:16:39.593" UserId="5594" />
  <row Id="13865" PostId="7627" Score="0" Text="Son of Morning is a reference to lucifer, the light-bringer or Morning star https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer#:~:text=The%20translators%20of%20this%20version,%2C%20%22light%2Dbringing%22." CreationDate="2020-09-06T05:34:26.820" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13864" PostId="7629" Score="0" Text="What does “son of morning” mean? What it could mean?" CreationDate="2020-09-06T04:28:33.330" UserId="7219" />
  <row Id="13866" PostId="7629" Score="1" Text="The name &quot;Lucifer&quot; literally means  &quot;light-bearer&quot;, and can refer to the morning star (Mercury).&#xA;As that light can be seen just before sunrise, as a small version of the sun, it can be considered a child of the dawn.&#xA;Symbolically, stars usually refer to angels (e.g. Job 38:7 &quot;*When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy*&quot;, and Rev 1:20 &quot;*The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches*&quot;.)" CreationDate="2020-09-06T12:50:41.470" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="13869" PostId="7631" Score="0" Text="WOW. That is an answer and a half. Thank you." CreationDate="2020-09-06T18:52:45.190" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13870" PostId="7631" Score="0" Text="It actually almost didn't all fit in there w/ the word-count limit x-D ; you're most welcome, though." CreationDate="2020-09-07T07:13:03.753" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="13872" PostId="7633" Score="4" Text="Your question is unclear.  Are you talking about geomancy?  Could you please clarify." CreationDate="2020-09-07T17:48:44.567" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="13873" PostId="7633" Score="0" Text="I am far from an expert in the field, but a colleague of mine has been studying this area and come to the conclusion that the commonality of Dragon myths amongst the great civilisations, were all based on mans relationship to the landscape. As I have looked into this further I came across a fair amount about Geomancy but have no direct connection." CreationDate="2020-09-08T14:19:16.907" UserId="7225" />
  <row Id="13890" PostId="7633" Score="1" Text="What exactly are you looking for, a dragon that created the whole universe, a dragon that created the earth, a dragon that created a specific landscape or one that destroyed everything and that became later the world we know today?&#xA;I think all of them would answer your question so it makes your question too broad.&#xA;I would also suggest you to show your actual research, any link that you found yourself on that subject" CreationDate="2020-09-16T13:32:56.613" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="13900" PostId="7633" Score="0" Text="I’m most grateful to you for your response. . I’m looking for all source material where Dragons created this world and landscaped the mountains and valleys - a commonality of dragons being the elemental originators of creation. The Chinese have Yinglong, the dragon that literally created the Yellow river, with her tail (and the help of the Kings men) The life giving force from which sprung all the benefits of controlled agriculture, even the birth of the canals. One could even go so far as to say that taming of the Yellow River was the birth of civilisation.." CreationDate="2020-09-17T14:41:03.493" UserId="7225" />
  <row Id="13901" PostId="7633" Score="1" Text="The Red Dragon of Wales I’ve understood is synonymous to the Gower pinnacular, (known as ‘worms head’) here it as if the Dragon literally is the landscape -peel back the skin, the soil is oxidised red by years of volcanic activity, could well explain why the Welsh Dragon is Red. the most important myth in the Rig Veda, the myth of Indra, narrates the battle against Vitra, the gigantic dragon who held back the waters, which when released created the oceans  and the birth of creation. I don’t have any links that I could actually share I wish I did…is that good start Much appreciated M" CreationDate="2020-09-17T14:41:28.070" UserId="7225" />
  <row Id="13874" PostId="7635" Score="0" Text="Thank you for this" CreationDate="2020-09-08T14:19:46.893" UserId="7225" />
  <row Id="13876" PostId="7636" Score="1" Text="Where have you searched yourself? This avoids us going over the same sources" CreationDate="2020-09-10T19:31:06.330" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13882" PostId="7636" Score="0" Text="I recently read a book called Mythos. It mentions that cupid liked a girl and made her his bride. But her jealous sisters made her suspect him (a little more complex than this) and then he leaves her. So then she goes to her sisters and tells them that he would rather be with them than her, ultimately killing them (individually)..  cant recall about killing the lover in the story." CreationDate="2020-09-13T20:08:57.483" UserId="7243" />
  <row Id="13884" PostId="7640" Score="2" Text="Off the top of my head I can think of a dozen or so.  What specifically are you after?" CreationDate="2020-09-15T15:45:18.290" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="13885" PostId="7640" Score="0" Text="I just am looking for these kind of figure... I want to compare them. Mostly I am interested on what kind of ‚process‘ they were watching over." CreationDate="2020-09-15T15:50:05.983" UserId="7247" />
  <row Id="13886" PostId="7640" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka if you can throw in some names that would be great" CreationDate="2020-09-15T15:50:39.273" UserId="7247" />
  <row Id="13887" PostId="7640" Score="1" Text="Where have you searched already? This avoids us going over the same sources" CreationDate="2020-09-16T08:23:47.833" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13889" PostId="7640" Score="0" Text="@TomSol well, I googled quite a bit about ‚mythical creatures, watchers, guardians, etc...‘ but I don‘t seem to find the right wording for a being that only watches and alerts, but has not the task of ‚keeping safe‘. - I am looking really for a figure whose task is to ‚watch and alert‘ but not keeping safe... I haven‘t found _any_ so far. If you point me to a source where I could look it up myself that would be fine too.. or if you give me some key words to google for.. I really tried searching, but I don‘t find anything meaningful..." CreationDate="2020-09-16T13:31:16.843" UserId="7247" />
  <row Id="13893" PostId="7640" Score="1" Text="@Calaom I tried to clarify my question. I looked for guardians and similars - here and on google. But all the ones I find have more of a &quot;gatekeeper&quot; role. They are armed and will protect said process. I am looking for a figure whose job is to _alert_ not to defend... Maybe you could link one of those _many answers_ you are talking about and I just can't find?" CreationDate="2020-09-16T14:43:41.880" UserId="7247" />
  <row Id="13896" PostId="7640" Score="0" Text="@Calaom I see. I tried to already be clear about that in my first attempt.. but it probably wasn‘t clear enough. Anyway, hopefully it is good enough now. :)" CreationDate="2020-09-16T14:54:37.730" UserId="7247" />
  <row Id="13898" PostId="7640" Score="0" Text="@dingalapadum You did well, I can now delete my other comments as they are not useful anymore" CreationDate="2020-09-17T07:06:19.443" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="13941" PostId="7640" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka I would be glad if you let me know about the whole dozen. No lengthy explanations needed. Names + maybe a single short sentence as explanation would be great!" CreationDate="2020-10-12T15:11:52.460" UserId="7247" />
  <row Id="13891" PostId="7641" Score="0" Text="+1. thanks a lot! This one is already really good! The task he has comes pretty close to what I mean, but I‘d prefer of he didn‘t have the gatekeeper task. Like only „watching out and blowing the horn if something happens“. But this one definitely goes in the right direction! Thanks again." CreationDate="2020-09-16T13:36:27.033" UserId="7247" />
  <row Id="13897" PostId="7642" Score="3" Text="Which folklore?  Your examples are British and European, is that your desired locale?" CreationDate="2020-09-16T17:34:22.860" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="13899" PostId="7642" Score="1" Text="I suppose that like with most legends there must be similar accounts of black dogs apparitions worldwide, I would like to know those as well. So worldwide if possible. Outside of the UK I could only find Gaueko (Basque), Oude Rode Ogen (Flanders), Tibicena (Canary Islands) and Dip (Catalonia). Maybe there are some similar stories on other continents." CreationDate="2020-09-17T07:57:09.833" UserId="7252" />
  <row Id="15954" PostId="7642" Score="0" Text="Are you saying your own research led only to Hairy Jack, Barghest and a 1577 Black Shuck of Blythburgh? What, exactly, is is left out in that &quot;etc&quot;?" CreationDate="2022-05-14T23:43:57.447" UserId="9236" />
  <row Id="16211" PostId="7642" Score="0" Text="You may find Mark Norman's book *Black Dog Folklore* of interest." CreationDate="2022-10-16T22:39:27.883" UserDisplayName="user4244" />
  <row Id="13902" PostId="7643" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome, that is a nice question but sadly I didn't find anything relating to cyclops and demons in the Greek mythology websites I know. Maybe it refers to some of the [daemones](https://www.theoi.com/greek-mythology/personifications.html) instead, but if it's the case, you could literally chose any 36 of them, as they all could suit your question. Tell me if you would like a proper answer on this, as I don't really have the time at this moment." CreationDate="2020-09-18T13:26:26.110" UserId="5541" />
  <row Id="13905" PostId="7643" Score="0" Text="Not sure if this is useful, but Porphyry, when discussing the cave of the Nymphs, refers to semi-divine beings (with nymphs and the Cyclops and a servant of Pan lumped in here) as Daemons. https://brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789004374980/BP000005.xml  https://unhistoryofreligion.blogspot.com/2019/03/porphyry-of-tyre-5-daemons-and.html No link to destroying 39, though." CreationDate="2020-09-24T23:22:17.207" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13968" PostId="7643" Score="1" Text="Are you asking about demon destruction or daemon destruction?" CreationDate="2020-10-19T07:49:10.837" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14585" PostId="7643" Score="0" Text="@TomSol Apologies for missing this comment at the time. I'm technically asking about destruction of 'dimmins', which I assume to be 'demons'. However, I don't know how 'daemons' differ from 'demons'. If you can advise me of the difference I may be able to answer." CreationDate="2021-08-23T14:56:35.437" UserId="7256" />
  <row Id="13923" PostId="7646" Score="0" Text="https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/16852/is-the-story-of-a-divine-miracle-at-mt-sinai-witnessed-by-a-national-audience related. I recommend checking out the first answer in particular." CreationDate="2020-10-07T20:23:56.527" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="13907" PostId="7648" Score="1" Text="very interesting! I'll look up the book." CreationDate="2020-09-28T08:38:01.717" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13908" PostId="7650" Score="0" Text="Thank you very much for that answer, but I'm afraid I must have been unclear. I really should have clarified that by 'story of the ten commandments, I meant the story of the Israelites standing at the base of the mountain while God descended with fire and lightning etc to give the ten commandments, not the commandments themselves. I'll update the question to reflect this. Again, terribly sorry for the misunderstanding." CreationDate="2020-09-29T13:38:24.203" UserId="7204" />
  <row Id="13911" PostId="7654" Score="3" Text="Clearly formulated and well sourced question. Welcome to Mythology and Folklore SE! We hope you stay." CreationDate="2020-10-01T11:31:09.350" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13915" PostId="7654" Score="1" Text="Seconding what Tom Sol says above :)" CreationDate="2020-10-02T02:27:17.163" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="13917" PostId="7655" Score="0" Text="This is a universal theme across multiple faiths. It can arise from a melding of old gods with new as cultures conquer each other, like The Fomorians and the Tuatha de Dann,  It is thematically present in many faiths, though, like Tiamat vs Marduk, or even God as the old testament God vs the new testament God. It represents reconciling the old with the new. Alienating the old is risky, but you want to subtly discredit it to assert the supremacy of a new idea or culture. I'd give this as an answer, but I don't have any references." CreationDate="2020-10-04T16:58:57.393" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="13926" PostId="7659" Score="1" Text="Excellent sourcing!  Thanks for contributing!!!" CreationDate="2020-10-10T01:41:19.213" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13924" PostId="7660" Score="0" Text="Interesting. It seems that etymologically, though, there's no connection between the names. Michael in Hebrew means מי כאל, who is like El (God) while Enki apparently means lord of earth. Gabriel means גברי אל, my courage is El (God) while Gibil apparently means a fire-brand. So your basis is that variants of the word &quot;El&quot; existed in various Mesopotamian and Semitic languages and were consistently used to refer to powerful entities, and it just so happens that there are four entities related to the same two elements (as were many other beings in other pantheons and myths)." CreationDate="2020-10-08T20:07:31.933" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="13925" PostId="7660" Score="0" Text="&quot;El&quot; is a Sumerian &amp; Akkadian suffix meaning high(ness). As you noted, this is also one of the names of Yahweh. The similarity of the pronunciation Gabriel/Gibil is undeniable. And Enki is not the god of the element earth, his name means &quot;Lord of the Earth (the world, not the element)&quot;. He is primarily the god of fresh water. As for Mikhael, the linguistic association is from the West Semitic (Canaanite) way of saying Ea, Enki's Akkadian name, associating the Canaanite theonym Yahu, and ultimately Hebrew YHWH. That is why the name means &quot;like God&quot;." CreationDate="2020-10-09T07:24:10.043" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="13927" PostId="7662" Score="0" Text="The word is aes, which means bronze (or copper). Aer is a different word. Ex aere means &quot;out of bronze&quot;. Ex takes the ablative case. Aere is the ablative form of aes." CreationDate="2020-10-10T02:07:49.783" UserId="3208" />
  <row Id="13933" PostId="7662" Score="1" Text="@TylerDurden   Re-amended.  More sourcing and added examples and analysis.  (I will likely be back, as there is a definite association of brightness with fierceness in the Greek Myths (think Apollo's golden darts as the blinding fierceness of the sun, the golden broaches Oedipus stabbed his own eyes out with after Apollo's prophecy was revealed to be true, and so forth.)  A non-pejorative English definition of brazen, in the sense of Spenser and others, would be &quot;bright fierceness&quot;, because brazen means to do something out in the open.  Also associated with horns (trumpets) which blare." CreationDate="2020-10-10T05:19:02.493" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13935" PostId="7666" Score="0" Text="interesting answer. sources would greatly improve this answer" CreationDate="2020-10-11T08:29:39.430" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13947" PostId="7667" Score="0" Text="Great note. Doubly relevant b/c bronze was presumably higher quality than iron at the time, per smelting temperatures, thus &quot;the toughest material that could be forged in the Greek world.&quot;  (I amended after your answer to add the Apollodorus passage—he uses the same word.)" CreationDate="2020-10-14T00:02:42.387" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13948" PostId="7667" Score="0" Text="(Just that insight could easily render this the accepted answer:)" CreationDate="2020-10-14T00:28:47.583" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13957" PostId="7669" Score="2" Text="You may also be interested in the use of horse skulls in pre-modern European ritual: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_skulls" CreationDate="2020-10-15T23:07:03.397" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13937" PostId="7671" Score="0" Text="Okay, I know all of this. But why the usage of horses (and chariots) specifically?" CreationDate="2020-10-12T10:05:52.647" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="13938" PostId="7671" Score="4" Text="To clarify: I'm not asking which deity was worshipped or how this was done, but what was the meaning of the usage of horses in this particular type of worship? Why use horses? In what way were they connected to the mythic character of Shapash that made them more relevant to the worship than other creatures or objects?" CreationDate="2020-10-12T10:36:44.783" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="13956" PostId="7671" Score="0" Text="@Harel13 The [Shapash wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapash) notes that association with horses does indeed seem to derive from their status as chariot pullers." CreationDate="2020-10-15T23:05:56.430" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13966" PostId="7671" Score="0" Text="@DukeZhou so do you think that the Canaanite sun was also pulled around by a chariot/the sun was really a chariot?" CreationDate="2020-10-17T19:19:43.227" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="13978" PostId="7671" Score="0" Text="@Harel13 that does seem to be a common, early conception of the sun.  (In ancient times, chariots were high technology, and utilized by kings.)" CreationDate="2020-10-21T22:18:19.483" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13942" PostId="7672" Score="1" Text="The same can be said for a bottle of champagne failing to break on the first try, and yet we still do this. Sailors superstitions can be very old or very new, but for a superstition to come to fruition there are usually some cases where it happened and sailors told other sailors in a bar or other meeting (not talking about all superstitions ofcourse but I cant disprove the Sirens just as I can't prove it). **Also knowingly pestering superstitious sailors could backfire.** I know I have a book somewhere about this and will try to find it or atleast tell you which one when I find the time" CreationDate="2020-10-12T16:44:25.667" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13943" PostId="7672" Score="1" Text="@TomSol Cool. Thanks!" CreationDate="2020-10-12T16:46:32.660" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="13944" PostId="7672" Score="1" Text="Whistling was supposed to draw up storms in general, not just at sea." CreationDate="2020-10-13T01:00:55.007" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="13946" PostId="7672" Score="0" Text="@Mary I didn't know that. Thanks." CreationDate="2020-10-13T04:07:45.477" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="13951" PostId="7681" Score="2" Text="Where have you searched already? This avoids us going over the same sources." CreationDate="2020-10-15T17:54:32.507" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13954" PostId="7682" Score="1" Text="Reminds me of &quot;fox spirits&quot; in Chinese mythology, who could take human form, and perform all kinds of trickster magic, including necromantic.  Just from reviewing the Nakomata wiki, my sense is quadrupeds capable of bipedal movement.  This makes sense as there is definite anthropomorphization with a cat wearing a kimono!" CreationDate="2020-10-15T22:44:22.490" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13973" PostId="7683" Score="0" Text="So its just called Soul Eaters?" CreationDate="2020-10-20T21:47:18.387" UserId="3336" />
  <row Id="13977" PostId="7683" Score="0" Text="@GabrielBaia That version are called soul eaters, and I'm not aware of other pre-modern mythologies that involve that concept specifically.  But it's a robust concept that has found much usage in modern mythology (fantasy)." CreationDate="2020-10-21T22:16:55.987" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="13964" PostId="7684" Score="1" Text="Since you noted the Catacombs,you might be interested in the Sedlec Ossuary, I have been there myself and the guides told us there was a message that life is short and that the real life (afterlife) starts after the *reaper* takes us. It's very impressive  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedlec_Ossuary" CreationDate="2020-10-16T20:14:42.877" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13965" PostId="7688" Score="1" Text="Hi and welcome to the site, thank you for your contribution. Unfortunately Ganymede has already been mentioned in an answer to this question (coincidentally mine ;) )." CreationDate="2020-10-17T14:43:03.517" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13969" PostId="7693" Score="1" Text="Define evil. Does the word even apply to anything a god does?" CreationDate="2020-10-20T11:24:59.770" UserId="487" />
  <row Id="13970" PostId="7693" Score="0" Text="@RedSonja, I think &quot;evil&quot; is simply used here as the opposite of &quot;good&quot;.  &quot;Bad&quot; would have perhaps been a better choice.  I tend to think of &quot;evil&quot; as appearing to be good but ultimately being bad." CreationDate="2020-10-20T14:06:08.913" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="13981" PostId="7693" Score="0" Text="@RedSonja, in the last sentence I used the phrase 'even in the slightest sense'. Even though each God had good intents I meant to ask if Gaea or Rhea were as bad as Kronos was (or less), which could be determined by their actions only, not their intentions. Thus, by 'evil' I merely meant bad in a way, for example, Kronus was, however it is not necessary to be at the exact extent as him." CreationDate="2020-10-22T07:25:07.453" UserId="7329" />
  <row Id="13982" PostId="7693" Score="1" Text="Then define &quot;good&quot;. Who decides what good is? Or bad? Maybe you need a supreme court of boss gods to decide. But then, who chooses members of that court?" CreationDate="2020-10-22T08:57:45.943" UserId="487" />
  <row Id="13983" PostId="7693" Score="0" Text="@RedSonja, if a God fulfills its' purpose of being then it will be good. Eg. keeping check on normal beings. However, my question over here is related to any evil act or treachery among the Gods, not upon humans. Relating to your questions the Olympians destroyed Kronus to restore balance against the evils he committed, but as Zeus himself lead the revenge he was regarded as highest among the 12 Olympians. Hope that answers your questions." CreationDate="2020-10-22T09:17:29.190" UserId="7329" />
  <row Id="14022" PostId="7693" Score="0" Text="Are the myths even consistent enough to make a judgment?" CreationDate="2020-11-12T13:53:55.250" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14024" PostId="7693" Score="0" Text="@Mary I would just debate over whatever myths anyone has collected. After all they are nothing but myths." CreationDate="2020-11-14T10:14:55.750" UserId="7329" />
  <row Id="15945" PostId="7693" Score="0" Text="The ancient Greeks did not believe that any of their gods, Cronus included, were &quot;evil.&quot; That's a Christian invention. They were operating on a might-is-right model for the gods." CreationDate="2022-05-06T03:08:23.127" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="13984" PostId="7698" Score="3" Text="the Iliad and Odyssey normally say that at the time of the Trojan war he was either 2 or 3 generations old. Never found an excact number though, with exception to various sites on the internet claiming 60-70-90-110 but all without links to their sources.  My thought is 90 if we count 30 years per generation but I don't have any source other than a well estimated guess. Interesting question!" CreationDate="2020-10-22T12:56:12.930" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13996" PostId="7702" Score="0" Text="I've seen lots, but the thing is, the myths and legends are not internally consistent." CreationDate="2020-10-25T17:18:23.023" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="13997" PostId="7702" Score="0" Text="@Mary  They don't need to be internally consistent. Variations are acceptable. Thoroughness of the indexing is what matters." CreationDate="2020-10-26T07:48:32.927" UserId="6712" />
  <row Id="14135" PostId="7702" Score="0" Text="After the comment made by @Adinkra below, to make things clearer, in the text of the question I have changed &quot;index&quot; to &quot;binary index&quot; and &quot;relationships&quot; to &quot;interactions&quot;." CreationDate="2021-01-15T18:36:24.237" UserId="6712" />
  <row Id="14136" PostId="7702" Score="0" Text="Amended my Answer accordingly" CreationDate="2021-01-15T19:10:36.103" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="13987" PostId="7703" Score="0" Text="I considered that explanation as well. I.e. Athens happened to have a city goddess, and they happened to make a name for themselves with “wisdom” and “military strategy”. Given enough Athenian prominence this might also explain why their deity was introduced less organically and not molded into gender conformity. This, however, seems to be at odds with the wiki recount, and I am unsure that Athens was really as exceptional when the pantheon took shape as we consider it in retrospect. And then why didn't every city just contribute its own deity with randomly matched genders and attributes?" CreationDate="2020-10-25T09:31:29.993" UserDisplayName="TheChymera" />
  <row Id="13988" PostId="7703" Score="1" Text="This question is unfounded. Mighty [Ares](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares) ain't chopped liver but rather the true Greek God of War. Athena's *warrior* attributes are secondary to her intellectual attributes." CreationDate="2020-10-25T09:51:30.607" UserId="4192" />
  <row Id="13991" PostId="7703" Score="0" Text="@PieterGeerkens I think the impression of Ares as a chief matial (love the etymology here) god is based on conflating him with the Roman reverence of the god Mars. As best I can tell, for the Greeks, Athena was the go-to martial deity, and Ares was more of a disorganized violence god." CreationDate="2020-10-25T10:05:24.327" UserDisplayName="TheChymera" />
  <row Id="13992" PostId="7703" Score="4" Text="Athena was the Olympian of choice among the military. Ares stands for the unbridled rage in the mids of battle. While Athena stands for the tactical aspect of warfare and thinking about your strategy instead of mindlessly running into battle. In Homer's Iliad he's even called a whining coward." CreationDate="2020-10-25T11:13:23.447" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13993" PostId="7703" Score="1" Text="In addition to Artemis, you mention that &quot;warrior goddess was not at all an uncommon phenomenon&quot;. Perhaps the Greeks' gender stereotypes where not what you think they might, or should, have been?" CreationDate="2020-10-25T11:14:27.623" UserDisplayName="simon at rcl" />
  <row Id="13994" PostId="7703" Score="5" Text="@TheChymera I think you may have overestimated how coherent the Hellenic pagan religion actually was. Athena, in all likelyhood, was a synthesis of multiple prehistoric deities. One aspect of her, it has been argued, originated as a goddess of the household, hence her association with wisdom and domestic crafts. One can readily see how that evolved into guardian of the palace during the palatial period, and from there to goddess of the citadel of city-state Greece. Such roles readily evoke the image of an armed maiden, from whence she become goddess of warfare." CreationDate="2020-10-25T11:31:03.153" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="13995" PostId="7703" Score="0" Text="Gods embody concepts, most of which are abstract nouns. In Romanian, for instance, the words for *beating (fighting)*, *fighting (struggle)*, and *battle* are feminine, as are the words for *knowledge*, *science*, *understanding (skill)*, and *wisdom*; *war*, on the other hand, is neutral. Since both Athena and Athens are ultimately [substrate words](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Greek_substrate), this question ultimately boils down to divining into the grammar of long-forgotten languages." CreationDate="2020-10-25T13:01:28.917" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="13998" PostId="7704" Score="5" Text="Good answer! I feel the hypothesised evolution of Athena as a household goddess to protector of the city is the key here. Hellenic paganism wasn't designed but an amalgamation that evolved over time." CreationDate="2020-10-26T08:29:44.143" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="14002" PostId="7704" Score="4" Text="@Semaphore Thank you. Its probably the best way to explain how a woman could be in a that position in a civilization that moved women to the background (sparta being an exception to the rule). What people usually forget is that a deity doesn't just come into being, there is a long line of tradition and folklore attached to any deity." CreationDate="2020-10-26T15:12:55.007" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="13999" PostId="7705" Score="3" Text="Ragnarok is a **series of events**, including a great battle, foretold to lead to the death of a number of great figures (including the gods Odin, Thor, Týr, Freyr, Heimdallr, and Loki), natural disasters and the submersion of the world in water. After these events, the world will resurface anew and fertile, the surviving and returning gods will meet and the world will be repopulated by two human survivors." CreationDate="2020-10-26T09:02:57.290" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14000" PostId="7706" Score="1" Text="Have you ever seen a spectacular Aurora Borealis? One time and you will understand where and how *dragon* myths originate." CreationDate="2020-10-26T12:54:33.757" UserId="4192" />
  <row Id="14001" PostId="7706" Score="1" Text="The question may technically be different, but I feel that this answer more or less fully applies: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/1051/108" CreationDate="2020-10-26T13:03:50.463" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="14028" PostId="7706" Score="0" Text="d‘Huy, Julien, 2013, *Le motif du dragon serait paléolithique*, that is a French researcher who uses cladistics to study oldest myths (various papers are online)." CreationDate="2020-11-21T22:24:27.920" UserId="4142" />
  <row Id="14007" PostId="7707" Score="0" Text="I am not entirely sure believing a myth all the way from Sumerian times survived and propagated is Occam's razor. Maybe it is, it just seems hard to figure a piece of specific myth would survive that long.&#xA;But we know dragons, at least floating ones, could never exist.&#xA;You point out other myths, which is true, but I feel those have concepts that are more obvious to life - than a specific creature like that. Vampires I thought were more modern. But blood related creatures myths make sense, since blood is as old as life." CreationDate="2020-10-27T02:26:28.330" UserId="7364" />
  <row Id="14010" PostId="7716" Score="0" Text="That was my thought also, your link really ties the answer together. I'll accept your answer tomorrow to give other people a chance to answer. My thanks!" CreationDate="2020-10-29T07:23:37.733" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14013" PostId="7717" Score="0" Text="Some sources count Hades as an Olympian, such as in the [Eleusinian Mysteries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusinian_Mysteries) and the [Homeric Hymns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeric_Hymns) to Demeter.." CreationDate="2020-11-01T06:53:04.797" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14016" PostId="7722" Score="1" Text="To me, this sounds more like a metaphor, rather than pertaining to actual worship of dust. It could be that it is conveying a sense of irony about what they worship." CreationDate="2020-11-04T14:01:23.960" UserId="6166" />
  <row Id="14017" PostId="7722" Score="1" Text="@MatthewMartin at the very least it was interpreted as being literally so by one of the greatest medieval Jewish commentators, [Rashi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashi), in his [commentary on the verse](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Rashi_on_Genesis.18.4.2?lang=bi&amp;with=all&amp;lang2=en). Of course, it could also be argued that Rashi simply took the talmud at face value, but it's equally possible that he had evidence to corroborate the literal understanding." CreationDate="2020-11-04T14:10:44.337" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14018" PostId="7722" Score="0" Text="interesting. I did not know this." CreationDate="2020-11-04T17:47:21.080" UserId="6166" />
  <row Id="14019" PostId="7722" Score="0" Text="To this day, Arabs literally worship by kneeling and then bowing their forehead down to the ground. Since they live(d) in the Arabian desert, the conclusion follows." CreationDate="2020-11-05T11:20:38.010" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="14020" PostId="7722" Score="0" Text="@Lucian are you suggesting that that's evidence in itself or that the Talmud reached a false conclusion about Muslims? The latter would be problematic, seeing as [Rabbi Yannai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi_Yannai) lived a few centuries before the time of Mohammed. In fact, the majority of the Talmud was written before he was even born." CreationDate="2020-11-05T14:30:04.097" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14021" PostId="7726" Score="0" Text="The Kalevala describes a wedding, and how the traditional family roles are connected to it, in chapters 20 to 24. This is, IMO, the most enjoyable part of the Kalevala. I hesitate in making this answer though, because the wedding proper probably doesn't count as mythology. The identity of the husband, and the impossible tasks that he has to perform as dowry, as described in the chapters before, those do count as mythology, but that is not what you're asking for." CreationDate="2020-11-11T15:39:26.197" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="14023" PostId="7732" Score="0" Text="Thank you for this answer. I would suggest not to answer the question with a question, however, you are most welcome to do so in the comment sectiont. I am aware that there are worse deities in Greek mythology compared to Gaea and Rhea, but I have to choose between these two only." CreationDate="2020-11-14T10:12:33.420" UserId="7329" />
  <row Id="14025" PostId="7732" Score="0" Text="So noted, thank you." CreationDate="2020-11-16T17:42:44.973" UserId="5604" />
  <row Id="14026" PostId="7738" Score="4" Text="Accept your own answer too!  That's also allowed." CreationDate="2020-11-19T01:21:23.407" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14045" PostId="7738" Score="1" Text="As a word, it might be related to &quot;gorgon&quot;? https://www.etymonline.com/word/gorgon#etymonline_v_9063" CreationDate="2020-11-26T09:14:47.007" UserId="116" />
  <row Id="14048" PostId="7738" Score="0" Text="Thank you, mrcasals. It's actual root word is گرگ  (pronounced gorg or gurg) which is Persian for wolf. The older Persian language, Avestian, word for wolf is varka, which did spread into norse as vargr (wolf) and werewolf like creatures the vrykolakas (Greek) also known as Vârcolak (Slavic) though considered something in-between a werwolf and vampire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrykolakas" CreationDate="2020-11-26T16:38:50.187" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="14029" PostId="7740" Score="2" Text="Could you add some references as to why you state she is mostly in deep slumber? Main sources such as Hesiod do not include this notion." CreationDate="2020-11-22T10:11:32.417" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14031" PostId="7742" Score="0" Text="I recommend you bring sources for your answer, verses from the Bible, etc." CreationDate="2020-11-23T08:06:52.243" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14035" PostId="7742" Score="0" Text="&quot;As far as you can see&quot;?  Can you provide any justification for this?" CreationDate="2020-11-23T18:12:41.150" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="14033" PostId="7746" Score="2" Text="Your source does not describe the incubus or succubus as draining life force.  While this does occur in modern fantasy work, it is not found in the folklore." CreationDate="2020-11-23T16:35:02.870" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14037" PostId="7746" Score="0" Text="https://mythology.wikia.org/wiki/Succubus &quot;Succubi could suck the life force of men, leaving them exhausted or even killing them&quot;" CreationDate="2020-11-24T07:19:17.613" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14040" PostId="7746" Score="1" Text="Then that site is inaccurate." CreationDate="2020-11-24T15:15:12.220" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14042" PostId="7746" Score="2" Text="Then please provide some links to factual information that supports your claim, not just an opinion. SE doesn't work that way.." CreationDate="2020-11-25T08:28:29.950" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14583" PostId="7746" Score="1" Text="@Codosaur What's the source of that wiki?" CreationDate="2021-08-22T17:53:46.237" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14030" PostId="7747" Score="0" Text="Cassandra's punishment for refusing Apollo was relatively light. Some others were turned into trees." CreationDate="2020-11-23T00:45:30.607" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14036" PostId="7749" Score="2" Text="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reptilian_humanoids#Folklore" CreationDate="2020-11-23T20:33:24.640" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14046" PostId="7749" Score="1" Text="Thank you Harel13, good place to start" CreationDate="2020-11-26T16:15:08.080" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="14044" PostId="7752" Score="0" Text="Part of the definition on wikipedia: However, although the word &quot;drakaina&quot; is literally the feminine form of drakon (Ancient Greek for dragon or serpent), most drakainas had some features of a human woman. Lamia, Campe, Echidna, and many representations of Ceto, Scylla and Delphyne had the head and torso of a woman.  https://www.theoi.com/greek-mythology/dragons.html separates dragons into four distinct categories, grouping drakon as different than drakaina." CreationDate="2020-11-26T05:09:10.167" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="14038" PostId="7753" Score="2" Text="Interesting question and well formulated. Welcome to Mythology and Folklore!" CreationDate="2020-11-24T09:52:55.350" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14039" PostId="7753" Score="1" Text="Sadly, there is never any one idea of anything when it comes to Greek mythology. There are myriad interpretations, and any one is never correct, nor is it wrong." CreationDate="2020-11-24T14:58:23.420" UserId="7070" />
  <row Id="14041" PostId="7756" Score="0" Text="Well Beowulf also killed one so George isn't the only one who can slay dragons" CreationDate="2020-11-25T04:53:05.107" UserId="7439" />
  <row Id="14049" PostId="7757" Score="1" Text="Always found this legend weird. How a  Babylonian legendary December 25 date in a solar calendar was the same as in their lunar calendar. It makes no sense. Many people use this Legend to make the celebration of Christmas to be a pagan feast!" CreationDate="2020-11-25T21:38:32.210" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="14053" PostId="7759" Score="0" Text="This is a good answer for the topic mentioned in the question, but unfortunately it has nothing to do with the question itself. ¶ I was expecting answers along the line of &quot;*That's the first edition 1898. The second edition 1926, does contain the quotation.*&quot; or even &quot;*In 1953, B. Adguy published the &quot;True Truth&quot; booklet in which he made up that quotation and gave it a believable citation. Since then, many others have been copying it whole without fact checking.*&quot;." CreationDate="2020-11-28T14:33:03.620" UserId="7097" />
  <row Id="14084" PostId="7766" Score="0" Text="Perhaps Pandora from Pandora’s box? Pandora definitely was naive and curious, but her opening the box out of her burning curiosity led to ultimate failure, as the evil spirits escaped the box." CreationDate="2020-12-31T17:50:20.483" UserId="7547" />
  <row Id="14064" PostId="7768" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome to Mythology and Folklore. Interesting answer. Is it possible to elaborate a little further and maybe add some of the sources that are noted on the fandom page and your own research?" CreationDate="2020-12-02T13:11:32.273" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14065" PostId="7774" Score="2" Text="You have &quot;also read&quot;... Where is this? &quot;Earth-shaker&quot; is an epithet typically given to Poseidon." CreationDate="2020-12-12T21:45:02.380" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14067" PostId="7774" Score="1" Text="This is open to so many interpretations. Either the various gods, or giants are the incarnations of malign natural forces, Titans, etc. I've read a million versions and interpretations." CreationDate="2020-12-16T02:29:11.703" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="14068" PostId="7781" Score="1" Text="To answer part of your question, the only gods who would have been around at this time would be all the Titans, the old, primordial gods (kaos, nyx, gaia) possibly Aphrodite depending on who you ask, and the 6 Olympians." CreationDate="2020-12-18T00:26:33.073" UserId="7070" />
  <row Id="14098" PostId="7781" Score="0" Text="Mythology doesn't work by consensus.  Different people tell similar stories, which sometimes agree with each other and sometimes conflict.  Then the next generation comes around and changes it some more." CreationDate="2021-01-03T19:51:07.670" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14074" PostId="7785" Score="1" Text="The etymologies of Demeter and Poseidon are unclear. One suggestion is that Δῆ/Δᾶ is indeed the Doric form of Γῆ (earth). There's a lot of information on the subject on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demeter#Etymology &amp; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poseidon#Etymology" CreationDate="2020-12-22T14:27:29.693" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="14073" PostId="7786" Score="1" Text="https://lsj.gr/wiki/%CE%B4%E1%BE%B6 may be more helpful than  https://lsj.gr/wiki/%CE%B4%CE%B1-" CreationDate="2020-12-22T14:21:07.940" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="14166" PostId="7788" Score="0" Text="Didn't end. Kalki avatar hasn't arrived yet." CreationDate="2021-01-28T07:42:48.433" UserId="7301" />
  <row Id="14076" PostId="7789" Score="1" Text="Thank you @Codosaur for reply. This is great information. But I was actually trying to understand how their incarcerations ended. We all know how they came. But curious on how they ended their incarcerations." CreationDate="2020-12-27T13:49:50.087" UserId="7535" />
  <row Id="14079" PostId="7789" Score="0" Text="Well according to Hindu cosmology, some of these haven't ended yet, and Kalki yet has to appear at the end of the Kali Yuga." CreationDate="2020-12-28T08:42:42.883" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14085" PostId="7793" Score="2" Text="Great answer  thanks. Happy new year!" CreationDate="2021-01-01T00:39:00.987" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="14093" PostId="7793" Score="1" Text="@yannis No problem! And to you as well. By the way if you happen to play AC Odyssey I can warmly recommend the historic tours, they really did a good job of visualizing ancient Greece." CreationDate="2021-01-02T22:17:17.473" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14086" PostId="7794" Score="0" Text="Apollo is referred to as a sun god in Greek texts but only in the Hellenistic period." CreationDate="2021-01-01T22:30:07.820" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14096" PostId="7795" Score="2" Text="Very interesting, but without some sources we'll never know for sure. If you do happen to stumble upon the source please do not hesitate to add it." CreationDate="2021-01-03T10:40:59.110" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="15867" PostId="7796" Score="1" Text="How does this relate to the folktale?" CreationDate="2022-02-14T00:13:55.523" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14095" PostId="7803" Score="0" Text="A lovely answer. Thank you truly. Bless you" CreationDate="2021-01-03T03:29:19.657" UserId="7013" />
  <row Id="14103" PostId="7804" Score="4" Text="Parts of this appear to be copied verbatim from: https://schoolworkhelper.net/the-shield-of-achilles-symbol-in-iliad/. Please don't post the work of others without any indication that is not your own. For more details, see: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/referencing" CreationDate="2021-01-04T15:23:25.980" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="14097" PostId="7806" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the information. It's disappointing that no references survive, but I hadn't known about the meanings of adeō and abeō. I'll give it a week or so, but I will probably accept this answer and give it the green tick." CreationDate="2021-01-03T17:23:35.020" UserId="6394" />
  <row Id="14102" PostId="7807" Score="1" Text="Hi and welcome to Mythology and Folklore, could you specify what kind of story you are looking for? Irish mythology, folklore, or tales? Do you search for stories associated with ST. Patrick? Or earlier Celtic stories? Please edit the question to clarify what you are searching for. It will help the answerers to look in the right direction." CreationDate="2021-01-04T10:21:17.747" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14156" PostId="7807" Score="0" Text="Hello and thanks for that. I am looking for earlier Celtic stories under Irish mythology." CreationDate="2021-01-22T13:06:41.733" UserId="7564" />
  <row Id="14108" PostId="7811" Score="3" Text="No time for an answer but I can suggest reading The First Fossil Hunters: Dinosaurs, Mammoths, and Myth in Greek and Roman Times by Adrienne Mayor. It talks about the The Nichoria Bone which is a bone uncovered by archaeologists in Greece and seemed to be excavated 2500 years ago by the Ancient Greeks themselves.&#xA;&#xA;https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691150130/the-first-fossil-hunters" CreationDate="2021-01-05T10:13:38.963" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14112" PostId="7811" Score="3" Text="Thanks @TomSol, added it to my reading list." CreationDate="2021-01-06T00:08:50.250" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="14111" PostId="7813" Score="3" Text="This is an interesting idea, however, the Ancient Greeks weren't particularly known for their feminism. Do you have anything to back it up?" CreationDate="2021-01-05T21:11:52.407" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="14114" PostId="7815" Score="1" Text="Well, that's interesting but I don't think it adds anything substantial to the quote in the question..." CreationDate="2021-01-06T14:41:08.840" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="14115" PostId="7816" Score="3" Text="I think it's an awesome deep-dive of an Answer, actually, investigating the wacky mechanics of the issue." CreationDate="2021-01-06T15:36:34.420" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14118" PostId="7816" Score="1" Text="@Adinkra thank you. I'm happy to hear that! Do you feel it needs more to become a complete answer?" CreationDate="2021-01-06T23:05:15.637" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14126" PostId="7816" Score="1" Text="From the angle at which you're attacking the Question [to use the language of conflict, since we're talking about contending with monsters x-P ], I'd say that, near as I can tell, it _is_ a complete Answer. (If it's fair to say, I'm also conflicted after seeing the Answer by @StephanMatthiesen , which I wish I could also Accept, in tandem with yours [since it's approaching the problem from a completely different angle, one I'd've never expected myself].)" CreationDate="2021-01-15T04:07:02.373" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14127" PostId="7816" Score="1" Text="@Adinkra I totally agree with you. The bounty in his answer was well deserved. It is a very interesting point of view." CreationDate="2021-01-15T08:09:08.557" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14117" PostId="7818" Score="1" Text="Very interesting way of looking at this question. Welcome to Mythology and Folklore!" CreationDate="2021-01-06T20:55:53.137" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14119" PostId="7818" Score="2" Text="Wow! Welcome indeed! I really appreciate the depth of consideration regarding perspectives (haha! literally &amp; scientifically)!" CreationDate="2021-01-07T08:59:17.903" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14120" PostId="7821" Score="2" Text="Hi, are you asking about fate versus free will or destiny versus free will? Are you talking about predestination?" CreationDate="2021-01-07T14:28:25.043" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14203" PostId="7823" Score="0" Text="That is pretty much it, Thank you!" CreationDate="2021-02-10T20:54:06.453" UserId="6438" />
  <row Id="14121" PostId="7824" Score="2" Text="This is the relevant sea monster, but you don't actually answer what I'm actually interested in, because the version of the myth that you quote from Appolodorus does not mention Hercules being inside the monster. Meanwhile, @Gareth Rees is telling me in the chat https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/56677050#56677050 where that part is coming from." CreationDate="2021-01-08T11:23:11.733" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="14142" PostId="7826" Score="0" Text="Does this answer your question? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_hero_cult" CreationDate="2021-01-16T17:37:07.380" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14143" PostId="7826" Score="0" Text="not really, but thanks for trying." CreationDate="2021-01-17T18:12:46.247" UserId="7611" />
  <row Id="14150" PostId="7826" Score="0" Text="Can you be more specific as to what you're looking for." CreationDate="2021-01-21T01:19:32.733" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14128" PostId="7831" Score="0" Text="Here I recognize Hesiod's etymology for *Titan.* Be warned, though, that in ancient discourse etymology functions more as a [*topos*](https://www.thoughtco.com/topoi-rhetoric-1692553) for invention than as a linguistic science." CreationDate="2021-01-15T12:08:46.373" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14131" PostId="7832" Score="0" Text="Although genealogical lineages were not what I had in mind when asking this question, they are obviously an important kind of relation, so thank you for your valuable comments and suggestions. What interests me lies more in the direction of  narratives and actions of the personages involved, as e.g. the question whether there is a narrative where, for example, Ares and Hestia take part. But, as you say, asking for this kind of indexing is probably too much." CreationDate="2021-01-15T16:13:57.310" UserId="6712" />
  <row Id="14132" PostId="7832" Score="0" Text="I think I see what you're getting at. So is your question more along the lines of whether there's an index in which there's a sort of binary (yes vs. no) answer, at a glance, as to whether any 2 characters [says Ares &amp; Hestia] interact in a narrative?" CreationDate="2021-01-15T17:35:52.667" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14133" PostId="7832" Score="0" Text="Yes, a binary index at least, and if possible ternary etc." CreationDate="2021-01-15T18:03:00.507" UserId="6712" />
  <row Id="14134" PostId="7832" Score="0" Text="To make it clearer, in the text of the question I have changed &quot;index&quot; to &quot;binary index&quot; and &quot;relationships&quot; to &quot;interactions&quot;." CreationDate="2021-01-15T18:32:52.073" UserId="6712" />
  <row Id="14137" PostId="7832" Score="0" Text="Alright. I've updated my Answer per your Question Edit." CreationDate="2021-01-15T19:11:02.030" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14138" PostId="7832" Score="0" Text="I think that with the digital tools currently available, the task may not be as difficult as it seems.  The inital step would be to get the entire written classical corpus in some kind of text format that can be searched through with appropriate utilities. So is it  possible to get to that? My initial searches in freely available material are a bit disappointing.. e.g. Proclus is missing from Perseus. I wonder whether the TLG full-corpus subscription is the only solution, at least for the Greek texts." CreationDate="2021-01-15T19:46:03.557" UserId="6712" />
  <row Id="14139" PostId="7832" Score="0" Text="Well, that's your 1st problem right there: unfortunately (for those of us who are really into searching out the really obscure stuff) the 1st step to which you make reference seems to be a long way off yet. Indeed, a great deal of the ancient sources have been translated into English (relatively important if, like me, you don't really read Ancient Greek or Latin) and digitised, and collected onto one platform or another, but there are perhaps hundreds of sources which are yet to be translated." CreationDate="2021-01-15T21:19:02.493" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14140" PostId="7832" Score="0" Text="&amp; some of the digitised material, from what I can tell, exists solely in the form of photographed facsimiles of old manuscripts, which, even if you _do_ read older Greek or Latin, are therefore not digitally word-searchable (notwithstanding the issues one might have with the lack of a standardised keyboard equivalent of the older forms of Greek script, e.g.)." CreationDate="2021-01-15T21:19:54.770" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14141" PostId="7832" Score="0" Text="For me, 1 of the glaring omissions in terms of ways to look at the ancient sources is that a tonne of the different Scholia have never been translated, nor even collected into a single location online; and in some cases they preserve otherwise lost myths and legends. Having said all of that, if someone did indeed come up with what you're talking about, I would sure love it!" CreationDate="2021-01-15T21:20:44.943" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14148" PostId="7836" Score="1" Text="That's an insightful addition to this. Thanks a lot. I also know now that Black was the colour associated with South in Slavic culture, which I assume the chernoglav gets his name from, but I'll have a look into the doc." CreationDate="2021-01-19T23:15:52.930" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="14149" PostId="7837" Score="2" Text="Are you talking about the comics or actual Norse mythology?" CreationDate="2021-01-21T00:18:09.280" UserId="5347" />
  <row Id="14151" PostId="7837" Score="0" Text="Norse mythology." CreationDate="2021-01-21T02:03:52.863" UserId="7622" />
  <row Id="14160" PostId="7837" Score="0" Text="Kind of by definition, there is one Ragnarok.  Other mythologies (Hindu comes to mind first) have a cyclic nature to the universe and think apocalyptic events happen as part of a repetitive cycle (pralaya comes to mind, although this is more an interlude between ages). I don't think Norse mythology requires that the universe ends with Ragnarok though - only that it is the end of the age of gods.  I've even met someone who thought the Norse gods might have been real, and they had to pass from the world to make way for the Christian age.  That sounds crazy to me, but who knows?" CreationDate="2021-01-23T19:27:29.730" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="14161" PostId="7837" Score="0" Text="@DWKraus Norse cosmology may be cyclical as well: See [andejons' answer](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/2184/57) to [Why does the dragon emerge at the dawn of the new world?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/q/1370/57)." CreationDate="2021-01-24T00:44:32.067" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="14162" PostId="7837" Score="0" Text="@yannis♦ Well, it could be possible; the symbolism is a little open to interpretation. It does put a different spin on it. Thx" CreationDate="2021-01-24T03:32:05.097" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="14163" PostId="7837" Score="0" Text="@DWKraus Ragnarök, I've just looked up, means the *final* destruction of the world. So maybe Ragnaröks occured before, and this last one featuring the Aesir and Jötnar will be the last." CreationDate="2021-01-24T07:28:22.137" UserId="7622" />
  <row Id="14480" PostId="7841" Score="1" Text="The description and the image kind of reminds me of the atmosphere in the red rooms and corridors of  the [&quot;Black Lodge&quot;](https://twinpeaks.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Lodge) in David Lynch's original &quot;Twin Peaks&quot;." CreationDate="2021-06-17T09:13:25.810" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14530" PostId="7841" Score="2" Text="You should know it's probably very normal to dream of backrooms-like places as it is inspired by certain childhood traumas/fears such as the one of empty places." CreationDate="2021-06-14T14:09:37.653" UserId="8245" />
  <row Id="14170" PostId="7848" Score="0" Text="It depends, clearly. I would imagine being a demigod is riskier than most jobs, so I would assume that the typical demigod life expectancy would be shorter than average. All the monster hunting and evil family members are not good for your health." CreationDate="2021-01-30T17:29:51.020" UserId="7070" />
  <row Id="14171" PostId="7848" Score="3" Text="Even the gods are ordinary mortals without ambrosia.  I doubt that a demigod would live longer than other men -- though inconsistencies are rife in Greek mythology." CreationDate="2021-01-31T00:16:18.907" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14184" PostId="7848" Score="0" Text="@267126 I meant their lifespan." CreationDate="2021-02-07T21:10:20.363" UserId="7622" />
  <row Id="14206" PostId="7848" Score="0" Text="Tiny nitpick but Herakles became a god" CreationDate="2021-02-10T22:09:13.970" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14165" PostId="7849" Score="0" Text="Perhaps named for [Mary the Jewess](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_the_Jewess)?" CreationDate="2021-01-28T06:40:38.093" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14167" PostId="7849" Score="0" Text="Can you add your citations?" CreationDate="2021-01-29T04:46:40.503" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14169" PostId="7850" Score="0" Text="Yes I have read that. There was an interesting person I have been reading about called Mary (Maria) the Jewess who is said to have been the sister of Moses and was an alchemist and invented many items which we still use today, such as the Bain-Marie, found in kitchens! There is more but unfortunately all of her writings have been lost! I wonder how many other women have been involved with alchemy or the deeper aspects of mythology that we are not aware of because they were &quot;just women&quot;?" CreationDate="2021-01-29T14:21:20.387" UserId="7666" />
  <row Id="14229" PostId="7850" Score="0" Text="@Bepe - Who said that Mary the Alchemist was the sister of Moses? That would be weird. Moses's sister was named Miriam (מִרְיָם‎), not Mary as such. Assuming Moses himself existed (most researchers think he did not) and assuming Miriam also existed, they would have lived before 1000 BCE, and the first texts that mention them are from a few hundred years BCE. However, Mary the Alchemist was said to have lived some time after 100 AD. Unless one takes a religious view and believes that Miriam was immortal or long-lived, but note that the Tanach says she died during the wandering in the desert." CreationDate="2021-02-20T17:27:01.013" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="14168" PostId="7851" Score="1" Text="What are your sources?" CreationDate="2021-01-29T11:59:50.423" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14173" PostId="7852" Score="1" Text="You might have to specify what you mean by &quot;grim reaper&quot;. As far as I'm aware, there are multiple figures that can be called that to various extents from different mythologies. Many of them served as an inspiration to what we *nowadays* call &quot;Grim Reaper&quot;. That figure itself has changed over time as well." CreationDate="2021-02-03T08:27:35.470" UserId="6088" />
  <row Id="14174" PostId="7852" Score="1" Text="@VLAZ Whichever one is the earliest." CreationDate="2021-02-03T13:29:56.063" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="14175" PostId="7853" Score="4" Text="Perhaps she enjoyed her status as queen of the gods." CreationDate="2021-02-03T15:59:53.440" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14177" PostId="7853" Score="0" Text="@Harel13, of course she did. It is just a shame, because she never agreed to the marriage in the first place. Zeus raped her and she was ashamed of that, and reluctantly agreed to marriage. She must regret it from that day forward…" CreationDate="2021-02-03T19:44:18.733" UserId="7622" />
  <row Id="14183" PostId="7853" Score="0" Text="Hera is the _goddess of marriage_.  There is a scene in the musical _Evita_ where Eva Perón is diagnosed with ovarian cancer, but she and her husband refuse surgery because the &quot;Mother of Argentina&quot; just _has_ to have ovaries...." CreationDate="2021-02-06T17:45:44.213" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="15903" PostId="7853" Score="0" Text="Could Greek women divorce their husbands?  (Roman women could, but there were a lot of differences.)" CreationDate="2022-03-15T01:03:06.023" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14176" PostId="7856" Score="0" Text="Wow, that must really suck for Hera. She, after all, does deserve better, than a cheating scumbag." CreationDate="2021-02-03T19:42:01.063" UserId="7622" />
  <row Id="15906" PostId="7856" Score="0" Text="@AmortalDemon I mean, you are aware that Hera isn't *real*, right? And I really don't think you can reserve the words &quot;cheating scumbag&quot; for any god - that would be making them too human. And while in myth they might seem very human, there is vast gulf between religious beliefs and practices and the stories told to convey them." CreationDate="2022-03-16T12:23:29.030" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14182" PostId="7860" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome to Mythology and Folklore SE! Thank you for answering, very interesting. I do have a question about the part &quot;Some writers suggest&quot;. What writers are you talking about? If you know these writers and their work, could I suggest adding them to your already interesting answer? And the same for the date 1392? That way every person on this site can look and learn from the same sources as you, and will make the answer clearer and qualitatively better. *This is constructive criticism and in no way meant to deter you from contributing more, I would love it if you stay and contribute.*" CreationDate="2021-02-05T09:50:46.667" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14185" PostId="7863" Score="3" Text="Does this answer your question? [Why is rape featured so prominently in Greek mythology?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/5461/why-is-rape-featured-so-prominently-in-greek-mythology)" CreationDate="2021-02-08T09:16:20.997" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="14186" PostId="7863" Score="1" Text="Hi and welcome to Mythology and Folklore! Interesting question. Please look at the question provided by Chenmunka to see if that might answer your question, if not that's also ok.&#xA;&#xA;@Chenmunka I think some can be answered with that question and its answer. But I also think the Eros part is interesting and unique enough that it might constitute getting its own answer." CreationDate="2021-02-08T14:36:05.797" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="15940" PostId="7863" Score="0" Text="There are questions to be asked here. Are you asking for Greek sources only, or Greek Roman? There are also some researches that assume that Aphrodite is a later inclusion of a more ancient godess, like Astarte, Isthar. Having that in mind, please clarify me what sources are accepted for an answer and I will give you one." CreationDate="2022-04-30T12:59:46.993" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="14192" PostId="7864" Score="2" Text="Nice Answer! Welcome to Mythology and Folklore, we hope you stay!" CreationDate="2021-02-09T18:25:59.867" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14193" PostId="7865" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome to Mythology and Folklore, interesting question! I hope you stay!  If you haven't checked it out already here's a link to our **[Tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour)**  If you find out any more info feel free to edit your question. I see you tagged it as monsters, do you think what you're describing is a monster, or it a hunch? I know one that comes to mind but might not be what you're looking for so I'll mention it in this comment. She's called Hekate from Greek mythology but has origins in Anatolia and some say Egypt.&#xA;&#xA;https://www.theoi.com/Khthonios/Hekate.html" CreationDate="2021-02-10T17:18:43.847" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14196" PostId="7865" Score="0" Text="Hi and thank you Tom Sol (for the editing and answer). &#xA;&#xA;I read the description and thought creatures and monsters could be the same depending on the person. &#xA;&#xA;I did some intense search before finally finding Mythology and Folklore and read about Hekate and also Seiðr, and despite both being really close (especially Seiðr), I feel like there is something missing to it but couldn't cross reference any of those with other existing myths and legends, I thought &quot;maybe some kind of shapeshifter&quot; thus the tags, hoping that someone would know something." CreationDate="2021-02-10T19:04:27.057" UserId="7715" />
  <row Id="14208" PostId="7867" Score="0" Text="Thank you for answring. these are not gods though" CreationDate="2021-02-12T12:20:20.307" UserId="7716" />
  <row Id="14209" PostId="7867" Score="0" Text="Yes, indeed. I'm afraid that as far as Indo-European mythologies go this is a good as it gets... You might want to look up the Atzec dog-headed god Xolotl, but on that I'm much more ignorant and I cannot provide any sources." CreationDate="2021-02-12T14:42:04.327" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14210" PostId="7870" Score="1" Text="Hi Gullintanni, thank you SO MUCH, I'm going to do extensive research about what you wrote, I have never heard of it before but it sounds so interesting, I'll come back ASAP once I read a bit more about it." CreationDate="2021-02-14T22:24:29.993" UserId="7715" />
  <row Id="14217" PostId="7870" Score="0" Text="Amazing Gullintanni but Zoroastrian mythology doesn't quite feel like the answer as you thought." CreationDate="2021-02-17T14:57:09.980" UserId="7715" />
  <row Id="14212" PostId="7874" Score="0" Text="@TomSol what about Hesiod's or Apollodorus' works?" CreationDate="2021-02-16T16:46:20.613" UserId="7622" />
  <row Id="14218" PostId="7874" Score="0" Text="In Hesiod, is he a Gigante?" CreationDate="2021-02-17T16:47:15.730" UserId="7622" />
  <row Id="14447" PostId="7877" Score="0" Text="See [Mioritza](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mioritza)." CreationDate="2021-05-16T03:46:57.813" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="14219" PostId="7878" Score="1" Text="Hi Amortal Demon. To make this a better answer, try adding some sources. It doesn't have to be full-on academic in references, but something other than your recollections will help the reader understand what was actually going on in the ancient world." CreationDate="2021-02-18T03:03:24.400" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14220" PostId="7880" Score="0" Text="Do you know which of the 3 times Christ fell on the procession to Cavalry this is representing? That might narrow it down a bit. Also I'm surprised the other 11 stations don't have statues." CreationDate="2021-02-19T14:42:09.010" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14243" PostId="7881" Score="0" Text="Certainly interesting! I kinda discardet Seth because I did not know it as evil only as protector of Ra (coincidentally from Gods of Egypt but that movie was horrible). If you could expand on whyit became evil i might accept the answer, if you have time of coursze" CreationDate="2021-02-22T22:07:48.787" UserId="7716" />
  <row Id="14255" PostId="7881" Score="0" Text="While yes, Set had some sort of animal associated with him, I'm less certain the Egyptians thought Set actually had an animal head or that Horus had a falcon head for that matter." CreationDate="2021-02-25T20:11:13.223" UserId="4761" />
  <row Id="14256" PostId="7881" Score="0" Text="@PrincessFrooFroo I hope the paragraph I added is satisfactory." CreationDate="2021-02-25T21:51:27.323" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14221" PostId="7882" Score="1" Text="You are right that the two thieves and the soldier Longinus were bad examples for me to give because they appear in the Gospels, whereas Christ falling with the cross does not.  But there are other elements of the passion that do not appear in the bible, yet have a detailed enough story in mythology, most notably the veil of Veronica." CreationDate="2021-02-19T18:39:38.560" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="14223" PostId="7882" Score="1" Text="Keep in mind that also in the case of Veronica, the character dates back to the Gospel of Nicodemus and the very similar story of the Image of Edessa is attested in 4th century sources. The medieval tradition simply combined the two (possibly via the correspondence Veronica = Vera Icon)." CreationDate="2021-02-19T21:13:32.290" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14222" PostId="7883" Score="1" Text="Do you have any references that back up the idea that the Greeks believed that the soul could not be destroyed?  It is not a universal belief." CreationDate="2021-02-19T18:51:50.990" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="14227" PostId="7883" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka It's often implied. The dead all end up in Hades, and there's no evidence that comes to mind about someone being zapped from existence. They can always come back from Hades." CreationDate="2021-02-20T14:52:47.290" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14228" PostId="7883" Score="0" Text="That said, I'm not sure there's evidence of ancient Greeks believing tree souls transmuted." CreationDate="2021-02-20T14:54:35.733" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16215" PostId="7885" Score="0" Text="Why am I being downvoted? The answer is correct and addresses the question being asked." CreationDate="2022-12-07T19:29:25.377" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14236" PostId="7886" Score="1" Text="One notes that without ambrosia, the gods themselves aged, and there's no indication that they did so slowly." CreationDate="2021-02-22T00:43:30.013" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14564" PostId="7886" Score="1" Text="@Mary That detail only appears in some versions of the mythos. For example, in The Iliad, the Olympians are specifically referred to as &quot;the deathless gods&quot; and &quot;they who need neither food nor drink.&quot;" CreationDate="2021-08-07T21:24:32.043" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14246" PostId="7896" Score="0" Text="I'm having some trouble making sense of your references to the source text. In particular, the only occurrences of _sinnišātu(m)_ (&quot;womanhood&quot;) that I can find in the edition by L.W. King that you linked is on tablet II line 122 (actually line 144 in the transcription I have by A. Sahala, which is based on Talon 2005; King's line numbers for the latter half of tablet II are uncertain due to lacunae), and I also have no idea what &quot;Tabl. VI, 11. 97&quot; is supposed to reference. (King's edition includes only a few lines from tablet VI, and I see no mention of Tiamat on the entire tablet.)" CreationDate="2021-02-23T15:52:15.150" UserId="309" />
  <row Id="14249" PostId="7896" Score="0" Text="@IlmariKaronen I see what you mean. I have made some serious mix-ups in my answer in my haste in shortness of time. Very sloppy of me, I seem to have used Luzacs Semitic Text and Translation Series and Mixed his conclusions with other works. I have removed that part and will Rephrase and repost that part with proper citations  when I find the time." CreationDate="2021-02-23T20:00:49.610" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14241" PostId="7897" Score="1" Text="Hi and welcome to Mythology and Folklore! Would it be possible to add some sources? This makes the answer more credible and will make sure future readers can consult the same sources as you have. Typhon has also been called a Storm-Giant for instance.&#xA;&#xA;Feel free to take our [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour)" CreationDate="2021-02-22T21:37:14.820" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14254" PostId="7899" Score="0" Text="Extremely good answer, thank you." CreationDate="2021-02-25T19:04:19.573" UserId="7622" />
  <row Id="14257" PostId="7899" Score="0" Text="Glad that it's helpful :-)" CreationDate="2021-02-26T00:20:35.110" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14396" PostId="7899" Score="0" Text="There is an interesting modern treatment of the &quot;sun-eyed Set&quot; &amp; his brother Typhon in Zelazney's [Creatures of Light and Darkness](https://ebooks.darknetproxy.com/index.php?page=13&amp;id=17528&amp;db=0).  There, the author calls Typhon the embodiment of &quot;Skagganauk Abyss&quot;, which I always took to be a form of [Ginnungagap](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginnungagap), which void take the form of a stallion." CreationDate="2021-04-20T20:57:36.050" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14420" PostId="7899" Score="0" Text="Ah... I'm quite unfamiliar w/ Zelazney &amp; this Skagganauk Abyss concept." CreationDate="2021-05-04T01:45:54.220" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14250" PostId="7906" Score="0" Text="Excellent answer! Really covered all bases." CreationDate="2021-02-23T21:20:41.250" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14251" PostId="7906" Score="1" Text="I appreciate that :-)" CreationDate="2021-02-23T22:00:29.667" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="15782" PostId="7906" Score="1" Text="Added a detail from one more source" CreationDate="2021-12-24T04:02:40.037" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14258" PostId="7912" Score="0" Text="Directly below it says: &quot;...Roman, 3rd-4th century AD Magical nails 'fixed' permanently with the power of magic. Some were used in shrines, others were probably driven into doors of houses to protect the household...&quot; - makes sense, as nails are common objects, small, compact - can be easily affixed into doors and walls and such." CreationDate="2021-02-26T13:38:53.510" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14259" PostId="7912" Score="0" Text="@Harel13 The &quot;were **probably** driven&quot; part made me ask for a source" CreationDate="2021-02-26T14:59:22.697" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14265" PostId="7912" Score="1" Text="The important thing here is probably what the nails said." CreationDate="2021-02-28T16:24:43.913" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14269" PostId="7912" Score="0" Text="@Mary That would be very important. Feel free to make an answer if you have some info, I'll gladly upvote it." CreationDate="2021-03-01T13:24:09.053" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14260" PostId="7913" Score="0" Text="Nice answer, I will read through the paper to see if that answers my question." CreationDate="2021-02-26T15:00:02.727" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14261" PostId="7913" Score="1" Text="Probably the best reference for these inscribed bronze nails would be &quot;Chiodi Magici&quot; by Gabriella Bevilacqua, but it's in italian and I couldn't find an open access link for it." CreationDate="2021-02-26T21:50:52.640" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14270" PostId="7913" Score="1" Text="I found one on JSTOR and I have an account there. I'll take a look, thanks!&#xA;Also the paper you linked answered more than I could have hoped for. I appreciate your continued contributions!" CreationDate="2021-03-01T13:34:43.873" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14262" PostId="7914" Score="1" Text="Could you provide a source on the second interpretation you mentioned? The available sources are quite clear in placing Ragnarok in the future, and the creation myth of Askr and Embla in the past." CreationDate="2021-02-27T01:25:47.340" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14263" PostId="7914" Score="0" Text="@Gullintanni I remember this being mentioned in Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology and by the occult editor and political pundit Styxhexenhammer. I couldn't tell you where to find their comments specifically, but I can tell you that Styx' was made in one of his occult videos.&#xA;You mention the conflict between these two Norse stories, but if you look at the first two chapters of the Bible, there are conflicting creation narratives. Such overlap is quite common and does not inherently make one less true, meaningful, valid, or legitimate." CreationDate="2021-02-28T02:52:22.323" UserId="6996" />
  <row Id="14264" PostId="7914" Score="0" Text="Oh ok, I though I had missed some medieval sources on Ragnarok. Gaiman's work is his own retelling of the stories from the Eddas, with no claim of being faithful to the sources. Styxhexenhammer is as far from an academic source as it gets. There are no conflicting creation narratives in the sources we have at our disposal." CreationDate="2021-02-28T14:10:56.873" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14271" PostId="7914" Score="0" Text="Gaiman says he got his ending from the [Gylfaginning](https://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/pre/pre04.htm)." CreationDate="2021-03-02T01:49:06.027" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14316" PostId="7914" Score="0" Text="Sure, he built upon it to make his own retelling of the story of Ragnarok. At no point in Gylfaginning Heimdallr says to Loki &quot;It is not the end. There is no end. It&#xA;is simply the end of the old times, Loki, and the beginning of the new times.&#xA;Rebirth always follows death. You have failed.&quot;. Which is where, I think, @Bleda got the idea of cyclicity. Gaiman should never be taken as an academic source when discussing Norse mythology." CreationDate="2021-03-11T11:34:38.727" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14268" PostId="7915" Score="0" Text="So you are saying the Romans used Magical nails for protection in their houses? Do you have any sources for this? I would greatly appreciate some sources on this." CreationDate="2021-03-01T13:22:44.527" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14266" PostId="7917" Score="1" Text="Zeus is also born of titans but a &quot;god&quot;. I believe the proper term is &quot;Olympian&quot; - I don't think Greek mythology really makes them separate &quot;species&quot;." CreationDate="2021-03-01T08:47:31.917" UserId="6088" />
  <row Id="14327" PostId="7918" Score="3" Text="&quot;Greek mythology is not a cohesive whole, but in constant flux. With each new poet, various traditions became codified, but they often conflicted.&quot; This should be a disclaimer on all ancient texts. Excellent answer!" CreationDate="2021-03-12T21:02:24.373" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14349" PostId="7918" Score="1" Text="People often equate mythology and superheroes, and this is one reason why. It's like asking &quot;what year was Bruce Wayne born?&quot; There is no answer, not because no one has ever given an answer, but because every retelling CHANGES the answer. With no version being any more &quot;official&quot; than the others, it means there's no official answer." CreationDate="2021-03-25T18:33:03.793" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14310" PostId="7922" Score="0" Text="Having some sources would help make this a better answer." CreationDate="2021-03-10T17:24:33.927" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14278" PostId="7924" Score="0" Text="Wikipedia has a long list that could help and it's grouped by various categories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_by_type Is this what you're looking for?" CreationDate="2021-03-06T12:13:11.773" UserId="6984" />
  <row Id="14279" PostId="7924" Score="0" Text="Wait, are you looking the any random seven creatures, or a group of seven?" CreationDate="2021-03-06T13:15:48.787" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14282" PostId="7924" Score="0" Text="Preferably a group of seven (or any other number) that is not random" CreationDate="2021-03-07T00:29:31.127" UserId="7787" />
  <row Id="14281" PostId="7926" Score="0" Text="Interesting, I would check on that" CreationDate="2021-03-07T00:28:39.257" UserId="7787" />
  <row Id="14286" PostId="7930" Score="0" Text="Excellent answer. After searching (on wiki and papers) I am still unclear on what neoanalysis is. Could you define neoanalysis please? Thanks for mentioning the book: &quot;Aethiopis&quot;: Neo-Neoanalysis Reanalyzed, does the book use neoanalysis to gain a better understanding of the Aethiopis?" CreationDate="2021-03-07T16:25:19.963" UserId="7780" />
  <row Id="14287" PostId="7930" Score="1" Text="My understanding of it (I'm by no means an expert) is that the analyst approach claimed that the Homeric epics were in reality a later combination of many different pieces by different authors. Neo-analysts instead claim that there was one author who drew upon several different sources, and in many cases they identify those sources in the lost texts of the Epic Cycle. Davies's Neo-Neoanalysis is a bit of a more refined approach to the matter, in the sense that he argues for more complex relationship between the Aethiopis and the Iliad. I added a link where you can read it in my answer." CreationDate="2021-03-07T17:59:57.743" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14289" PostId="7930" Score="0" Text="Your comment was very helpful.&#xA;&#xA;You’ve seen my other question on the reconstruction of the Theban Cycle. The question has now been classed as a duplicate of this one. Hopefully you had nothing more to add to the question now classed as duplicate.   &#xA;&#xA;I have confusion on definitions, I thought epic cycle meant Cypria though to Telegony only." CreationDate="2021-03-07T19:05:01.857" UserId="7780" />
  <row Id="14292" PostId="7930" Score="1" Text="Yes, everything I had to say regarding the Theban Cycle is in my answer here. It's true that there is a bit of confusion in the classification. Sometimes scholars include the Theban Cycle in the Epic Cycle, like Davies does in &quot;The Greek Epic Cycle&quot;, most often they are kept separate. For example &quot;The Epic Cycle: A Commentary on the Lost Troy Epics&quot; by West does not include commentary on the Theban Cycle. The translation by West I recommended, instead, includes both." CreationDate="2021-03-08T12:25:21.043" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14312" PostId="7930" Score="0" Text="West's Loeb also has a good introduction for each epic and plenty of notes throughout." CreationDate="2021-03-10T17:29:34.377" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14288" PostId="7933" Score="0" Text="Sorry if there was misunderstanding, I’ve edited the question.  &#xA;&#xA;I have seen Gantz's book recommended by other people. Thank you for giving me more confidence that this indeed meets my requirements. I wonder if the book gives and discusses sufficient primary works for my stated requirements." CreationDate="2021-03-07T18:39:43.893" UserId="7780" />
  <row Id="14290" PostId="7933" Score="1" Text="@Stewart It might not touch upon later sources too much, though when he thinks it echoes an earlier source he will include it. I only bemoan the fact that there aren't similar books for other mythological traditions." CreationDate="2021-03-07T20:43:00.800" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14317" PostId="7933" Score="0" Text="@Stewart So this is what you're looking for, right?" CreationDate="2021-03-11T19:10:34.547" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14328" PostId="7933" Score="0" Text="Sorry for the delay in accepting the answer, I’ve started reading volume 1 of what was suggested, and the sources interest me." CreationDate="2021-03-13T10:17:41.443" UserId="7780" />
  <row Id="14293" PostId="7934" Score="0" Text="@Steve But as to your first statement, the issue is that the condition seems to have at least existed in these societies, which means that people would likely notice that some segment of the population was exhibiting a consistent series of behavioral traits that were seen as socially negative. Similar to cancer in ancient Egyptians or lead/mercury poisoning in Rome and China, just because these societies didn't have our modern understanding of why something happened didn't mean they were unaware that something was going on." CreationDate="2021-03-08T22:43:50.130" UserDisplayName="user2352714" />
  <row Id="14294" PostId="7934" Score="1" Text="Wait, are changeling myths being understood as autism explanations A Thing? I mean, it makes sense, but this is the first I'm hearing of it." CreationDate="2021-03-08T20:22:39.100" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="14295" PostId="7934" Score="0" Text="@T.E.D. It's a really, really common explanation from what I've seen. Searching &quot;autism changeling&quot; in Google Scholar, for example, produces a wealth of results. Also changelings/autism are some of the first things that come up whenever I've tried to look up the other in my own research on the subjects. Honestly it's not *just* changelings, but depictions of faeries in general, though faerie myths are often broader in their depictions." CreationDate="2021-03-08T20:37:50.357" UserDisplayName="user2352714" />
  <row Id="14298" PostId="7934" Score="2" Text="I think this question presupposes the existence of an &quot;autistic&quot; stereotype in pre-modern society. It's also not clear why telling the truth or keeping your word would be seen generally as traits that need to be &quot;explained&quot; in a civilised society, or why a preference for animals and nature would be perceived as dysfunctional in agrarian society." CreationDate="2021-03-08T21:15:33.697" UserDisplayName="Steve" />
  <row Id="14300" PostId="7934" Score="0" Text="@Steve From what I've read in the folklore, the issue was that &quot;changeling&quot; children often preferred to be by themselves in the woods rather than play with other children, and this was perceived as practicing witchcraft or communing with other faeries. With lying, autistic people are often very uncomfortable lying even about very small details to the point of physical discomfort, which comes off as odd when they have trouble telling even the white lies that allow for social cooperation and conformity." CreationDate="2021-03-08T22:39:51.483" UserDisplayName="user2352714" />
  <row Id="14301" PostId="7934" Score="0" Text="@user2352714, I think you're only digging this hole deeper. White lies may promote cooperation, but so does telling the truth, and one could as easily argue that having a thick skin promotes cooperation too. I'm not clear that the practice of &quot;witchcraft&quot; was particularly associated with autistic people, and the accusation of it would be more typical of individuals with paranoid or psychotic disorders, or with communities that were under some sort of collective stress." CreationDate="2021-03-09T00:47:01.230" UserDisplayName="Steve" />
  <row Id="14302" PostId="7934" Score="0" Text="It should be noted that where children or adults were unable to properly function, either because they were profoundly autistic or suffered any other mental or physical disorder, accusations of witchcraft or possession by spirits and similar are best seen as a metaphor for simply identifying them as an undesirable element, perhaps in some cases so as to establish the social legitimacy for killing or outcasting them. Those in primitive societies would not have had the resources to manage many kinds of mental illness, or support unproductive individuals." CreationDate="2021-03-09T00:59:39.853" UserDisplayName="Steve" />
  <row Id="14303" PostId="7934" Score="0" Text="As to societies identifying personality differences, they may well have, but given the vast range of untreatable physical and mental illnesses, disabilities of physical form, and room for criminality and malevolent intent, the existence of individuals with mildly odd but harmless behaviour (certainly as harmless as &quot;he always tells the truth&quot; or &quot;he likes being around nature&quot;) would have been the very least of people's worries, and potentially seen as positive character traits or occupational advantages, respectively." CreationDate="2021-03-09T01:21:28.443" UserDisplayName="Steve" />
  <row Id="14304" PostId="7934" Score="2" Text="The chart at the beginning of the link &quot;Studies of autism indicate that it's present&quot; shows a wild variation depending on culture, with Hong Kong having 100x the rate of Poland.  That calls into question whether there even was a significant instance of autism in the time periods discussed, especially since all the countries on that chart are all modern industrialized nations." CreationDate="2021-03-09T01:48:37.930" UserDisplayName="Gort the Robot" />
  <row Id="14324" PostId="7934" Score="0" Text="Can you make it clearer that you're searching for proposals. The way it's worded now, especially in your last paragraph, it seems like you're looking for more something that is *accepted*, as opposed to merely *proposed*." CreationDate="2021-03-12T01:08:31.933" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14325" PostId="7934" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer Question has been updated per your suggestions" CreationDate="2021-03-12T06:39:48.377" UserId="7802" />
  <row Id="14311" PostId="7937" Score="0" Text="I tried to clean up your language a little bit, but there is still much here that is confused and confusing. You might want to break up your very long (and run-on?) sentences into more manageable chunks. Having some sources would also help make this a better answer." CreationDate="2021-03-10T17:25:35.333" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14329" PostId="7942" Score="0" Text="Thank you for the answer. So, as far as you are aware, there is no reconstruction available?" CreationDate="2021-03-13T10:18:40.067" UserId="7780" />
  <row Id="14330" PostId="7942" Score="0" Text="@Stewart What do you mean by reconstruction? He collected all the fragments and references to it, so it's about as clear of a reconstruction as we can get without making things up." CreationDate="2021-03-13T15:32:50.917" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14332" PostId="7942" Score="0" Text="Thanks for your reply.  &#xA;&#xA;I used the term reconstruction to mean: to glean more from the fragments than they would first suggest. &#xA;     &#xA;I have not yet (although planning to) read the following books, however my understanding is that the Leob Greek epic fragments book does not necessarily give as much of a reconstruction as is possible (it’s not its purpose anyway). For example, it has much less information about the Cypria than “The Cypria: Reconstructing the Lost Prequel to Homer's Iliad” by D.M. Smith." CreationDate="2021-03-15T18:52:32.390" UserId="7780" />
  <row Id="14333" PostId="7942" Score="1" Text="@Yes, it's a collection of fragments. Reconstructions of the sort you want often involve highly subjective conjectures, whereas the Loebs are more conservative in their reconstruction. Not sure if any of the former type exist for the titanomachy, though I think West in his Oxford commentary on Hesiod's Theogony might have some of what you're looking for." CreationDate="2021-03-15T20:20:47.993" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14334" PostId="7942" Score="0" Text="Thank you for that informative comment. Sorry, however I do not know which book you are referring to when you write: ”West in his Oxford commentary on Hesiod's Theogony”." CreationDate="2021-03-16T15:57:57.203" UserId="7780" />
  <row Id="14335" PostId="7942" Score="0" Text="@Stewart Actually, I looked today in it, and it doesn't go into Eumelus' *Titanomachy* at all. Sorry." CreationDate="2021-03-16T16:34:50.813" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14346" PostId="7957" Score="0" Text="You could think of Heracles burning him self alive as self-sacrifice, although that was more &quot;Ah, I'm in so much pain but it'll take way too long to die of centaur's blood poisoning, so I'll just self-immolate.&quot;" CreationDate="2021-03-25T16:51:58.020" UserId="7070" />
  <row Id="14347" PostId="7957" Score="0" Text="I am more interested in self-sacrifice to help others, not as an act of despair or bravado" CreationDate="2021-03-25T17:31:34.797" UserId="7845" />
  <row Id="14374" PostId="7957" Score="0" Text="Do you mean Greek Myths that are 'like' the Jesus/Christian narrative? The notion of heroic deeds was based on winning fame and glory and honour above all else, (aided by gods) rather than on self-sacrifice and altruism (e.g. biologist George R. Price). Though, arguably Perseus did 'save' people and humanity from danger. The Christian narrative of Jesus Christ is that he was crucified and resurrected to save mankind from sin (in general). From the Roman perspective, as Prof. Beard says, Jesus was seen as just another criminal." CreationDate="2021-04-13T17:43:28.337" UserDisplayName="user7559" />
  <row Id="14373" PostId="7958" Score="0" Text="Could Pericles be considered as someone who, aided by the (Goddess Athena), led the Greeks to salvation (narrative) through his contribution to early Greek democracy and therefore culture, leading to the golden age of Greek culture and consequently greater prosperity (albeit for the few)?" CreationDate="2021-04-13T16:57:19.087" UserDisplayName="user7559" />
  <row Id="14375" PostId="7958" Score="0" Text="@Dylan I don't see how Pericles' life could be reasonably seen as centered on self-sacrifice, even if we were to stretch the definition of a &quot;Greek myth&quot; enough to include him" CreationDate="2021-04-13T17:59:04.287" UserId="5229" />
  <row Id="14376" PostId="7958" Score="0" Text="Yes, I see. Greek Myths rather than instances containing myths, i.e. Prometheus (pure myth) vs. Pericles (aided by a Goddess). Pericles is an actual historical figure, as was Jesus. I just drew the parallel between the Christian narrative of God and Jesus, and Pericles and Athena. Though Pericles believed that the Greeks 'should have freedom from Tyranny', however unlike Prometheus, there is no defining moment of self-sacrifice. But Prometheus was punished by a god (Zeus), Jesus was not, only punished by a Roman culture that wanted to preserve their pantheon." CreationDate="2021-04-13T18:30:34.493" UserDisplayName="user7559" />
  <row Id="14348" PostId="7960" Score="0" Text="Can I ask for clarification? I've asked this question on three different websites, and every answer is like yours: &quot;They weren't sextuplets because Zeus was born last.&quot; That doesn't make sense to me. I'm not saying they WERE sextuplets, but what does Zeus being last have to do with it either way? Babies come out one at a time. If they were sextuplets, one of them would still be the youngest. We know that Apollo was younger than Artemis, despite being twins. I'm not denying your answer, I just don't understand why &quot;Zeus was last&quot; means &quot;we know for sure that they weren't sextuplets.&quot;" CreationDate="2021-03-25T18:25:28.390" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14353" PostId="7960" Score="0" Text="@Nerrolken What source led you to believe they *were* sextuplets? You're also missing the part where he wasn't just born last, he was born far away on an island, and they had plans for it." CreationDate="2021-03-26T12:38:13.540" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14354" PostId="7960" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer The first version I heard of the myth had them as sextuplets, and I'm trying to figure out if that's sourced from anywhere or just a modern invention. And yes! &quot;Born far away on an island&quot; is exactly what I'm looking for, that means he couldn't have been born alongside the others. Do you have a source for that detail? I just keep seeing &quot;Rhea hid him him from Kronus after his birth&quot; which could have been some sleight-of-hand with Kronus standing right there waiting to eat him right after eating Poseidon." CreationDate="2021-03-26T18:07:44.000" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14355" PostId="7960" Score="0" Text="@C.M.Weimer I'm not insisting that they WERE sextuplets, I just didn't understand the answers about Zeus being the youngest. It's like if you asked &quot;does this car have air conditioning&quot; and I responded &quot;yeah, because it has a lot of trunk space.&quot; You likely wouldn't be satisfied with my answer because the supporting evidence I provided isn't relevant. &quot;Zeus was the youngest&quot; seems to have no bearing on whether he was a multiple-birth, so I wasn't sure if the answer was definitive or an assumption. But if there's a source for &quot;born alone on a distant island&quot;, that would answer it for sure!" CreationDate="2021-03-26T18:13:05.160" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14356" PostId="7960" Score="0" Text="@Neerolken I had included that part in my answer..." CreationDate="2021-03-27T02:29:06.560" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14351" PostId="7961" Score="0" Text="It was mostly prophecy, The USS Enterprise had a computer capable of much more than the Dodona plank/branch. Interesting question though!" CreationDate="2021-03-26T10:08:17.877" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14499" PostId="7963" Score="1" Text="Your link goes to nothing but a couple of &quot;access denied&quot; tags." CreationDate="2021-06-24T01:08:02.750" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14519" PostId="7963" Score="0" Text="Unfortunately, it’s now only available behind a paywall. I’ve supplied a link to that…" CreationDate="2021-07-11T15:44:49.857" UserId="4962" />
  <row Id="14521" PostId="7969" Score="0" Text="There is 1 reference I know of Zeus battling typhon he picked up mount etna and buried the giant under it. He was a lot smaller than typhon but the gods in their natural size could trample humans" CreationDate="2021-04-16T00:21:14.500" UserId="7986" />
  <row Id="14523" PostId="7969" Score="0" Text="Surely as a god he could pick up a mountain while still being human sized.  Or does your reference say otherwise?" CreationDate="2021-04-16T17:46:00.920" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="14526" PostId="7969" Score="0" Text="@PalkiaCatcher what is your source of reference?" CreationDate="2021-04-18T20:13:16.020" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14527" PostId="7969" Score="0" Text="A book I have its just a collection of myths by various authors" CreationDate="2021-04-24T00:34:24.117" UserId="7986" />
  <row Id="14528" PostId="7969" Score="0" Text="I like this version of the battle, but you do need to cite the source." CreationDate="2021-04-29T01:35:45.200" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14362" PostId="7974" Score="3" Text="The Yuga cycle cannot be used to reliably date historical events (assuming that the events described in Ramayana and Mahabharata are historical at all, which is very much open to debate)" CreationDate="2021-04-09T12:04:43.137" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14363" PostId="7974" Score="0" Text="Thank you for your comment" CreationDate="2021-04-09T14:31:24.940" UserId="7535" />
  <row Id="14370" PostId="7976" Score="2" Text="You did well by adding &quot;citation needed&quot;. The lack of sources and the poor formatting of that specific paragraph of the Themis page makes me suspect that whoever wrote it does not have a solid academic background and was trying to push a personal (possibly ideological) interpretation." CreationDate="2021-04-12T12:13:04.737" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14397" PostId="7976" Score="0" Text="Based on the uncited source, because the theory behind the assertion is strongly supportable, my guess is that it comes from later philosophical treatment of the mythological texts specifically.  (Sound like something out of Plato, but I can't offhand think of a reference.)" CreationDate="2021-04-20T22:17:12.607" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14378" PostId="7989" Score="0" Text="Theseus wasn't expecting to die, so I wouldn't count him as a sacrifice. But Andromeda is a good one." CreationDate="2021-04-16T11:56:47.023" UserId="7845" />
  <row Id="14398" PostId="7997" Score="0" Text="Though I haven't read Percy Jackson in several years now, I seem to recall that Riordan still considered Perseus a son of Zeus. From what I remember, Percy's mom tells Percy early in the series that she named him Perseus because she hoped he would succeed like Perseus did in the face of various challenges. For whatever reason, Riordan was interested in creating a demigod son of Poseidon." CreationDate="2021-04-21T20:47:08.433" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14399" PostId="7997" Score="0" Text="@harel13 That is correct, but why did he name him after Perseus?  I think there may be elements of the Perseus myth that could support Poseidon as the father, which could have influenced Riordan, consciously or unconsciously." CreationDate="2021-04-23T02:55:25.490" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14401" PostId="8002" Score="0" Text="I guess Amphitrite is more easygoing than Hera?" CreationDate="2021-04-24T21:10:00.497" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14433" PostId="8002" Score="0" Text="What are your thoughts on Riordan's observation that riding a winged horse protects Percy in the air since horses are symbols of Poseidon.  (Although the canonical Perseus uses the winged sandals of Hermes, it's quite common to conflate this with Perseus riding Pegasus, as opposed to Bellerophon, because Pegasus sprung from the neck of Medusa when Perseus severed her head.)" CreationDate="2021-05-10T00:33:12.267" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14403" PostId="8005" Score="0" Text="Thanks. These while helpful are at least once removed from what I'm looking for. I have edited the question in an attemp to be clearer about what I'm looking for. For example if there were texts in the Xing Yi Quan tradition which state that &quot;such-and-such techniques when trained to perfection will allow the practitioner to move unhindered through the soil&quot; etc." CreationDate="2021-04-26T17:16:30.277" UserId="8000" />
  <row Id="14419" PostId="8005" Score="0" Text="There are no such claims in the surviving texts. Xing Yi uses movements called the five classical Chinese elements to *metaphorically* represent five different states of combat: Chopping	劈	Pī	Metal, Drilling	鑽	Zuān	Water,, Crushing	崩	Bēng	Wood, Exploding	炮	Pào	Fire, Crossing	橫	Héng	Earth. ." CreationDate="2021-05-03T09:18:03.213" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14421" PostId="8024" Score="0" Text="About him dragging naughty children to Hell, is that a modern/medieval addition Christian addition? What exactly is his role in the original pre Christian pagan mythology? Was he really demonic in the original pre Christian pagan religion as he is in the original Christian version? Also, what does the benevolent female Perchta have to do with the male demonic Christian version of Krampus?" CreationDate="2021-05-05T11:58:34.600" UserId="8027" />
  <row Id="14422" PostId="8027" Score="1" Text="There's Ingvar the Far-Travelled, (Old Norse: *Yngvarr víðförli,*) but the name is indeed not associated with being wise, as his entire army was eradicated on his last journey." CreationDate="2021-05-05T20:00:42.020" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14426" PostId="8030" Score="0" Text="I'm going to go with no, there is no ancient tradition. If there is a Medieval one, it's because it misremembered the story of Hermes bringing Heracles. Gantz has nothing on it, although I don't know how you expect to prove a negative with a post." CreationDate="2021-05-08T03:13:11.813" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14427" PostId="8030" Score="0" Text="Well, there's some pretty obscure scholia, &amp; such, out there, often discoverable in Italian &amp; Byzantine compilations, many of which I've only stumbled across recently &amp; a lot of which (the _majority_ thereof?) are yet to be translated into modern languages. I'd've been very dismissive about the info from the cited websites if I hadn't literally minutes before then found something akin to it in the Vatican Mythographers." CreationDate="2021-05-08T12:59:41.803" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14428" PostId="8030" Score="0" Text="Also I see you've deleted your own Answer which looked perhaps like what a good &quot;negative&quot; response might be. Anyhow, on the chance that there _is_ actually some such obscure mediaeval source out there, I don't know how else I would ask the Question, considering the possibility that the correct Answer could also be &quot;Nope, there's not.&quot;" CreationDate="2021-05-08T13:00:18.390" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14429" PostId="8030" Score="0" Text="I deleted it because you basically cover that information in your own question, so I felt it was redundant. I really don't think these pop websites are drawing on obscure scholia. I know Gantz is about 30 years old now, but I would have expected to see this somewhere. But then again, I don't pay attention to very late traditions which don't draw on antiquity." CreationDate="2021-05-08T13:49:54.243" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14430" PostId="8030" Score="0" Text="...so yeah, maybe there is some Medieval invention here." CreationDate="2021-05-08T14:14:29.417" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14500" PostId="8032" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the detailed Answer &amp; the references :)" CreationDate="2021-06-24T14:50:42.063" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14440" PostId="8033" Score="0" Text="Comprehensive and awesome as always!" CreationDate="2021-05-11T16:52:17.810" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14441" PostId="8033" Score="1" Text="Glad you're finding it useful. It was a genuinely interesting Question :-)" CreationDate="2021-05-11T16:54:59.463" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14442" PostId="8034" Score="0" Text="Do you happen to have any name for this tale? Or maybe an online source? Might help answerers. Welcome to mythology and folklore!" CreationDate="2021-05-12T04:31:08.457" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14443" PostId="8034" Score="1" Text="Yes - it's called The Fairy Widower, and it's in the collection Botanical Tales by Lisa Schneidau, published by The History Press." CreationDate="2021-05-13T10:19:09.427" UserId="8077" />
  <row Id="14444" PostId="8034" Score="1" Text="thanks for answering! I added this info to your question. In the future it's easier to add new info to your question yourself. Comments are subject to removal and will mean information will be lost." CreationDate="2021-05-13T22:03:16.023" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="14446" PostId="8036" Score="2" Text="Units of History classes covering specific cultures are likely to include some of the mythologies of those cultures." CreationDate="2021-05-14T17:45:38.873" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14485" PostId="8038" Score="0" Text="My understanding is that they are indeed cognate, the distinction of K and X is not great enough in regard to how language develops, where similar sounds have different particulars across cultural groups—phonemes are a factor in dialects, not just distinct languages.  It all comes down to the sickle, initially used to castrate Ouranos, and subsequently for harvest.  Agriculture—when to plant, when to harvest—makes tracking of time of critical importance for early cultures, and is the basis of ancient astronomy." CreationDate="2021-06-20T01:09:45.367" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14448" PostId="8039" Score="1" Text="Hi, Max. I added some details to try to explain what you're asking, by way of expanding on basic background info about Yazidism that might not be readily known to others (in order to keep the Question Open). Feel free to make your own Edit(s) if my input deviates from your intention." CreationDate="2021-05-17T04:19:20.950" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14455" PostId="8039" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra, generally i dislike when people are editing other peoples' questions. I asked it precisely as i asked it - and it was correct. You rewrote question &quot;Wherre...&quot;, please correct it to &quot;where&quot;..." CreationDate="2021-05-18T03:16:13.820" UserId="1148" />
  <row Id="14456" PostId="8039" Score="0" Text="Are you able to roll back the changes yourself?" CreationDate="2021-05-18T10:41:44.100" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14458" PostId="8039" Score="1" Text="@Max : Apologies for the spelling error. It's been fixed now. Apart from that, I was trying to elaborate on what I thought the intent of your question was, since there's was a Vote to Close it on account of the detail it was lacking. Of course I might have misinterpreted your intent so, like I said in my 1st Comment, if there's anything about my Edit that you don't want or like, you absolutely could change it or, as cmw says, just Roll Back (essentially _undo_ ) the changes that anyone makes to your work on here, no problem." CreationDate="2021-05-18T12:58:23.270" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14459" PostId="8039" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra, no probs, thanks. let's wait for knowledgeable colleagues to give any hints on the topic itself ;)" CreationDate="2021-05-19T04:23:05.437" UserId="1148" />
  <row Id="14460" PostId="8043" Score="1" Text="Unlikely - the Nazarene's birthday in December was set by clergy centuries after the verses that mention a star were written. This was done to associate Christianity with the much older pagan tradition of Saturnalia." CreationDate="2021-05-21T08:25:27.353" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14462" PostId="8043" Score="0" Text="@Codosaur Nevertheless, we are talking about legend, not historicity." CreationDate="2021-05-23T23:48:30.810" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14464" PostId="8043" Score="0" Text="Italy, particularly Rome. Romans worshipped Saturn/Chronus. Saturnalia was the Roman feast that became the Christmas phenomenon. Hope OP returns with the answer!" CreationDate="2021-05-26T21:27:58.987" UserId="3341" />
  <row Id="14474" PostId="8043" Score="1" Text="You are a genius, my teacher almost got a heart attack from the thought someone could solve it" CreationDate="2021-05-31T01:01:46.783" UserId="8134" />
  <row Id="14475" PostId="8046" Score="0" Text="Welcome to the site, Jeff. Sources would greatly improve this answer." CreationDate="2021-05-31T05:45:10.920" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="14463" PostId="8048" Score="1" Text="That's an argument I've never understood, could you explain further? Why does it matter that the words are different? &quot;Ares&quot; isn't spelled the same as &quot;war.&quot; &quot;Poseidon&quot; isn't spelled the same as &quot;ocean.&quot; &quot;Athena&quot; isn't spelled the same as &quot;wisdom.&quot; So why would &quot;Kronus&quot; not being spelled the same as &quot;time&quot; have any bearing on whether he was associated with time? (To be clear: I'm not saying they WERE the same, I just don't understand why the spelling of his name is relevant to his sphere of influence. It seems equivalent to saying &quot;John can't work at bank, because he has an H in his name.&quot;)" CreationDate="2021-05-26T16:56:14.757" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14466" PostId="8048" Score="1" Text="All right. I now understand what you mean. You were meaning Chronos the entity. Chronos in Greek is literally time. Literally. Now there is Chronos, who among with ΑΝΑΓΚΗ (it is spelled like anage but put it on google translate for better result) ( it means need, or necessity) were two entities in the form of monsters. Chronos had three heads, one of a man one of a taurus and one of a lion. and it had the body of a snake. Among with ΑΝΑΓΚΗ they were older entities than the Titans. ΚΡΟΝΟΣ (Kronos) was a Titan. So there you go. Don't hesitate to ask anything else you need on the topic." CreationDate="2021-05-27T07:32:42.797" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="14467" PostId="8048" Score="1" Text="Source is a mythological lexicon:&#xA;Emmy Patsi-Garin: Επίτομο λεξικό Ελληνικής Μυθολογίας, Publisher:  «Χάρη Πάτση», Athens 1969, page. 705&#xA;I am not at home but I will look for it on another lexicon asap to include a second source." CreationDate="2021-05-27T07:36:40.303" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="14468" PostId="8048" Score="0" Text="Edited my answer, added some sources." CreationDate="2021-05-27T07:54:51.450" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="14471" PostId="8048" Score="1" Text="@George Eco, thank you for the extra info, that is very helpful! :)" CreationDate="2021-05-27T21:43:19.367" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14473" PostId="8048" Score="0" Text="I am glad I could help out!" CreationDate="2021-05-29T21:27:55.323" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="14514" PostId="8050" Score="0" Text="Add the dark or even blue hair on Poseidon, signified by his epithet κυανοχαίτης, which goes back to Homer *(Od.* 3.6, 9.528, &amp; 9.536)." CreationDate="2021-07-06T20:02:03.453" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14472" PostId="8051" Score="0" Text="Very clever! I knew statues were painted, but I didn’t know we knew the colors!" CreationDate="2021-05-29T14:17:48.940" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14479" PostId="9064" Score="0" Text="Interesting!  Thank you for the info!" CreationDate="2021-06-14T01:54:30.980" UserId="8232" />
  <row Id="14496" PostId="9064" Score="0" Text="Bensiabel does appear in Canti e racconti del popolo italiano by Isaia Visentini (1879), though. https://www.google.com/books/edition/Canti_e_racconti_del_popolo_italiano/0Nk8AAAAYAAJ?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;dq=bensiabel&amp;pg=PA115&amp;printsec=frontcover The Grey Fairy Book was published in 1900." CreationDate="2021-06-23T12:01:04.313" UserId="5715" />
  <row Id="14483" PostId="9068" Score="1" Text="I don't see Gilgamesh's magic herb as an entheogen.  (Ruck once described entheogens to me as a a type of &quot;chariot of the gods&quot;:)  But my sense is we've typically associated them with magic plants that have psychotropic effects which lead to universal insights, such as the distilled barley mold (&quot;gift of the hyperborians&quot;) used at Elusis.  There, though, I think the insight was that life and death are interchangeable, where Gilgamesh is about eternal youth.   But there could be said to be a connection via the concept of rebirth, which is the core of  Persephone cycle." CreationDate="2021-06-20T00:22:09.750" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14494" PostId="9075" Score="0" Text="[Shakespeare](http://shakespeare.mit.edu/midsummer/full.html)'s fairies can be interpreted as tiny, or at least able to change their size, so that beats Drayton." CreationDate="2021-06-22T23:12:17.317" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14486" PostId="9076" Score="0" Text="There seem to be some ancient depictions of Iris the messenger god as a winged humanoid, eg. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Iris_Louvre_L43.jpg . Do you think these are all misidentified depictions of Nikē?  Not that this changes your main point." CreationDate="2021-06-22T11:27:28.870" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="14487" PostId="9076" Score="0" Text="Wait, I have one better than Isis.  https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Reliefs_of_the_Tower_of_the_Winds These are definitely ancient depictions of wind gods as winged humanoids, though you may say it's Roman rather than Greek." CreationDate="2021-06-22T11:38:55.403" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="14488" PostId="9076" Score="1" Text="Winged human depiction can be found as far back as the Ancient Egyptian and Babylonian civilizations. But the question was about the tiny, insect-winged fairy archetype, not regular sized human depictions with wings." CreationDate="2021-06-22T12:43:28.990" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14489" PostId="9076" Score="0" Text="Yes, I was just commenting about your sentence “The only winged beings among the Greeks were Nike and various monsters including Pegasus”" CreationDate="2021-06-22T13:09:48.960" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="14490" PostId="9076" Score="0" Text="Wow, I didn't expect to get an answer submission so soon! I'm not sure if I should mark this as &quot;the&quot; answer, though, since the source isn't particularly authoritative and focuses on illustrations where wider myth may have contained such winged characters as Nymphidia implies. Then again, Ricardo is a PhD candidate in some related field (I couldn't find which). What's the criteria for &quot;probably true&quot; on this SX? Perhaps I am being overly conservative." CreationDate="2021-06-22T20:45:51.550" UserId="8264" />
  <row Id="14511" PostId="9076" Score="0" Text="The title character in Euripides' *Alcestis* reports a vision of winged Hades coming for her." CreationDate="2021-07-06T16:07:47.810" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14491" PostId="9077" Score="0" Text="It definitely seems to be the likely case given the presented facts, but I'm leery of taking blogs as authoritative. Perhaps if they had listed the books that didn't include the myth the case would be stronger. I'll see about contacting the author so the answer can be amended and possibly accepted." CreationDate="2021-06-22T20:53:04.087" UserId="8264" />
  <row Id="14492" PostId="9078" Score="0" Text="Hey, thanks!  Since there's a bounty, going to hold off on accepting, but this would make a solid accepted answer. :)" CreationDate="2021-06-22T23:01:00.863" UserId="2892" />
  <row Id="14498" PostId="9079" Score="0" Text="Thanks again! Simon's article more than suffices for an authoritative source, and the rest of your post makes the argument pretty clear." CreationDate="2021-06-23T13:05:43.717" UserId="8264" />
  <row Id="14497" PostId="9080" Score="0" Text="Thanks! Between what you presented in your blog and this post, the case seems pretty unambiguous now." CreationDate="2021-06-23T12:53:26.420" UserId="8264" />
  <row Id="14501" PostId="9081" Score="0" Text="Great find! I'm pretty sure I've already read this part the _Dionysiaca_ before &amp;, clearly, completely forgot this detail! Also: Welcome to Mythology StackExchange :D" CreationDate="2021-06-24T14:51:43.857" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14502" PostId="9084" Score="1" Text="I'm afraid that I fail to see what your answer has to do with my question, other than a long attempt trying to explain that you don't like its wording." CreationDate="2021-06-28T09:44:30.817" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14503" PostId="9084" Score="0" Text="You asked for mentions of &quot;purified world&quot; or &quot;world without evil&quot; in the Levant area religions. I literally describe its origins in Zoroastrianism -&gt; Judaism and why these concepts did not necessarily exist in other religions in that area." CreationDate="2021-06-28T11:11:53.670" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14504" PostId="9084" Score="0" Text="You opened with explaining why you dislike the term pagan. Should I explain why I dislike the term polytheism? I find that that would be an unnecessary off-topic discussion. You then moved on to discuss whether gods were ever truly viewed as evil. I merely raised that as a possible suggestion of what a &quot;perfected world&quot; *may be* in such religions. Debating the matter seems irrelevant to me. Then moving on to highly debatable theories from biblical critics is further irrelevant to the topic. I missed the last couple of sentences of your answer, so you're correct on that." CreationDate="2021-06-29T17:07:26.090" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14505" PostId="9084" Score="0" Text="The relevant portion of your answer is probably from &quot;in the original text&quot; to &quot;Ahura Mazda&quot;." CreationDate="2021-06-29T17:07:32.147" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14509" PostId="9085" Score="0" Text="What ancient Greek texts or artifacts associate Hades or Aidoneus with a bident?" CreationDate="2021-07-06T14:41:36.033" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14520" PostId="9085" Score="0" Text="The movie Clash of the Titans claimed there was. The three combined to form the spear of triam. https://clash-of-the-titans.fandom.com/wiki/Spear_of_Triam" CreationDate="2021-07-11T16:52:21.050" UserId="4962" />
  <row Id="14537" PostId="9085" Score="1" Text="This isn't an official answer, but the bident is sometimes shown being used as a capture-tool, pinning a person or trapping a body part between the two tines. No proof, but the prison-like nature of the afterlife might lend itself well to a tool used to manipulate prisoners. The agricultural use of a bident is to turn the soil, appropriate for a god of the underworld and the grave." CreationDate="2021-07-12T19:09:09.007" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="14507" PostId="9086" Score="1" Text="You would need to distinguish it from both invisibility and very rapid motion, which is the sort of distinction that folklore rarely makes." CreationDate="2021-07-03T16:18:35.583" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14510" PostId="9088" Score="0" Text="Thanks. Useful information nonetheless. And we could always go back to the late 19th-early 20th century scholarly view that held that the Amorites were the ancestors of the Germanic and Scandinavian people......" CreationDate="2021-07-06T16:02:29.690" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14512" PostId="9088" Score="1" Text="Or not. Such a connection would be read by some as divine authority for genocide and/or enslavement of those people. We don't want 'em as the Master Race, thank you very much, but the opposite extreme is also worth avoiding." CreationDate="2021-07-06T18:01:23.663" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14513" PostId="9088" Score="0" Text="Snorri himself traces descent of the Norse gods from Trojans." CreationDate="2021-07-06T18:02:27.313" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14535" PostId="9091" Score="0" Text="Wherever the catholic sun doth shine, there's always laughter and good red wine." CreationDate="2021-07-12T10:14:08.420" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="14536" PostId="9091" Score="0" Text="@Lucian That is one of my favourite lines: **“Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,&#xA;There’s always laughter and good red wine.&#xA;At least I’ve always found it so.&#xA;Benedicamus Domino!”** - Hilaire Belloc." CreationDate="2021-07-12T14:31:03.227" UserId="1241" />
  <row Id="14518" PostId="9092" Score="0" Text="This question should provide an example of such abuse in a quotation." CreationDate="2021-07-10T11:32:28.513" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14542" PostId="9097" Score="0" Text="So, the myth of the mountain stabilizing a shaky Earth does not appear in earlier Zoroastrian texts to those two? Also, given that these two Zoroastrian texts both mention it, can we try to surmise an independent latest origin point for the myth as to explain its appearance in both texts?" CreationDate="2021-07-16T15:53:27.707" UserId="8334" />
  <row Id="14538" PostId="9098" Score="0" Text="Do you have citations for those references? Are they ancient or later commentators?" CreationDate="2021-07-15T20:34:33.817" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14539" PostId="9098" Score="0" Text="They are mainly modern commentaries, in mythological encyclopedias and the like." CreationDate="2021-07-15T22:11:39.707" UserId="8348" />
  <row Id="14540" PostId="9099" Score="0" Text="Thank you very much for the reply. I know theoi.com, but as you say, I didn't see anything that directly spoke on the subject. I did not give importance to the quote from the pseudo Hyginus, but now that you mention it, I see it very likely that this is the origin of a simplification of the monstrosity of Amalthea. I saw the references in some encyclopedia of mythology whose name I do not remember, that I saw in a public library, and in some other article on the Internet, always very brief references and without citing sources. Thanks once again." CreationDate="2021-07-16T09:07:47.817" UserId="8348" />
  <row Id="14541" PostId="9100" Score="1" Text="Thank you very much for this excellent response. I see that the clues to answer my question were right under my nose, but I didn't know how to see them correctly... Yes, everything points to a confusion-simplification between the various versions you mention. I had not noticed that version of Diodorus Siculus.  On this page there are real scholars answering.  Greetings!" CreationDate="2021-07-16T09:19:44.863" UserId="8348" />
  <row Id="14543" PostId="9100" Score="1" Text="Greetings to you! &amp; welcome to Mythology StackExchange :) ! Glad that you found this helpful. Hope that you get yet further use of the site. I would say that it's often quite difficult to see any obvious connections between the &quot;standard&quot; Greco-Roman mythology, and some of the more radically different versions of the myths recorded particularly by Diodorus Siculus, and Hyginus, since they seem to come out of left-field, as it were." CreationDate="2021-07-16T17:10:52.283" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14544" PostId="9102" Score="0" Text="Thank you, again, Codosaur! You always have great, knowledgeable answers! In fact you answered it in a way that I hadn't even thought of articulating. It is the collective term I was looking for, crocodiles as a species." CreationDate="2021-07-17T04:35:18.277" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="14545" PostId="9102" Score="1" Text="Glad I could help!" CreationDate="2021-07-17T12:48:32.170" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14561" PostId="10112" Score="1" Text="Most of Missouri was Osage territory, but it looks like the (closely related) [Quapaw held the lowland SE portion of the state](https://www.loc.gov/resource/g3701e.ct003648r/?r=0.371,0.309,0.344,0.167,0). I'd expect both nations to have had very similar mythology (if not identical)." CreationDate="2021-08-07T03:02:44.437" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="14562" PostId="10113" Score="1" Text="Rick Riordan's books are based on Greek Mythology sort of like how the Marvel THOR movies are based on Norse mythology. They're a fun intro to the world for new audiences, but if anything doesn't make sense the answer is usually &quot;because he made it up.&quot;" CreationDate="2021-08-07T10:36:58.730" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="16270" PostId="10114" Score="0" Text="For those who have not read the series, Riordan had her conceive children *mentally* and bear them from her head, as she was born from Zeus.  So she was still a virgin in his books.  That whole shebang was his invention, too." CreationDate="2023-01-26T01:18:47.917" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14569" PostId="10116" Score="1" Text="Do avatars of Vishnu, in Sanskrit epic, count?" CreationDate="2021-08-11T22:56:33.843" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14574" PostId="10116" Score="0" Text="@BrianDonovan They at least seem worth mentioning! Toss 'em in as an answer, and we'll see if they end up being the only one." CreationDate="2021-08-13T06:26:44.500" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14567" PostId="10118" Score="0" Text="Did you find &quot;cult&quot; in something that was supposed to be translated from Ancient Egyptian? Citation." CreationDate="2021-08-09T23:01:40.677" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14568" PostId="10119" Score="0" Text="So pairing šmsw with ntrw () would gave a phrase roughly meaning ntrw šmsw, or Netjeru Shemsu?" CreationDate="2021-08-11T04:08:46.760" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="14572" PostId="10119" Score="1" Text="It depends what you want to render. Some religions have no gods (e.g. Buddhism, Daoism, Jainism). I would expect not all cults to be theistic as well." CreationDate="2021-08-12T07:47:46.137" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14573" PostId="10119" Score="0" Text="I am trying to put together a phrase that shows the worship of the Egyptian gods, in ancient Egyptian words. Since there is no word for religion, I am trying to figure out a substitute, that could have reasonably been used. I could just use Kemetic religion, but I want to try and figure out something that sounds cooler and more authentic." CreationDate="2021-08-13T04:37:03.690" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="14582" PostId="10122" Score="0" Text="My impression is that there are plenty of such books prepared for the college textbook market. In my day I regularly taught a college course to which I gave the shortest course title in the whole curriculum: &quot;Myth&quot;; and although I favored assigning exclusively primary texts  (e.g., Homer, Hesiod, &amp; the tragedians for Greek), publishers kept sending me samples of thick textbooks that buried excerpts under just such material as you seek. As college textbooks these are of course overpriced, but often available used for less." CreationDate="2021-08-21T14:42:50.963" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14584" PostId="10122" Score="0" Text="Thanks. In those textbooks, how much discussion of myths impact on the world would they discuss vs. just discussing the myths themselves?" CreationDate="2021-08-23T00:56:38.027" UserId="8465" />
  <row Id="14576" PostId="10125" Score="1" Text="An interesting variation on the theories of Velikovsy.  However, Rubens predates the theory by a couple of hundred years.  I doubt if this explains the painting." CreationDate="2021-08-14T18:40:26.427" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="14577" PostId="10129" Score="0" Text="You guess?  Maybe?  This would be a better answer if you could back this up with some references." CreationDate="2021-08-17T14:03:29.633" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="14756" PostId="10135" Score="2" Text="There isn't much.  Indeed, Katherine Briggs discussed the possibility that it was all a literary trope that sometimes contaminated the folklore." CreationDate="2021-12-09T03:55:32.157" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14760" PostId="10135" Score="0" Text="I was looking for info because I am writing fantasy and wanted to include a fae court scene in it. I had a scenario and wanted to play it through based on what I could determine from their rules and how to get around them. I guess I'll have to color between the lines a bit more than I wanted. Thanks." CreationDate="2021-12-09T23:14:48.683" UserId="2985" />
  <row Id="14591" PostId="10136" Score="0" Text="So her sister Clytemnestra got short shrift?" CreationDate="2021-08-28T22:14:15.737" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14597" PostId="10136" Score="0" Text="Clytemnestra is not Helen's sister in the Helen Dendritis myths, only in the writings of  Aeschylus, Euripides and (with a smaller role) in Homer's Odyssey. The connection with Castor and Pollux as patron deities of sailors is probably how both Helen and Castor came to be associates with the kings of Sparta and ultimately in the Odyssey." CreationDate="2021-08-30T08:51:19.523" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14592" PostId="10141" Score="0" Text="Do you have any source on that? I find this a bit hard to believe, considering how little is said about Sigyn in the Norse corpus." CreationDate="2021-08-29T11:52:46.540" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14588" PostId="10143" Score="0" Text="This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient [reputation](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/whats-reputation) you will be able to [comment on any post](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/comment); instead, [provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker](https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/214173/why-do-i-need-50-reputation-to-comment-what-can-i-do-instead)." CreationDate="2021-08-27T17:24:22.537" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="14589" PostId="10143" Score="0" Text="It doesn't matter.  It provides an answer to another, more significant question." CreationDate="2021-08-28T18:06:30.580" UserId="8143" />
  <row Id="14590" PostId="10143" Score="0" Text="I need to clarify that the motto I referred to in my original comment was the motto of the Clan Chattan, to which the Clan McGillivray belonged.  The Scottish Highland country is very clannish, somewhat like Afghanistan." CreationDate="2021-08-28T18:16:38.037" UserId="8143" />
  <row Id="14602" PostId="10145" Score="1" Text="Ten is a very important number in Judaism (numerical value of the divine initial *yod*, Noah being the tenth from Adam, number of fingers, plagues, commandments, Sefirot, etc). Eleven, which goes beyond ten, signifies the beyond, or other (*ahara*)." CreationDate="2021-09-03T23:35:51.357" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="14600" PostId="10148" Score="0" Text="Unless I'm mistaken, that's more of a journey from one part of the underworld to another, correct? That's not an escape back into the mortal world." CreationDate="2021-09-03T06:57:48.190" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14601" PostId="10148" Score="0" Text="AH, ok. I read &quot;escape from the underworld&quot; as &quot;escape from the nasty realm&quot; (called duat in Egyptian)" CreationDate="2021-09-03T07:49:55.717" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14604" PostId="10149" Score="0" Text="It has to do with Mediterranean cultures because that's what I'm asking about. Japanese myths are interesting, but not relevant to what I'm looking for. I'm trying to find any instances in Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Phoenician, Sumerian, or other neighboring mythologies. Sumer isn't directly Mediterranean, but it's close enough for my purposes. All your examples (Ishtar, Persephone, Gilgamesh, Mwindo, and the twins of Popol Vuh) were stories of LIVING people-or-gods going into the Underworld, while I'm asking specifically about souls escaping WITHOUT help from such living allies." CreationDate="2021-09-06T08:25:37.707" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14606" PostId="10149" Score="0" Text="@Nerrolken I added the myth of Sysyphud, does that work for you? I will see what else I can find" CreationDate="2021-09-06T08:47:20.347" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="14607" PostId="10149" Score="0" Text="Yes, that's perfect! He escaped purely by his own guile, and successfully got back to the mortal world (at least for a while). If you've got any others, I'll take them!" CreationDate="2021-09-06T08:55:38.277" UserId="158" />
  <row Id="14608" PostId="10149" Score="1" Text="@Nerrolken this probably does not count, but the monkey king Sun Wukong from legendary Chinese literature escaped underworld by erasing his name from the book of the dead." CreationDate="2021-09-06T15:43:15.630" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="14615" PostId="10160" Score="2" Text="What evidence have you found that makes you think it doesn't mean what it says?  Especially given the other myths of his seductions." CreationDate="2021-09-16T23:47:26.427" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14625" PostId="10162" Score="0" Text="I don't know of any concise formulations off the top of my head, but I have seen some summaries before. If you stick around, eventually I'll come across it again and let you know." CreationDate="2021-09-22T02:52:29.833" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14627" PostId="10162" Score="0" Text="Your best bet would actually be in introductory books on ancient religion and war, like the Cambridge Companions or something like that. I'll look through there. Incidentally, I just came across a similar incident involving Rameses II, where he was &quot;saved&quot; by Amun during the Battle of Qadesh. The saving moment? When Egyptian reinforcements showed up!" CreationDate="2021-09-22T02:53:51.363" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14619" PostId="10163" Score="0" Text="One might also cite in this connection the ancient Hebrews, who passionately clung to the conviction that their god was the only real one and the ruler of the whole universe, even as their nation was getting batted around like a tennis ball among a whole series of more powerful empires. The solution was always to blame themselves or their leaders for offending Yahweh." CreationDate="2021-09-19T10:48:27.877" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14624" PostId="10163" Score="0" Text="Yet on the Carthaginian side, I'm sure they thought their gods were stronger. It might be more interesting to frame it with respect to what the victors thought, not the *victi*." CreationDate="2021-09-22T02:50:49.077" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14626" PostId="10163" Score="0" Text="What evidence did we have that the Carthaginians thought that, as opposed to having lost the gods' favor?  Certainly we have Roman accounts of their panicking about having failed in offering proper sacrifice -- and we have no Carthaginian accounts, so that's the evidence we've got." CreationDate="2021-09-22T02:53:30.507" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14632" PostId="10167" Score="0" Text="Invoking divine protection does not mean that the gods are calling for the war." CreationDate="2021-09-25T14:02:42.453" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14636" PostId="10173" Score="0" Text="See [list of mythologies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mythologies), [Australian Aboriginal religion and mythology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Aboriginal_religion_and_mythology), and [Polynesian narrative](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_narrative), including their *See also* sections." CreationDate="2021-09-30T16:15:13.310" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="14637" PostId="10173" Score="0" Text="The Polynesian narrative page unfortunately only really gives a very rough overview, more confirming the a proto-mythology could be reconstructed than actually doing it, the references don't look like they'll be much help either. The Australian page is largely the same, only covering a few similarities and pan Australian myths making it seem like some sort of stronger reconstruction could be made, although I hadn't looked at the references before and some of them definitely seems worth checking out, so thanks!" CreationDate="2021-10-01T22:45:39.210" UserId="8590" />
  <row Id="14644" PostId="10183" Score="1" Text="Any evidence for your claims?" CreationDate="2021-10-06T06:09:33.943" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14645" PostId="10187" Score="0" Text="This is still exactly what I was after, something that confirms it, thank you!" CreationDate="2021-10-08T08:28:32.260" UserId="8590" />
  <row Id="14646" PostId="10188" Score="1" Text="You know to my shame I'd completely forgotten about Old Man Willow in lord of the rings, had I remembered I don't think I would've cast so much doubt on the sentence" CreationDate="2021-10-08T08:30:30.650" UserId="8590" />
  <row Id="14647" PostId="10190" Score="1" Text="Thank you, All these sources look great from first glance, especially the Martina Buckova articles, I'm a little surprised Polynesian isn't more constructed though, although I'm guessing there's nothing quite as studied or developed as the Indo-European theory is so I may have just had my hopes a bit high. Still thank you for giving me a healthy amount of reading to occupy myself with!" CreationDate="2021-10-12T07:42:15.800" UserId="8590" />
  <row Id="14648" PostId="10194" Score="2" Text="There are also many fairy tales of monstrous brides." CreationDate="2021-10-13T23:52:37.883" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14649" PostId="10196" Score="0" Text="You actually described my problem quite better than I could. I took the greek god as an example, since I believed it to be a popular and well-known example. I am trying to trace the origin, in this case Zeus, all the way to the end, when the gods were bascially &quot;forgotten&quot;. Bascially who was the first &quot;Zeus&quot; in the oldest recorded writing or orally passed down stories, before it was &quot;copied&quot; by other cultures. I was aware of the conflicting origin stories, which is why I wanted to pinpoint a chronological moment in history in order to write a as close as factually correct story." CreationDate="2021-10-14T19:09:46.880" UserId="8635" />
  <row Id="14650" PostId="10196" Score="0" Text="But I may also have realized it might to big of a task, to find an answer on a forum, given the amount of information or/and lack of information. I was more or less worried about being wrong. I think I will start with the links you provided and grind my way through it." CreationDate="2021-10-14T19:13:03.373" UserId="8635" />
  <row Id="14651" PostId="10196" Score="0" Text="@user8635 you might want to review https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_mythology and related links and books, then!" CreationDate="2021-10-19T06:29:31.907" UserId="116" />
  <row Id="14653" PostId="10201" Score="1" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2021-10-20T07:57:20.467" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="14656" PostId="10201" Score="0" Text="It is unclear what is the relation here between Hera and Artemis." CreationDate="2021-10-20T12:48:04.130" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="14659" PostId="10202" Score="0" Text="Are you looking for *any* publication by Hertha von Dechend, or just those concerning the specific approach to archaeoastronomy presented in &quot;Hamlet's Mill&quot;? Are you also interested in publications from other authors supporting similar views?" CreationDate="2021-10-27T17:04:42.057" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14662" PostId="10202" Score="0" Text="Both.  I've written about these things but I am new to StackExchange and don't know whether I am allowed to &quot;advertise&quot; by providing references." CreationDate="2021-10-29T09:20:03.093" UserId="8667" />
  <row Id="14669" PostId="10202" Score="0" Text="If those references may help clarify your question, they are welcome." CreationDate="2021-11-01T12:37:05.287" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14672" PostId="10202" Score="0" Text="Relevant publications include: J. Saul, The Tale Told in All Lands (2013); Wm. Sullivan, The Secret of the Incas (1996); Harald Reiche's contribution to Astronomy of the Ancients (1979); and J. Saul, What the Stork Brought: African click-speakers and the spread of humanity's oldest beliefs (2019)." CreationDate="2021-11-07T09:00:43.263" UserId="8667" />
  <row Id="14657" PostId="10203" Score="0" Text="Is this your personal theory or is it based upon some teaching?  If the latter, please say what that teaching is - that would be a better answer." CreationDate="2021-10-24T17:10:57.140" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="14658" PostId="10203" Score="0" Text="Welcome to the site! It is recommended you source your answer. Though we deal here with myths, answers should be grounded in the facts and realities of these myths and concepts." CreationDate="2021-10-24T20:18:56.227" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="14663" PostId="10209" Score="0" Text="Most of the other commonly-associated nations are great-lakes based, so this isn't surprising on a geographic level. It however is another non-Algonquian culture, like the Osage, so good info there." CreationDate="2021-10-29T13:09:37.727" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="14665" PostId="10210" Score="0" Text="Needs references." CreationDate="2021-10-30T00:10:42.370" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14666" PostId="10210" Score="0" Text="Mary: When Loki tells about it in the Lokasenna (in the Edda Poems). After Frigg defends her husband, Loki makes fun of how she had sex with Odin's brothers. In the next verse Freya says that Frigg knows everything even though she doesn't say it.&#xA;&#xA;Also Frigg is told specifically in Völuspá about when and how Odin will die. So she know that in particular wouldn't happen yet." CreationDate="2021-10-31T12:07:36.213" UserId="8701" />
  <row Id="14667" PostId="10210" Score="0" Text="Also in Ynglinga saga is was recounted in detail what happened. And Frigg knew very well that nothing happened to Odin. But then again, Odin had sex with other women, trolls and other æsir. Both with and against their will. It wasn't seen as serious as in Abrahamic morality." CreationDate="2021-10-31T12:09:58.047" UserId="8701" />
  <row Id="14668" PostId="10210" Score="0" Text="Hi, Johan. Welcome to Mythology StackExchange. Please incorporate this information in the actual text of your Answer." CreationDate="2021-10-31T14:43:17.263" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14670" PostId="10215" Score="2" Text="They would probably have said &quot;Helen of Sparta&quot; if they were going that direction.  They were independent kingdoms." CreationDate="2021-11-05T01:22:47.710" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14673" PostId="10218" Score="0" Text="Welcome to Mythology StackExchange! I'm not sure I understand your Question. Sophocles' _Antigone_ does survive, and it premiered in 441 BC; &amp; the ode of Pindar, to an excerpt of which your Question is linked, comes from the 400s BC as well. Are you asking if there are actual material copies of these works which still exist today that can be dated to before the Common Era? Or do you mean something rather different from that?" CreationDate="2021-11-08T05:55:03.580" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14674" PostId="10218" Score="0" Text="I'm asking  if there are actual material ancient works(even if stone inscriptions)  ,that mention this story,and predate the 1st century BC, which still exist today?" CreationDate="2021-11-08T13:39:08.423" UserId="8730" />
  <row Id="14675" PostId="10218" Score="0" Text="Ah, I see. Allow a further clarification query, please: So your Question is about how old the actual paper, papyrus, stone, etc. itself is, &amp; not simply when the attributed author originally wrote it down?" CreationDate="2021-11-08T15:39:14.540" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14676" PostId="10218" Score="0" Text="actually someone told me that we can't trust that this story is originally predates 1st century CE ,if we don't have the actual paper, papyrus, stone, etc. that predate 1st century CE ! .  eg: if we don't have an actual paper of Antigone Sophocles that predates 1st century ,then we can't trust that the part that mentions the golden shower of zeus is original to the work ,as it could be later addition..he even suppose that the work could be totally faked and falsely attributed to sophocles.!!in other words,according to him, there is no way to prove that the myth predates 1st century CE." CreationDate="2021-11-08T16:26:33.580" UserId="8730" />
  <row Id="14677" PostId="10218" Score="0" Text="how should be the best way to prove to such kind of person,that the myth predates the 1st century CE?" CreationDate="2021-11-08T16:28:44.617" UserId="8730" />
  <row Id="14679" PostId="10218" Score="0" Text="Alright, I understand now. &amp; it looks like there's an offer of an Answer presently :-)" CreationDate="2021-11-08T18:28:36.223" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14678" PostId="10219" Score="0" Text="thanx alot for the answer..would you tell me plz,what scientific method by which,they dated such vases?" CreationDate="2021-11-08T18:26:19.833" UserId="8730" />
  <row Id="14680" PostId="10219" Score="2" Text="Generally for this period either [Rehydroxylation dating](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehydroxylation_dating) or [indirect radiocarbon dating](https://www.archaeology.org/issues/406-2101/features/9265-pottery-carbon-dating) (that is, you don't try to date the ceramics but the remaining traces of the content). These findings are compared with [dendrochronological dating](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrochronology) from the same site if available. A more relative dating method still in use is [seriation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seriation_(archaeology))" CreationDate="2021-11-09T08:19:13.390" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="15846" PostId="10221" Score="0" Text="I did come across this reference to the two shells representing the sexes, but they seem distinct from the recurring form of twin staves, and I haven't seen anything about specific staves being male or female in form." CreationDate="2022-01-26T19:58:39.917" UserId="4601" />
  <row Id="14685" PostId="10222" Score="0" Text="Mind you Menelaus and Helen are not considered historically attested." CreationDate="2021-11-12T06:30:48.173" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="14707" PostId="10222" Score="0" Text="What about Helen of Laconia?" CreationDate="2021-11-20T11:00:30.537" UserId="2654" />
  <row Id="14687" PostId="10224" Score="1" Text="To confirm that *&quot;Nephele,* literally 'Cloud,' is a . . . term for Oceanids,&quot; see [Aristophanes *Clouds* 275ff.](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0241%3Acard%3D275), in which the play's eponymous chorus, in their opening lines, refer to Oceanus as &quot;father.&quot;" CreationDate="2021-11-13T17:47:10.550" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14688" PostId="10224" Score="0" Text="Right you are. It seems that my intention of making that point was stated a bit obscurely: I was trying to suggest that maybe Fry is using the word less as a character's proper name rather than simply a different way of saying &quot;an Oceanid.&quot; I think that's still a stretch, but there it is; I've Edited accordingly." CreationDate="2021-11-13T20:38:56.773" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14691" PostId="10225" Score="0" Text="Oh, kudos on noting the connection between Cadmus and Athamas; I'd completely neglected to consider that. Yes, indeed, if Fry's Nephele = the mother of Phrixus &amp; Helle, then that would mean that Athamas divorced Nephele in order to marry her own great-granddaughter Ino! It wouldn't be the strangest thing to happen in Greek myth (esp. allowing that Nephele is likely supposed to be immortal), but in the absence of any sources for this, it's a pretty bizarre connection for _Mythos_ to make." CreationDate="2021-11-13T21:19:56.140" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14692" PostId="10225" Score="1" Text="@Adinkra I think especially given the silence. The Greeks weren't always consistent with chronology, but something of that caliber would have been noticed, mentioned, and perhaps dramatized by Euripides." CreationDate="2021-11-13T22:30:56.287" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14695" PostId="10225" Score="0" Text="@cmw In this case I would say that Graves' equation Telephassa=Argiope is somewhat justified. Even Kerenyi accepts it, pointing out that they are both lunar names." CreationDate="2021-11-14T11:50:09.200" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14693" PostId="10226" Score="0" Text="Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer." CreationDate="2021-11-14T11:12:51.817" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="14694" PostId="10227" Score="0" Text="Does Moses parting the Red Sea count?" CreationDate="2021-11-14T11:21:14.937" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="14696" PostId="10227" Score="1" Text="Commanding invisible spirits to move thing doesn't cut it?  Because off the top of my head, I think it would be explained as that." CreationDate="2021-11-14T17:04:44.957" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14697" PostId="10227" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka I thought of that as being close, but in context it seems less like a true &quot;power&quot; per say, and more of a boon granted to Moses by God under specific circumstances for a specific purpose. Based on the story as I understand it, he would not of been thought capable of then levitating a boulder or such, just being the instrument of God's power under specific circumstances. I may be in error though as I am not very familiar with the Bible." CreationDate="2021-11-14T21:40:02.013" UserId="8754" />
  <row Id="14702" PostId="10227" Score="0" Text="@Mary Commanding invisible spirits produces a similar effect, but since then it's more of a power of communication or bargaining it isn't quite the same in my opinion. Though that does bring to mind why a power that seems so simple and easy to describe would be relatively rare or absent. Because people in supernatural folklore/myth tended to anthropomorphize objects/forces so much that it was actually might of been more of a leap for someone to work magic without some kind of bargaining or communication." CreationDate="2021-11-15T01:22:31.650" UserId="8754" />
  <row Id="14701" PostId="10228" Score="0" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2021-11-15T00:08:20.417" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="14726" PostId="10230" Score="0" Text="Fascinating! Thank you, I thought that India was the best bet. Glad to see an example." CreationDate="2021-11-22T18:26:55.810" UserId="8754" />
  <row Id="14703" PostId="10232" Score="1" Text="I divided this into paragraphs, it's a very interesting question, but a massive wall of text was really daunting to read lol" CreationDate="2021-11-16T07:56:51.600" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="14704" PostId="10232" Score="0" Text="Thanks. I'm sure you know the audience here much better than I do. But I've reverted the title, which in the edit was grammatically incorrect (&quot;that's&quot;) and also misleading insofar as it called the cards &quot;Russian&quot;. They were known in Russia, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they originated outside of that country, such as in France or Germany." CreationDate="2021-11-17T08:44:28.887" UserDisplayName="user1637" />
  <row Id="14705" PostId="10232" Score="0" Text="Why is &quot;that's&quot; grammatically incorrect? Regardless, I'm mainly trying to make the title a question; I'll rephrase. Please edit further as you see fit." CreationDate="2021-11-17T08:46:02.047" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="14711" PostId="10232" Score="0" Text="If I'm reading the edit record right (and it's now so spaghetti-like that I may not be), you changed the title to &quot;What is the origin of Russian fortune telling cards that's divided into four triangles?&quot; &quot;That's&quot; is wrong there because the &quot;is&quot; that is contracted to &quot;'s&quot; is singular, whereas the word &quot;cards&quot; is plural." CreationDate="2021-11-20T22:20:15.043" UserDisplayName="user1637" />
  <row Id="14717" PostId="10234" Score="0" Text="This timeline might help https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/6481/is-it-possible-to-build-a-timeline-for-greek-mythology" CreationDate="2021-11-21T20:58:23.097" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="14708" PostId="10236" Score="0" Text="It’s real enough in its own way, but not in the way that Parmenides of Elea defined reality, with his radical claim that truth is one.  Greek myth routinely traffics in multiple contradictory versions. And the dating of Theseus, relative to other mythic heroes, is very much a case in point. Some make him an Argonaut, but Euripides’ *Medea* presents Aegeus complaining of lifelong infertility *after* the Argonautic Quest.  And relative to archaeology (though that is always a problematic relation), the Labyrinth story seemingly evokes Minoan neopalatial (~C18–15 B.C.)." CreationDate="2021-11-20T16:39:04.210" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14712" PostId="10236" Score="1" Text="@BrianDonovan I would consider the origin of the heroes in Greek mythology to be a separate question from what OP asked, at least how it's worded now, so I wouldn't exactly consider the Minoan provenance of the Minotaur story (which may not even have originally included Theseus!) as relevant. But you're right that Theseus is very much difficult to pin down, since Attic writers tried to shoehorn him in every event, even where he clearly doesn't belong." CreationDate="2021-11-20T23:35:54.977" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14713" PostId="10236" Score="0" Text="I once called BS on a lecturer who claimed that Horatio Nelson (1758–1805) played a commanding role in a certain naval action of the early 1760s; but I would never similarly presume to tell ancient Attic writers in which myths Theseus does or doesn't belong. Pace Schliemann *et al.,* myth is not history; it is not obliged to conform to actuality, consistency, or probability." CreationDate="2021-11-21T13:59:59.450" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14714" PostId="10236" Score="0" Text="Also, the sons of Oedipus fought and killed one another during the war of the Seven Against Thebes; among the Epigoni, Oedipus's bloodline is represented by his grandsons (though his sons are also his half-brothers, and his grandsons thus also his nephews)." CreationDate="2021-11-21T14:09:11.063" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="14715" PostId="10236" Score="0" Text="@BrianDonovan I do think even the ancients had a difficult time grasping that, although it's unfortunately impossible to reconstruct exactly what they were thinking when they wrote a story that contradicted another or denied a story altogether. I do know that, especially the later we go, the more the poets' tales are considered historical yet heavily embellished. So you may not have told an Attic writer that Theseus wasn't around for Oedipus, but Greeks were fine doign so. Cf. e.g. Pindar *Olympians* 1 in which he denies the older stories of Tantalus' sacrifice of his son." CreationDate="2021-11-21T14:20:05.880" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="14716" PostId="10236" Score="0" Text="What they accepted for truth or embellishment was argued even then, but they were an argumentative bunch." CreationDate="2021-11-21T14:20:40.440" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16534" PostId="10236" Score="0" Text="Heracleian syncretism has a lot to do with this." CreationDate="2023-11-15T23:57:42.553" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="14728" PostId="10240" Score="1" Text="I'm curious what's the source for describing Zeus' throne as black marble. I do see it repeated in a number of fictional works and on the internet, but I haven't found a scholarly or historical source. In Julian's *Caesars* described it as &quot;more brilliant than silver, but paler than gold&quot; and suggested it could be *ḗlektron*." CreationDate="2021-11-23T09:53:15.070" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="14730" PostId="10240" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore - I have only researched on the internet, but most seem to source Robert Graves. I think specifically his book, The Greek Myths." CreationDate="2021-11-23T16:35:00.580" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="14731" PostId="10240" Score="2" Text="Ah. It's from the story &quot;The Palace of Olympus&quot; by Robert Graves. That's a literary work rather than a scholarly one." CreationDate="2021-11-24T07:20:49.717" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="14729" PostId="10241" Score="1" Text="Isn't ancient alabaster light colored?" CreationDate="2021-11-23T09:58:11.130" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="14732" PostId="10241" Score="1" Text="there's a black color version as well, for example [this statue](https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2018/5/22/4/d/c/4dc4d73c-7e3a-4172-a016-58e90b7290a6.jpg) is Egyptian black alabaster" CreationDate="2021-11-24T08:43:40.160" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14733" PostId="10241" Score="1" Text="Black alabaster is very rare and supposedly only sourced from three mines in the world; in Oklahoma, China, and Italy. I do not believe it was available in antiquity. Google image of your link show an auction saying that's a work from France in the 1960s; the &quot;Egyptian&quot; here refers to the design of the cat, not the material." CreationDate="2021-11-24T09:10:25.820" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="14735" PostId="10243" Score="1" Text="While not having exhaustive knowledge, I doubt it.  I've read passages talking about sacrifices that do not discuss color at all, and also passages talking about why certain practices were done (&quot;Why can't you bring ivy into this temple?&quot;) that would make it implausible at least they did not ask &quot;Why are all sacrificial animals white?&quot;" CreationDate="2021-11-25T03:35:21.660" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="14736" PostId="10247" Score="1" Text="Thanks! I searched Iliad for &quot;white&quot; in the Greek text, but didn't see this: `οἴσετε ἄρν᾽, ἕτερον λευκόν, ἑτέρην δὲ μέλαιναν,`. I'll check the other references too. I bet this has to do with the snowcap on most mountains e.g. Olympus." CreationDate="2021-11-25T14:37:45.927" UserId="8780" />
  <row Id="14737" PostId="10249" Score="0" Text="Thanks, I'll tell her that. Although, is the naming confusion between the river Styx and the goddess Styx intentional or happenstance ?" CreationDate="2021-11-26T13:05:38.723" UserId="8792" />
  <row Id="14740" PostId="10249" Score="0" Text="It's intentional in the same sense as Hades is the name of the deity and of the underworld. This was not uncommon in the ancient world. &quot;Ra&quot; is both the name of the sun deity and the sun itself in ancient Egyptian for example." CreationDate="2021-11-27T15:08:44.393" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14738" PostId="10250" Score="1" Text="Great Answer! If for whatever reason my Edit doesn't look like what you were going for, feel free to Roll Back my changes. (It seemed like you were trying to insert the image from the AncientHistoryLists webpage into the body of your text, hence my having added it in, but I could've been mistaken.)" CreationDate="2021-11-27T00:25:26.650" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="14739" PostId="10250" Score="1" Text="@Adinkra Thank you. you did a wonderful job of editing my response. Thank you!" CreationDate="2021-11-27T05:06:36.303" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="14744" PostId="10251" Score="0" Text="There have not always been 12 months in a year.  For example, the Roman calendar had 10 months until extras were added.  Besides, there are 13 lunar cycles in a year, not 12." CreationDate="2021-11-28T11:24:32.640" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="14745" PostId="10251" Score="0" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2021-11-28T11:24:39.483" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="14746" PostId="10251" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka The roman calendar came much, much later than the egyptian and babylonian calendars. It had 10 months, for a while (eventually they came around to the more natural 12 as well), but that is not relevant because I am not talking of civil months but astronomical months. Each lunar cycle has 29,5 days and there are 12.3 lunar cycles in a year." CreationDate="2021-11-28T14:25:33.407" UserId="7845" />
  <row Id="14742" PostId="10252" Score="0" Text="Maybe try also in History of math &amp; science SE?" CreationDate="2021-11-27T19:12:29.360" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="14749" PostId="10252" Score="0" Text="I agree with Mauricio, this doesn't seem to tie into myth or folklore." CreationDate="2021-11-29T23:48:51.553" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="14751" PostId="10252" Score="0" Text="See [Babylonian astrology: Astral medicine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_astrology#Astral_medicine), [Babylonian calendar: Months](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_calendar#Months), [MUL.APIN: Path of the Moon - the Pre-Zodiac](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUL.APIN#Path_of_the_Moon_-_the_Pre-Zodiac), [Babylonian star catalogues: MUL.APIN](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_star_catalogues#MUL.APIN), and [Babylonian star catalogues: Zodiacal constellations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_star_catalogues#Zodiacal_constellations)." CreationDate="2021-12-03T15:52:21.930" UserId="6370" />
  <row Id="14750" PostId="10253" Score="0" Text="I think this is a better fit for History.SE. It's not asking about the mythology or folklore itself, but rather for ancient writings on it, which is the provenance of history." CreationDate="2021-11-29T23:51:05.377" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="14747" PostId="10254" Score="0" Text="thank you codosaur.. I know that such belief, was not a secret  not known by the non Egyptians ... just need some sources,outside the Egyptian inscriptions, that mention it,if there is any." CreationDate="2021-11-28T17:44:33.897" UserId="8730" />
  <row Id="14748" PostId="10254" Score="1" Text="Well, for example, the full name of Cleopatra is *Cleopatra VII Thea Philopator* (“Cleopatra the Father-Loving Goddess”)" CreationDate="2021-11-28T18:18:13.330" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="14757" PostId="10260" Score="1" Text="Thanks. The last paragraph was extremely useful and has given me something more to consider and study. Didn't think about the alliteration at all." CreationDate="2021-12-09T17:55:48.127" UserId="8822" />
  <row Id="14758" PostId="10260" Score="0" Text="Glad to be of help. I added the full paragraph by Grundy since you were interested. Unfortunately it's not much." CreationDate="2021-12-09T21:03:33.983" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="14762" PostId="10263" Score="1" Text="I haven't heard of the idiom 'even Homer nods' before, and apparently I missed those verses you quote. Thank you for clearing this up for me." CreationDate="2021-12-12T12:21:46.093" UserId="8829" />
  <row Id="14763" PostId="10265" Score="1" Text="As always, the good answers have some meat in the last paragraph. Spent some time in the etymology dictionary today. The sketches of the 'stars' around Jupiter reminded me that I had studied that decades ago. This, of course, begs the question of who/when regarding the discovery, but that is more science/astronomy/history than mythology." CreationDate="2021-12-12T23:08:24.187" UserId="8822" />
  <row Id="14764" PostId="10265" Score="1" Text="Because of low reflectivity and distance, it seems we didn't even know the surface was cratered until the late 1970s when Voyager took images. So, not before then." CreationDate="2021-12-13T05:47:08.430" UserId="8822" />
  <row Id="14765" PostId="10267" Score="2" Text="Thank you for the edit Semaphore! You've definitely helped make it read a lot better" CreationDate="2021-12-14T18:49:59.293" UserId="8590" />
  <row Id="15776" PostId="10267" Score="1" Text="In reading about Assipattle and the Stoor Worm, I saw some reference to the Mester Stoor Worm being the creature in the story, but that there were also other Stoor Worms. Could these be the _nine fearful curses_ that plague mankind?" CreationDate="2021-12-18T12:34:51.490" UserId="8822" />
  <row Id="15780" PostId="10267" Score="0" Text="I hadn't thought of it like that before but that's definitely another possibility, that they're a species of nine with their king Mester S. Worm as the most terrible. Thanks for suggestion, I don't think I would've come up with it on my own" CreationDate="2021-12-20T00:50:04.390" UserId="8590" />
  <row Id="15767" PostId="10269" Score="1" Text="Note that Amaterasu sent Ninigi to rule 'Ashihara no Nakatsukuni', which is not fully synonymous with Japan. Whereas after Jimmu launched his conquest of the east, he becomes described as &quot;ruling the world (i.e. Japan)&quot; / &quot;acceded to the imperial title&quot;. So a tautological answer here is because Ninigi wasn't an emperor of Japan. Of course, that's not very helpful." CreationDate="2021-12-16T09:14:09.320" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15766" PostId="10270" Score="1" Text="To add to this, Ninigi and the next two generations are said to have ruled Kyushu; Jimmu's conquest took him to Yamato, which is now central Japan." CreationDate="2021-12-16T08:35:05.317" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15775" PostId="10274" Score="0" Text="Myths aren't even consistent about whether a given minor god is his child." CreationDate="2021-12-18T00:44:31.473" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="15779" PostId="10274" Score="1" Text="You can see a full list here: https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/ZeusFamily.html" CreationDate="2021-12-18T06:15:12.007" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15781" PostId="10278" Score="1" Text="This is an amazing answer, thanks!" CreationDate="2021-12-23T05:24:49.137" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15786" PostId="10283" Score="1" Text="Ah, thank you. I think I'd glossed over that as I was reading that page before, thinking it was talking instead about sculptures further up the building." CreationDate="2021-12-28T17:56:16.257" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="15787" PostId="10284" Score="0" Text="You might want to forget this site and ask Jared Simard at NYU, who did his dissertation on NYC Classical art and specifically Rockefeller." CreationDate="2021-12-30T04:20:15.063" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15788" PostId="10284" Score="0" Text="I'll check him out, thanks. I'm still hoping that someone on here might have some additional insight, though, considering the fame of this statue. (Well, it could just be that I feel some attachment to it because it's the 1st representation of the Titan that I saw where he actually looked kinda kool, &amp; powerful, in spite of his punishment.)" CreationDate="2021-12-30T04:34:13.040" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="15790" PostId="10286" Score="0" Text="Taking an oath by a god implied that god would punish you for taking his name in vain if you broke it.  For a god to swear by another god would require that god to have the power to punish you to be plausible.  As for swearing by himself. . . ." CreationDate="2022-01-01T00:31:23.970" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="15791" PostId="10286" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the question. I had that same thought when I saw the other question bumped." CreationDate="2022-01-02T03:07:26.517" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15792" PostId="10286" Score="0" Text="Note that the stated reason the Olympic gods swear on the Styx, is that the penalty for breaking such an oath is to be cut off from the rest of the gods for 9 years. That... doesn't really matter for mortals." CreationDate="2022-01-02T20:04:23.817" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15802" PostId="10290" Score="1" Text="When it comes to these things, it's almost always possibility #5." CreationDate="2022-01-09T06:09:32.570" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15801" PostId="10292" Score="1" Text="Not sure if it is explicit in Hinduism, but usually in Bhuddism you find six realms of rebirth that includes: Deva (heavenly, god), Asura (demigod), Manusya (human), Tiryak (animals), Preta (ghosts), and Naraka (demons)." CreationDate="2022-01-08T20:14:02.320" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15820" PostId="10292" Score="0" Text="@Mauricio is it random or is it based on if you were a good or bad person in your previous life?" CreationDate="2022-01-19T20:08:55.940" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15823" PostId="10292" Score="0" Text="It is not random, it depends on the Bhuddist tradition, usually there is some kind of &quot;karma credit&quot; for doing good deeds that you accumulate during your lifetime that allows you to go up or down in the quality of your rebirth." CreationDate="2022-01-21T14:25:05.867" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15827" PostId="10292" Score="0" Text="@Mauricio so is being reborn as a god is the highest quality?" CreationDate="2022-01-23T04:54:14.983" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15828" PostId="10292" Score="1" Text="no the ultimate goal is to break the cycle of rebirth (nirvana) only those that are human or above can reach it" CreationDate="2022-01-23T11:20:06.533" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16029" PostId="10292" Score="0" Text="You might want to ask this [at the Hinduism site](https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/) instead." CreationDate="2022-07-01T14:48:27.030" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15803" PostId="10293" Score="0" Text="Great detail, thanks for the comment! I interpret your evidence more leaning to possibility 3 but as you explain it is very subtle. Do you have any insight on the mortality of Pandora?" CreationDate="2022-01-11T11:35:22.153" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15812" PostId="10293" Score="1" Text="You're welcome. I've added a section, &quot;Death and Mortality,&quot; to my Answer, essentially saying that I think she was a regular mortal human woman, although I haven't found an ancient source explicitly saying: &quot;she was mortal and eventually died.&quot;" CreationDate="2022-01-16T15:37:39.053" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="15807" PostId="10295" Score="0" Text="Welcome to the site. Small note: Kal (קל) in Hebrew means &quot;lightweight&quot; or &quot;easy&quot;. I have heard several times, though, that Kal-El might have been derived from Kol-El, &quot;the voice of God&quot;." CreationDate="2022-01-12T06:36:26.377" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="15819" PostId="10298" Score="0" Text="Wagner's Nibelungs have sometimes been interpreted as an antisemitic trope." CreationDate="2022-01-19T14:16:59.090" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="15866" PostId="10298" Score="0" Text="https://t.co/bt6JkPxHQo (I copied this link from a Twitter post, but it redirects) evidence of antisemitism in goblins" CreationDate="2022-02-13T13:40:32.360" UserId="8910" />
  <row Id="15809" PostId="10299" Score="0" Text="Your question is vague.  Do you mean &quot;human who becomes a wolf&quot;?  Or something more specific?  (The answer to the first is that they are legion.)" CreationDate="2022-01-15T01:00:52.310" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="15818" PostId="10305" Score="1" Text="@Mauricio It does (potentially) - see the bolded part of the quote I supplied" CreationDate="2022-01-19T10:32:45.400" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15821" PostId="10307" Score="1" Text="The Garden of the Hesperides comes to mind, although it doesn't really fit your third bullet. Is this close to what you are looking for?" CreationDate="2022-01-21T09:48:25.117" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="15822" PostId="10307" Score="0" Text="There is the Heavenly Peach Garden in Chinese mythos but it might not fit point 2, or at least it is never said when it was created." CreationDate="2022-01-21T13:47:37.030" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15824" PostId="10307" Score="0" Text="I don't think either of those quite fit, they seem more special gardens than gardens connected to creation etc." CreationDate="2022-01-21T15:54:59.570" UserId="4601" />
  <row Id="15825" PostId="10307" Score="0" Text="When you say &quot;creation,&quot; do you mean _necessarily linked to early humans_ , such as the manner in which the Garden of Eden seems to have been planted specifically to be the home of the first humans? Or do you mean rather more generally that it needs to be clear in some way that this place existed close to the beginning of time or of a particular era?" CreationDate="2022-01-21T18:29:07.523" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="15826" PostId="10307" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra Not necessarily the creation of mankind, moreso the world, life itself, maybe gods themselves, and so on." CreationDate="2022-01-22T03:29:14.937" UserId="4601" />
  <row Id="15829" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="Many polytheistic religions have an unlimited number of gods. Hindu and Chinese come to mind." CreationDate="2022-01-24T09:24:13.777" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15830" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="Japanese *kami* is theoretically infinite but the pantheon of major deities isn't constantly growing. I'm not sure where you can draw the line on this. For example Graeco-Roman mythology allows for mortals to be deified, so does that not count as theoretically infinitely increasing gods?" CreationDate="2022-01-24T09:33:40.983" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15831" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore So the famous gods don't, it's just the unlimited minor ones that are constantly growing in number?" CreationDate="2022-01-24T11:37:36.180" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15832" PostId="10311" Score="1" Text="I think it is hard to define the main pantheon for any mythology if it is not self-established by the myths themselves." CreationDate="2022-01-24T13:53:07.010" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15833" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="And a lot of myths are inconsistent." CreationDate="2022-01-25T01:19:18.877" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="15834" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="@Mauricio I know the Japanese use the number 8 million to express unlimited amount of gods" CreationDate="2022-01-25T07:37:43.587" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15835" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="Could you define what you mean by pantheon? If by that you mean the entirety of all deities within a mythology, then most of them have an unlimited number of gods." CreationDate="2022-01-25T08:36:01.140" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15836" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="@Orionixe it's more accurate to translate *kami* as spirits. &quot;8 million kami&quot; is an expressing denoting that the spirits are multitudinous, because in Japanese cosmology, everything from the winds to the roads can have a spirit. It's not really clear that the total number of spirits are actually increasing, or if the objects are playing host to some aspect of divinity, or that there are infinite spirits." CreationDate="2022-01-25T09:34:00.883" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15839" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore I asked my Japanese friend and he said 8 million represents unlimited amount, so I'm not sure" CreationDate="2022-01-25T15:08:30.020" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15840" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="@Mauricio what do you mean by most of them?" CreationDate="2022-01-25T22:22:30.253" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15841" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="Most= every polytheistic mythologies/religions with a large range of different types of deities" CreationDate="2022-01-25T22:25:41.413" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15842" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="@Mauricio They have unlimited?" CreationDate="2022-01-26T00:31:32.823" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15843" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="Example: There are about 3000-4000 registered deities in Greek mythology, if any of them have an offspring from another god then you have one more god and so on. You can also have mortals be converted into gods." CreationDate="2022-01-26T10:35:43.870" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15844" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="If 8 million is already a surprising number, look for Hindu deities, the total number is estimated to be about 33 million." CreationDate="2022-01-26T10:36:41.757" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15845" PostId="10311" Score="0" Text="Let us [continue this discussion in chat](https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/133522/discussion-between-orionixe-and-mauricio)." CreationDate="2022-01-26T12:07:06.937" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15913" PostId="10315" Score="0" Text="The cross was a rune called [Naudiz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naudiz) long before it became a Christian symbol. The rune means &quot;need, distress&quot;." CreationDate="2022-03-21T08:13:56.527" UserId="5511" />
  <row Id="15847" PostId="10317" Score="0" Text="Is there any mythological basis for either?" CreationDate="2022-01-29T15:36:43.990" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="15848" PostId="10317" Score="0" Text="I don't know that's why I'm asking the question lmao" CreationDate="2022-01-29T20:57:55.930" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15849" PostId="10317" Score="0" Text="Do succubus produce reproductive cells? It is often said that succubus just steal human sperm for the incubus (who also has no seed)." CreationDate="2022-01-30T09:40:41.487" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15851" PostId="10318" Score="0" Text="Hmm. As Gods are epitomes of culture, there must be a relation to some form of art, almost by construction. I think we can do similar things for almost any pantheon. Maybe we can search for a more satisfying answer if you can clarify the relation to art that you seek." CreationDate="2022-02-06T14:02:56.873" UserId="3491" />
  <row Id="15853" PostId="10320" Score="4" Text="Can you please elaborate on how the Hanging Garden was a Garden of Eden? Also, it is not necessary or desirable to quote a Wikipedia article so extensively unless it directly answers the question in some way. People who are interested in learning more about the Hanging Gardens can head over to Wikipedia to read it in detail. We do not really want to become an archive of out of date Wiki articles. Thanks." CreationDate="2022-02-08T07:18:28.113" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15852" PostId="10321" Score="0" Text="From what I've read, in Jewish belief, demons are capable of reproduction. In Christianity they aren't, and Islam I have no info on." CreationDate="2022-02-08T00:59:41.310" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15854" PostId="10321" Score="0" Text="@Orionixe demon-demon reproduction? or human-demon ?" CreationDate="2022-02-08T17:34:30.023" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15857" PostId="10321" Score="0" Text="@Mauricio  And God said, &quot;Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind.&quot; And it was so (Genesis 1:24). &#xA;&#xA;From this verse I guess Demons can reproduce with each other since God made it that only 2 beings from the same species can reproduce." CreationDate="2022-02-10T02:46:39.570" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15858" PostId="10321" Score="0" Text="@Mauricio wait the Christian bishop Gregory of Nyssa described that demons could procreate with each other" CreationDate="2022-02-10T15:48:13.460" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15862" PostId="10321" Score="0" Text="If you have a citation on Demon-Demon reproduction, include it in your answer. It's always good to show what research you have done." CreationDate="2022-02-12T16:28:43.873" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="15860" PostId="10322" Score="0" Text="THAT is more of a philosophical question, only answerable from either the premise that the LDS is a true religion (so ask god) or it is a mythology (so why do mythologies form how they do? Ask a psychologist or anthropologist). Either way, I don't think you'll get a proper answer here." CreationDate="2022-02-12T16:22:26.123" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="15861" PostId="10322" Score="0" Text="I would assume that since the classic Christian view was that we have a divine spark within us, and we are children of God, it could be logically extended that we become like God if we prove worthy. It's not the nuttiest thing I've heard, even if it isn't what I believe." CreationDate="2022-02-12T16:25:22.550" UserId="7117" />
  <row Id="15859" PostId="10325" Score="0" Text="What counts as &quot;official&quot; marriage? I mean, I cannot recall any myth of gods having a wedding." CreationDate="2022-02-11T10:13:55.177" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15869" PostId="10325" Score="1" Text="@Semaphore Of course there are Ancient Greek wedding myths! Examples: Thetis and Peleus, and Zeus and Hera." CreationDate="2022-02-14T10:28:37.070" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15870" PostId="10325" Score="1" Text="@Mauricio Peleus was not a god; although Zeus's wedding is a good example my mind blanked on, thanks. Still, the question stands, what's the determinant here of &quot;official&quot;? Hesiod says Zeus married or made into wives a succession of goddesses (Metis, Themis, Eurynome, Demeter, Mnemosyne, and Leto) before Hera, and it's not evident that each involved a ceremony." CreationDate="2022-02-14T20:12:07.360" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15871" PostId="10325" Score="1" Text="@Semaphore Peleus wasn’t but Thetis can still be considered a deity. Other gods that are considered “officially” married are Aphrodite and Hephaestus, Hades and Persefone, Poseidon and Anphitrite, and Eros and Psyche (who also had a wedding)." CreationDate="2022-02-14T21:14:31.217" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15872" PostId="10325" Score="0" Text="Stories with Hymenaios or any of the other Erotes might yield some results (I have no time to search due to a very busy schedule)" CreationDate="2022-02-15T18:01:36.343" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="15876" PostId="10326" Score="0" Text="You say there are several, can you reference some of them?" CreationDate="2022-02-16T19:43:05.777" UserId="4601" />
  <row Id="15884" PostId="10326" Score="0" Text="@rek I added a few more places and explained some of the connections I see." CreationDate="2022-02-21T00:25:56.653" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15874" PostId="10331" Score="0" Text="Can you give more details who the &quot;Cambridge researchers&quot; are and where this was published? What is that date (October/November) based on? Physical calculation (on what basis) or historical texts or what else?" CreationDate="2022-02-15T23:21:25.383" UserId="6880" />
  <row Id="16614" PostId="10332" Score="0" Text="How do you think any image of Mary and Jesus significantly different from Isis and Horus?" CreationDate="2024-03-02T23:58:00.800" UserId="9236" />
  <row Id="16615" PostId="10332" Score="1" Text="@RobbieGoodwin invert the question, has the image of Isis being made more similar to that of Mary after a certain period" CreationDate="2024-03-03T00:54:13.050" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16617" PostId="10332" Score="0" Text="@RobbieGoodwin the question comes from the influence of Christianity in other mythologies. There have been attempts to answer this question in the direction Egyptian mythology influencing Christianity. However I am not interested in that, I can see the parallelism. I am talking about Egyptian mythology getting feed back some influence from Christianity due to Christian conquest of Egypt. You are asking me for sources for that, but that is whole question! If I had it I would not be asking. A user below said to have something, but the users never replied back with it." CreationDate="2024-03-03T18:25:47.233" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16619" PostId="10332" Score="0" Text="Either this is pure speculation with no foundation, or something you heard, read or saw led you to ask. What other possibilities could there be?&#xA;&#xA;We knew the Question was 'about' the influence of Christianity in other mythologies; thanks. If it 'comes from' that influence, where is the evidence?&#xA;&#xA;Again, can you cite any sources, or this a purely random Question?&#xA;&#xA;'Christian conquest of Egypt' is a new clue but how much d'you suggest it changes?" CreationDate="2024-03-03T19:00:14.477" UserId="9236" />
  <row Id="16623" PostId="10332" Score="0" Text="@RobbieGoodwin take it as a purely random curious question (even if the motivation is very clear). I do not see any ground rule against it. If the answer is &quot;no, and if there is it is not well known&quot; I agree to accept it..." CreationDate="2024-03-03T19:15:54.233" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16624" PostId="10332" Score="0" Text="OK… before we get thrown into Chat for extended discussion, the Answer is 'No, or if there is it's not well known.' Please accept that.&#xA;&#xA;If you'd had a basis other than idle, unsupported speculation, that might be very different. Please accept that also." CreationDate="2024-03-03T19:28:34.263" UserId="9236" />
  <row Id="16626" PostId="10332" Score="0" Text="@RobbieGoodwin I can only say that a question barely fits as a speculation. Thanks for your take on the question btw." CreationDate="2024-03-03T20:42:20.457" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16628" PostId="10332" Score="0" Text="@RobbieGoodwin if somebody someone ask you, &quot;I have seen that your brother plays chess, have you ever played chess?&quot; would you qualify that question of speculation? According to Merrian-Webster, speculating can mean to &quot;ponder a subject&quot; but I guess you meant something different. We can go to the chat if you have a different question." CreationDate="2024-03-03T22:22:27.953" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15877" PostId="10333" Score="0" Text="Do legends and fairy tales count here?" CreationDate="2022-02-18T15:14:22.557" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15878" PostId="10333" Score="0" Text="Yes, dozens, maybe hundreds.  Are you after anything specific?" CreationDate="2022-02-18T22:04:58.420" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="15879" PostId="10333" Score="0" Text="Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer." CreationDate="2022-02-18T22:05:06.813" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="15880" PostId="10333" Score="0" Text="@Mauricio Yes, legends or fairy tales count. Is there a name of a specific legend/tale you could provide?" CreationDate="2022-02-19T05:20:18.063" UserId="9019" />
  <row Id="15881" PostId="10333" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka I’m just looking for any name of one of these stories that I could further research. Or if there is some kind of list of names of ones you could think of that would be greatly appreciated." CreationDate="2022-02-19T05:21:18.693" UserId="9019" />
  <row Id="15882" PostId="10333" Score="1" Text="Something like this would work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elves_and_the_Shoemaker ?" CreationDate="2022-02-19T21:01:15.050" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15888" PostId="10336" Score="0" Text="I could not find any clear quote in the Illiad for why he chose to side with the Greeks.  Why would he have chosen otherwise?" CreationDate="2022-03-01T16:03:03.037" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15927" PostId="10336" Score="0" Text="IIRC Hermes also guided Priam through the Achaean camp to recover Hector's body, so he might not have been completely one sided" CreationDate="2022-04-11T19:15:46.157" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="15889" PostId="10338" Score="1" Text="What references have you found to this group?" CreationDate="2022-03-03T00:28:46.500" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="15893" PostId="10341" Score="1" Text="Do you have evidence that the concept of infinity existed in that culture?  If not then no, you can't correctly think of infinity." CreationDate="2022-03-06T10:42:46.607" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="15894" PostId="10341" Score="0" Text="You can't really think of infinity gods, except as a group. If you have to think about each god individually, then you probably won't be able to get to a billion even if you think of one every second for 8 hours a day for the rest of your live. That's just arguing semantics, though; no telling what your source meant without knowing what it is." CreationDate="2022-03-06T15:06:59.710" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="15898" PostId="10341" Score="0" Text="From your link: `Their number is usually given as 400 + 1 as a kind of shorthand for &quot;without number&quot; or innumerable.` So yes, essentially, it's &quot;infinite&quot; as described by culture that did not have a clear mathematical concept of &quot;infinite&quot;. It's not uncommon for ancient cultures to use an arbitrarily large number to represent the idea that it's an uncountably large number. I'm not sure what you're asking though, do you have reason to dispute this source?" CreationDate="2022-03-08T10:09:19.667" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15900" PostId="10341" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore it could be that the number of gods is always growing, instead of it being a set constant number" CreationDate="2022-03-11T01:25:42.663" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15901" PostId="10341" Score="0" Text="@Orionixe I think you're still misunderstanding; in historical language like this, they're not saying the number is *literally* 400 or 401; instead it's a way of saying &quot;infinite&quot; before they invented the concept of infinity. For example in Classical Chinese the number &quot;9&quot; often represents the idea of &quot;maximum&quot; rather than literally nine." CreationDate="2022-03-13T14:57:00.170" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15902" PostId="10341" Score="0" Text="Possible duplicate: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/10311/are-the-yoruba-and-japanese-pantheons-the-only-ones-to-have-an-infinite-increasi" CreationDate="2022-03-14T10:19:15.400" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15905" PostId="10341" Score="0" Text="@Semaphore I'm well aware of that, in the article it says the &quot;the number of orishas is commonly giving as 400+1 to represent how limitless they are&quot;" CreationDate="2022-03-15T17:03:18.800" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="15897" PostId="10344" Score="1" Text="Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it's hard to tell exactly what you're asking." CreationDate="2022-03-08T07:48:43.367" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="15899" PostId="10345" Score="0" Text="Thank you so much! I believe this is correct. I thought it was Greek mythology because it was quite similar to the story of Oedipus." CreationDate="2022-03-09T08:18:24.830" UserId="9063" />
  <row Id="15914" PostId="10357" Score="3" Text="It's also in [The Story of Three Wonderful Beggars][1] and  many other fairy tales, but I do note that in all the fairy tales, the young man escapes, and the older man who has been sending him on quests to die is the victim.  Also, the broken bridge is an additional element.  Personally, I suspect a literary tale.&#xA;&#xA;&#xA;  [1]: http://mythfolklore.net/andrewlang/081.htm" CreationDate="2022-03-27T00:39:56.747" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="15915" PostId="10357" Score="0" Text="@Mary Good find!" CreationDate="2022-03-27T00:47:43.447" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15916" PostId="10358" Score="2" Text="Are you asking if the Greek myth is unchanged from its Indo-European precursor? Almost surely not and there's no way to definitively answer this. We just don't have actual records and comparative studies don't give you the level of details you'll need for such precision." CreationDate="2022-03-31T07:39:33.793" UserId="108" />
  <row Id="15917" PostId="10358" Score="1" Text="@Semaphore I think you are correct, a defining characteristic of most mythological stories is that they evolve in time, while some aspects might be inherited from an earlier Indo-European myth, the lack of concrete data and sources significantly impairs our ability to be sure. Greek mythology definitely changed over time and borrowed and inherited a lot from other mythologies. I have no time these days for an answer but this might steer someone in the right direction." CreationDate="2022-04-01T15:59:31.753" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="16111" PostId="10361" Score="0" Text="I think you're right, but adding some sources would make this a good answer. Also, a minor quibble, but from what I understand her Latin name is also Hecate, but she was often called Trivia. Looking at the Theoi page, it seems only Seneca calls her that in his *Medea*, but perhaps you know of other sources? Lewis and Short mention that Lucretius, Propertius, and Vergil write of a Trivia, but they seem to refer to Diana instead." CreationDate="2022-09-06T17:53:09.273" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15919" PostId="10362" Score="1" Text="Hi Evan and welcome to the site! Stackexchange sites aren't like regular forums where members simply state their views. These sites are intended to be community-based Q&amp;A sites, with (if possible) sourced answers and not presentation of opinions. I recommend taking the [tour](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/tour) to understand how things work around here." CreationDate="2022-04-05T03:13:27.520" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="15920" PostId="10362" Score="0" Text="While opinion and interpretation can be valuable, this would be improved by giving a stronger basis for your opinion." CreationDate="2022-04-05T07:37:49.833" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="15921" PostId="10366" Score="2" Text="Thank you for your advice." CreationDate="2022-04-08T10:26:11.670" UserId="9138" />
  <row Id="15923" PostId="10366" Score="0" Text="[Eisler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Eisler)'s book is available online [here](https://archive.org/details/weltenmantelundh02eisl/page/410/) - i think Haavio refers to Note 3 that starts on p. 410. There, Eisler refers to &quot;Chagigah XII; Beresch. Rabba 10&quot; and cites (in german): _Wie hat Gott die Welt erschaffen? Er nahm zwei Hälften eines Eies und befruchtete die &quot;eine durch die andere“_ . Sadly, i wasn't able to determine the original text in [Bavli Chagigah 12a](https://www.sefaria.org/Chagigah.12a) or [12b](https://www.sefaria.org/Chagigah.12b)..." CreationDate="2022-04-08T10:55:21.250" UserDisplayName="tohuwawohu" />
  <row Id="15930" PostId="10372" Score="0" Text="It seems unlikely a festival would have 70 years between celebrations. Almost everyone that could pass on the tradition would die between celebrations." CreationDate="2022-04-14T16:03:04.580" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="15931" PostId="10372" Score="0" Text="@towr forget the 70 years. Anything similar in terms of the skins or the scalp?" CreationDate="2022-04-14T16:12:41.810" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="15933" PostId="10372" Score="0" Text="The only festival I can find on [this list](http://www.musesrealm.net/rome/festivalsinfo.html) that has anything with skins is Lupercalia. It's not inconceivable that through the process of Chinese whispers that might end up as the story above. But I'd hold out for someone with some actual expertise on Roman festivals to give a definite answer." CreationDate="2022-04-14T17:18:32.467" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="16346" PostId="10372" Score="0" Text="There was indeed a festival celebrated every seventy years, such that people could only attend it once in their lives." CreationDate="2023-04-15T01:02:36.500" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="16347" PostId="10372" Score="0" Text="@Mary can you please clarify? Which festival?" CreationDate="2023-04-15T17:24:53.323" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="15935" PostId="10374" Score="1" Text="The *interpretatio graeca* is a weak guide to the nature of the identified gods.  Witness the &quot;Hermes/Mercury -- Thoth -- Odin&quot; identification." CreationDate="2022-04-16T00:54:44.910" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="15936" PostId="10376" Score="2" Text="Some European folklore has mermaids that can put on and remove their tails with skins like a selkie's, only giving them a tail rather that transforming entirely.  I shall see if I can track down the reference." CreationDate="2022-04-17T02:07:35.853" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="15937" PostId="10378" Score="1" Text="Maybe it's more metaphorical, because the Sirens lead men to their death (which bring them to Hades's domain). I suppose you could always try emailing Pucci if nobody here is forthcoming with a definite answer. (If you google his name, you can find his email on his profile page on the Cornell University website)" CreationDate="2022-04-19T05:40:59.710" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="16418" PostId="10379" Score="0" Text="You may find the south Indian [Mahadevi akka](https://lingayatreligion.com/Sharanaru/Akkamahadevi) of interest." CreationDate="2023-06-29T04:08:49.120" UserId="6168" />
  <row Id="15976" PostId="10382" Score="2" Text="I've not read Pucci, so I'm a bit confused, but is he translating Ovid here? Is it direct or inferred?" CreationDate="2022-05-30T19:51:15.463" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15943" PostId="10385" Score="6" Text="The short and simple answer is that Greek mythology is neither logical nor consistent, since it is not the creation of a single mind, but an accumulation of beliefs and practices of a diverse group of people." CreationDate="2022-05-01T00:59:58.253" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15944" PostId="10385" Score="5" Text="I don't think you should look at the terms &quot;Titan&quot; and &quot;Nymph&quot; as if they denote species (if that's what you're doing). Nymphs are just minor nature deities. Not something different in kind from their forebears, but just different in power. I see it as more of a job description or role." CreationDate="2022-05-01T15:06:49.810" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="15942" PostId="10386" Score="0" Text="There's a lot of skepticism concerning temple prostitution. From what I understand, it's no longer credible. Do you have recent sources arguing a) that temple virgins actually existed, and b) that this is what is meant by it?" CreationDate="2022-05-01T00:57:38.233" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15947" PostId="10392" Score="1" Text="Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it's hard to tell exactly what you're asking." CreationDate="2022-05-08T06:06:06.303" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="15949" PostId="10392" Score="1" Text="Is the question not explicit? I have zero information on how Ra &amp; Isis came to conceive Bastet and would like to know as luch as possible about that story but neither Wikipedia nor Google  gave me an answer." CreationDate="2022-05-13T12:03:23.353" UserId="9206" />
  <row Id="15953" PostId="10392" Score="0" Text="Hans, to be more blunt than the Bot was, the Questions as it stands equates to something like &quot;will you do all the work for me?&quot; Other than a tenuous reference to Wikipedia, what research did you do and where did that leave you?" CreationDate="2022-05-14T23:39:51.617" UserId="9236" />
  <row Id="15951" PostId="10394" Score="1" Text="Crosspost of https://scifi.stackexchange.com/q/262998/30512" CreationDate="2022-05-14T08:20:55.180" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="15958" PostId="10394" Score="0" Text="Can you clarify that, please? Don’t you think “modern fiction about fairies” and “established part of fairy legend” suggest there is such a thing as “established fairy legend/lengendarium” when really, there are various stories about fairy or fairies, without too many common threads?&#xA;&#xA;Not to dredge deep in a Comment that isn’t an Answer, and taking Enid’s essays as way off, what, roughly, is “a lot of people?” Isn’t even “Gothic” a  solely modern label for a small subset? Doesn’t this - if not all - “modern fiction about fairies” belong squarely in that cross link at SF &amp; Fantasy?" CreationDate="2022-05-15T14:47:05.390" UserId="9236" />
  <row Id="15972" PostId="10394" Score="0" Text="Some fair points.  (At the same time, many people I talk to seem to *think* there is a much more established and coherent body of fairy legend than there really is, and that's really the point of the question.)  I suppose the dividing line may be more between &quot;intentionally and openly fictional&quot; and &quot;things that people have passed down as supposedly true at some point&quot;.  As for belonging at SF&amp;F, I'm not asking what's in the modern fiction about fairies, I'm asking about whether anything similar appears in folklore.  (Will remove the &quot;if not, who started it&quot;.)" CreationDate="2022-05-21T16:32:20.193" UserId="9214" />
  <row Id="15950" PostId="10398" Score="1" Text="Are you thinking in a more precise definition of portal? Would the rainbow bridge in Nordic myths or the world tree Yggdrasil count ?" CreationDate="2022-05-13T19:02:50.730" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="15955" PostId="10398" Score="1" Text="Can't you cite any of the several times you found that notion? I suggest it's rather rare, at best. Can you say how 'few &quot;portals&quot; per se' is different from plain old 'few portals'?" CreationDate="2022-05-14T23:56:08.707" UserId="9236" />
  <row Id="15988" PostId="10398" Score="0" Text="Are you looking for a passage into a different world/place which was given a non descriptive name? Because there's plenty of entrances which are described, like the golden gate of heaven." CreationDate="2022-06-08T13:46:14.697" UserId="4525" />
  <row Id="15956" PostId="10399" Score="0" Text="When you can't find anything… what can you find, and where does that start to fail?" CreationDate="2022-05-14T23:57:41.207" UserId="9236" />
  <row Id="15948" PostId="10403" Score="0" Text="The Wiki article doesn't go into detail here. Were these characteristics already in place when the Goblin Market was written?" CreationDate="2022-05-12T02:13:27.727" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15959" PostId="10406" Score="1" Text="Your answer fits the title, but not really the body of the question." CreationDate="2022-05-15T16:18:38.557" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="15970" PostId="10408" Score="0" Text="Define dragon, if you define it as large monstrous serpent you will find it in almost mythology." CreationDate="2022-05-20T22:41:22.053" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16133" PostId="10416" Score="0" Text="I found myself with the same issue. My main lecture is of Hesiodus, and there is no such reference to an Athena's high priest there" CreationDate="2022-09-25T17:35:22.690" UserId="9614" />
  <row Id="15977" PostId="10419" Score="0" Text="Wikipedia has a [family tree of Greek gods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_the_Greek_gods). I don't think it's complete, but it gets you quite a few extra names, and how they're related." CreationDate="2022-06-02T05:43:52.973" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="15979" PostId="10419" Score="1" Text="The Greeks never had a defined list." CreationDate="2022-06-03T00:49:37.877" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="15980" PostId="10419" Score="2" Text="https://www.theoi.com/greek-mythology/greek-gods.html" CreationDate="2022-06-04T02:18:26.077" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16032" PostId="10419" Score="0" Text="Maybe you want to start with the 12 Olympic gods: Hestia, Demeter, Hera, Zeus, Aphrodite,  Ares, Athena, Hephaestus, Apollon, Artemis, Hermes, Dionysus. Sometimes Hestia is replaced by Poseidon or by Hades, so I will throw those two in the list too." CreationDate="2022-07-07T08:27:02.053" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16043" PostId="10419" Score="0" Text="Are you sure those are Greek?" CreationDate="2022-07-21T00:37:49.377" UserId="5771" />
  <row Id="15982" PostId="10421" Score="1" Text="I like that idea, why is the Greek dragon so serpentine in shape?" CreationDate="2022-06-06T12:11:16.213" UserId="9240" />
  <row Id="15983" PostId="10421" Score="0" Text="I don't know why the drakontas is serpentine. The greeks have several versions, with  some having multiple heads. Dracōnes is the Latin name the Romans had, and was an evolution of the drakontas, and is the closest to our modern concept of a dragon, with 4 legs and wings. A Linnormr, is a type of dragon that is like a drakontas, but has two legs. A Wyvern, which is a variation of the word viper, is like a linnormr with two legs, but has wings." CreationDate="2022-06-06T14:47:57.013" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="15984" PostId="10421" Score="0" Text="Mušhuššu, pronounced mush·khush·shue, is a dragon-like creature from Mesopotamian mythology, with hind legs of an eagle, and forelegs of a lion, &#xA;Ušumgal, pronounced oosh-uhm-gahl, is a 4 legged winged dragon that can shape=shift." CreationDate="2022-06-06T14:51:03.753" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="15986" PostId="10425" Score="0" Text="I found the story this is it and probably what is really on the coin There Latona, as she leaned against a palm-tree—and against the tree most sacred to Minerva, brought forth twins, although their harsh step-mother, Juno, strove to interfere.—And from the island forced to fly by jealous Juno, on her breast she bore her children, twin Divinities. https://www.theoi.com/Text/OvidMetamorphoses6.html" CreationDate="2022-06-07T14:58:14.800" UserId="9286" />
  <row Id="15997" PostId="10428" Score="2" Text="According to [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#Superstitions_and_rituals), the number of lives is 7 in some countries (e.g. Germany, Italy) and 6 in some Arabic countries." CreationDate="2022-06-16T15:01:06.253" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="16005" PostId="10435" Score="2" Text="I don't think the gods in most pantheons are so easily divided into benevolent and malevolent. Like humans, it's often just how the mood strikes them. If you haven't gone in the direction of wikipedia yet, that would be my suggestion for [an overview of pantheons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pantheons) and the gods therein. And from there, if necessary, you could branch out to more primary/scholarly sources." CreationDate="2022-06-17T20:14:25.337" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="16006" PostId="10435" Score="1" Text="Not to mention that they are often wildly inconsistent." CreationDate="2022-06-18T01:17:49.557" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="16019" PostId="10435" Score="0" Text="Yes, the idea of a strict binary, good gods versus evil gods, is not found in most cultures. You haven't mentioned which pantheons you're trying to divide in this way, but I would hazard a guess that the reason you can't find good sources on this topic is that there aren't any. Even the Christian G-d has wanted to destroy humanity a few times." CreationDate="2022-06-21T22:55:11.137" UserId="4022" />
  <row Id="16022" PostId="10436" Score="0" Text="Not a complete answer because it's more of a hunch and vague memory, IIRC The god of Fortresses would be an entirely new god of war. Since the antichrist sees himself as a new god, the god of fortresses might very well be a manifestation of the Antichrist." CreationDate="2022-06-22T16:45:14.110" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="16110" PostId="10436" Score="0" Text="Doesn't the phrase, &quot;a god unknown to his ancestors&quot; imply that the aforementioned god of fortresses is new rather than a deity from some pre-existing religion? Regardless, people at the &quot;Biblical Hermeneutics&quot; StackExchange might be able to give some more insight into this question as well (though perhaps with less comparative mythology like you are asking about)." CreationDate="2022-09-06T15:30:44.457" UserId="6371" />
  <row Id="16132" PostId="10436" Score="0" Text="I don't know. I think &quot;a god unknown to his fathers&quot; may not necessarily mean a god whom his fathers had no knowledge of, but could mean a foreign god whom they knew about (like one from a neighboring tribe or people) but whom they themselves did not regard or worship. If it was a totally new god during the time of the Beast, why does it only mention his fathers in that regard &amp; rather not the entire world up until that point? Thanks for the mention of &quot;Biblical Hermeneutics&quot; StackExchange, which I may try, but I was looking for people knowledgeable in mythology in general, not in scripture." CreationDate="2022-09-25T21:29:53.183" UserId="9314" />
  <row Id="16023" PostId="10443" Score="0" Text="Just beginning my mythology journey. I wasn't aware of this personification/god distinction. Very helpful. As a follow-up, are you aware of a Greek &quot;god of&quot; day/night, or did the Greeks only have personifications?" CreationDate="2022-06-23T17:57:59.937" UserId="9328" />
  <row Id="16024" PostId="10443" Score="2" Text="@lowndrul In some eras, Apollo and Artemis were associated with day and night respectively (like how they were associated with the sun and moon), but I'm not aware of a god who specifically ruled over them the way Poseidon ruled over the sea. From a cultural perspective, the Greek gods tend to rule over things that are unpredictable: storms, the sea, death. Storms seem to strike randomly, so it makes sense to ask Zeus not to destroy you specifically—but night and day are constants and no amount of prayer will change them." CreationDate="2022-06-23T18:02:53.837" UserId="4022" />
  <row Id="16027" PostId="10448" Score="5" Text="Hello, and welcome to the site. Your answer would be greatly improved with sources for your claim." CreationDate="2022-06-29T19:02:52.683" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="16028" PostId="10449" Score="3" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2022-06-30T20:56:13.817" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16034" PostId="10457" Score="0" Text="Thank you for this answer! It definitely helped me explore other avenues, and find the word léōntos, which is a word for a lion's skin cloak." CreationDate="2022-07-11T16:01:11.040" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="16035" PostId="10457" Score="1" Text="@Walter Actually, that means &quot;lion's.&quot; What passage are you looking at?" CreationDate="2022-07-11T16:48:15.303" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16036" PostId="10457" Score="0" Text="https://lsj.gr/wiki/χλαίνωμα, https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dde%2Frma Hom. Il. 10.23" CreationDate="2022-07-12T02:15:02.097" UserId="6739" />
  <row Id="16037" PostId="10457" Score="1" Text="Ah, yes, it's chlainōma leōntos. The χλαίνωμα is abbreviated. Do note that APl is a late collection of poems; I can check later, but I don't believe it's used in the Classical period." CreationDate="2022-07-12T02:40:17.837" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16039" PostId="10458" Score="1" Text="It is NOT just IndoEuropean, I seen it closely related to more general great deluge myths" CreationDate="2022-07-17T20:46:03.380" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16040" PostId="10458" Score="0" Text="From what I could find I thought it must be global, but I know it best from those myth-cycles - the Irish Book Of Invasions, the Olympians and Titans, Marduk and Tiamat and so on, seemingly right across Eurasia." CreationDate="2022-07-18T10:14:44.323" UserId="9379" />
  <row Id="16046" PostId="10458" Score="1" Text="Yes, and you already said it. &quot;Divine succession.&quot;" CreationDate="2022-07-24T21:30:51.017" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16041" PostId="10459" Score="2" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2022-07-19T06:37:01.320" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16044" PostId="10459" Score="0" Text="Hi and welcome to Mythology and Folklore! While interesting, I cannot deduce a clear answer on why the lady of the lake would be related to the Telekhines." CreationDate="2022-07-22T18:42:53.863" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="16047" PostId="10460" Score="0" Text="If the right answer is &quot;no&quot; then that's what I need! This is a very interesting answer." CreationDate="2022-07-25T11:46:14.577" UserId="9379" />
  <row Id="16048" PostId="10463" Score="0" Text="I like what you say about the Faustian pact. I hadn't thought of that. And the Robert Johnson precedent is worth noting. Thank you. I'm not sure it quite gets to what I'm looking for though. A bargain with the Devil on its own doesn't necessarily entail the idea that there is any good involved. I'll look into your ideas more, though, and see if maybe it's there after all." CreationDate="2022-07-26T15:06:27.693" UserId="9399" />
  <row Id="16049" PostId="10463" Score="0" Text="As for the hunt being cursed as a Christian influence, you could be right, though I thought I recalled a pagan/pre-Christian wild hunt variant in which a king and his riders are cursed to ride forever after centuries pass while they attend a magical dwarf's wedding. It could be that this was also a Christianized variant without me noticing, though." CreationDate="2022-07-26T15:08:46.197" UserId="9399" />
  <row Id="16254" PostId="10463" Score="1" Text="I think I found another layer of the Headless Horseman/Ghost Rider connection. The Headless Horseman in German legends was originally a harmful revenant, later the restless soul of a sinner who was meant to be a warning for others not to do the same mistakes in life as him. Here he overlaps with the figure of the Feuermann (Fireman) or Flammenmann (Flame Man, Flaming Man), a more obscure variety of a damned soul who is engulfed in the flames of purgatory, walking the earth, hoping for redemption." CreationDate="2023-01-19T17:40:28.680" UserId="9404" />
  <row Id="16257" PostId="10463" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the follow-up. Is that pervasive enough in German legends that I would easily find it if I simply look for &quot;German headless horseman&quot; or something similar, or should I look for a particular legend?" CreationDate="2023-01-20T22:22:57.457" UserId="9399" />
  <row Id="16051" PostId="10464" Score="1" Text="Can you explain why that link doesn't answer your question, and what more you're looking for that the linked question doesn't answer?" CreationDate="2022-07-30T22:55:42.677" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16052" PostId="10464" Score="0" Text="Hello and thank you for your comment. What I want to KNOW instead of assuming, is if any bad traits for human beings were in the jar. Like jealousy, greed, malice etc etc. And if so, what is the source that can support it? Was jealousy and greed human traits before the jar opened of were those traits included along with all the other bad things?" CreationDate="2022-07-31T22:52:33.070" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="16053" PostId="10464" Score="0" Text="For instance, in Hesiod's Theogony 100&#xA;ἄλλα δὲ μυρία λυγρὰ κατ᾽ ἀνθρώπους ἀλάληται·&#xA;I am asking what were those &quot;λυγρά&quot; things. It might refer to the following ones or describe human traits that cause misfortune and negative outcomes. I try to explain" CreationDate="2022-07-31T23:11:26.683" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="16055" PostId="10464" Score="1" Text="I'll have to do some digging, as it's very difficult to prove a negative. Sadly, most of my books are packed away, but I can probably find the relevant information." CreationDate="2022-08-01T19:14:09.630" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16056" PostId="10464" Score="0" Text="In case you find something, please wait until I add bounty to reward your effort. I really appreciate your time and interest on that topic." CreationDate="2022-08-01T19:57:10.030" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="16057" PostId="10464" Score="1" Text="No need! This area is my true passion, so I'll get to it soon." CreationDate="2022-08-01T20:08:36.077" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16058" PostId="10464" Score="0" Text="It seems we share that passion, I don't have any BSc on such studies, my studies have nothing to do with it, but I do my own research and I am really in love with ancient Greek mythology. What I need is a source before Greek-Roman era, that would suggest what I seek or prove a negative. Even if the answer you will come up is that it is unclear, I will be delighted. I just want to know for sure what we can tell about the jar. People helping me on the community must and shall be rewarded accordingly. I need a second opinion on this topic and if you bring it to me you must be rewarded." CreationDate="2022-08-01T20:16:46.777" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="16059" PostId="10464" Score="0" Text="Conisder it a reward for your passion." CreationDate="2022-08-01T20:17:01.373" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="16065" PostId="10464" Score="0" Text="If you're still unsatisfied with the answer, I can do more probing or expand on anything that's unclear." CreationDate="2022-08-08T22:21:46.193" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16066" PostId="10464" Score="0" Text="Thank you. I wanted a second researcher's thought on that, whatever the answer was it would satisfy my, your sources were from the era I asked and it seems it is indeed a good answer. I can not thank you enough for your feedback." CreationDate="2022-08-08T23:31:46.437" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="16068" PostId="10464" Score="0" Text="I will leave comments on the answer to discuss it further and enhance the answer." CreationDate="2022-08-08T23:40:52.793" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="16054" PostId="10465" Score="0" Text="Great answer, I'll accept this! Thanks for posting it. (Seems like I must have missed that in my copy of the _The Tain_, or maybe it doesn't show up there?) Actually the linked quote describing travel &quot;without ships or barks, in clouds of fog [over the air, by their might of druidry]&quot; matches my hazy recollection pretty closely." CreationDate="2022-08-01T15:03:29.940" UserId="7100" />
  <row Id="16060" PostId="10469" Score="0" Text="What question do you have that you haven't already answered for yourself here? It seems the book you cite answers your title well enough, no?" CreationDate="2022-08-04T03:40:47.750" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16061" PostId="10469" Score="0" Text="[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambion) suggests &quot;cambion&quot; was used as a word for changelings at least as early as the 13th century. These changelings were seen as sons of incubi demons, so that connection is still there (but no mention the mother is a succubus)." CreationDate="2022-08-04T06:21:52.060" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="16062" PostId="10469" Score="0" Text="@towr Were these offspring demons or hybrids since there was no mention of a female demon? The 2 sources I quoted have mentioned born from 2 demons so I'm confused" CreationDate="2022-08-05T04:38:00.793" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16063" PostId="10469" Score="0" Text="I'm not sure. I haven't looked at the cited source (and I can't read Latin anyway). The section on human-demon hybrids on the wikipedia page says that the hybrid meaning emerged in the late 19th century, though. So that would suggest that before that they were considered pure demons." CreationDate="2022-08-05T05:29:47.640" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="16080" PostId="10469" Score="0" Text="This reminds me of this question https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/10317/can-an-incubus-and-succubus-reproduce-with-each-other" CreationDate="2022-08-15T16:19:05.390" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16064" PostId="10471" Score="1" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2022-08-05T15:31:56.250" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16067" PostId="10476" Score="0" Text="Yes, giving Pandora deceitful nature, lying and other personality features, makes sure that not all negative traits were in the pithos. Proabably but there is a problem. Pandora was created by gods and humankind was created by Promytheas, so they are different entities. It is really complicated because it can be considered a philosophical question.&#xA;So I wonder if we can tell with confidence that bad traits as traits, came out of the pithos and spread to the humankind." CreationDate="2022-08-08T23:40:10.403" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="16069" PostId="10477" Score="0" Text="Thanks for this answer. And that is exactly why I am asking for sources from that specific  era. Ancient Greece, before Roman Empire. There is a problem with what every god had put into the box. Jupiter putting arrogance? Ok. Juno putting jealousy? Yes! Both make sense. Pluto puts fear accepted, Neptune putting pride, is accepted but vanity can be included into the pride so maybe both belong to Venus? But Venus should add Lust. Whatever. What I believe is totally wrong here, is Minerva and anger. But Minerva is not a Greek godess, its Roman. ΑΘΗΝΑ would never have anything to do with anger." CreationDate="2022-08-08T23:58:56.563" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="16070" PostId="10477" Score="0" Text="It needs a lot of research to understand exactly what an ancient god or goddess is all about. ΑΘΗΝΑ was really misunderstood as an entity by Romans, and that is completely natural to happen. So sources of that era have many differences from the original Greek gods. In any case, thanks for bringing up that information on  Andrew Olimpi." CreationDate="2022-08-09T00:02:42.933" UserId="5806" />
  <row Id="16303" PostId="10478" Score="0" Text="More details are needed. What are some elements that you are pretty sure about? Are you sure there is a ring? Are you sure it is Irish or could also be from somewhere in Great Britain?" CreationDate="2023-02-24T23:21:40.517" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16304" PostId="10478" Score="0" Text="@Mauricio It is absolutely from Irish history. The ring is an essential part of the story because the mother gives to the infant who later becomes an important king and the ring proves who his sire/lineage is." CreationDate="2023-02-25T02:58:46.397" UserId="3208" />
  <row Id="16305" PostId="10478" Score="2" Text="Sounds like a mix between Uther Pendragon, Gráinne and Diarmuid, and Sigfried. In what format did you read it? A book? Oral tradition? Video?" CreationDate="2023-02-25T10:59:24.337" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16072" PostId="10480" Score="0" Text="I believe that Autolycus is not Hermes' son in the *Odyssey* (Pherecydes seems to be the source of that invention), though he did favor him. But where does Hermes show especial favor to Odysseus?" CreationDate="2022-08-10T13:01:06.073" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16073" PostId="10480" Score="0" Text="In _Odyssey_ 10, Hermes shows up out of the blue, after Odysseus has landed on Aiaia Island, to give the wandering hero instructions about how to avoid getting turned into an animal by Circe &amp; also how to rescue those of his companions who have already suffered such an ignominy. Apollodorus, Athenaeus, Hyginus &amp; Ovid also make references to the encounter." CreationDate="2022-08-10T17:58:49.267" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="16074" PostId="10480" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra I'm not sure I'd call that special favor, and both Athena and Ino-Leukothea help Odysseus on his journey. Also by that point Aeolus has helped him, too. Given that Poseidon was in favor of the Greeks but turned against Odysseus, I don't we can say for sure the Greeks would have attributed this action to any family ties." CreationDate="2022-08-10T21:34:09.163" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16075" PostId="10480" Score="0" Text="I'd always been almost certain that the _Odyssey_ 10 preemptive rescue had something to do with Odysseus' descent from Hermes via Autolykos until you pointed out the absence of this genealogical connection in Homer. But ah, well, whatever the case, I'm guessing this must be what is being referring to by JavaJay - who I think has done well in parsing out a possible rationale for Hermes' motivations both on the Trojan battlefield &amp; in Odysseus' adventures." CreationDate="2022-08-11T03:07:15.283" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="16076" PostId="10480" Score="0" Text="Also, your mention of Athena makes me think, though, that whatever the (otherwise unmentioned?) reason for it, the Aiaia meeting must be a special favour on the part of Hermes. Athena definitely goes out of her way to be Odysseus' patron in the _Odyssey_ , &amp; apparently other divinities (viz. Leukothea, Aiolos &amp; Hermes) like him enough to lend him their helping hand as well." CreationDate="2022-08-11T03:10:00.573" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="16077" PostId="10480" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra We should take this to chat to discuss it further, if you'd like, but a quick note: [Romero Recio](https://dialnet.unirioja.es/servlet/tesis?codigo=162356) and a few other scholars have advanced some interesting ideas along this line: essentially, because Poseidon was a god that hindered sailors, Greeks would pray to other sea divinities to help them on their journey. Ino, Aiolos (the wind god), Aphrodite, and Dionysus were all gods the Greeks actively prayed to in order that they may be safe. I mention it a little in my [earlier post](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/10453/398)" CreationDate="2022-08-11T04:10:03.170" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16078" PostId="10480" Score="0" Text="@Adinkra Btw, to ping me, type @ cmw (but no space). Otherwise I don't see when you have replied!" CreationDate="2022-08-11T04:11:07.143" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16088" PostId="10486" Score="0" Text="See also the [Wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-three_gods) on it." CreationDate="2022-08-26T03:45:49.777" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16092" PostId="10486" Score="0" Text="@Orionixe why are you interested in counting the number of deities in each religion?" CreationDate="2022-08-30T08:14:21.730" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16127" PostId="10486" Score="0" Text="@Mauricio well this is the site to ask these kinds of questions is it not? lol" CreationDate="2022-09-19T07:53:10.553" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16090" PostId="10487" Score="0" Text="So 33 could be how many gods that are worshiped and not how many Hindu gods there are?" CreationDate="2022-08-26T22:18:29.353" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16091" PostId="10491" Score="1" Text="Stone slabs don't count as folklore.  Some historians claim that some Pictish folklore was adopted by the Celts, but I've not seen convincing arguments." CreationDate="2022-08-29T16:27:57.657" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16097" PostId="10495" Score="3" Text="This uses too much modern scientific understanding that I doubt Ancient Sumerians would have believe such a story. Got any source?" CreationDate="2022-09-02T13:56:32.400" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16112" PostId="10495" Score="0" Text="If this is the case I would love to see some references to the Tablets and sources" CreationDate="2022-09-07T17:34:31.063" UserId="5726" />
  <row Id="16150" PostId="10500" Score="0" Text="Dionysus does have some military characteristics. I discuss this at length in my dissertation with respect to the *Bacchae*, but see also Schiesaro's 2020 chapter &quot;Alius furor.&quot; (That said, I agree that his martial characteristics do not factor in here, and have little to do with fortresses at any rate.)" CreationDate="2022-10-12T16:56:34.590" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16104" PostId="10503" Score="1" Text="I do not remember ever seeing Aegeus and Eumolpus being referred as titans. Also the site seems like blog." CreationDate="2022-09-05T14:36:54.553" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16105" PostId="10503" Score="0" Text="Also Naxos is associated to Crete, is where Theseus left Ariadne not related to Aegeus as far as I know." CreationDate="2022-09-05T14:40:33.820" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16107" PostId="10503" Score="0" Text="Thanks, yes I know, as I said I haven't found anything that supports it, and I've repeatedly tried to contact the site... however most of the other information on the site is pretty good and this myth seems very spacific, sad no citation. ... just wondered if I'd missed something.  Thanks again." CreationDate="2022-09-05T17:33:29.823" UserId="9556" />
  <row Id="16108" PostId="10503" Score="0" Text="Yeah, I know, I can't spell specific !" CreationDate="2022-09-05T18:09:00.937" UserId="9556" />
  <row Id="16114" PostId="10504" Score="0" Text="Maybe a stretch, as both share the same adjective, but Asha could be related to [Vasishtha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasishtha)." CreationDate="2022-09-07T18:13:12.110" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16115" PostId="10504" Score="1" Text="Do you have any citations for their similarity? I'm a bit out of the loop, but when looking into Zoroastrianism years ago I believe I remember that they were born from the same cultural milieu, but they were in fact very different and developed in radically different ways. As such, we shouldn't always expect parallels." CreationDate="2022-09-07T21:58:33.197" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16126" PostId="10512" Score="0" Text="Just pointing out that the [jackalope](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackalope) has two horns." CreationDate="2022-09-17T22:37:02.200" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="16492" PostId="10512" Score="0" Text="Probably just &quot;ٱلْمِعْرَاج&quot; pronounced in Persian." CreationDate="2023-09-21T18:59:58.987" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16497" PostId="10512" Score="0" Text="If so, how does the pronunciation differ? Would it affect the Latin transcription?" CreationDate="2023-09-26T05:39:42.497" UserId="9346" />
  <row Id="16131" PostId="10514" Score="2" Text="&quot;Tales frequently are inconsistent.&quot; This bears repeating---in general, not just on our site, where it seems to answer a decent number of questions!" CreationDate="2022-09-22T23:33:07.683" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16135" PostId="10514" Score="0" Text="@Mary so the belief that angels cannot reproduce is a more modern tradition?" CreationDate="2022-09-27T02:08:48.187" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16136" PostId="10514" Score="0" Text="No telling.  There's a lot of inconsistency in the same time period." CreationDate="2022-09-27T04:04:31.387" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="16151" PostId="10526" Score="0" Text="I think you have a good idea here. I agree that the conventional association of Zeus with this &quot;god of fortresses&quot; is problematic." CreationDate="2022-10-12T16:58:17.553" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16148" PostId="10529" Score="0" Text="While this is true, a better answer would explain what the symbolism *is*." CreationDate="2022-10-10T07:49:50.600" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16182" PostId="10530" Score="0" Text="This story is usually known as 牛郎和织女 ([The Cowherd and the Weaver Girl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cowherd_and_the_Weaver_Girl)). I found this article on Zhihu (in Chinese) that talks about the origin of this story: https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/60114707" CreationDate="2022-11-08T01:50:03.470" UserId="9108" />
  <row Id="16185" PostId="10530" Score="0" Text="@alephalpha - Well, the English Wikipedia info about that story only mentions 7 daughters in regards to Manohara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manohara), which is not Chinese? And that Chinese article you linked has a lot of details that don't seem to match up with the English Wikipedia, such as &quot;七个仙女&quot; (Seven Fairies)" CreationDate="2022-11-08T03:41:07.137" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="16186" PostId="10530" Score="0" Text="I found another answer on Zhihu with more details: https://www.zhihu.com/question/23939049/answer/35474474 According to that answer, the first version of this story that had &quot;Seven Fairies&quot; came from the story collection [清平山堂话本](https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B8%85%E5%B9%B3%E5%B1%B1%E5%A0%82%E8%A9%B1%E6%9C%AC). 清平山堂话本 was compiled in Ming dynasty, but the stories in it might be from Song and Yuan dynasties. You can read that story on [WikiSource](https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/%E6%B8%85%E5%B9%B3%E5%B1%B1%E5%A0%82%E8%A9%B1%E6%9C%AC/19)." CreationDate="2022-11-08T04:42:19.100" UserId="9108" />
  <row Id="16187" PostId="10530" Score="1" Text="@alephalpha - That sounds like enough for an answer of &quot;Not a modern part of the tale, it's at least as old as the Ming Dynasty&quot;?" CreationDate="2022-11-08T19:33:01.483" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="16149" PostId="10532" Score="0" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2022-10-12T09:31:19.280" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16153" PostId="10535" Score="0" Text="Herodotus is well known for having associated Egyptian gods with Greek gods." CreationDate="2022-10-15T10:08:59.743" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16154" PostId="10535" Score="0" Text="Also welcome to mythology SE. Remember to ask a single question per post." CreationDate="2022-10-15T10:15:08.197" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16167" PostId="10535" Score="0" Text="Questions of the form &quot;Why isn't enough attention being paid to X&quot; are typically opinion-based." CreationDate="2022-10-23T17:18:11.653" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="16152" PostId="10536" Score="0" Text="You mean between the Olympians? Because there are some other deities that also did not change name like Prometheus or Charon." CreationDate="2022-10-15T10:03:10.603" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16155" PostId="10536" Score="0" Text="I guess I mean Olympians -- &quot;main&quot; gods." CreationDate="2022-10-15T10:44:44.540" UserId="8136" />
  <row Id="16156" PostId="10536" Score="0" Text="Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it's hard to tell exactly what you're asking." CreationDate="2022-10-15T18:07:09.397" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16160" PostId="10536" Score="0" Text="The Olympians are not the only &quot;main&quot; gods. They are just the &quot;chief&quot; ones, but there are other important gods, such as Pan and Hades, and even Dionysus isn't always considered an Olympian." CreationDate="2022-10-18T01:20:23.593" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16161" PostId="10536" Score="0" Text="@cmw: chief vs main, very subtle distinction." CreationDate="2022-10-18T01:21:27.373" UserId="8136" />
  <row Id="16162" PostId="10536" Score="0" Text="I agree it's subtle, and even then it is a bit of simplification, but essentially I don't want to sideline the other ones that were very important for Greek worship. Not asking you to change, just adding perspective." CreationDate="2022-10-18T03:30:27.980" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16166" PostId="10536" Score="0" Text="Herakles also didn't change his name too much, and he's definitely an Olympian god." CreationDate="2022-10-22T07:17:24.443" UserId="197" />
  <row Id="16159" PostId="10539" Score="0" Text="Relatively late.  Isis was adopted later, late enough that despite great popularity she never shook off being an Egyptian deity." CreationDate="2022-10-18T00:12:46.927" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="16566" PostId="10540" Score="1" Text="This answer contains several quite serious inaccuracies. First of all, the sentence &quot;basically every written evidence of Odin or any other Old Norse god was written by a Christian monk&quot; is plain false. Snorri Sturluson, the author of the Prose Edda, was not a monk. The identity of whoever collected the poems that make up the Poetic Edda is not known. Even removing the word &quot;monk&quot; from the sentence, it's still false, considering there's a whole corpus of pre-Christian skaldic poetry, and that many poems in the Poetic Edda have been dated before the 11th century." CreationDate="2023-12-20T01:42:56.177" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="16165" PostId="10541" Score="0" Text="Are you sure there are actually allusions being made there? The link between Shadow and 9 seems rather indirect, and it would work just as well for 1, 2 or 8 (Odin had one eye, two ravens, and an eight-legged horse). But, if such indirect connections are allowed, someone can probably find a way to link Czernobog to 7. Come to think of it, his name ends with the 7th letter of the alphabet." CreationDate="2022-10-20T15:03:11.887" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="16333" PostId="10541" Score="0" Text="Three and four make 7&#xA;Evil 3 and the physical world 4 make the illusion of seven. Do not be fooled by false gods(actors in the physical world making you worship them." CreationDate="2023-03-28T22:29:53.577" UserId="10136" />
  <row Id="16168" PostId="10545" Score="0" Text="Good point, I am less interested in the Norse part anyway. I was wondering if there were any attempts to synchretize Christianity and ancient Egyptian religion." CreationDate="2022-10-24T17:08:28.007" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16169" PostId="10545" Score="0" Text="So late sources are fine for you then?" CreationDate="2022-10-24T18:06:02.157" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16170" PostId="10545" Score="0" Text="Yes. Later sources would work. How late are we talking about?" CreationDate="2022-10-24T18:34:37.863" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16171" PostId="10545" Score="0" Text="Possibly 3rd century CE, but maybe later. I don't have immediate access to my library right now, as I'm on vacation, but I'll try to see what I can come up with online soon." CreationDate="2022-10-25T01:42:55.070" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16622" PostId="10545" Score="0" Text="somebody reminded me of this question. Do you have any sources still?" CreationDate="2024-03-03T19:15:03.290" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16625" PostId="10545" Score="1" Text="@MardukTrimegistus It'll take some time for me to read through it all and come up with a definitive picture, but two books by David Frankfurter cover Egyptian-Christian syncretism: [*Religion in Roman Egypt: Assimilation and Resistance* (1998)](https://books.google.com/books?id=s9LgDwAAQBAJ) and [*Christianizing Egypt: Syncretism and Local Worlds in Late Antiquity* (2017)](https://books.google.com/books?id=w5IMEAAAQBAJ)." CreationDate="2024-03-03T19:42:31.610" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16173" PostId="10552" Score="2" Text="Can you share the reference from where you found this and any other supplemental information you might have?" CreationDate="2022-11-04T16:43:26.053" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16176" PostId="10552" Score="0" Text="@cmw https://the-demonic-paradise.fandom.com/wiki/Eisheth_Zenunim under the Kabbalah sub-heading" CreationDate="2022-11-05T01:06:50.433" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16178" PostId="10553" Score="1" Text="This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient [reputation](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/whats-reputation) you will be able to [comment on any post](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/comment); instead, [provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker](https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/214173/why-do-i-need-50-reputation-to-comment-what-can-i-do-instead). - [From Review](/review/late-answers/8078)" CreationDate="2022-11-07T13:11:51.113" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16183" PostId="10555" Score="0" Text="Can you point to your source that talks about this?" CreationDate="2022-11-08T03:09:22.487" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16184" PostId="10555" Score="0" Text="@cmw Sure, but it's in Chinese - https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8128413015 , see the replies from #15 through #18." CreationDate="2022-11-08T03:33:57.143" UserId="9748" />
  <row Id="16189" PostId="10557" Score="0" Text="It appears Le Chasseur noir by Peirre Vidal-Naquet is one of their sources." CreationDate="2022-11-10T05:08:33.390" UserId="9748" />
  <row Id="16190" PostId="10557" Score="0" Text="I managed to find Vidal-Naquet's text in English. It says: { Eventually, the triumph of Zeus is projected onto the past, and his will is fulfilled even prior to his birth. [note: Line 465; P, Mazon was unwilling to excise the line, since the Theogony &quot;offers more than one example of this kind of contradiction&quot;] } The author is introducing a concept called divine time here (the chapter name being &quot;Divine Time and Human Time&quot;). I have no idea what he really meant." CreationDate="2022-11-10T07:14:23.190" UserId="9748" />
  <row Id="16191" PostId="10557" Score="0" Text="@Eugene Vidal-Naquet is sometimes, often even, off the mark. I haven't read that chapter before, but I still disagree with that assessment. It just doesn't hold up with the rest of Hesiod or even the rest of epic poetry. It's a development some Greeks made, but by no means all. I think these commentators are reading their own Christianity into the Greek text, something that Vidal-Naquet of all people ought not to be doing." CreationDate="2022-11-10T14:31:50.150" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16462" PostId="10557" Score="0" Text="@KazamaAiko: Please post your own post if you want to suggest something substantially different from what's written here. I saved your post, though, if you didn't and wanted to use it still, since you wrote quite a lot. Let me know what's the best way to get it to you." CreationDate="2023-09-05T21:19:18.587" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16193" PostId="10560" Score="1" Text="Hi Sunny, do you think you can expand on this? Can you add references or otherwise elaborate on your answer? Thanks!" CreationDate="2022-11-11T14:23:08.670" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16194" PostId="10560" Score="0" Text="Hello ! Of course, I’m glad to help. That theory is based first of all on Sigyn’s name. As you know, names in Norse mythology have meanings and are important. &#xA;'Glut' means &quot;glow&quot; as she's a FIRE giantess. 'Angrboda' means &quot;Bringer of grief&quot;, as she gives birth to the &quot;monsters&quot; that will bring Ragnarok and kill the gods. And 'Sigyn' means 'Friend of Victory'...&#xA;I read someone thought it was meant in an &quot;ironical&quot; way... but why would it be “ironical” for her, and not for the others?" CreationDate="2022-11-13T22:11:34.470" UserId="9758" />
  <row Id="16195" PostId="10560" Score="0" Text="Then, there is this one archeological remain we’ve got, that shows her and Loki, in their usual scene (Loki’s punishment). At the bottom (west side) of the Gosforth Cross (mid-11th century), located in Cumbria, England, you can see a representation of Sigyn, holding the bowl to protect Loki. If you look at her hair cut, it's typical of the Viking warriors when they went to battle... So yeah. Warrior!Sigyn for the win ^^'&#xA;In the links, you will find three articles I’ve found for you." CreationDate="2022-11-13T22:12:08.253" UserId="9758" />
  <row Id="16196" PostId="10560" Score="0" Text="https://blog.vkngjewelry.com/en/sigyn/&#xA;                                                                           &#xA;https://www.altargods.com/post/sigyn-the-goddess-who-grants-victory                                                                      &#xA;                                                                 &#xA;https://www.vikingceltic.fr/blogs/news/sigyn-deesse-nordique-de-la-victoire" CreationDate="2022-11-13T22:12:25.927" UserId="9758" />
  <row Id="16197" PostId="10560" Score="0" Text="The article in French is really interesting, and talks about the Gosforth Cross. They also have this theory about the  “little friend” part of her name meaning she accompanied the warriors to war… as part of her duties as Goddess of Victory.&#xA;Nowadays, the theory that Sigyn is/was Goddess of Victory for the Norse mythology is so popular that if your just google “Norse goddess of Victory”, her name will come up first :p Just try!" CreationDate="2022-11-13T22:13:43.990" UserId="9758" />
  <row Id="16201" PostId="10560" Score="0" Text="Hi Sunny, can you edit all that (well, except perhaps the Marvel and modern stuff) in to the answer? I think it would make it a very solid answer, but StackExchange likes all the relevant information to be in the body of the answer, not the comments. I'm no expert on Norse myths, though I do know a bit of Old Icelandic." CreationDate="2022-11-13T22:20:31.167" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16202" PostId="10560" Score="0" Text="I know, I tried to put everything in one post, but the website would not let me XD" CreationDate="2022-11-13T22:28:30.217" UserId="9758" />
  <row Id="16203" PostId="10560" Score="0" Text="Is it ok now? :) If you want my complete answer, I've posted it on tumblr :) Sorry for being so talkative! XD https://at.tumblr.com/jonquilclegane/sigyn-norse-goddess-of-victory/oetk68f8w8i3" CreationDate="2022-11-13T22:34:18.427" UserId="9758" />
  <row Id="16204" PostId="10560" Score="0" Text="I had no idea that Tumblr was thriving. I'll edit it later for you. Thanks for the info." CreationDate="2022-11-13T22:48:13.677" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16205" PostId="10563" Score="0" Text="was it said that Artemis pulled Apollo out? (Rather than just assisting in the delivery, feet first if I remember)" CreationDate="2022-11-14T15:15:29.043" UserId="9761" />
  <row Id="16206" PostId="10563" Score="0" Text="@BillyNair I do not remember that specific detail, maybe it depends on how the source was telling the story?" CreationDate="2022-11-14T15:22:33.293" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16207" PostId="10565" Score="0" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2022-11-21T22:48:53.157" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16208" PostId="10565" Score="0" Text="This does not really answer the question. If you have a different question, you can ask it by clicking [Ask Question](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/ask). To get notified when this question gets new answers, you can [follow this question](https://meta.stackexchange.com/q/345661). Once you have enough [reputation](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/whats-reputation), you can also [add a bounty](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/set-bounties) to draw more attention to this question. - [From Review](/review/late-answers/8091)" CreationDate="2022-11-28T07:01:42.150" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="16213" PostId="10569" Score="2" Text="Is it anywhere defined?" CreationDate="2022-11-30T03:00:00.427" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="16214" PostId="10570" Score="1" Text="What happens to the god whose position is taken by someone else? (i.e. Where do previous Indras go?)" CreationDate="2022-12-04T18:16:32.637" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="16217" PostId="10579" Score="0" Text="Thanks for this perspective. Do you have any sources for these? Thanks!" CreationDate="2022-12-20T19:08:03.427" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16219" PostId="10580" Score="0" Text="I briefly considered bringing in Chinese cannibalism into my doctoral work, but left it out due to scope. I would however love some sources for these, primary or secondary, or anything, really." CreationDate="2022-12-20T19:11:03.353" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16216" PostId="10582" Score="4" Text="This is interesting. Do you happen to have the sources that led you to this conclusion?" CreationDate="2022-12-20T19:07:07.607" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16247" PostId="10582" Score="0" Text="I found a giant named Mokkurkalfi, he was a giant made out of clay and stone and was supposed to be an esquire of sorts to Hrungnir. &#xA;&#xA;https://www.godchecker.com/norse-mythology/MOKKURKALFI/" CreationDate="2023-01-09T03:41:54.383" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16225" PostId="10583" Score="1" Text="Do [automatic temple doors](https://medium.com/@snehal_45125/ancient-greek-automatic-doors-3db5ec823840) count?" CreationDate="2022-12-28T14:57:52.360" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="16227" PostId="10583" Score="0" Text="@towr yeS! exactly" CreationDate="2022-12-29T12:50:26.077" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="16232" PostId="10584" Score="1" Text="&quot;Granting courage to warriors or frightening enemies&quot; is the function of any war-god(dess). You might as well as if there is a connection to [Huitzilopoctli](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu%C4%ABtzil%C5%8Dp%C5%8Dchtli)." CreationDate="2023-01-02T18:08:27.597" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="16233" PostId="10584" Score="0" Text="A number of women was brought to Iceland from Ireland as slaves and contributed to the gene pool and likely to the folklore. After Christian lore, Celtic is actually probably the first place one should look for similarities in (which is not to say that any similarities are necessary the result of direct influence)." CreationDate="2023-01-04T11:04:00.263" UserId="666" />
  <row Id="16226" PostId="10587" Score="0" Text="It might depends on who is doing the considering. But now that you mention it, they do seem quite dragon-like to me." CreationDate="2022-12-28T15:15:39.203" UserId="9049" />
  <row Id="16228" PostId="10587" Score="1" Text="The people that claim that &quot;there are dragons in every ancient mythology&quot; often consider any large flying serpent a dragon, most of the time including Quetzacoatl and Kukulkan. Modern dragon as we know them in contemporary fiction do not start to appear until  medieval times, see Saint George and the Dragon." CreationDate="2022-12-30T13:16:46.740" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16229" PostId="10587" Score="0" Text="@Mauricio hits the mark.  The term is used very loosely" CreationDate="2022-12-31T17:58:43.793" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="16236" PostId="10594" Score="1" Text="One notes that many ancient Greeks claimed to have a divine ancestor." CreationDate="2023-01-06T00:56:38.500" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="16621" PostId="10594" Score="0" Text="Well if your whole mythology is based on everything coming from chaos, then at some point in their lineage there will be a god, a titan or an early deity like Gaia or Uranus" CreationDate="2024-03-03T19:11:43.300" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16244" PostId="10597" Score="0" Text="It's an interesting allegory for nature...if the Bible were written further north. But it makes no sense when looked at in its context. Also, mourning doves, that fly south for the winter, are from North America. This sort of mythological &quot;explanation&quot; is just crackpot hypothesizing." CreationDate="2023-01-08T21:15:34.100" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16245" PostId="10597" Score="0" Text="@cmw It was very popular in the 19th century to treat any story at all as a solar myth.  Infamously, a writer was able to prove, by the standards of evidence that they used, that Napoleon Bonaparte was a solar myth." CreationDate="2023-01-09T01:42:01.507" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="16246" PostId="10597" Score="0" Text="@Mary Oh, yes, I'm very familiar with the trend. It was shortly replaced by the &quot;dying and rising gods&quot; super-lens. I thought we had all moved past that in the last...hundred something years!" CreationDate="2023-01-09T02:48:14.857" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16482" PostId="10598" Score="0" Text="Which game? You should add all the relevant information." CreationDate="2023-09-15T13:18:18.770" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16483" PostId="10598" Score="0" Text="Have you checked *[La grande encyclopédie des fées](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Grande_Encyclop%C3%A9die_des_f%C3%A9es)*? They appear there..." CreationDate="2023-09-15T13:28:21.247" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16484" PostId="10598" Score="0" Text="@MardukTrimegistus - Do I... Have to buy that? ... And how is the game important? Not that I can remember which game it is... It's just how I found out the idea exists. It's not like it's the source." CreationDate="2023-09-15T17:13:11.617" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="16489" PostId="10598" Score="0" Text="by indicating the game we may confirm how notable the subject is. The game itself could also be a lead to another source, as sometimes developers disclose the myths that inspired the game. History without sources is pointless." CreationDate="2023-09-18T15:15:33.377" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16249" PostId="10600" Score="1" Text="That these statues are Castor and Pollux is just a guess. There's nothing positively affirming their identity." CreationDate="2023-01-12T00:57:41.680" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16258" PostId="10600" Score="1" Text="@cmw Yes -- there are a lot of claims this same statue is of Orestes and Pylades." CreationDate="2023-01-20T23:12:50.530" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="16260" PostId="10600" Score="0" Text="@Spencer thanks!" CreationDate="2023-01-21T15:45:26.810" UserId="8780" />
  <row Id="16250" PostId="10601" Score="0" Text="Probably they were just using numbers that had a lot of divisors. For example, 60 can be divided by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30 making it very practical (that's why we still keep it for time and geometry). Same with 12 at a smaller scale (divisors 2, 3,4 and 6)." CreationDate="2023-01-14T13:54:48.453" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16259" PostId="10605" Score="0" Text="I don't have a more knowledgeable answer for this yet, but I think [just those two](https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-different-types-of-Jotun-in-Norse-mythology), if these Quora answers are to be believed." CreationDate="2023-01-21T04:36:27.620" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16288" PostId="10605" Score="0" Text="@cmw what does he mean when he said &quot;Jotnar could be roughly divided into earthly elements like storm Jotnar, earth Jotnar, mountain Jotnar etc.,&quot;?" CreationDate="2023-02-11T07:27:34.650" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16289" PostId="10605" Score="0" Text="His comparison to pantheons leads me to conclude that he's referring to domains that the jötnar are associated with, similar to how Zeus is associated with storms, Poseidon with the sea, etc. I'm not sure that's accurate, but I don't know yet." CreationDate="2023-02-11T07:32:26.437" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16292" PostId="10605" Score="0" Text="Wouldnt that make storm/sea giants a classification since Frost Giants are associated with ice and Fire Giants associated with fire?" CreationDate="2023-02-16T04:36:47.603" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16293" PostId="10605" Score="0" Text="I guess the idea is could frost giants also be associated with the sea or fire giants also with storms? As I said, this isn't my area of expertise, but I have a few books I'm looking at that may provide an answer. Also, keep in mind that mythologies are never perfectly logical, so expecting some sort of logical, coherent principle that always works is wrongheaded." CreationDate="2023-02-16T05:14:35.907" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16299" PostId="10605" Score="0" Text="If a fire giant was associated with storms then I don't think that would make them a fire giant anymore?" CreationDate="2023-02-20T10:59:40.783" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16255" PostId="10607" Score="0" Text="As it’s currently written, your answer is unclear. Please [edit] to add additional details that will help others understand how this addresses the question asked. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2023-01-20T18:41:15.200" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16262" PostId="10610" Score="1" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2023-01-21T21:57:32.863" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16263" PostId="10612" Score="0" Text="One of the problems with the original question is that it flattens out a thousand years of literature. In Old English, *blac* and *blæc* could be seen as opposites, while their modern counterparts, *bleak* and *black*, couldn't." CreationDate="2023-01-23T01:49:17.367" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16264" PostId="10613" Score="3" Text="In which movie?  They appear in at least a dozen.  Also, why do you think any movie is likely to be a definitve source for the myths?" CreationDate="2023-01-23T08:53:22.190" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16321" PostId="10614" Score="1" Text="In _Gylfagynning_, Odin has two brothers, [Vili and Vé](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vili_and_V%C3%A9), who participated with Odin in the slaying of the giant Ymir." CreationDate="2023-03-11T22:25:40.943" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="16265" PostId="10615" Score="5" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2023-01-24T22:09:35.243" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16267" PostId="10616" Score="0" Text="There is so much wrong with this. Can you cut out the irrelevant proselytizing and add in citations to all your claims? That would help with others being able to evaluate it for themselves." CreationDate="2023-01-25T18:01:39.537" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16269" PostId="10616" Score="3" Text="You have made a lot of unsubstantiated claims here.  Comparing greek religion with christianity is not relevant to the question.  Could you edit this down a little." CreationDate="2023-01-25T22:39:32.363" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16271" PostId="10616" Score="0" Text="@cmw What is so wrong? Tell me" CreationDate="2023-01-26T21:37:53.313" UserId="9939" />
  <row Id="16272" PostId="10616" Score="1" Text="@AlexIglesias Well, for starters, the idea of guilt-debt did not exist in Graeco-Roman culture. You really need to read the myth of Pandora itself. It's clear you know about it, but never read it." CreationDate="2023-01-26T22:24:12.820" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16273" PostId="10619" Score="2" Text="I do not find this persuasive evidence. Rumplestiltskin is not a &quot;rich man&quot;, but rather an entity that can transmute substances into gold; he does not have a bunch of coins lying around somewhere. Unlike, say, a leprechaun, or Norse dwarves, which I don't think many people consider Jewish caricatures. He is not &quot;money-grubbing&quot;: in the first two deals, he gives highly valuable gold in exchange for much less valuable items. Rather, in trying to get someone to be tempted into giving up something more valuable than money, he seems to be offering something more like a &quot;deal with the Devil.&quot;" CreationDate="2023-01-27T22:01:19.340" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="16274" PostId="10619" Score="2" Text="As reinforced when he claims that a living being is more valuable than all the wealth in the realm, and refuses the latter offer. Finally, fairy tales hardly hesitated to simply explicitly make their villains Jews when the need arose, like &quot;The Jew in the Thorns.&quot; They didn't see any need for subtle anti-Semitism that needed to excuse and justify itself and was susceptible to nice interpretations: that came later, when anti-Semitism had already fallen in some disrepute." CreationDate="2023-01-27T22:04:15.263" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="16275" PostId="10619" Score="1" Text="There is also [some research](https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.150645) suggesting that &quot;Rumplestiltskin&quot; is older than the widespread presence of Jews in Europe, so if there are anti-Semitic elements, they would probably have been added later. That raises the standard of evidence considerably, if the basic ideas were already there well in the past." CreationDate="2023-01-27T22:17:13.203" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="16276" PostId="10619" Score="0" Text="Yeah, this reading is extremely anachronistic. I agree, Obie, there's no merit to these assumptions (at least not as they are presented here)." CreationDate="2023-01-28T02:51:37.440" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16277" PostId="10619" Score="0" Text="Please link your answer to the tale, with evidence if possible, if not this answer is nonsense." CreationDate="2023-01-31T14:00:41.440" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16283" PostId="10625" Score="1" Text="If you register your account, you'll be able to merge your two accounts together. That can be helpful to keep track of questions, answers, &quot;reputation&quot;, etc." CreationDate="2023-02-05T16:12:10.973" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16282" PostId="10627" Score="0" Text="I welcome correction of my translation of the Latin" CreationDate="2023-02-05T06:49:27.783" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="16295" PostId="10627" Score="0" Text="Thank you so much for your well thought out answer with sources, translations and images to boot (heh). You have answered this obscure question as well as anyone ever could." CreationDate="2023-02-17T06:24:31.223" UserId="8708" />
  <row Id="16297" PostId="10627" Score="0" Text="LOL! Took me a moment to catch the footwear pun. You're most welcome." CreationDate="2023-02-18T00:23:55.407" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="16285" PostId="10630" Score="0" Text="You're right, but while not necessarily a queen per se, she is considered more powerful than all the gods save Zeus, so it's not quite a leap into regal territory." CreationDate="2023-02-07T19:36:27.607" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16311" PostId="10636" Score="0" Text="There was a fascinating article, which I need to find again, analyzing the astronomy of the Odyssey and what it could tell us about the chronology. There are a couple mentions of season but this article put together a surprisingly thorough timeline based on the mentions of stars and planets (both literal and metaphorical—how much Homer meant the latter is a good question)." CreationDate="2023-03-03T03:30:31.617" UserId="4022" />
  <row Id="16296" PostId="10639" Score="1" Text="Asking what we think is a good way of getting your question closed as opinion -based." CreationDate="2023-02-17T21:57:22.420" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16298" PostId="10639" Score="1" Text="@Chenmunka I think the question could use a little clarity, but my takeaway from the last line was more along the lines of what do scholars think, rather than what's our own opinion." CreationDate="2023-02-19T02:13:18.560" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16315" PostId="10639" Score="0" Text="So, you're talking about the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_dragon, I think. Perhaps mention that article somewhere in your question?" CreationDate="2023-03-07T15:18:29.687" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="16306" PostId="10645" Score="3" Text="_[Theogony](https://www.theoi.com/Text/HesiodTheogony.html)_ does not say that Chaos was &quot;primordial, undifferentiated substance&quot; -- it is just as valid to interpret it as an endless void." CreationDate="2023-03-01T22:28:56.390" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="16307" PostId="10645" Score="1" Text="@Spancer And quite literally a &quot;gap.&quot; I'm sympathetic to the interpretation that Chaos originally represented the gap created when Cronus separated Uranus from Ge, but that comes with its own problems as well (namely, how could Hesiod mix it up so much!)." CreationDate="2023-03-02T02:52:01.650" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16308" PostId="10645" Score="0" Text="@Spencer That's right, I've updated the question specifying it." CreationDate="2023-03-02T09:21:53.243" UserDisplayName="user10066" />
  <row Id="16310" PostId="10645" Score="0" Text="How is this not answered by any mythological origin of the world? There is always some gap, fluid, cosmic entity or deity in the void" CreationDate="2023-03-02T18:07:20.120" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16309" PostId="10648" Score="0" Text="Thank you for the answer. Are there any more theories you are aware of? Why do you consider this one the best?" CreationDate="2023-03-02T15:50:37.840" UserDisplayName="user10066" />
  <row Id="16313" PostId="10648" Score="1" Text="I'll have to get back to you on the different theories. There aren't many, though. I'll also sketch out some more details that Bonnet only mentions here, but I don't have access to her book anymore." CreationDate="2023-03-03T17:30:07.470" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16314" PostId="10648" Score="0" Text="You don't have to get through the trouble. I was just curious in case you knew." CreationDate="2023-03-03T18:14:40.513" UserDisplayName="user10066" />
  <row Id="16320" PostId="10652" Score="1" Text="Apart from the obvious answer that *all* gods ard evil because they promote hatred towards non-believers, this is a list question." CreationDate="2023-03-10T13:18:39.780" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16316" PostId="10653" Score="0" Text="I thought the daeva are a race of shadow demons in Zoroastrianism, not gods. I could be mistaken though" CreationDate="2023-03-10T05:37:13.683" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16317" PostId="10653" Score="1" Text="You'll have to define &quot;god&quot; and define what separates &quot;gods&quot; from &quot;demons&quot;. At some point you'll run up against arbitrary distinctions." CreationDate="2023-03-10T05:38:40.517" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16318" PostId="10653" Score="0" Text="I would define god as divine higher beings that have power over natural and human concepts. &#xA;&#xA;Demons (as not in the Abrahamic sense) I would define as evil spirits that are powerless compared to gods and often act as their servants/enforcers or spends time preying humans on earth" CreationDate="2023-03-10T05:45:21.443" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16319" PostId="10653" Score="1" Text="@Orionixe *Daevas* definitely fall into the former category. First, etymologically, the word comes from the PIE root that means &quot;god&quot;. Wikipedia notes that the Gathas literally calls them &quot;gods to be rejected.&quot; Zoroastrianism is often understood as a dualistic religion in which two equal sets of gods fight each other, although getting a proper chronology for this can be tricky." CreationDate="2023-03-10T06:11:37.887" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16322" PostId="10654" Score="0" Text="Where in Europe?  Eastern European dragons tend to be more human-like (such as human sized) than Western ones." CreationDate="2023-03-17T01:21:25.057" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="16323" PostId="10654" Score="0" Text="If you read the article the stories all take place in France (Aquitaine, Poitou, and Gascony." CreationDate="2023-03-19T16:45:01.183" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16334" PostId="10672" Score="0" Text="Citations are needed." CreationDate="2023-04-03T00:32:54.103" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16357" PostId="10673" Score="0" Text="I also translated the version translated/written by the Brothers Grimm in their book &quot;Lieder der Alten Edda.&quot; &quot;https://www.amazon.com/Lay-Volundar-excerpt-Lieder-Brothers-ebook/dp/B07SNGQ4RC&quot; The Volundar text is the first on in the book. The Grimms handle the text slightly differently than other English language translators. Also, what is also interesting is that it shows how Wilhelm and Jacob had very different ideas about old texts and how to bring them to a modern audience. What they did was to both write their own texts in the way each saw fit." CreationDate="2023-05-11T23:55:04.097" UserId="5013" />
  <row Id="16337" PostId="10674" Score="0" Text="He's a titan. His powers aren't like fictional wizards in modern fantasy novels. He's a god!" CreationDate="2023-04-05T01:41:59.333" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16340" PostId="10674" Score="0" Text="My guess is that Nonnus is borrowing heavily from stories of Zeus' battle with Typhon. Some sources have Cronus as Typhon's father, so it stands to reason they shared powers." CreationDate="2023-04-09T10:28:23.643" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="16348" PostId="10684" Score="0" Text="Hello and welcome to the site! The Egregore was already suggested in a previous answer." CreationDate="2023-04-15T20:39:33.450" UserId="7095" />
  <row Id="16386" PostId="10694" Score="0" Text="I read that they are spirits not gods.&#xA;&#xA;The agathodaemon were a type of guardian entities that either guarded a home or a person. Plato mentioned that every person that's born is assigned their own unique guardian daemon that will follow them for the rest of their lives. It was believed that agathodaemons were created from a soul of a deceased person who didn't pass on into the underworld and stays on earth and transforms into an agathodaemon and they would be assigned a location or person to protect." CreationDate="2023-05-31T05:21:53.030" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16387" PostId="10694" Score="0" Text="@Orionixe Did you look at the dictionary link I sent you? Plato isn't representative of Greek mythology." CreationDate="2023-05-31T05:25:57.383" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16392" PostId="10694" Score="0" Text="Yes I did, Daimon has 2 meanings a very minor deity, or a spirit guide which was explained by https://www.hellenicgods.org/daimon-in-hellenismos" CreationDate="2023-06-06T21:34:28.263" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16393" PostId="10694" Score="0" Text="@Orionixe What's your question then?" CreationDate="2023-06-06T21:52:41.643" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16355" PostId="10697" Score="0" Text="Thank you for that very comprehensive answer." CreationDate="2023-05-07T15:34:13.760" UserId="4295" />
  <row Id="16356" PostId="10697" Score="0" Text="You're very welcome! Hope it helps. I specialised in Minoan studies many (many) moons ago. And my wife's thesis a couple decades back was on the bull motif, so we have a few book references I can provide if you ever want something really detailed." CreationDate="2023-05-08T02:05:10.763" UserId="10190" />
  <row Id="16370" PostId="10702" Score="0" Text="The ancient Mesopotamians would not have been able to see Neptune or Pluto, so this is clearly wrong." CreationDate="2023-05-25T04:06:04.143" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16367" PostId="10706" Score="0" Text="Any takers on this questions?" CreationDate="2023-05-23T15:35:50.587" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="16394" PostId="10706" Score="0" Text="It seems like this concept relates to asebeia, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asebeia" CreationDate="2023-06-07T13:45:46.193" UserId="742" />
  <row Id="16384" PostId="10707" Score="0" Text="Mesoamerican myths consider creation out of corn!" CreationDate="2023-05-29T10:31:24.397" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16372" PostId="10711" Score="0" Text="&quot;Ship Burials can be seen as a continuation of the earlier Chariot Burials&quot; If it's a continuation, what's in between the two practices on this continuum? Is there archaeological evidence for steps in-between?" CreationDate="2023-05-25T23:15:52.857" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16373" PostId="10711" Score="0" Text="@cmw - I'm not sure what &quot;steps in between&quot; means in this case. There was a longstanding (several thousand years) tradition in Indo-European cultures to inter important people in large earthen mounds with artifacts that denote their importance. In certain times and places chariots were key symbols of wealth and power, and in other (mostly later) times and places, ships were key symbols of wealth and power." CreationDate="2023-05-26T13:45:03.697" UserId="9925" />
  <row Id="16374" PostId="10711" Score="0" Text="I'm wondering if we can see a real continuity of this tradition. What vehicles did the cultures between Kurgan and Norse bury, because the link provided doesn't mention any. I'm wondering if this is a continuity at all, or just an independent development." CreationDate="2023-05-26T13:51:01.057" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16376" PostId="10711" Score="0" Text="@cmw - There's certainly continuity in mound burials - a quick wiki search turned up Rakni's Mound and the early portions of the Borre Mound cemetery as post-Bronze Age, pre-Viking Age mound burials in the Nordics. But... what kind of high-status vehicle do you expect to see used for elite burials in the Nordic Iron Age?" CreationDate="2023-05-26T15:14:35.290" UserId="9925" />
  <row Id="16377" PostId="10711" Score="0" Text="I'm not sure, that's why I was asking. It seemed strange that Viking ship burials would be a continuity of ancient chariot burials, rather than just two independent developments. I think the larger pattern would be burials with possessions, not anything particular to vehicles, but that also shows up in Egypt independently of the Kurgan burials." CreationDate="2023-05-26T15:26:58.183" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16369" PostId="10712" Score="0" Text="This might not be anything at all. I could be wrong, but I've never seen anything like it. Providing more context, including why you think it's not a structural part of the house, would be useful." CreationDate="2023-05-25T03:55:08.437" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16382" PostId="10712" Score="0" Text="It certainly could be nothing. I realize now that &quot;pipe space&quot; is a more accurate term than &quot;basement,&quot; so perhaps it had some use in that context? I found it lying on a duct amidst some other debris (broken lightbulbs, insulation, etc.), so if it had a structural use at one point, it was no longer being used like that." CreationDate="2023-05-27T17:01:39.930" UserId="9630" />
  <row Id="16383" PostId="10712" Score="0" Text="Yeah, you may want to ask on some forum or another that specializes in construction or renovation. My bets is that it's functional, not a symbol of anything." CreationDate="2023-05-27T18:29:21.187" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16378" PostId="10714" Score="0" Text="Why do you think the Egyptians placed their gods in groups?  Can you give examples of thesr groups?" CreationDate="2023-05-26T17:48:17.187" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16399" PostId="10721" Score="4" Text="Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it's hard to tell exactly what you're asking." CreationDate="2023-06-10T09:40:05.203" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16398" PostId="10723" Score="2" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2023-06-10T09:39:14.960" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16407" PostId="10724" Score="0" Text="What research have you done on this topic already? There is a vast body of literature to cover, but just getting your starting point would help narrow it down." CreationDate="2023-06-18T00:09:48.670" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16408" PostId="10724" Score="0" Text="I have read the introductions and notes to more than one translation and watched various lectures and explanatory videos on YouTube (Jay Pawlyk's are among the most extensive, although he does not have a University post) and some years ago read 'The World of Odysseus' by MI Finley. However, none, that I can recall, really address this question. The ancient philosopher Aristotle wrote that 'Everything suggests that there were other epics before Homer, but we know nothing of them.' Extant European literature begins with Homer, so his sources must be conjectured." CreationDate="2023-06-19T13:54:23.760" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16414" PostId="10729" Score="1" Text="One notes that in classical times, Apollo was not, in fact, a sun god.  That only came about in Hellenistic times." CreationDate="2023-06-26T01:16:35.587" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="16417" PostId="10730" Score="0" Text="Thanks for this answer. This is not a criticism, but it does not really answer my original question. However, you do explain why probably no one can answer it" CreationDate="2023-06-28T09:08:44.517" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16416" PostId="10731" Score="0" Text="You mean aside from deities themselves?" CreationDate="2023-06-28T08:36:35.013" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16420" PostId="10731" Score="0" Text="Would the Moirai or the Erinyes count?" CreationDate="2023-07-01T23:32:00.697" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16421" PostId="10731" Score="0" Text="Yes, aside from the prominent deities of pantheons. The Moirai and Erinyes seem more to me as worldly forces than what I'm looking for, but I appreciate the notion and will look into the similar realm of entity!" CreationDate="2023-07-03T20:17:58.610" UserId="6161" />
  <row Id="16415" PostId="10732" Score="0" Text="Do you mean to ask how to actually obtain immortality, or are you looking, as Mary gracious assumed, about mythological ideas?" CreationDate="2023-06-27T03:45:11.247" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16422" PostId="10735" Score="0" Text="An excellent answer! Thank you very much for your insight, much appreciated." CreationDate="2023-07-03T20:20:46.697" UserId="6161" />
  <row Id="16424" PostId="10738" Score="0" Text="Related: https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/9075/what-is-the-earliest-example-of-the-tiny-insect-winged-fairy-archetype" CreationDate="2023-07-06T14:42:37.627" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="16427" PostId="10739" Score="0" Text="According to Hesiod (double check), the Bronze Age ended with the deluge, which comes after Prometheus stealing the fire and Pandora's tale.  This Age has to come before the Age of Heroes, which is about 10-12th century BC if one tries to date the Trojan War. However how far in the past it is uncertain." CreationDate="2023-07-16T09:44:58.117" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16428" PostId="10739" Score="1" Text="@MardukTrimegistus --- You should amplify your comment slightly (relevant quotes, citations) and post it as an answer." CreationDate="2023-07-18T00:37:45.663" UserId="4152" />
  <row Id="16429" PostId="10739" Score="0" Text="@MardukTrimegistus The problem is that Hesiod has compiled different traditions without a standard chronology. The reason it doesn't make sense if you lay it all out is because Hesiod did not try to make sense of it." CreationDate="2023-07-18T02:59:49.103" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16430" PostId="10739" Score="0" Text="@cmw I agree that's why this is a comment and not an answer" CreationDate="2023-07-18T03:35:11.417" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16431" PostId="10740" Score="0" Text="Ah so calling them &quot;wee folk&quot; was referring to their power level compared to deities not their height? That makes sense as that can get confused." CreationDate="2023-07-19T02:07:34.180" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16432" PostId="10740" Score="0" Text="so diminutive fairies in early folklore were the results of shapeshifting, and not it being a constant feature?" CreationDate="2023-07-20T08:56:41.600" UserId="8896" />
  <row Id="16433" PostId="10745" Score="1" Text="Your title says 'provable myth or legend'.  If anything can be proved, it isn't a myth or legend, it is history." CreationDate="2023-07-21T17:48:58.583" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16447" PostId="10745" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka - I think OP is asking for the oldest myth that we can securely date. Meaning, we can easily date written myths to the oldest surviving example or reference. But are there oral traditions that we can date (with some level of confidence) to pre-written-history?" CreationDate="2023-08-24T16:52:44.470" UserId="9925" />
  <row Id="16435" PostId="10751" Score="0" Text="Yes that's it! Thank you so much I've been looking forever." CreationDate="2023-07-27T02:12:25.637" UserId="10430" />
  <row Id="16436" PostId="10751" Score="0" Text="@user1202605 Just to draw a distinction here, technically this wasn't presented as myth (i.e. conducted in the mythical past), but recent history, just over a century prior to the person who recorded it (Herodotus), with statues dating even closer in date. The event itself might be real (even if the details are exaggerated), which puts it closer to historical legends. The distinction may not be of interest to you, but I thought I should mention it." CreationDate="2023-07-27T14:48:06.370" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16437" PostId="10751" Score="1" Text="@user1202605 do not forget to accept the answer if it is helpful !" CreationDate="2023-07-27T15:32:31.583" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16438" PostId="10751" Score="0" Text="@cmw yes I saw they actually discovered the statues, thanks thats probably why I had trouble finding as a  myth." CreationDate="2023-07-28T15:12:31.377" UserId="10430" />
  <row Id="16439" PostId="10752" Score="1" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2023-07-29T18:08:28.363" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16473" PostId="10765" Score="0" Text="Dora and Erwin Panofsky wrote a book on the myth, *Pandora's Box* (New York: Pantheon, 1956), in which as I recall they traced the substitution of &quot;box&quot; for &quot;jar&quot; to a piece of mistranslation by the Renaissance humanist Erasmus.  Hesiod's term is *pithos,* meaning a clay jar of large size, like the one that Ali Baba hid inside." CreationDate="2023-09-09T17:36:15.813" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="16474" PostId="10768" Score="0" Text="This might be a wasted bounty. I searched and found nothing. I think the answer is &quot;no,&quot; as you've defined it." CreationDate="2023-09-10T04:24:31.660" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16444" PostId="10771" Score="1" Text="Maybe only after death? In classical Bhuddism there are six realms of rebirth, including the possibility of being reborn as a god. However the whole goal is to break the rebirth cycle and reach nirvana." CreationDate="2023-08-15T15:57:52.977" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16448" PostId="10777" Score="0" Text="Thanks for your informative answer." CreationDate="2023-08-25T15:25:06.340" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16449" PostId="10777" Score="0" Text="I suggest that the 'herald' / kerux of Homer's illiterate Dark Age World was likely to be a higher status person than a messenger who simply had to deliver a letter someone else had written in later Classical times like 2nd Century BC. In the absence of writing, a messenger necessarily had to memorise and convey the message orally. This would tend to require understanding it and therefore its background, and being able to explain it clearly and persuasively, calling for eloquence, tact and understanding social norms." CreationDate="2023-08-26T04:10:44.190" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16450" PostId="10777" Score="0" Text="To clarify my comment above, stories of the Trojan War (and therefore of Odysseus, if he really existed) derived from events in Mycenaean times, when there were scribes and a syllabic script. However, I am assuming that Homer, composing poems about them hundreds of years later, mostly imagined them according to what he  knew in his own time, when the art of writing had been lost, along with the Mycenaean palaces where it had been practiced, centuries before." CreationDate="2023-08-26T04:19:31.847" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16458" PostId="10777" Score="1" Text="Many messages continued to be delivered verbally after the resumption of writing. That's the point of the *servus currens* comic trope—the messenger was supposed to recite his message, but failed to do so for various humorous reasons." CreationDate="2023-08-27T19:40:36.650" UserId="8513" />
  <row Id="16478" PostId="10777" Score="0" Text="Thanks Gareth. I confess that while I have read some Ancient Greek plays in translation I have never read or seen any Roman drama. Clearly, I need to in case it gives me some insights into Roman society and attitudes." CreationDate="2023-09-13T12:20:10.583" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16479" PostId="10777" Score="0" Text="I actually emailed Professor Emily Wilson herself about this and a couple of other Odyssey queries, and although she does not know me she kindly replied, at least regarding the nymphs in Circe's Palace. She described them as slaves for 'consistency', as they are described with the same word, amphipolis, applied later in the poem to the women serving in Penelope's household, who are clearly slaves. However, Prof. Wilson concedes this can just be translated 'attendant', so not necessarily a slave. She did not address whether there are other examples of nymph slaves in Greek Myth." CreationDate="2023-09-13T22:15:34.613" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16460" PostId="10784" Score="1" Text="Does this answer your question? [Where was Hera called &quot;cow-faced&quot;?](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/532/where-was-hera-called-cow-faced)" CreationDate="2023-09-02T11:09:20.440" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16592" PostId="10786" Score="0" Text="Good story, bro. But no. 1. The tale is German, not English. 2. The name in German is _Rumpelstilzchen_. 3. This breaks down into _Rumpel_ — rumble, clatter — _stilz_ — stilts, legs — and the diminutive _chen_. IOW, it basically means clattering dwarf." CreationDate="2024-01-10T09:20:11.960" UserId="10918" />
  <row Id="16466" PostId="10787" Score="0" Text="Many thanks for your knowledgable and enlightening answer." CreationDate="2023-09-07T10:53:26.080" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16467" PostId="10787" Score="0" Text="'Undecked ships', although Book 12, lines 223 - 6 'I did not mention Scylla, since she meant inevitable death, and if they knew, the men would go drop the oars and go huddle down in the hold in fear' suggests there was a hold below the rowing deck that was large enough that the crew could have hidden there. I quoted Emily Wilson's translation, but the majority of others I have looked at mention a hold. Fagles just says 'stowed themselves away' but that may imply a hold as it suggests somewhere out of site in which to 'stow themselves'." CreationDate="2023-09-08T22:00:26.913" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16468" PostId="10787" Score="0" Text="Captured Cicones women from Ismaros, may, as you say, have escaped during the Greeks' panicked flight from the Cicones army. I assumed though there were probably Trojan women slaves on the ships, as the Iliad says that, like it or not, capturing and enslaving women was normal when the Greeks sacked an enemy town, as they intended to do on taking Troy. Nestor refers Odyssey Book 3 line 153 to loot and women put on their ships for the return. Your comment 'Nor... would they have been kept around as mouths to feed while the men were starving on Thrinacia' raises thoughts I would rather not think." CreationDate="2023-09-08T22:17:10.410" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16469" PostId="10787" Score="1" Text="@Timothy, ἐντός &quot;within&quot; (@12.225) could easily just mean amidships, away from the gunwales and presumably as low into the bilge as possible, below rowing-bench level." CreationDate="2023-09-08T22:45:20.233" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="16470" PostId="10787" Score="1" Text="That's what I'd probably do myself if I knew my captain was using me for bitch bait. (I construe the monster's name as simply a doubled-lambda version of σκύλα, literally female dog; and I have even seen the anglophone slur &quot;bitch!&quot; subtitled on Greek TV as σκύλα.)" CreationDate="2023-09-08T23:13:13.827" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="16480" PostId="10787" Score="0" Text="@ Brian Donovan - I find almost all translators of the Odyssey now and then add words not in the original, to bring out things that they personally assume, probably not always correctly, were implied." CreationDate="2023-09-13T22:24:50.753" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16481" PostId="10787" Score="0" Text="I have come across the argument from Professor Emily Wilson that if the Odyssey were a realist narrative we would be thinking about the captured women, but since they are not mentioned again we come across the philosophical problem that since this is fiction, do characters whom the narrative does not mention really exist? Presumably Homer does not mention them again  because that would distract from the primary narrative." CreationDate="2023-09-13T22:33:06.960" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16463" PostId="10788" Score="1" Text="Maybe a language SE would be more adequate?" CreationDate="2023-09-06T20:56:20.533" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16464" PostId="10788" Score="0" Text="@MardukTrimegistus - I thought so, but I think I've used them enough such that I know that no, we don't have an language SE that allows general etymology?" CreationDate="2023-09-06T21:14:11.243" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="16465" PostId="10788" Score="1" Text="You can ask over on [Latin](https://latin.stackexchange.com)." CreationDate="2023-09-06T23:53:33.057" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16477" PostId="10793" Score="1" Text="Ra also has some story related to his eye." CreationDate="2023-09-12T16:32:27.420" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16488" PostId="10798" Score="1" Text="The quick answer is retribution, see [Il. 18.336](https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hom.+Il.+18.336&amp;fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0134) and [Il. 23.24](https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hom.+Il.+23.24&amp;fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0134). The word ποινὴν is used in [Il. 21.26](https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hom.+Il.+21.26&amp;fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0134) (blood-price in the linked translation). AFAIK there's debate on what ποινὴν means and on whether there was a ritualistic element to it." CreationDate="2023-09-18T14:14:59.387" UserId="57" />
  <row Id="16491" PostId="10798" Score="0" Text="@ Yannis - Many thanks Yannis for a very convincing, well evidenced Comment, which should perhaps be posted as an Answer. Evidently killing the Trojan champion Hector and many other Trojans in the battle is not enough revenge for Achilles. Subject to your or anyone else's views, I assume this shows any or all of: Achilles being mad with rage at the death of Patroclus; wanting to show Patroclus' spirit in the afterlife 'See, I avenged you' by sacrificing Trojans at his funeral; that Ancient Greek revenge did not have to be 'proportionate', but made enemies pay many times over for what they did." CreationDate="2023-09-19T14:42:23.157" UserId="3530" />
  <row Id="16499" PostId="10805" Score="0" Text="Graves's citation is &quot;[Scholiast on Euripides's *Medea* 668](https://archive.org/details/scholiaineuripi00schwgoog/page/176/mode/2up); [Apollodorus: iii. 15. 6](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0021%3Atext%3DLibrary%3Abook%3D3%3Achapter%3D15%3Asection%3D6);  [Pausanias: i. 14. 6](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0160%3Abook%3D1%3Achapter%3D14).&quot; (Last link is to whole chapter, since §6 does not mention Aegeus but §7 does.) None of these seems to say aught about dying of grief." CreationDate="2023-10-02T14:23:41.480" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="16500" PostId="10805" Score="0" Text="@BrianDonovan You should make that an answer." CreationDate="2023-10-02T19:38:18.487" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16501" PostId="10805" Score="0" Text="The Apollodorus page I linked to above, in Frazer's Loeb edn., does indeed further cite Tzetzes' scholium on Lycophron 494 (available [here](https://play.google.com/store/books/details/Scholia_in_Lycophronem?id=a55bAAAAQAAJ&amp;gl=US), pp. 647-49). The die-of-grief thing isn't there either. [Tzetzes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tzetzes) can be a valuable source but hardly qualifies as ancient, anyhow." CreationDate="2023-10-02T21:50:20.147" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="16508" PostId="10829" Score="1" Text="This would be a better answer with some supporting information.  Which folk culture supports the idea? Are you suggesting humans become guardian angels?  Which religion regards angels as a caste? etc." CreationDate="2023-10-15T14:46:40.153" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16516" PostId="10833" Score="0" Text="Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it's hard to tell exactly what you're asking." CreationDate="2023-10-25T20:47:15.287" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16518" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="It's far from being an *ancient* phenomenon. Perhaps research [Joseph Smith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith) and [Brigham Young](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young)" CreationDate="2023-10-26T07:08:25.223" UserId="4192" />
  <row Id="16519" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="@PieterGeerkens thanks. I hope the question is still valid? I'm looking for a thesis where someone proposes conditions which enable updating of mythology" CreationDate="2023-10-26T07:16:46.450" UserDisplayName="More Anonymous" />
  <row Id="16520" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="You're asking too many questions at once. Focus on the main one." CreationDate="2023-10-26T07:56:37.480" UserDisplayName="Jos" />
  <row Id="16521" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="@Jos updated the question. Is it better?" CreationDate="2023-10-26T08:00:56.067" UserDisplayName="More Anonymous" />
  <row Id="16522" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="It is, but book recommendations are not something you're going to get here. Sorry." CreationDate="2023-10-26T09:15:16.530" UserDisplayName="Jos" />
  <row Id="16523" PostId="10836" Score="1" Text="FWIW, India has special issues with ancient history, owing to the fact that there's no known native writing (that we know how to read) until about 1500 BCE. Everything we know about Indian History much before then is either a recording of popular myth, or written by (sometimes hostile) outsiders." CreationDate="2023-10-26T16:27:54.243" UserId="229" />
  <row Id="16524" PostId="10836" Score="2" Text="&quot;There must be some times when a civilization can and can't update it's mythology.&quot; Why must that be? Why assume there must be a &quot;mechanics&quot; to this aspect of history where you've shown no evidence of a mechanical pattern?" CreationDate="2023-10-26T22:13:03.110" UserDisplayName="Brian Z" />
  <row Id="16525" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="@T.E.D. can I migrate this question?" CreationDate="2023-10-30T06:18:18.593" UserDisplayName="More Anonymous" />
  <row Id="16526" PostId="10836" Score="2" Text="This is an interesting question, but I don't think the premise is right. Mythmaking happens all the time, and is currently happening as we speak. I'd say much of the founding of the US, the Civil War, and the World Wars has entered into a popular mythology, of sorts. We're driven, as a species, to create a narrative and then find meaning in that narrative, which is really what mythology is about." CreationDate="2023-10-30T18:33:23.947" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16527" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="@cmw is religious mythology any different?" CreationDate="2023-10-30T18:50:20.457" UserId="10735" />
  <row Id="16528" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="It can depend. You have to remember that for cultures like India, there's really no difference between popular mythology and religious mythology. Hinduism wasn't a separate religion, per se, so much as it was a shared set of beliefs about the past. Same with most traditional &quot;religions.&quot;" CreationDate="2023-10-30T18:58:58.760" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16529" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="I'm not sure of any sources on &quot;updating&quot; mythology just yet, but I can comb through some things and get back to you on that. Ping me again if I take too long." CreationDate="2023-10-30T19:07:56.697" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16530" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="@cmw sure thing! Thanks :)" CreationDate="2023-10-30T19:10:57.357" UserId="10735" />
  <row Id="16531" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="@MoreAnonymous For Judaism and Christianity the &quot;updating&quot; (i.e. the texts considered sacred, or the canon) happened when there was a significant *and* real event which requires an updating of the theology of that religion (example: Babylonian exile, Persian &quot;reprieve&quot; allowing the 2nd Temple to be built, the coming, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah).  About &quot;can&quot; or &quot;cannot&quot;, I think it's more a function of the authority of the &quot;myth keeper&quot; (i.e. the religious authority).  But I don't have a good reading material on it, hence this comment instead of an answer." CreationDate="2023-11-01T18:11:22.747" UserId="5909" />
  <row Id="16532" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="@cmw any progress? (Hey)" CreationDate="2023-11-14T12:53:07.333" UserId="10735" />
  <row Id="16533" PostId="10836" Score="0" Text="Thanks for the ping. We've come a long way, but incidentally, ritual theory is back as a compelling argument for the explanation of myths. You might want to start [here](https://books.google.com/books?id=M_MNFaJ-UacC&amp;pg=PA58&amp;dq=changing+myths+to+suit+politics&amp;hl=en&amp;newbks=1&amp;newbks_redir=0#v=onepage&amp;q=changing%20myths%20to%20suit%20politics&amp;f=false). Sorry, work's been hectic, but I can add to this again shortly." CreationDate="2023-11-15T20:54:27.763" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16535" PostId="10840" Score="0" Text="&quot;Dorian conquest&quot; is not considered valid history anymore." CreationDate="2023-11-15T23:59:17.183" UserId="1317" />
  <row Id="16536" PostId="10840" Score="0" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2023-11-16T22:00:59.353" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16539" PostId="10841" Score="1" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2023-11-16T22:20:40.237" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16540" PostId="10842" Score="0" Text="As it’s currently written, your answer is unclear. Please [edit] to add additional details that will help others understand how this addresses the question asked. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2023-11-16T22:22:46.450" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16632" PostId="10845" Score="0" Text="What are some examples of &quot;Celtic-sounding words [that] are very sing-song&quot;? This is not a typical observation." CreationDate="2024-03-07T14:31:43.963" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16541" PostId="10846" Score="0" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2023-11-18T12:07:07.890" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16545" PostId="10848" Score="1" Text="GIGO. I more than half suspect that our questioner meant to ask not about Shamash (the sun god) but rather about Shamhat (the sacred prostitute), and your AI bot failed to consider that possibility. It might be a bit late to confirm that with OP. But these AI-generated answers with their lists of three strike me as formulaic BS, like many a five-paragraph theme submitted for college credit." CreationDate="2023-11-24T14:19:33.600" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="16546" PostId="10848" Score="1" Text="Indeed, all &quot;writing&quot; by generative AI would appear to meet Harry Frankfurt's authoritative definition of BS, in that the supposed &quot;intelligence&quot; is *incapable* of caring whether the output be true or false." CreationDate="2023-11-25T14:30:48.687" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="16547" PostId="10848" Score="1" Text="The AI would appear to have swallowed uncritically the OP's counter-textual premise that Shamash *does* help the trapper. Shamhat does; Shamash does not." CreationDate="2023-11-25T14:50:01.787" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="16544" PostId="10853" Score="0" Text="Obviously, Friday is easy to explain by appeal to the *Gospel*; however, I genuinely don't know where Wednesday came from." CreationDate="2023-11-23T02:16:03.293" UserId="9534" />
  <row Id="16552" PostId="10856" Score="0" Text="Genesis has 3 such stories, with this being the clearest example. But the expulsion from Eden and the Tower of Babel share thematically with the flood myth." CreationDate="2023-11-30T20:57:26.637" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16551" PostId="10861" Score="0" Text="Cf. [Hermaphroditus and Salmacis](https://mythology.stackexchange.com/a/1281/398)." CreationDate="2023-11-30T20:52:09.460" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16553" PostId="10862" Score="2" Text="The ancient belief was that Atlas held up the *sky*.  The earth is a modern distortion" CreationDate="2023-12-02T00:10:03.997" UserId="6920" />
  <row Id="16557" PostId="10863" Score="0" Text="So the book's contents were written from right to left as well? I'm asking since you're only implying it." CreationDate="2023-12-15T16:29:43.397" UserId="5803" />
  <row Id="16563" PostId="10863" Score="0" Text="I would assume so, but I don't know for sure. What's written in the original post really is all the information we have. Admittedly, text written from left to right, but the pages being ordered from right to left seems too strange to be true (unless it was translated from such a language, e. g. manga maintaining the page ordering even in translation). On the other hand, if the book was written from right to left, then that could at least somewhat narrow down the cultures in which it could have emerged. I'm sorry that I can't provide more info than this, and thank you for your interest." CreationDate="2023-12-19T13:59:04.123" UserId="10839" />
  <row Id="16564" PostId="10863" Score="0" Text="&quot;*text written from left to right, but the pages being ordered from right to left seems too strange to be true*&quot; I don't think it's *too* strange. This can be symbolic in many ways. Back when I was in school, I did write left-to-right but used notebooks right-to-left. So I could fit two subjects in one notebook, e.g., geography (start from left) and history (staring from right). But that was just a way to keep less notebooks. For a mystic book the right-to-left arrangement can make sense as inverted expectations or other folkloric reasoning." CreationDate="2023-12-19T14:07:45.123" UserId="6088" />
  <row Id="16556" PostId="10873" Score="0" Text="What I don't count is that feet are any part of an arm. Otherwise I'd be fine with Obsidian." CreationDate="2023-12-15T02:59:26.477" UserId="188" />
  <row Id="16561" PostId="10877" Score="0" Text="Is there any chance that &quot;so Heracles with Theseus and others came to the port of Themiskyra&quot; could be read in Greek as implying Admete was one of the &quot;others&quot;?&#xA;&#xA;Since Smith also cites Tzetzes on Lycophron 1327 as the source for this detail, I'm thinking if it isn't there, there is no such version. If so, how could such a misinterpretation make it's way into the literature?" CreationDate="2023-12-18T16:06:29.403" UserId="8708" />
  <row Id="16562" PostId="10877" Score="2" Text="That's what I'm not sure yet. The Greek doesn't seem to indicate Admete was part of the crew. The ending, where it says that Heracles carried off the girdle for Eurystheus and his daughter, almost seems to suggest the opposite. It's possible this version existed somewhere, but if Smith had an error in citations, later scholars who didn't investigate fully just replicated his error." CreationDate="2023-12-18T18:50:17.087" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16565" PostId="10878" Score="0" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2023-12-19T22:09:40.807" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16572" PostId="10885" Score="2" Text="Gilgamesh encountered the Vikings?  Interesting!  Is this your theory?" CreationDate="2023-12-26T10:15:09.313" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16573" PostId="10885" Score="0" Text="As I recall, the many punting poles G. has to prepare are long, for deep water. Presumably, each is good for only one push, since recovering a punting pole for a new stroke entails contact with the water that clings to it, and these are the waters of death. One theory I came up with for the stone things is that they are on-board eyelets through which a shore-to-shore rope passes--that Urshanabi's was normally and hitherto  a rope ferry." CreationDate="2023-12-28T14:13:02.247" UserId="3989" />
  <row Id="16574" PostId="10886" Score="0" Text="Only a small minority of gods are called by Greek names. Mostly the Greek ones." CreationDate="2023-12-28T21:58:41.243" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16576" PostId="10886" Score="0" Text="When talking about Greek gods, why would they not use their Greek names? Also, Heracles (or Herakles) and Eros is also pretty common. I don't think the premise is correct." CreationDate="2023-12-31T21:47:51.593" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16579" PostId="10886" Score="0" Text="Ulysses is also probably as popular as Odysseus." CreationDate="2024-01-03T14:11:49.200" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16586" PostId="10893" Score="1" Text="I do not find that convincing. *Rumplestiltskin* substantially predates *The Merchant of Venice*, so any inspiration there would have to go the other way around. The motif of a physically strange supernatural helper with a strange name that likes to eat people is hardly limited to Europe: 大工と鬼六 has the same themes, and I doubt anyone thinks that the oni of that tale is meant to represent Jews." CreationDate="2024-01-09T18:42:24.103" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="16587" PostId="10893" Score="0" Text="@Obie2.0: Of course I'm not implying _Rumpelstiltskin_ is based on _Merchant of Venice_; if anything, works of literature are based on folk tales, not the other way around. And of course in different parts of the world, the roles played by Jews in Europe were played by other peoples. But this is a German folk tale, so the strange foreigner who advances money now to demand a &quot;pound of flesh&quot; later is a Jew, not an _oni_." CreationDate="2024-01-10T09:00:42.157" UserId="10918" />
  <row Id="16588" PostId="10893" Score="1" Text="I am not convinced. If we accept your assertion that Rumplestiltskin must represent a real-life foreigner or outsider (dubious, unless you can suggest which group the oni in the similsr folktale should represent?), then he could represent a Romani person, a Turkish person, or any of the many other peoples demonized in Germany—or indeed a Jew. But you merely *assert* that he must be a Jew, which isn't strong evidence." CreationDate="2024-01-10T09:04:30.260" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="16590" PostId="10893" Score="0" Text="In a comment on another answer, I noted that the basic structure of the folktale seems to be older than the widespread presence of Jews in Europe, which the existence of analogous folktales in other places bolsters. Since that would place any anti-Semitism as a later innovation, I am looking for a bit more than arguments based on the gross features of the story." CreationDate="2024-01-10T09:07:55.857" UserId="2687" />
  <row Id="16593" PostId="10893" Score="0" Text="Why should _Rumpelstiltskin_ &quot;represent a real-life foreigner&quot;? That's a very narrow reading of folktales. The characters in myths and folktales represent archetypes, not real people, and there is very little doubt _Rumpelstiltskin_ matches the antisemitic archetype for Jews: foreign, strange, miraculous with money, but deceitful and manipulative through debt, through which scheming to usurp aristocratic power, and eerily keen on taking other people's children." CreationDate="2024-01-10T09:35:26.527" UserId="10918" />
  <row Id="16595" PostId="10893" Score="0" Text="Or were the archetypes based on Rumpelstiltskin? Also, owing debt to a powerful otherworldly entity is super common. This answer just doesn't have much else besides assertion going for it. Did you even bother to read the other answers, especially the top answer that goes into the history of the folktale?" CreationDate="2024-01-13T03:50:28.020" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16598" PostId="10895" Score="2" Text="Could you edit your response to make it more clear where the review starts and ends. Also is the last reference your book. And finally, if I understand correctly, you are saying that there was no Christianization of the myths whatsoever?" CreationDate="2024-01-22T18:54:12.660" UserId="7106" />
  <row Id="16600" PostId="10897" Score="0" Text="Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it's hard to tell exactly what you're asking." CreationDate="2024-01-25T13:50:11.197" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16601" PostId="10897" Score="1" Text="This seems as if it might work on our sister site [hinduism.se]. Be sure to take their tour and read up in their help centre *before* posting there, perhaps citing the verse you might be referring to. That being stated, your post may work here to if you add clarity about the nature and circumstances of Vishnu's act to Vrinda, and clarify how it might be a violation (presumably to Tulasi) and what ancient tradition you might be referring to." CreationDate="2024-01-25T14:03:36.377" UserId="5483" />
  <row Id="16602" PostId="10898" Score="0" Text="As it’s currently written, your answer is unclear. Please [edit] to add additional details that will help others understand how this addresses the question asked. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2024-01-26T14:24:24.517" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16603" PostId="10899" Score="1" Text="You claim 'chastity' is not a good translation of 'pativrata' (perhaps a more accurate one would be 'faithfulness to the husband'), but you never provide one yourself. What does it mean then? Also, what is your evidence for claiming that &quot;everything she was experiencing that time was just illusion&quot;? The text doesn't say anything like that. Finally, 'surata' is translated to 'sexual intercourse' in many other Sanskrit texts, in which there is no ambiguity to what it means." CreationDate="2024-01-26T15:11:33.830" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="16607" PostId="10903" Score="0" Text="Where have you been hearing this chatter? That might help give potential answers a lead." CreationDate="2024-02-04T14:40:12.910" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16608" PostId="10903" Score="0" Text="Which parts of Europe would this be for?" CreationDate="2024-02-04T15:01:37.027" UserId="6088" />
  <row Id="16609" PostId="10903" Score="0" Text="@VLAZ I’m not sure but one of the purport ingredients is native to coastal areas around Europe." CreationDate="2024-02-04T20:11:06.033" UserId="10971" />
  <row Id="16610" PostId="10903" Score="0" Text="@cmw it’s a theme that has come up in some Internet memes in the last few days.  While it’s possible that the idea was plucked out of thin air I was discussing with some other people of European descent whether this was inspired by fact or folklore.  The friends I was talking to believed that there likely was some precedent but couldn’t give a specific example." CreationDate="2024-02-04T20:14:27.303" UserId="10971" />
  <row Id="16611" PostId="10904" Score="0" Text="Thanks, do you recall anything about the book, English or another language?" CreationDate="2024-02-05T03:33:33.637" UserId="10971" />
  <row Id="16612" PostId="10905" Score="1" Text="Welcome to Mythology&amp;Folklore! Alas! Unfortunately, the family tree of Diomedes is precisely among the typical sorts that you would find in Greek myth -- similar to Odysseus's, like you've pointed out -- wherein if you travel far enough up the line, you'll undoubtedly arrive at (numerous!) divine ancestors. To name but a few, among Diomedes' ancestors would have been the Olympians Zeus, Poseidon, Ares and Hera, as well as the Titans Prometheus, Atlas, Oceanus and Tethys (some of these appearing on both sides of his family, as is indeed the case with so many other Heroes)." CreationDate="2024-02-12T22:03:06.223" UserId="2682" />
  <row Id="16613" PostId="10911" Score="0" Text="Thank you for providing not only an extensive reference, but a marvelous resource for future research." CreationDate="2024-02-27T17:00:01.957" UserId="11001" />
  <row Id="16618" PostId="10912" Score="1" Text="This answer could use some tightening. There's a lot that is right here, but I think the whole section on Nazi co-option is irrelevant to the question at hand. Also, Manhattan?" CreationDate="2024-03-03T18:44:05.387" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16631" PostId="10912" Score="0" Text="It's a stretch to say that &quot;there's a lot that is right here&quot;. Most of it is made up at worst and extremely speculative at best. In any case, very little is relevant to the question." CreationDate="2024-03-06T08:13:59.023" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="16630" PostId="10929" Score="1" Text="English *ettin* does not come from Old Norse *jǫtunn*. They both come from Proto-Germanic *etunaz*. Also, there is no mention of the Ringlefinch in Norse mythology. It appears only in the Trollhunter movie from 2010, where it doesn't even have two heads..." CreationDate="2024-03-05T15:27:20.627" UserId="7315" />
  <row Id="16635" PostId="10931" Score="2" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2024-03-10T11:00:22.323" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16636" PostId="10932" Score="0" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2024-03-12T08:46:33.470" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16648" PostId="10939" Score="0" Text="In *Dracula* Bram Stoker uses &quot;lair&quot; several times to refer to the Count's hiding places." CreationDate="2024-03-25T16:16:05.277" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16649" PostId="10939" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka That would certainly solidify its usage. The link I posted was just a few years older. I haven't checked the OED yet to see if there were earlier usages." CreationDate="2024-03-25T16:36:12.583" UserId="398" />
  <row Id="16653" PostId="10941" Score="0" Text="Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it's hard to tell exactly what you're asking." CreationDate="2024-03-31T10:02:33.077" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16652" PostId="10942" Score="0" Text="Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers [in the help center](/help/how-to-answer)." CreationDate="2024-03-31T10:00:13.550" UserId="-1" />
  <row Id="16651" PostId="10943" Score="1" Text="I don't see how a recent discovery explains how Titans became revered as large." CreationDate="2024-03-31T09:59:39.653" UserId="53" />
  <row Id="16654" PostId="10943" Score="0" Text="@Chenmunka &quot;Discovery&quot; at that." CreationDate="2024-03-31T15:36:40.663" UserId="398" />
</comments>